I'm glad to see that you're providing honest reviews regarding the many benefits of using low frequency, transformer based inverter charger technology compared to the cheap, light duty, short lived, low surge capacity, high frequency, transformerless inverters that everyone else seems to be pushing.
Your welcome. There is a place for everything. I value surge capacity and longevity. Those transformerless inverters are good if you value speed of install.
I'm a huge fan I bought Schneider I have 1 and a large PDP 8500 watts in solar and 2 -80/600 charge controllers grid tied with a 21.5 KW lithium ion phosphate battery. I thought I could run 2 36,000 btu ACs but each takes almost 5kw till the home is cooled and they go down to 2kw but this never happens because they trip and burn out 150amp fuse in the battery. If it is connected to the grid wouldn't the grid come on and help with the load? I am thinking of adding an additional inverter to help with the load or have another person check that everything is connected correctly? I'm at my wits end my wife keeps saying I told you so😂😂😂
Yet another excellent video! To avoid a multi-unit event, you can energize the DC breakers one at a time and put the units in Standby before programming.
Would love to see the video showing them both performing in sync. Have the same setup and almost ready to commission. It has been a learning experience to say the least.
Ditto! Also show imbalanced loads. All other tubers who test other inverters won't show that test. I have the same ones as you, but I have't setup the 2nd one yet. I bought the kit w/o knowing my Conext GW would allow me to tune the inverters.
Love the videos, thanks. I am getting all the parts for my new house and off grid solar system. Because of your videos I purchased a pallet of those batteries to diy you featured a while back.. I purchased ~29k watts of panels (2 pallets of 400 watt bi facials) and I was going to get 2 of these schneider inverters but since the EG4 6000XP's came out and seem to have great performance I went ahead and purchased 3 of those instead... they are sooo much cheaper than these schneider inverters and seem to offer equal performance at a fraction of the cost.
12:52 The 32840 number is the direct 16 bits value out of 65536 range for the digital section that regulate the voltage I guess... It mean the total voltage span is divided in 65536 steps.
I've installed three parallel 6.5kva inverters to my new Off-grid place in the UK. To minimise idle power consumption I normally run one or two of them at one time. Having three gives me redundancy which is very important when you are relying on your own supply
It would be awesome if you could do a video on load shedding with the XW, Like, turning on a circuit to a hot water tank if your SOC is above 95%. It would have been nice if the XW had the "smart load" like the sol-ark on the XW Grid input for off grid people like us.
Schneider makes nice equipment for sure. Expensive as all get out though. For me, only needing occasional use during a power failure, I've opted for something from the orient. I recently sold my Sigineer and am probably going to go with a hybrid Sungold Power inverter. I believe in low frequency for sure but cannot afford to invest much more than the price of one of these. I believe that last time I checked Schneider was about double, thereabouts. I plan on tying it into the generator circuit and use the manual transfer breaker and lockout I already own. For occasional use this should suffice even though I'll need to flip the breakers and turn the battery and inverter on. If I had a need for off grid 100%, I'd probably opt for similar to your's.
These are pretty impressive low wattage draw.. My Magnum 4400VA is about draining that same value at 29W but it is half the size. But David these Iddle power are not totally lost !!! thesea re mainly heat loss which during winter is in fact nearly fully recovered !!! so the real loss is nearly ZERO 9 maybe 5W of electronagnetic field and mecanical 120Hz vibration...
@@DavidPozEnergyDoes this mean that you have to use twice the amount of energy to cool down the heat that it creates plus the additional idle energy that it burns through during the summer months?
I think that it is a shame that you didn’t make a video putting these inverters together on a step by step basis so that DIYers could have been more easily informed about how to do this incredible project. What I find amazing is that my first system in 48V used a Schneider Conext 6048, as I recall. Due to freezing temperatures freezing my lithium batteries out of a Tesla and them starting fire to my solar shed and barn the fire burned down was the driving force behind my acquiring the LTO batteries and Sol-Ark 12K and the two step up 5K Watt generators.
@@fisherus I wouldn't say "shame" - BUT - I would be greatly interested in seeing the build!! My wife and I are attempting the same type of system with Absolyte GX 2,000 Amp hour battery banks for storage... so seeing solar controllers would have been fantastic.
David - I will look into the MPPT solar charge controller(s) you suggested - thank you for the assistance!! If you have a separate webpage I would love to join to learn more. I appreciate the help and insight!
Might consider a hoist on your garage ceiling. It's easy to build/install one that can handle 200# and is just the thing to lift those inverters up so you can put them on the wall. Getting help is great, but safest is a hoist that carries the weight. Of course, if you want to go crazy and put in a 1 ton hoist I'll be happy to see it!
NICE, I Just Finished A Full 20-Acre Ranch Off Grid Job w/ 3-15kw SolArks + 4- x6 Racks Of EG4s = 122.8kw Of Batteries... They Were 135lbs Each, Butt Easy To Hang On The Wall Brackets & VERY MUCH Easier To Program Them Those Schneider's, Plus It Only Took One Day To Complete w/A Helper For Assembling Components... 😜🤣😁😎 PS Total Cost Was Abouts $65k + Install Labors
@@DavidPozEnergy I was thinking something along the lines of what ProjectFarm does. You intensely analyze and review a lot of products, if you had an annual overview and gave your opinion of which components you personally would purchase again. I don't think it has to be all encompassing, just an annual "these are my favorites".
$12,000 for 2 of the low frequency Schneider's vs $3,000 for a pair of the high frequency 6000XP's. I've been wrestling with this decision for several months now. I'm sure either system will run my well pump and mini-split air conditioners but am still leaning toward the XW PRO's. There is a lot to be said for big iron transformers when it comes to surge capability and their better handling of reactive loads.
It comes down to your loads. I have a friend with an off grid property, Poet. Poet has a well about 100 feet deep, so that's considered shallow compared to people out west. That well pump can run on a Growatt 5000, so it would also run on a EG4 6000XP. However, if you truly wanted to re-create the total power of the two Schneiders, you probably need 4 of the EG4 6000XP inverters.
If you do NAZ solar electric the price is considerably cheaper - I got everything on the wall in the video minus the MPPT for a little over $5k - 2 inverters, PDP, connection kit, breakers, insight home and I got a BCS since I am on-grid - the sales engineer was knowledgable and helped make sure I didn't miss anything
Gosto muito do seus vídeos, eu ostaria de saber se esses inversores sao de baixa frequência, pois vi no início do vídeo mostrando um transformador toroidal. Obrigado 🤜🏽🤛🏽
Do you think they are vastly superior to SMA Sunny islands? As they have crazy surge power as well. Also against the victron quattro with their autoformer.
I wouldn't say "vastly superior". I like the Schneider a little more than SMA. Both are excellent build quality, but Schneider built this specifically for the off grid home. The programming is easier on Schneider than SMA. Schneider is set up for DC coupling out of the box and SMA wants AC coupling. There's a few other little things. If you have to pay retail pricing for both, Schneider is the clear winner. If you get a huge discount on the SMA, it might be worth the extra hassle. I'd love to test a Victron quattro, but I don't have the money to buy one just for testing it.
Yes I'd like to see you load test the two inverter because I'm thinking to do the same because I have a lot of load two air conditioners well pump sump pump instantaneous hot water heater. 75 amps.2 refrigerators 2 freezers
David - Deanna and I are changing up our approach to the off grid power system that we will install at the property. We were able to retrieve two Absolyte GX (48volt) battery banks from a telecom company. We are looking into two (used) XW PRO 6848 due to the amount of power necessary to charge the Absolyte batteries. I don't think that one unit will have enough power to charge a battery bank. Do you have a page on how you installed your units, combiner boxes and inverters? I greatly appreciate your videos but sometimes layouts and photos help me to better comprehend how best to construct something. Thank you for all that you do to help those of us who are still learning! Dean Abney sent me over to you!
The XW PRO inverters can charge a battery from an AC source. This could be the grid and/or generator. Is this what you are asking about, or are you asking about charging a battery with solar? If you want to charge your battery with solar, then you need a separate MPPT solar charge controller.
@@DavidPozEnergy Yes - I need to apply the most amps possible to the Absolyte Battery Bank that I am able with solar. I only want to use the generator as minimally as is possible. Having two of these battery banks made me wonder if it is possible to apply enough power to the banks with solar alone. It would take the XW PRO Inverters less time to charge running a 20KW generator but I prefer to keep the batteries full with as much solar as is possible. How large of an MPPT Controller (100 Amps or more) should I be looking into. A lot of questions in regard to charging these batteries.
No David no more videos, it’s time for a movie. lol please 😂😂😂😂. We really love watching your videos. On that note please you and your family have a great and blessed new year. 🇯🇲🇯🇲🇯🇲🇯🇲🇯🇲
I would prefer those type of transformers, they are quality inverters, but money forced me in a different direction..I switched my old inverter out for the EG4 6000 XP, which I'm very happy with..I built a small house in the forest, that is extremely efficient, so I don't really need anything like that anyhow..And I have backups for everything..But, if my kids were not grown, I might have went in that direction..I do think that going with solar is half of the answer, the other half is using far less energy..I don't think I've ever pulled more than 100 amps..Very nice..
David - thanks for the video's. These Schneider low frequency inverters are great - but expensive. I wish I could run my house on one inverter (new house with 5 ton ac) but that is probably only wishful thinking. Stories out there about software glitches and poor support may be old news? Tough to beat two 6000XPs where you could throw them away every 5 years and still be money ahead. Or do you think one Schneider could do what two 6000xp could do?
Big Money, I understand this is content for your channel so cost justification doesn't enter the formula. Schneider certainly has brand recognition and follows all electrical code requirements so for industrial application could approach cost justification, but certainly not for the average homeowner.
EG4's 6000XP holds up against the schneiders, you should test one out. Also comes with split phase 120/240 and you can run multiple in parallel. Also comes with a 480V MPPT Controller built in.
@DavidPozEnergy sure, some of the features you were praising the Schneider for were having split phase 120/240, large surge capacity, ability to parallel multiple inverters, communication between the inverters. You said there's no other inverter you tested that "does a better job on surges and load imbalance". The 6000XP does all of that + it comes with all the breakers, + it comes with a MPPT Charge Controller for 8KW Solar AND it's more than half the cost. Would love to see you test it out on the channel. The only place the 6000XP is shy of the Schneider is it's 6KW instead of 6.8KW
Thank you for clarifying. I think the EG4 6000XP is a fantastic value. Certainly for a lot of people working with tight budgets, the EG4 is going to be a better fit. I really do hope to run some good testing on it. I predict that the surge capacity and load imbalance will not be the same between the two. Even if we adjust results as a ratio of rated power to surge power (in order to account for the 0.8kW difference). If Signature Solar wants to send me one of those inverters I'll test the heck out of it.
@@hummmingbear the Schneider can support near the full 6.8kw load on a single leg, while the EG4 6000XP cannot do more than 3000 watts per leg. Hence a good job on a load imbalance
Great vid David,the efficiency and ease of conecting master and slave to expand load capability are great ....,I've never seen the schneider inverters here in south africa i see your models are xw pro 6848 ,would you know the model for single phase 230v ac 50hz hybrid inverters of schneider ....i dont see it on their website ...we dont use split phase in south africa but 230v 50hz ...wondered if you had that info on hand?
It's the same model. You can change the setting in the Insight Home to 230V, 50htz. Although, if you buy it from a local supplier it might be pre configured?
I would like to see you attach a grid tie inverter to the schneiders (on your AC side) to provide more AC input to your house loads, by using the schneiders to generate the AC "grid" signal to cause the grid tie inverters to produce power, so we can see the schneider match the solar inverter output to your load while doing all the things the schneiders do. the XWPRO's will adjust the grid frequency a few hertz to throttle a grid tie inverter if it is making more power than you house needs, all while charging your batteries. How many kW of solar panels do you have? thank you
I've experimented with AC coupling. Yes, the Schneider's work fine with it, and frequency shift as they are made to. However, My grid-tie inverter doesn't handle surges well in comparison to the Schneider's. So, on some heavy surge loads, it doesn't respond as well. It's better to use MPPT charge controllers.
If you have a single positive conductor, and a single negative conductor, then they don't have to be the same length. In my setup, I have a pair (2) positive conductors, and a pair (2) negative conductors. The positives must be the same length to each other, and the negatives must be the same length to each other, but the positive and negative still don't have to be the same. Note, we are aiming for the same resistance, but the short-hand way of getting there is to make them the same length.
Your system is starting to approach what my loads require. This is the way to go for big surge. Your point on the Luxpower 18k (or Sol-Ark 15k) are going to be easier is true, but also (as you stated) the surge isn't going to be close compared to the Schneiders. My big question for you is how are you generating all that power you can use now??? That one 6k MPPT doesn't seem like its going to make you enough. My system needs 3 x 6k MPPTs (which also brings you up to the Luxpower/Sol-Ark capacities). At $1300 per MPPT and $3100 per inverter, $1100 for a PDP , Insights home, troughs, expansion packs.... man that is getting up there in price. But no doubt a rock solid system.
Do the math: 1500 kwh/mo = 1,500,000 whr, divide by 30 days - 50,000 whr per day, divide by 24 hrs = 2083 watt per hr. Figure enough solar to produce that using the specific average number of hours of usable sun per day in your location (mine is 6). Then install enough panel, battery and inverter. One 6K inverter should do. What are you doing with 18,000w charge controllers? I've found that finding ways to save current is less expensive than just powering what you already have. Check your math.
Great review setup mate, we just upgraded our system although it was a 10k multi Victron inverter/ charger , the kits they supplied you looks tha biz, happy new year from downunder 🇦🇺🤙
Hello @DavidPoz I have some recently bought lifepo4 cells. Out of ignorance, I connected them down in series, while waiting for my daly BMS to arrive my home country. Upon BMS arrival, I went checking the voltage of the batteries, only for me to find each and all, reading negative (-26.40V ) on the multimeter as against 26.40V as at the very day they were connected after top balancing. Please, is there anything I can do to correct this?
Thank you for the video, I purchased a used Schneider conext xw 7048 and looking for how to disable battery charging , where can I find a conext scp unit ?
question, I'm off grid with a small solar system and invertor. Do I bond my service panel or the inverter? My main panel is grounded to a earth ground. Is the inverter my source or is the inverter? Confused.........................
Using solar PV, to charge a battery, to go to electric resistance heating isn't a very cost-affective route. However, using mini-splits for heating (running on electric) can be.
Greetings from sunny Portugal. Could the voltage difference be related to hardware? ie the cables used in each inverter were not identical spec so had slightly different resistance. I have two Victron MP2 5KVA inverters in parallel and it states very clearly in the manual all cables/breakers both DC from the bus bar & AC to distribution box must be identical spec. Happy New Year David to you and your family.
I asked Schneider about that. They said it probably has to do with the 1.5 years between manufacturing dates. Remember, usually with Victron each inverter is 120V only. So getting the sync correct is probably a different type of computer thing.
I have a question for ya dave. you said these have a built in charger. i was wondering if it functions like a transfer switch when the battery is full directing its grid power to the load? i dont have any panels but just need a UPS back up for my whole home. this inverter seems to have it all. im hoping it has a feature like that.
Thanks for another good vid. Do you know the overall idle (efficiency of DC -> AC) for the Schneider's? I'm off-grid and run 2 x 12,000w AIMS that each have 36,000w surge. Each one goes to it's own distribution box / set of circuits. This works because I have good circuit info and manually distributed the load so that neither inverter is overloaded even with everything on at the same time. It's all manual / simple BUT..... there's high idle (200w / inverter) and in low % inverter load (
In idle, each inverter is 34W. I did a few point readings and averaged 96% efficient for the inverter. However, I really need to sit down and do several more data points and plot the efficiency curve to give a better answer.
Yes. They are both top of the line, but I prefer the Schneider slightly. #1 reason, is the programming. The Schneider worked right out of the box making 120/240V without me needing to do anything. The SMA required programming to turn on. Also, the SMA is factory set for flooded lead acid batteries. Since I'm using lithium, the SMAs don't work without closed-loop communication. #2, the wiring. Schneider has the PDP and wire-ways so that the whole setup is UL Listed, and easy to pass inspection. #3, SMA is 120V only, so you need a pair for 120/240V. But, hey, they are both great. If you had an option for a really good price on a pair of SMA it can still be a good bargain. But, be prepared for more difficulties programming.
@@DavidPozEnergy thanks for replying. Those are very valid points. I bought sunny islands after watching your vids and seeing how well they can handle loads but you are right- you need them in pairs and they need expensive bms for lithium batteries. If and when these give out though, I more than likely will go with victron inverters. their ESS system and venus OS are very exciting
How about testing a Yiyen 12KW split phase inverter with 36000 watt surge capacity. It only takes 5 wires and no software to deal with. Once it's hanging on the wall you can literally have it running in thirty minutes. Mine has been running seven years zero problems. And only $3500 .
Hi Terry. For sure, you have a great setup. I'm a bit more worried about total efficiency. I live in MA, with long stretches of cloudy weather, and my backyard is very limited to the solar window. I don't have any more space for more solar panels. I think (from your photos) you have a farm with space available for more panels, right? So you can add a few more panels to overcome the efficiency loss?
@DavidPozEnergy Yes I have unlimited space for panels. Every time I can put up a panel that I can park on under it Then I get shade and I get a panel. I'm not as concerned with with the efficiency. I'm concerned that my system doesn't bother me when i'm doing my normal work on tractors. And I hate software problems with a passion.
For example, my Growatt inverters I used for a couple years... Each inverter had one MPPT controller built in. That one input is connected to one solar array. I had 3 inverters in parallel. This meant I had 3 MPPT chargers total. I also had 3 solar arrays and each array was connected to one MPPT. A single solar array MIGHT have one string, or multiple strings.
I know your in MA how are you able to add the 2nd inverter to the grid. Are you submiiting to the utility or just adding. I am looking to add another inverter to my 12 year old system as it previously cover my electric bill. Now with the added charges and rate increases I am paying every month now. 5.5 kw with a Solaredge inverter.
Sounds like we have very different systems. As I stated in the video, my inverters are off grid. No grid connection. No back-feeding. You said you have a Solaredge inverter. To my knowledge, Solaredge only makes grid tied inverters.
Even with the added discrete spit-phase transformer, the ES5000 seems like a way better deal... and spend the money you save on *more batteries* ! ;-) Happy New Year, David!
Now that you got both inverters working together did you call your local power company to cut you off permanently or do you still have power from the company?
Love your videos. When you paralleled the 2 inverters did you hook up the generator to both of them or just one inverter. And does paralleling give you twice the charging capacity?
Yes. The generator input is now tied to both inverters, so both can charge the battery bank together. However, my generator isn't large enough for all that, so I typically charge through a separate device called a chargeverter: th-cam.com/video/DEpKq_Fg1rw/w-d-xo.htmlsi=l-zh5ue5DpxOoaSC
David, I would like to know if you still use those 48v SMA Sunny Boy inverters anymore? Would they be able to work at the same time with other off grid 48 v. inverters like the outback Radian or LV 6548 type inverters?
David Questions about your house All electric? Hot water resistant heat? Electric dryer Electric stove Electric heat resistance backup? Heat pump? What’s different tells us?
Hi disneyjoe7, My house is 100% electric. I built my home 10 or 11 years ago and there is a whole series of videos on my channel detailing it. Hot water is both solar and electric. I built a 250 gallon solar thermal "battery" that pre-heats the incoming water (videos on my channel about this). Then the water goes through a 19 gallon electric resistance tank called a "booster" tank. If the water is not hot enough, then the booster tank brings it up the rest of the way. Yes, I have an electric Dryer. Yes, electric stove. Yes, electric resistance baseboard heat. Although, since I installed the mini-split heat pump I don't use the baseboard as often. How about you?
Hi David, Thanks so much for sharing your knowledge and skills! I am without much experience at all but I am looking at this deal, - Samsung 24s Lithium Ion 6kWh Module - 3x 8s Modules brand new @ $330.00. It seems like a real deal, is there anything I should really consider being an issue with these? Also, what is your opinion of 1-2 of these - EG4 6000XP Off-Grid Inverter | All-In-One Solar Inverter | 6000W Output | 8000W PV Input | 480V VOC Input | 48V 120/240V Split Phase - depending on the size? I am planning on a solar array of 8000w capability. I live in a moderate climate but will be installing a hot tub along with typical 3+2 home usage. Any input would be greatly appreciated,
I see now that the 8000w output will barely power the hot tub if 220v so I imagine you would steer me towards dual Schneider or the EG4® 18kPV-12LV All-In-One Hybrid Inverter as likely options. Am I thinking correct?
Inverters: Schneider makes an excellent inverter, but it wouldn't fall into the "deal" category I think you are going for. The all-in-one inverters are a better fit for beginners. They are cheaper up front, and easier to install. EG4 18KPV vs. 6000XP. Both of these are very good options. The 18kPV will work for most people I consult with. The 18kPV is a better choice if you have grid, and are planning to lower your grid consumption. The 6000XP will save you money, but I reserve it to off-grid only applications. If you decide to buy one, please consider using my affiliate link as it really helps out: signaturesolar.com/?ref=4_rHcgZ9x-TiF- discount code: DAVIDPOZ Battery: The Samsung battery you are looking at has 3x 8s modules. meaning, each module has 8 cells in series. These are lithium-ion cells, not LiFePO4. Meaning, they have a higher Voltage than LiFePO4 cells. Both inverters you mentioned are nominal 48V inverters. The EG418kPV goes up to 60V. If you took 2 of the Samsung modules, ran them in series for 16s, then you would have a maximum Voltage of over 66V. That means you won't be able to use all the capacity with the EG4 inverters. For this reason, I don't recommend you use the Samsung modules with the EG4 inverters. If your goal is to DIY your own battery, then check out these: batteryhookup.com/products/4-new-eve-3-2v-280ah-lk280k-lifepo4-prismatic combined with the 300A BMS. Use code DAVIDPOZ I have several videos on my channel showing how to build a battery with BMS that will help you out. Good luck.
@DavidPozEnergy Thanks so much! I think this is really good advice for a novice like myself. My electrician friend says we can be 100% off grid and not feed any energy back while using the proper equipment and additional panel (s?) that would allow gris access, does this sound safe and possible if done properly> I do not want to risk any solar/battery power getting into grid yet staying connected would allow a smaller 30kwh battery system. Does all of that sound doable, what might I be missing? Just to confirm, the batteries you linked would be 8 x $430 = $3440 for 28kwh batteries +/-, correct? $123 per kwh, I am assuming this is a quality "knock off" of a more regarded or other battery, correct? These have a proven track record? I will make sure and use promo so you benefit!
Check out this video: th-cam.com/video/Rar7VWhqB_o/w-d-xo.htmlsi=4cCzHzQEOt5a7wp5 In this video I use some modules from Battery Hookup. The modules have 8x 280Ah cells in each. So I grouped 2 modules in series for 16s. This is essentially what you would be making with the cells I linked to above. You could make as many 48V batteries as you wan to add capacity. Another option is to buy a pre-built battery to save time and get your system up and running faster. However, it costs more money. .Example: signaturesolar.com/eg4-powerpro-ess-14-3-28-6kwh-capacity-eg4-18kpv-eg4-powerpro-wallmount-battery-ul9540/?ref=4_rHcgZ9x-TiF- Personally, I don't run my grid through my inverters. I have a manual transfer switch over by the meter, I can switch my house to run off the grid, or from my off-grid solar system. But, the two don't mix in any way. I don't run the grid through the inverters. In this scenario, buying 2x (or more) EG46000XP would be good because it saves money. However, if you want to run the grid through the inverters, then buy 1 (or 2) of the EG4 18kPV. The 18kPV is built for the grid to pass-through. You can still program it for "zero export" meaning it won't back-feed the grid.
I think they both have a time and place in different situations. I can't say one is better or worse than the other without knowing the application. First, I've never tested a Victron brand inverter. I love the Victron equipment I have, but it's charge controllers and battery monitors. Second, the Schneider is UL listed for residential applications. So, does your application require a permit?
Did you use their AGS? I have 4 6848’s in my system and I have never had the ags be reliable. I have a 20 kw Kohler genset that I am trying to replace with an MEP-805. This has been the Bain of my solar experience. Any suggestions are appreciated.
Your welcome. I'm not sure if this link will work, but I'm trying to link to his ebay store. www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?item=185539237162&rt=nc&_trksid=p4429486.m3561.l161211&_ssn=kloppk
David - how many watts of power from your panels/strings are you pushing through your combiner boxes? We have the opportunity to purchase LONGi Hi-MO 5 panels (545 watt panels) and I need to order enough to feed these XW PRO's. I am researching your old videos of when you first installed your ground mount system.
@@DavidPozEnergy thanks for replying, David! Yes - I am aware that we will need to purchase MPPT solar charge controllers separately. I need to size the charge controllers for a (2) 2,000 Amp hour Absolyte batteries - not sure how to configure between the amount of LongI Hi-Mo5 545 watt panels(arrays)/ how many MPPT solar charge controllers to charge the battery bank. When I spoke with Dean he was saying to go with a 20KW generator as back up if necessary. I was hoping to see how you laid out your system with the (2) XW PRO 6848 inverters you set up. Willing to pay you to see it if necessary. Love what you have done over the years!
I'm using the Schneider charge controller that goes up to 100A, 600V. This charge controller can have up to 7.4kW of solar panels attached. You said you are looking to buy 545W panels. 7,400W/545W/p=13.6 panels. Depending on the Voc, and the temperature zone you are in, you might end up with 12 panels total, on 2 strings, or 3 strings. I'm sorry, but as comments get longer and older I'm not going to be able to keep responding.
Yeah, it's certainly something that put me off at first. One of the reasons I like the Schneider is that you only have to make sure the firmware matches. But, you never NEED to update firmware again. And, Schneider doesn't force updates. I've heard from users of other "all-in-one" inverters that sometimes there is forced updates from the web and it causes problems.
They are not the easiest products to install. The inverter will start right up out of the box, give it 48V and it will spit out 120/240V. No programming. I used mine for a few months doing that before I ever hooked up the "Insight Home" for programming. The programming is the annoying part. Schneider has excellent manuals for all the wiring, mounting, etc. But, not fantastic literature on how to program. I felt it was worth the hassle to set the insight home up because it allows parallel inverters, and setting the charge controller Voltage.
David I need some advice. I have 8 solar panels that are hitting 137 volts at about 70 degrees. I'm not home much but when I get home now that it's winter do you think they will smoke my 150-70 charge controller? I don't really know how much the panel voltage will rise because of cold weather.
You gave me great advice before on the mini split and I bought the same you have. I'm in the semi truck sometimes a couple months at a time but advice about my panel voltage would be greatly appreciated. Thanks man
@@DavidPozEnergy thanks David. I think you just saved my 150-70 victron from being in a over voltage situation. I wasn't sure if the VOC or the actual loaded voltage would change but I guess either one will smoke the charger. I now know not to turn on my panels when I get home until I rewire some stuff. Thanks again for your help
No, but I'd love to. I don't have enough money to buy inverters just for the purpose of testing. But, if someone was in New England and was willing to let me test theirs, that would be great for a video.
David like you we are building our new home which sounds alot like yours. Maybe a little bigger. I would love to talk to you about going off grid which we are not on grid yet in the new house. I don't know how we can get ahold of each other. I don't want to put my phone number on here for everyone to see.
Schneider Electric...same company that makes UPS (Uninterruptable Power Supply) Systems??? ...if so, they're a pretty reputable company!!! So are these Pure Sine Wave Inverters? Also, might need to differentiate between "brownout" vs "surge"!!!...for those unaware!!! So I'm guessing that when they're "synced" up the voltage between master & slave(s) has the 60 Hz voltage frequencies "in phase" thus avoiding any voltage spikes.
Best quote I have ever seen - "Being cheap is expensive. It just takes longer." - and it definitely shows in the end.
I'm glad to see that you're providing honest reviews regarding the many benefits of using low frequency, transformer based inverter charger technology compared to the cheap, light duty, short lived, low surge capacity, high frequency, transformerless inverters that everyone else seems to be pushing.
Your welcome. There is a place for everything. I value surge capacity and longevity. Those transformerless inverters are good if you value speed of install.
Awesome! You'll have a hell of a time load testing them in parallel, those things are beasts!
Yeah. Maybe boil that 55 gallon drum of water?
I'm sure I could find enough load to test them:)
@@DavidPozEnergy I did see you video on water heating and showed it to my wife Deanna - she was impressed!
I'm a huge fan I bought Schneider I have 1 and a large PDP 8500 watts in solar and 2 -80/600 charge controllers grid tied with a 21.5 KW lithium ion phosphate battery. I thought I could run 2 36,000 btu ACs but each takes almost 5kw till the home is cooled and they go down to 2kw but this never happens because they trip and burn out 150amp fuse in the battery. If it is connected to the grid wouldn't the grid come on and help with the load? I am thinking of adding an additional inverter to help with the load or have another person check that everything is connected correctly? I'm at my wits end my wife keeps saying I told you so😂😂😂
Yet another excellent video! To avoid a multi-unit event, you can energize the DC breakers one at a time and put the units in Standby before programming.
Would love to see the video showing them both performing in sync. Have the same setup and almost ready to commission. It has been a learning experience to say the least.
i would like to see wattage split evenly at quarter load. cheers!
Ditto! Also show imbalanced loads. All other tubers who test other inverters won't show that test. I have the same ones as you, but I have't setup the 2nd one yet. I bought the kit w/o knowing my Conext GW would allow me to tune the inverters.
ITS SOO NICE TO HAVE THE SECOND SCHNEIDER INVERTER .🤗 THIS IS GREAT ROCKING AT FULL POWER .MAY THE SOLAR BE WITH YOU .😉
Love the videos, thanks. I am getting all the parts for my new house and off grid solar system. Because of your videos I purchased a pallet of those batteries to diy you featured a while back.. I purchased ~29k watts of panels (2 pallets of 400 watt bi facials) and I was going to get 2 of these schneider inverters but since the EG4 6000XP's came out and seem to have great performance I went ahead and purchased 3 of those instead... they are sooo much cheaper than these schneider inverters and seem to offer equal performance at a fraction of the cost.
12:52 The 32840 number is the direct 16 bits value out of 65536 range for the digital section that regulate the voltage I guess... It mean the total voltage span is divided in 65536 steps.
Thanks for that. I was curious why the value.
great review. A little disappointed with the voltage imbalance you had to manually deal with. I hope they fix this.
I've installed three parallel 6.5kva inverters to my new Off-grid place in the UK. To minimise idle power consumption I normally run one or two of them at one time. Having three gives me redundancy which is very important when you are relying on your own supply
Love the video, please do a Load test with max surge you can do.
I have been waiting for this install.
Thank you for sharing
1.1.24 Yes David to a load test video.
Your videos are always so good I wish I had that kind of patience.
It would be awesome if you could do a video on load shedding with the XW, Like, turning on a circuit to a hot water tank if your SOC is above 95%. It would have been nice if the XW had the "smart load" like the sol-ark on the XW Grid input for off grid people like us.
Schneider makes nice equipment for sure. Expensive as all get out though. For me, only needing occasional use during a power failure, I've opted for something from the orient. I recently sold my Sigineer and am probably going to go with a hybrid Sungold Power inverter. I believe in low frequency for sure but cannot afford to invest much more than the price of one of these. I believe that last time I checked Schneider was about double, thereabouts. I plan on tying it into the generator circuit and use the manual transfer breaker and lockout I already own. For occasional use this should suffice even though I'll need to flip the breakers and turn the battery and inverter on. If I had a need for off grid 100%, I'd probably opt for similar to your's.
Its amazing what batteries can do.
Thank you David, that was very interesting an helpful, Good luck to you an your family for the coming years ahead.. Michael
These are pretty impressive low wattage draw.. My Magnum 4400VA is about draining that same value at 29W but it is half the size. But David these Iddle power are not totally lost !!! thesea re mainly heat loss which during winter is in fact nearly fully recovered !!! so the real loss is nearly ZERO 9 maybe 5W of electronagnetic field and mecanical 120Hz vibration...
Good point, it's nice to have the extra heat in winter.
@@DavidPozEnergyDoes this mean that you have to use twice the amount of energy to cool down the heat that it creates plus the additional idle energy that it burns through during the summer months?
I think that it is a shame that you didn’t make a video putting these inverters together on a step by step basis so that DIYers could have been more easily informed about how to do this incredible project. What I find amazing is that my first system in 48V used a Schneider Conext 6048, as I recall. Due to freezing temperatures freezing my lithium batteries out of a Tesla and them starting fire to my solar shed and barn the fire burned down was the driving force behind my acquiring the LTO batteries and Sol-Ark 12K and the two step up 5K Watt generators.
@@fisherus I wouldn't say "shame" - BUT - I would be greatly interested in seeing the build!! My wife and I are attempting the same type of system with Absolyte GX 2,000 Amp hour battery banks for storage... so seeing solar controllers would have been fantastic.
been saving my pennies for my 2nd unit, thanks for the video
David - I will look into the MPPT solar charge controller(s) you suggested - thank you for the assistance!! If you have a separate webpage I would love to join to learn more. I appreciate the help and insight!
Here is the charge controller I'm using: signaturesolar.com/schneider-charge-controller-mppt-100-600/?ref=4_rHcgZ9x-TiF-
(affiliate link)
Might consider a hoist on your garage ceiling. It's easy to build/install one that can handle 200# and is just the thing to lift those inverters up so you can put them on the wall. Getting help is great, but safest is a hoist that carries the weight. Of course, if you want to go crazy and put in a 1 ton hoist I'll be happy to see it!
Would love to see a detailed comparison with the EG4 18k, David style.
I am installing the same system currently and your videos are very helpful.
NICE, I Just Finished A Full 20-Acre Ranch Off Grid Job w/ 3-15kw SolArks + 4- x6 Racks Of EG4s = 122.8kw Of Batteries... They Were 135lbs Each, Butt Easy To Hang On The Wall Brackets & VERY MUCH Easier To Program Them Those Schneider's, Plus It Only Took One Day To Complete w/A Helper For Assembling Components... 😜🤣😁😎 PS Total Cost Was Abouts $65k + Install Labors
I'd love to see a comparison to the EG4 6000XP
Have you considered a video that covers an overview of what you would consider the best complete system setup now that we are entering a new year?
The trouble is "best" means something different to each person. What does it mean to you?
@@DavidPozEnergy I was thinking something along the lines of what ProjectFarm does. You intensely analyze and review a lot of products, if you had an annual overview and gave your opinion of which components you personally would purchase again. I don't think it has to be all encompassing, just an annual "these are my favorites".
That's cool. Thanks for the idea. I like project farm too. I'll work on an outline for that.
$12,000 for 2 of the low frequency Schneider's vs $3,000 for a pair of the high frequency 6000XP's. I've been wrestling with this decision for several months now. I'm sure either system will run my well pump and mini-split air conditioners but am still leaning toward the XW PRO's. There is a lot to be said for big iron transformers when it comes to surge capability and their better handling of reactive loads.
It comes down to your loads. I have a friend with an off grid property, Poet. Poet has a well about 100 feet deep, so that's considered shallow compared to people out west. That well pump can run on a Growatt 5000, so it would also run on a EG4 6000XP. However, if you truly wanted to re-create the total power of the two Schneiders, you probably need 4 of the EG4 6000XP inverters.
If you do NAZ solar electric the price is considerably cheaper - I got everything on the wall in the video minus the MPPT for a little over $5k - 2 inverters, PDP, connection kit, breakers, insight home and I got a BCS since I am on-grid - the sales engineer was knowledgable and helped make sure I didn't miss anything
Gosto muito do seus vídeos, eu ostaria de saber se esses inversores sao de baixa frequência, pois vi no início do vídeo mostrando um transformador toroidal. Obrigado 🤜🏽🤛🏽
Yes, they are low frequency.
Nice job David. Maybe one day I'll have my two connected together. :D
Do you think they are vastly superior to SMA Sunny islands?
As they have crazy surge power as well.
Also against the victron quattro with their autoformer.
I wouldn't say "vastly superior". I like the Schneider a little more than SMA. Both are excellent build quality, but Schneider built this specifically for the off grid home. The programming is easier on Schneider than SMA. Schneider is set up for DC coupling out of the box and SMA wants AC coupling. There's a few other little things. If you have to pay retail pricing for both, Schneider is the clear winner. If you get a huge discount on the SMA, it might be worth the extra hassle.
I'd love to test a Victron quattro, but I don't have the money to buy one just for testing it.
Yes I'd like to see you load test the two inverter because I'm thinking to do the same because I have a lot of load two air conditioners well pump sump pump instantaneous hot water heater. 75 amps.2 refrigerators 2 freezers
David - Deanna and I are changing up our approach to the off grid power system that we will install at the property. We were able to retrieve two Absolyte GX (48volt) battery banks from a telecom company. We are looking into two (used) XW PRO 6848 due to the amount of power necessary to charge the Absolyte batteries. I don't think that one unit will have enough power to charge a battery bank. Do you have a page on how you installed your units, combiner boxes and inverters? I greatly appreciate your videos but sometimes layouts and photos help me to better comprehend how best to construct something. Thank you for all that you do to help those of us who are still learning! Dean Abney sent me over to you!
The XW PRO inverters can charge a battery from an AC source. This could be the grid and/or generator. Is this what you are asking about, or are you asking about charging a battery with solar? If you want to charge your battery with solar, then you need a separate MPPT solar charge controller.
@@DavidPozEnergy Yes - I need to apply the most amps possible to the Absolyte Battery Bank that I am able with solar. I only want to use the generator as minimally as is possible. Having two of these battery banks made me wonder if it is possible to apply enough power to the banks with solar alone. It would take the XW PRO Inverters less time to charge running a 20KW generator but I prefer to keep the batteries full with as much solar as is possible. How large of an MPPT Controller (100 Amps or more) should I be looking into. A lot of questions in regard to charging these batteries.
I got the F3800, easy mode and only for outages. Someday I hope to have a smaller home with permanent off grid solar and batteries.
No David no more videos, it’s time for a movie. lol please 😂😂😂😂. We really love watching your videos. On that note please you and your family have a great and blessed new year. 🇯🇲🇯🇲🇯🇲🇯🇲🇯🇲
I would prefer those type of transformers, they are quality inverters, but money forced me in a different direction..I switched my old inverter out for the EG4 6000 XP, which I'm very happy with..I built a small house in the forest, that is extremely efficient, so I don't really need anything like that anyhow..And I have backups for everything..But, if my kids were not grown, I might have went in that direction..I do think that going with solar is half of the answer, the other half is using far less energy..I don't think I've ever pulled more than 100 amps..Very nice..
David - thanks for the video's. These Schneider low frequency inverters are great - but expensive. I wish I could run my house on one inverter (new house with 5 ton ac) but that is probably only wishful thinking. Stories out there about software glitches and poor support may be old news? Tough to beat two 6000XPs where you could throw them away every 5 years and still be money ahead. Or do you think one Schneider could do what two 6000xp could do?
Big Money,
I understand this is content for your channel so cost justification doesn't enter the formula. Schneider certainly has brand recognition and follows all electrical code requirements so for industrial application could approach cost justification, but certainly not for the average homeowner.
NICE
You must have a very happy New Year.
Cheers
EG4's 6000XP holds up against the schneiders, you should test one out. Also comes with split phase 120/240 and you can run multiple in parallel. Also comes with a 480V MPPT Controller built in.
I'd love to test one. Could you elaborate on what you mean when you say "holds up against the Schneiders"? Thanks.
@DavidPozEnergy sure, some of the features you were praising the Schneider for were having split phase 120/240, large surge capacity, ability to parallel multiple inverters, communication between the inverters. You said there's no other inverter you tested that "does a better job on surges and load imbalance". The 6000XP does all of that + it comes with all the breakers, + it comes with a MPPT Charge Controller for 8KW Solar AND it's more than half the cost. Would love to see you test it out on the channel.
The only place the 6000XP is shy of the Schneider is it's 6KW instead of 6.8KW
Thank you for clarifying. I think the EG4 6000XP is a fantastic value. Certainly for a lot of people working with tight budgets, the EG4 is going to be a better fit. I really do hope to run some good testing on it.
I predict that the surge capacity and load imbalance will not be the same between the two. Even if we adjust results as a ratio of rated power to surge power (in order to account for the 0.8kW difference). If Signature Solar wants to send me one of those inverters I'll test the heck out of it.
@@hummmingbear the Schneider can support near the full 6.8kw load on a single leg, while the EG4 6000XP cannot do more than 3000 watts per leg. Hence a good job on a load imbalance
always better setups... i need another server batt. during long nights... glad the grid is still on... for now...
Thanks for your update💯 I am building a system like that one in Jamaica
Great vid David,the efficiency and ease of conecting master and slave to expand load capability are great ....,I've never seen the schneider inverters here in south africa i see your models are xw pro 6848 ,would you know the model for single phase 230v ac 50hz hybrid inverters of schneider ....i dont see it on their website ...we dont use split phase in south africa but 230v 50hz ...wondered if you had that info on hand?
It's the same model. You can change the setting in the Insight Home to 230V, 50htz. Although, if you buy it from a local supplier it might be pre configured?
What is the brand of the torque screwdriver he used?
I would like to see you attach a grid tie inverter to the schneiders (on your AC side) to provide more AC input to your house loads, by using the schneiders to generate the AC "grid" signal to cause the grid tie inverters to produce power, so we can see the schneider match the solar inverter output to your load while doing all the things the schneiders do. the XWPRO's will adjust the grid frequency a few hertz to throttle a grid tie inverter if it is making more power than you house needs, all while charging your batteries. How many kW of solar panels do you have? thank you
I've experimented with AC coupling. Yes, the Schneider's work fine with it, and frequency shift as they are made to. However, My grid-tie inverter doesn't handle surges well in comparison to the Schneider's. So, on some heavy surge loads, it doesn't respond as well. It's better to use MPPT charge controllers.
wiring my batteries to inverter, should + and - be same length are does it matter? THANKS for your HELP! watch you all the time
If you have a single positive conductor, and a single negative conductor, then they don't have to be the same length. In my setup, I have a pair (2) positive conductors, and a pair (2) negative conductors. The positives must be the same length to each other, and the negatives must be the same length to each other, but the positive and negative still don't have to be the same.
Note, we are aiming for the same resistance, but the short-hand way of getting there is to make them the same length.
Thanks@@DavidPozEnergy
Your system is starting to approach what my loads require. This is the way to go for big surge. Your point on the Luxpower 18k (or Sol-Ark 15k) are going to be easier is true, but also (as you stated) the surge isn't going to be close compared to the Schneiders.
My big question for you is how are you generating all that power you can use now??? That one 6k MPPT doesn't seem like its going to make you enough.
My system needs 3 x 6k MPPTs (which also brings you up to the Luxpower/Sol-Ark capacities).
At $1300 per MPPT and $3100 per inverter, $1100 for a PDP , Insights home, troughs, expansion packs.... man that is getting up there in price. But no doubt a rock solid system.
Victron Quattro inverter is also good.
Do the math: 1500 kwh/mo = 1,500,000 whr, divide by 30 days - 50,000 whr per day, divide by 24 hrs = 2083 watt per hr. Figure enough solar to produce that using the specific average number of hours of usable sun per day in your location (mine is 6). Then install enough panel, battery and inverter. One 6K inverter should do. What are you doing with 18,000w charge controllers? I've found that finding ways to save current is less expensive than just powering what you already have. Check your math.
Great review setup mate, we just upgraded our system although it was a 10k multi Victron inverter/ charger , the kits they supplied you looks tha biz, happy new year from downunder 🇦🇺🤙
Your thumbnail looks like a command, "run everything in your house!".... Now? Haha😂
I wonder, if both inverters have the same load at any time.
Ps...i prefer the low frequency inverters ,and the peak they can handle ...these xw pro's definitly seem to be able to handle a lot for a 6,8kw unit
very similar to the magnasine inverters, Merry Chreistmas! and Happy New Year!
Thanks GOG.
Hello @DavidPoz
I have some recently bought lifepo4 cells.
Out of ignorance, I connected them down in series, while waiting for my daly BMS to arrive my home country.
Upon BMS arrival, I went checking the voltage of the batteries, only for me to find each and all, reading negative (-26.40V ) on the multimeter as against 26.40V as at the very day they were connected after top balancing. Please, is there anything I can do to correct this?
Thank you for the video, I purchased a used Schneider conext xw 7048 and looking for how to disable battery charging , where can I find a conext scp unit ?
The SCP has been replaced by the Insight Home. You might still find an SCP on the shelf of a distributor, but I don't know.
Did you just block Growatt right-side ventilation by installing that new inverter? Seems like only 2-3cm between inverters... Please check it.
Yes, they are close. The Growatt isn't connected to anything anymore. It will be coming down soon.
question, I'm off grid with a small solar system and invertor. Do I bond my service panel or the inverter? My main panel is grounded to a earth ground. Is the inverter my source or is the inverter? Confused.........................
Great info as always! Happy New Year!
I thought using solar for heat was not recommended? Nice to see possibilities but is bigger better?
Using solar PV, to charge a battery, to go to electric resistance heating isn't a very cost-affective route. However, using mini-splits for heating (running on electric) can be.
Greetings from sunny Portugal. Could the voltage difference be related to hardware? ie the cables used in each inverter were not identical spec so had slightly different resistance. I have two Victron MP2 5KVA inverters in parallel and it states very clearly in the manual all cables/breakers both DC from the bus bar & AC to distribution box must be identical spec.
Happy New Year David to you and your family.
I asked Schneider about that. They said it probably has to do with the 1.5 years between manufacturing dates.
Remember, usually with Victron each inverter is 120V only. So getting the sync correct is probably a different type of computer thing.
@@DavidPozEnergyIf he's from Portugal, he's running 240V on his Victrons. Victron also says for parallel configs the manufacturing dates need to be
Awesome
I have a question for ya dave. you said these have a built in charger. i was wondering if it functions like a transfer switch when the battery is full directing its grid power to the load? i dont have any panels but just need a UPS back up for my whole home. this inverter seems to have it all. im hoping it has a feature like that.
Yes. Each inverter has a built-in 60A (240V) relay to allow the grid to pass-though. Using this as a UPS is very common.
Thanks for another good vid. Do you know the overall idle (efficiency of DC -> AC) for the Schneider's? I'm off-grid and run 2 x 12,000w AIMS that each have 36,000w surge. Each one goes to it's own distribution box / set of circuits. This works because I have good circuit info and manually distributed the load so that neither inverter is overloaded even with everything on at the same time. It's all manual / simple BUT..... there's high idle (200w / inverter) and in low % inverter load (
In idle, each inverter is 34W. I did a few point readings and averaged 96% efficient for the inverter. However, I really need to sit down and do several more data points and plot the efficiency curve to give a better answer.
Do you prefer this setup to the dual sunny islands you had a few years ago?
Yes. They are both top of the line, but I prefer the Schneider slightly.
#1 reason, is the programming. The Schneider worked right out of the box making 120/240V without me needing to do anything. The SMA required programming to turn on. Also, the SMA is factory set for flooded lead acid batteries. Since I'm using lithium, the SMAs don't work without closed-loop communication.
#2, the wiring. Schneider has the PDP and wire-ways so that the whole setup is UL Listed, and easy to pass inspection.
#3, SMA is 120V only, so you need a pair for 120/240V.
But, hey, they are both great. If you had an option for a really good price on a pair of SMA it can still be a good bargain. But, be prepared for more difficulties programming.
@@DavidPozEnergy thanks for replying. Those are very valid points. I bought sunny islands after watching your vids and seeing how well they can handle loads but you are right- you need them in pairs and they need expensive bms for lithium batteries. If and when these give out though, I more than likely will go with victron inverters. their ESS system and venus OS are very exciting
Didn't you have 2or 3 inverters paralleled a couple of years ago?
How about testing a Yiyen 12KW split phase inverter with 36000 watt surge capacity. It only takes 5 wires and no software to deal with. Once it's hanging on the wall you can literally have it running in thirty minutes. Mine has been running seven years zero problems. And only $3500 .
Hi Terry. For sure, you have a great setup. I'm a bit more worried about total efficiency. I live in MA, with long stretches of cloudy weather, and my backyard is very limited to the solar window. I don't have any more space for more solar panels. I think (from your photos) you have a farm with space available for more panels, right? So you can add a few more panels to overcome the efficiency loss?
@DavidPozEnergy Yes I have unlimited space for panels. Every time I can put up a panel that I can park on under it Then I get shade and I get a panel. I'm not as concerned with with the efficiency. I'm concerned that my system doesn't bother me when i'm doing my normal work on tractors. And I hate software problems with a passion.
Hi David, one question: When connecting pv strings to a three parallel inverters, each inverter must be connected to individual pv strings? Thank you!
These inverters do NOT connect directly to PV strings.
@@DavidPozEnergy I was referring to any other inverters like Growatt for example. I chose the wrong video to ask the question, sorry.
For example, my Growatt inverters I used for a couple years... Each inverter had one MPPT controller built in. That one input is connected to one solar array. I had 3 inverters in parallel. This meant I had 3 MPPT chargers total. I also had 3 solar arrays and each array was connected to one MPPT.
A single solar array MIGHT have one string, or multiple strings.
@@DavidPozEnergy Excellent! Thanks a lot for your reply, it has helped me to clarify my doubts. All the best.
I know your in MA how are you able to add the 2nd inverter to the grid. Are you submiiting to the utility or just adding. I am looking to add another inverter to my 12 year old system as it previously cover my electric bill. Now with the added charges and rate increases I am paying every month now. 5.5 kw with a Solaredge inverter.
Sounds like we have very different systems.
As I stated in the video, my inverters are off grid. No grid connection. No back-feeding. You said you have a Solaredge inverter. To my knowledge, Solaredge only makes grid tied inverters.
Even with the added discrete spit-phase transformer, the ES5000 seems like a way better deal... and spend the money you save on *more batteries* ! ;-)
Happy New Year, David!
Being cheap is expensive. It just takes longer.
Now that you got both inverters working together did you call your local power company to cut you off permanently or do you still have power from the company?
As of right now, the grid is still available if I manually switch back to it.
Love your videos. When you paralleled the 2 inverters did you hook up the generator to both of them or just one inverter. And does paralleling give you twice the charging capacity?
Yes. The generator input is now tied to both inverters, so both can charge the battery bank together. However, my generator isn't large enough for all that, so I typically charge through a separate device called a chargeverter: th-cam.com/video/DEpKq_Fg1rw/w-d-xo.htmlsi=l-zh5ue5DpxOoaSC
@@DavidPozEnergy This was one of the questions that I had when we were speaking. Thank you.
David, I would like to know if you still use those 48v SMA Sunny Boy inverters anymore? Would they be able to work at the same time with other off grid 48 v. inverters like the outback Radian or LV 6548 type inverters?
I no longer have the SMA inverters.
David
Questions about your house
All electric?
Hot water resistant heat?
Electric dryer
Electric stove
Electric heat resistance backup?
Heat pump?
What’s different tells us?
Hi disneyjoe7,
My house is 100% electric. I built my home 10 or 11 years ago and there is a whole series of videos on my channel detailing it.
Hot water is both solar and electric. I built a 250 gallon solar thermal "battery" that pre-heats the incoming water (videos on my channel about this). Then the water goes through a 19 gallon electric resistance tank called a "booster" tank. If the water is not hot enough, then the booster tank brings it up the rest of the way.
Yes, I have an electric Dryer.
Yes, electric stove.
Yes, electric resistance baseboard heat. Although, since I installed the mini-split heat pump I don't use the baseboard as often.
How about you?
David,
I’m gas for…
Heat
Gas stove
Gas dryer
Gas hot water
With a 12kw solar system no batteries backup grid powered with micro inverters. 34 panels
Hi David, Thanks so much for sharing your knowledge and skills! I am without much experience at all but I am looking at this deal, - Samsung 24s Lithium Ion 6kWh Module - 3x 8s Modules brand new @ $330.00. It seems like a real deal, is there anything I should really consider being an issue with these? Also, what is your opinion of 1-2 of these - EG4 6000XP Off-Grid Inverter | All-In-One Solar Inverter | 6000W Output | 8000W PV Input | 480V VOC Input | 48V 120/240V Split Phase - depending on the size? I am planning on a solar array of 8000w capability. I live in a moderate climate but will be installing a hot tub along with typical 3+2 home usage. Any input would be greatly appreciated,
I see now that the 8000w output will barely power the hot tub if 220v so I imagine you would steer me towards dual Schneider or the EG4® 18kPV-12LV All-In-One Hybrid Inverter as likely options. Am I thinking correct?
Inverters: Schneider makes an excellent inverter, but it wouldn't fall into the "deal" category I think you are going for. The all-in-one inverters are a better fit for beginners. They are cheaper up front, and easier to install.
EG4 18KPV vs. 6000XP. Both of these are very good options. The 18kPV will work for most people I consult with. The 18kPV is a better choice if you have grid, and are planning to lower your grid consumption. The 6000XP will save you money, but I reserve it to off-grid only applications. If you decide to buy one, please consider using my affiliate link as it really helps out: signaturesolar.com/?ref=4_rHcgZ9x-TiF-
discount code: DAVIDPOZ
Battery: The Samsung battery you are looking at has 3x 8s modules. meaning, each module has 8 cells in series. These are lithium-ion cells, not LiFePO4. Meaning, they have a higher Voltage than LiFePO4 cells. Both inverters you mentioned are nominal 48V inverters. The EG418kPV goes up to 60V. If you took 2 of the Samsung modules, ran them in series for 16s, then you would have a maximum Voltage of over 66V. That means you won't be able to use all the capacity with the EG4 inverters. For this reason, I don't recommend you use the Samsung modules with the EG4 inverters. If your goal is to DIY your own battery, then check out these: batteryhookup.com/products/4-new-eve-3-2v-280ah-lk280k-lifepo4-prismatic combined with the 300A BMS. Use code DAVIDPOZ
I have several videos on my channel showing how to build a battery with BMS that will help you out. Good luck.
@DavidPozEnergy Thanks so much! I think this is really good advice for a novice like myself. My electrician friend says we can be 100% off grid and not feed any energy back while using the proper equipment and additional panel (s?) that would allow gris access, does this sound safe and possible if done properly> I do not want to risk any solar/battery power getting into grid yet staying connected would allow a smaller 30kwh battery system. Does all of that sound doable, what might I be missing? Just to confirm, the batteries you linked would be 8 x $430 = $3440 for 28kwh batteries +/-, correct? $123 per kwh, I am assuming this is a quality "knock off" of a more regarded or other battery, correct? These have a proven track record?
I will make sure and use promo so you benefit!
Check out this video: th-cam.com/video/Rar7VWhqB_o/w-d-xo.htmlsi=4cCzHzQEOt5a7wp5
In this video I use some modules from Battery Hookup. The modules have 8x 280Ah cells in each. So I grouped 2 modules in series for 16s. This is essentially what you would be making with the cells I linked to above. You could make as many 48V batteries as you wan to add capacity.
Another option is to buy a pre-built battery to save time and get your system up and running faster. However, it costs more money. .Example: signaturesolar.com/eg4-powerpro-ess-14-3-28-6kwh-capacity-eg4-18kpv-eg4-powerpro-wallmount-battery-ul9540/?ref=4_rHcgZ9x-TiF-
Personally, I don't run my grid through my inverters. I have a manual transfer switch over by the meter, I can switch my house to run off the grid, or from my off-grid solar system. But, the two don't mix in any way. I don't run the grid through the inverters. In this scenario, buying 2x (or more) EG46000XP would be good because it saves money. However, if you want to run the grid through the inverters, then buy 1 (or 2) of the EG4 18kPV. The 18kPV is built for the grid to pass-through. You can still program it for "zero export" meaning it won't back-feed the grid.
So what about Victron vs Schneider inverters. Which is better?
I think they both have a time and place in different situations. I can't say one is better or worse than the other without knowing the application.
First, I've never tested a Victron brand inverter. I love the Victron equipment I have, but it's charge controllers and battery monitors.
Second, the Schneider is UL listed for residential applications. So, does your application require a permit?
Thanks David (I'm with Victron EU)...(🌻).
I like Victron equipment. Some day I might get a chance to test a Victron inverter for surge loads, that would be fun.
Did you use their AGS? I have 4 6848’s in my system and I have never had the ags be reliable. I have a 20 kw Kohler genset that I am trying to replace with an MEP-805. This has been the Bain of my solar experience. Any suggestions are appreciated.
I've never used the AGS from Schneider. I'm working on setting up an auto-gen start, but it's third party.
@@DavidPozEnergy if you could use that for your content and share it would be awesome! It’s the only thing I have left to get right.
I'm setting up a 2-wire start on my MEP-802A that I purchased from Kurt Klopp. You can find his stuff on Ebay.
@@DavidPozEnergy thank !!
Your welcome. I'm not sure if this link will work, but I'm trying to link to his ebay store. www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?item=185539237162&rt=nc&_trksid=p4429486.m3561.l161211&_ssn=kloppk
David - how many watts of power from your panels/strings are you pushing through your combiner boxes? We have the opportunity to purchase LONGi Hi-MO 5 panels (545 watt panels) and I need to order enough to feed these XW PRO's. I am researching your old videos of when you first installed your ground mount system.
The XW PRO inverters do NOT have solar charge controllers built-in. Schneider makes 3 models of MPPT solar charge controllers that mount separately.
@@DavidPozEnergy thanks for replying, David! Yes - I am aware that we will need to purchase MPPT solar charge controllers separately. I need to size the charge controllers for a (2) 2,000 Amp hour Absolyte batteries - not sure how to configure between the amount of LongI Hi-Mo5 545 watt panels(arrays)/ how many MPPT solar charge controllers to charge the battery bank. When I spoke with Dean he was saying to go with a 20KW generator as back up if necessary. I was hoping to see how you laid out your system with the (2) XW PRO 6848 inverters you set up. Willing to pay you to see it if necessary. Love what you have done over the years!
I'm using the Schneider charge controller that goes up to 100A, 600V. This charge controller can have up to 7.4kW of solar panels attached. You said you are looking to buy 545W panels.
7,400W/545W/p=13.6 panels.
Depending on the Voc, and the temperature zone you are in, you might end up with 12 panels total, on 2 strings, or 3 strings.
I'm sorry, but as comments get longer and older I'm not going to be able to keep responding.
@@DavidPozEnergy Like I said I am willing to pay to speak with you in email/separate from this channel. Your insight is greatly appreciated.
Nice. Good info.
My problem with all these inverter is all the dam firmware updates. I like the inverter there great. There’s just too much crap just for inverter.
Yeah, it's certainly something that put me off at first. One of the reasons I like the Schneider is that you only have to make sure the firmware matches. But, you never NEED to update firmware again. And, Schneider doesn't force updates. I've heard from users of other "all-in-one" inverters that sometimes there is forced updates from the web and it causes problems.
ya clean install sure we want to see them surge but where you going to get 40000 watts I guess we will see lol.
Yeah, I'll have to use that resistive load bank I made in a previous video.
Hi David. Are you installing all on your own, or are you getting help? I wanted xantrex, but didn’t really feel they were DIY friendly at all…
My dad came over an helped me lift the inverter into place. And, I called my friend Ben at one point for advice.
@@DavidPozEnergy Do you think the Xantrex products are DIY friendly?
They are not the easiest products to install. The inverter will start right up out of the box, give it 48V and it will spit out 120/240V. No programming. I used mine for a few months doing that before I ever hooked up the "Insight Home" for programming. The programming is the annoying part. Schneider has excellent manuals for all the wiring, mounting, etc. But, not fantastic literature on how to program. I felt it was worth the hassle to set the insight home up because it allows parallel inverters, and setting the charge controller Voltage.
Hello David do you live in California
David I need some advice. I have 8 solar panels that are hitting 137 volts at about 70 degrees. I'm not home much but when I get home now that it's winter do you think they will smoke my 150-70 charge controller? I don't really know how much the panel voltage will rise because of cold weather.
You gave me great advice before on the mini split and I bought the same you have. I'm in the semi truck sometimes a couple months at a time but advice about my panel voltage would be greatly appreciated. Thanks man
codes.iccsafe.org/s/ISEP2021P1/national-electrical-code-nec-solar-provisions/ISEP2021P1-NEC-Sec690.7
Depends on your coldest temperature. Where I live, I have to multiply by 1.21. So, if my Voc is 137V, I'd have 165.77V in the cold
@@DavidPozEnergy thanks David. I think you just saved my 150-70 victron from being in a over voltage situation. I wasn't sure if the VOC or the actual loaded voltage would change but I guess either one will smoke the charger. I now know not to turn on my panels when I get home until I rewire some stuff. Thanks again for your help
Is it possible to put the Schneider in Grid tied or hybrid mode ?
Absolutely. It has all those options, I just don't do it on my property.
Have you tested the EG4 18kW inverters yet?
No, but I'd love to. I don't have enough money to buy inverters just for the purpose of testing. But, if someone was in New England and was willing to let me test theirs, that would be great for a video.
And what would that cost to someone who isn't getting stuff free?
Are you eating the growatt behind?
I don't understand. There might be a typo in your question.
@@DavidPozEnergy you're right. That should be leaving the growatts.
I still use the Growatt inverters for testing other things. Oh, and I gave one to a friend.
get a go Shaver like in your adverts
Why have you changed from growat?
I wanted to try out a top of the line inverter. Growatt is a great value, but had some lower quality power output.
Um.. Peer pressure. :D
OK, the real reason, He got tired of me talking about mine. hahahaha
Awesome
What MPPT are you using?
It's the Schneider 600V, 100A model.
Will the inverter charge the batteries from the solar panels?
The solar array is wired to the charge controller, not the inverter.
So I need to purchase a Schneider Mppt
I needed a charge controller because I'm using the Schneider platform. I don't know what you have or what you need.
David, you went right over our heads on this one.
What Battery bank are you using now?
I have a combination of some EG4 batteries, two Discover batteries, and some DIY modules.
Thumbs up 👍
Nice...
Doesn't adding a second inverter double the drain on your battery bank? Maybe you just need to increase the size of your entire system.
Where's the "ahhhhhhhhh" from your baby girl?
David like you we are building our new home which sounds alot like yours. Maybe a little bigger. I would love to talk to you about going off grid which we are not on grid yet in the new house. I don't know how we can get ahold of each other. I don't want to put my phone number on here for everyone to see.
I'm on Facebook. You can send me a message there.
Why to have such a headache to parallel the inverters why not buy just 20kw one peace . Would be easier?
Deye 16k single phase
Thats it!
Schneider Electric...same company that makes UPS (Uninterruptable Power Supply) Systems??? ...if so, they're a pretty reputable company!!! So are these Pure Sine Wave Inverters? Also, might need to differentiate between "brownout" vs "surge"!!!...for those unaware!!! So I'm guessing that when they're "synced" up the voltage between master & slave(s) has the 60 Hz voltage frequencies "in phase" thus avoiding any voltage spikes.
Yes, they are both in phase with each other.