5 lv 20's enter the abyss to conquer an abyssal level, they become corrupted, then turn on each other and the last survivor becomes a Demon Lord. Now that is a Bad Ass one off adventure idea!
Old comment I'm replying to, I know, but this could be a great idea - and if you incorporate the Shadow from World of Darkness' Wraith: The Oblivion game, you could have a lot of fun. The Shadow is the "dark side" of a player character, self destructive to the character itself. The Shadow isn't controlled by the GM or by dice or random chance - no, each player's Shadow is controlled by another player. Yes, in Wraith you are encouraged to screw with your friends. Obviously, it takes a very good group to handle something like that. After all, your Shadow is going to try to screw you over at the absolute worst moments possible. If your group has the goal of "tell a great compelling story" instead of "Ug, me win module" then you can pull it off and have a great time. One of the reasons I love Old WoD so much, especially compared to (especially modern woke) D&D.
Hey gentlemen, I just have a request for these awesome videos...I was wondering if when you're discussing monsters, demons, characters, etc., if you could either A) show a picture from the monster manual or various other guides, or B) put the name of the monster/demon/character on screen to make it easier for people like me to Google for context. Thank you, fellas! Keep up the good work!!
Well you were also wrong, lemures aren't the lowest form of devil, they are the second. Nupperibos are lower. Ohhh sure, nobody cares about nupperibos, they barely ever appear, blah blah blah. BUT YOU GOT IT WRONG *screeching*
Hey Dungeoncast, I know this is like, 5 years later, but you talking about how 5e creatures have "things they aren't resistant to" instead of "weaknesses" got me thinking about an explanation. Could it be that their intention is for these creatures to have double their listed hit points, but it simply didn't work out with the way creature hit points are generated (a combination of size, Constitution score, and the CR system)? So we end up with a Balor that has 262 hit points and resistance to cold, lightning and physical damage from nonmagical weapons, immunity to fire and poison - rather than a Balor with 524 hit points with vulnerability to acid, force, necrotic, psychic, radiant, thunder, physical damage from magical weapons.
I am curious. ...since devils were created to destroy demons if someone could become a warlock with a pact to the Devils specifically to fight demons. Then, he won't become a Lemure but become something higher up like a horned devil so they can continue their fight against demons after their death. I came up with this thought when dealing with a character who did not care for gods and hated demons. So she, as a rogue fought demons but got corrupted. could a devil get corrupted by demons?
I would say.. It depends. If a greater demon or something would somehow get into contact with you, or you go into the Demonic Realms and start fighting at home turf, or constantly fighting them. I would see it as this. 1) You would grow resistant to the Demonic Powers and influences, and stay true to the Devil's Pact. 2) You slowly get corrupted by the Demonic Powers and start taking on more and more characteristics like a Demon, maybe you start getting more power from the Demons, and start relaying less and less on your Devil Patron, and turn against them.
Basically the way I always seen the abyss and baator is it's like there is so much power created that is there forever, and it just keeps respawning them
I feel like the reason (which may appear obvious to some) Demons are so difficult to “handle” or RP as a DM is because they are so completely and utterly unrelateable, not because there aren’t actual people in the world who would fit that alignment, but because there’s no realistically conceivable way a being of such absolute evil and chaos could even function. Even the Joker, who was referred to in this episode as an example of CE, was still “lawful” enough in the mind to make grand plans, organize people to act and work together to an extent, and frankly desired to CONTROL things as a tyrant which is more in long with Devils and LAWFUL evil. Demons on the other hand are so immensely destructive, impulsive, hateful and an absence of redeeming relatable qualities that all they tend to function as in a game is just an adversary, with absolutely no other intent than to watch the world burn (had to say that). By nature they can’t work with anyone out of cooperation, and will only end up working alongside other beings out of fear from more powerful entities who have forced them to do their bidding. That’s virtually all there is to Demons (though that by no means they’re stupid or simple - they just have simple motives but can be fascinating and sophisticated in their own right).
About that possession: Remember what you said about corruption-even if the victim manages to drive the demon out- body and soul- the longer they were possessed the deeper the corruption, The victim is changed permanently
The way they described the abyss remind me of Huaco Mundo from bleach. 1 percent of hollows that become cannibals that transform, and 1 percent of those transforms and so on as you get millions of lower ones and eventually one super powerful ruler.
Since the abyss is infinite layers of chaos are there more demonic equivalents of planes based on all 26 inner planes plus elemental chaos then demonized? (like winds of pain to parody the air plane or a place that's like the frost fell but looks more like carcari etc.)
If I am understanding the question correctly,this is really up to what the DM thinks they can handle. I think our games have a large amount of improvisation so that the plot can generally be derailed and redirected at any given time (within reason). I don't like having to hold on to multiple possible plot lines in my head or DM notes myself. I tend to write out all important "movers and shakers" in my campaign world and have a time line running for their goals and plans. As the players interact with the world they can and do change things in varying degrees, but the world events all keep happening with or without them. With this system of running the game I never feel like there are alternate plot lines that can occur in the same way a choose your own adventure book would. It is more like this is the story of these characters and this world and there is only one story that can be told; the story that occurs. Does this answer you question?
Set limits, with your campaign concepts, and allow choices within that context. Then it can't be derailed but they also get to choose. If you say there are 31 flavors of ice cream to choose from, they can't choose flavor 32, so create as many flavors as needed.
A question I've yet to have answered, buy anyone worth their dice in D&D lore, did the devil's transform into their current state from Angels because of their exposure to the abyss, demons or their own evil actions and machinations?
that thing behind Light isn't a demon, it's a death god. (lesser spirit in ranking, but most of the spirituality considers everything supernatural a god/demon; and demons aren't evil incarnate in the sector of belief, merely anything supernatural that isn't attributed to a deity) [I should probably use past tense]
Quinton Craig In terms of Death Note's lore yeah Ryuuk isn't a demon, but if you were to d&dize that show I'd say a shadow demon giving a fledgling wizard The Book of Vile Darkness to corrupt him would be a good place to start
I would put him in as a lesser god of death (He IS a minor god after all) and by 3.5 terms I'd set him at 3 Divine Rank, powerful enough to challenge any 3rd tier player, but ultimately weaker than most gods. As for D&D izing, I would just make the book require a piece of the target or be in range of said target in order to be able to kill them, the name is not enough, IF we were to use the name system, I would use true names.
The comparison of demons to ants may seem accurate but the ant queen doesnt do much other than passively produce some pheromones and lay eggs. So she is not in power like a demon lord who gives orders, the ant workers figure out what to do on their own based on group behaviours. For example one ant finds some honey so it produces a pheromone track to it, then other ants smell it and follow it to the honey. They also leave a track. Eventually they will transport all of the honey to their anthill, so there wont be anything left to pick up and the ants who are still following the track will stop reinforcing it by ceasing to produce those pheromones. Some time later the track will disappear. So in a sense ants are like one hand just not as much centralized
Yea, the combined forces of gods and devils cannot stop the demons from taking over the world… but there are some beings who can: overpowered munchkin min-maxing Monty Haul super characters! 😉
Those shadow devils from ghost would be shadow devils in dnd. He was a bad man so his bad deeds were having consequences coming back to him for his wickedness. Devils are ambitious and he did it for money
Need to read up on some lore. I just started a new campaign with a new DM, curse of strahd with some home brew stuff like random mutations. After my first session I was given 4 random mutations from a table. I rolled 66, some other number and two 100s. Don't know what system he used by he told me I became a "pseudo demon". I think it's his term. And has told me over the next in game week I will gradual mutate. I will lose my eyes, nose and ears but my senses with increase, I will develop a spicked tentacle for a left arm, I will grow wings and my skill will glow. I also will develop large breasts. I was a big, male teifling paladin. I knew he's homrbrewing it but I'm new to dnd so I think I should know standard demon lore and I'll assume it's relevant untill he corrects me.
I tried this podcast again. I like it, but there's just too many interuptions. 6 commercials plus a "rest" and a 2 minute intro is too much. Good luck guys.
If the youtube platform isn't working for you, we are available on Itunes or any other podcast app with zero ads outside of our "short rest" bit. Thanks for the feedback. We definitely take it to heart.
No problem! Thanks for listening! Also I am looking into the default setting we have been using for our TH-cam ads and you have a very good point. This is being taken care of now. Thank you for the feedback.
The guy on the right really needs to shut up and let the guy trying to teach him, teach him. And his little references arent funny, either. Mostly because theyre usually wrong or dont make sense. Probably because hes too busy thinking of something to say, rather than listening.
Robert Cales if you don't like it there are plenty of other TH-cam channels that post dnd content you can watch instead of insulting someone who's name you apparently dont even know.
Killing a Balor by throwing it off a cliff? Would you then say that you smote its ruin upon the mountainside?
I think my favorite part of this podcast is Will's reactions to Brian's crazy analogies.
That Chaotic Evil Peanut Butter!
5 lv 20's enter the abyss to conquer an abyssal level, they become corrupted, then turn on each other and the last survivor becomes a Demon Lord. Now that is a Bad Ass one off adventure idea!
I'm using this
Old comment I'm replying to, I know, but this could be a great idea - and if you incorporate the Shadow from World of Darkness' Wraith: The Oblivion game, you could have a lot of fun. The Shadow is the "dark side" of a player character, self destructive to the character itself. The Shadow isn't controlled by the GM or by dice or random chance - no, each player's Shadow is controlled by another player.
Yes, in Wraith you are encouraged to screw with your friends.
Obviously, it takes a very good group to handle something like that. After all, your Shadow is going to try to screw you over at the absolute worst moments possible. If your group has the goal of "tell a great compelling story" instead of "Ug, me win module" then you can pull it off and have a great time.
One of the reasons I love Old WoD so much, especially compared to (especially modern woke) D&D.
Hey gentlemen, I just have a request for these awesome videos...I was wondering if when you're discussing monsters, demons, characters, etc., if you could either A) show a picture from the monster manual or various other guides, or B) put the name of the monster/demon/character on screen to make it easier for people like me to Google for context. Thank you, fellas! Keep up the good work!!
I just want to take this moment to say that when I said "Demures" I meant to say "Lemures". Sorry folks.
You have failed us.
Well you were also wrong, lemures aren't the lowest form of devil, they are the second. Nupperibos are lower. Ohhh sure, nobody cares about nupperibos, they barely ever appear, blah blah blah. BUT YOU GOT IT WRONG *screeching*
@@lawaern3474 Nupper boos!
This guy. I'll never forgive him.
Everybody forgets the goristro.... poor goristro...
I love the beginning theme you guys made for this. Hahaha
love the video, but just to rectify: rangers can select fiends as their favourite enemies. Both the revised and the PHB ranger :)
The music in your show is amazing. I get pumped up when I start your episodes
Hey Dungeoncast, I know this is like, 5 years later, but you talking about how 5e creatures have "things they aren't resistant to" instead of "weaknesses" got me thinking about an explanation. Could it be that their intention is for these creatures to have double their listed hit points, but it simply didn't work out with the way creature hit points are generated (a combination of size, Constitution score, and the CR system)? So we end up with a Balor that has 262 hit points and resistance to cold, lightning and physical damage from nonmagical weapons, immunity to fire and poison - rather than a Balor with 524 hit points with vulnerability to acid, force, necrotic, psychic, radiant, thunder, physical damage from magical weapons.
I am curious. ...since devils were created to destroy demons if someone could become a warlock with a pact to the Devils specifically to fight demons. Then, he won't become a Lemure but become something higher up like a horned devil so they can continue their fight against demons after their death.
I came up with this thought when dealing with a character who did not care for gods and hated demons. So she, as a rogue fought demons but got corrupted.
could a devil get corrupted by demons?
I would say.. It depends. If a greater demon or something would somehow get into contact with you, or you go into the Demonic Realms and start fighting at home turf, or constantly fighting them.
I would see it as this.
1) You would grow resistant to the Demonic Powers and influences, and stay true to the Devil's Pact.
2) You slowly get corrupted by the Demonic Powers and start taking on more and more characteristics like a Demon, maybe you start getting more power from the Demons, and start relaying less and less on your Devil Patron, and turn against them.
Yup. That's exactly what happened to the demon lord Grazz't. He was originally a devil.
Basically the way I always seen the abyss and baator is it's like there is so much power created that is there forever, and it just keeps respawning them
The game seems to be based around resistance. Fiends resist all except radiance, for example.
I feel like the reason (which may appear obvious to some) Demons are so difficult to “handle” or RP as a DM is because they are so completely and utterly unrelateable, not because there aren’t actual people in the world who would fit that alignment, but because there’s no realistically conceivable way a being of such absolute evil and chaos could even function. Even the Joker, who was referred to in this episode as an example of CE, was still “lawful” enough in the mind to make grand plans, organize people to act and work together to an extent, and frankly desired to CONTROL things as a tyrant which is more in long with Devils and LAWFUL evil. Demons on the other hand are so immensely destructive, impulsive, hateful and an absence of redeeming relatable qualities that all they tend to function as in a game is just an adversary, with absolutely no other intent than to watch the world burn (had to say that). By nature they can’t work with anyone out of cooperation, and will only end up working alongside other beings out of fear from more powerful entities who have forced them to do their bidding. That’s virtually all there is to Demons (though that by no means they’re stupid or simple - they just have simple motives but can be fascinating and sophisticated in their own right).
About that possession: Remember what you said about corruption-even if the victim manages to drive the demon out- body and soul- the longer they were possessed the deeper the corruption, The victim is changed permanently
“Vrocks have big ass-claws”, you say? So weird - very appropriate for a demon.
1:50 Shout-out to Demi Moore(gon)
Damn son, love your content
No ghost was a great movie but what got me scared as a little kid and watching at the movie theater those Shadow demons.
The way they described the abyss remind me of Huaco Mundo from bleach. 1 percent of hollows that become cannibals that transform, and 1 percent of those transforms and so on as you get millions of lower ones and eventually one super powerful ruler.
Since the abyss is infinite layers of chaos are there more demonic equivalents of planes based on all 26 inner planes plus elemental chaos then demonized? (like winds of pain to parody the air plane or a place that's like the frost fell but looks more like carcari etc.)
The demons don't sleep? No wonder why they're so angry all the time. My girlfriend is the same way.
😂
I was wondering, as a dm, how many alternate plot lines should I have for player based choices?
If I am understanding the question correctly,this is really up to what the DM thinks they can handle.
I think our games have a large amount of improvisation so that the plot can generally be derailed and redirected at any given time (within reason). I don't like having to hold on to multiple possible plot lines in my head or DM notes myself. I tend to write out all important "movers and shakers" in my campaign world and have a time line running for their goals and plans. As the players interact with the world they can and do change things in varying degrees, but the world events all keep happening with or without them. With this system of running the game I never feel like there are alternate plot lines that can occur in the same way a choose your own adventure book would. It is more like this is the story of these characters and this world and there is only one story that can be told; the story that occurs.
Does this answer you question?
Agreed! It’s best to do a few that you do really well than many that are not polished.
Set limits, with your campaign concepts, and allow choices within that context. Then it can't be derailed but they also get to choose. If you say there are 31 flavors of ice cream to choose from, they can't choose flavor 32, so create as many flavors as needed.
A question I've yet to have answered, buy anyone worth their dice in D&D lore, did the devil's transform into their current state from Angels because of their exposure to the abyss, demons or their own evil actions and machinations?
Ya it's like the abyss has so much certain power, hen they go into the prime material plane and get more xp points
Hey guys. Love the show. Wanted to tell you that I think that dndbeyond sounds out the names for you.
that thing behind Light isn't a demon, it's a death god.
(lesser spirit in ranking, but most of the spirituality considers everything supernatural a god/demon;
and demons aren't evil incarnate in the sector of belief, merely anything supernatural that isn't attributed to a deity)
[I should probably use past tense]
Quinton Craig In terms of Death Note's lore yeah Ryuuk isn't a demon, but if you were to d&dize that show I'd say a shadow demon giving a fledgling wizard The Book of Vile Darkness to corrupt him would be a good place to start
I would put him in as a lesser god of death (He IS a minor god after all) and by 3.5 terms I'd set him at 3 Divine Rank, powerful enough to challenge any 3rd tier player, but ultimately weaker than most gods.
As for D&D izing, I would just make the book require a piece of the target or be in range of said target in order to be able to kill them, the name is not enough, IF we were to use the name system, I would use true names.
Or limit its power to just mortals.
This is probably pre mordenkainen but the molydeus is a step above a balor since they work directly with the demon lords
The comparison of demons to ants may seem accurate but the ant queen doesnt do much other than passively produce some pheromones and lay eggs. So she is not in power like a demon lord who gives orders, the ant workers figure out what to do on their own based on group behaviours. For example one ant finds some honey so it produces a pheromone track to it, then other ants smell it and follow it to the honey. They also leave a track. Eventually they will transport all of the honey to their anthill, so there wont be anything left to pick up and the ants who are still following the track will stop reinforcing it by ceasing to produce those pheromones. Some time later the track will disappear. So in a sense ants are like one hand just not as much centralized
The goats of d&d
Yea, the combined forces of gods and devils cannot stop the demons from taking over the world… but there are some beings who can: overpowered munchkin min-maxing Monty Haul super characters! 😉
Seems like the Abyss and Demons are similar to the Warp and Daemons from Warhammer.
Yeah they are very similar
hi
Wow, so a high level Lawful Good PC (with some help) can conquer a level of the Abyss and thus become a demon lord?! 😲
Curious. Demogorgon vs Tiamat. Let's say it's not on eithers home plane. Who wins?
Demogorgon
I wonder if Rakshasa fit into demons or Devils or are like Succubi or Incubi and are simply Fiends that stand outside of the Demon/Devil groups
There are Stranger Things than Demogorgon :)
Those shadow devils from ghost would be shadow devils in dnd. He was a bad man so his bad deeds were having consequences coming back to him for his wickedness. Devils are ambitious and he did it for money
he is a Shinigami witch means god of death in most translations
I got sad when I learned that the Abyss can't be destroyed and will eventually destroy all things.
+Vaigen Sadly, nothing escapes entropy. Or in this case, the all consuming darkness of pure evil.
Welcome to your fantasy existential crisis. 🙃
My character managed to become a god in the service of Bahamut, and stopped the spread of the abyss as well as destroyed 300 levels of the abyss.
You forgot my boy yenogu 🙁
The demon god of yiff and vore.
Welcome back
Need to read up on some lore. I just started a new campaign with a new DM, curse of strahd with some home brew stuff like random mutations. After my first session I was given 4 random mutations from a table. I rolled 66, some other number and two 100s. Don't know what system he used by he told me I became a "pseudo demon". I think it's his term. And has told me over the next in game week I will gradual mutate. I will lose my eyes, nose and ears but my senses with increase, I will develop a spicked tentacle for a left arm, I will grow wings and my skill will glow. I also will develop large breasts. I was a big, male teifling paladin. I knew he's homrbrewing it but I'm new to dnd so I think I should know standard demon lore and I'll assume it's relevant untill he corrects me.
No palenight episode?
The size of a basketball? ever been to Australia mate? that's barely bigger then average.
Are your podcasts available on pandora?
Just saw IT part 2. And I’d say a cultist of a demon lord would look a lot like the kid who liked Pennywise.
What about Yugoloths could they become demon lords the neutral evil things that come from Gahanna.
To me chasme are just big mosquitos
You shall not pass!!!!
Death not there called oni meaning neither good or evil just like d&d characters .
Ryuk is in the death note series is a God of death.
I tried this podcast again. I like it, but there's just too many interuptions. 6 commercials plus a "rest" and a 2 minute intro is too much. Good luck guys.
If the youtube platform isn't working for you, we are available on Itunes or any other podcast app with zero ads outside of our "short rest" bit. Thanks for the feedback. We definitely take it to heart.
The Dungeoncast Awesome! I'll check it out because i love your content. Thanks guys.
No problem! Thanks for listening! Also I am looking into the default setting we have been using for our TH-cam ads and you have a very good point. This is being taken care of now. Thank you for the feedback.
lol Chaotic evil PB. It puts the lotion on the skin. Hahahahahaha
8:36
Let's get this video to 666 likes
The guy on the right really needs to shut up and let the guy trying to teach him, teach him. And his little references arent funny, either. Mostly because theyre usually wrong or dont make sense. Probably because hes too busy thinking of something to say, rather than listening.
Robert Cales if you don't like it there are plenty of other TH-cam channels that post dnd content you can watch instead of insulting someone who's name you apparently dont even know.