Roadside killer was from "Let the Streets run red" book and it is also one of my favorite and I hate that it didnt get added. Hopefully they will update the pdf to have it in the near future if enough people rally to have it added
You are right. They have removed it because it was to similar to Alleycat in their opinion. But it is not gone, you can still use everything from any other V5 book, nothing got removed, it is just not featured here.
Awesome. I had no idea it was in let the streets run red. One of the big reasons I love this book as much as I do is because I still haven't gotten around to read all the others.
The New Ravnos bane is soooo amazing, because the Ravnos are rewriting their history to be descended from trickster Gods and because they are related to changelings in some respects and the whole reality magick angle, they believe they are so they become - The True Name Mythology affects them as tricksters. I was reading the True Name wiki and you can see it affect changelings (Much like the Ravnos) and it mentions Gods like Ra.
Couldn't agree with you more. When I was done filming the review I jumped up out of my chair and ran to tell Serendipity (She played Dawn our Ravnos). We're both stoked about this option.
Survival Instincts seems like it would fit a City Gangrel more then a Gangrel from the main clan. City Gangrel being ambush predators with Celerity instead of Fortitude, so it would make more sense that if they somehow failed to get the jump on thier prey or a rival predator they would probably flee instead of fight so they can hunt another day and I can definitely see that hunting style effect the Beast in a way that the bloodlines bane changes to Survival Instincts instead of Bestial Features.
I'd honestly say the opposite as its a more meaningful curse for a gangrel living in the city to have to deal with hiding animal features than one out in the woods, and similarly its more meaningful for the out in the nowhere gangrel to find themselves jumping at shadows and unable to follow self reliance. A lot like I could see the Tremere Bane adapting to the Carna and Praepositor finding ways to bypass their bane and thus getting hit with Stolen Blood.
Did anyone else noticed they forgot to print death-proof on 126 but still mention it later on on page 234 best 1 dot merit for hunting down necromancer imo.
@@VoivodeMekhet Oh they caught it alright they took it out all together in their pdf update I think anyone who has the early copy should be allowed to have it lol😀
This will be worthwhile, pre ordered months ago. Should be updated for current revisions. All I have to do is wait for both the pet and the inevitable blood sorcery supplement.
While I like most of the stuff, and I swear I jolted at the Melpominee power, I was genuinely disappointed with the change this particular book did to the Samedi. The loresheet on that one is really stupid, and I'm sticking with the one from Cults of the Blood Gods. The reason? Because the Samedi are based around the Baron Samedi, the vampire maybe-loa that founded their line. Lore of the Clans LITERALLY says that the Baron is the central figure, the cornerstone of their Bloodline, so to have the Players Guide try to change that is asinine, and I won't accept this version, and will stick with the proper version in Cults. But great review overall, keep up the good work.
I couldnt agree more, I think it was an unnecessary change but I sort of see where they were coming from. They seem to be moving away from religious and cultural "stereotypes" but as someone with Carribean roots, I love the Samedi and they're my favorite bloodline. I do like some of the new loreasheet abilities though.
Thank you very much. I was also caught off-guard by the change on that loresheet but I do have to wonder if it wasn't done by the suggestion of their Cultural Consultor, James Mendez Hodes. I wonder if having such a culturally important figure such as the Baron Samedi might have been a soft point. The team has been trying to be a lot more culturally sanative and also more inclusive. I have to respect this and it might be a part of this. We can tell in the past, with Ravnos alone, that the old White-Wolf team wasn't concerned with much that at first.
@@VoivodeMekhet I get where you're coming from, still disagree, especially due to the fact that the Samedi have an amazing loresheet and story section in Cults of the Blood Gods that does stay true to their name (Samedi) and their purpose as those Voudun priests who in a fairly good relationship with the dead. You also literally cannot separate the Bloodline from the Baron Samedi, nor rename him, because the entire foundation of their necromancy revolves around the Baron, who they believe is actually the loa and a vampire, much like the Cult of Mithras believes that Mithras is a sun god and vampire. The Players Guide version took out all the cultural points about the relationship with spirits, only vaguely mention vodou, and changes one of the loresheet powers to make them party animals, which is missing the point of them entirely.
I think, and again this is just a thought, not a fact, that they may have removed the Baron due to their new culture sensitive business model. Haitian Vodou is a legit practiced religion and using one of their main religious figures could be considered inconsiderate. The loresheet itself seems to be pretty much the same and taking the 5th level into consideration it seems to me that the Silk Hat may have been passed story wise. The loresheet even says that they went by the name Samedi. There's nothing there banning the past, just escorting into the future at the Hecata gain power.
Roadside Killer was in Let the Streets Run Red supplement, it, along with some of the Hecata Oblivion powers were omitted because they were a bit too niche.
I'm aware now and I get that. I just liked the details of Roadside killer. I could see myself taking that route to survival. I know it's still available, just sad it didn't make the players guide.
Since I will be running with banes based on Disciplines and with clans being a lore thing rather than a mechanical thing (same with Generation), I love the extra bane options. 28 total banes to choose from, and Disciplines dictate what banes you may have. Your first 2 Disciplines are inherited from your sire, those and your thirDisciplines. (Likely from tutelage from Sire or predator type) become your clan disciplines. If your weakness does not manifest like your sire's, you are assumed to be Caitiff if they find out (at least among those who actually care, like the Camarilla).
@@VoivodeMekhet I just hate that the game mechanically ties you to the Caine myth that is supposed to be debatable in Kindred society... that specifically led to a change in how blood potency is listed to decouple the term "Generation" and led to other questions, such as about Clan progenitors.
@Paul Gauthier I disagree because of how Generation is listed, numbered, and functions. The game mechanically reinforces the Caine myth. The clan thing and the Antidiluvians are not necessarily a mechanical attachment to the Caine my, but I kept working on ideas after changing the Generation thing. As I said, some groups still use it in my game, but since it is not marrying a mechanical stat to an in game discussion, it helps to separate the myth. I separate that by merely keeping blood potency cap (which can only increase in a very limited number of ways, most well known being diablerie, of course).
Very true @Paul Gauthier, nothing really makes it so that you need to accept the Caine Myth. If anything you could just say that whoever started those Myths just worked in the details that they noticed and thought would be hard to dispute.
Adding to what you said about the Oblivion stuff. So I actually really loved the combining of Obtenebration and Necromancy and I think I've said so in the past but where I had a problem was how they handled the Necromancy side of things. When they said you would have prerequisite Powers for Ceremonies I was all in and I loved that idea and assumed some of the weaker powers already shown for the Lasombra would be what we had to pick for getting Ceremonies. Instead what we got were more powerful powers (and OP in many cases) but you couldn't have every Ceremony and I did NOT like that at all. Not only that but some of the choices of what Power you needed seemed to be a weird choice for requirements. Have things like Oblivion's Sight for level one Ceremonies or other such powers but you would never get things like Arms of the Abyss unless you were willing to sacrifice access to level 3 Ceremonies. As far as I'm concerned that makes it a great tradeoff and explains why the Lasombra tend towards the more explicit shadow powers and why the Hecata tend towards the more ceremonial side of the Discipline
Oh I completely agree, the Oblivion Ceremony prereqs are shit. Plain and simple. I'm pretty sure in my games I'm just going to do away with them and go back to treating them like Blood Sorcery like in the old days. Make it so the Hecata need to go through a tutor or mentor to learn specific ceremonies and not care about what levels of Oblivion they have.
@@VoivodeMekhet I disagree with doing away with prerequisites all together, I actually like the idea of using that to create a stronger distinction between Hecata Oblivion and Lasombra Oblivion but I completely disagree with their choices on which powers and that you must make a choice as to which ceremony you take. But making a choice to take a stronger power and sacrificing all ceremonies for that level because you chose immediate power
I def agree w/ pretty much all of this. Combining Obtenebration & Necromancy was good not just from a "simplicity of game design" perspective, but from a lore one. Nagaraja & Abyss Mystics have always blurred the line btwn what's "Obtenebration" vs what's "Necromancy", & w/ V5's design philosophy of fewer disciplines that do more, the combination was extremely sound. & Like you, I appreciate the attempt to differentiate btwn the typical arts of a Giovanni vs those of a typical Sabbat priest. You're also very right abt the design-wonk in how those attempts at differentiation were implemented. E.g., a Hecata choosing "Fatal Precognition" as their Obl2 power can't learn "Compel Spirit" or "Summon the Homuncular Servant", while a Hecata who takes "Passion Feast" misses out on "Host Spirit" & "Shambling Hordes". That could be fine if those powers unlocked, say, a "haruspicy tree" or a "Mortis/Deimos" tree, the way that Vicissitude unlocks the "Vicissitude tree". But in its current form (unless the devs added to this in Hunter, the Player's Guide, or the Sabbat book), "Fatal Precognition" only gets one Ceremony at level *four*, & "Passion Feast" gets nothing. For amalgam powers that require 2 diff disciplines, that's feel-bad design. Add to that that there's (1) no Abyss Mystic ceremonies that aren't explicitly tied to Shalim, & (2) no differentiation btwn "ghost necromancers" & "corpses necromancers". All that said, I don't think that ceremony power prereqs is the solution; I think *lore* is. What I would like to see Onyx Path/Paradox/White Wolf/whoever-is-developing-V5-this-month do is to make a clearer distinction btwn "common powers" & powers tied to a specific Kindred culture. Your run-of-the-mill Milliner might know a couple powers to control ghosts, & a Dunsirn ancilla probably knows how to animate corpses, but they'd need to do a sabbatical in the Venetian sewers to learn the lost arts of haruspicy. As such, players can have those rarer powers, but they'd need an appropriate background or mawla to learn them. This also answers questions like "Why can't a Minister learn Chimerstry if they have Obfuscate & Presence in clan?" They could, but they'd need a Ravnos to teach them. "Can a Gangrel w/ out-of-clan Dominate II learn Vicissitude?" Yes, provided some Tzimisce (or Sabbat member, or even a revenant) is willing to teach them. This also kind of future-proofs V5 for when/if they decide to make materials for South Asia, the Middle East, Sub-Saharan Africa, etc. Ultimately, I really love V5, despite its faults, & I hope that moving forward, devs are able to come up w/ more elegant solutions to weave in old bloodline disciplines/blood magic practices. -- Vivi Vendetta (they/them)
@@ViviVendetta Yeah, I want to disagree about the prerequisites but having that narrow of a power selection is just not viable. Maybe a pool of Powers but the most powerful powers are excluded, I don't know. I don't think purely story reasons are ever going to be good enough because then players find loopholes and in addition I'm a firm believer that the importance of mechanics is to facilitate story and RP so those things will happen because the mechanics reflect it but that's sometimes easier said than done. Either way, I think the most powerful Oblivion powers should have either been made Ceremonies or just removed all together
Ok, here's my thoughts involving Oblivion. I believe that (in story) started with Obtenebration. Obten is a raw, explosion of power and seems to effect the environment of the shadowlands and it's effects in the skinlands. Necromancy is a more concentrated use of the same discipline. It is taking something that is chaotic and making it into a Science. Herbology into Botany if you will. I think that the only prerequisite of Oblivion Ceremonies should be the ability to wield Oblivion at the appropriate level and a teacher to show you how the ceremonies work. This could open up an interesting boon/barter relationship with older, more experienced kindred. I would say that for the most past the Hecata would be where they would need to get these ceremonies. As it is in Cults of the Blood Gods there are Oblivion Rituals that the Lasombra themselves practice if they are part of the cult of Shalim.
I think that Melpominee is (aside from a clear reference) an improvement on Irresistible Voice. I don't know of any instance where a player has chosen that 4th level power.
@@ViviVendetta I don't think anybody would take it then as Rationalize, Mass Dominate, and Terminal decree are too useful of buffs for the dot 4 and 5. Competing with Dread Gaze, Entrancement, and Summon for Dot 4 of Presence makes more sense. Removing the eye contact need is also a major buff to Dominate, especially in combat. Not to mention since its on the Presence tree it lets you argue, its in the spirit of the rules, that Star Magnetism lets dominate be used electronically in a similar manner to Entrancement. Melpominee is far more situational, especially without the throw voice power, its pretty much just extended range and removing a blind spot from Presence, let alone the modify two different disciplines. Its not useless like some claim, though it does Make Voice of Hardestat even better.
I completely agree, though, that this book is basically “The Book”. Some things cause head scratching, but you basically “need” only the core book and this and you have a complete game at your hand (while all the other books arent obsolete, your loved Roadside Killer isn't gone, it is just not featured here, but like some powers and other stuff from other books you can still use it if you want). Some things hurt a bit my old player heart, but on its own it is really a good book. I just have to process that V5 finally moved away from being a continuation and is now doing its own thing over there.
@@VoivodeMekhet They definitely went with both in a similar direction. They could have made W5 more similar to previous editions as well, but now that they decided to change things up it would have been weird to keep one game close to canon while the other moves on. Personally I think I start to wrap my head around the new approach. The key is to treat the Lore as something that completely takes place in the background and might or might not be true or just rumors, while the actual focus of the game is to 100% the PCs and their personal story. Therefore the new Clan descriptions barely mention any metaplot or lore and describe the clan from the perspective of someone in the world without the third-person-view of the ST. Since I realized that this is what is going on here I was able to process and appreciate the new stuff much better.
I have being working on a character with 2 character backsheets.. Descendent of Helena and Children of Micheal. Something about combining these 2 makes for such a awesome more "background", social intrigue kind of setting.. But just creating such a character within a normal setting that is planned feels almost impossible
House rules are a thing. I do get why they did this. Only needing (as a storyteller) to keep track of one loresheet per players is a huge relax on stress. But also, the book does say that what you are doing is ok. At ST approval, which in truth all things are, you have a the ability to take the Michael loresheet and a decedents loresheets as a Bloodline. So either way, you're still good.
@@VoivodeMekhet I was given permission to use the character, but neither of us was sure how it would work in a more street level and "traditional' anarch chronicle that was planned.. I shelved the character for now and went for a Gangrel instead. We are gotta do a more dedicated nephilim chronicle after this one is wrapped up.. We did a little 1 on 1 test run with my character and I love it.. Really a combination I recommend everyone to try.
I think that what we need is the Baali to come back with Oblivion, Blood Sorcery and either Presence or Obfuscate. The Amalgams between Oblivion and Blood Sorcery alone would work for Daemonion.
@@VoivodeMekhet Interesting idea to give them both. Need to think about that. An alternative would be, to give them Oblivion and Blood Sorcery as part of what ever infernalist cult they belong to similar to the blood sorcery the church of Caine and the Bahari posess.
I feel like the Baali, if we see them at all in this edition would practice both. It explains a lot about their history, the wars with the Banu Haqim and their connection with darkness itself.
@@VoivodeMekhet yep constant wars and attacks on them plus their strong connection with the diabolic made them develop to a very strong bloodline. however they would have achieved a lot more if they were not fighting each other.
Thanks for review I usually enjoy your videos and insight. We (our group) is overall -dissapointed in this book. The omission of so much (predator types, oblivion, rituals, loresheets, etc) means we still are taking out the exact same number of books as before. Which ultimately defeats the entire purpose of this book. Do you agree with the decision to leave out so much? I tell people this isn't worth the pre-order or the money - as written. But also, in coming months perhaps it will be if they decide to include that which they left out. And why does V5 do the Salubri so dirty?? 😂😂
At first glance I am happy with this book, and that's what these new book reviews typically are. I don't look at them until I have the camera rolling. First impressions and such. I know they left out a lot of the original necromantic Oblivion. They said they were going to leave out the massive "World bending" Oblivion powers and just have the "every dat necromancy" that would be more common in the clan practices. I know they left out roadside killer (my personal favorite) did they leave out other predator types I didn't notice? All in all I still think that the book itself is good as a down and dirty, "I have the core book and the players guide, let's play" kind of thing. There is always going to be reasons to bring or buy the other 5 books that this one has made less necessary. They don't want to make it so the others are pointless completely. As a traveling storyteller, this is perfect for me.
@@VoivodeMekhet thank you for answering. So the powers merits and flaws and loresheets in blood sigils are also not in the players guide - correct? So, what's the point of the players guide being essentially released at the same time if you're just back to square one having to tote around another book? Why do you think blood sigils wasn't released first, which makes a lot more sense?
The big point of this book for me (I do not work for WoD, just a fan. Although if they want to bring me on I'm available. wink wink) is that it is a full compendium of 5 separate book; the Camarilla, the Anarch, Chicago by Night, Cults of the Blood Gods and the Companion. They included everything needed that was in those books that has to do with building and playing characters that are not in the core book. They left out things that were "too big" for the average kindred, example being many of the Necromantic Oblivion powers that cause more issues in games than fun. They also removed anything that had to do with module plotlines; the Chicago city information, the various cults and sect affiliation information. Those things are still available and valid for use but if you were a new player and just wanted the basic info to get a game running, the core book and the players guide is really all you need. I personally love this whole thing because as a traveling storyteller I can now run games without toting around half of my bookcase from home. Now for those of us who already purchased all the books, it's just what it is. I'm glad the WoD team is trying to make the game more accessible to people. Betting ideas will always come but they are trying very hard to stop the game from becoming just a relentless army of "splat books" (as another community member called it.)
Well said. I'm wondering what we're going to see with this book. I seriously doubt it is in it's complete state right now. It goes from the Introduction to chapter 2. I seriously doubt that the editing team would allow that to happen.
Sorry it took so long to answer this. Hopefully you already got a copy. renegadegamestudios.com/vampire-the-masquerade-5th-edition-roleplaying-game-player-s-guide/
“Melpomineeeeee…” I am not sure if I feel the same as you but it differently surprised me similarly. I wonder why it is in here but not any propper Bloodline reference beyond Hecata. I wonder if including Bloodlines was originally planed but got removed or if someone sneaked this in here. I just hope that the Cacophony Loresheed they released for free is not gonna be “it”, because it was rather meh and didn’t even worked as a bloodline Loresheet. I am also a bit confused about this powers function since nothing prevented you from using the mentioned powers, with maybe the exception of Dread Gaze, through voice only in the first place. This is still Presence and not Dominate after all. And the followup power, Thrown Voice, feels more like Obfuscate to me then presence. Its also weird imo, that you have two Powers in presence now, meant to be used in conjunction with other Presence powers, of which you now can only get three more. Tat is not exactly an elegant design, imo.
I can completely see where your coming from. What Cacophony loresheet was released for free? Did I miss something? I've just always been interested in the DoC and the SoD (Son's of Discord), they were actually my second character ever. The fact that their bloodline lore jumps all over the place, are they Toreador, Ventrue, Malkavian, Baali!? I'd like some answers.
You can run with just the core book but there is so much info for other clans in all the other books out there. This book makes it so you don't need all the other books. It combines the clan and discipline info from the Companion, Camarilla book, Anarch book, Cults of the Blood Gods and Chicago by Night. So where unfortunately the Player Guide is not an all in one it does make it so you don't need to have all those other books to run a complete content game. The other books still hold some amazing lore though.
@@VoivodeMekhet I was hopeful that the book would have all the crunch in 1 book. The fluff is great (I have the rulebook, camarilla and anarch books. But I was looking for all the tools to be in 1 book so I'm not dragging multiple books around. Less to carry is good. But it looks like I. Stuck with my laptop and pdfs if I don't want to keep the weight down.
(Haven't purchased this book yet, so I'm basically going off what's in the table in the video.) I have pretty mixed thoughts on what we see of the new predator archetypes in this video. There are definitely some cool ideas -- Grim Reaper, Montero, Pursuer, & Trapdoor all sound cool & have unique spreads of disciplines from every other predatory type -- but the new ones seem to not fit as well together w/ each other as the original 10 in the corebook did. Those 10 used each of the (then) ten disciplines in 2 diff types & didn't repeat any pairs. But among the Player's Guide types (+ Roadside Killer from Let the Streets Run Red), Auspex, Dominate, Obfuscate, Fortitude, & Animalism each have 4 types; Protean & Potence have 3; & Celerity, Presence, Blood Sorcery, & Oblivion only have 2. That's good for the ritual disciplines, imo (they *should* be a little rarer), but I'm surprised there weren't more ideas for Presence, at least. I'm also of two minds on the new predator types in general: I can see how Roadside Killer feels too much like Alleycat, & gaining Fortitude over Celerity as well as Herd feels off to me; meanwhile Extortionist has the exact same disciplines as Scene Queen, & also shares granting the Contacts background. Idk, it's entirely possible that I'm putting too much thought into the system of discipline/advantage distributions of the predator types. It's just something I noticed sharply. But I'll reserve final word until I've read the actual Player's Guide. -- Vivi Vendetta (they/them)
@@VoivodeMekhet Don’t get me wrong, I love the new system! Just wish we didn’t have to home brew practical rituals for Tremere to be of any use in a fight. -I know this isn’t D&D but they ARE vampires!-
I can understand that, but in the storyline of the story the Tremere have been neutered. If you're ignoring that part of the metaplot than just open up all the rest of the Blood Sorcery to them. It's pretty nasty.
@@VoivodeMekhet Does make me wonder if a way to bring them back might be to bring some of the Thaumaturgy Paths back as Tremere only loresheets that are mutually exclusive, representing how hard it is to study multiple specialized paths. I could see a bunch of paths being consolidated to about 1 dot that knowing this path modifies something about regular blood sorcery and rituals, 1 dot that is a background/status you gain due to the things practicing/learning this path gives, then 3 discipline abilities. Then maybe add a few rituals that require the loresheet of a Thaumaturgy Path to learn. Similar things could then also be done for Tzimitzsce, Banu, and Ministry to represent their missing magic abilities. All the while you've kept it in check because you have to sacrifice a lore sheet slot to take.
This book has riled up some players in the community. To the point where a guy was shearing a drive to the book as a form of protest. I've seen a lot of what's in the book and its clear the v5 team hates their audience and the source material with a passion.
I have to disagreed. I do believe that the book is actually pretty well put together and stops me from needing to carry 5 other books from place to place. Sucks it didn't meet up to yours and other peoples expectations but I guess you can't please everyone.
@@VoivodeMekhet Voivode. With all due respect. This book has a lot of issues. Like for example. The alt banes are ether a nothing burger, absolutely crippling or even capable of being weaponized like Banu's poison blood. Then there's the new disciplines which are ether niche, useless, or overpowered. Like the fact we have FLICK as a level 3 potence dot. For reference. That power was exclusive to 5th gen elders due to how powerful it is. You don't even need to roll a rouse check. Where as it costed bp originally. Add in merits like devil's luck which is designed to be a massive middle finger to the st, and hopefully. You understand why some of the playerbase like me really dislike this book.
Obviously I haven't gotten the chance to play with anything here just yet, but I'm kind of looking forward to the conversation I get to have with my players. I like the alternate Banes as written but I'll see as they get used in my games. I actually like the Banu Haqim Bane specifically because they tend to be more pro human than pro kindred in games I run. Making it so that they can't ghoul, blood bond or even lend their blood to healing a mortal is something I can see coming up in my games. But to each their own. You gotta play what works well for you.
@@VoivodeMekhet One recommendation. If you have to allow the Banu poison blood bane. Make it so ether weaponizing the blood is a potential masquerade breach. Or make it so it can only poison via ingestion straight from the source.
Well, it's only an alternate Bane. You no one has to use it. But also, if you're going going by the book it would need to be fresh and from the source. It does say that it's just ingestion.
Roadside killer was from "Let the Streets run red" book and it is also one of my favorite and I hate that it didnt get added. Hopefully they will update the pdf to have it in the near future if enough people rally to have it added
You are right. They have removed it because it was to similar to Alleycat in their opinion. But it is not gone, you can still use everything from any other V5 book, nothing got removed, it is just not featured here.
Awesome. I had no idea it was in let the streets run red. One of the big reasons I love this book as much as I do is because I still haven't gotten around to read all the others.
I like Roadside Killer.
I feel that if I was turned that would be my predator type.
@@VoivodeMekhet I was thinking about this while driving across the country, but interstate rest stops are the perfect Roadside Killer hunting spots
The New Ravnos bane is soooo amazing, because the Ravnos are rewriting their history to be descended from trickster Gods and because they are related to changelings in some respects and the whole reality magick angle, they believe they are so they become - The True Name Mythology affects them as tricksters. I was reading the True Name wiki and you can see it affect changelings (Much like the Ravnos) and it mentions Gods like Ra.
Couldn't agree with you more. When I was done filming the review I jumped up out of my chair and ran to tell Serendipity (She played Dawn our Ravnos). We're both stoked about this option.
Survival Instincts seems like it would fit a City Gangrel more then a Gangrel from the main clan. City Gangrel being ambush predators with Celerity instead of Fortitude, so it would make more sense that if they somehow failed to get the jump on thier prey or a rival predator they would probably flee instead of fight so they can hunt another day and I can definitely see that hunting style effect the Beast in a way that the bloodlines bane changes to Survival Instincts instead of Bestial Features.
I can see that. I like the concept. There's no reason why the antitribue couldn't suffer from these alternate banes in a game.
I'd honestly say the opposite as its a more meaningful curse for a gangrel living in the city to have to deal with hiding animal features than one out in the woods, and similarly its more meaningful for the out in the nowhere gangrel to find themselves jumping at shadows and unable to follow self reliance. A lot like I could see the Tremere Bane adapting to the Carna and Praepositor finding ways to bypass their bane and thus getting hit with Stolen Blood.
Did anyone else noticed they forgot to print death-proof on 126 but still mention it later on on page 234 best 1 dot merit for hunting down necromancer imo.
Good catch. Hopefully it will be caught by printing.
@@VoivodeMekhet Oh they caught it alright they took it out all together in their pdf update I think anyone who has the early copy should be allowed to have it lol😀
This will be worthwhile, pre ordered months ago. Should be updated for current revisions. All I have to do is wait for both the pet and the inevitable blood sorcery supplement.
They're doing a pet book? Liked ghoul animals?
Can auto correct, should be 'pdf', not pet. Have not received mine yet from the UK store yet, am patient though, along with the printed.
Hang on, I have not downloaded the pdf, just as well I just checked after your reply.
Cheers 4 the quick response.
lol, I'm just saying I would buy a book on ghoul animals.
While I like most of the stuff, and I swear I jolted at the Melpominee power, I was genuinely disappointed with the change this particular book did to the Samedi. The loresheet on that one is really stupid, and I'm sticking with the one from Cults of the Blood Gods. The reason? Because the Samedi are based around the Baron Samedi, the vampire maybe-loa that founded their line. Lore of the Clans LITERALLY says that the Baron is the central figure, the cornerstone of their Bloodline, so to have the Players Guide try to change that is asinine, and I won't accept this version, and will stick with the proper version in Cults. But great review overall, keep up the good work.
I couldnt agree more, I think it was an unnecessary change but I sort of see where they were coming from. They seem to be moving away from religious and cultural "stereotypes" but as someone with Carribean roots, I love the Samedi and they're my favorite bloodline. I do like some of the new loreasheet abilities though.
Thank you very much. I was also caught off-guard by the change on that loresheet but I do have to wonder if it wasn't done by the suggestion of their Cultural Consultor, James Mendez Hodes. I wonder if having such a culturally important figure such as the Baron Samedi might have been a soft point. The team has been trying to be a lot more culturally sanative and also more inclusive. I have to respect this and it might be a part of this. We can tell in the past, with Ravnos alone, that the old White-Wolf team wasn't concerned with much that at first.
@@VoivodeMekhet I get where you're coming from, still disagree, especially due to the fact that the Samedi have an amazing loresheet and story section in Cults of the Blood Gods that does stay true to their name (Samedi) and their purpose as those Voudun priests who in a fairly good relationship with the dead. You also literally cannot separate the Bloodline from the Baron Samedi, nor rename him, because the entire foundation of their necromancy revolves around the Baron, who they believe is actually the loa and a vampire, much like the Cult of Mithras believes that Mithras is a sun god and vampire. The Players Guide version took out all the cultural points about the relationship with spirits, only vaguely mention vodou, and changes one of the loresheet powers to make them party animals, which is missing the point of them entirely.
I think, and again this is just a thought, not a fact, that they may have removed the Baron due to their new culture sensitive business model. Haitian Vodou is a legit practiced religion and using one of their main religious figures could be considered inconsiderate. The loresheet itself seems to be pretty much the same and taking the 5th level into consideration it seems to me that the Silk Hat may have been passed story wise. The loresheet even says that they went by the name Samedi. There's nothing there banning the past, just escorting into the future at the Hecata gain power.
Roadside Killer was in Let the Streets Run Red supplement, it, along with some of the Hecata Oblivion powers were omitted because they were a bit too niche.
I'm aware now and I get that. I just liked the details of Roadside killer. I could see myself taking that route to survival. I know it's still available, just sad it didn't make the players guide.
Thank you for sharing this with us. Have some engagement.
Thank you too
Since I will be running with banes based on Disciplines and with clans being a lore thing rather than a mechanical thing (same with Generation), I love the extra bane options. 28 total banes to choose from, and Disciplines dictate what banes you may have.
Your first 2 Disciplines are inherited from your sire, those and your thirDisciplines. (Likely from tutelage from Sire or predator type) become your clan disciplines.
If your weakness does not manifest like your sire's, you are assumed to be Caitiff if they find out (at least among those who actually care, like the Camarilla).
Interesting. So is this like an else worlds kind of thing? It sounds fun.
@@VoivodeMekhet I just hate that the game mechanically ties you to the Caine myth that is supposed to be debatable in Kindred society... that specifically led to a change in how blood potency is listed to decouple the term "Generation" and led to other questions, such as about Clan progenitors.
@Paul Gauthier I disagree because of how Generation is listed, numbered, and functions. The game mechanically reinforces the Caine myth. The clan thing and the Antidiluvians are not necessarily a mechanical attachment to the Caine my, but I kept working on ideas after changing the Generation thing.
As I said, some groups still use it in my game, but since it is not marrying a mechanical stat to an in game discussion, it helps to separate the myth.
I separate that by merely keeping blood potency cap (which can only increase in a very limited number of ways, most well known being diablerie, of course).
Very true @Paul Gauthier, nothing really makes it so that you need to accept the Caine Myth. If anything you could just say that whoever started those Myths just worked in the details that they noticed and thought would be hard to dispute.
You are sooooooo quick. Amazing!
Thank you! 😄I just want to be the first out, lol.
Adding to what you said about the Oblivion stuff. So I actually really loved the combining of Obtenebration and Necromancy and I think I've said so in the past but where I had a problem was how they handled the Necromancy side of things. When they said you would have prerequisite Powers for Ceremonies I was all in and I loved that idea and assumed some of the weaker powers already shown for the Lasombra would be what we had to pick for getting Ceremonies. Instead what we got were more powerful powers (and OP in many cases) but you couldn't have every Ceremony and I did NOT like that at all. Not only that but some of the choices of what Power you needed seemed to be a weird choice for requirements. Have things like Oblivion's Sight for level one Ceremonies or other such powers but you would never get things like Arms of the Abyss unless you were willing to sacrifice access to level 3 Ceremonies. As far as I'm concerned that makes it a great tradeoff and explains why the Lasombra tend towards the more explicit shadow powers and why the Hecata tend towards the more ceremonial side of the Discipline
Oh I completely agree, the Oblivion Ceremony prereqs are shit. Plain and simple. I'm pretty sure in my games I'm just going to do away with them and go back to treating them like Blood Sorcery like in the old days. Make it so the Hecata need to go through a tutor or mentor to learn specific ceremonies and not care about what levels of Oblivion they have.
@@VoivodeMekhet I disagree with doing away with prerequisites all together, I actually like the idea of using that to create a stronger distinction between Hecata Oblivion and Lasombra Oblivion but I completely disagree with their choices on which powers and that you must make a choice as to which ceremony you take. But making a choice to take a stronger power and sacrificing all ceremonies for that level because you chose immediate power
I def agree w/ pretty much all of this. Combining Obtenebration & Necromancy was good not just from a "simplicity of game design" perspective, but from a lore one. Nagaraja & Abyss Mystics have always blurred the line btwn what's "Obtenebration" vs what's "Necromancy", & w/ V5's design philosophy of fewer disciplines that do more, the combination was extremely sound. & Like you, I appreciate the attempt to differentiate btwn the typical arts of a Giovanni vs those of a typical Sabbat priest.
You're also very right abt the design-wonk in how those attempts at differentiation were implemented. E.g., a Hecata choosing "Fatal Precognition" as their Obl2 power can't learn "Compel Spirit" or "Summon the Homuncular Servant", while a Hecata who takes "Passion Feast" misses out on "Host Spirit" & "Shambling Hordes". That could be fine if those powers unlocked, say, a "haruspicy tree" or a "Mortis/Deimos" tree, the way that Vicissitude unlocks the "Vicissitude tree". But in its current form (unless the devs added to this in Hunter, the Player's Guide, or the Sabbat book), "Fatal Precognition" only gets one Ceremony at level *four*, & "Passion Feast" gets nothing. For amalgam powers that require 2 diff disciplines, that's feel-bad design. Add to that that there's (1) no Abyss Mystic ceremonies that aren't explicitly tied to Shalim, & (2) no differentiation btwn "ghost necromancers" & "corpses necromancers".
All that said, I don't think that ceremony power prereqs is the solution; I think *lore* is.
What I would like to see Onyx Path/Paradox/White Wolf/whoever-is-developing-V5-this-month do is to make a clearer distinction btwn "common powers" & powers tied to a specific Kindred culture. Your run-of-the-mill Milliner might know a couple powers to control ghosts, & a Dunsirn ancilla probably knows how to animate corpses, but they'd need to do a sabbatical in the Venetian sewers to learn the lost arts of haruspicy. As such, players can have those rarer powers, but they'd need an appropriate background or mawla to learn them. This also answers questions like "Why can't a Minister learn Chimerstry if they have Obfuscate & Presence in clan?" They could, but they'd need a Ravnos to teach them. "Can a Gangrel w/ out-of-clan Dominate II learn Vicissitude?" Yes, provided some Tzimisce (or Sabbat member, or even a revenant) is willing to teach them. This also kind of future-proofs V5 for when/if they decide to make materials for South Asia, the Middle East, Sub-Saharan Africa, etc.
Ultimately, I really love V5, despite its faults, & I hope that moving forward, devs are able to come up w/ more elegant solutions to weave in old bloodline disciplines/blood magic practices.
-- Vivi Vendetta
(they/them)
@@ViviVendetta Yeah, I want to disagree about the prerequisites but having that narrow of a power selection is just not viable. Maybe a pool of Powers but the most powerful powers are excluded, I don't know. I don't think purely story reasons are ever going to be good enough because then players find loopholes and in addition I'm a firm believer that the importance of mechanics is to facilitate story and RP so those things will happen because the mechanics reflect it but that's sometimes easier said than done. Either way, I think the most powerful Oblivion powers should have either been made Ceremonies or just removed all together
Ok, here's my thoughts involving Oblivion. I believe that (in story) started with Obtenebration. Obten is a raw, explosion of power and seems to effect the environment of the shadowlands and it's effects in the skinlands. Necromancy is a more concentrated use of the same discipline. It is taking something that is chaotic and making it into a Science. Herbology into Botany if you will. I think that the only prerequisite of Oblivion Ceremonies should be the ability to wield Oblivion at the appropriate level and a teacher to show you how the ceremonies work. This could open up an interesting boon/barter relationship with older, more experienced kindred. I would say that for the most past the Hecata would be where they would need to get these ceremonies. As it is in Cults of the Blood Gods there are Oblivion Rituals that the Lasombra themselves practice if they are part of the cult of Shalim.
Nice Overview
Oh cool they brought back the ability for ghouls to rapid heal, hadn't seen that.
It is a necessary aspect of ghouls in my opinion.
It's looking good and can't wait for my copy to hit my library of darkness
I can't wait to not need to carry all those other damn books with me from site to site, lol.
I think that Melpominee is (aside from a clear reference) an improvement on Irresistible Voice. I don't know of any instance where a player has chosen that 4th level power.
I can see that.
Irresistible Voice would have been much better as a Dominate IV amalgam w/ Presence than as a Presence IV amalgam w/ Dominate, imo.
I can see that.
@@ViviVendetta I don't think anybody would take it then as Rationalize, Mass Dominate, and Terminal decree are too useful of buffs for the dot 4 and 5. Competing with Dread Gaze, Entrancement, and Summon for Dot 4 of Presence makes more sense. Removing the eye contact need is also a major buff to Dominate, especially in combat. Not to mention since its on the Presence tree it lets you argue, its in the spirit of the rules, that Star Magnetism lets dominate be used electronically in a similar manner to Entrancement.
Melpominee is far more situational, especially without the throw voice power, its pretty much just extended range and removing a blind spot from Presence, let alone the modify two different disciplines. Its not useless like some claim, though it does Make Voice of Hardestat even better.
I just picked this one up the other day. Had my store put in a order for hunter.
Both amazing books
I completely agree, though, that this book is basically “The Book”. Some things cause head scratching, but you basically “need” only the core book and this and you have a complete game at your hand (while all the other books arent obsolete, your loved Roadside Killer isn't gone, it is just not featured here, but like some powers and other stuff from other books you can still use it if you want).
Some things hurt a bit my old player heart, but on its own it is really a good book. I just have to process that V5 finally moved away from being a continuation and is now doing its own thing over there.
I think with the way they are doing W5 they didn't really have much of a choice.
@@VoivodeMekhet They definitely went with both in a similar direction. They could have made W5 more similar to previous editions as well, but now that they decided to change things up it would have been weird to keep one game close to canon while the other moves on.
Personally I think I start to wrap my head around the new approach. The key is to treat the Lore as something that completely takes place in the background and might or might not be true or just rumors, while the actual focus of the game is to 100% the PCs and their personal story. Therefore the new Clan descriptions barely mention any metaplot or lore and describe the clan from the perspective of someone in the world without the third-person-view of the ST.
Since I realized that this is what is going on here I was able to process and appreciate the new stuff much better.
That is such a great way to look at this.
I have being working on a character with 2 character backsheets..
Descendent of Helena and Children of Micheal.
Something about combining these 2 makes for such a awesome more "background", social intrigue kind of setting..
But just creating such a character within a normal setting that is planned feels almost impossible
House rules are a thing. I do get why they did this. Only needing (as a storyteller) to keep track of one loresheet per players is a huge relax on stress. But also, the book does say that what you are doing is ok. At ST approval, which in truth all things are, you have a the ability to take the Michael loresheet and a decedents loresheets as a Bloodline. So either way, you're still good.
@@VoivodeMekhet
I was given permission to use the character, but neither of us was sure how it would work in a more street level and "traditional' anarch chronicle that was planned..
I shelved the character for now and went for a Gangrel instead.
We are gotta do a more dedicated nephilim chronicle after this one is wrapped up..
We did a little 1 on 1 test run with my character and I love it.. Really a combination I recommend everyone to try.
Very cool. I hope you have a lot of fun with it when you get the chance.
im still for Baali to have Oblivion as their main discipline but Daemonion as a third sub class of the Oblivion discipline.
Some fitting Amalgams, some fitting Ceremonies, done! I think your idea would work well.
I think that what we need is the Baali to come back with Oblivion, Blood Sorcery and either Presence or Obfuscate. The Amalgams between Oblivion and Blood Sorcery alone would work for Daemonion.
@@VoivodeMekhet Interesting idea to give them both. Need to think about that. An alternative would be, to give them Oblivion and Blood Sorcery as part of what ever infernalist cult they belong to similar to the blood sorcery the church of Caine and the Bahari posess.
I feel like the Baali, if we see them at all in this edition would practice both. It explains a lot about their history, the wars with the Banu Haqim and their connection with darkness itself.
@@VoivodeMekhet yep constant wars and attacks on them plus their strong connection with the diabolic made them develop to a very strong bloodline. however they would have achieved a lot more if they were not fighting each other.
Thanks for review I usually enjoy your videos and insight.
We (our group) is overall -dissapointed in this book.
The omission of so much (predator types, oblivion, rituals, loresheets, etc) means we still are taking out the exact same number of books as before. Which ultimately defeats the entire purpose of this book.
Do you agree with the decision to leave out so much?
I tell people this isn't worth the pre-order or the money - as written. But also, in coming months perhaps it will be if they decide to include that which they left out.
And why does V5 do the Salubri so dirty?? 😂😂
At first glance I am happy with this book, and that's what these new book reviews typically are. I don't look at them until I have the camera rolling. First impressions and such. I know they left out a lot of the original necromantic Oblivion. They said they were going to leave out the massive "World bending" Oblivion powers and just have the "every dat necromancy" that would be more common in the clan practices. I know they left out roadside killer (my personal favorite) did they leave out other predator types I didn't notice?
All in all I still think that the book itself is good as a down and dirty, "I have the core book and the players guide, let's play" kind of thing. There is always going to be reasons to bring or buy the other 5 books that this one has made less necessary. They don't want to make it so the others are pointless completely. As a traveling storyteller, this is perfect for me.
@@VoivodeMekhet thank you for answering. So the powers merits and flaws and loresheets in blood sigils are also not in the players guide - correct?
So, what's the point of the players guide being essentially released at the same time if you're just back to square one having to tote around another book? Why do you think blood sigils wasn't released first, which makes a lot more sense?
The big point of this book for me (I do not work for WoD, just a fan. Although if they want to bring me on I'm available. wink wink) is that it is a full compendium of 5 separate book; the Camarilla, the Anarch, Chicago by Night, Cults of the Blood Gods and the Companion. They included everything needed that was in those books that has to do with building and playing characters that are not in the core book. They left out things that were "too big" for the average kindred, example being many of the Necromantic Oblivion powers that cause more issues in games than fun. They also removed anything that had to do with module plotlines; the Chicago city information, the various cults and sect affiliation information. Those things are still available and valid for use but if you were a new player and just wanted the basic info to get a game running, the core book and the players guide is really all you need. I personally love this whole thing because as a traveling storyteller I can now run games without toting around half of my bookcase from home.
Now for those of us who already purchased all the books, it's just what it is. I'm glad the WoD team is trying to make the game more accessible to people. Betting ideas will always come but they are trying very hard to stop the game from becoming just a relentless army of "splat books" (as another community member called it.)
Well said. I'm wondering what we're going to see with this book. I seriously doubt it is in it's complete state right now. It goes from the Introduction to chapter 2. I seriously doubt that the editing team would allow that to happen.
Where can I purchase a copy?
Sorry it took so long to answer this. Hopefully you already got a copy. renegadegamestudios.com/vampire-the-masquerade-5th-edition-roleplaying-game-player-s-guide/
“Melpomineeeeee…” I am not sure if I feel the same as you but it differently surprised me similarly. I wonder why it is in here but not any propper Bloodline reference beyond Hecata. I wonder if including Bloodlines was originally planed but got removed or if someone sneaked this in here. I just hope that the Cacophony Loresheed they released for free is not gonna be “it”, because it was rather meh and didn’t even worked as a bloodline Loresheet.
I am also a bit confused about this powers function since nothing prevented you from using the mentioned powers, with maybe the exception of Dread Gaze, through voice only in the first place. This is still Presence and not Dominate after all.
And the followup power, Thrown Voice, feels more like Obfuscate to me then presence. Its also weird imo, that you have two Powers in presence now, meant to be used in conjunction with other Presence powers, of which you now can only get three more. Tat is not exactly an elegant design, imo.
I can completely see where your coming from. What Cacophony loresheet was released for free? Did I miss something?
I've just always been interested in the DoC and the SoD (Son's of Discord), they were actually my second character ever. The fact that their bloodline lore jumps all over the place, are they Toreador, Ventrue, Malkavian, Baali!? I'd like some answers.
so you still need the main V5 rule book, this is not an all in one book then ?
You can run with just the core book but there is so much info for other clans in all the other books out there. This book makes it so you don't need all the other books. It combines the clan and discipline info from the Companion, Camarilla book, Anarch book, Cults of the Blood Gods and Chicago by Night. So where unfortunately the Player Guide is not an all in one it does make it so you don't need to have all those other books to run a complete content game. The other books still hold some amazing lore though.
@@VoivodeMekhet I was hopeful that the book would have all the crunch in 1 book. The fluff is great (I have the rulebook, camarilla and anarch books. But I was looking for all the tools to be in 1 book so I'm not dragging multiple books around. Less to carry is good. But it looks like I. Stuck with my laptop and pdfs if I don't want to keep the weight down.
(Haven't purchased this book yet, so I'm basically going off what's in the table in the video.)
I have pretty mixed thoughts on what we see of the new predator archetypes in this video. There are definitely some cool ideas -- Grim Reaper, Montero, Pursuer, & Trapdoor all sound cool & have unique spreads of disciplines from every other predatory type -- but the new ones seem to not fit as well together w/ each other as the original 10 in the corebook did. Those 10 used each of the (then) ten disciplines in 2 diff types & didn't repeat any pairs. But among the Player's Guide types (+ Roadside Killer from Let the Streets Run Red), Auspex, Dominate, Obfuscate, Fortitude, & Animalism each have 4 types; Protean & Potence have 3; & Celerity, Presence, Blood Sorcery, & Oblivion only have 2. That's good for the ritual disciplines, imo (they *should* be a little rarer), but I'm surprised there weren't more ideas for Presence, at least.
I'm also of two minds on the new predator types in general: I can see how Roadside Killer feels too much like Alleycat, & gaining Fortitude over Celerity as well as Herd feels off to me; meanwhile Extortionist has the exact same disciplines as Scene Queen, & also shares granting the Contacts background.
Idk, it's entirely possible that I'm putting too much thought into the system of discipline/advantage distributions of the predator types. It's just something I noticed sharply. But I'll reserve final word until I've read the actual Player's Guide.
-- Vivi Vendetta
(they/them)
I really wish there was a system of creating your own Predator Type. I'm used a homebrew version and it was really fun to work with it.
Crap Tremere sorcery and rituals still, huh?
I like what they added personally. I think people are going to keep hating on Blood Sorcery until it get's split into Paths again.
@@VoivodeMekhet Don’t get me wrong, I love the new system! Just wish we didn’t have to home brew practical rituals for Tremere to be of any use in a fight.
-I know this isn’t D&D but they ARE vampires!-
I can understand that, but in the storyline of the story the Tremere have been neutered. If you're ignoring that part of the metaplot than just open up all the rest of the Blood Sorcery to them. It's pretty nasty.
@@VoivodeMekhet Does make me wonder if a way to bring them back might be to bring some of the Thaumaturgy Paths back as Tremere only loresheets that are mutually exclusive, representing how hard it is to study multiple specialized paths. I could see a bunch of paths being consolidated to about 1 dot that knowing this path modifies something about regular blood sorcery and rituals, 1 dot that is a background/status you gain due to the things practicing/learning this path gives, then 3 discipline abilities. Then maybe add a few rituals that require the loresheet of a Thaumaturgy Path to learn. Similar things could then also be done for Tzimitzsce, Banu, and Ministry to represent their missing magic abilities. All the while you've kept it in check because you have to sacrifice a lore sheet slot to take.
This book has riled up some players in the community. To the point where a guy was shearing a drive to the book as a form of protest.
I've seen a lot of what's in the book and its clear the v5 team hates their audience and the source material with a passion.
I have to disagreed. I do believe that the book is actually pretty well put together and stops me from needing to carry 5 other books from place to place. Sucks it didn't meet up to yours and other peoples expectations but I guess you can't please everyone.
@@VoivodeMekhet Voivode. With all due respect. This book has a lot of issues. Like for example. The alt banes are ether a nothing burger, absolutely crippling or even capable of being weaponized like Banu's poison blood.
Then there's the new disciplines which are ether niche, useless, or overpowered. Like the fact we have FLICK as a level 3 potence dot. For reference. That power was exclusive to 5th gen elders due to how powerful it is. You don't even need to roll a rouse check. Where as it costed bp originally.
Add in merits like devil's luck which is designed to be a massive middle finger to the st, and hopefully. You understand why some of the playerbase like me really dislike this book.
Obviously I haven't gotten the chance to play with anything here just yet, but I'm kind of looking forward to the conversation I get to have with my players. I like the alternate Banes as written but I'll see as they get used in my games. I actually like the Banu Haqim Bane specifically because they tend to be more pro human than pro kindred in games I run. Making it so that they can't ghoul, blood bond or even lend their blood to healing a mortal is something I can see coming up in my games. But to each their own. You gotta play what works well for you.
@@VoivodeMekhet One recommendation. If you have to allow the Banu poison blood bane. Make it so ether weaponizing the blood is a potential masquerade breach. Or make it so it can only poison via ingestion straight from the source.
Well, it's only an alternate Bane. You no one has to use it. But also, if you're going going by the book it would need to be fresh and from the source. It does say that it's just ingestion.