I can't stress enough how fascinating it is to see these topics discussed as they affect game models in real time. It is honestly so cool to see the actual normal arrows shift and brighten as link's model animates. Keep up the good work!
That's what I miss from most other videos trying to explain 3D concepts -- they never actually show the concepts visually in real time, and the differences before and after. This video cleared up soo many things for me and has made it easier for me to grasp certain concepts. I remember watching another video from this channel explaining the billboard trees in BotW, or was it perhaps how the eyes of Toon Link were being rendered to always appear on top? Either way, those videos were superb with visual aids, and so is this one. I'm subbing :)
i think we could say that wind waker aesthetic is ahead of its time, when everyone goes into the same realism style nintendo brave enough to explore outside the vault and the result is a beautiful game that win against testiment of time
We could probably not say that. Lots of games used cel shading before Zelda. Jet Grind Radio being the most famous example. Fear Effect as well, among many others. Wind Waker was in no way ahead of its time with this, it wasn't even a very early adopter.
@@gamingblowsofficial Yes you're right, also Vagrant Story among others, BUT, here's the thing, TWW was the one that made the aesthetics popular, before that cel shading was not even popular, and the way they used this technique is what makes it look ahead of it's time, big budget triple A games were not daring enough to try something like it, Zelda is a very important franchise, so for them to try something like that with 50/50% chances of screwing up or being praised is what makes this game timeless, it's not about who did it first Nintendo was not even the first videogame company, so.... same rule applies
People have been born after the Windwaker came out, and some of those people have their own children now. It's time to let go any bitterness about online comments about Windwaker's release.
@@Zazcha1212 Yep, sadly it was attacked for the cartoon graphics, at a time people were expecting more realistic graphics. Still now it looks brilliant, i wished all zelda games had gone this way.
Seeing this video in my sub feed was surreal, it was like, who's this guy? And then upon checking the channel immediately realizing I need to watch this video now.
It must have been annoying writing the shader (and other) code to do those visualisations, and with the nice animations too! It makes me appreciate the effort.
right?! None of this was new information to me, but the presentation is so fantastic that I needed to subscribe, and I hope to see more videos of this style, some of which might actually teach me new things, some might just help with a deeper understanding of things I otherwise had the gist of!
This video production quality is as good, or better than some of the stuff Nintendo Officially releases. This is really great work. Nintendo is missing out by not reaching out to work with these TH-camr who love their games so much, and imagine how much cool inside/background info we could get if Nintendo collaborated with these TH-camrs?
as an artist, the thing about how they manually picked every single shading and lighting color is incredibly impressive and genuinely made me so happy. i love this game even more now
Something I noticed in BOTW is that the shadows of the entire world will match the shadow color of wherever Link is standing. If you stand under a red awning, the shadows on you are red, but then the rest of the world also has red shadows now too. I always thought that was really interesting and I'd love to learn more about how the lighting system in BOTW works
That texture at 9:08 is also how Team Fortress 2 gives its character models a distinct, illustrative look. In the Source engine that TF2 runs on, it's referred to as a lightwarp texture, and there it can also have color, so the lighting can also be tinted based on its luminance. Really cool stuff.
One thing I noticed is that when he changed the gradient to involve four harsh steps, it suddenly started to look like Breath of the Wild. So I guess the toon shading in Breath of the Wild has four or more steps of lighting levels, rather than Wind Waker's simple "shaded" and "not shaded" and the tiny gradient in between.
This video is made with such an incredible effort. The animation, the explanation, just everything all put together. You take a topic that sounds pretty boring and turn it into something fascinating. You deserve all the success that is gonna come to you. Superb video quality, great job. Keep it up! :)
@@zacheray how old are when you saw it? I think depend how you expect it. I like it too when i first saw but that because i start loz from the gba version with similiar design
@@droopy_eyes I question what do you mean by JSR did it out of necessity. The Dreamcast and the GameCube are both 6th generation consoles with virtually the same specs. What's more is that the credits of WW actually take up more space than the game itself. Why? Because the GameCube COULDN'T HANDLE IT. It had to be recorded on a video file and played in that instead which is why the bubbles at the end are always the same. If anything, WW suffered from more hardware issues than JSR. Finally, going backwards blindfolded? Does that suggest that the two N64 titles are superior to WW? Did you even watch the video? The N64 isn't even capable of CEL shading at all. I would also rather have Link's head shaped like some kind of sideways egg than to have individual segments separating his body parts.
@@JasperRLZ That's okay. It's an easy thing to miss. I really appreciate the amount of work and research you took in order to explain the process and mindset of artists and developers making this game look timeless. I really liked it. Keep up the great job. I can't wait to see what you will do next.
Wind Waker has been one of my favorite games of all time ever since I was a kid, and this video taught me so much about it and me me appreciate it a lot more. Thanks for the amazing explanations!
JetSet Radio Did it a little before. They used a pretty similar approach of toon shading for the art style of the game. And they even use different palettes for each time of the day.
Exactly what I was thinking when I saw the shading comparisons, and was like "oooohh so that's why the HD port look like that" such a shame, GC still holds up pretty well
14:30 Love the in depth talk about the pros and cons of either Automatically creating a color pallet, or Manually choosing pallets of color for the numerous different cases. One thing I will say from development experience, is that there were probably a lot of both going on, even when it looks all manually done in the end. We see a result of what looks like laboriously hand choosing individual colors for many scenes, but I imagine they had tools on their end to, say, put in one or two main input colors and generate sets of colors that they were then able to tweak as they saw fit, quickly making the many final pallets. Like you mentioned, harmony between the programming side and the art side is critical, not only in development of the game itself, but also in development of tools to use on their side while working. Any tools the art team can get the programming team to write to help speed up the process saves time and money and is great to look into as much as possible. Side note, it would have been great to see the final implementation of these pallets, like you showed the ZAtoon file. Were the scene's color pallets a similar file? did they combine a lot into a main file? I was quite curious to see more files like that.
This highlights a big visual problem with the WiiU HD port. I love the updated visuals in that game, except for the fire-light. For some reason they elected not to "toonify" the light from fire and left it solely as the vertex lighting, the first step discussed in this video. I always hated it because it's so inconsistent in comparison with the rest of the game.
This. 95% of the time the lighting in the Wii U version looks amazing, but every time Link opens a chest in a dungeon with low lighting, the light source from the item he picks up turns his face into a plastic doll from the vertex stage of lighting.
The amount of editing and digging this video must have taken to make is amazing. What's even more amazing is the way you described everything, and made it easy for anyone to understand. Thank you for creating this!
It’s been a while since I was this excited about seeing a video notification. These are absolutely amazing, from the way you explain the concepts in a very understandable way, to the examples you choose and the animations you create to show the concepts. Nintendo is doing a brilliant job in their artstyle, and you are doing a brilliant job in showing all the magic to us!
As someone who did some speedrunning of this game, There was a very uncommon glitch that messed with the lights. It caused them to shine though anything and everything making forsaken fortress look hilarious :D
The effort put into this video is amazing. Your visual guides are incredible and seeing the lighting change from day to night was very cool! I’m in a texturing class and I just learned about Vertex and Face normals and seeing it talked about in this video helped me remember why they’re important.
The visual explanation style of this video is absolutely top notch, I've never seen so much work and effort put into showing the thing that is explained in such accurate and clear detail before. Amazing stuff
Coming from a beginner on the subject, I would have appreciated seeing how Link's texture is applied when the final lighting is determined with the color palette. I'm assuming the colors are blended together?
I was curious about this and after about 5 seconds of experimentation, yeah, the colors are blended, more specifically they’re applied on top of the base colors in the same way as a multiply blend mode would. If you’re not familiar with it, it essentially turns whites invisible, blacks opaque, and anything inbetween proportionally darkens the layer below. I use it all the time for shading, so it was my first guess as to how it worked.
So detailed and well-explained! Thank you so much for sharing ! I always loved the wind waker but I’m blown away by the level of thought and work put into a seemingly simple design !
As a studying game designer, this video helped me understand cel shading quite a bit more. I was already experimenting with cel shading materials and such before this video, but this has strengthened my understanding of the topic. I'm going to try out some different LUTs (the gradients you mentioned in the toonification section) to see what works for my current passion project.
Wow, what a beautiful explanation of the lighting setup not just in this game, but in general. You managed to hit the sweet spot of conveying all of the nuance of the maths without getting into the weeds. As someone working on a stylized graphics pipeline with very similar goals, it was refreshing to see the similarities and differences with my approach, and the differences in the tradeoffs that were made because of art direction or hardware limitation.
You make everything in your video flow so naturally that it's hard to even see the amount of editing and polishing in this video. You truly deserve every view that you get.
This video has some amazing production value! The part where you were showing all the vertices on Link's model and popping up the normals blew my mind! Some serious editing prowess on display here.
Wow! Amazing video. This is super-interesting. You just made another impressive video. Dude, keep it up. You are doing great. I specially like the way you use animations and 3d models to explain the core concepts of the video (like what a normal is).
I would say jet set radio has a pretty similar cel shading look but uit didn't have a day-night cicle but it came out a bit earlier so i give it some props
Wow, what an amazing video. It's so interesting, well explained and presented. I love it so much, and how you're able to explain such concepts to people who might have no idea about any of the technical stuff that goes on behind the scenes. Keep up the good work!
This video was exactly what I was looking for!!! All day I was thinking about Wind Waker and No More Heroes' cel shading designs and how they did it. Thanks for putting in the time and research for this video!
I love learning about these things, so many simple things in games have such complex stuff going on behind the scenes. Keep up the content, your stuff is amazing!
Agreed. You would think he would have done more research before using such language, practically dismissing the feats that had come before it. At least he could have mentioned the similarities between other titles like Jet Set Radio instead of a lazy 10 second clip of him passing off everything else that came before it.
I don't think he intended to disregard anything elese before or after WW, but the game is simply the topic of his video. + What if he thinks no other cel shading game looks better than WW? Aesthetic personal opinions are entitled for everybody
@@Chaklun96 Using the words "Defined" in the title and "copied" in the description of other cel shaded games, even though he's showing footage of Cel Damage HD which originally released in 2001 but was patched with widescreen support and given the PS2 release features, is effectively blowing off the other titles. As others had stated, "refined" would have been a better word for what Wind Waker accomplished. I think the creator either never played the other titles and simply dismissed them as "trying to copy Wind Waker" or is too young to know about those that came before it and what they brought to the table.
@@dusu571 Once again, however anyone "feels it" or "interprets it" I don't think it was his intention. + A video title is supposed to be catchy to gather clicks, so it doesn't surprise me he choose stronger words like "define". My point is that his main intention was to talk about wind waker's art style and that everything around it was handled quickly / without the same care. He simply went to the point of his topic. Considering the quality of the work, I just find it harsh to disregard it in favor of spity nit-picking.
@@Chaklun96 It boils down to lazy writing. You are right, the title is click-baity. In other words, it's disingenuous. It holds the same problem so many other videos on youtube and other documentaries, as well as mainstream news outlets and political journalists provide to their viewers. It's tiring to see people who care more about providing half-baked explanations regarding topics they want to discuss compared to those who actually put in the time and energy to truly flesh out the subject. Think of LGR, his tech tales series contains copious amounts of information on the subjects he covers, leaving almost no stone unturned. The same goes for Digital Foundry, covering everything in extensive detail, because they hire experts in the field who care about the facts and data. Linus Tech Tips consistently cross referencing other pieces of technology when reviewing the newest or obscure consumer technology on the market. There is a reason why these 3 channels are so successful: they are thorough and accurate. Now take this video and compare it to those channels; he spends 10 seconds to tell the viewer that other games have "copied" Wind Waker and that they don't meet his expectations. Wow. Great job filling that in at the last second. Did we dot our i's while we were crossing our t's too? Anyways, I feel that I am putting too much energy into this thread and am going to put the phone down. But I just wanted to make sure others who happen to read this comment hold videos like these accountable for muddying the facts and being disingenuous to their audience.
Thank you so much for this video, I grew up playing the Wind Waker as one of my first video games and I've always adored the visuals there! Your explanation of the work that went into the lighting/ colors/ tech that went into creating the look of Wind Waker is super informative, my appreciation of the visual staff in the video game field has increased exponentially. I've checked out Wind Waker in noclip.website and aaaaa the visuals makes me want to boot up a GameCube and play it all over again :') tysm for all the work you put into recreating those environments in a virtual museum, gazing at the Great Sea waves as the sun sets and wind blows is incredibly relaxing.
this was one of the coolest videos ive ever watched. i subscribed based off of this video alone. great explanation. i always loved the graphics of windwaker and i was amazed when you started breaking it down and showing how it was made. adjusting the values and stuff was so cool.
Loved the easter egg locations on the "determining environmental colors" section. Especially Dark Souls 1's "Dukes Archives" which is notable because that location has this really pretty grayscale blue-tinted (bluescale?) filter on it that presents this melancholy vibe which really fits the whole "once great dragon gone mad" feel of the area. Possible Dark Souls video coming soon?🙃 Slight tangent, but it just stuck out to me because that's one of my favorite areas in any videogame. Thank you for the awesome video! Videogame lighting has always baffled me as a concept and I feel closer to "enlightenment" as a result of this video.
@@Smaxx Vanilla Dome 2 is a level of Super Mario World. To get to this level, the players must clear the normal exit of Vanilla Dome 1. By completing this level through the Giant Gate, the players gain access to Vanilla Ghost House. By accessing the secret exit, the players gains access to Red Switch Palace. It is a mix of an underground and an underwater level.
@@JasperRLZ I know, I know, but it's a SNES tile based game with no tinting (and I think no palette swapping for that level). So it felt extra weird in there. :D
I love Wind Waker. I love Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks, despite their flaws. But because of the art style, and some aspects of the gameplay, many don't like them to this day, and I feel that we will never see Toon Link ever return to console, if return at all.
@@mokana713 It's also the characters that I want back - I consider Toon Link and Tetra distinct characters from the traditional Link and Zelda. And while there has been a return to the art style, there's never been a true console sequel to Wind Waker, that is, one in a fully 3D view.
Awesome video, I really love how much time and effort you put into illustrating and showing everything you're talking about, it makes it all so much more enjoyable to watch
Just stumbled across this. Thoroughly enjoyed it. Thanks for posting. I played Wind Waker on release, and realised what a wonderful piece of creative design it was. STILL looks amazing. Having the the conviction of a defined and unique art style has made it timeless. The overall atmosphere and player engagement was real class.
your commitment to create a strong visual representation is amazing and I always come back to this video just to see it. This video deserves a million views just from your courtesy of explaining Cel shading in real time!
The 'toon-ify' filter is called windowing or window level contrast. It's often used to enhance the contrast of images that you only need to see a narrow field of the full brightness spectrum (think X-rays, you only care about the values that contain bones or other parts of the body, not the background reflections). And while not particularly difficult math to do, it can be quite computationally expensive when compared to just a lookup and copy, which is why ZAtoon is used to store the pre-computed windowing effect.
As a shading/lighting artist, I was expecting this to be another generic dumbed-down video with heaps of errors, but I was pleasantly surprised by the accuracy and quality of the production. This game is average at best, but this video is super well done! :)
Such a good video. It help me understand different concepts of 3D lighting and get a better perception of the technical implications that this style needs. Thanks.
When I saw this video in my subscribtion box I immediately got excited. I've been checking your account for new videos ever since the Galaxy one months ago! Incredibly fun, well made and interesting to watch. Thank you! Keep it up :)
I found Killer 7 to be another cel shaded game that looked amazing on the gamecube. It has more of a "noir" look to it and they did the same thing but more updated graphics with Killer is Dead. Cel shaded games barely age hahaha
One thing I love about these videos is how simple they are to understand. I know nothing about game development, but the way you outline your videos makes yo not only interesting but educational. Both galaxy and windwaker are games that have made a huge impact in my life and childhood, so its fantastic getting insight into the development and techniques used to create these games. Overall, I really enjoy this series, and hope you have a good day.
"Episode 2" in the title feels a bit misleading. I almost thought I missed a first Windwaker episode. I guess it's referring to the Galaxy 2 video as "episode 1"?
@@JasperRLZ I like the idea of having episodes for the series, I think it just ends up confusing because you put the game title in the title of the "show". So it reads as if there was an episode 1 talking about some other aspect of Windwaker. Something like "How do old games still look so good? Episode 2: Toon Lighting in Windwakre" would be more clear, but I do sort of like the game title directly in the name.
A Nintendo fan will always think that Nintendo did everything first... Jet Set Radio, Fear Effect, Klonoa, Sly Cooper, who ever heard a thing about those?... Cel shading was a big thing in the 2000s dude. Clearly Wind Waker wasn't the first, and saying it was the only one able to do it right is like saying DMC was the only good hack and slash of the 6th console gen
The "toonificaion" is a quantization of the color space. ... Okay, yeah call it toonification. Thanks for the video, I will have to apply this to my projects to simplify my artstyle while keeping it readable. A good technical art project to implement! The ZAToon rect looks exactly like my first experimentation with shaders! How interesting!
I've been doing art and design in videogames for over 20 years and I'm blown away by how accurate AND accessible you've made this information. Not an easy feat. Keep it up!
But "defined" doesn't mean that it was the first game to do so. Just that it was one of the most influential ones. Just like you could say "Britney Spears defined pop music", relating to her iconic style and sound, even though there have been hundreds of pop singers before her.
The video was made so incredibly well, WW is by far my most played Zelda and I found it so interesting to see how the game creates its distinct and beautiful look
Every video has a story, only one is a legend! Absolutely amazing, both interesting and informative, and more than that it is also very motivating to try and do some stuff yourself! Can't even imagine amount of work you had to do for this, but I am really grateful you did it
![ตรงที่เดิม - ฝน พรสุดา [ต้นฉบับ :เบส ขวางหวัน]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/c5YnbGEztI8/mqdefault.jpg)
I can't stress enough how fascinating it is to see these topics discussed as they affect game models in real time. It is honestly so cool to see the actual normal arrows shift and brighten as link's model animates. Keep up the good work!
That's what I miss from most other videos trying to explain 3D concepts -- they never actually show the concepts visually in real time, and the differences before and after. This video cleared up soo many things for me and has made it easier for me to grasp certain concepts.
I remember watching another video from this channel explaining the billboard trees in BotW, or was it perhaps how the eyes of Toon Link were being rendered to always appear on top? Either way, those videos were superb with visual aids, and so is this one. I'm subbing :)
@@XZ-III I'm sorry my avi got you so worked up that you felt compelled to reply
i think we could say that wind waker aesthetic is ahead of its time, when everyone goes into the same realism style nintendo brave enough to explore outside the vault and the result is a beautiful game that win against testiment of time
We could probably not say that. Lots of games used cel shading before Zelda. Jet Grind Radio being the most famous example. Fear Effect as well, among many others. Wind Waker was in no way ahead of its time with this, it wasn't even a very early adopter.
yep this explains the similar visuals as to Breath of the Wild
I can concur the timeless look, though. I'm playing Modern Warfare (2008ish) for the first time and it looks like ass.
@@GibusWearingMann talk about off-model disappointment
@@gamingblowsofficial Yes you're right, also Vagrant Story among others, BUT, here's the thing, TWW was the one that made the aesthetics popular, before that cel shading was not even popular, and the way they used this technique is what makes it look ahead of it's time, big budget triple A games were not daring enough to try something like it, Zelda is a very important franchise, so for them to try something like that with 50/50% chances of screwing up or being praised is what makes this game timeless, it's not about who did it first
Nintendo was not even the first videogame company, so.... same rule applies
I'm still bitter about how badly this game was treated when it came out :(
This has always been my favorite Zelda!
People have been born after the Windwaker came out, and some of those people have their own children now. It's time to let go any bitterness about online comments about Windwaker's release.
Huh it had? I really loved it and still love it!
@@Zazcha1212 Yep, sadly it was attacked for the cartoon graphics, at a time people were expecting more realistic graphics. Still now it looks brilliant, i wished all zelda games had gone this way.
This but Twilight Princess
Same. Alot of ppl were mad it wasn't another serious looking zelda game. Then Twilight Princess came out and I thought it was boring and weird
Seeing this video in my sub feed was surreal, it was like, who's this guy? And then upon checking the channel immediately realizing I need to watch this video now.
lol same XD i remember he doing great on explaning on mario water texture and immediately click on this vid
@@reamuji6775 Yeah, the second I realized it was the guy that did that I was so in.
Same! I was about to unsub thinking I had hit it by mistake. Glad to see another video!
I did the SAME THING
(hey, nice profile picture :33)
The segment beginning at 5:00 is one of the best examples of visual aid I have ever seen. Outstanding work!
It must have been annoying writing the shader (and other) code to do those visualisations, and with the nice animations too! It makes me appreciate the effort.
Yeah came here to say the same thing, incredible amount of work gone into this. Super impressive
right?! None of this was new information to me, but the presentation is so fantastic that I needed to subscribe, and I hope to see more videos of this style, some of which might actually teach me new things, some might just help with a deeper understanding of things I otherwise had the gist of!
This video production quality is as good, or better than some of the stuff Nintendo Officially releases. This is really great work. Nintendo is missing out by not reaching out to work with these TH-camr who love their games so much, and imagine how much cool inside/background info we could get if Nintendo collaborated with these TH-camrs?
Yeah that segment was mesmerizing and I learned so much its it's crazy. What is this guys day job ? He is talented.
as an artist, the thing about how they manually picked every single shading and lighting color is incredibly impressive and genuinely made me so happy. i love this game even more now
Something I noticed in BOTW is that the shadows of the entire world will match the shadow color of wherever Link is standing. If you stand under a red awning, the shadows on you are red, but then the rest of the world also has red shadows now too. I always thought that was really interesting and I'd love to learn more about how the lighting system in BOTW works
Probably just a bug 😁
That texture at 9:08 is also how Team Fortress 2 gives its character models a distinct, illustrative look. In the Source engine that TF2 runs on, it's referred to as a lightwarp texture, and there it can also have color, so the lighting can also be tinted based on its luminance. Really cool stuff.
Would you be up for exploring how Breath of The Wild expanded on these ideas?
One thing I noticed is that when he changed the gradient to involve four harsh steps, it suddenly started to look like Breath of the Wild. So I guess the toon shading in Breath of the Wild has four or more steps of lighting levels, rather than Wind Waker's simple "shaded" and "not shaded" and the tiny gradient in between.
@@catonkatonk can you give a time stamp?
@@mashed5560He talks about it at 10:23 !
Please, this would be awesome
Yes please
"...the vertexes position."
Toon link standing in the background while all of his skin just has a quick seizure
he's just rippling
This video is made with such an incredible effort. The animation, the explanation, just everything all put together.
You take a topic that sounds pretty boring and turn it into something fascinating.
You deserve all the success that is gonna come to you. Superb video quality, great job. Keep it up! :)
"Wind Waker's cel shading was such a unique art style that other games tried to copy"
Jet Set Radio: *Am I a joke to you*
I fell like it is kind of ironic that Jet Set Radio was liked for its art style while Wind Waker was hated for it.
Not by me lol. I was beyond captivated when I first saw it
@@zacheray how old are when you saw it? I think depend how you expect it. I like it too when i first saw but that because i start loz from the gba version with similiar design
@@droopy_eyes I question what do you mean by JSR did it out of necessity. The Dreamcast and the GameCube are both 6th generation consoles with virtually the same specs. What's more is that the credits of WW actually take up more space than the game itself. Why? Because the GameCube COULDN'T HANDLE IT. It had to be recorded on a video file and played in that instead which is why the bubbles at the end are always the same. If anything, WW suffered from more hardware issues than JSR. Finally, going backwards blindfolded? Does that suggest that the two N64 titles are superior to WW? Did you even watch the video? The N64 isn't even capable of CEL shading at all. I would also rather have Link's head shaped like some kind of sideways egg than to have individual segments separating his body parts.
@@No-vy4jp People were more against the cartoony look than the cell shading since Zelda in 3D had always been more "serious" in style.
"E3 2005 trailer for The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker"
I'm sorry to nitpick, but didn't Wind Waker release in 2003 in North America?
Yeah that was a typo I didn't catch. Should be E3 2002.
@@JasperRLZ That's okay. It's an easy thing to miss. I really appreciate the amount of work and research you took in order to explain the process and mindset of artists and developers making this game look timeless. I really liked it. Keep up the great job. I can't wait to see what you will do next.
@@JasperRLZ Might want to make an annotation or add that to the description
@@JJAB91 TH-cam annotations don't exist anymore. I already fixed the description, but nobody reads that.
Woops lol
Wind Waker has been one of my favorite games of all time ever since I was a kid, and this video taught me so much about it and me me appreciate it a lot more. Thanks for the amazing explanations!
Same I want to create a similar game
wind waker had such a solid art style that it may be one of the most well-aged 3d games EVER
I’m happy to see another video from you! I’ve rewatched the Mario Galaxy one so many times!
This is incredible man, graphical techniques are so cool what the hell
JetSet Radio Did it a little before. They used a pretty similar approach of toon shading for the art style of the game. And they even use different palettes for each time of the day.
I would have loved to hear your opinion on TWWHD as that game pretty much eradicates the things you highlighted (which is why I prefer the GC look).
Was waiting the whole video but nope
this!!! is like they threw some hd textures, added vertex lightning, shortened the triforce quest and called it a day XD
Same here. I prefere the Wii/Gamecube Version. I also hate what they did with WW on the Wii U.
Yeah, they took all of this meticulous, hand-crafted work and just threw a crappy post processing shader on top that blew everything out.
Exactly what I was thinking when I saw the shading comparisons, and was like "oooohh so that's why the HD port look like that" such a shame, GC still holds up pretty well
14:30
Love the in depth talk about the pros and cons of either Automatically creating a color pallet, or Manually choosing pallets of color for the numerous different cases.
One thing I will say from development experience, is that there were probably a lot of both going on, even when it looks all manually done in the end. We see a result of what looks like laboriously hand choosing individual colors for many scenes, but I imagine they had tools on their end to, say, put in one or two main input colors and generate sets of colors that they were then able to tweak as they saw fit, quickly making the many final pallets.
Like you mentioned, harmony between the programming side and the art side is critical, not only in development of the game itself, but also in development of tools to use on their side while working. Any tools the art team can get the programming team to write to help speed up the process saves time and money and is great to look into as much as possible.
Side note, it would have been great to see the final implementation of these pallets, like you showed the ZAtoon file. Were the scene's color pallets a similar file? did they combine a lot into a main file? I was quite curious to see more files like that.
This was incredible. Thank you for diving so deep into this
This highlights a big visual problem with the WiiU HD port. I love the updated visuals in that game, except for the fire-light. For some reason they elected not to "toonify" the light from fire and left it solely as the vertex lighting, the first step discussed in this video. I always hated it because it's so inconsistent in comparison with the rest of the game.
No
No it wasn’t inconsistent
I hated it too. Especially in this one boss fight the lighting destroyed it.
This. 95% of the time the lighting in the Wii U version looks amazing, but every time Link opens a chest in a dungeon with low lighting, the light source from the item he picks up turns his face into a plastic doll from the vertex stage of lighting.
The last video was super informative, been waiting for a follow-up for some time now and it's clear you never fail to deliver!
The amount of editing and digging this video must have taken to make is amazing. What's even more amazing is the way you described everything, and made it easy for anyone to understand. Thank you for creating this!
It’s been a while since I was this excited about seeing a video notification. These are absolutely amazing, from the way you explain the concepts in a very understandable way, to the examples you choose and the animations you create to show the concepts. Nintendo is doing a brilliant job in their artstyle, and you are doing a brilliant job in showing all the magic to us!
As someone who did some speedrunning of this game, There was a very uncommon glitch that messed with the lights. It caused them to shine though anything and everything making forsaken fortress look hilarious :D
This channel is so entertaining and informative. I love your presentation and editing style.
The effort put into this video is amazing. Your visual guides are incredible and seeing the lighting change from day to night was very cool!
I’m in a texturing class and I just learned about Vertex and Face normals and seeing it talked about in this video helped me remember why they’re important.
The visual explanation style of this video is absolutely top notch, I've never seen so much work and effort put into showing the thing that is explained in such accurate and clear detail before. Amazing stuff
Coming from a beginner on the subject, I would have appreciated seeing how Link's texture is applied when the final lighting is determined with the color palette. I'm assuming the colors are blended together?
I was curious about this and after about 5 seconds of experimentation, yeah, the colors are blended, more specifically they’re applied on top of the base colors in the same way as a multiply blend mode would. If you’re not familiar with it, it essentially turns whites invisible, blacks opaque, and anything inbetween proportionally darkens the layer below. I use it all the time for shading, so it was my first guess as to how it worked.
Fascinating, and the effects/animated sequences are gorgeous
So detailed and well-explained! Thank you so much for sharing ! I always loved the wind waker but I’m blown away by the level of thought and work put into a seemingly simple design !
As a studying game designer, this video helped me understand cel shading quite a bit more. I was already experimenting with cel shading materials and such before this video, but this has strengthened my understanding of the topic. I'm going to try out some different LUTs (the gradients you mentioned in the toonification section) to see what works for my current passion project.
The legend is you! Between this and your last video your level of detail and explanation are unparalleled. Thank you for all the hard work.
Your videos are so thorough and professionally done. Amazing work 🤩🤩🤩 you really highlight all the work that goes into making these fantastic games
Wow, what a beautiful explanation of the lighting setup not just in this game, but in general. You managed to hit the sweet spot of conveying all of the nuance of the maths without getting into the weeds.
As someone working on a stylized graphics pipeline with very similar goals, it was refreshing to see the similarities and differences with my approach, and the differences in the tradeoffs that were made because of art direction or hardware limitation.
It's crazy how they managed to do this so well in the original, almost 20 years ago. Great video!
You make everything in your video flow so naturally that it's hard to even see the amount of editing and polishing in this video. You truly deserve every view that you get.
This video has some amazing production value! The part where you were showing all the vertices on Link's model and popping up the normals blew my mind! Some serious editing prowess on display here.
This is fantastically explained and presented. Thank you!
Wow! Amazing video. This is super-interesting. You just made another impressive video. Dude, keep it up. You are doing great. I specially like the way you use animations and 3d models to explain the core concepts of the video (like what a normal is).
I would say jet set radio has a pretty similar cel shading look but uit didn't have a day-night cicle but it came out a bit earlier so i give it some props
Wow, what an amazing video. It's so interesting, well explained and presented. I love it so much, and how you're able to explain such concepts to people who might have no idea about any of the technical stuff that goes on behind the scenes. Keep up the good work!
This video was exactly what I was looking for!!! All day I was thinking about Wind Waker and No More Heroes' cel shading designs and how they did it. Thanks for putting in the time and research for this video!
Thank you for this, I'm going to try to recreate this in blender tomorrow.
Shout out from game grumps wonderfull channel dude instant sub
Incredible amount of work in that video. And the explanation is on point. Kudos.
Man you're a wonderful teacher. Your videos absolutely draw me in completely and inspire me.
You are probably gonna get a bunch of subs over the next few days
I was thinking literally just this morning how I was hoping you had a new video. Incredible. Carl Jung talked about this.
Synchronicity is really magic when it happens :)
Might also be Selection bias, Confirmation bias, and/or Availability heuristic :D
I love learning about these things, so many simple things in games have such complex stuff going on behind the scenes. Keep up the content, your stuff is amazing!
This series, though only 2 parts so far is absolutely brilliant! Please keep them coming
"How The Wind Waker Defined Cel Shading"
Jet Set Radio: "Am I a joke to you?"
Agreed. You would think he would have done more research before using such language, practically dismissing the feats that had come before it. At least he could have mentioned the similarities between other titles like Jet Set Radio instead of a lazy 10 second clip of him passing off everything else that came before it.
I don't think he intended to disregard anything elese before or after WW, but the game is simply the topic of his video. + What if he thinks no other cel shading game looks better than WW? Aesthetic personal opinions are entitled for everybody
@@Chaklun96 Using the words "Defined" in the title and "copied" in the description of other cel shaded games, even though he's showing footage of Cel Damage HD which originally released in 2001 but was patched with widescreen support and given the PS2 release features, is effectively blowing off the other titles. As others had stated, "refined" would have been a better word for what Wind Waker accomplished. I think the creator either never played the other titles and simply dismissed them as "trying to copy Wind Waker" or is too young to know about those that came before it and what they brought to the table.
@@dusu571 Once again, however anyone "feels it" or "interprets it" I don't think it was his intention. + A video title is supposed to be catchy to gather clicks, so it doesn't surprise me he choose stronger words like "define". My point is that his main intention was to talk about wind waker's art style and that everything around it was handled quickly / without the same care. He simply went to the point of his topic. Considering the quality of the work, I just find it harsh to disregard it in favor of spity nit-picking.
@@Chaklun96 It boils down to lazy writing. You are right, the title is click-baity. In other words, it's disingenuous. It holds the same problem so many other videos on youtube and other documentaries, as well as mainstream news outlets and political journalists provide to their viewers. It's tiring to see people who care more about providing half-baked explanations regarding topics they want to discuss compared to those who actually put in the time and energy to truly flesh out the subject. Think of LGR, his tech tales series contains copious amounts of information on the subjects he covers, leaving almost no stone unturned. The same goes for Digital Foundry, covering everything in extensive detail, because they hire experts in the field who care about the facts and data. Linus Tech Tips consistently cross referencing other pieces of technology when reviewing the newest or obscure consumer technology on the market. There is a reason why these 3 channels are so successful: they are thorough and accurate. Now take this video and compare it to those channels; he spends 10 seconds to tell the viewer that other games have "copied" Wind Waker and that they don't meet his expectations. Wow. Great job filling that in at the last second. Did we dot our i's while we were crossing our t's too?
Anyways, I feel that I am putting too much energy into this thread and am going to put the phone down. But I just wanted to make sure others who happen to read this comment hold videos like these accountable for muddying the facts and being disingenuous to their audience.
me being a teen back then, it was funny to see that the people that immediately shunned this game were just proving to be the most immature of us all
Thank you so much for this video, I grew up playing the Wind Waker as one of my first video games and I've always adored the visuals there! Your explanation of the work that went into the lighting/ colors/ tech that went into creating the look of Wind Waker is super informative, my appreciation of the visual staff in the video game field has increased exponentially.
I've checked out Wind Waker in noclip.website and aaaaa the visuals makes me want to boot up a GameCube and play it all over again :') tysm for all the work you put into recreating those environments in a virtual museum, gazing at the Great Sea waves as the sun sets and wind blows is incredibly relaxing.
this was one of the coolest videos ive ever watched. i subscribed based off of this video alone. great explanation. i always loved the graphics of windwaker and i was amazed when you started breaking it down and showing how it was made. adjusting the values and stuff was so cool.
Love this content! Enjoy the Grump Bump!
Loved the easter egg locations on the "determining environmental colors" section. Especially Dark Souls 1's "Dukes Archives" which is notable because that location has this really pretty grayscale blue-tinted (bluescale?) filter on it that presents this melancholy vibe which really fits the whole "once great dragon gone mad" feel of the area. Possible Dark Souls video coming soon?🙃
Slight tangent, but it just stuck out to me because that's one of my favorite areas in any videogame. Thank you for the awesome video! Videogame lighting has always baffled me as a concept and I feel closer to "enlightenment" as a result of this video.
Possibly even to catch lazy copy&paste jobs. ;) I'm more confused about Vanilla Dome 2, though. :D
@@Smaxx Vanilla Dome 2 is a level of Super Mario World. To get to this level, the players must clear the normal exit of Vanilla Dome 1. By completing this level through the Giant Gate, the players gain access to Vanilla Ghost House. By accessing the secret exit, the players gains access to Red Switch Palace. It is a mix of an underground and an underwater level.
@@JasperRLZ I know, I know, but it's a SNES tile based game with no tinting (and I think no palette swapping for that level). So it felt extra weird in there. :D
@@JasperRLZ Cel Shading is also useful for anime games DBZ and No More Heros.
BRo I love how you explain every little detail!!!
Wow. The visualizations you present are gorgeous and very informative. This is *excellent* stuff you've created here.
Jet Set Radio would like to have a word
1:18 think you got the date wrong there, the game had already been out 2 years by that point haha.
Wonderful editing, very pleasing to watch. Good job! Great video
So glad I was recommend your channel. Keep it up homie!
How about Jet Set Radio / Jet Grind Radio, depending on where in the world you are. It was release 2 years earlier and if anything looks better.
I love Wind Waker. I love Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks, despite their flaws. But because of the art style, and some aspects of the gameplay, many don't like them to this day, and I feel that we will never see Toon Link ever return to console, if return at all.
Tbf its the art style that has returned the most in the Zelda series.
@@mokana713 It's also the characters that I want back - I consider Toon Link and Tetra distinct characters from the traditional Link and Zelda.
And while there has been a return to the art style, there's never been a true console sequel to Wind Waker, that is, one in a fully 3D view.
Awesome video, I really love how much time and effort you put into illustrating and showing everything you're talking about, it makes it all so much more enjoyable to watch
Just stumbled across this. Thoroughly enjoyed it. Thanks for posting. I played Wind Waker on release, and realised what a wonderful piece of creative design it was. STILL looks amazing. Having the the conviction of a defined and unique art style has made it timeless. The overall atmosphere and player engagement was real class.
"the Link ha!, is down in the description" hehe
Vertex Lit Toon Link isn't real. He can't hurt you.
Vertex Lit Toon Link: 5:00
your commitment to create a strong visual representation is amazing and I always come back to this video just to see it. This video deserves a million views just from your courtesy of explaining Cel shading in real time!
I've been loving this series so far, keep it up man!
The 'toon-ify' filter is called windowing or window level contrast. It's often used to enhance the contrast of images that you only need to see a narrow field of the full brightness spectrum (think X-rays, you only care about the values that contain bones or other parts of the body, not the background reflections). And while not particularly difficult math to do, it can be quite computationally expensive when compared to just a lookup and copy, which is why ZAtoon is used to store the pre-computed windowing effect.
As a shading/lighting artist, I was expecting this to be another generic dumbed-down video with heaps of errors, but I was pleasantly surprised by the accuracy and quality of the production. This game is average at best, but this video is super well done! :)
I have a mission for you Lord Blank.
@@remasteredretropcgames3312 What do you mean?
@@thisisfyne Also mass texture upscales with texmod in DX9 is stage 2.
@@thisisfyne Stage 3 is learning programming to brute force fix jank.
That’s a bold statement calling Wind Waker average.
Such a good video. It help me understand different concepts of 3D lighting and get a better perception of the technical implications that this style needs. Thanks.
When I saw this video in my subscribtion box I immediately got excited. I've been checking your account for new videos ever since the Galaxy one months ago! Incredibly fun, well made and interesting to watch. Thank you! Keep it up :)
The GameGrumps Brought me here!!
I found Killer 7 to be another cel shaded game that looked amazing on the gamecube. It has more of a "noir" look to it and they did the same thing but more updated graphics with Killer is Dead. Cel shaded games barely age hahaha
One thing I love about these videos is how simple they are to understand. I know nothing about game development, but the way you outline your videos makes yo not only interesting but educational. Both galaxy and windwaker are games that have made a huge impact in my life and childhood, so its fantastic getting insight into the development and techniques used to create these games. Overall, I really enjoy this series, and hope you have a good day.
YES! It feels like it’s been so long! I REALLY appreciate your content.
"Episode 2" in the title feels a bit misleading. I almost thought I missed a first Windwaker episode. I guess it's referring to the Galaxy 2 video as "episode 1"?
Yeah. I consider both videos to be part of the same series. I'm considering dropping that verbiage going forward as, yeah, it's a bit confusing.
@@JasperRLZ I like the idea of having episodes for the series, I think it just ends up confusing because you put the game title in the title of the "show". So it reads as if there was an episode 1 talking about some other aspect of Windwaker.
Something like "How do old games still look so good? Episode 2: Toon Lighting in Windwakre" would be more clear, but I do sort of like the game title directly in the name.
A Nintendo fan will always think that Nintendo did everything first... Jet Set Radio, Fear Effect, Klonoa, Sly Cooper, who ever heard a thing about those?... Cel shading was a big thing in the 2000s dude. Clearly Wind Waker wasn't the first, and saying it was the only one able to do it right is like saying DMC was the only good hack and slash of the 6th console gen
Dang! This is an amazingly made video that is super understandable, with so much effort put into it. Thanks!
Beautiful video! Thank you for the explanations :D
The "toonificaion" is a quantization of the color space.
...
Okay, yeah call it toonification.
Thanks for the video, I will have to apply this to my projects to simplify my artstyle while keeping it readable. A good technical art project to implement!
The ZAToon rect looks exactly like my first experimentation with shaders! How interesting!
Grump bump represent
this is awesome, and such a great breakdown. i love it 🥰
Yo that's absolutely amazing! I never realized how much went into its distinct style.
Cell Damage was released months before The Legend of Zelda: The Windwaker, so how the hell is it a "copycat"?!
Game grumps sent me
I've been doing art and design in videogames for over 20 years and I'm blown away by how accurate AND accessible you've made this information. Not an easy feat. Keep it up!
Your videos are so great!! Thank you for such a detailed explanation!!! :D
The title should say "refined" instead of "defined". Cel Shading was used a few times years before this game.
But "defined" doesn't mean that it was the first game to do so. Just that it was one of the most influential ones. Just like you could say "Britney Spears defined pop music", relating to her iconic style and sound, even though there have been hundreds of pop singers before her.
Didn't JSR do cel shading first
Thank you for this! I've never been able to wrap my head around lighting in video games, and this helped explain a lot.
The video was made so incredibly well, WW is by far my most played Zelda and I found it so interesting to see how the game creates its distinct and beautiful look
Uh... Jet Set Radio did it first. AHEM.
Game Grumps sent me. I did the thing!
Super well explained and visualized. I always love to see a relatively niche topic be explored so professionally and artistically.
Every video has a story, only one is a legend!
Absolutely amazing, both interesting and informative, and more than that it is also very motivating to try and do some stuff yourself!
Can't even imagine amount of work you had to do for this, but I am really grateful you did it