Here’s what I know about the cam shaft issue. It’s definitely a thing. It’s effecting some, not all of the 790 and 890’s. KTM has added 24 months on to the warranty on these bikes as long as they are correctly serviced. In New Zealand (where I live) KTM is covering the parts bill for affected bikes outside the warranty. I’ve spoken with the contacts I have at the factory and there is a statement or similar coming soon. I don’t know what, that’s way way above my pay grade 😂. That’s all the information I have, I’ve got nothing else for you guys. I’m off for a ride now!
Thanks for addressing this head on, Chris. Fully understood and noted this is not your problem to solve. That being said, as you are one of the most popular KTM brand influencers, I believe such acknowledgement was to some extent awaited by the fans and is also a sign of respect to them (vs. any hiding, neglecting the issue or plainly ignoring it, as some might be tempted to do). Thanks, good stuff! Now it's KTMs time to own up and clean up the mess they made.
I was one of the many formerly brand loyal riders affected by the 790 camshaft issue and it taught me that KTM’s customer service is spotty, poorly lead, poorly designed (the after-sales service), and at best frustrating to use and navigate through for the customer. In a fair situation some of the good money I gave them should have come back to me for all the lost time riding (six month) and hours and hours of writing, calling, and driving to a dealership for face to face meetings with local dealer employees who also felt left behind by the corporate giant. The complete experience taught me that this part of KTM, the way they chose to treat customers after securing payment, is broken and I chose not to deal with them any longer. I wonder if the company will contact me to apologize for putting me through such troubles when I’ve done everything right? Are other manufacturers any better? After 20 years of buying only KTMs, I’m about to find out first hand. Edit to add: I’ve never heard from KTM about them extending their warranty by 24 months in the USA. If they did, they’ve done a fabulous job of hiding it from me.
Chris, I don’t doubt your honesty for a second, you’re awesome, and I have no issue whatsoever with chinese products per se. But the LC8c has a serious camshaft problem and sadly for a brand-loyalist like me ktm are letting themselves, their ambassadors and their customers down by having the owners pick up the pieces…
I own a 250 xc and a 690 enduro. Would love an 890 but no way will I roll the dice with the failure rate. Will likely end up with a T-7. Not as fun but good enough and reliable
How many cam problems are there in reality. I get the feeling it’s quite rare and people are blowing this out of proportion? Does anyone have any real stats? Cheers
I have a 2023 KTM 890R. Since I’ve had it, I know 3 guys with camshaft failures on 890’s. One friend has had a nightmare experience with the local dealer claiming he was on a which hunt. He showed me the cams at 8k miles and it was grooved bad. Dealer wanted to polish it and send him on his way. Total bullshit. KTM North America said they would take care of the situation but backed out. So now lawyers are involved. I love my 890 and fully expect I’ll have to deal with this stupid cam issue also. Also, go to a KTM dealer and ask any sales guy about the cam issue. They must be the most ignorant people in the industry because they claim to know nothing while 890’s are lined up in the shop for months while service managers do everything to deny fixing the issue and accuse the customer of not servicing the air filter causing dust ingestion. If you are considering an 890, don’t. I’ve been riding ktms since 2008 and currently have a 300 and 500 along with the 890. Unless KTM steps up and addresses the issue, I will never buy another KTM again.
what would dust ingestion have to do with cam wear??? If your motor ingests dust and that dust ends up at the cams then you'd have a much bigger problem than they have anyway hahaha
@@Blockbuster2033 If dust gets into the airstream to the combustion chamber, it also will hit the top side of the open intake valves, which retract into the cam when they close.
@@DrQuiza yeah I know how a motor works. But there is the valve guide, which has very little clearance, and there is the valve seal, which obviously seals. Also there is a massive amount of airstream into the cylinder and the fuel injectors which keep the intake valves free of any oil, so they won't become sticky. If the motor ingests dust and that ends up at the cams, then there is bigger problems than the cams. A more likely cause for the cam wear is an insufficient heat treatment or surface coating. Or it's simply an oiling problem.
Well said. I’m in the same boat with my 2020 790R and don’t ever want to deal with that KTM shitshow (after-sales service) again. I’ll happily accept other potential shortcomings on other manufacturers’ bikes as long as they solidly stand behind their product. As far as I know, my money they received from me did not disappear partially and they were able to rest assured the dollars were in their coffers safely.
The real test is how they hold up after a year or so. As much as I love KTM, they aren't exactly known for trouble free, uber reliable adventure bikes from their Austrian built lines so will China be any different? Little to no trouble from any of my enduro model KTM's for many years now.
I have a 790, replaced the cams myself at 8k miles. Based on what I've seen, I don't expect any help at all from KTM since I can change oil myself and do my own valve adjustments. I was at the Touratech rally and did not even bother riding any KTM demos. I don't plan on ever putting my hard earned money into another KTM after they have crapped on us like this. If not for the Facebook failed camshafts group getting so much attention I don't think they would address this at all. Plenty of money to spend on MotoGP though.
Consumer knowledge of the soft camshaft issue on these bikes has spread like wildfire. At this point no amount of PR or paid feel good videos is going to make it go away. KTM needs to issue a recall and replace the camshafts. Every day they put off the inevitable, the more damage is done to the brand
Very true, Ktm would know what the cause of the issue is as they have been manufacturing bikes for a long time. Even Lyndon Poskitt has come out and said he knows why the cams are lunching themselves, so why wouldn’t a bloke that sells shit loads of bikes for you know what’s going on
They performed very well. They do not hold up after about 10k miles. It's sad to say that we have a couple serious issues, like camshafts failing, that the company is doing nothing about.
@Chrisbirch please help the consumer that you market too put a little leverage on KTM, to help the consumer resolve the Camshaft wear issues. i fell in love with the KTM 790 due to your ridieing videos and I'm sure there are many others that feel the same. Please help us.
@@pigeonpallz1733 I’d like to think he would. He seems like a solid dude. But actions speak louder than words this is a big issue I have a 10k$ Machine sitting here and cannot get parts or help. It’s only been 11k miles. This is serious.
@@garettkemp4927 there is help coming. Ktm are aware and im told there will be an announcement soon. This sort of thing is so far above any influence I may have.
Thank you for the review. Lots of negativity in the comments. I’m a new KTM owner. I bought a 2024 790 Adv in March 2024 and have 4000 trouble free miles. After I bought the bike KTM doubled the warranty from 2 years to 4 years provided I get required service at the dealership. That’s a big deal and not indicative of a company that ignores its customers. I do not believe KTM would double their unlimited mileage warranty if they thought they are going to have excessive failures. Maybe I’m naive, but I’m going to enjoy riding this bike and not worry about other people’s past issues.
I’m happy to hear about your four year warranty; that is indeed a good thing of KTM to do. I received one year with my U.S. 2020 790R and that’s it. If I hadn’t bought my own (expensive) third-party service contract (kind of like a warranty policy) I would have been left to hope that the people on the phone - the ones who kept telling me that I wasn’t supposed to call them because only dealers are allowed to speak with KTM directly - pay the full amount because … it’s the right thing to do. I’m done with KTM for ever.
In looks and sound department? Yeah nothing is and will ever be as good. But as an overall bike? Yeah ill take my "boring" AT any day ; Both awesome bikes cheers
Been with Ktm for 4/5 years, and the 890 being the 4th ktm, I feel this will be the last one as this Camshaft Issue has really disappointed me, especially the fact that KTM expects the consumer to pick up the bill.
I agree. Obviously a western manufacturer can set up his line and quality control anywhere. The people on working on the line ultimately don't matter to the end product, the quality control does. But the Chinese government and ethos is the real problem.
The chinese government couldn't care less about KTM in that regard,. It's just business. Nobody in the ccp cares a crap about Motorcycles in General. So your point it's really quite ridiculous. What do you have to say about Honda having their own manufacturing facility in China for the Automobile market?
I was recently asked what would I purchase today if in the market over my current 1090R. Honestly ... IDK. I'm intrigued with the 890, but It seems the current 790/890 platforms have similar on again/off again electrical issues similar to the earlier 1290's and the current cam issue has me take a serious pause.... and that's not so much the actual issue of the cams but KTM's approach to essentially hide from it. I had a couple warranty issues (fuel pump and assembly caused oil leak) early on my 1090 and wouldn't say that KTM went out of their way to take care of me ... the customer. My bike spent the first month of ownership parked at the dealer. Not a good look. If KTM would sort out their QC and reliability issues they would hands down own the ADV market!
I really like the 790/890 platform and don't care it's made in China. I own an 1190R and like it, and would like the new tech,.. but,.. not willing to introduce new "gremlins" into the bike I like to ride. The camshaft issue in the 790 is not something I'm willing to deal with and KTM seems to be hanging customers out to dry. Not a good thing at all.
Hi Chris, Thank you for sharing your thoughts on the KTM model made in China. However, many of us in the riding community still have concerns about the overall build quality of these machines. With KTM relocating the assembly line to China, we can only hope for improved production control and better build quality. Moreover, this move raises concerns that the company's primary incentive might be reducing production costs, which could impact the quality further.
Thanks for addressing the camshaft issue, mine is in the shop waiting to see if KTM will cover mine. The issue with mine isn't grooves, it's pitting, which is odd. That being said I have a 390 Adv that I love and just bought an EXC-F, but seeing so many other stories about the camshafts do many me wary of KTMs a bit.
Please please more, I'm having trouble deciding between the 690 enduro R and the 790 adventure non r. If it was an R I would probably buy it cuz I like trail riding.
if you want to do trail riding, do yourself the favor and get the 690. I love my '19 790R, but except you are as skilled as birchie, it is just too havy for serious offroading. I recently bought a 690 because of excacly that reason (me running out of skill) and you really notice the 50 kg difference in weight. Other than the lack of wind protection, the 690 is better imho. So if I could go back to 2019, I would try to convince myself to just get the 690 and take the extra mony the 790 cost me (compared to a690 back then) to upgrade the 690 with a rally fairing (wich is what i am now planing to do with my 690).
I put the deposit down for the 2024 790 Adventure R. 318000 baht and 30000 for the Tech package. Still do not know what is different to the Adventure only 8000 baht price difference. Will be dissapointed if it is only to have a R @the end 😅. Will go look when I'm back in Thailand on the 16th of September.
What tyre pressures do you run off road Chris? I just put some Motoz on my Suzuki V-strom 800, and 30f 32r psi didn’t do too well in that Riverhead Forrest clay today you know all too well 😜
Excellent review Chris🎉, the quality coming from China is good . I have had dealings with Chinese products and have a huge success with them in my area of work. Cheers.
Thanks for your videos! I own a 2023 890 ADV R because of them. Keep it up! One question, because I am considering it myself. Are you going down 1 tooth at the engine sprocket? Less milage but more control?
I’m obviously not Chris. A lot of us go down one tooth on the countershaft. Some also add teeth on the rear sprocket though I haven’t, personally. The 790 needs it more than the 890 but it’s still valuable on the 890 if you plan to ride off road much.
@@rainr8699 yes, it makes a big improvement. For me the fuel consumption went down on the road, as the gearing is more suited to New Zealand’s winding roads and low speed limits.
@ChrisBirchNZ that is helpful. Thank you. With any luck, I'll see you on one of your So No To Slow classes in the next year. Until then, keep doing what you do, your an inspiration to many of us ADV rides, new and experienced.
Chris, with Adam Rieman and Pol Tarres, you are my hero, really. But there is a serious problem with the design of this engine. 23 and 24 models are already affected. Other (tech) TH-camrs are jumping on the bandwagon now. Before they were afraid to end up not being invited by KTM anymore, but there are some smaller ones, who will investigate this issue. MCN already had their approach. Mark my words, this is going to end in a clusterfuck we´ve never seen before.
The rear side pods are black compared to the 890 in the USA at least. Also, I guess KTM R2R is KTM ready to race? Do they come with Mitas tyres in China?
If it would cure the top end problem that would be a nice thing. No one wants to buy a bike and find out that the cam is gonna wear and it’s out of warranty.
I have no doubts the bike will be 100% KTM made in China. If I was in the KTM market this is the best bang for buck. It's not that long ago that the original 790 had everyone going woo hoo, I would be in like a shot. Here's one for you, and that fella Adam. Beijing to Mattighofen on your new 790's. Seriously, that would be some trip.
The problem with ktm adv bikes is the customer service and waranty excecution, all bikes and brands are susceptible to fail, ktm needs to improove its service. I own a 2023 890 Adv and I am planing to sell it because of that, the bike is awsome, but the brand is way to far for what you can expect.
Very cool. I've slowly been turning my 2023 790 into an R. I'll probably never have the upgraded suspension on there because of the cost, but a friend did give me his Nordon 901 suspension which is a nice inbetween upgrade at least.
Not a present KTM owner, although I did have a 300 like 20 years ago. I think CF Moto is the big winner in this partnership. I'm pretty sure the mt450 is going to eat the 390 adventure for lunch.
I love my 2020 KTM 790 Adv R! Cams were fine at 33k miles one finger follower DLC showed signs of wear on the bottom facing the shim. I got the checking valve process to just over 4 hours. Im going to get a new bike today and its between the 990 Duke or a 24' yami mt09 im getting the mt09. I really wanted to get the Duke but I cant do the high stressed cams anymore.... If Hotcams would make cams for the 790/890 they would be a fortune 500 company right now!!
No issues with these being built in China so long as the retail price is reflecting of this and quality is the same as the other Chinese brands building bikes based around the same platform because in all honesty they have stepped up hugely on that. I personally prefer the type of power out the 790 for my average skill set so hope they do well with this. I'm a 690 guy....not sure how much longer I'll be able to get 690s so need to start thinking about alternatives already.
Another KTM camshaft issue here. 790 Adv R 2019. 29.000km. Good maintenance (oil+filter each 7k km (motorex cross power), KTM prefilter…) and fucked up.
Thanks for your qualification at the end. That is important. The Chinese have a reputation to start high quality and then deteriorate over time to cut costs
Sorry, lost my trust on this engine config. Lots of negativity out there regarding camshafts. Would rather spend more $ on the 1290 and a more proven V-Twin.
I know the KTMs are very capable bikes, and I'm sure their customers appreciate the newly extended warranty. But I just can't be bothered with the hassle of an unreliable machine. Just get your quality control sorted, and get it right 1st time straight out of the factory. The Japanese can do it, which is why I'll be sticking with my Tenere 700, and will probably buy another one in a couple of years time.
such a shame that the brand is affecting itself instead of doing the right thing and running a recall - my sxf450 is a 2013 and still solid, my exc500 has been bulletproof too, the 790 was to be my adv but i will be waiting at least 1-2 years to watch the story play out
It would be nice when CFMOTO MTX 800x gets to the market and see that it is the same bike with different desing ! So.. why I say it? It's because this KTM 790 R is made in the same factory in China! And is owned by KTM in more of 56% !! That's why there is any difference.!! The only one is about price! Simply!!
Why are the 100s of skilled Austrians that invented and built this brand, losing their jobs and livelihood so China can have it handed to them, not enough to reject this thing?
It’s all good until you need Cams before Tires… hopefully the Chinese get full control of the engine and fix the LC8c… seems to not eat cams in the IBEX… can you comment on that?
Oh my sure as hell ktm is aware of that issue for long time already. Its just becoming too big and popular issue, they cant swipe it under the rug and pretend there's no problem anymore,.it probably started affecting sales( i hope). They know recall will cost them millions. Camshafts production also cant keep up with demand. Just like i said long time ago, they will do something only when itll start affecting perriers wallet....
You're clearly quite young! 'Dog' for us older folk was a reference to really bad machinery! I do agree though dogs are awesome & never deserved this reference Personally I think we should reference cats...they suck! 💪
Finally black tank again...our blue one on 890R 23 is scratch like hell...On R model should be deffinietaly some resistant finish...I dont like the blue tank...previous black was much better
I bought the 790 knowing its a chinese made bike. China is also making the Iphone now. With many parts being manufactured in China for all motorcycles. People don't realize how much China is in everything they drive.
If KTM wants to produce Chinese bikes for smaller markets then more power to them. I want my KTM produced in Austria for the American market and will not buy a Chinese bike of any make.
Chris…. Mate…. Don’t be a sell out and support KTM while we all know there is a massive issue with Cams in the LC8 engines and KTM remain silent on the issue…. Now this little vid in the midst of it…. Not hard to put two and two together and see KTM and trying to do some damage control here.. so why not address the issue directly rather than getting an ambassador to big up the very products that are suffering the issue because sale are diving aggressively both on the new and secondhand market…. Poor Form this if you ask me
I have no doubt KTM can design the greatest motorcycle on the market. I have been buying them for over twenty years. However when you pay a premium for a motorcycle and have a group of people that are not known for quality especially in the motorcycle industry built your expensive motorcycle you are Not getting what you payed for and it shows with all the reliability issues KTM now is struggling with. I recently sold my 2023 890 because I started having issues with it and figured get out while I’m ahead. I purchased a Yamaha Tenere in its place. I also own a 2020 ktm 350 excf that has been great. But now KTm wants to send all there dirt bikes to India. I don’t get it. The Austria people are great at building motorcycles. Why remove the people that have been there all these years with all there experience to start with people that are new at it. Moving forward Yamaha will be my go to motorcycle. Thanks for all the great years KTM but no thanks on the current.
The create 790R for china and europe has the normal 790?!?!? That KTM boss crazy hands down.(I really like the man btw, no diddy) They should sell this 2 us 🤦♂️ and give china the normal One . Come on Man..
I’ve only ever owned ktm, Husqvarna bikes. I won’t be buying another with them using Chinese slave labour and not fit for purpose engines. I’m now on a 24 Tenere 700 Extreme and loving it.
ktm have whimped out--- birch is sponsered by ktm, free bikes from ktm, of course he gives them good reviews----charging austrlan prices for chinese made bikes---it should be half this price
Why can Yamaha build the t7 in France and Japan but cheap skate KTM have to build in third world slave labour countries? It’s all about the dollar with KTM. BTW I own a KTM, if they keep doing what they’re doing it will be my last!
Giving the "quality" of the Austrian produced bikes, it should not be a problem for the Chinese to reach that level. After four KTM's I am giving up on KTM now and selling my 890R. It is a shame because when everything is fine, KTM's are a joy to ride and especially the versatility of the 890R is in my eyes unmatched.. But since reliability comes first for me, I will switch to a Japanese bike
Yeh but what else is there ? T7 , they become boring quickly (72 hp) Transalp , you won't want to venture off road at all Suzuki , you want be able to pick it up if it falls over. Ducati , they make really good road bikes. BMW, ok if you only need a 200km range. Its easily the best bike out there even if they have had a couple of cam issues
@@glenobrien727 You are right. When everything is good, the 890 Adventure R is unbeatable in its class. But what use is all that greatness if the bike is unreliable?. I am thinking of changing to the Suzuki. Have been a Suzuki Mechanic for 5 years back in the days and I know how reliable and mechanically healthy this bikes are, even if they are not as thrilling as a KTM
I’m just here for the comments, they lost me as a customer after I bought my 24 ktm 300xcw. Not long after I bought it they released the article about moving some parts of production to China and India 🎤🫳 I’m out
Here’s what I know about the cam shaft issue. It’s definitely a thing. It’s effecting some, not all of the 790 and 890’s. KTM has added 24 months on to the warranty on these bikes as long as they are correctly serviced. In New Zealand (where I live) KTM is covering the parts bill for affected bikes outside the warranty. I’ve spoken with the contacts I have at the factory and there is a statement or similar coming soon. I don’t know what, that’s way way above my pay grade 😂. That’s all the information I have, I’ve got nothing else for you guys. I’m off for a ride now!
@@ChrisBirchNZ thanks for your kind answer
Thanks for addressing this head on, Chris. Fully understood and noted this is not your problem to solve. That being said, as you are one of the most popular KTM brand influencers, I believe such acknowledgement was to some extent awaited by the fans and is also a sign of respect to them (vs. any hiding, neglecting the issue or plainly ignoring it, as some might be tempted to do). Thanks, good stuff! Now it's KTMs time to own up and clean up the mess they made.
I was one of the many formerly brand loyal riders affected by the 790 camshaft issue and it taught me that KTM’s customer service is spotty, poorly lead, poorly designed (the after-sales service), and at best frustrating to use and navigate through for the customer.
In a fair situation some of the good money I gave them should have come back to me for all the lost time riding (six month) and hours and hours of writing, calling, and driving to a dealership for face to face meetings with local dealer employees who also felt left behind by the corporate giant.
The complete experience taught me that this part of KTM, the way they chose to treat customers after securing payment, is broken and I chose not to deal with them any longer.
I wonder if the company will contact me to apologize for putting me through such troubles when I’ve done everything right?
Are other manufacturers any better? After 20 years of buying only KTMs, I’m about to find out first hand.
Edit to add: I’ve never heard from KTM about them extending their warranty by 24 months in the USA. If they did, they’ve done a fabulous job of hiding it from me.
Just like ktm, don’t admit it and make a for,Al recall. Make owners gravel and fight for what should be a warrantied issue.
The issue is indeed only affected some LC8s. I know an enduro tour guide with his 890R clocking over 110k km with only maintenance
Chris, I don’t doubt your honesty for a second, you’re awesome, and I have no issue whatsoever with chinese products per se. But the LC8c has a serious camshaft problem and sadly for a brand-loyalist like me ktm are letting themselves, their ambassadors and their customers down by having the owners pick up the pieces…
I own a 250 xc and a 690 enduro. Would love an 890 but no way will I roll the dice with the failure rate. Will likely end up with a T-7. Not as fun but good enough and reliable
@@RGS85exactly what I did for the same reason
@@RGS85 I had an 890R but I sold it because of this. I’m at a loss what to replace it with, as there’s no bike in the class I like better…
How many cam problems are there in reality. I get the feeling it’s quite rare and people are blowing this out of proportion? Does anyone have any real stats? Cheers
KTM does have the stats. And they are yet to release any information to squash all these 'rumors'.@@glossblack1098
Maybe the camshafts won’t be failing on this Chinese version
They sure will
I have more confidence on the CFmoto manufacturing than the KTM😊
@@MotorDanko Exactly, CF moto has bran new factory on green field, and all the affected engines were builded in Austria :D :D
Look into cfmoto, i know from 2 bikes over 100.000km (look them up on youtube), no problems, i think the chinese are doing better.
@@Erez84 Curious about your take. Based on what have you come to that conclusion?
I have a 2023 KTM 890R. Since I’ve had it, I know 3 guys with camshaft failures on 890’s. One friend has had a nightmare experience with the local dealer claiming he was on a which hunt. He showed me the cams at 8k miles and it was grooved bad. Dealer wanted to polish it and send him on his way. Total bullshit. KTM North America said they would take care of the situation but backed out. So now lawyers are involved. I love my 890 and fully expect I’ll have to deal with this stupid cam issue also. Also, go to a KTM dealer and ask any sales guy about the cam issue. They must be the most ignorant people in the industry because they claim to know nothing while 890’s are lined up in the shop for months while service managers do everything to deny fixing the issue and accuse the customer of not servicing the air filter causing dust ingestion. If you are considering an 890, don’t. I’ve been riding ktms since 2008 and currently have a 300 and 500 along with the 890. Unless KTM steps up and addresses the issue, I will never buy another KTM again.
what would dust ingestion have to do with cam wear??? If your motor ingests dust and that dust ends up at the cams then you'd have a much bigger problem than they have anyway hahaha
@@Blockbuster2033 If dust gets into the airstream to the combustion chamber, it also will hit the top side of the open intake valves, which retract into the cam when they close.
@@DrQuiza yeah I know how a motor works. But there is the valve guide, which has very little clearance, and there is the valve seal, which obviously seals. Also there is a massive amount of airstream into the cylinder and the fuel injectors which keep the intake valves free of any oil, so they won't become sticky. If the motor ingests dust and that ends up at the cams, then there is bigger problems than the cams.
A more likely cause for the cam wear is an insufficient heat treatment or surface coating. Or it's simply an oiling problem.
Well said. I’m in the same boat with my 2020 790R and don’t ever want to deal with that KTM shitshow (after-sales service) again. I’ll happily accept other potential shortcomings on other manufacturers’ bikes as long as they solidly stand behind their product. As far as I know, my money they received from me did not disappear partially and they were able to rest assured the dollars were in their coffers safely.
我想请问一下。在1290 adv 上面有凸轮轴问题吗，来自中国的疑问
The real test is how they hold up after a year or so. As much as I love KTM, they aren't exactly known for trouble free, uber reliable adventure bikes from their Austrian built lines so will China be any different? Little to no trouble from any of my enduro model KTM's for many years now.
They should be better. They couldn't be worse.
I have a 790, replaced the cams myself at 8k miles. Based on what I've seen, I don't expect any help at all from KTM since I can change oil myself and do my own valve adjustments. I was at the Touratech rally and did not even bother riding any KTM demos. I don't plan on ever putting my hard earned money into another KTM after they have crapped on us like this. If not for the Facebook failed camshafts group getting so much attention I don't think they would address this at all. Plenty of money to spend on MotoGP though.
Well they're down now and abandanoning gp. It's their own doing.
Consumer knowledge of the soft camshaft issue on these bikes has spread like wildfire. At this point no amount of PR or paid feel good videos is going to make it go away. KTM needs to issue a recall and replace the camshafts. Every day they put off the inevitable, the more damage is done to the brand
Very true, Ktm would know what the cause of the issue is as they have been manufacturing bikes for a long time. Even Lyndon Poskitt has come out and said he knows why the cams are lunching themselves, so why wouldn’t a bloke that sells shit loads of bikes for you know what’s going on
They performed very well. They do not hold up after about 10k miles. It's sad to say that we have a couple serious issues, like camshafts failing, that the company is doing nothing about.
@Chrisbirch please help the consumer that you market too put a little leverage on KTM, to help the consumer resolve the Camshaft wear issues. i fell in love with the KTM 790 due to your ridieing videos and I'm sure there are many others that feel the same. Please help us.
Exactly!
He stated in the video that he works for KTM.
Mr. Birch will help if he can I think.
@@pigeonpallz1733 I’d like to think he would. He seems like a solid dude. But actions speak louder than words this is a big issue I have a 10k$ Machine sitting here and cannot get parts or help. It’s only been 11k miles. This is serious.
@@garettkemp4927 there is help coming. Ktm are aware and im told there will be an announcement soon. This sort of thing is so far above any influence I may have.
Thank you for the review.
Lots of negativity in the comments. I’m a new KTM owner. I bought a 2024 790 Adv in March 2024 and have 4000 trouble free miles. After I bought the bike KTM doubled the warranty from 2 years to 4 years provided I get required service at the dealership. That’s a big deal and not indicative of a company that ignores its customers. I do not believe KTM would double their unlimited mileage warranty if they thought they are going to have excessive failures. Maybe I’m naive, but I’m going to enjoy riding this bike and not worry about other people’s past issues.
@@vtrack1963 👍 don’t forget to let us go how it goes.
well the story seems to be 16-22k so you have plenty of time not to worry - it is a thing, it is not fiction
I’m happy to hear about your four year warranty; that is indeed a good thing of KTM to do. I received one year with my U.S. 2020 790R and that’s it. If I hadn’t bought my own (expensive) third-party service contract (kind of like a warranty policy) I would have been left to hope that the people on the phone - the ones who kept telling me that I wasn’t supposed to call them because only dealers are allowed to speak with KTM directly - pay the full amount because … it’s the right thing to do.
I’m done with KTM for ever.
When you get the valve lash checked please make sure to ask for photos of all the cam lobes. This is the only way to make sure you don't have it.
Nothing beats the old 950s/990s.
In looks and sound department? Yeah nothing is and will ever be as good.
But as an overall bike? Yeah ill take my "boring" AT any day ;
Both awesome bikes cheers
Been with Ktm for 4/5 years, and the 890 being the 4th ktm, I feel this will be the last one as this Camshaft Issue has really disappointed me, especially the fact that KTM expects the consumer to pick up the bill.
It’s the Chinese government and Chinese ethos I have issue with.
After riding KTM for the last 28 years - my next bike will be a Honda.
I agree. Obviously a western manufacturer can set up his line and quality control anywhere. The people on working on the line ultimately don't matter to the end product, the quality control does. But the Chinese government and ethos is the real problem.
The chinese government couldn't care less about KTM in that regard,. It's just business. Nobody in the ccp cares a crap about Motorcycles in General. So your point it's really quite ridiculous.
What do you have to say about Honda having their own manufacturing facility in China for the Automobile market?
@ China fakes everything.
th-cam.com/users/shortsMcz8wqIkefw?si=oiZX-7yirOipnQqI
I was recently asked what would I purchase today if in the market over my current 1090R. Honestly ... IDK. I'm intrigued with the 890, but It seems the current 790/890 platforms have similar on again/off again electrical issues similar to the earlier 1290's and the current cam issue has me take a serious pause.... and that's not so much the actual issue of the cams but KTM's approach to essentially hide from it. I had a couple warranty issues (fuel pump and assembly caused oil leak) early on my 1090 and wouldn't say that KTM went out of their way to take care of me ... the customer. My bike spent the first month of ownership parked at the dealer. Not a good look. If KTM would sort out their QC and reliability issues they would hands down own the ADV market!
I really like the 790/890 platform and don't care it's made in China. I own an 1190R and like it, and would like the new tech,.. but,.. not willing to introduce new "gremlins" into the bike I like to ride. The camshaft issue in the 790 is not something I'm willing to deal with and KTM seems to be hanging customers out to dry. Not a good thing at all.
How did the fuel pump, which is in the fuel tank, cause an oil leak? -1190adv
Hope they fixed the camshaft issues that the 790/890/901 have been running into.
Hi Chris,
Thank you for sharing your thoughts on the KTM model made in China. However, many of us in the riding community still have concerns about the overall build quality of these machines. With KTM relocating the assembly line to China, we can only hope for improved production control and better build quality.
Moreover, this move raises concerns that the company's primary incentive might be reducing production costs, which could impact the quality further.
As long as KTM charges to unlock electronics already part of the bike, I won't be buying another one.
Yes, this is bullshit
Oh stop. If you don’t want to pay for the extras then don’t. Just like I didn’t.
Thanks for addressing the camshaft issue, mine is in the shop waiting to see if KTM will cover mine. The issue with mine isn't grooves, it's pitting, which is odd. That being said I have a 390 Adv that I love and just bought an EXC-F, but seeing so many other stories about the camshafts do many me wary of KTMs a bit.
So theres a 790 r coming? Am i outa the loop cant find a release date for the usa market
Would not be surprised that CF Moto will own a percentage of ktm in the future
They already do - a small percentage of Pierer Mobility (parent company of KTM)
CF Moto is way to small to own KTM!!!
@@rostyslavkozhushko5841 CF Moto sell more bikes and SxS each year then KTM do. And that doesn't count KTM's that they manufacture on behalf of KTM.
Please please more, I'm having trouble deciding between the 690 enduro R and the 790 adventure non r. If it was an R I would probably buy it cuz I like trail riding.
if you want to do trail riding, do yourself the favor and get the 690. I love my '19 790R, but except you are as skilled as birchie, it is just too havy for serious offroading. I recently bought a 690 because of excacly that reason (me running out of skill) and you really notice the 50 kg difference in weight. Other than the lack of wind protection, the 690 is better imho. So if I could go back to 2019, I would try to convince myself to just get the 690 and take the extra mony the 790 cost me (compared to a690 back then) to upgrade the 690 with a rally fairing (wich is what i am now planing to do with my 690).
This is the R version with XPLOR suspension? I haven't seen the new 790 R version on sale. Isn't this a new model for 2025?
It’s a model for China market only to the best of my knowledge
I put the deposit down for the 2024 790 Adventure R. 318000 baht and 30000 for the Tech package. Still do not know what is different to the Adventure only 8000 baht price difference. Will be dissapointed if it is only to have a R @the end 😅. Will go look when I'm back in Thailand on the 16th of September.
Have they dropped the price compared to the Austrian made models?
What tyre pressures do you run off road Chris? I just put some Motoz on my Suzuki V-strom 800, and 30f 32r psi didn’t do too well in that Riverhead Forrest clay today you know all too well 😜
Yeah I'm confused, I thought from all the other videos they will only manufacture the S and not the R in the 790.
Excellent review Chris🎉, the quality coming from China is good . I have had dealings with Chinese products and have a huge success with them in my area of work. Cheers.
Thanks for your videos! I own a 2023 890 ADV R because of them. Keep it up!
One question, because I am considering it myself. Are you going down 1 tooth at the engine sprocket? Less milage but more control?
I’m obviously not Chris. A lot of us go down one tooth on the countershaft. Some also add teeth on the rear sprocket though I haven’t, personally. The 790 needs it more than the 890 but it’s still valuable on the 890 if you plan to ride off road much.
@@CurtisBrandt☝️+1
@CurtisBrandt Thanks, that's what I've been seeing a lot of off-road 890s doing. Again, I appreciate the answer "not Chris"
@@rainr8699 yes, it makes a big improvement. For me the fuel consumption went down on the road, as the gearing is more suited to New Zealand’s winding roads and low speed limits.
@ChrisBirchNZ that is helpful. Thank you. With any luck, I'll see you on one of your So No To Slow classes in the next year. Until then, keep doing what you do, your an inspiration to many of us ADV rides, new and experienced.
Chris, with Adam Rieman and Pol Tarres, you are my hero, really. But there is a serious problem with the design of this engine. 23 and 24 models are already affected. Other (tech) TH-camrs are jumping on the bandwagon now. Before they were afraid to end up not being invited by KTM anymore, but there are some smaller ones, who will investigate this issue. MCN already had their approach. Mark my words, this is going to end in a clusterfuck we´ve never seen before.
The rear side pods are black compared to the 890 in the USA at least. Also, I guess KTM R2R is KTM ready to race? Do they come with Mitas tyres in China?
Most countries other than USA come with Mitas
Thought they were only assembled in China at CF Moto and the parts are made in Austria?
If it would cure the top end problem that would be a nice thing. No one wants to buy a bike and find out that the cam is gonna wear and it’s out of warranty.
hi Chris what gearing do you run on a Ktm 1090 adventure R I always struggle to lift the front wheel when off road
I have no doubts the bike will be 100% KTM made in China. If I was in the KTM market this is the best bang for buck. It's not that long ago that the original 790 had everyone going woo hoo, I would be in like a shot.
Here's one for you, and that fella Adam. Beijing to Mattighofen on your new 790's.
Seriously, that would be some trip.
The problem with ktm adv bikes is the customer service and waranty excecution, all bikes and brands are susceptible to fail, ktm needs to improove its service. I own a 2023 890 Adv and I am planing to sell it because of that, the bike is awsome, but the brand is way to far for what you can
expect.
我想请问一下。在1290 adv 上面有凸轮轴问题吗，来自中国的疑问
Very cool. I've slowly been turning my 2023 790 into an R. I'll probably never have the upgraded suspension on there because of the cost, but a friend did give me his Nordon 901 suspension which is a nice inbetween upgrade at least.
Are these bikes going to be available outside of China?
Not a present KTM owner, although I did have a 300 like 20 years ago. I think CF Moto is the big winner in this partnership. I'm pretty sure the mt450 is going to eat the 390 adventure for lunch.
I love my 2020 KTM 790 Adv R! Cams were fine at 33k miles one finger follower DLC showed signs of wear on the bottom facing the shim. I got the checking valve process to just over 4 hours. Im going to get a new bike today and its between the 990 Duke or a 24' yami mt09 im getting the mt09. I really wanted to get the Duke but I cant do the high stressed cams anymore.... If Hotcams would make cams for the 790/890 they would be a fortune 500 company right now!!
Are higher gears ratio different? Long 6 would help a lot
What’s the track at the beginning of the video?
Are they shutting down their manufacturing plant in India?
No issues with these being built in China so long as the retail price is reflecting of this and quality is the same as the other Chinese brands building bikes based around the same platform because in all honesty they have stepped up hugely on that. I personally prefer the type of power out the 790 for my average skill set so hope they do well with this.
I'm a 690 guy....not sure how much longer I'll be able to get 690s so need to start thinking about alternatives already.
After shooting the video, it was due a camshaft replacement…
Another KTM camshaft issue here. 790 Adv R 2019. 29.000km. Good maintenance (oil+filter each 7k km (motorex cross power), KTM prefilter…) and fucked up.
Thanks for your qualification at the end. That is important. The Chinese have a reputation to start high quality and then deteriorate over time to cut costs
Sorry, lost my trust on this engine config. Lots of negativity out there regarding camshafts. Would rather spend more $ on the 1290 and a more proven V-Twin.
I know the KTMs are very capable bikes, and I'm sure their customers appreciate the newly extended warranty. But I just can't be bothered with the hassle of an unreliable machine. Just get your quality control sorted, and get it right 1st time straight out of the factory. The Japanese can do it, which is why I'll be sticking with my Tenere 700, and will probably buy another one in a couple of years time.
I trust more on this KTM made by CF-MOTO than the one I got from Austria....
such a shame that the brand is affecting itself instead of doing the right thing and running a recall - my sxf450 is a 2013 and still solid, my exc500 has been bulletproof too, the 790 was to be my adv but i will be waiting at least 1-2 years to watch the story play out
It would be nice when CFMOTO MTX 800x gets to the market and see that it is the same bike with different desing ! So.. why I say it?
It's because this KTM 790 R is made in the same factory in China! And is owned by KTM in more of 56% !! That's why there is any difference.!!
The only one is about price! Simply!!
Oh my, is the whole world gonna produce everything in China one day? What a sad trajectory.... But thanks a lot for the honest review Chris!
Other 790 890 etc are also made in China by cf moto . Different branding only.
I received my front axle puller and it works great. Love the, So No To Slow, engraving. Just saying.
Why are the 100s of skilled Austrians that invented and built this brand, losing their jobs and livelihood so China can have it handed to them, not enough to reject this thing?
Not only KTM, some BMW engines are made in China as well, such as some GS motorcycle engines.
not many big ktms on the trails these days mite be more if these are cheap.
690 890 1190 990 million parts were made in China, if you can not handle it, you are out of choices, and 790 is a less expensive option, I loving it
It’s all good until you need Cams before Tires… hopefully the Chinese get full control of the engine and fix the LC8c… seems to not eat cams in the IBEX… can you comment on that?
Hopefully my ibex is immune to this issue!
With KTM, manufacturing can only improve :)
Thanks for the honest video. Cheers from Brasil
I love my Honda with it's 37 year old working camshaft 😉
Well I love KTM bike, but decided to get rid of it because of the lack of garantee/after-sale. I went to Honda 😉
Oh my sure as hell ktm is aware of that issue for long time already.
Its just becoming too big and popular issue, they cant swipe it under the rug and pretend there's no problem anymore,.it probably started affecting sales( i hope).
They know recall will cost them millions. Camshafts production also cant keep up with demand.
Just like i said long time ago, they will do something only when itll start affecting perriers wallet....
I have one and love it. Just hoping I win the camshaft lottery
Don't know why you had to pull dogs into this with your last words but thanks for the great clip anyway!
You're clearly quite young! 'Dog' for us older folk was a reference to really bad machinery! I do agree though dogs are awesome & never deserved this reference
Personally I think we should reference cats...they suck! 💪
Show mandou bem 👋👋🙌🇧🇷
Hp?
So, China only concerned about licensing when it’s one of their companies.
i love ktm i dont like same price tag it cost them half the price to make it. be intersting cfmoto bring out 800mtx. i still love my 1190r.
Still waiting for a KTM 390 enduro R… Come on KTM make something happen.
Finally black tank again...our blue one on 890R 23 is scratch like hell...On R model should be deffinietaly some resistant finish...I dont like the blue tank...previous black was much better
Sales will do the talking, you would be a fool to buy one. Ps I’ve already replaced cams on my 790r.
I bought the 790 knowing its a chinese made bike. China is also making the Iphone now. With many parts being manufactured in China for all motorcycles. People don't realize how much China is in everything they drive.
If KTM wants to produce Chinese bikes for smaller markets then more power to them. I want my KTM produced in Austria for the American market and will not buy a Chinese bike of any make.
@@superdukerandy I was told that’s exactly the plan. 👍
At this point, bold of you to assume that made in Austria makes it a defacto "better" bike.
Chris…. Mate…. Don’t be a sell out and support KTM while we all know there is a massive issue with Cams in the LC8 engines and KTM remain silent on the issue…. Now this little vid in the midst of it…. Not hard to put two and two together and see KTM and trying to do some damage control here.. so why not address the issue directly rather than getting an ambassador to big up the very products that are suffering the issue because sale are diving aggressively both on the new and secondhand market…. Poor Form this if you ask me
I have no doubt KTM can design the greatest motorcycle on the market. I have been buying them for over twenty years.
However when you pay a premium for a motorcycle and have a group of people that are not known for quality especially in the motorcycle industry built your expensive motorcycle you are Not getting what you payed for and it shows with all the reliability issues KTM now is struggling with. I recently sold my 2023 890 because I started having issues with it and figured get out while I’m ahead. I purchased a Yamaha Tenere in its place. I also own a 2020 ktm 350 excf that has been great.
But now KTm wants to send all there dirt bikes to India. I don’t get it. The Austria people are great at building motorcycles. Why remove the people that have been there all these years with all there experience to start with people that are new at it.
Moving forward Yamaha will be my go to motorcycle.
Thanks for all the great years KTM but no thanks on the current.
Taking so much heat on the internet they're pulling out the shills!
The create 790R for china and europe has the normal 790?!?!?
That KTM boss crazy hands down.(I really like the man btw, no diddy)
They should sell this 2 us 🤦♂️ and give china the normal One . Come on Man..
I’ve only ever owned ktm, Husqvarna bikes. I won’t be buying another with them using Chinese slave labour and not fit for purpose engines. I’m now on a 24 Tenere 700 Extreme and loving it.
ktm have whimped out--- birch is sponsered by ktm, free bikes from ktm, of course he gives them good reviews----charging austrlan prices for chinese made bikes---it should be half this price
Maybe it's better because it is made in China. KTM have had a few fails lately. No more than bmw but disappointing nonetheless
Why can Yamaha build the t7 in France and Japan but cheap skate KTM have to build in third world slave labour countries? It’s all about the dollar with KTM. BTW I own a KTM, if they keep doing what they’re doing it will be my last!
I own an original 2017 superadventure 1290s,the beast, best bike in the world ❤❤
More excuse to visit India and Thailand. No badge change.
Giving the "quality" of the Austrian produced bikes, it should not be a problem for the Chinese to reach that level. After four KTM's I am giving up on KTM now and selling my 890R. It is a shame because when everything is fine, KTM's are a joy to ride and especially the versatility of the 890R is in my eyes unmatched.. But since reliability comes first for me, I will switch to a Japanese bike
Yeh but what else is there ?
T7 , they become boring quickly (72 hp)
Transalp , you won't want to venture off road at all
Suzuki , you want be able to pick it up if it falls over.
Ducati , they make really good road bikes.
BMW, ok if you only need a 200km range.
Its easily the best bike out there even if they have had a couple of cam issues
@@glenobrien727 You are right. When everything is good, the 890 Adventure R is unbeatable in its class. But what use is all that greatness if the bike is unreliable?. I am thinking of changing to the Suzuki. Have been a Suzuki Mechanic for 5 years back in the days and I know how reliable and mechanically healthy this bikes are, even if they are not as thrilling as a KTM
Squeaky boots 😊
1090R best still...2017.
The devil is in the longevity, that’s where the QC is exposed with Chinese manufacturing
wtf? I own a CFMOTO, no problems whatsoever
Sanitise yourself now please...
This entire class of bike is questionable at best. Throw in KTM reliability and you have a real turd of a bike with either the 790 or 890.
KTM is not what they used to be.
so fake chinese is better than real chinese?
I’m just here for the comments, they lost me as a customer after I bought my 24 ktm 300xcw.
Not long after I bought it they released the article about moving some parts of production to China and India 🎤🫳 I’m out
Yes, I had a 19 790R and sold it too.