Holy cow. I have been in a plateau for two years on bench and tried this method today and have never felt better benching. I have very long arms and this helped so much that I felt the need to make my first TH-cam comment.
I'm a swimmer that got into lifting a few years back, so when JM said 'take a stroke' instead of 'rep' I had an out-of-body experience. Great coach, and always great content from you guys. Much love.
This makes a ton of sense. Great tips in this one. Math nitpick: if you push at 45 degrees, the force wouldn't be half; it would be about .71 (more precisely, the square root of 2 divided by 2).
Unrack the bar, hold the bar in a fully extended position. Regardless of arch, the only way to bench in a truly straight vertical line would be to bring to bar down to the shoulders (which is bad). Because no matter how good your arch is, your shoulder will ALWAYS be the fulcrum of the lever (your arm) and will NEVER move. If you are bringing it down to your belly and straight up vertically (again, regardless of arch), it will put strain on your shoulders because now your wrists will be lower than your shoulders, making it almost like a front raise. JM knows this... He is a world class bench presser. Watch his presses, they aren't exactly vertical. Neither was this demonstration. His point here is that by making the angle AS VERTICAL AS POSSIBLE, you maximize your mechanical leverages and you decrease the bar travel distance.
Exactly. Anyone who understands basic biomechanics and physics would know that pushing straight up means excess strain on the shoulders, because the weight is now INFRONT of the shoulder joint. This is why every single elite lifter on the planet benches with a slight arch motion backwards as they go up. The only exception is those few individuals with so much mobility that they truly can get their shoulder joint directly under the bottom position.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen a bench form video where someone says you want to have a straight bar path, and this actually makes a lot of sense. This has changed my entire perspective on benching
This is insanely fucking brilliant. The info, the way JM explains it, the EliteFTS production. I hope anyone that is buying gym kit is supporting and giving back to Dave. 👍🏼
Love the series and JM is always a pleasure to listen to and watch doing his thing. While his explanations make a tremendous amount of sense, his way of benching contradicts everything that is taught and talked about normally with the bench Press, straight bar path, no leg drive... I personally think, that the only way we will be able to know for sure which approach is more effective is if Zack will be able to break his PR while following JMs guidelines, ultimately this should prove which approach is actually the best. In my opinion at least.
I was wondering as well...I think in the end it all boils down to coaching cues where you try to build a mental image in your athlete that will translate in body dynamics, which are part unconscious and part conscious but informed by proprioception et enteroception. In summary, a way to transform raw mathematical mechanics into organic feelings and actions. Instead of saying leg drive, I think JM emphasizing an intention of rolling the skin of your back on the bench, which eventually translates to the same stabilization. Same with the bar path, by definition the bar eventually has to go back above the shoulder joint at some point, but it might be a matter of explicitly cueing a path that leads there (hook, J curve, diagonal, whatever depending on your school) versus saying "just press as straight as you can from the lowest chest contact as you can" and eventually the bar has to reach that point above the glenohumeral joint, even if you didn't explicitly ask for it. Long winded point but that's how I make sense of all these conflicting cues from various schools/coaches who all displayed demonstrable feats...
@@anthonymarconi761 I completely agree that sometimes different cues could be leading to the exact same outcome, it all depends on the coach's approach. However if we look at some data analysis on Bench Press bar path (the graph that almost every strength athlete has seen) we see that the more advanced the lifter is and the heavier the load, the more of a horizontal bar path there is. And I agree with you that, no matter where you touch the bar, it will always end up right over the shoulder joint where it started, but it seems JM is trying to minimize horizontal travel of the bar. if not eliminated completely, by increasing the arch, also the wider the grip on bar the less horizontal travel is needed. Also his approach to Leg drive is, again, based on physics, trying to "bench with your legs" and creating a force that transfers up into the shins, then back into the hips, then into the spine, then travel again upwards into the arms, doesnt make a lot of sense to him, i think he feels like the legs are there to stabilize you, but are not actively involved in the lift, on a side note my Floor Press max and my bench max have always been the same, no matter how much I try to utilize my legs on bench, so either there is something to it, or I just suck at utilizing my legs. All n all it is extremely interesting to see how different coaches, utilizing different approaches and techniques can get different athletes to an elite level. Always loving these videos and how they make one think.
@@joseph13990 totally agree with you. In the end much rests on the interaction of the coach and the athlete, and the physical and mental make-up of said athlete. There's exact maths, physics on one side...then there's fuzzy biology - not derogatory, I'm biologist myself 😅 - and psychology on the other side. It's like in bodybuilding, you have the super high volume lower weight camp, and the limited volume super heavy camp (I'm simplifying, but you know what I mean), and both philosophies produced super successful specimens... 🤷🏻♂️
@@anthonymarconi761 exactly, Mike Mentzer and Dorian Yates fall on one side and Tom Platz on the other. I believe all programs produce results, some more efficient than others, but it's the mental and recovery aspect that has the most affect on the outcome, and I think an even greater factor is whether or not the athlete is actually enjoying the program and process.
JM really is the Bob Ross of weight lifting 🥲 love watching and listening to everything he says. I feel like JM is there for when you feel kinda down and Dave is there when you're ready to rip heads off
Did you see JM look at the camera? In other words, “Did you see what I just explained?” It all makes sense!!! Awesome video with critical explanations along the way!!! Thanks for sharing your technique, JM!!!
JM, thank you for sharing your knowledge! This is great advice along with your grip advice. Anyone who doubts JM’s advice can keep on doing what you think is best. JM has a wealth of knowledge and is sharing it for free. I am thankful!
Im a relative newbie to the gym. Just crossed the year mark of training! Love the big three, super fun! There is lots of information about bench on the internet, and a lot of it promotes a diagonal bar path. In my own experience it never worked for me, loss of wrist position, lack of power and chest activation. Glad a brilliant bencher agrees with me on this point! Straight (almost) has always felt more natural and strong for me!
Wow this guy is actually amazing at teaching. It's great how explains the why of the techniques. Have seen so many how to bench video and this is the best. Thanks!
Best bench presser and teacher around, not to mention just a wee bit of experience in this guy!!!love this shit!!! Road to 500lb bench, using all these gems
I feel like when you move diagonally the leg drive becomes important, so that maybe why most people prefer a diagonal pattern. When you move in a straight path leg drive becomes less important. Julius Maddox, JHo, and some of the most elite raw benchers of all time preach diagonally, take it for what its worth I guess.
It's irrelevant, unless you can arch like a 110 lb female. At a certain point, it's just not practical for most of us. His math is also nonsensical. You don't lose half of your total bench press strength by pressing at a 45 degree angle, because it doesn't take equal energy to move weight horizontally and vertically. Sure, in theory, a straight bar path is more efficient. But this doesn't take biomechanics into account. It's just physics. But we're not machines. We weren't designed specifically to bench press. For 99% of us, pressing up and back is 100% necessary and very efficient. Some of these guys think they've got it all figured out. Take it all with a grain of salt.
J curve is more ideal as he started to say gravity is only vertical but unlike what he said since it is only vertical energy is not lost wasted by moving horizontally. We move horizontally so that we can get more muscle tissue collapsing in on itself then you want to bench back toward the rack in a j fashion so you can get as much of the lift done as possible before reaching our biomechanical sticking point
JM: If you can lift a bar with 500 and do it at a 45 degree angle, how much goes up? Me: Square root two! Physics is finally useful! JM: HALF Me: Dammit
Pressing straight up was the first tip I got from the old coach on our little powerlifting team back before the internet world. He said 'pressing it backward is for OHP...'
I would make a point that potentially you are moving towards a more advantageous leverage by arching the bar towards your face. changing your power output potential. I think straight press may be better with a shirt but I don’t train equipped so I can’t really argue that side
I get that increasing the arch is good for pressing more weight, but if your main goal is hypertrophy and size as opposed to 1 rep max, is it really necessary?
If the bar path is moving at 45°, that doesn't mean the lifter is pushing at 45°. If they had pushed at 45°, with any decent weight, the bar would've flown horizontally and hit their chin before moving up an inch.
True But my point is that ANY forces ( regardless of manufactured examples) that do not push UP DIRECTLY AGAINST GRAVITY are lost in the adventure of lifting the bar. Exact forces are not needed nor are formulae to understand what I'm saying. Were you actually confused or are you just seeking a nit to pick?
@@j.m.blakley4126 As I understand your message, it's that one should make effort to get in position that allows for the straightest path possible. My addition was that in some cases (such as lack of mobility for ex.) attempting to press straight up may be compromising more important stuff. And horizontal bar movement acts only against bar's inertia, not gravity; so it is not as much force "lost" while the gain may be worth it for some. ✌
JM I think your teaching methods are awesome, I have one question What do you think If a person has a history of shoulder problems and they also have very powerful triceps can they or should they narrow their grip on the bench press to avoid more shoulder problems and bring their triceps into the lift more or should I still take the maximum grip width allowed in powerlifting. FYI: I'm only 5"6 and 190 lbs
the concept is correct and everything makes sense the math is jusr a little bit off. if u produce a 500 pound force at an angle 45° to the horizontal the magnitude of that force transfered straight up into the bar (the vertical component or the y component) is 500 sin(45°) = 353.55 pounds of force produced straight up
JM, you said on the podcast a while ago that speed work didn't work. But here you say that you still need to move the bar faster. Does that mean that you have changed your mind on speed work or that at least it has its place?
There's a difference between moving the bar with intent and moving it as fast as possible and actual speed work. He probably means that you want to move the bar as fast as possible during your regular bench work.
From JM's video on fixing your grip on the bar: @JM7thlevel Can this same technique for grip placement be used on the overhead press to make a more stable pressing platform? Or will it not work because the angle of the press is different than the bench press?
That manipulation was to shield the wrosts from some stress. It should work fine on overhead. But thevsame " elbows flaring caveat" must be countered. Im not familiar enough with the overhead press as a max lift to say for certain. Maybe a compromise? ( I did military press 405 for a triple once. Full range to the neck. Nothing excessive, but for a young kid it was a real kick. It is a fond menory.
If ur top position is directly above ur down position then the weight would not rest above ur shoulders, which is not a stable position. U won't be able to hold the weight at top bcoz it's not stable. That's why the barbell has to move up and back from ur chest or belly.
1:56 I disagree. Just do a decline press instead of exaggerating the arch so much that you're trying to get a perfectly vertical bar path. I've yet to see any competitive lifter with a vertical bar path. The only time it's truly vertical is on a decline press. Your anatomy is better suited to an angled bar path.
Yeah, what he says only makes sense if you can arch to such an extreme degree that your shoulder joint lines up directly under your natural touch point. It's nonsense.
Yes and a to big arch is not really good if your goal is to build muscle, because your range of motion is to short. But for powerlifting is a big arch very good.
If the bar ends up over your shoulders it is an invitation for the elbows to flare and that is bad, bad, bad for them. Ill do a video someday. Next, if you are serious about DEVELOPMENT as opposed to strength, you should eschew the bench press in favor of deep wide DUMBELL WORK. And lastly, the wheelhouse I competed in WAS INDEED powerlifting. But ( at least) some of what I say applies to all forms of bench because it is good mechanics with a penchant for safety.
This is always really cool. Except the body isn't a physics experiment. It's not a math problem. It's not a machine. *No one* presses in a straight fucking line because that's not the strongest position -- that would be directly over the shoulder.
I just look at the worlds top raw benchers right now and don’t see them doing the same extreme arch and they also seem to push back towards their faces some as well. These are all 600 + benchers and some of them are in the 700’s
success may not equal correction, but with as many lifters as we have in the world, that big of a subject pool, the best technique will rise to the top. Although it is not the main driver in the bench, the shoulders do play a role, which is also why a J curve allows them to be in a more advantageous position. Using JM's math here on the angle of pushing, the triceps should be completely vertical at lockout. As he repeatedly states, any horizontal movement is wasted movement. So, unless your shoulder are 100% directly under your touch point, then you need to flex the humerus to have your triceps vertical for optimal pushing. The optimal leverage for all the muscles involved in the bench press does not produce a vertical line.
The technique JM is teaching is more for geared lifters. Furthermore, the guy that is learning has benched more raw than JM has in competition (468lbs).
"if what you say is true, you will have gained my trust" i was thinking this too cause i've seen too many other reputable coaches teach the up and back way of pressing with the moment arm and all that.
Pressing in a straight line is not more for equipped lifting. Most shirts (at least modern ones) favor pushing back slightly towards the rack. And I’m 99.9% confident that JM has benched more than 468 raw. Maybe not in a competition, but the dude was benching near 700 pounds back when shirts provided very little carryover
That math makes zero sense. He's acting like it takes equal amounts of energy to move the bar horizontally as it does vertically. It doesn't. You can't say a 45 degree angle will cut your total 90 degree bench press max weight in half.
I don't know of anyone that benches in a 45 degree angle. But instead of using math, let's try trigonometry. If you have 600 lbs of weight and you are benching with an angle of 45 degrees, the resulting force vector to thrust the weight up would be 848 lbs (600/sin 45). Now, if you bench with 0 degree angle the same amount of weight, the resulting force vector would be equal to 600 lbs (600/sin 90). In other words, you have to generate way more force at an angle than straight up. Notice that I said force but I neglected the acceleration aspect (but at this point, you get the idea).
I had the same issue and I realized it was because I was set up on my toes rather than the balls of my feet. I fixed that and felt a lot more stable and powerful
If you’re going to arch your back so much, why not just use a decline bench instead? It gives you the same chest slope/ angle, but allows a greater range of motion so that you can bend your arms better.
Nice explanation but there are things that make no sense. First so should press like decline or straight up (you see and her that on every other comp bench press vid). thats just not the perfect path for the human anatomy. Second why should you try lower your touchpoint if your goal is to get your shoulders under the touch point. That would mean to make a strong arch and then to raise your touch point higher to your face.
If U don't feel it in you chest then that's ok. It's powerlifting. Not body building. The whole idea of body building is to feel it in your chest. The idea of lifting weights or powerlifting is getting the most amount of weight up in the most efficient manner
I had to bench with my "feet flat" at the USPF Ohio State meet. So I turned my feet directly out to the sides 90° and sort of benched from my insteps! No loss of power bc thetevis no leg drive! I benched 600 even that day and became the first guy from Ohio to do so. It was very uncomfortable, but rules is rules.
the way JM explains everything is so clear and makes a lot of sense
Please be sarcastic please be sarcastic please be sarcastic
Holy cow. I have been in a plateau for two years on bench and tried this method today and have never felt better benching. I have very long arms and this helped so much that I felt the need to make my first TH-cam comment.
I'm a swimmer that got into lifting a few years back, so when JM said 'take a stroke' instead of 'rep' I had an out-of-body experience. Great coach, and always great content from you guys. Much love.
This makes a ton of sense. Great tips in this one.
Math nitpick: if you push at 45 degrees, the force wouldn't be half; it would be about .71 (more precisely, the square root of 2 divided by 2).
Was gonna say that! sin 45° = cos 45° = 1/√2
🤓
Unrack the bar, hold the bar in a fully extended position. Regardless of arch, the only way to bench in a truly straight vertical line would be to bring to bar down to the shoulders (which is bad). Because no matter how good your arch is, your shoulder will ALWAYS be the fulcrum of the lever (your arm) and will NEVER move. If you are bringing it down to your belly and straight up vertically (again, regardless of arch), it will put strain on your shoulders because now your wrists will be lower than your shoulders, making it almost like a front raise.
JM knows this... He is a world class bench presser. Watch his presses, they aren't exactly vertical. Neither was this demonstration. His point here is that by making the angle AS VERTICAL AS POSSIBLE, you maximize your mechanical leverages and you decrease the bar travel distance.
Shit you broke that down pretty clear too
I agree when I push up vertically I always hurt my shoulder
Exactly. Anyone who understands basic biomechanics and physics would know that pushing straight up means excess strain on the shoulders, because the weight is now INFRONT of the shoulder joint. This is why every single elite lifter on the planet benches with a slight arch motion backwards as they go up. The only exception is those few individuals with so much mobility that they truly can get their shoulder joint directly under the bottom position.
JM got that Bob Ross energy and I'm here for all of it
I don’t think I’ve ever seen a bench form video where someone says you want to have a straight bar path, and this actually makes a lot of sense. This has changed my entire perspective on benching
This is pure gold. I really like JM's personality and how excellent he is at explaining things.
I have watched, God only knows how many bench videos. And this is definitely one of the best.
This is insanely fucking brilliant. The info, the way JM explains it, the EliteFTS production.
I hope anyone that is buying gym kit is supporting and giving back to Dave. 👍🏼
love the way that JM talk, calm and confidence. The third arch I don't think works in IPF meet anymore
JM is fkin awesome n it’s nuts how chill the man comes off, fr an underrated legend right here 💯💯💯
Love the series and JM is always a pleasure to listen to and watch doing his thing.
While his explanations make a tremendous amount of sense, his way of benching contradicts everything that is taught and talked about normally with the bench Press, straight bar path, no leg drive...
I personally think, that the only way we will be able to know for sure which approach is more effective is if Zack will be able to break his PR while following JMs guidelines, ultimately this should prove which approach is actually the best. In my opinion at least.
I was wondering as well...I think in the end it all boils down to coaching cues where you try to build a mental image in your athlete that will translate in body dynamics, which are part unconscious and part conscious but informed by proprioception et enteroception. In summary, a way to transform raw mathematical mechanics into organic feelings and actions. Instead of saying leg drive, I think JM emphasizing an intention of rolling the skin of your back on the bench, which eventually translates to the same stabilization. Same with the bar path, by definition the bar eventually has to go back above the shoulder joint at some point, but it might be a matter of explicitly cueing a path that leads there (hook, J curve, diagonal, whatever depending on your school) versus saying "just press as straight as you can from the lowest chest contact as you can" and eventually the bar has to reach that point above the glenohumeral joint, even if you didn't explicitly ask for it. Long winded point but that's how I make sense of all these conflicting cues from various schools/coaches who all displayed demonstrable feats...
@@anthonymarconi761 I completely agree that sometimes different cues could be leading to the exact same outcome, it all depends on the coach's approach. However if we look at some data analysis on Bench Press bar path (the graph that almost every strength athlete has seen) we see that the more advanced the lifter is and the heavier the load, the more of a horizontal bar path there is. And I agree with you that, no matter where you touch the bar, it will always end up right over the shoulder joint where it started, but it seems JM is trying to minimize horizontal travel of the bar. if not eliminated completely, by increasing the arch, also the wider the grip on bar the less horizontal travel is needed. Also his approach to Leg drive is, again, based on physics, trying to "bench with your legs" and creating a force that transfers up into the shins, then back into the hips, then into the spine, then travel again upwards into the arms, doesnt make a lot of sense to him, i think he feels like the legs are there to stabilize you, but are not actively involved in the lift, on a side note my Floor Press max and my bench max have always been the same, no matter how much I try to utilize my legs on bench, so either there is something to it, or I just suck at utilizing my legs. All n all it is extremely interesting to see how different coaches, utilizing different approaches and techniques can get different athletes to an elite level. Always loving these videos and how they make one think.
n(sample size)=1
@@joseph13990 totally agree with you. In the end much rests on the interaction of the coach and the athlete, and the physical and mental make-up of said athlete. There's exact maths, physics on one side...then there's fuzzy biology - not derogatory, I'm biologist myself 😅 - and psychology on the other side. It's like in bodybuilding, you have the super high volume lower weight camp, and the limited volume super heavy camp (I'm simplifying, but you know what I mean), and both philosophies produced super successful specimens... 🤷🏻♂️
@@anthonymarconi761 exactly, Mike Mentzer and Dorian Yates fall on one side and Tom Platz on the other. I believe all programs produce results, some more efficient than others, but it's the mental and recovery aspect that has the most affect on the outcome, and I think an even greater factor is whether or not the athlete is actually enjoying the program and process.
JM really is the Bob Ross of weight lifting 🥲 love watching and listening to everything he says. I feel like JM is there for when you feel kinda down and Dave is there when you're ready to rip heads off
Did you see JM look at the camera? In other words, “Did you see what I just explained?”
It all makes sense!!! Awesome video with critical explanations along the way!!! Thanks for sharing your technique, JM!!!
JM, thank you for sharing your knowledge! This is great advice along with your grip advice. Anyone who doubts JM’s advice can keep on doing what you think is best. JM has a wealth of knowledge and is sharing it for free. I am thankful!
That was the best explanation I’ve ever heard, not about bench. About anything
Yes, this should see every teacher in the world, then he knows how to teach.😅
When a monk and a strength physiologist combined
This is the man . jm
I was pushing diagonally. Needed this.
Im a relative newbie to the gym. Just crossed the year mark of training! Love the big three, super fun! There is lots of information about bench on the internet, and a lot of it promotes a diagonal bar path. In my own experience it never worked for me, loss of wrist position, lack of power and chest activation. Glad a brilliant bencher agrees with me on this point! Straight (almost) has always felt more natural and strong for me!
Always magical seeing so much brain power and physical strength in one person.
Wow this guy is actually amazing at teaching. It's great how explains the why of the techniques. Have seen so many how to bench video and this is the best. Thanks!
Brilliant man no wonder he's the best
Sir jm. Such a soft spoken man.
Best bench presser and teacher around, not to mention just a wee bit of experience in this guy!!!love this shit!!! Road to 500lb bench, using all these gems
Can't wait to incorporate this on my bench press tomorrow, thank you so much Sir!
I can Listen to JM all day!
MIND BLOWN 🤯. wow I’m gonna use this right away.
Man idk what to believe, everyone except westside guys promote a diagonal bar path
I am confued as well. But what he explained makes sense to me that straight bar path is more effective than the tradiional j bar path
True i dont know
I feel like when you move diagonally the leg drive becomes important, so that maybe why most people prefer a diagonal pattern. When you move in a straight path leg drive becomes less important. Julius Maddox, JHo, and some of the most elite raw benchers of all time preach diagonally, take it for what its worth I guess.
It's irrelevant, unless you can arch like a 110 lb female. At a certain point, it's just not practical for most of us.
His math is also nonsensical. You don't lose half of your total bench press strength by pressing at a 45 degree angle, because it doesn't take equal energy to move weight horizontally and vertically.
Sure, in theory, a straight bar path is more efficient. But this doesn't take biomechanics into account. It's just physics. But we're not machines. We weren't designed specifically to bench press.
For 99% of us, pressing up and back is 100% necessary and very efficient. Some of these guys think they've got it all figured out. Take it all with a grain of salt.
J curve is more ideal as he started to say gravity is only vertical but unlike what he said since it is only vertical energy is not lost wasted by moving horizontally. We move horizontally so that we can get more muscle tissue collapsing in on itself then you want to bench back toward the rack in a j fashion so you can get as much of the lift done as possible before reaching our biomechanical sticking point
The inventor of the JM press
My names JM and I really enjoy this JM great tips and you can feel the experience he has. Subscribed thank you
Thank you so much!! This clear things up for me 👍
“Uh just throw it somewhere” hahaha
Woooow this was the simplest breakdown of bench I’ve seen ,
This is amazing content! Can’t wait to utilize this on my next bench routine
Outstanding coaching. Just great.
JM explains things so well
I’m afraid to answer any of his questions
My man Bisenberg dropping big facts
JM: If you can lift a bar with 500 and do it at a 45 degree angle, how much goes up?
Me: Square root two! Physics is finally useful!
JM: HALF
Me: Dammit
😂😂 I was thinking the same thing
The way this man explain stuff Is marvelous. Crystal clear. A true art.
I’ve been stuck at 215x5-6 to 225x3 range for over a year I’ll try this.
This is mind blowing. I’ve always been taught to press at angle, the bar pressing up and toward my head then straight up.
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Like that ^
You learned the correct way
Pressing straight up was the first tip I got from the old coach on our little powerlifting team back before the internet world. He said 'pressing it backward is for OHP...'
I would make a point that potentially you are moving towards a more advantageous leverage by arching the bar towards your face. changing your power output potential. I think straight press may be better with a shirt but I don’t train equipped so I can’t really argue that side
Good teaching thanks for the lesson
JM da man
loved it
I have a closer grip because im stronger that way and it also prevent shoulder issues closer is always better than wide grip
Why are these videos not popular
This is crazy smart shit...wow
I'm amazed by this kind of stuff
Marine Mike
Can you make a video on incline bench to make it easier
I get that increasing the arch is good for pressing more weight, but if your main goal is hypertrophy and size as opposed to 1 rep max, is it really necessary?
Excellent question
Athlean X brought me here and I'm SO glad.
How?
JM is the man!!👍👌👏💪💪😎
could somebody please explain 6:12 to me? 500 is more than 490. Why can't we do 500 if we have 500 lbs. at our disposal?
500up bs 500 down is a math equasion. 500 take away 500 leaves what? They cancel each other.
@@j.m.blakley4126 Thanks J.M.
@@TurnTheStoveOnBlaze What is erroneous about this my man?
Because of gravity my man. 500lbs of weight with 500lbs of force will not move it up because you are fighting against gravity as well.
If the bar path is moving at 45°, that doesn't mean the lifter is pushing at 45°. If they had pushed at 45°, with any decent weight, the bar would've flown horizontally and hit their chin before moving up an inch.
True
But my point is that ANY forces ( regardless of manufactured examples) that do not push UP DIRECTLY AGAINST GRAVITY are lost in the adventure of lifting the bar. Exact forces are not needed nor are formulae to understand what I'm saying. Were you actually confused or are you just seeking a nit to pick?
@@j.m.blakley4126 As I understand your message, it's that one should make effort to get in position that allows for the straightest path possible. My addition was that in some cases (such as lack of mobility for ex.) attempting to press straight up may be compromising more important stuff. And horizontal bar movement acts only against bar's inertia, not gravity; so it is not as much force "lost" while the gain may be worth it for some. ✌
JM I think your teaching methods are awesome, I have one question What do you think If a person has a history of shoulder problems and they also have very powerful triceps can they or should they narrow their grip on the bench press to avoid more shoulder problems and bring their triceps into the lift more or should I still take the maximum grip width allowed in powerlifting. FYI: I'm only 5"6 and 190 lbs
2:11 "but what if you could get enough of an arch so that your shoulders came underneath that touch point"
Zack: mhm (???)
This guy sounds like my dad. Always teaching
I appreciate the physics 👍
Thank you for such a good explanation. But could you explain more about why people can press more on decline?
Shorter range of motion, can be tighter, and more activation from the pecs is most likely why.
The Bob Ross of Powerlifting
Awesome!!!
PRO BRO, GOOD POINTS 💪👏
This is deep I love it I sub
is it optimal benching as low as possible? Wouldn't it then put all the pressure on the triceps?
JM missed talking about the elbow angle?
JM is the Bob Ross of powerlifting.
the concept is correct and everything makes sense the math is jusr a little bit off. if u produce a 500 pound force at an angle 45° to the horizontal the magnitude of that force transfered straight up into the bar (the vertical component or the y component) is 500 sin(45°) = 353.55 pounds of force produced straight up
he said it was half in the video which is 250 which is incorrect
JM, you said on the podcast a while ago that speed work didn't work. But here you say that you still need to move the bar faster. Does that mean that you have changed your mind on speed work or that at least it has its place?
There's a difference between moving the bar with intent and moving it as fast as possible and actual speed work. He probably means that you want to move the bar as fast as possible during your regular bench work.
@@jasperm.8093 but moving the bar as fast as possible for your regular benching wouldnt speed work aid in your regular benching?
Speed work is bullshit
You are amazing coach, you explain everything to perfection..💯🔥💯🔥👍
Thx
From JM's video on fixing your grip on the bar: @JM7thlevel Can this same technique for grip placement be used on the overhead press to make a more stable pressing platform? Or will it not work because the angle of the press is different than the bench press?
That manipulation was to shield the wrosts from some stress. It should work fine on overhead. But thevsame " elbows flaring caveat" must be countered. Im not familiar enough with the overhead press as a max lift to say for certain. Maybe a compromise? ( I did military press 405 for a triple once. Full range to the neck. Nothing excessive, but for a young kid it was a real kick. It is a fond menory.
@@j.m.blakley4126 thank you for the thoughtful reply. It is much appreciated!
Now I see why tearing the pecs and the shoulder rotary cuffs is common. We've all been bench pressing wrong. Flat bench is horrible.
If ur top position is directly above ur down position then the weight would not rest above ur shoulders, which is not a stable position. U won't be able to hold the weight at top bcoz it's not stable. That's why the barbell has to move up and back from ur chest or belly.
1:56 I disagree. Just do a decline press instead of exaggerating the arch so much that you're trying to get a perfectly vertical bar path. I've yet to see any competitive lifter with a vertical bar path. The only time it's truly vertical is on a decline press. Your anatomy is better suited to an angled bar path.
Jm be sounding like the dad I never had... shiiet
But the main argument for diagonal bar path is that at the top and back, its over the shoulder join directly
Yeah, what he says only makes sense if you can arch to such an extreme degree that your shoulder joint lines up directly under your natural touch point. It's nonsense.
Yes and a to big arch is not really good if your goal is to build muscle, because your range of motion is to short. But for powerlifting is a big arch very good.
@@elgringo2852 well, these guys are powerlifters, so...
If the bar ends up over your shoulders it is an invitation for the elbows to flare and that is bad, bad, bad for them. Ill do a video someday. Next, if you are serious about DEVELOPMENT as opposed to strength, you should eschew the bench press in favor of deep wide DUMBELL WORK. And lastly, the wheelhouse I competed in WAS INDEED powerlifting. But ( at least) some of what I say applies to all forms of bench because it is good mechanics with a penchant for safety.
How TF is this class for free on TH-cam.
If you push straight up wouldn't the bar be in front of the shoulder and the forearms will be tilted.
Note to self, stop watching JM bench vids on legday
Great points, but it's agree to disagree basis.
Listening to him I can hear Louie but it's in layman's terms. I get lost listening to Louie.
Great point
@@yanwain9454 🤣😂
This is always really cool. Except the body isn't a physics experiment. It's not a math problem. It's not a machine.
*No one* presses in a straight fucking line because that's not the strongest position -- that would be directly over the shoulder.
I always figured the "press up and back" is BS. It never made any sense to me. Just press straight up!
🤯🤯🤯
Learning how to bench with Walter White...
I just look at the worlds top raw benchers right now and don’t see them doing the same extreme arch and they also seem to push back towards their faces some as well. These are all 600 + benchers and some of them are in the 700’s
Success is NOT the arbiter of truth. See my YT channel for an explanation of why success does not equal correct.
Pushing towards the face feels more natural and powerful.
Exactly
success may not equal correction, but with as many lifters as we have in the world, that big of a subject pool, the best technique will rise to the top. Although it is not the main driver in the bench, the shoulders do play a role, which is also why a J curve allows them to be in a more advantageous position. Using JM's math here on the angle of pushing, the triceps should be completely vertical at lockout. As he repeatedly states, any horizontal movement is wasted movement. So, unless your shoulder are 100% directly under your touch point, then you need to flex the humerus to have your triceps vertical for optimal pushing. The optimal leverage for all the muscles involved in the bench press does not produce a vertical line.
@@DrAlexStrahle Nailed it. This is why you can press straight in a decline bench, shoulders are directly below the bar.
The technique JM is teaching is more for geared lifters.
Furthermore, the guy that is learning has benched more raw than JM has in competition (468lbs).
"if what you say is true, you will have gained my trust" i was thinking this too cause i've seen too many other reputable coaches teach the up and back way of pressing with the moment arm and all that.
It is for competitive lifters. It is just efficient.
Not at all, you need to press back aggressively in a shirt
Pressing in a straight line is not more for equipped lifting. Most shirts (at least modern ones) favor pushing back slightly towards the rack. And I’m 99.9% confident that JM has benched more than 468 raw. Maybe not in a competition, but the dude was benching near 700 pounds back when shirts provided very little carryover
@@davidmb3376 bang on.
That math makes zero sense. He's acting like it takes equal amounts of energy to move the bar horizontally as it does vertically. It doesn't. You can't say a 45 degree angle will cut your total 90 degree bench press max weight in half.
And what records do u have ?
@@themfnnitrorooster7619 haha don’t like physics 101?
I don't know of anyone that benches in a 45 degree angle. But instead of using math, let's try trigonometry. If you have 600 lbs of weight and you are benching with an angle of 45 degrees, the resulting force vector to thrust the weight up would be 848 lbs (600/sin 45). Now, if you bench with 0 degree angle the same amount of weight, the resulting force vector would be equal to 600 lbs (600/sin 90). In other words, you have to generate way more force at an angle than straight up. Notice that I said force but I neglected the acceleration aspect (but at this point, you get the idea).
You're trying to undermine the concept by attacking numbers he made up off the top of his head during a simple explanation lol
@@ADAPTATION7 Trigonometry is mathematics brother, mathematics plays into pretty much everything.
Anyone else feel like they lose some power with an extreme arch? Just something I have noticed for myself.
I agree. You are going to sacrifice leg drive for ROM when you arch this much.
Go flat footed if you can’t get power
There is no leg drive.
I had the same issue and I realized it was because I was set up on my toes rather than the balls of my feet. I fixed that and felt a lot more stable and powerful
If you’re going to arch your back so much, why not just use a decline bench instead? It gives you the same chest slope/ angle, but allows a greater range of motion so that you can bend your arms better.
They are training to put a bigger number in powerlifting meet
Playing devil’s advocate - if you’re lifting by yourself, how do you bail on decline barbell press. With the flat you can do the roll of shame.
Is it just me or was that guy shitting his pants ??
I think this video pertains to powerlifters mainly. I don’t think everyone should be arching like this. That’s just my opinion.
Ummm isn’t that arch bad for the back?
who benches with straight bar patch in 2020 raw? that is not equipted lifting. i disagree
Matt Wenning
Nice explanation but there are things that make no sense. First so should press like decline or straight up (you see and her that on every other comp bench press vid). thats just not the perfect path for the human anatomy. Second why should you try lower your touchpoint if your goal is to get your shoulders under the touch point. That would mean to make a strong arch and then to raise your touch point higher to your face.
If i don't go diagonally i don't feel it in my chest and it WRECKS my shoulders. I respect JM but this advice isn't for everyone 🤷🏼♂️
If U don't feel it in you chest then that's ok. It's powerlifting. Not body building. The whole idea of body building is to feel it in your chest. The idea of lifting weights or powerlifting is getting the most amount of weight up in the most efficient manner
I can bench about eeeerrrrr tree fiddy
He seems too calm all the time
Easier to get a big arch when you're on the balls of your feet. No way you can get that when your heels are on the ground.
I do
@@qpghostqp9551 prove it
I had to bench with my "feet flat" at the USPF Ohio State meet. So I turned my feet directly out to the sides 90° and sort of benched from my insteps! No loss of power bc thetevis no leg drive! I benched 600 even that day and became the first guy from Ohio to do so. It was very uncomfortable, but rules is rules.
Some of the biggest archers in powerlifting compete in the IPF/USAPL