It's a clever line, but it doesn't really address the pro-stadium argument. Nobody has ever claimed that a stadium will make its costs back in its own ticket sales and concessions, the claim is always that it will boost overall spending in the downtown as a whole, as sports fans book hotel rooms, eat dinner in a restaurant before the game, and go to a bar afterwards. A team owner can't benefit from the increase in spending in other downtown businesses (short of trying to own the entire downtown himself), but the city does, through business and sales taxes. As UTree pointed out, the numbers don't necessarily bear that line of logic out, but your quip is a total strawman argument.
Build something that makes money with your own money, or build something that makes you money using someone else's money... why would the owners build themselves when they can do it on someone else's dime? Old joke, old statement, whatever, it's wrong.
The Olympics are the biggest cautionary tale of building new stadiums. The stadiums only get used for those games and then decay afterwards. The 2004 Athens Olympics and 2016 Rio de Janeiro Olympics are perfect examples of that. Atlanta and London have made good use out of their Olympic venues since the conclusion of the games held in those cities.
@@Rockhound6165When the LA Colosseum was built, the Olympics was a very different beast. It was *amateur* athletic competition and didn't have as many athletes (and events) attending as modern Olympics do.
@@Rockhound6165It's the exception that proves the rule. It immediately became the football stadium for UCLA and USC. USC is still there. The list of professional sport franchises that have called it home at some point is a mile long. There's been at least a half dozen major renovations over the years. It's also now a historic landmark. Like Fenway or Lambeau it's become a part of the city. Very few stadiums will ever be able to say that.
As a Brit, this shit is insane. We had one example of a team moving in 2002 (Wimbledon FC to Milton Keynes Dons) and it was so controversial the FA (Football Association) practically banned it, with the Wimbledon fans forming a new team and are now playing in the same division as MK Dons!
America is just so massive that there's always some new real estate/untapped market to exploit for our greedy owners to hold a new or old city hostage with. And yet all this land wasn't even enough for Kroenke or the Glazers.
It really is like obvs some teams have moved like MK Dons or Arsenal (they moved from Woolwich Arsenal in South London where they got their name from to North London) But imagine someone trying to move a team like Aston Villa to Manchester looool people would throw riots
It's a bit hard to moče away when the team's name is (city name) + united/FC. Teams make a lot of money on merchandising, and the brand name itself has quite a lot of value
To be fair, the Bay Area has alot of people from somewhere else around the United States. I lived there and I remember thinking to myself, "This place sure has alot of Dallas Cowboys & Pittsburgh Steelers fans."
The use of the SimCity 3000 soundtrack -- specifically one of the songs that plays when you're building infrastructure like water pipes and power lines -- around the 3:45 mark when groundbreakings and construction are shown is right up my alley when it comes to letting sports and old vidya collide. Tree you beautiful yinzer bastard, you've nailed it again.
Because the big networks exist only because they have the in with the leagues and teams. They push THEIR narrative, not the players, fans, or the truth.
I know it’s not a new stadium, but all the renovations to Wrigley Field over the last decade have not cost taxpayers a dime. Considering the renovations cost about as much as an entire stadium, I think it deserves a mention
Or instead of fighting locals for creating their own viewing decks out of their homes, using that as a marketing gimmick. Ngl there’s things I’m gonna miss when I move out of Chicago. The sports culture is one of them.
This is why I like when they don't replace the stadiums in England that often. Next season there will be a Premier League team playing right in the heart of a neighborhood, with visiting fans having to go through someone's backyard to get to their seats. Would never fly in America and that's why it's so cool.
Tom Scott once said something to the effect of "England is the best at doing strange things for a long time simply for the fact that we've been doing things that way for a long time." Gives the place a character that's sorely missing or has even been beaten out of the US.
Luton do need a new ground though. Should give some extra capacity and meet PL standards. Power Court can not come soon enough. Everton is getting a new stadium, out on the waterfront, as they also could use some more capacity to generate more revenue, as Goodison is kind of crammed right now, with little room for expansion. But yeah, I think the teams owning their own stadiums helps to reduce teams moving from stadium to stadium every 25 years
Indeed. More people need to come to terms with this fact quicker rather than clutching their pearls in apparent shock when the truth gets a bit more obvious to spot.
As a Royals fan, the grift and pressure John Sherman the owner has put on the city for a new stadium has been tense. Fans are angry because the team is so bad, and in a state of rising inflation people don't want to pay taxes for a team that has a consistency in being bad. This year was supposed to be an evaluation season he said, a 60 win team, but instead he'll get a 40 win team if he's lucky.
As a fellow Kansas Citian I will be enraged if he gets a new stadium. If they were winning it would still piss me off, but he has the balls to ask for one when the Royals have only been competitive in 2 seasons the last 20+ years. Bunch of shit.
The park he showed at the beginning of the video is the perfect example. PNC Park did not increase Pittsburgh revenue AT ALL, and my yet to be born grandchildren will still be taxed to pay it off. Oh, and Pittsburghers voted against the stadium and said the Pirates could leave... the Mayor said we didn't know what we wanted and agreed we would pay for the stadium.
But Ive got to look at all these lunatics cry over student loans. "Socialism doesnt work!!!!" Through tax cuts, loopholes, military waste/overspending and catering to super pac donors by making deals (similar to the kinds of local bs deals like these stadium deals) we spend hundreds of billions or trillions ANNUALLY on socializing the people who already have all the money. The one time the govt was giving to everyone ELSE, giving to average people who are going to be pumping money, time and resources into the economy at large instead of hoarding it... and half the country throws a fit without knowing anything about the economy or how our taxes constantly get misused for things like this.
@kenfresno2125 Just curious: did the mayor or any of the politicians that voted in favor of using tax dollars for the stadium *get voted out of office?*
We're going through the same thing in Chicago. Now the Bears are trying to pit every suburb in Cook County against each other all for the "privilege" of hosting an NFL team.
They are looking outside of Crook County as well. Only Waukegan and A.H. are in Cook. Naperville and Aurora are firmly outside in DuPage and Kane Counties
After what happened in SD and with Spanos, this was the exact thing that pulled me into the VGK. Vegas built their team from scratch without local taxpayer money. That was so refreshing, and the fact they were good was just a bonus. This is exactly why I say to call their bluff. If a team threatens to move without taxpayer funds, let them. If they want taxpayer funds for your private venture (taxpayers that may not even be fans of your sport), then the city gets an ownership stake. This crap needs to stop. Hell the ownership deal of GB I can wholeheartedly get behind.
As a former Charger fan, I’m glad SD told Spanos to get fucked. San Diegans got tired of him waffling about to where they finally said, if you’re gonna go, go! The Knights are a good example of how a franchise should be runned with a competent owner and personnel. Kraft also privately funded Gillette stadium, same with the GSW owner and SF Giants ownership and Kroencke - for all his faults and he’s got plenty, did it too. And although I’m not a Packers fan, I love how it’s a communal ownership. I wish professional sports were like that but that’s dead and buried. Oakland finally had the balls to say No to Davis and Fisher. You’re absolutely right about how people need to start calling their bluff on owners. Ownership in SF (excluding the Niners) were able to publicly fund their stadiums, why can’t everyone else? It’s like the old adage: a rich man never gets rich spending his own money, he gets rich by getting others to spend it on him.
Or they should have a clause like the Ohio State Legislature did after the Cleveland Browns moved in the mid-90s which states that if you are an owner of a publicly subsidized stadium and you want to relocate your team that you have to first sell your team. This clause was actually effective many years later when the scumbag owner of the Columbus Crew try to hijack the city in an attempt to move the team to Austin Texas.
Billionaires and multi-multimillionaires who own sports franchises are a scourge to the sporting world. They're greedy bastards who expect full or nearly full public funding (from taxes paid by their hard working fans and or the unwitting tourists) for their shrines of competition with little personal out of pocket expense. Then when they get their stadiums, they stick it to their fans by raising up the prices for tickets and concessions! No thank you.
As a Panthers fan, thank you so much for that final clip to end the video. It's great to relive the moment that made 2022-23 the best season Florida has ever had as a franchise. Getting to watch Verhaeghe score that goal as my dad and I live streamed the game was truly special..
Me being in Virginia, sometimes I get bummed because we don't have a major sports team. However videos like this remind me that that might not be such a bad thing 🤷🏾♂️ Especially with what these other cities have to go through 😬
As someone who also lives in Virginia, I don’t think we should build a stadium cause the traffic on I-95 and I-495 would just get even worse than it is now.
All the more reason to either let a team like the Commanders stay in either Maryland or DC, or have their fancy new ownership prove that they'll pay for the whole thing themselves, something Dan Synder clearly had no interest in doing.
You mentioned the T-Mobile Center in Kansas City but forgot an important detail. Due to the city NOT being able to land an NBA or NHL franchise, they have a lot greater leeway in scheduling concerts and other events without having to try working around the primary tenant's home schedule. As a result, (and also being on the edge of an entertainment district), it's still a profitable arena after 15 years. The thing is, people WILL come into town for concerts, a monster truck show or the Big XII or NCAA basketball tournaments and stay the night and get a hotel room. Only a smattering of visiting team or out of town fans will when your local sports franchise hosts a home game.
It's weird that he opened the video with PNC Park for his commercial, but didn't actually mention how the team robbed Pittsburghers to build that stadium, and will still be robbing us for the next 30 years to pay it off.
I’ve been told by my parents that the moment you buy a new car it’s value starts to decrease. I think owners of sports teams think this same way too. That the moment their new digs open up they start to care less and less for it and quickly will demand for a new place.
As a European, the thought of losing your team to *another city* because they wanted to build a frickin stadium is ludicrous. I've always considered this practise insulting, like you have the fans giving their sweat, tears and paychecks for the team, and you just move house cause you wanted more sponsor money and for the home games to look better. No wonder USA fans aren't as passionate as Europeans for their teams, if your team can just decide on a whim to leave you, why even bother.
The worst part is that it can happen to anyone. I’m a fan of the KC Chiefs who are trying to win their 3rd straight Super Bowl. Our owner, however, wants a new stadium and despite the fact that we have a still nice and loud stadium (who boasts the world record for loudest crowd in human history) he still wants a new stadium and has threatened moving across a state border to do so.
This why it's annoying when people complain about the Packers selling "stocks." We know they're not actually stocks but this way fans get to help the costs to maintain Lambeau without having to inflict a new tax on green bay
People complain because they want that for THIER team - the Packers pretty much CANNOT move due to the ownership structure. The NFL made damn sure it couldn't happen twice, and this video proves they were very smart to do so. They've made SO MUCH money foisting their expenses onto the local governments over the decades.
Execpt they did inflict a new tax on Green Bay. For their major 200 million renovation which included the atrium, that was all funded by the taxpayers minus the money they made on the stock sale in the mid 1990's..A half cent tax was implemented on Brown County of which Green Bay is a part. However, that tax was approved by a referendum vote That tax was retired in 2015, YEARS ahead of schedule. Why? There was provision in the referendum that ALL the money from the tax goes to Brown County for them to use as they saw fit which is what allowed them to pay off the bonds early and have plenty of money left over to invest back into the local economy. The State of Wisconsin loved the deal because they did not have to pay a single cent and it was left to Green Bay and Brown County, so they were more than happy to stay out of the entire deal and let Brown County have full authority. The Packers used all the new revenue from Lambeau to pay for all future renovations and create a reserve fund of a half a billion dollars which allowed them to operate during the pandemic. That Lambeau Field renovation was a rare success
@@chriskay1449 Another fun benefit of that Brown County sales tax was being able to enter a lottery with other Brown Co. residents for tickets to games. You'd still have to pay for the tickets if you won the lottery, but it was a good way to be able to buy face value tickets without having to wait your whole life in the season ticket line.
Oh god, as someone trying to get into media, what you said at 6:20 is 100% accurate. If you're not willing to work long hours for shit pay, your ass is on the next bus home, potentially to never return again. And people wonder why Writers' and Actors' unions exist.
Hell, their looking at Waukegan of all locations now, knowing damn well that their getting a shiny new Casino by 2026 and don't even have a location to start building what they have planned. They all just see dollar signs as if their all Mr. Krabs dude. Something tells me this all isn't gonna end well.
@@bleakaux9289 yeah when I saw that I just laughed and said “Yeah ok….Waukegan is just as bad with crime than Chicago. Maybe not that much in the numbers but it’s bad regardless.
the mccaskeys and the media's "derr mah hard nose daaaa beears football" narratives for the stadium is annoying my dad's side of the family are life long chicago sports fans since even after they moved to pa in the early 70s so i know all about the clear tone deaf media and the mccaskeys compared to the fans i remember telling my family whenever the "hard nose" excuses is used for why they keep soldier field "didnt that same 'hard nosed bears' team dominate the 80s and win a sb with astro turf and a smaller stadium ??"
@@chriskay1449 hate to break it to you, but there are thousands of examples of majority publicly owned shares of teams in the world world who aren’t as corrupt as the billionaire owned teams that strong arm the cities they reside in. The only places we’re it comes close to your government corruption you’re claiming is dictatorships.
Winnipeg Blue Bombers of the CFL are an example. Their current 30,000 seat stadium went over by $100 million, but at least they are community owned. Fan ownership is another ideal if stadiums are publicly funded. At least the people benefiting actually have a say on how the teams run. This works well in Green Bay as the Packers might be the only relevant thing in town asides from a university.
As a former Chargers fan, it hurt like hell when Dean Spanos abandoned us. The city was more than willing to work with him to get a new stadium in the existing Mission Valley area next to QUALCOMM. Dean, however, wanted a downtown stadium due to its lucrative land value. He never acted in good faith, and always wanted to move to Los Angeles. Now, he’s the owner of a team without a home with no real fanbase to speak of. I’m proud to say we are one of the few cities that said fuck you to an owner asking us to foot the bill of their ego shrines.
I live in Alberta. The Flames got $330 million in provincial money and even more city money for an arena as a pure election ploy in the middle of a massive affordability crisis and major cuts to healthcare and education. Its horrible. There’s no question that the Saddledome is a dump, but they walked away over like $10 million and got an even better deal for vote buying. It’s a horrible deal for residents and we’re going to be paying it off for a long time.
We've been paying off the alternate's fuck ups since she was last in. She octupled our deficit. I've been in debt since. Do you have amnesia? Keep watching Castreau funded (tax funded) media propaganda.
The Oilers paid 165 million with Edmonton paying 312 million for Rogers Place. I love the Edmonton Oilers and I knew we needed the new arena as we couldn’ use the Northlands Coliseum forever
I honestly was impressed with Oakland's city leadership. They knew that the A's owner was trying to extort them, and budget-wise, they couldn't afford it. Rather than let the owner's fleece them again for fancy stadiums they wouldn't be able to profit from, they left the table. Honestly more NFL cities should do the same. IIRC, the Dolphin's owner tried to get Miami to pony up for stadium renovations, and they told him to kick rocks. He ended up paying for it out of pocket.
Miami-Dade County had the political window to tell the dolphins to kick rocks after what Loria did with the Miami Marlins. Citizens got politicians kicked out with that move, South Floridians are still hesitant on funding stadiums because of that mess.
Oakland has been ripped mercilessly by fans around the country for not keeping their teams but this video shows they tried to play the stadium game and were burned in a major way. He didn’t even mention the $120M the city spent to renovate Oracle Arena in 1997 (220M in today’s dollars) Oakland had to force the Warriors in court to pay for their part of the renovations when they moved to San Francisco.
That would seem to work well for larger markets but the NFL is the league that abandoned fricken Los Angeles and Houston, the former losing two teams in a single year.
They got extorted way back in 1995 when they built Mt. Davis. It was useless and thus the Raiders still left again, the Warriors moved across to San Francisco, and the A's are on their way to Vegas.
no, Emirates was built and finished in 2006 while Stan Kroenke was a 11% stack holder in 2007 and only became the sole owner of AFC in 2018. However, Arsenal did fund their stadium completely privately which kind of goes to the point Zapdos is making. Arsenal's finances are some of the top of the EPL even better than Man City. Tifo Football TH-cam Channel (owned by the Athletic) did an amazing video on their finances @@FelipeYoshioCordeirodeSouza see: th-cam.com/video/AdIGtl3ztJk/w-d-xo.htmlsi=zYK_0FZt60z44Eok
The Pirates threatened to leave Pittsburgh. Pittsburghers voted for them to leave. Our mayor then decided our votes don't count and gave the team funding for PNC Park. I believe we've got about 3 more decades of increased taxes to finish paying it off... of course in 3 decades it will be long since torn down and we'll already be paying for another park.
All payments, subsidies, incentives, etc., whether direct or indirect should be made illegal. That would end the shake downs. Hard to believe average taxpayers are gifting stadiums to billionaires. It's insane.
You forgot to mention the Wilfs. US bank is partly publicly funded, but the Wilfs payed off the entire stadium something like 20 years ahead of schedule out of pocket. Saved Minneapolis taxpayers close to $300 million
Philadelphia is currently going through a situation like this. The Sixers are trying to strong arm the city into building a new arena downtown (all of the Big 4 stadiums in the city are located in a giant parking lot in South Philadelphia). The city and local populus are not buying it though. Mainly because the Sixers have exhausted most of their goodwill after years of continuous choking and the fact that they’ll probably be in a rebuild and will be awful by the time the new arena would be built.
And being a Dallas fan (who of course hates the Eagles), I like the Philly concept of having all the stadiums/arenas in one location. Especially with having true mass transit options.
I actually like Philadelphia's sports complex, being in a relatively tame location of the city as well as being right next to I 95 and just an exit away makes it the most convenient location for all the teams to be at.
Their threat to move to Camden helped lead to the construction of the Corestates/First Union/Wachovia/Wells Fargo Center though so they think it will work again. That said, the downtown arena would be a disaster. Not only will it destroy Chinatown, it will be a logistical nightmare.
Vegas is different than the average city when it comes to economic return from a stadium due to the non-NFL events Allegiant Stadium runs year-around via tourism from THE STRIP. In 2016 the "projected" Economic output was $620 mill/yr $231mill in Wages/Salaries to stadium employees, and 5,980 jobs......ACTUAL economic output in 2022? = $1.8 billion/yr (+185%) economic output, $443 mill (+92%) in wages/salaries, and 7,900 (32%) jobs. The $750 mill Allegiant Stadium got from a hotel room tax (not Clark County/Las Vegas general taxpayer fund) is a literal drop in the bucket to the economic impact the stadium has had on the city. It more than doubles what it was paid for every.single.year.
tree, you forgot to mention the edmonton oilers nearly moving to seattle about 10 years ago. due to our owner Daryl Katz wanted a new arena (Rogers Place), when there was next to nothing wrong with Rexall
Urinating Tree you are the man with your videos. They light fire under mediocre teams and rip consistently inconsistent teams and owners that hold cities hostage for public money for new stadiums.
It's weird though that he wouldn't mention the Pirates and PNC Park, especially since he promoted them at the beginning of the video. Pittsburghers voted against building PNC Park... but our mayor decided we didn't know what we wanted and gave the team funding anyway. My yet to be born grandchildren will still be paying increased taxes to pay off this park.
Might as well add the Capitals and Wizards to this list, Ted Leonsis is threatening to move them to Virginia if DC doesn't pay for upgrades to Capital One Arena.
It's odd that he didn't add the Pirates, considering Pittsburghers voted against building them a new park... but the owner and mayor got together and decided we didn't know what we wanted... and now my yet to be born grandchildren will still be paying off PNC Park.
the funny part is that Chicago’s been through the same with their teams. the Cubs have had a ton of renovations over the past 20 years to keep up with Fenway to boast themselves as the longest standing stadiums in baseball. as for the Bears, the good thing for the Bears is that Soldier Field is owned by the city’s park district, so it could still be used as a concert venue if the team moves out. the bad thing is even after purchasing the rumored property for new digs in Arlington Heights, they’re still on Zillow to see if something’s better in Naperville, Aurora, or Waukegan.
The 76ers want to move out of Wells Fargo Center and into an arena in center city and fans like me are upset at that. If you didn’t know, all the 4 major sports teams stadiums in Philadelphia are located in the same complex and are right off I-95 so they are easy to get to and that’s such a luxury when you compare it to other cities and seeing a team not understand it is upsetting to me, especially when Wells Fargo Center isn’t old.
Yea I need to know how much money the taxpayer will fork over; I don't trust Fetterman at all with this BS 1.3 Billion dollar Deal. and they whole "Trust the Process" I expect rioting.
I was thinking a bit about the Sixers during this video and how seemingly foolish Philly and the state of Pennsylvania will be if they allow the construction of a brand new place miles away from where all of the other sports related infastrucure already exists. I don't live in PA, but if I did, I'd be livid if they approved a whole new building before improving the one that they already have.
@@marcus813 an ESPN article from April mentions supporters wanting it to be based around public transit, and would bring “needed investment and development” into Center City. Other than that, they haven’t publicly mentioned a “need” to vacate the Wells Fargo Center, even saying that they’re not in a rush. Personally, it seems much more beneficial to keep everything sports related in one place in south Philly, since then you can have SEPTA operate the same trains towards the area for basketball and hockey as they would for baseball and football, parking lots can be shared between the venues, and it’s all right by I-95, allowing for easier access for fans from New Jersey, Delaware, or other parts of Pennsylvania not in Philly to access the area
Believe it or not the WF Center is nearly 30 years old. Strange to think of it that way but yeah, not a long time especially considering that the Vet was only 33 years old when it was imploded.
Kraken did the same thing with CPA that the Knights did, in large part because of how pissed the city still is over what Clay Bennett did with the Sonics
Amazing video - as an Englishman, the concept of having a sports team relocate is pretty much unheard of (there's a handful of cases, but none of them were high profile teams). Scary how much power these owners have
If that's all there was to it, I'd laugh, and finish the video. Punching down furries is just douchebaggery. But I probably already agree with everything else he said on the subject of stadiums in the U.S. They promise a lot, deliver little in return, and rip off taxpayers in the process.
When Hard Rock Stadium came time for rennovations, Stephen Ross tried to get the public to pay for it for years. He even dragged Dan Marino to court to advocate for the team! He ended up paying for it on his own when no one caved and called out his relocation BS. The problem with this as Tree said beautifully was that most cities outside of the major ones do not have the leverage to call these owners on their bluffs. Kroenke paid out of pocket because LA is a city that is so lucrative for teams that they knew they didnt have to pay a dime and teams would line up to come.
The owners of the Chiefs and Royals are trying to get in on the action as well. KC is still paying for renovations to both stadiums through tax increases and then all of a sudden when it comes time to ask the voters if they want to extend it, the Royals ask for a new stadium, in downtown, with no parking lot, on land already owned by small businesses. Then all of a sudden the Chiefs come out and say they’ll move if it doesn’t go through. Guess what, the taxpayers saw right through it and it failed. Now both teams are trying to pressure other cities to make them offers. Like Dallas. And KCK.
This probably one of my favorite vids you have made! I have never had some one break down the stadium grift like that and make sense. Awesome vid Tree!
You should look into the park he promotes at the start of the video. Pittsburghers voted against building PNC Park, but our mayor just told us we didn't know what we wanted and gave the team the funding. The team has never won even a playoff series, has never spent money, and my yet to be born grandchildren will still be trying to pay off PNC Park.
Both the Vikings and Twins have very recently received new big money stadiums. Higher taxes in the city, all the cool pre-game bars that were there disappeared and now the city feels so boring.
I live in Nashville. I have for over a decade. Nissan stadium hosts a major event at least once every other week. This will only increase if they have a new modern stadium.
sure, but what's the revenue slice for the governments that put up the money? if the public puts up all the money but private companies take all the revenue then taxpayers are still getting screwed for taking on the risks
As a longtime Oakland resident thanks for setting straight all the people ripping Oakland for being hesitant to hand the A’s money. They’ve already been burned and are still paying for it.
the city hasnt actually agreed to pay for it yet. i live in jacksonville and i fucking hope they dont. not even cause im a patriots fan but because fuck giving billionaires money.
@@tr4v159153 unfortunately most people don't want the city to pay for it but Everbank Stadium (new name) is owned by the city of Jacksonville, so even if Khan would be willing to cough up a billion for the stadium, he legally cannot; the city would need to cover the majority of the cost.
I think that Vegas is a unique situation where it may actually being in outsiders and more spending. We saw it with the Raiders, the amount of away fans was quite high, and I'd expect the same with the A's, so it might actually be worth the public funding in that case, but only time will tell
It makes sense given how Las Vegas is almost entirely built around getting out of towners to come there and see things. This will draw in the sports fans (and the raiders are popular in LA which is easily drivable). It's also fun that the team the locals care about is the one with the privately funded stadium.
Financially it will never be worth it. It’s about prestige, nothing more. Stadium and parks do not help the local economy. They never have and they never will. They just spread the entertainment money around locally while the owners take all the profits. That’s been proven time and time again, so much that’s an inarguable point.
Nobody is flying to Vegas to go watch their team play the A's in baseball. It's mostly locals showing up for MLB. Except for the people that are already there or planned on going there for vacation. When the A's suck ..the locals will dry up faster than a 60 year old prostitute.
this is why as a Jets fan i am proud to say the stadium we share with the Giants was 100% Privately financed not a Dime of Taxpayer money was spent on it
@@tehbeernerd Eh, a downtown stadium does provide some boost to downtown spending (hotels, taxis, bars, etc.). It is almost never enough to justify the cost of construction, but it might be enough to cover the upkeep, or at least get close.
@@tehbeernerd True, although I will admit the public funding was mainly used to build a rail station/line connecting to the Meadowlands, which was 100% worth it. As someone who's a Giants fan and lives in NYC, the trek is way easier for NYC residents to get there than it was when it was the dump known as Giants Stadium.
A few things I want to add to your essay, which is very spot on considering how often the topic is quickly brushed under the rug by politicians. Politicians look at more than just "tourists" to justify spending on a stadium. Tourism is an unrealsitic expectation for about 75% of franchise cities. Cities like Oakland, Indianapolis, Buffalo and St. Louis are never going to attract enough tourism to justify the spending of the facility. If anything, I imagine people would probably pay you money NOT to take them to St.Louis or Oakland. The reason most of the these stadiums get cleared is because it allows the local governments to put a stimulus into the local economy without outright just giving people money. As you mentioned in your video construction leads to a lot of pork in bills and that's largely tolerated because these project employ thousands of individuals for long periods of time in an industry that typically sees a employment booms and busts. Large scale projects like these keep people employed and keep them off your unemployment figures come election season. Additionally, breads and circuses has been a viable political tactic since the days of Rome. Attracting a sports team gives your voters a distraction that keeps them at home instead of in the street protesting. Sports have long been a tool of modern government to both placate and control the masses to some extent. In small moderation, it can be fine. I don't think anyone really cares when the local mayor makes a jibe at a division rival, but the second it begins to rely on it as a distraction from public policy or as a medium by which you can direct hatred of your constituents at something other than your effectiveness, it becomes a problem. Its less pronounced in the US, but think about how radical and nationalized football teams can be in Europe or in South America as an example. If you don't think that can occur in the US, I'd ask you to walk into a Philly Sports bar with a Dak Prescott Jersey on.
The sad part of the Videotron Center is that it is really well thought out, everything there is top notch. Coming from a Habs fan with the Bell Center.
Another team/owner that privately funded their own area recently was warriors owner Joe Lacob, he payed for everything IN San Francisco and it was the reason it got done so quickly
The same Lacob that tried to shaft Oakland on his way out you mean? That the city had to take him to court to get him to pay $120 million for the renovations the team received lol.
Over in MLS, Columbus Crew is a similar story. Also NYCFC finally getting a stadium next to CitiField. Part of a rebuild of Willets Point area of Queens with public housing and new business developments. Will be interesting to see how that works out financially.
As with everything, the costs will skyrocket and the city will end up paying a ton of money out of pocket. Honestly the city is on the hook for a lot no matter what just on the required infrastructure that's going to be needed in Willets Point to handle what they want to build there.
Another great video Tree !! You're right about how every NFL team that wanted a stadium used Los Angeles for blackmail. The list 49ers, Cardinals , Vikings ,( and they did it twice ) Seattle, Chargers and the Rams again. What bothers me the most is the NFL makes enough money in three years to buy a new stadium for each team without public funding.
Funny thing is Vikings stadium has already been paid off. Both the Wilfs and the Public paid it off 20 years early. Apparently Pull Tabs which is a scratch off game is a great way raise revenue if you locate dispensers at bars.
So glad we’re having this conversation. More teams should go the Gillette Stadium route - yes they host local concerts & Pats/Revs games, but they allocated land specifically to retail & entertainment. Not to mention that they’re medium and big box locations that attract a lot of people and wouldn’t necessarily have items that are easy to find online, so people have to go there. Another solution is what PG County, MD is doing with the FedEx Field area - they know the Commanders are gonna leave, so they’re just building housing there. TLDR: don’t just build the stadium, make it an anchor site for other things that are year-round.
Great video as always. I hope you do a video on the MASSIVE failure of multipurpose stadiums. It makes sense on paper; why have two or more stadiums sucking up taxpayer money when you can have just one? In reality, vastly different sports needing different resources, different fields, different amounts of staff at vastly different times of the year causes problems that result in their failure. No. Exceptions.
I would disagree when it comes to arenas though. Better to build one arena and get two teams then build one for one and have the other hockey/basketball team play elsewhere.
@ProudRegressive I can't think of another market where the hockey and basketball teams play in separate arenas other than Minnesota. (Get this: the reason why the North Stars didn't move in with the Timberwolves at Target Center was over Pepsi vs. Coke) I guess South Florida too (Heat in Miami proper, Panthers in Sunrise)
In San Francisco, before the Giants pallpark was built, the surrounding area was comprised of rotting industrial type buildings/warehouses. Now, a thriving neighborhood with loads of housing/restaurants/companies surrounding the ballpark. Yes, a ballpark/stadium can bring economic benefits
And where did that money COME from? The people eating at those restaurants used to eat at restaurants elsewhere in SF. The companies that moved there used to do their business in another neighborhood. The people living in those houses used to live in another neighborhood.
@@Altasren there was nothing around Candlestick. When the Giants moved, they created a new thriving area at China Basin. Candlestick was a place that deserved to be deserted. Also, the Giants park was privately financed. They did get a few tax breaks, but those were paid off within 10 years.
Honestly, I'd have thought Las Vegas would be the one city where tourism WOULD be able to make up the costs for publicly funding new stadiums since it's got the Strip luring endless hordes of people into their casinos and resorts before draining their wallets dry like a leech. Ironic that the Golden Knights ignored this in favour of funding their arena themselves.
Now that I think of it, it actually makes a lot of sense for the team to fully own tmobile arena. They probably get a big cut from all the big ticket events that it hosts year round.
FACT: Your favourite sports team(s) do not have you or your communities best interests in mind.. They don’t give a shit about the city that they’re tied to, at all.
6:32 Having to be reminded (as a native) of what happened to St. Louis and the Rams is aggravating. The team being terrible for the better part of decade just to leave area, disparage the city, and leave the taxpayers to pay for an aging stadium that won’t be used to its fullest extent.
DETROIT. City is broke, still climbing out of bankrupcy and yet they shelled out 500 MILLION to the Red Wings to build Little Casears' Arena. Stadium cost like 800 million to build on top of that.
I’m guessing that the reason why Nashville is willing to pay $2.1B for their new stadium is because they’re banking on the city’s growth. Over the past two decades, the city’s metro population has practically doubled if not tripled. It’s one of the fastest growing major cities in the USA. I’m sure the cost won’t be that severe if the city keeps up its booming ways, but if not, then this stadium may become a giant pain in Nashville’s ass.
You're absolutely right, I'm from Nashville, born and raised. They have built so many new houses, apartment complexes, and businesses in the last 5 years or so, and they're still building a whole of shit in Nashville.
The Vikings and Minnesota paying off US Bank Stadium 23 years early feels like a huge contrast compared to all these other cities. And that was all after getting the Wild, Twins, and Gophers much better stadiums, plus a privately-funded MLS stadium. Frankly, we needed it...badly. We lost the North Stars because they were stuck in a dilapidated stadium, and all the other teams were forced into playing in the Metrodome. Everyone hated it (Except me, lol). Also, speaking of business investments, the whole Dome/US Bank area has been completely transformed since. It used to be a run-down concrete jungle.
You're still paying billions of dollars that you can't hope to pay back, and guess what? None of those teams have won even one championship. It won't be long until the Wolves ask for a new arena too, and I'm sure Minnesota will cave again (especially when the team is good for the second time in their existence). They'll get the arena built and then resume sucking like every other team here
@@FirearmofMutiny Leave it to another Minnesotan to have the most retarded stadium takes possible, lmao. I'd bet you'd try to have the Wolves still play in the Metrodome if you could. Doesn't matter how far you try to run... You're stuck with us *F O R E V E R.*
I am hoping more cities and taxpayers see through the “it’ll be a tourist attraction” trap. I would love to see a clause where if a new stadium is built, the team is obligated to stay for 25 years minimum. Props to the owners who pay for the stadium themselves.
that is kind of what Seattle have with the Seahawks. They went after Paul Allen to buy the team and he campaigned to get a deal for nowadays Lumen Field. But there is a contract in place that if the teams is sold before april of 2024, 10% of the sale goes to the state of Washington because of their funding and all
As someone who lived in Montana his whole life, I've been wanting my own professional sports team in my state for years and just recently learning of the heartache fans go through just to even have a team in their own citys this makes me not want one hardly anymore. The emotional rollercoaster rides owners and politicians give taxpayers is messed up. Yeah I think I'll keep being a fan of out of state teams and continue to hope that the UM Grizzlies get out of the FCS and into the FBS.
Strange that you didn’t mention the 76ers’ planned stadium in central Philadelphia. The proposal would put it in Chinatown, which has drawn the ire of pretty much everyone due to it already being torn asunder by Interstate 676.
It's far stranger that he didn't mention PNC Park... since he promoted it at the start of the video. We voted against building it, but the mayor told us we're idiots and gave the team funding. He has since spent the last 20 years living outside of the city and not paying the increased tax, while we're all stuck here paying it for 3 more decades.
The only thing that will make this to stop is go full euro mode and adopt 50+1 in ALL professional teams in USA, i doubt the Fans that have Club Membership would vote for recolocation
I know this is mainly a Big 4 sports page but Q2 Stadium in Austin, TX was built with private funds for Austin FC in the MLS. That stadium is unbelievable, a template for future soccer (and possibly NFL) stadiums and the citizens have thrown their full support behind the team. I don’t know how most of the Big 4 owners sleep well at night knowing they’re kneecapping the markets they represent considering they’ll make the revenue back tenfold if they put a good product out there.
While I look at the positives of Grossi's 30in30 fundraising tour, this upload is the reality check we ALL need to get a clue about ownerships and the stadiums we build for them
Keep up the good work Tree. It's a shame how many are still loyal toward sports. The relocation threats. Hell, I grew a Charlotte Hornets (pre-Bobcats), Cincinnati Bengals, Ottawa Senators, and Houston Astros fan. I have seen almost of all of them either get threatened with relocation, relocate, or bleed tax payers dry. It's digusting. People vote to not waste tax money but they'll be more passionate about voting against "wokeness" then giving millions to billionaires undercutting the same tax waste they whine about to begin with. I honestly don't know why people still care about sports. I've left it where it deserves to be, my childhood.
Voters and politicians need to stop approving of government spending for private ventures. Governments have no responsibility to fund sports teams or any other private company.
Pittsburghers voted against PNC Park... the mayor then told us we were stupid and gave the team funding anyway. This has absolutely NOTHING to do with the populace, and everything to do with the politicians. It doesn't matter if you vote against these proposals, or boycott, or protest... they don't care. They're going to do whatever they need to do so they can get a fat kickback when they leave office.
@@FirearmofMutiny If they leave they leave. No city is entitled to any sports franchise or business for that matter. If they stay, they stay. If they leave they leave.
Cities should never put up more than 25% of a project’s funding. The money doesn’t come back. If a football team wants a stadium, build it or socialize the profit. Or piss off.
82,000 People went to see Arsenal v. Man United at Metlife Stadium. At 150 being the get in price * 82,000 = $12.3 Million. $12.3 Million * NJ Sales Tax at 6.625% is $814,875 in sales tax revenue alone assuming all seats were sold at the min. Many seats were 3 to 4x the price. Then Parking at $40 with 23,000 parking spots. Then Concessions. Stadium collected probably 1.2million for the state of NJ in sales tax alone that day. Multiply that by the min 19 NFL games held every year not including the playoffs for the Giants and Jets. The 3 Taylor Swift Shows. That is only 1 years worth of revenue not counting other smaller events. Other years Metlife has seen Wrestlemania, Copa America, in 2026 the world cup, the NHL stadium series 2024, and the super has been played or will be played Metlife. So we are looking at 25 million a year generated in sales tax by the stadium at min with a conservative estimate. In less than 10 years the Stadium sales tax revenues paid off the all of the 250million in area improvements. Thats a good Return on Investment for the state of NJ.
Here's a relatively simple solution for owners to maintain government funding. For the duration of the stadium/arena being open, all parties split profits proportional to how much they spent for construction. Let's say an arena will host both an NHL and NBA team. Let's say this arena will cost $500 million. The NBA team pays $75 million, the NHL team pays $100 million, and the city pays the remaining $325 million. Each party would split profit based on their share of construction costs. In this scenario, the NBA team gets 15%, the NHL team gets 20%, and the city gets 65%. Over several years, each party would more than make up their initial investment.
Great video as usual Tree! I liked all the examples that you gave of how so many cities have been screwed over into building these stadiums/arenas for the owners. I visited Fenway Park last month and I guess that's what makes places like that (Wrigley Field, Lambeau Field, etc.) special. I'm guessing the owners of those teams (not the Packers, they are an exception) have tried to get new stadiums in the past but they are still standing.
5:16 As a hungarian, I didn't know that the Budapest metro line cost that much From what I can guess (based on how corrupt our government can be), a nice chunk of that $1.6 billion went to the corporate people who got permission to build the thing and the politicians. When I first saw the graph I busted out laughing, beacuse I find it funny how a small and insignificant country like ours can get on such a list. Sadly as I eluded to earlier, corruption is a big reason why.
I wish the vid would have mentioned the 49ers POS owner situation. The city of Santa Clara actually negotiated a somewhat decent deal to get paid if they financed the team's new stadium, but after about 3 yrs of that the team owner stopped paying, paid off 80% of the city council to not enforce the contract, fired the city attorney for trying to enforce the contract, and is doing everything in his power to make sure the city doesn't get any of the money they negotiated... if there is a just god in this universe that team owner will get the most aggressive ass cancer that ever existed
0:14 nonono tree, you *want* anthrocon to be happening because that means andrew mccutchen will transform into statistically one of the greatest batters of all time
This is an excellent piece, not full of professional pleasantries, but rather fueled by passion. The very thing that the fans give each day, before greed and opportunity gets in the way. I really appreciate your work, Tree.
Pull tabs, PSLs, and Tax-happy Democrats is how. They are raising taxes even higher now even though we have a $9 Billion surplus - which they voted to spend it all away. It's good that US Bank Stadium is paid off early tho. We also have a state-of-the-art clause, however.
Sad thing is that most sports fan are poor locals who get most affected by the cuts that the counties have to make. Then, they complain about it, a unscrupulous politician comes by with a scapegoat and the cycle starts again.
There’s an old joke that “if building stadiums really made cities any money, the owners would build the stadiums themselves.”
The underrated statement of the day.
It's a clever line, but it doesn't really address the pro-stadium argument. Nobody has ever claimed that a stadium will make its costs back in its own ticket sales and concessions, the claim is always that it will boost overall spending in the downtown as a whole, as sports fans book hotel rooms, eat dinner in a restaurant before the game, and go to a bar afterwards. A team owner can't benefit from the increase in spending in other downtown businesses (short of trying to own the entire downtown himself), but the city does, through business and sales taxes.
As UTree pointed out, the numbers don't necessarily bear that line of logic out, but your quip is a total strawman argument.
@@boosterh1113 an old joke. Not a statement.
vikings managing just fine, yes using gambling taxes but 500 million paid off 23 years early and the stadium is owned by the state
Build something that makes money with your own money, or build something that makes you money using someone else's money... why would the owners build themselves when they can do it on someone else's dime?
Old joke, old statement, whatever, it's wrong.
The worst part of all of this is watching the suits pretend like they've ever actually used a shovel before.
"How do you do, fellow workers?"
Idk, that old lady that couldn’t even lift a shovel full of dirt was pretty funny lol
Oh, I wish we could use it on them
I'm pretty sure that's not the worst part. Them pilfering the poor cities is considerably way worse than them holding shovels.
what do you mean "pretend" 😅😅
It's fascinating seeing the dirtier side of sports when it comes to the Stadium question.
Probably because you’re not into em.
And the Stadium question is vastly complicated to answer, at least in terms of the NFL
The Olympics are the biggest cautionary tale of building new stadiums. The stadiums only get used for those games and then decay afterwards. The 2004 Athens Olympics and 2016 Rio de Janeiro Olympics are perfect examples of that. Atlanta and London have made good use out of their Olympic venues since the conclusion of the games held in those cities.
at least in rio we trying to reverse it
The LA Colosseum has been around for a century, has hosted 3 Olympics, and is still in use today so it's depends on how the stadium is built.
@@Rockhound6165When the LA Colosseum was built, the Olympics was a very different beast. It was *amateur* athletic competition and didn't have as many athletes (and events) attending as modern Olympics do.
@@djm5687 OK. Still doesn't take away from the fact that the Coliseum is still standing and still being used regularly.
@@Rockhound6165It's the exception that proves the rule. It immediately became the football stadium for UCLA and USC. USC is still there. The list of professional sport franchises that have called it home at some point is a mile long. There's been at least a half dozen major renovations over the years. It's also now a historic landmark. Like Fenway or Lambeau it's become a part of the city. Very few stadiums will ever be able to say that.
The funniest part of this video was the idea of a pirates game being sold out.
as a pirates fan seeing tree put them getting shutout when hes pitching seatgeat is hilarous
Yeah, because so many MLB games are sold out! 🙄
@@andrewalden8364 MLS laughs at this
@@andrewalden8364highest attendance rate in decades this season.
As a Brit, this shit is insane. We had one example of a team moving in 2002 (Wimbledon FC to Milton Keynes Dons) and it was so controversial the FA (Football Association) practically banned it, with the Wimbledon fans forming a new team and are now playing in the same division as MK Dons!
Oh wow! I dont remember hearing about this but glad Wimbledon got a new club!
America is just so massive that there's always some new real estate/untapped market to exploit for our greedy owners to hold a new or old city hostage with. And yet all this land wasn't even enough for Kroenke or the Glazers.
It really is like obvs some teams have moved like MK Dons or Arsenal (they moved from Woolwich Arsenal in South London where they got their name from to North London)
But imagine someone trying to move a team like Aston Villa to Manchester looool people would throw riots
It's a bit hard to moče away when the team's name is (city name) + united/FC. Teams make a lot of money on merchandising, and the brand name itself has quite a lot of value
I'm from the states so I'm not too familiar with soccer history but how long has the Wimbleton club been in the city before it moved?
It’s still crazy that over 12,000 people got to see a perfect game at the A’s stadium and most of them were Yankee fans.
To play devils advocate there are Yankees fans literally everywhere. They'll take over any game.
@@bw-leftturnracing7779Yanks are the only eternally overrated team. They probably get new fans every minute
@@bw-leftturnracing7779 Agreed... every time they come to Toronto, half of the people in the stadium are wearing Yankees caps...
To be fair, the Bay Area has alot of people from somewhere else around the United States. I lived there and I remember thinking to myself, "This place sure has alot of Dallas Cowboys & Pittsburgh Steelers fans."
@@terrencecarter1915I’m like “everyone can’t be a Yankees or dodgers fan right?” “Why so many white Sox and reds fans hats?”
The use of the SimCity 3000 soundtrack -- specifically one of the songs that plays when you're building infrastructure like water pipes and power lines -- around the 3:45 mark when groundbreakings and construction are shown is right up my alley when it comes to letting sports and old vidya collide. Tree you beautiful yinzer bastard, you've nailed it again.
the metal gear solid music was a good touch too.
You know it’s bad when a TH-camr explains things almost 10x better than an official commentator on ESPN these days.
Speaking of ESPN. It might be time for Tree to make another video about them. How they still don’t get it. Plus it’s fun to make fun of ESPN.
Maybe that's why they all got fired today
what can i say if Sports had a HOF for Fans Tree would be a First ballot Lock
The ESPN drones aren’t allowed to say anything that would upset the ruling class who make us foot the bill for their businesses
Because the big networks exist only because they have the in with the leagues and teams. They push THEIR narrative, not the players, fans, or the truth.
I know it’s not a new stadium, but all the renovations to Wrigley Field over the last decade have not cost taxpayers a dime. Considering the renovations cost about as much as an entire stadium, I think it deserves a mention
And that’s one fanbase that probably wouldn’t even mind fitting the bill
Or instead of fighting locals for creating their own viewing decks out of their homes, using that as a marketing gimmick.
Ngl there’s things I’m gonna miss when I move out of Chicago. The sports culture is one of them.
actually the residents of wrigley are not all fans of the stadium. the first night played was only 1986.
This is why I like when they don't replace the stadiums in England that often. Next season there will be a Premier League team playing right in the heart of a neighborhood, with visiting fans having to go through someone's backyard to get to their seats. Would never fly in America and that's why it's so cool.
I love Luton's ground
Tom Scott once said something to the effect of "England is the best at doing strange things for a long time simply for the fact that we've been doing things that way for a long time." Gives the place a character that's sorely missing or has even been beaten out of the US.
Europe/Uk has not much land to build new stadiums so they update them rather then build a whole new one.
Luton do need a new ground though. Should give some extra capacity and meet PL standards. Power Court can not come soon enough. Everton is getting a new stadium, out on the waterfront, as they also could use some more capacity to generate more revenue, as Goodison is kind of crammed right now, with little room for expansion. But yeah, I think the teams owning their own stadiums helps to reduce teams moving from stadium to stadium every 25 years
Brentford’s old Griffin Park ground with the pubs on every corner is still amazing
When you know everything is a grift, life becomes a lot clearer.
Billionaires don’t become ridiculously wealthy by spending their own money
Indeed. More people need to come to terms with this fact quicker rather than clutching their pearls in apparent shock when the truth gets a bit more obvious to spot.
Great commentary to bad seat geeks prolly a grift too.
Just ask Hunter…grift of the century! 😂
Probably why a little over 1/3 of Americans in 2020 still didn't vote.
As a Royals fan, the grift and pressure John Sherman the owner has put on the city for a new stadium has been tense. Fans are angry because the team is so bad, and in a state of rising inflation people don't want to pay taxes for a team that has a consistency in being bad. This year was supposed to be an evaluation season he said, a 60 win team, but instead he'll get a 40 win team if he's lucky.
Also it is sad that KC hasn't had an NBA or even NHL team come, and likely won't even if the NBA expans
@joeym5243 Well they did have a NBA Team, it just moved to Sacramento.
Wait...didn't Kauffman Stadium get renovated around the time yall won the WS??
As a fellow Kansas Citian I will be enraged if he gets a new stadium. If they were winning it would still piss me off, but he has the balls to ask for one when the Royals have only been competitive in 2 seasons the last 20+ years. Bunch of shit.
I didn’t even know about the Royals gunning for a new stadium. I hope you guys keep your team.
One of your best and most important videos ever. It's insane how much tax dollars go towards stadiums and residents don't get anything back
The park he showed at the beginning of the video is the perfect example. PNC Park did not increase Pittsburgh revenue AT ALL, and my yet to be born grandchildren will still be taxed to pay it off. Oh, and Pittsburghers voted against the stadium and said the Pirates could leave... the Mayor said we didn't know what we wanted and agreed we would pay for the stadium.
Yeah, and I never heard of these "state of the art" clauses. It's just a blank check of taxpayer funds. Not. Worth. It.
But Ive got to look at all these lunatics cry over student loans. "Socialism doesnt work!!!!" Through tax cuts, loopholes, military waste/overspending and catering to super pac donors by making deals (similar to the kinds of local bs deals like these stadium deals) we spend hundreds of billions or trillions ANNUALLY on socializing the people who already have all the money. The one time the govt was giving to everyone ELSE, giving to average people who are going to be pumping money, time and resources into the economy at large instead of hoarding it... and half the country throws a fit without knowing anything about the economy or how our taxes constantly get misused for things like this.
@kenfresno2125 Just curious: did the mayor or any of the politicians that voted in favor of using tax dollars for the stadium *get voted out of office?*
Socialism for the rich, brutalist feudalism for the poor.
Field of Schemes is a good read that goes into quite a bit of detail on this topic, especially about the stadium and arena boom of the 90s
Yep. There were a number of books published discussing this in the wake of the Browns and Oilers moving, and Field of Schemes is probably the best.
On a related note I’d recommend “Lords of the Realm” by John Heyler-it’s a history of Union-owner conflicts in the MLB up until the 1994-1995 strike.
I read this when I was in high school and didn't watch sports for like 15 years after that.
I go there myself, too.
We're going through the same thing in Chicago. Now the Bears are trying to pit every suburb in Cook County against each other all for the "privilege" of hosting an NFL team.
I thought it was called Crook County
They are looking outside of Crook County as well. Only Waukegan and A.H. are in Cook. Naperville and Aurora are firmly outside in DuPage and Kane Counties
@@Jogo-62 Waukegan is not in Cook county
@@sporeranier Whoops! I'm retarded. I always think it's in Cook when it's the county seat of Lake...
Chiraq
After what happened in SD and with Spanos, this was the exact thing that pulled me into the VGK. Vegas built their team from scratch without local taxpayer money. That was so refreshing, and the fact they were good was just a bonus.
This is exactly why I say to call their bluff. If a team threatens to move without taxpayer funds, let them. If they want taxpayer funds for your private venture (taxpayers that may not even be fans of your sport), then the city gets an ownership stake. This crap needs to stop.
Hell the ownership deal of GB I can wholeheartedly get behind.
Sadly, like Tree said, there will always be another city which will be more than happy to bend over.
As a former Charger fan, I’m glad SD told Spanos to get fucked. San Diegans got tired of him waffling about to where they finally said, if you’re gonna go, go! The Knights are a good example of how a franchise should be runned with a competent owner and personnel. Kraft also privately funded Gillette stadium, same with the GSW owner and SF Giants ownership and Kroencke - for all his faults and he’s got plenty, did it too. And although I’m not a Packers fan, I love how it’s a communal ownership. I wish professional sports were like that but that’s dead and buried. Oakland finally had the balls to say No to Davis and Fisher. You’re absolutely right about how people need to start calling their bluff on owners. Ownership in SF (excluding the Niners) were able to publicly fund their stadiums, why can’t everyone else? It’s like the old adage: a rich man never gets rich spending his own money, he gets rich by getting others to spend it on him.
Or they should have a clause like the Ohio State Legislature did after the Cleveland Browns moved in the mid-90s which states that if you are an owner of a publicly subsidized stadium and you want to relocate your team that you have to first sell your team. This clause was actually effective many years later when the scumbag owner of the Columbus Crew try to hijack the city in an attempt to move the team to Austin Texas.
Billionaires and multi-multimillionaires who own sports franchises are a scourge to the sporting world. They're greedy bastards who expect full or nearly full public funding (from taxes paid by their hard working fans and or the unwitting tourists) for their shrines of competition with little personal out of pocket expense. Then when they get their stadiums, they stick it to their fans by raising up the prices for tickets and concessions! No thank you.
@@daveatkins3796cry.
As a Panthers fan, thank you so much for that final clip to end the video. It's great to relive the moment that made 2022-23 the best season Florida has ever had as a franchise. Getting to watch Verhaeghe score that goal as my dad and I live streamed the game was truly special..
Me being in Virginia, sometimes I get bummed because we don't have a major sports team. However videos like this remind me that that might not be such a bad thing 🤷🏾♂️ Especially with what these other cities have to go through 😬
The capitals of hockey and wizards owner are threatening to move to Virginia
At least you have Kings Dominion and Busch Gardens Williamsburg which are better than 2 sports teams, IMO.
@@jandrew1994Amen to that 👊🏽
As someone who also lives in Virginia, I don’t think we should build a stadium cause the traffic on I-95 and I-495 would just get even worse than it is now.
All the more reason to either let a team like the Commanders stay in either Maryland or DC, or have their fancy new ownership prove that they'll pay for the whole thing themselves, something Dan Synder clearly had no interest in doing.
You mentioned the T-Mobile Center in Kansas City but forgot an important detail. Due to the city NOT being able to land an NBA or NHL franchise, they have a lot greater leeway in scheduling concerts and other events without having to try working around the primary tenant's home schedule. As a result, (and also being on the edge of an entertainment district), it's still a profitable arena after 15 years.
The thing is, people WILL come into town for concerts, a monster truck show or the Big XII or NCAA basketball tournaments and stay the night and get a hotel room. Only a smattering of visiting team or out of town fans will when your local sports franchise hosts a home game.
This is why I like your channel. This is a glaring inconvenient truth with sports stadiums. Thank you for bringing light to it
It's weird that he opened the video with PNC Park for his commercial, but didn't actually mention how the team robbed Pittsburghers to build that stadium, and will still be robbing us for the next 30 years to pay it off.
I love seeing the suits wear their plastic hard hats and $3000 threads just to shovel 1 load of dirt into the exact same spot
I’ve been told by my parents that the moment you buy a new car it’s value starts to decrease. I think owners of sports teams think this same way too. That the moment their new digs open up they start to care less and less for it and quickly will demand for a new place.
As a European, the thought of losing your team to *another city* because they wanted to build a frickin stadium is ludicrous. I've always considered this practise insulting, like you have the fans giving their sweat, tears and paychecks for the team, and you just move house cause you wanted more sponsor money and for the home games to look better. No wonder USA fans aren't as passionate as Europeans for their teams, if your team can just decide on a whim to leave you, why even bother.
The worst part is that it can happen to anyone. I’m a fan of the KC Chiefs who are trying to win their 3rd straight Super Bowl. Our owner, however, wants a new stadium and despite the fact that we have a still nice and loud stadium (who boasts the world record for loudest crowd in human history) he still wants a new stadium and has threatened moving across a state border to do so.
This why it's annoying when people complain about the Packers selling "stocks." We know they're not actually stocks but this way fans get to help the costs to maintain Lambeau without having to inflict a new tax on green bay
People complain because they want that for THIER team - the Packers pretty much CANNOT move due to the ownership structure. The NFL made damn sure it couldn't happen twice, and this video proves they were very smart to do so. They've made SO MUCH money foisting their expenses onto the local governments over the decades.
Execpt they did inflict a new tax on Green Bay. For their major 200 million renovation which included the atrium, that was all funded by the taxpayers minus the money they made on the stock sale in the mid 1990's..A half cent tax was implemented on Brown County of which Green Bay is a part. However, that tax was approved by a referendum vote That tax was retired in 2015, YEARS ahead of schedule. Why? There was provision in the referendum that ALL the money from the tax goes to Brown County for them to use as they saw fit which is what allowed them to pay off the bonds early and have plenty of money left over to invest back into the local economy. The State of Wisconsin loved the deal because they did not have to pay a single cent and it was left to Green Bay and Brown County, so they were more than happy to stay out of the entire deal and let Brown County have full authority. The Packers used all the new revenue from Lambeau to pay for all future renovations and create a reserve fund of a half a billion dollars which allowed them to operate during the pandemic.
That Lambeau Field renovation was a rare success
@@chriskay1449 Another fun benefit of that Brown County sales tax was being able to enter a lottery with other Brown Co. residents for tickets to games. You'd still have to pay for the tickets if you won the lottery, but it was a good way to be able to buy face value tickets without having to wait your whole life in the season ticket line.
Oh god, as someone trying to get into media, what you said at 6:20 is 100% accurate. If you're not willing to work long hours for shit pay, your ass is on the next bus home, potentially to never return again. And people wonder why Writers' and Actors' unions exist.
Visual effects artists got screwed becoming popular after the reagan administration thoroughly destroyed unions.
Fantastic video Tree. The Bears are still looking at other places for their new stadium…now they are looking at Naperville and Aurora 🤦🏻♂️
Hell, their looking at Waukegan of all locations now, knowing damn well that their getting a shiny new Casino by 2026 and don't even have a location to start building what they have planned. They all just see dollar signs as if their all Mr. Krabs dude.
Something tells me this all isn't gonna end well.
@@bleakaux9289 yeah when I saw that I just laughed and said “Yeah ok….Waukegan is just as bad with crime than Chicago. Maybe not that much in the numbers but it’s bad regardless.
the mccaskeys and the media's "derr mah hard nose daaaa beears football" narratives for the stadium is annoying my dad's side of the family are life long chicago sports fans since even after they moved to pa in the early 70s so i know all about the clear tone deaf media and the mccaskeys compared to the fans
i remember telling my family whenever the "hard nose" excuses is used for why they keep soldier field "didnt that same 'hard nosed bears' team dominate the 80s and win a sb with astro turf and a smaller stadium ??"
A Stadium in Aurora or, he'll, even Joliet might be interesting. I wouldn't write it off quite yet
There should be a law where if any city or state pays for a stadium. They should have a share of ownership in the team.
That should never h appen. The goverment has enough power to seize property used for corrupt purposes.
@@chriskay1449 hate to break it to you, but there are thousands of examples of majority publicly owned shares of teams in the world world who aren’t as corrupt as the billionaire owned teams that strong arm the cities they reside in. The only places we’re it comes close to your government corruption you’re claiming is dictatorships.
look up who owns the new bills stadium. (hint: its not the pegulas)
everything is negotiatble
Winnipeg Blue Bombers of the CFL are an example. Their current 30,000 seat stadium went over by $100 million, but at least they are community owned.
Fan ownership is another ideal if stadiums are publicly funded. At least the people benefiting actually have a say on how the teams run. This works well in Green Bay as the Packers might be the only relevant thing in town asides from a university.
As a former Chargers fan, it hurt like hell when Dean Spanos abandoned us. The city was more than willing to work with him to get a new stadium in the existing Mission Valley area next to QUALCOMM. Dean, however, wanted a downtown stadium due to its lucrative land value. He never acted in good faith, and always wanted to move to Los Angeles. Now, he’s the owner of a team without a home with no real fanbase to speak of. I’m proud to say we are one of the few cities that said fuck you to an owner asking us to foot the bill of their ego shrines.
I live in Alberta. The Flames got $330 million in provincial money and even more city money for an arena as a pure election ploy in the middle of a massive affordability crisis and major cuts to healthcare and education. Its horrible.
There’s no question that the Saddledome is a dump, but they walked away over like $10 million and got an even better deal for vote buying. It’s a horrible deal for residents and we’re going to be paying it off for a long time.
It’s $800 million total, right?
We've been paying off the alternate's fuck ups since she was last in. She octupled our deficit. I've been in debt since. Do you have amnesia? Keep watching Castreau funded (tax funded) media propaganda.
The Oilers paid 165 million with Edmonton paying 312 million for Rogers Place. I love the Edmonton Oilers and I knew we needed the new arena as we couldn’ use the Northlands Coliseum forever
The real shit part is for those of us Albertan’s who don’t even live in Calgary 😢
I honestly was impressed with Oakland's city leadership. They knew that the A's owner was trying to extort them, and budget-wise, they couldn't afford it. Rather than let the owner's fleece them again for fancy stadiums they wouldn't be able to profit from, they left the table. Honestly more NFL cities should do the same. IIRC, the Dolphin's owner tried to get Miami to pony up for stadium renovations, and they told him to kick rocks. He ended up paying for it out of pocket.
Miami-Dade County had the political window to tell the dolphins to kick rocks after what Loria did with the Miami Marlins. Citizens got politicians kicked out with that move, South Floridians are still hesitant on funding stadiums because of that mess.
Oakland has been ripped mercilessly by fans around the country for not keeping their teams but this video shows they tried to play the stadium game and were burned in a major way. He didn’t even mention the $120M the city spent to renovate Oracle Arena in 1997 (220M in today’s dollars) Oakland had to force the Warriors in court to pay for their part of the renovations when they moved to San Francisco.
That would seem to work well for larger markets but the NFL is the league that abandoned fricken Los Angeles and Houston, the former losing two teams in a single year.
They got extorted way back in 1995 when they built Mt. Davis. It was useless and thus the Raiders still left again, the Warriors moved across to San Francisco, and the A's are on their way to Vegas.
Moral of the story: pay for your own stadium and you'll win a championship.
Like the 2021 Los Angeles rams and 2023 Vegas Golden Knights.
Did they fully pay for Emirates Stadium? That would explain a lot
no, Emirates was built and finished in 2006 while Stan Kroenke was a 11% stack holder in 2007 and only became the sole owner of AFC in 2018. However, Arsenal did fund their stadium completely privately which kind of goes to the point Zapdos is making. Arsenal's finances are some of the top of the EPL even better than Man City. Tifo Football TH-cam Channel (owned by the Athletic) did an amazing video on their finances @@FelipeYoshioCordeirodeSouza
see: th-cam.com/video/AdIGtl3ztJk/w-d-xo.htmlsi=zYK_0FZt60z44Eok
@@FelipeYoshioCordeirodeSouza Yes. They were a selling club for a decade to help pay it off.
The transition to the sponsor is smooth, nice one
1:05 "desperation leads to disaster, tale old as time" wise words from a wise man
“Everywhere I go, I see his face”
It's crazy how many teams just threaten to leave the city if they don't feel like they're getting whatever they want.
The Pirates threatened to leave Pittsburgh. Pittsburghers voted for them to leave. Our mayor then decided our votes don't count and gave the team funding for PNC Park. I believe we've got about 3 more decades of increased taxes to finish paying it off... of course in 3 decades it will be long since torn down and we'll already be paying for another park.
All payments, subsidies, incentives, etc., whether direct or indirect should be made illegal. That would end the shake downs. Hard to believe average taxpayers are gifting stadiums to billionaires. It's insane.
You forgot to mention the Wilfs. US bank is partly publicly funded, but the Wilfs payed off the entire stadium something like 20 years ahead of schedule out of pocket. Saved Minneapolis taxpayers close to $300 million
He forgot to mention Bob Nutting even though he opened the video promoting PNC Park. There were certainly some strange omissions in this one.
"Saved" lol.
Philadelphia is currently going through a situation like this. The Sixers are trying to strong arm the city into building a new arena downtown (all of the Big 4 stadiums in the city are located in a giant parking lot in South Philadelphia). The city and local populus are not buying it though. Mainly because the Sixers have exhausted most of their goodwill after years of continuous choking and the fact that they’ll probably be in a rebuild and will be awful by the time the new arena would be built.
And being a Dallas fan (who of course hates the Eagles), I like the Philly concept of having all the stadiums/arenas in one location. Especially with having true mass transit options.
I actually like Philadelphia's sports complex, being in a relatively tame location of the city as well as being right next to I 95 and just an exit away makes it the most convenient location for all the teams to be at.
"Trust the process"
I really miss the Vet and the Spectrum. Those were great times
Their threat to move to Camden helped lead to the construction of the Corestates/First Union/Wachovia/Wells Fargo Center though so they think it will work again. That said, the downtown arena would be a disaster. Not only will it destroy Chinatown, it will be a logistical nightmare.
Vegas is different than the average city when it comes to economic return from a stadium due to the non-NFL events Allegiant Stadium runs year-around via tourism from THE STRIP. In 2016 the "projected" Economic output was $620 mill/yr $231mill in Wages/Salaries to stadium employees, and 5,980 jobs......ACTUAL economic output in 2022? = $1.8 billion/yr (+185%) economic output, $443 mill (+92%) in wages/salaries, and 7,900 (32%) jobs. The $750 mill Allegiant Stadium got from a hotel room tax (not Clark County/Las Vegas general taxpayer fund) is a literal drop in the bucket to the economic impact the stadium has had on the city. It more than doubles what it was paid for every.single.year.
"socialize the costs, privatize the benefits" sums up the grift perfectly
tree, you forgot to mention the edmonton oilers nearly moving to seattle about 10 years ago. due to our owner Daryl Katz wanted a new arena (Rogers Place), when there was next to nothing wrong with Rexall
You literally summed up my Sport Finance class in 10 minutes. This is incredibly impressive and speaks to how much you know your stuff. Well done.
Hearing Tree talk about the economics of sports teams is very cool
Urinating Tree you are the man with your videos. They light fire under mediocre teams and rip consistently inconsistent teams and owners that hold cities hostage for public money for new stadiums.
It's weird though that he wouldn't mention the Pirates and PNC Park, especially since he promoted them at the beginning of the video. Pittsburghers voted against building PNC Park... but our mayor decided we didn't know what we wanted and gave the team funding anyway. My yet to be born grandchildren will still be paying increased taxes to pay off this park.
Might as well add the Capitals and Wizards to this list, Ted Leonsis is threatening to move them to Virginia if DC doesn't pay for upgrades to Capital One Arena.
It's odd that he didn't add the Pirates, considering Pittsburghers voted against building them a new park... but the owner and mayor got together and decided we didn't know what we wanted... and now my yet to be born grandchildren will still be paying off PNC Park.
@kenfresno2125 Well, I hope your child gets to experience the Pirates actually being GOOD by the time they reach adulthood
the funny part is that Chicago’s been through the same with their teams.
the Cubs have had a ton of renovations over the past 20 years to keep up with Fenway to boast themselves as the longest standing stadiums in baseball.
as for the Bears, the good thing for the Bears is that Soldier Field is owned by the city’s park district, so it could still be used as a concert venue if the team moves out. the bad thing is even after purchasing the rumored property for new digs in Arlington Heights, they’re still on Zillow to see if something’s better in Naperville, Aurora, or Waukegan.
Love seeing a new Tree video pop up on my feed 🫡
The 76ers want to move out of Wells Fargo Center and into an arena in center city and fans like me are upset at that. If you didn’t know, all the 4 major sports teams stadiums in Philadelphia are located in the same complex and are right off I-95 so they are easy to get to and that’s such a luxury when you compare it to other cities and seeing a team not understand it is upsetting to me, especially when Wells Fargo Center isn’t old.
Yea I need to know how much money the taxpayer will fork over; I don't trust Fetterman at all with this BS 1.3 Billion dollar Deal. and they whole "Trust the Process" I expect rioting.
I was thinking a bit about the Sixers during this video and how seemingly foolish Philly and the state of Pennsylvania will be if they allow the construction of a brand new place miles away from where all of the other sports related infastrucure already exists. I don't live in PA, but if I did, I'd be livid if they approved a whole new building before improving the one that they already have.
Why are the 76ers so desperate to move to Center City?
@@marcus813 an ESPN article from April mentions supporters wanting it to be based around public transit, and would bring “needed investment and development” into Center City. Other than that, they haven’t publicly mentioned a “need” to vacate the Wells Fargo Center, even saying that they’re not in a rush. Personally, it seems much more beneficial to keep everything sports related in one place in south Philly, since then you can have SEPTA operate the same trains towards the area for basketball and hockey as they would for baseball and football, parking lots can be shared between the venues, and it’s all right by I-95, allowing for easier access for fans from New Jersey, Delaware, or other parts of Pennsylvania not in Philly to access the area
Believe it or not the WF Center is nearly 30 years old. Strange to think of it that way but yeah, not a long time especially considering that the Vet was only 33 years old when it was imploded.
Kraken did the same thing with CPA that the Knights did, in large part because of how pissed the city still is over what Clay Bennett did with the Sonics
You just explained almost perfectly why, despite passion and loyalty, a lot cities will let a team leave before they dole out big money on them.
Amazing video - as an Englishman, the concept of having a sports team relocate is pretty much unheard of (there's a handful of cases, but none of them were high profile teams). Scary how much power these owners have
When you said "invasion of the dreaded furry menace", I thought the Phillies were coming to town and bringing the Phanatic.
If that's all there was to it, I'd laugh, and finish the video. Punching down furries is just douchebaggery. But I probably already agree with everything else he said on the subject of stadiums in the U.S. They promise a lot, deliver little in return, and rip off taxpayers in the process.
brb invading
When Hard Rock Stadium came time for rennovations, Stephen Ross tried to get the public to pay for it for years. He even dragged Dan Marino to court to advocate for the team!
He ended up paying for it on his own when no one caved and called out his relocation BS. The problem with this as Tree said beautifully was that most cities outside of the major ones do not have the leverage to call these owners on their bluffs. Kroenke paid out of pocket because LA is a city that is so lucrative for teams that they knew they didnt have to pay a dime and teams would line up to come.
The owners of the Chiefs and Royals are trying to get in on the action as well. KC is still paying for renovations to both stadiums through tax increases and then all of a sudden when it comes time to ask the voters if they want to extend it, the Royals ask for a new stadium, in downtown, with no parking lot, on land already owned by small businesses. Then all of a sudden the Chiefs come out and say they’ll move if it doesn’t go through. Guess what, the taxpayers saw right through it and it failed. Now both teams are trying to pressure other cities to make them offers. Like Dallas. And KCK.
This probably one of my favorite vids you have made! I have never had some one break down the stadium grift like that and make sense. Awesome vid Tree!
You should look into the park he promotes at the start of the video. Pittsburghers voted against building PNC Park, but our mayor just told us we didn't know what we wanted and gave the team the funding. The team has never won even a playoff series, has never spent money, and my yet to be born grandchildren will still be trying to pay off PNC Park.
Both the Vikings and Twins have very recently received new big money stadiums. Higher taxes in the city, all the cool pre-game bars that were there disappeared and now the city feels so boring.
Apparently, there is a correlation between Anthrocon happening and McCutcheon performing well. Should be a good weekend, then.
Did he tweet “furry” yet or does that come later?
@@KetchupColoredKnifeHe did
@@tehbeernerd I need to pick him up for my fantasy team asap
Awoo
@@WolfyRagnarok give me your baseball powers
These are the kind of videos I wish you’d do more.
Very imformative
I live in Nashville. I have for over a decade. Nissan stadium hosts a major event at least once every other week. This will only increase if they have a new modern stadium.
sure, but what's the revenue slice for the governments that put up the money? if the public puts up all the money but private companies take all the revenue then taxpayers are still getting screwed for taking on the risks
@@DM-yj9qf valid point. Nashville has one of the worst public school systems in the county… but let’s find stadiums. Greed is a powerful thing
As a longtime Oakland resident thanks for setting straight all the people ripping Oakland for being hesitant to hand the A’s money. They’ve already been burned and are still paying for it.
I’m excited for the new Jaguar stadiums. Looks like the Chicago Cloud Gate. Be rough watching them play else where though
the city hasnt actually agreed to pay for it yet. i live in jacksonville and i fucking hope they dont. not even cause im a patriots fan but because fuck giving billionaires money.
@@tr4v159153 Khan is definitely one NFL owner who can afford to build a stadium with his own money.
@@tr4v159153 unfortunately most people don't want the city to pay for it but Everbank Stadium (new name) is owned by the city of Jacksonville, so even if Khan would be willing to cough up a billion for the stadium, he legally cannot; the city would need to cover the majority of the cost.
Shit hole Jacksonville doesn’t deserve a NFL team.
I think that Vegas is a unique situation where it may actually being in outsiders and more spending. We saw it with the Raiders, the amount of away fans was quite high, and I'd expect the same with the A's, so it might actually be worth the public funding in that case, but only time will tell
It makes sense given how Las Vegas is almost entirely built around getting out of towners to come there and see things. This will draw in the sports fans (and the raiders are popular in LA which is easily drivable).
It's also fun that the team the locals care about is the one with the privately funded stadium.
Financially it will never be worth it. It’s about prestige, nothing more. Stadium and parks do not help the local economy. They never have and they never will. They just spread the entertainment money around locally while the owners take all the profits. That’s been proven time and time again, so much that’s an inarguable point.
Nobody is flying to Vegas to go watch their team play the A's in baseball. It's mostly locals showing up for MLB. Except for the people that are already there or planned on going there for vacation. When the A's suck ..the locals will dry up faster than a 60 year old prostitute.
this is why as a Jets fan i am proud to say the stadium we share with the Giants was 100% Privately financed not a Dime of Taxpayer money was spent on it
Should have built it in Manhatten.
You didn’t watch the video, did you? The stadium itself was privately financed… but not the upkeep.
@@tehbeernerd Eh, a downtown stadium does provide some boost to downtown spending (hotels, taxis, bars, etc.). It is almost never enough to justify the cost of construction, but it might be enough to cover the upkeep, or at least get close.
@@boosterh1113The Jets play in New Jersey, though. Nobody is going to the Meadowlands for anything else besides that ugly mall.
@@tehbeernerd True, although I will admit the public funding was mainly used to build a rail station/line connecting to the Meadowlands, which was 100% worth it. As someone who's a Giants fan and lives in NYC, the trek is way easier for NYC residents to get there than it was when it was the dump known as Giants Stadium.
A few things I want to add to your essay, which is very spot on considering how often the topic is quickly brushed under the rug by politicians.
Politicians look at more than just "tourists" to justify spending on a stadium. Tourism is an unrealsitic expectation for about 75% of franchise cities. Cities like Oakland, Indianapolis, Buffalo and St. Louis are never going to attract enough tourism to justify the spending of the facility. If anything, I imagine people would probably pay you money NOT to take them to St.Louis or Oakland. The reason most of the these stadiums get cleared is because it allows the local governments to put a stimulus into the local economy without outright just giving people money. As you mentioned in your video construction leads to a lot of pork in bills and that's largely tolerated because these project employ thousands of individuals for long periods of time in an industry that typically sees a employment booms and busts. Large scale projects like these keep people employed and keep them off your unemployment figures come election season.
Additionally, breads and circuses has been a viable political tactic since the days of Rome. Attracting a sports team gives your voters a distraction that keeps them at home instead of in the street protesting. Sports have long been a tool of modern government to both placate and control the masses to some extent. In small moderation, it can be fine. I don't think anyone really cares when the local mayor makes a jibe at a division rival, but the second it begins to rely on it as a distraction from public policy or as a medium by which you can direct hatred of your constituents at something other than your effectiveness, it becomes a problem. Its less pronounced in the US, but think about how radical and nationalized football teams can be in Europe or in South America as an example. If you don't think that can occur in the US, I'd ask you to walk into a Philly Sports bar with a Dak Prescott Jersey on.
The sad part of the Videotron Center is that it is really well thought out, everything there is top notch. Coming from a Habs fan with the Bell Center.
Another team/owner that privately funded their own area recently was warriors owner Joe Lacob, he payed for everything IN San Francisco and it was the reason it got done so quickly
That's one thing that made me appreciate the Warriors a lot.
Lacob built his new stadium with HIS OWN MONEY.
Same with the Giants. Oracle Park was almost all privately funded, and it’s one of the best stadiums in baseball, right on the waterfront
@@Zach-mw5so AMEN.
Oracle Park is proof that amazing stadiums can be built without Public funding. Makes me proud to be a Giants fan.
The same Lacob that tried to shaft Oakland on his way out you mean? That the city had to take him to court to get him to pay $120 million for the renovations the team received lol.
Over in MLS, Columbus Crew is a similar story.
Also NYCFC finally getting a stadium next to CitiField. Part of a rebuild of Willets Point area of Queens with public housing and new business developments. Will be interesting to see how that works out financially.
As with everything, the costs will skyrocket and the city will end up paying a ton of money out of pocket. Honestly the city is on the hook for a lot no matter what just on the required infrastructure that's going to be needed in Willets Point to handle what they want to build there.
Another great video Tree !! You're right about how every NFL team that wanted a stadium used Los Angeles for blackmail. The list 49ers, Cardinals , Vikings ,( and they did it twice ) Seattle, Chargers and the Rams again. What bothers me the most is the NFL makes enough money in three years to buy a new stadium for each team without public funding.
Funny thing is Vikings stadium has already been paid off. Both the Wilfs and the Public paid it off 20 years early. Apparently Pull Tabs which is a scratch off game is a great way raise revenue if you locate dispensers at bars.
Tree has got to be one of the best sports story tellers/ narrators on youtube
So glad we’re having this conversation. More teams should go the Gillette Stadium route - yes they host local concerts & Pats/Revs games, but they allocated land specifically to retail & entertainment. Not to mention that they’re medium and big box locations that attract a lot of people and wouldn’t necessarily have items that are easy to find online, so people have to go there. Another solution is what PG County, MD is doing with the FedEx Field area - they know the Commanders are gonna leave, so they’re just building housing there.
TLDR: don’t just build the stadium, make it an anchor site for other things that are year-round.
Great video as always. I hope you do a video on the MASSIVE failure of multipurpose stadiums. It makes sense on paper; why have two or more stadiums sucking up taxpayer money when you can have just one? In reality, vastly different sports needing different resources, different fields, different amounts of staff at vastly different times of the year causes problems that result in their failure. No. Exceptions.
I would disagree when it comes to arenas though. Better to build one arena and get two teams then build one for one and have the other hockey/basketball team play elsewhere.
@@ProudRegressive arenas are easier as the conversion is much simpler
@ProudRegressive I can't think of another market where the hockey and basketball teams play in separate arenas other than Minnesota. (Get this: the reason why the North Stars didn't move in with the Timberwolves at Target Center was over Pepsi vs. Coke)
I guess South Florida too (Heat in Miami proper, Panthers in Sunrise)
As a former stl Rams fan, this brings back too many horrific memories
In San Francisco, before the Giants pallpark was built, the surrounding area was comprised of rotting industrial type buildings/warehouses. Now, a thriving neighborhood with loads of housing/restaurants/companies surrounding the ballpark. Yes, a ballpark/stadium can bring economic benefits
And where did that money COME from? The people eating at those restaurants used to eat at restaurants elsewhere in SF. The companies that moved there used to do their business in another neighborhood. The people living in those houses used to live in another neighborhood.
@@Altasren it's called a free market, cope and seethe troll
@@Altasren there was nothing around Candlestick. When the Giants moved, they created a new thriving area at China Basin. Candlestick was a place that deserved to be deserted. Also, the Giants park was privately financed. They did get a few tax breaks, but those were paid off within 10 years.
San Francisco is a cultural wasteland, but not because of Oracle Park (is that still its name?)
there were cheaper less ways to make that neighbourhood thriving
Honestly, I'd have thought Las Vegas would be the one city where tourism WOULD be able to make up the costs for publicly funding new stadiums since it's got the Strip luring endless hordes of people into their casinos and resorts before draining their wallets dry like a leech. Ironic that the Golden Knights ignored this in favour of funding their arena themselves.
Now that I think of it, it actually makes a lot of sense for the team to fully own tmobile arena. They probably get a big cut from all the big ticket events that it hosts year round.
FACT: Your favourite sports team(s) do not have you or your communities best interests in mind.. They don’t give a shit about the city that they’re tied to, at all.
6:32 Having to be reminded (as a native) of what happened to St. Louis and the Rams is aggravating. The team being terrible for the better part of decade just to leave area, disparage the city, and leave the taxpayers to pay for an aging stadium that won’t be used to its fullest extent.
Olympic Stadium in Montreal nicknamed The Big Owe was one of the biggest overpriced blunders.
DETROIT.
City is broke, still climbing out of bankrupcy and yet they shelled out 500 MILLION to the Red Wings to build Little Casears' Arena.
Stadium cost like 800 million to build on top of that.
I’m guessing that the reason why Nashville is willing to pay $2.1B for their new stadium is because they’re banking on the city’s growth. Over the past two decades, the city’s metro population has practically doubled if not tripled. It’s one of the fastest growing major cities in the USA. I’m sure the cost won’t be that severe if the city keeps up its booming ways, but if not, then this stadium may become a giant pain in Nashville’s ass.
You're absolutely right, I'm from Nashville, born and raised. They have built so many new houses, apartment complexes, and businesses in the last 5 years or so, and they're still building a whole of shit in Nashville.
The Vikings and Minnesota paying off US Bank Stadium 23 years early feels like a huge contrast compared to all these other cities. And that was all after getting the Wild, Twins, and Gophers much better stadiums, plus a privately-funded MLS stadium.
Frankly, we needed it...badly. We lost the North Stars because they were stuck in a dilapidated stadium, and all the other teams were forced into playing in the Metrodome. Everyone hated it (Except me, lol).
Also, speaking of business investments, the whole Dome/US Bank area has been completely transformed since. It used to be a run-down concrete jungle.
You're still paying billions of dollars that you can't hope to pay back, and guess what? None of those teams have won even one championship.
It won't be long until the Wolves ask for a new arena too, and I'm sure Minnesota will cave again (especially when the team is good for the second time in their existence). They'll get the arena built and then resume sucking like every other team here
@@FirearmofMutiny What's your city?
@@mitchtellers2547 St. Paul suburb 😜 but I got out a while ago
@@FirearmofMutiny Leave it to another Minnesotan to have the most retarded stadium takes possible, lmao.
I'd bet you'd try to have the Wolves still play in the Metrodome if you could.
Doesn't matter how far you try to run...
You're stuck with us *F O R E V E R.*
I am hoping more cities and taxpayers see through the “it’ll be a tourist attraction” trap.
I would love to see a clause where if a new stadium is built, the team is obligated to stay for 25 years minimum. Props to the owners who pay for the stadium themselves.
that is kind of what Seattle have with the Seahawks. They went after Paul Allen to buy the team and he campaigned to get a deal for nowadays Lumen Field.
But there is a contract in place that if the teams is sold before april of 2024, 10% of the sale goes to the state of Washington because of their funding and all
As someone who lived in Montana his whole life, I've been wanting my own professional sports team in my state for years and just recently learning of the heartache fans go through just to even have a team in their own citys this makes me not want one hardly anymore. The emotional rollercoaster rides owners and politicians give taxpayers is messed up.
Yeah I think I'll keep being a fan of out of state teams and continue to hope that the UM Grizzlies get out of the FCS and into the FBS.
Strange that you didn’t mention the 76ers’ planned stadium in central Philadelphia. The proposal would put it in Chinatown, which has drawn the ire of pretty much everyone due to it already being torn asunder by Interstate 676.
It's far stranger that he didn't mention PNC Park... since he promoted it at the start of the video. We voted against building it, but the mayor told us we're idiots and gave the team funding. He has since spent the last 20 years living outside of the city and not paying the increased tax, while we're all stuck here paying it for 3 more decades.
The only thing that will make this to stop is go full euro mode and adopt 50+1 in ALL professional teams in USA, i doubt the Fans that have Club Membership would vote for recolocation
The Sports world is so corrupt and it’s sad
I know this is mainly a Big 4 sports page but Q2 Stadium in Austin, TX was built with private funds for Austin FC in the MLS. That stadium is unbelievable, a template for future soccer (and possibly NFL) stadiums and the citizens have thrown their full support behind the team. I don’t know how most of the Big 4 owners sleep well at night knowing they’re kneecapping the markets they represent considering they’ll make the revenue back tenfold if they put a good product out there.
While I look at the positives of Grossi's 30in30 fundraising tour, this upload is the reality check we ALL need to get a clue about ownerships and the stadiums we build for them
Keep up the good work Tree. It's a shame how many are still loyal toward sports. The relocation threats. Hell, I grew a Charlotte Hornets (pre-Bobcats), Cincinnati Bengals, Ottawa Senators, and Houston Astros fan. I have seen almost of all of them either get threatened with relocation, relocate, or bleed tax payers dry. It's digusting. People vote to not waste tax money but they'll be more passionate about voting against "wokeness" then giving millions to billionaires undercutting the same tax waste they whine about to begin with. I honestly don't know why people still care about sports. I've left it where it deserves to be, my childhood.
Voters and politicians need to stop approving of government spending for private ventures. Governments have no responsibility to fund sports teams or any other private company.
Pittsburghers voted against PNC Park... the mayor then told us we were stupid and gave the team funding anyway. This has absolutely NOTHING to do with the populace, and everything to do with the politicians. It doesn't matter if you vote against these proposals, or boycott, or protest... they don't care. They're going to do whatever they need to do so they can get a fat kickback when they leave office.
Let me know how putting the proverbial foot down worked for Oakland
@@FirearmofMutiny If they leave they leave. No city is entitled to any sports franchise or business for that matter. If they stay, they stay. If they leave they leave.
Cities should never put up more than 25% of a project’s funding.
The money doesn’t come back. If a football team wants a stadium, build it or socialize the profit.
Or piss off.
“Furries.”
- Andrew McCutchen
82,000 People went to see Arsenal v. Man United at Metlife Stadium. At 150 being the get in price * 82,000 = $12.3 Million. $12.3 Million * NJ Sales Tax at 6.625% is $814,875 in sales tax revenue alone assuming all seats were sold at the min. Many seats were 3 to 4x the price. Then Parking at $40 with 23,000 parking spots. Then Concessions. Stadium collected probably 1.2million for the state of NJ in sales tax alone that day. Multiply that by the min 19 NFL games held every year not including the playoffs for the Giants and Jets. The 3 Taylor Swift Shows. That is only 1 years worth of revenue not counting other smaller events. Other years Metlife has seen Wrestlemania, Copa America, in 2026 the world cup, the NHL stadium series 2024, and the super has been played or will be played Metlife. So we are looking at 25 million a year generated in sales tax by the stadium at min with a conservative estimate. In less than 10 years the Stadium sales tax revenues paid off the all of the 250million in area improvements. Thats a good Return on Investment for the state of NJ.
Here's a relatively simple solution for owners to maintain government funding. For the duration of the stadium/arena being open, all parties split profits proportional to how much they spent for construction. Let's say an arena will host both an NHL and NBA team. Let's say this arena will cost $500 million. The NBA team pays $75 million, the NHL team pays $100 million, and the city pays the remaining $325 million. Each party would split profit based on their share of construction costs. In this scenario, the NBA team gets 15%, the NHL team gets 20%, and the city gets 65%. Over several years, each party would more than make up their initial investment.
Wonderful idea!!
Great video as usual Tree! I liked all the examples that you gave of how so many cities have been screwed over into building these stadiums/arenas for the owners. I visited Fenway Park last month and I guess that's what makes places like that (Wrigley Field, Lambeau Field, etc.) special. I'm guessing the owners of those teams (not the Packers, they are an exception) have tried to get new stadiums in the past but they are still standing.
5:16
As a hungarian, I didn't know that the Budapest metro line cost that much
From what I can guess (based on how corrupt our government can be), a nice chunk of that $1.6 billion went to the corporate people who got permission to build the thing and the politicians.
When I first saw the graph I busted out laughing, beacuse I find it funny how a small and insignificant country like ours can get on such a list. Sadly as I eluded to earlier, corruption is a big reason why.
I wish the vid would have mentioned the 49ers POS owner situation. The city of Santa Clara actually negotiated a somewhat decent deal to get paid if they financed the team's new stadium, but after about 3 yrs of that the team owner stopped paying, paid off 80% of the city council to not enforce the contract, fired the city attorney for trying to enforce the contract, and is doing everything in his power to make sure the city doesn't get any of the money they negotiated... if there is a just god in this universe that team owner will get the most aggressive ass cancer that ever existed
The fans need to be willing to let a team leave without going after politicians.
San Diego pretty much did that despite offering the Chargers money to stay. It wasn’t enough though
It's a terrible use of space that could become a new shopping center, or a piece of downtown with a robust, mixed-use development code. It's so dumb.
0:14 nonono tree, you *want* anthrocon to be happening because that means andrew mccutchen will transform into statistically one of the greatest batters of all time
This is an excellent piece, not full of professional pleasantries, but rather fueled by passion. The very thing that the fans give each day, before greed and opportunity gets in the way. I really appreciate your work, Tree.
Makes ya wonder how Minnesota manages to pay off their new stadium 23 YEARS in advance 😮
Selling meat from all the carcasses of the birds that fly into it?
Pull tabs, PSLs, and Tax-happy Democrats is how. They are raising taxes even higher now even though we have a $9 Billion surplus - which they voted to spend it all away.
It's good that US Bank Stadium is paid off early tho.
We also have a state-of-the-art clause, however.
Sad thing is that most sports fan are poor locals who get most affected by the cuts that the counties have to make. Then, they complain about it, a unscrupulous politician comes by with a scapegoat and the cycle starts again.