What do you think intelligent Aliens would look like? UPDATE: Event Horizon 2.0 is almost here. Full announcement soon about a podcast archive that includes all of Event Horizon and all of John's channel, EARLY access to ad free episodes (sometimes months early), music and non music versions of EH episodes, bonus interviews, audio books, and a new show hosted by a familiar voice.
I think that would depend on their environment and evolution. Yet at the back of my mind, due to being raised on star trek, i somehow think a humanoid shape perhaps with four legs instead of two, like a centaur, might be "Normal." interesting talk, really enjoyed it.
You forget not Thursday, rather, you forget the best poster on you tube graces us all in the evening on this day, so you may be happily surprised again and again.
So good. My ONLY complaint is that you two didn't talk about gravity's tendency to have caused the mouth, nose, eyes setup for so many Earthlings. Eyes evolving on top to FIND food. Nose to triangulate upon it and locate it. Mouth to consume it, lowest to the ground. All of this comes from natural selection and gravity sort of accidentally working together - from when we were slugs to now. Fantastic, fantastic discussion. JMG asks so many good, interesting and probing question and Arik Kershenbaum really delivers. I plan to listen to The Zoologist's Guide to the Galaxy next week. Already bought it.
@@Bronco541 it’s definitely fact but I don’t know if there’s a name for it. It’s obvious if you look around at the entire animal kingdom. I can’t speak for *every* microbe or microscopic creature but heck even tardigrades work this way.
@@towedarray7217 the orientation of the mouth thing is very prevalent but there's supraterminal and terminal fish mouths, and I think the position of the eyes has more to do with the fact that light comes (obviously) from above, which isn’t directly related to gravity. Now that i think of it the position of the mouth in vertebrates is a consequense of evolving from bentic fish. Were they evolved from surface feeding fish, tetrapod predators would look perhaps like some kind of chameleon-pirayagua mix, with a very high mouth and side projecting, front facing eyes.
One of the important things to remember about aliens is that if we're going to be all properly Copernican about it, they should all be as different from _each other_ as they are from us, which I think implies that intelligent beings will exist on various spectra of similarity & difference, and we might meet giant cyborg starfish-siphonophore things who uncannily remind us of people we know back home (or like the Tines from _A Fire Upon the Deep_ who are hive minds we have a ton in common with), next to disappointingly humanoid beings whose minds are utterly incomprehensible. Also tho I wonder if any species is more likely to first encounter more similar beings first, since they'd be looking for each other in the same places.
I do agree in principle but its easy to let our imaginations run wild. There are constraints to intelligence and tool use and frankly if you don't need it to survive then chances are you won't end up developing it. Many groups were very successful with relatives limited intelligence even compared to a lot of mammals. Dinosaurs had their own set of characteristics that allowed them to thrive for well over a hundred million years on earth. So its not at all unlikely that if you replayed Earth's history that you'd end up with humans or technology using lifeforms.
I applaud you for this excellent episode. I was literally listen to this while working as a biologist (determining, sorting, and quantifying meiofauna from the deep sea into higher taxa), and this interview kept me afloat. Thanks so much, and what a brilliant interviewee Dr. Kershenbaum was.
Natural laws may lead to familiar solutions, but familiarity also cuts the other way - many bring up cephalopods as an example of the infinite possibilities of alien anatomies, but to me, they are more an example of something completely different: our capacity to relate to and become familiar with even deeply dissimilar beings to ourselves, given time and exposure. Familiarity is more a function of time and exposure than of similarity, after all. Similarity merely reduces the time to achieve familiarity by allowing the familiarization of the past to apply to new encounters. Dogma and bias hamper this capacity through discrimination not by making familiarity difficult, but by providing a false image to be familiar with before an individual discovers reality through experience - crucially, it does so in a way that is lacking in nuance and therefore heuristically easy. I think it's far more effective to show victims of dogma that they were lied to from the outset than publicly shame them and declare that they are wrong, but I digress. In any case, I personally believe writers (especially science fiction writers, no offense ;) ) and scientists alike tend to vastly underestimate humanity's capacity to turn the world-shaking revelatory discoveries of today into the simple mundanities of tomorrow. Perhaps the true limits of human boredom are extended more by each discovery than each discovery can move us towards them... a sort of intellectual cosmic horizon. Perhaps, given that the horizon would be pushed ever further by each _event_ of both discovery and imagination, it would be appropriate to call this a "cognitive Event Horizon". ...Perhaps.
The eternal batchelors that loose any sign of civilization in their appearance. Why bother with clothes when you can skip that and never ever have to the laundry again? 😉
54:35 ish... yes there is interspecies communication....I think... During hunting season, Ravens will alert everybody to your location if they spot you, same with flying squirrels...I've noticed squirrels yelling at just about every species, " my nuts, my nuts, stay away from my @#$%& nuts!!!"
the last question made me think of a funny story. we had an african grey who would spend hours giving our dogs commands. making them sit, lie down and so on with my grandmothers voice. the parrot would also drop a treat like a banana slice or a grape every now and then so the dogs stick around and dont get bored. this would go on for several hours at least with one dog. this dog would have done anything for a treat lol. I think at first the dogs where confused and did it thinking it was my grandma shouting from another room, but later figured it out and continued doing it for the treats.
Intelligence for me is that its soo rare its almost impossible because it takes sooo long to involve to our level that its rare for a planet to be safe that long without planet changing events happen
We so need a ‘Part 2’ to this, with more discussion around technological Aliens - I.e. likelihood of them having a humanoid appearance, thumbs for tool making etc., and whether water/liquid dwelling Aliens could develop technologically given that fire would be difficult..? Thanks for the vid though 🙏
I discovered the two of your channels here in TH-cam, and... Danm! This is true gold. I am into knowledge, but your work is another level. Thank you for this, and congratulations!
53:27. Our bodies are biological robots that our mind uses to interact with the physical world, there's no reason why we couldn't build better ones in the future that an "uploaded" mind could use
@ soul is a religious thing believe what you want. Currently we don't have a great definition nor objective measurement of consciousness. So now we cannot do it, but I generally don't accept that there's anything magical about our existence so I think it's reasonable to assume, given enough time, it will be figured out.
Damn, JMG ... Due to a power outage in my region, internet is down . So, I got on my bike and went to the office building just to download your video then I'm going back home and I'll have my weekly EH video for bedtime . Sheesh. 🤗
One of the best guests ever. And great interview. I was expecting at some point, given some of the topics, we would veer into science fiction futurism, but we didn't. Thx.
I personally think most aliens would look like our sea life. I think land life would be extremely rare. There are many body plans that work in our seas from fish, crabs, starfish, jellyfish even corals.
@@spindoctor6385 If they’re stuck in the oceans, they’re never going to become an Advanced space faring civilization, those are the ones that really matter.🤷♂️
@@Barabel22 That is kindof my point, although I do not believe that living in water completely eliminates the chance of technology, I do believe that it is enough of a factor to drastically reduce the existence of space travelling creatures to the point of statistical insignificance. I see no reason at all to believe that technology is any more than a side effect of the extremely rare type of intelligence that just so happened to be a successful evolutionary tactic for 1 species on 1 planet for what is so far an extremely short period of time.
In regards to inter species communications here on Earth. As someone who has spent a decent portion of my life in the woods I can tell you that every creature in the forest knows what a particular crow caw means. The same with squirrels and all their clicking and thumping, deer know this means something is in the forest that is a danger. I know that some chimps have a certain vocalization for a snake in the area and would be willing to bet that other creatures in the area know what the call means. Great episode as is usual.
ET, Close encounters, Arrival, A Quiet Place and a lot more. All nude! I appreciate it would be hard enough designing an alien, let alone what they might wear, but it would be great if you could do a video on that subject 🤙
Interesting! having clothes enabled humans to venture into habitats not suited for them, then the leap to having space, diving suits, boats, bikes, exo-skeleton’s and airplanes etc are logical next steps: don’t adept physically environment, create means to enable your physique to deal with it. Maybe tool making as an evolutionary tale are a bit overrated, clothes making might be equally important in our evolution, but hides and fabrics aren’t preserved as well as axes and spears.
I choose to believe that they look like elf's gnomes goblins and dwarfs cause otherwise I should sell the giant box of multi sided dice ive been carrying around like a treasure since 6th grade lol
@@YOOTOOBjase NEVER someday I will sell them with the 3 beany babies i found after my sister went to college back in 97 lol its my retirement plan you cant have it!
If we spread out in the universe and genetically engineer ourselves to fit each world we definetly could end up there. Dwarfs would fit nicely on high gravity worlds for instance while the elves with their slim bodies would do better on low gravity worlds.
Would it then end up being the same kind of phylum/classification on Earth like worlds, with amphibians, avian, reptile, mammal, arthropod, etc type species(both intelligent and unintelligent)? Life would go down similar paths to Earths?
@@thedoruk6324 Makes me think that the reported alien species from UFO/Alien encounters and experiences have some biological truth to back them up. If the reported species(Grays,Reptilian,Insectoid/Mantid, some animal like ones) evolved on Earth like planets with similar biospheres…hmm. Note, I think 90-95% of UFO/Alien encounters can be explained, but there’s a good number with a “High Strangeness” factor and capabilities that only really have a few remaining explanations.
@@Barabel22 I really concur that if the habitable planets conditions are earth like the results should be earth habitats esque whereas the same evolutionary pathways even seen today and beforehand proven by fossil records and current studies additionally for a sentient species a bipedal and somewhat humanoid posture with grasping read hands ability would be most suitable not the non humanoid shapeless veague entities that got the bandwagon nowadays
I have a hard time believing that a life form that lives in a sub-surface ocean, with it's entire "universe" contained in that finite space, could develop anywhere near human being's level of intelligence. Just the lack of access to the stimuli of the outside world would be extremely limiting. They'd have no concept of beyond, or elsewhere, or anything more.
Their intelligence is evolving alongside us, as we are indeed becoming that stimulus for them in so many ways, from rec fisherman catching them to the dolphin trainers. So many things to consider in monitoring behaviours and intelligence.
With regards to communication, I am surprised Dr. Kershenbaum did not mention odor / smell. Or is that not considered complex enough to be mentioned in this context?
The 'stereotype' for aliens is 'the "insectizoids" e.g. from movies "Alien", "Starship Troopers", "Enders Game" ... etc etc. but I dunno I can forsee more horrendous looking life forms being winners out there in the universe .. think John Carpenter's "The Thing".
I suspect that the alien in The Thing took over the body of the original pilot of that ship. Anyway there are an episode on Star Trek Next Generation that are practically a rip off of The Thing.
Totally possible. In fact, life on earth arose under very different atmospheric conditions to now. There was little oxygen, and a lot of hydrogen and helium around in those days. The hydrogen and helium slowly escaped into space blown away by the solar wind, and when photosynthesis evolved it oxygenated the atmosphere drastically altering it. But other atmospheres that might support microbial life could be carbon dioxide, very high purity nitrogen as at Titan, and so on. So for atmospheric gases, there are lots of options for microbes. But for complex life, the choices get narrower and oxygen becomes a necessary component due to its wide ranging reactivity.
Also remember that capability to support life and capability to evolve life are different things. One way to search for alien civilisations are to look for worlds that support life where it shouldn't be able to develop any meaning that someone are adapting that world.
It's quite interesting that all the varieties of birds are traced back to dinosaurs. But isn't it so interesting that there are so few mammals (can only think of bats) that fly? So imagine if the dinosaurs didn't go extinct...
It is surprising that bats are the only mammals capable of sustained flight. I’d wager that if birds didn’t make it through the extinction event, we’d see a lot of mammals filling those niches. As it is, probably hard to compete with the already supremely adapted species of birds.
They would look like Skinny Bob? There's plenty of pictures of skinny Bob on the Internet? He was a part of the crash retrieval program? If you can find that there's actually live video of him?
A good book I just read is called the zoologists guide to the galaxy- it covered questions like this and how the evolutionary paths would be different on different planets but def interesting and worth checking out
@@EventHorizonShow very kind gentle answer. Nice one JMG. BTW - I heard that rock song named after you - very cool also. Maybe use that as the Halloween opening music?
Communication over long distance is not only the domain of sound: although more biological, many animals communicate very clearly and over even longer distances (and time) through scent: excreting pheromones is very effective in marking territory or communicating it’s time to procreate.
Try something that looks like either the KZIN or the Pierson's Puppeteers (Larry Niven and his Tales from Know Space) Of course, the Andorians, the Vulcans, the Klingons, the Ferengi, ect
At least Star Trek tried to account for the overabundance of humanoid races with only foreheads and ears that are different. The episode is TNG: The Chase.
Great interview as always. Not sure I agree with all of his assertions, especially around technological intelligence as a convergent outcome. Also dubious to claim the climate crisis has a 50/50 chance of completely wiping out the human race. Massive death and destruction, perhaps. But toss up odds of ending a species that survived an ice age and countless other disasters is not exactly well-informed in my opinion. Regardless enjoyed it and great questions as always!
> Also dubious to claim the climate crisis has a 50/50 chance of completely wiping out the human race. Yes, it is quite baffling that a serious scientists would make this claim.
Why would technological intelligence NOT be a convergent outcome? All technology is is altering the nature of the universe to your will. That’s a fundamental aspect of any advancement. Technically, making a fire with sticks and a flint is considered ‘technology’. But it’s just… common sense that an intelligent species would end up with some form of technology. A species has to wonder "why" and "what if" to truly be considered intelligent. As for the climate thing, I don’t know what other ‘countless’ disasters you mean but in regards to the ice age… it’s much easier to warm up and it is to cool down. You can prevent death from the cold by heating up, but if the entire planet is hot as hell, there will be literally no escape from the heat. People like you are the ones who down play serious issues as if they can’t ever happen.
@@TheSCPStudio Intelligence isn't a substitute for common sense. People have proven this. Some use it simply to mollify themselves and exercise avoidance out of fear of hardship. I'd suspect mostly subconsciously.
@@TheSCPStudio There are certainly things we can do to cool the planet if it gets bad enough. Solar shades and carbon capture to name just two. We already have the technology to do it should the dire need arise. You clearly have a lack of understanding regarding our capabilities here. I’m not downplaying anything - it’s a serious problem. But it is ridiculous to say it’s a species ending one. Regarding technological intelligence, I would say our planet is 4 billion years old, and to the best of our knowledge humans are the only species to ever develop past fire. And we were at that primitive stage for hundreds of thousands of years. Unlike other convergences such as flight, four legs, sight, etc, there is literally no example of similar convergence to anything considered a true technological and civilized species. Humans are it in the entirety of our planet’s history. Not a strong case for convergence. Isaac Arthur (a multi-time guest and friend of JMG) has a good video on the concept of rare intelligence if you’re interested in understanding the criticism of this claim: th-cam.com/video/0xbSHn4Fbu4/w-d-xo.html
The second intelligent Gensis on earth is a fascinating question! If the question is: will a genesis occur after humans are extinct? I think the answer is yes. If the question is will earth experience a second intelligence genesis while humans exist on earth? I'd say the answer is no. Dolphins and whales, regarded as the smartest sea mammals, evolved to go back in the sea. Life in the sea, is not favorable to tools or industry. You look at other sea creatures and they barely can think past their base needs, if at all. I think overtime whales and dolphins will regress in intelligence. Apes are an interesting exception but I think we will sadly push them to extinction before they evolve to a higher intelligence
Badgers and Coyotes often Hunt together. The coyote will chase prey into its den and the badger will go in and get it. Or the badger will chase prey out of its den and the Coyote will intercept it. Then they share the spoils. If that doesnt take complex or at least more than simple communication im not sure I understand the concept at all.
Describe the contact. Detecting a faint, artificial radio blip in a faraway galaxy is one thing; the arrival of a Vogon Construction fleet in Earth orbit is another; ten billion hawt chicks from Arcturus here for two weeks on spring break is yet another. Significance varies accordingly.
@@bozo5632 I choose the third option if that is allowed. Only to find out that Arcturians beauty standards are significantly different from ours. There are also the possibility of a gigantic anti climax when we find out that some well know micro organism that have been with us since practically forever actually have alien orgins. Not that those would be an advanced civilization but one could have intentionally or unintentionally left the micro organism behind during a brief visit many millions of years ago.
I imagine some wierd looking but practical starfish aliens. It would be funny if they despite this are mentally just like us down to the equivalent of our many cultural expressions.
I agree that life can be very different on other planets, but I disagree that it doesn't take land to get to technology. I beleive that a technological society does have to be terrestrial and not aquatic. Fire was a needed step. Controlled Electricity was a needed step. These just will not happen in an equatic society.
I don't think there's any one "great filter" that makes intelligent life uncommon. Instead, I think its the simple fact that there are so many filters along the way to technology that accounts for its rarity in the universe.
Yeah though I think another big factor recently identified in combination of spectroscopic survey data with GAIA astrometry is the Milky way galaxy's star formation history. The very surprising finding that star formation slowed to a trickle after the merger with the GAIA-Enceladus/Sausage galaxy around 9 billion years ago and only resumed around 6 billion years ago with the collision between the Milky Way and the original dwarf spiral galaxy that has become the Sagittarius dwarf spheroidal galaxy and its associated ongoing merger. The initial starburst from this merger appears to have been responsible for more than half of the stars the Milky Way has ever formed (i.e. including all the short lived massive stars) and it is extremely likely to have included the formation of our Sun since the Sun formed near the tail end of the starburst episode when star formation rates were dropping but still extremely high. Thus based off the distinct metallicity variation and rate of star formation if metallicity based filters are important as seems probable in the case of phosphorus, at least for life as we know it, then that alone might be enough to solve the "fermi paradox". Phosphorus nucleosynthesis as far as we know only really can occur during Oxygen burning which can only occur in sufficiently massive stars as the second to last energy producing fusion stage which only lasts around ~200 days with the star in question undergoing a core collapse supernovae 2 days later. Most of the oxygen gets fused into silicon with only a small percentage getting fused into phosphorus and much of that will be destroyed in the ensuing supernovae either getting fused into heavier elements in the extreme conditions and or falling into the stellar remnant thus an individual supernovae will likely only release a small fraction of that the only way to really produce a large amount of phosphorus at once seems to be in the dying days of a rapidly rotating Wolf-Rayet star where centrifugal effects can help propel the expelled outer layers away from the star before it goes supernovae. Given that rapidly rotating Wolf-Rayet stars are thought to be the primary progenitors of long duration gamma ray bursts... it is safe to say you don't want to many of them. Instead as these stars form in the heart of a high mass star formation region the main way it is thought the produced phosphorus gets out into the galaxy at large is via the secondary stars that form in the vicinity of the ejecta of the massive GRB progenitor so it should be reasonable to expect a delay from peak star formation and the greatest odds of phosphorus rich planetary systems. Of course there is potentially some evidence to suggest the Sun may have formed in the presence of a Wolf Rayet star (though this has been contested by others largely pointing out that high mass star formation regions are poorly understood and remains unconfirmed) it is thus feasibly possible that the Sun could be a direct recipient of Phosphorus from a Wolf Rayet star in which case only a small subset of stars may be able to meet habitability criteria. There are still too many unknowns as it is hard to compare the amounts of rare trace elements in particular stars. Well incidentally regarding the GAIA astrometry it seems that the other galaxies that compose the local group also seem to have a significant drop off in star forming rate after the first few billion years, this supports the growing evidence that the Local Group is within a large cosmic void, currently the largest known though it is also of course the youngest and thus that is likely biasing the results. It could very well turn out to be the case that life can only sufficiently develop to complexity/intelligence etc. in sparsely populated under dense regions of the Universe i.e. cosmic voids.
I’m excited to watch this one. I’m glad you don’t immediately discredit the recent UAP/UFO phenomenon. You seem genuinely interested in it and I can appreciate that.
I would be remiss if I ignored it or dismissed it. There's just too much out there now for that after all the Nimitz pilots and personnel came out. There's something to it that we need to get to the bottom of.
@@JohnMichaelGodier couldn’t agree more. You should talk to someone from the Nimitz encounter. Kevin Day and David Fravor are great but they are all class acts. Keep up the good work JMG!
While I too don't think telepathy is particularly likely, it's more through the physics of how such a thing might work, rather than the stated lack of evolutionary impetus. Knowing what a predator is thinking would be an ENORMOUS evolutionary advantage even without transmission. In fact, the reading of minds doesn't require any transmission at all to work at a practical level, if you're reading somethings mind and it's reading yours then bam communication right there. No transmission needed. I think that the answer is actually that it's likely much simpler to to evolve a mind that is a better predictor of action than it would be to evolve some means of reading the thoughts of something else. In fact, if such a thing were possible(and it seems like it's not as far as we can see, or at least not practical in any way) you might even assume that a telepathic entity would actually have a lower intelligence because why would it need to develop a complex mind capable of predicting the future actions of predators or other members of it's own species when it can just know? While predictive capacity is useful outside of predicting the actions of others, it would seem like there would be less evolutionary pressure to develop a complex mind on top of telepathy. Even more so of something that has precognition (which seems even more impossible than telepathy). A precognitive entity would have no reason at all to develop intelligence, as it already knows what's going to happen and doesn't need a complex predictive mind. If that were a thing, you might assume you could find some kind of precognitive slugs or something. TLDR: The idea that mind reading holds no evolutionary advantage if it were possible seems laughably wrong.
Lmao Demi Lavato would be outraged right now! Calling them “aliens” is considered derogatory according to her. We need to respect them by calling them Extra Terrestrials 😂😂
Yes, we should call them ETB or ETI's. If I refered to the Native American population as "the Indians , or some Indian thing" it may not be hostile but it's already a sign of ignorance, tribalism, primitive insight, and grouping. It's not particularly horrendous but may be seen as ignorant or disrespect. Respect isn't mandatory here.
Mind blown (piqkeeuw); between this episode and that recent one about "information" i have a lot more to think about other than wondering if hobos are aliens in disguise.
Wow, this was surprisingly very interesting. Not the typical how would aliens look like video. Thanks! I wonder though, why wasn't by 'chemicals' not mentioned as a logical method of communication? On earth it might even be the most used by almost all species. Also, 10 limbs is also quite common: shrimps, lobsters, form a siginificant part of our (salt-)waterbiotopes.
Another fantastic interview, JMG! Thanks a lot! 😃 It was almost hearing what I think myself. I totally agree with Dr. Arik Kershenbaum. I'm definitely going to look for his book! 😃 Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
The topic of how many limbs remines me of a conversation with a farmer who was experimenting with genetically modified chickens. He and his team had modified a chicken so that it had 3 pairs of legs. He told me they would be 40% more profitable than a two legged chicken. I thought that was interesting and asked him if they tasted like normal chicken's legs. He was unable to answer telling me he'd never been able to catch one! Sorry it's Friday.
The first steps of intelligence are taken by many, many species. Human intelligence comes from tool use, also demonstrated by different species. The mastering of fire an metallurgy though, seems like a niche development that only fits a limited set of ecosystems (land). And those enabling ecosystems need to be present at a world for human like intelligence to emerge. Those conditions might be rare, even if (complex) life can be on many places.
This really is fascinating.Great conversation. I appreciate all the work you put in to these videos.I hope the answers will be discovered in my lifetime.
It's a cool thought that we might be visited by aliens who have come looking for a civilization that existed here a billion years ago and subsequently vanished. In doing so they'd bring us their radio transmissions they've collected on their way here, and let us discover our planet's primordial history.
Maybe best podcast I’ve ever heard. The shark got me. My response was so quick I realized my species had seen that enough before to store that away inside. Realizing all the species on this planet have evolved together and watched each other grow up and eat each other.
Evolution is a thing to be more specific convergent evolution. I think that alien life will be similar but differ in the details. Creatures in the ocean will have the shape of sharks, molluscs, octopuses, slugs, etc. The same goes for land creatures, certain shapes repeat in the animal kingdom because they are efficient for that particular niche. As far as intelligent life goes, I think that they will be bipedal with eyes in front of their face, have arms and hands like appendages that are dexterous and nimble enough to make tools. They might differ in the details like having different skin more or less than 5 fingers or being able to see the rest of the light spectrum but I suspect that they are similar to what we see here on earth now or in the fossil record.
You should make a more careful distinction between “electricity” and sensing a dc electric field or a high frequency field. In that respect, bioluminescence is communication by electricity.
Hello John I'm a new subscriber I really appreciate the hard work you put into your podcast. I feel personally the James Web telescope is going to be a game changer in the search for life. The universe is so vast the probabilities of life in all forms is a given it's just finding the right tech to find it.
Glad you found us! We’re excited about JWST as well. Here’s a recent episode discussing its capabilities. The Most Powerful Space Telescope Ever with Dr. Klaus Pontoppidan th-cam.com/video/gk_-Z_a3Ar4/w-d-xo.html
What do you think intelligent Aliens would look like?
UPDATE: Event Horizon 2.0 is almost here. Full announcement soon about a podcast archive that includes all of Event Horizon and all of John's channel, EARLY access to ad free episodes (sometimes months early), music and non music versions of EH episodes, bonus interviews, audio books, and a new show hosted by a familiar voice.
Very advanced
I think that would depend on their environment and evolution. Yet at the back of my mind, due to being raised on star trek, i somehow think a humanoid shape perhaps with four legs instead of two, like a centaur, might be "Normal." interesting talk, really enjoyed it.
Slime mould. Dressed in snazzy tight fitting spandex suits.
@@andyoates8392 MMmm you ever been to my gym?
giant brains with tentacles. i dream about it all the time.
I love it when I forget it's Thursday evening...like finding a twenty in your back pocket!!
You forget not Thursday, rather, you forget the best poster on you tube graces us all in the evening on this day, so you may be happily surprised again and again.
Me too
True words 👏 regards to you from Australia.
@@waynebridges.9289 gooday sheila, from uk 🇬🇧
Thanks for reminding me! Means just one more 12 hour shift and then two days off ✌
Perfect timing for my train trip to London. Thank you for sharing John, such an interesting subject
Have a great trip Steve!
@@steverafferty4114 London? Nice knowing you, lol. Like going to San Fransisco, heh.
So good. My ONLY complaint is that you two didn't talk about gravity's tendency to have caused the mouth, nose, eyes setup for so many Earthlings. Eyes evolving on top to FIND food. Nose to triangulate upon it and locate it. Mouth to consume it, lowest to the ground. All of this comes from natural selection and gravity sort of accidentally working together - from when we were slugs to now. Fantastic, fantastic discussion. JMG asks so many good, interesting and probing question and Arik Kershenbaum really delivers. I plan to listen to The Zoologist's Guide to the Galaxy next week. Already bought it.
is this an actual scientific theory about the face? or just personal speculation?
@@Bronco541 it’s definitely fact but I don’t know if there’s a name for it. It’s obvious if you look around at the entire animal kingdom. I can’t speak for *every* microbe or microscopic creature but heck even tardigrades work this way.
@@towedarray7217 the orientation of the mouth thing is very prevalent but there's supraterminal and terminal fish mouths, and I think the position of the eyes has more to do with the fact that light comes (obviously) from above, which isn’t directly related to gravity. Now that i think of it the position of the mouth in vertebrates is a consequense of evolving from bentic fish. Were they evolved from surface feeding fish, tetrapod predators would look perhaps like some kind of chameleon-pirayagua mix, with a very high mouth and side projecting, front facing eyes.
One of the important things to remember about aliens is that if we're going to be all properly Copernican about it, they should all be as different from _each other_ as they are from us, which I think implies that intelligent beings will exist on various spectra of similarity & difference, and we might meet giant cyborg starfish-siphonophore things who uncannily remind us of people we know back home (or like the Tines from _A Fire Upon the Deep_ who are hive minds we have a ton in common with), next to disappointingly humanoid beings whose minds are utterly incomprehensible.
Also tho I wonder if any species is more likely to first encounter more similar beings first, since they'd be looking for each other in the same places.
I do agree in principle but its easy to let our imaginations run wild. There are constraints to intelligence and tool use and frankly if you don't need it to survive then chances are you won't end up developing it. Many groups were very successful with relatives limited intelligence even compared to a lot of mammals. Dinosaurs had their own set of characteristics that allowed them to thrive for well over a hundred million years on earth. So its not at all unlikely that if you replayed Earth's history that you'd end up with humans or technology using lifeforms.
I bloody well married her.
@@nutyyyy Intelligent life doesn't necessarily need to use tools. Instead they could contract out; but only if they can use a phone.
This guy kinda sounds like Stewie, which makes him seem even more legit. haha
Absolutely fascinating show this week, your guest was amazing, I’m going to buy his book, extremely informative, thank you and kindest of regards.
I applaud you for this excellent episode. I was literally listen to this while working as a biologist (determining, sorting, and quantifying meiofauna from the deep sea into higher taxa), and this interview kept me afloat. Thanks so much, and what a brilliant interviewee Dr. Kershenbaum was.
Natural laws may lead to familiar solutions, but familiarity also cuts the other way - many bring up cephalopods as an example of the infinite possibilities of alien anatomies, but to me, they are more an example of something completely different: our capacity to relate to and become familiar with even deeply dissimilar beings to ourselves, given time and exposure. Familiarity is more a function of time and exposure than of similarity, after all. Similarity merely reduces the time to achieve familiarity by allowing the familiarization of the past to apply to new encounters.
Dogma and bias hamper this capacity through discrimination not by making familiarity difficult, but by providing a false image to be familiar with before an individual discovers reality through experience - crucially, it does so in a way that is lacking in nuance and therefore heuristically easy. I think it's far more effective to show victims of dogma that they were lied to from the outset than publicly shame them and declare that they are wrong, but I digress.
In any case, I personally believe writers (especially science fiction writers, no offense ;) ) and scientists alike tend to vastly underestimate humanity's capacity to turn the world-shaking revelatory discoveries of today into the simple mundanities of tomorrow.
Perhaps the true limits of human boredom are extended more by each discovery than each discovery can move us towards them... a sort of intellectual cosmic horizon. Perhaps, given that the horizon would be pushed ever further by each _event_ of both discovery and imagination, it would be appropriate to call this a "cognitive Event Horizon".
...Perhaps.
Your content is absolutely brilliant.. I have listened to this particular show 4 times.
Another hour of content? The man is really spoiling us
Finish your full hour of Event Horizon before leaving the table, please.
Another week almost gone and another event horizon episode is among us, as I've said it before I just love these episodes! great work John. 👍
OH YES!
Event Horizon
John Michael Godier
Aliens
I just love it. My greetings from Greece
Why are aliens pictured as naked. They can do warp speed but can’t weave clothes.
The eternal batchelors that loose any sign of civilization in their appearance. Why bother with clothes when you can skip that and never ever have to the laundry again? 😉
great interview John and thanks for adding the index/chapter thingy in the timeline. cheers
54:35 ish... yes there is interspecies communication....I think... During hunting season, Ravens will alert everybody to your location if they spot you, same with flying squirrels...I've noticed squirrels yelling at just about every species, " my nuts, my nuts, stay away from my @#$%& nuts!!!"
Very interesting guest, thank you! Now, let's get to Enceladus and look underneath that ice!
I thoroughly enjoyed this podcast.
Keep up the great work.
A very interesting conversation. Thanks for your great work.
Oh YES. A good long one, almost an hour. Thanks!
the last question made me think of a funny story. we had an african grey who would spend hours giving our dogs commands. making them sit, lie down and so on with my grandmothers voice. the parrot would also drop a treat like a banana slice or a grape every now and then so the dogs stick around and dont get bored. this would go on for several hours at least with one dog. this dog would have done anything for a treat lol. I think at first the dogs where confused and did it thinking it was my grandma shouting from another room, but later figured it out and continued doing it for the treats.
I would've loved to have seen a video of that!
I love the longer podcasts! Always excited when i see a new upload from this channel and your other channel ❤️
Intelligence for me is that its soo rare its almost impossible because it takes sooo long to involve to our level that its rare for a planet to be safe that long without planet changing events happen
We so need a ‘Part 2’ to this, with more discussion around technological Aliens - I.e. likelihood of them having a humanoid appearance, thumbs for tool making etc., and whether water/liquid dwelling Aliens could develop technologically given that fire would be difficult..? Thanks for the vid though 🙏
Love the questions in this one JMG. Great guest and great listen!!
I always figured kinda like us.....Convergent evolution deal
Indeed.
I discovered the two of your channels here in TH-cam, and... Danm! This is true gold. I am into knowledge, but your work is another level. Thank you for this, and congratulations!
Thank you Daniel.
Check Isaac Arthur
@@Mermaider I will...
Thanks Daniel. If you like my content, do check out Isaac Arthur but also Cool Worlds and Dr. Brian Keating for more in-depth science interviews.
@@JohnMichaelGodier wow John! Thank you so so soooo much! Would have never knew about them without u.
Always a thumbs up buddy keep it interesting
53:27. Our bodies are biological robots that our mind uses to interact with the physical world, there's no reason why we couldn't build better ones in the future that an "uploaded" mind could use
We can assume that some but not all of us would do that.
That's wrong, your body and soul/conscience, are one and the same, you can't separate them..
@ soul is a religious thing believe what you want. Currently we don't have a great definition nor objective measurement of consciousness. So now we cannot do it, but I generally don't accept that there's anything magical about our existence so I think it's reasonable to assume, given enough time, it will be figured out.
Damn, JMG ... Due to a power outage in my region, internet is down . So, I got on my bike and went to the office building just to download your video then I'm going back home and I'll have my weekly EH video for bedtime . Sheesh. 🤗
sounds like pish to me :)
How long was that bike ride
@@samdog8087 25 mins .
One of the best guests ever. And great interview. I was expecting at some point, given some of the topics, we would veer into science fiction futurism, but we didn't. Thx.
I personally think most aliens would look like our sea life. I think land life would be extremely rare. There are many body plans that work in our seas from fish, crabs, starfish, jellyfish even corals.
We’re talking about intelligent, technologically advanced extraterrestrials.
@@TraditionalAnglican You can talk about whatever you like.
@@spindoctor6385 If they’re stuck in the oceans, they’re never going to become an Advanced space faring civilization, those are the ones that really matter.🤷♂️
@@Barabel22 That is kindof my point, although I do not believe that living in water completely eliminates the chance of technology, I do believe that it is enough of a factor to drastically reduce the existence of space travelling creatures to the point of statistical insignificance.
I see no reason at all to believe that technology is any more than a side effect of the extremely rare type of intelligence that just so happened to be a successful evolutionary tactic for 1 species on 1 planet for what is so far an extremely short period of time.
In regards to inter species communications here on Earth. As someone who has spent a decent portion of my life in the woods I can tell you that every creature in the forest knows what a particular crow caw means. The same with squirrels and all their clicking and thumping, deer know this means something is in the forest that is a danger. I know that some chimps have a certain vocalization for a snake in the area and would be willing to bet that other creatures in the area know what the call means. Great episode as is usual.
Thanks John... was at the point of rewatching stuff last night haha awesome... awesome subject as always
ET, Close encounters, Arrival, A Quiet Place and a lot more. All nude! I appreciate it would be hard enough designing an alien, let alone what they might wear, but it would be great if you could do a video on that subject 🤙
omg... am I an alien, too?
Alex rises : The Birrin
Interesting! having clothes enabled humans to venture into habitats not suited for them, then the leap to having space, diving suits, boats, bikes, exo-skeleton’s and airplanes etc are logical next steps: don’t adept physically environment, create means to enable your physique to deal with it.
Maybe tool making as an evolutionary tale are a bit overrated, clothes making might be equally important in our evolution, but hides and fabrics aren’t preserved as well as axes and spears.
Obviously aliens from a tropical planet would wear thongs, while ets form an ice planet would pass oil in their skins and wear thongs.
I choose to believe that they look like elf's gnomes goblins and dwarfs cause otherwise I should sell the giant box of multi sided dice ive been carrying around like a treasure since 6th grade lol
Just post them to me!
@@YOOTOOBjase NEVER someday I will sell them with the 3 beany babies i found after my sister went to college back in 97 lol its my retirement plan you cant have it!
If we spread out in the universe and genetically engineer ourselves to fit each world we definetly could end up there. Dwarfs would fit nicely on high gravity worlds for instance while the elves with their slim bodies would do better on low gravity worlds.
@@michaelpettersson4919 you release im so gana use you to troll ppl on reddit cause they never liked my idea :(
Thank you for this podcast.
There a lot more to this world than we can possibly imagine
I think the Convergent Evolution and Humanoid evolutionary path is the most solid and conclusive
Would it then end up being the same kind of phylum/classification on Earth like worlds, with amphibians, avian, reptile, mammal, arthropod, etc type species(both intelligent and unintelligent)? Life would go down similar paths to Earths?
@@Barabel22 Indeed for earth like terran planets
@@thedoruk6324 Makes me think that the reported alien species from UFO/Alien encounters and experiences have some biological truth to back them up. If the reported species(Grays,Reptilian,Insectoid/Mantid, some animal like ones) evolved on Earth like planets with similar biospheres…hmm.
Note, I think 90-95% of UFO/Alien encounters can be explained, but there’s a good number with a “High Strangeness” factor and capabilities that only really have a few remaining explanations.
@@Barabel22 I really concur that if the habitable planets conditions are earth like the results should be earth habitats esque whereas the same evolutionary pathways even seen today and beforehand proven by fossil records and current studies additionally for a sentient species a bipedal and somewhat humanoid posture with grasping read hands ability would be most suitable not the non humanoid shapeless veague entities that got the bandwagon nowadays
I have a hard time believing that a life form that lives in a sub-surface ocean, with it's entire "universe" contained in that finite space, could develop anywhere near human being's level of intelligence. Just the lack of access to the stimuli of the outside world would be extremely limiting. They'd have no concept of beyond, or elsewhere, or anything more.
No fire, either.
@@user-pf5xq3lq8i Dinosaurs did rule the world. for 10s of millions of years.
Their intelligence is evolving alongside us, as we are indeed becoming that stimulus for them in so many ways, from rec fisherman catching them to the dolphin trainers. So many things to consider in monitoring behaviours and intelligence.
I'm addicted to this channel!! 🥴
With regards to communication, I am surprised Dr. Kershenbaum did not mention odor / smell. Or is that not considered complex enough to be mentioned in this context?
Would be funny if that would be the case and they frantically trying to figure out how we communicate without a direct control of our pheromones.
The 'stereotype' for aliens is 'the "insectizoids" e.g. from movies "Alien", "Starship Troopers", "Enders Game" ... etc etc. but I dunno I can forsee more horrendous looking life forms being winners out there in the universe .. think John Carpenter's "The Thing".
I suspect that the alien in The Thing took over the body of the original pilot of that ship. Anyway there are an episode on Star Trek Next Generation that are practically a rip off of The Thing.
The topic is too fascinating!
is it possible another planet has the exact same atmospheric conditions as earth? What range of variability from Earth could support life
Totally possible. In fact, life on earth arose under very different atmospheric conditions to now. There was little oxygen, and a lot of hydrogen and helium around in those days. The hydrogen and helium slowly escaped into space blown away by the solar wind, and when photosynthesis evolved it oxygenated the atmosphere drastically altering it. But other atmospheres that might support microbial life could be carbon dioxide, very high purity nitrogen as at Titan, and so on. So for atmospheric gases, there are lots of options for microbes. But for complex life, the choices get narrower and oxygen becomes a necessary component due to its wide ranging reactivity.
Also remember that capability to support life and capability to evolve life are different things. One way to search for alien civilisations are to look for worlds that support life where it shouldn't be able to develop any meaning that someone are adapting that world.
Awesome topics, thank you!
It's quite interesting that all the varieties of birds are traced back to dinosaurs. But isn't it so interesting that there are so few mammals (can only think of bats) that fly?
So imagine if the dinosaurs didn't go extinct...
It is surprising that bats are the only mammals capable of sustained flight. I’d wager that if birds didn’t make it through the extinction event, we’d see a lot of mammals filling those niches. As it is, probably hard to compete with the already supremely adapted species of birds.
The mammals that survived lived underground as did the snakes that hunted them. Not a lot of use for wings.
They would look like Skinny Bob? There's plenty of pictures of skinny Bob on the Internet? He was a part of the crash retrieval program? If you can find that there's actually live video of him?
Dolphin and a shark?
Octopus: "hold my beer"
A good book I just read is called the zoologists guide to the galaxy- it covered questions like this and how the evolutionary paths would be different on different planets but def interesting and worth checking out
The author of that book is the guest in this video….
@@EventHorizonShow very kind gentle answer.
Nice one JMG.
BTW - I heard that rock song named after you - very cool also. Maybe use that as the Halloween opening music?
@@EventHorizonShow my bad I q’d this for later viewing and didn’t remember the authors name haha I feel dumber than a bag of rocks
It’s ok Sean. It happens to all of us. Thanks for watching.
Communication over long distance is not only the domain of sound: although more biological, many animals communicate very clearly and over even longer distances (and time) through scent: excreting pheromones is very effective in marking territory or communicating it’s time to procreate.
Try something that looks like either the KZIN or the Pierson's Puppeteers (Larry Niven and his Tales from Know Space) Of course, the Andorians, the Vulcans, the Klingons, the Ferengi, ect
At least Star Trek tried to account for the overabundance of humanoid races with only foreheads and ears that are different. The episode is TNG: The Chase.
Great interview as always. Not sure I agree with all of his assertions, especially around technological intelligence as a convergent outcome. Also dubious to claim the climate crisis has a 50/50 chance of completely wiping out the human race. Massive death and destruction, perhaps. But toss up odds of ending a species that survived an ice age and countless other disasters is not exactly well-informed in my opinion. Regardless enjoyed it and great questions as always!
> Also dubious to claim the climate crisis has a 50/50 chance of completely wiping out the human race.
Yes, it is quite baffling that a serious scientists would make this claim.
Why would technological intelligence NOT be a convergent outcome? All technology is is altering the nature of the universe to your will. That’s a fundamental aspect of any advancement. Technically, making a fire with sticks and a flint is considered ‘technology’. But it’s just… common sense that an intelligent species would end up with some form of technology. A species has to wonder "why" and "what if" to truly be considered intelligent.
As for the climate thing, I don’t know what other ‘countless’ disasters you mean but in regards to the ice age… it’s much easier to warm up and it is to cool down. You can prevent death from the cold by heating up, but if the entire planet is hot as hell, there will be literally no escape from the heat. People like you are the ones who down play serious issues as if they can’t ever happen.
@@TheSCPStudio Intelligence isn't a substitute for common sense. People have proven this. Some use it simply to mollify themselves and exercise avoidance out of fear of hardship. I'd suspect mostly subconsciously.
@@TheSCPStudio There are certainly things we can do to cool the planet if it gets bad enough. Solar shades and carbon capture to name just two. We already have the technology to do it should the dire need arise. You clearly have a lack of understanding regarding our capabilities here. I’m not downplaying anything - it’s a serious problem. But it is ridiculous to say it’s a species ending one.
Regarding technological intelligence, I would say our planet is 4 billion years old, and to the best of our knowledge humans are the only species to ever develop past fire. And we were at that primitive stage for hundreds of thousands of years. Unlike other convergences such as flight, four legs, sight, etc, there is literally no example of similar convergence to anything considered a true technological and civilized species. Humans are it in the entirety of our planet’s history. Not a strong case for convergence.
Isaac Arthur (a multi-time guest and friend of JMG) has a good video on the concept of rare intelligence if you’re interested in understanding the criticism of this claim:
th-cam.com/video/0xbSHn4Fbu4/w-d-xo.html
Yes that statement is absurd from a scientist.
Anything comes to visit us, then it would have to be some kind of artificial intelligence
The second intelligent Gensis on earth is a fascinating question!
If the question is: will a genesis occur after humans are extinct? I think the answer is yes.
If the question is will earth experience a second intelligence genesis while humans exist on earth? I'd say the answer is no.
Dolphins and whales, regarded as the smartest sea mammals, evolved to go back in the sea. Life in the sea, is not favorable to tools or industry. You look at other sea creatures and they barely can think past their base needs, if at all. I think overtime whales and dolphins will regress in intelligence.
Apes are an interesting exception but I think we will sadly push them to extinction before they evolve to a higher intelligence
I’m 3 days late, but here none the less!
Badgers and Coyotes often Hunt together. The coyote will chase prey into its den and the badger will go in and get it. Or the badger will chase prey out of its den and the Coyote will intercept it. Then they share the spoils. If that doesnt take complex or at least more than simple communication im not sure I understand the concept at all.
Do you think first contact with advanced civilizations will be of huge significance for all of us?
Describe the contact. Detecting a faint, artificial radio blip in a faraway galaxy is one thing; the arrival of a Vogon Construction fleet in Earth orbit is another; ten billion hawt chicks from Arcturus here for two weeks on spring break is yet another. Significance varies accordingly.
@@bozo5632 Close arrival of something that is existentially dangerous for us
@@russiansoul6919 Yeah, that would be significant.
You gotta wonder why they'd bother, though.
@@bozo5632 I choose the third option if that is allowed. Only to find out that Arcturians beauty standards are significantly different from ours. There are also the possibility of a gigantic anti climax when we find out that some well know micro organism that have been with us since practically forever actually have alien orgins. Not that those would be an advanced civilization but one could have intentionally or unintentionally left the micro organism behind during a brief visit many millions of years ago.
Good episode. I believe aliens will look familiar or so strange we couldn't recognize it if we tried
I imagine some wierd looking but practical starfish aliens. It would be funny if they despite this are mentally just like us down to the equivalent of our many cultural expressions.
Hey? Everbody knows that Aliens look like 'Flo' from the car insurance commericails.
I agree that life can be very different on other planets, but I disagree that it doesn't take land to get to technology. I beleive that a technological society does have to be terrestrial and not aquatic. Fire was a needed step. Controlled Electricity was a needed step. These just will not happen in an equatic society.
That Little Piece AT The End Was Funny.
Great video and information !
Another fascinating episode
I don't think there's any one "great filter" that makes intelligent life uncommon. Instead, I think its the simple fact that there are so many filters along the way to technology that accounts for its rarity in the universe.
Yeah though I think another big factor recently identified in combination of spectroscopic survey data with GAIA astrometry is the Milky way galaxy's star formation history. The very surprising finding that star formation slowed to a trickle after the merger with the GAIA-Enceladus/Sausage galaxy around 9 billion years ago and only resumed around 6 billion years ago with the collision between the Milky Way and the original dwarf spiral galaxy that has become the Sagittarius dwarf spheroidal galaxy and its associated ongoing merger. The initial starburst from this merger appears to have been responsible for more than half of the stars the Milky Way has ever formed (i.e. including all the short lived massive stars) and it is extremely likely to have included the formation of our Sun since the Sun formed near the tail end of the starburst episode when star formation rates were dropping but still extremely high. Thus based off the distinct metallicity variation and rate of star formation if metallicity based filters are important as seems probable in the case of phosphorus, at least for life as we know it, then that alone might be enough to solve the "fermi paradox".
Phosphorus nucleosynthesis as far as we know only really can occur during Oxygen burning which can only occur in sufficiently massive stars as the second to last energy producing fusion stage which only lasts around ~200 days with the star in question undergoing a core collapse supernovae 2 days later. Most of the oxygen gets fused into silicon with only a small percentage getting fused into phosphorus and much of that will be destroyed in the ensuing supernovae either getting fused into heavier elements in the extreme conditions and or falling into the stellar remnant thus an individual supernovae will likely only release a small fraction of that the only way to really produce a large amount of phosphorus at once seems to be in the dying days of a rapidly rotating Wolf-Rayet star where centrifugal effects can help propel the expelled outer layers away from the star before it goes supernovae. Given that rapidly rotating Wolf-Rayet stars are thought to be the primary progenitors of long duration gamma ray bursts... it is safe to say you don't want to many of them. Instead as these stars form in the heart of a high mass star formation region the main way it is thought the produced phosphorus gets out into the galaxy at large is via the secondary stars that form in the vicinity of the ejecta of the massive GRB progenitor so it should be reasonable to expect a delay from peak star formation and the greatest odds of phosphorus rich planetary systems. Of course there is potentially some evidence to suggest the Sun may have formed in the presence of a Wolf Rayet star (though this has been contested by others largely pointing out that high mass star formation regions are poorly understood and remains unconfirmed) it is thus feasibly possible that the Sun could be a direct recipient of Phosphorus from a Wolf Rayet star in which case only a small subset of stars may be able to meet habitability criteria. There are still too many unknowns as it is hard to compare the amounts of rare trace elements in particular stars.
Well incidentally regarding the GAIA astrometry it seems that the other galaxies that compose the local group also seem to have a significant drop off in star forming rate after the first few billion years, this supports the growing evidence that the Local Group is within a large cosmic void, currently the largest known though it is also of course the youngest and thus that is likely biasing the results. It could very well turn out to be the case that life can only sufficiently develop to complexity/intelligence etc. in sparsely populated under dense regions of the Universe i.e. cosmic voids.
Lovely evening chill, thank you John :)
Great episode and great guest. I would love have him back. Thanks!!!!
Thanks Strick. Hope you’re recovering well.
@@EventHorizonShow Thanks.
Interesting and thought provoking. Well done to both of you. Thank you.
I like that this guest kept to his scientific rigor and didn't go off into make-believe-land when prodded to do so.
I’m excited to watch this one. I’m glad you don’t immediately discredit the recent UAP/UFO phenomenon. You seem genuinely interested in it and I can appreciate that.
Lue Elizondo in November.
I would be remiss if I ignored it or dismissed it. There's just too much out there now for that after all the Nimitz pilots and personnel came out. There's something to it that we need to get to the bottom of.
@@JohnMichaelGodier couldn’t agree more. You should talk to someone from the Nimitz encounter. Kevin Day and David Fravor are great but they are all class acts. Keep up the good work JMG!
While I too don't think telepathy is particularly likely, it's more through the physics of how such a thing might work, rather than the stated lack of evolutionary impetus. Knowing what a predator is thinking would be an ENORMOUS evolutionary advantage even without transmission. In fact, the reading of minds doesn't require any transmission at all to work at a practical level, if you're reading somethings mind and it's reading yours then bam communication right there. No transmission needed. I think that the answer is actually that it's likely much simpler to to evolve a mind that is a better predictor of action than it would be to evolve some means of reading the thoughts of something else. In fact, if such a thing were possible(and it seems like it's not as far as we can see, or at least not practical in any way) you might even assume that a telepathic entity would actually have a lower intelligence because why would it need to develop a complex mind capable of predicting the future actions of predators or other members of it's own species when it can just know? While predictive capacity is useful outside of predicting the actions of others, it would seem like there would be less evolutionary pressure to develop a complex mind on top of telepathy. Even more so of something that has precognition (which seems even more impossible than telepathy). A precognitive entity would have no reason at all to develop intelligence, as it already knows what's going to happen and doesn't need a complex predictive mind. If that were a thing, you might assume you could find some kind of precognitive slugs or something.
TLDR: The idea that mind reading holds no evolutionary advantage if it were possible seems laughably wrong.
The good doctor is pouring cold water on some favorite (if unfounded) theories here. Much appreciated.
Great interview, thank you 🙏👍💪
This should be interesting.
Lmao Demi Lavato would be outraged right now! Calling them “aliens” is considered derogatory according to her. We need to respect them by calling them Extra Terrestrials
😂😂
Yes, we should call them ETB or ETI's. If I refered to the Native American population as "the Indians , or some Indian thing" it may not be hostile but it's already a sign of ignorance, tribalism, primitive insight, and grouping. It's not particularly horrendous but may be seen as ignorant or disrespect. Respect isn't mandatory here.
So fascinating. Thank you, John.
A very interesting and thought provoking interview, top marks to JMG
Even tho their fields are very different I think it'd be interesting to get Arik Hirschenbaum and Avi Loeb in a room together... 😅
Very interesting episode! I love all the various perspectives that are on this show.
Mind blown (piqkeeuw); between this episode and that recent one about "information" i have a lot more to think about other than wondering if hobos are aliens in disguise.
Wow, this was surprisingly very interesting. Not the typical how would aliens look like video. Thanks!
I wonder though, why wasn't by 'chemicals' not mentioned as a logical method of communication? On earth it might even be the most used by almost all species.
Also, 10 limbs is also quite common: shrimps, lobsters, form a siginificant part of our (salt-)waterbiotopes.
Wow amazing!
Another fantastic interview, JMG! Thanks a lot! 😃
It was almost hearing what I think myself. I totally agree with Dr. Arik Kershenbaum. I'm definitely going to look for his book! 😃
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
It's cause you're content is always good.
The topic of how many limbs remines me of a conversation with a farmer who was experimenting with genetically modified chickens. He and his team had modified a chicken so that it had 3 pairs of legs. He told me they would be 40% more profitable than a two legged chicken. I thought that was interesting and asked him if they tasted like normal chicken's legs. He was unable to answer telling me he'd never been able to catch one! Sorry it's Friday.
The first steps of intelligence are taken by many, many species. Human intelligence comes from tool use, also demonstrated by different species. The mastering of fire an metallurgy though, seems like a niche development that only fits a limited set of ecosystems (land). And those enabling ecosystems need to be present at a world for human like intelligence to emerge. Those conditions might be rare, even if (complex) life can be on many places.
This really is fascinating.Great conversation. I appreciate all the work you put in to these videos.I hope the answers will be discovered in my lifetime.
fascinating stuff. Going to pick up the Zoologists Guide to the Galaxy
Finally! It’s said - sound is not an optimum modality to contact aliens .
It's a cool thought that we might be visited by aliens who have come looking for a civilization that existed here a billion years ago and subsequently vanished. In doing so they'd bring us their radio transmissions they've collected on their way here, and let us discover our planet's primordial history.
Hey hey my favorite subject! You rock JMG! 👽
This interview was good after the first few questions it really came into its own. Dr, Kershenbaum has a unique perspective.
Maybe best podcast I’ve ever heard. The shark got me. My response was so quick I realized my species had seen that enough before to store that away inside.
Realizing all the species on this planet have evolved together and watched each other grow up and eat each other.
They'll need eyes, because without them the universe couldn't experience itself.
Keep up the good work. I love listening to this channel while at work in a digger!
Thanks Darren!
Evolution is a thing to be more specific convergent evolution. I think that alien life will be similar but differ in the details.
Creatures in the ocean will have the shape of sharks, molluscs, octopuses, slugs, etc. The same goes for land creatures, certain shapes repeat in the animal kingdom because they are efficient for that particular niche.
As far as intelligent life goes, I think that they will be bipedal with eyes in front of their face, have arms and hands like appendages that are dexterous and nimble enough to make tools.
They might differ in the details like having different skin more or less than 5 fingers or being able to see the rest of the light spectrum but I suspect that they are similar to what we see here on earth now or in the fossil record.
Ahhhh...cozy sleepy time. 😀
Travis walton has seen them supposedly. Interesting descriptions
You should make a more careful distinction between “electricity” and sensing a dc electric field or a high frequency field. In that respect, bioluminescence is communication by electricity.
One of the best topics, on the best show 🌌
Hello John I'm a new subscriber I really appreciate the hard work you put into your podcast. I feel personally the James Web telescope is going to be a game changer in the search for life. The universe is so vast the probabilities of life in all forms is a given it's just finding the right tech to find it.
Glad you found us! We’re excited about JWST as well. Here’s a recent episode discussing its capabilities. The Most Powerful Space Telescope Ever with Dr. Klaus Pontoppidan th-cam.com/video/gk_-Z_a3Ar4/w-d-xo.html
Thank you for the feedback and I'm looking forward to watching the link you recommend.