Look into Tolkien beeing a fremason and how he was granted access to fremasonic libraries of the real history of this earth. We are a much older species than we have been told. And we never imigrated from Africa, ever.
@@Dyrnwynn there was many family members of tolkien in the masons whether he was one himself idk. I always thought tolkien believed in ancient cultures from the past because the numenoreans suffered the same fate as Atlantis where they went from a divine society who fell into greed and the gods then destroyed them. Atlantis is most likely fake but the connection could be there for tolkiens inspiration
Dying of a broken heart is a real tragedy that can and has happened. In fact, Carry Fisher's mother died of a broken heart not long after her daughter passed.
@@teleportedbreadfor3days Debbie Reynolds story still gives me the goosebumps even today each time I remember it as her fate literally mirrors the fate of Padme, who coincidently happens to be Leia's/Carrie Fisher's mother in the Star Wars Saga as both died of a broken heart. It might be just coincidence but still creepy nonetheless
Arwen and her brothers were given the life of thd Eldar because of their Fathers' choice. They didn't have to make a choice, until Arwen rejected immortality in order to stay with Aragorn. Arwen actually gave her place aboard the ship to the undying lands, to Frodo. She said, " in my stead, you shall go, Ringbearer."
@@arckocsog253 her brothers, but yes. when elrond left, his children had to decide as well, whether to leave with him as elves, or to stay and die as men. Im sure i read that the twins made the same choice as their sister and stayed.
Luthien and Earendil of the first age. Their descendents (earendils twins) elros and elrond of the 2nd. Galador and elronds children in the third age. Arwen reintroduced the blood of The first king of numenor back into the line of Kings being the niece of Elros.
I've long felt that Tolkien's works were about the "fall from grace" (for lack of a better term) of the world. Seeing first hand the depravity of WWI, he tried to answer the question of "how did we come to this?" He created a mythology for Britain, and it was a tale that stretched from creation, to the utopia of Valinor, to repeated downfalls over thousands of years until we come to us mundane folks of Middle Earth. The half-elves represent that last legacy of what could have been. A tragic tale of something divine that has been lost.
The Silmarillion was essentially the story of the Elves fall from grace then their later redemption, paralleling in part the story of Adam and Eve up to and including Jesus Christ. Men or rather the Dunedain, followed a similar path of sorts with the blessing of the island of Numenor and longer lives, their rise and slow decline over the centuries until Aragorn and Arwen's union created a final reconciliation between elves and men. Tolkien did say that Britain lacked it's own mythology and that was one of his motivations behind his works. WWI no doubt shaped a lot of Tolkien's views going forward and he incorporates those experiences into his works with the fall of Gondolin, the War of Wrath, the Dead Marshes, etc. his works could be considered antiwar depending on how you interpret them, not so much on the nose as GRRM's A Song of Ice and Fire, but more in terms of the cost of war and fighting the inevitable, in Tolkien's time that was industrialization (i.e. the Scouring of the Shire) and how the rural agrarian country side he grew up in and loved was slowly disappearing to this new urban mechanized environment. The cost of war could be measured up in Frodo's experiences and ultimate fate having to leave because of the physical and emotional trauma, kind of like how many veterans struggle for the rest of their lives to learn to live with their physical and mental scars of war.
@@noahshreve5237 I see an additional overarching message: the good in the world lies in living and immaterial things. The need for the material - and to possess it, not just enjoy it - is where temptation to evil resides. Hence: Silmarils (in itself beautiful and not evil, until people try to claim them - their restoration to the earth is for the benefit of all), Dwarves 'delving too deep;, the Arkenstone, Smaug etc. The preservation of that is not a fruitless effort - it is a necessary one for the survival of all living beings. Those that understand this, or simply live by it, are the heroes of these stories and the keepers of the earth.
@@Knight860 Great comment. I often think that JRRT chose Samwise to be the unlikely hero as a hat tip to all the ordinary men of the British shires and counties without whom the Great War could never have been won, in the same way Frodo would never have achieved his mission without Sam carrying him - literally! - to do it.
@@Asgard2208 True along with Bilbo, Frodo, Merry and Pippin, they all are unlikely heroes whom no one expected much out of even Gandalf was amazed by their courage and determination.
Humans can die of a broken heart. I don't mean humans in Middle Earth but real, you and I humans. My great grandmother lived to be 96 years old and by all doctor accounts, was as healthy as she could be and it was expected that she would go on living for many years yet. My father, as well as her son, two daughters, three grandchildren all died around her and of those were included the family that lived nearby her and she truly felt alone and had a broken heart. She didn't pass away until she actually wanted to. She truly died of a broken heart and lost the will to go on. Such a great lady.
I love the parallels between Beren + Lúthien and Aragorn + Arwen. The first time I saw the extended edition of the fellowship of the ring I lost my mind when Aragorn was singing the Lay of Lúthien
The sons of Elrond stayed in Rivendell into the fourth age with Celeborn. While Celeborn eventually sailed to the undying lands the fate of the sons of Elrond is unresolved. It’s never said if they sailed west or not
ummm Celeborn is doing something fishy....what is he doing with both of his grandkids at rivendell when his waifu and people all went to the west? ......."now that my waifu is not here...i can finally came out of the closet"- Celeborn. xD
@@wewenang5167 actually something else came to mind, celeborn also lived before his wife’s people arrived, witnessed time fading that was around them. He basically stuck around longer in middle earth for nostalgic reasons to relive the early days of elves after their sundering when they still lived under the stars, before the destruction of the two trees in Valinor, and the sap and fruit of those trees used to create the sun and moon.
The bond shared between the first and second children of Iluvatar is one of my favorite themes in Tolkien's works. It is always beautiful when that bound gives birth to love.
So freaking good man. Whenever I watch your videos - for that brief duration whilst watching, I forget all the troubles of our own world, being immersed once again in the world of Tolkien. Just brilliant.
"I would rather spend one lifetime with you then spend all the ages of this world alone" Man I dont know if I could choose between being immortal or mortal. Both pros and cons would weigh in my mind and if I loved someone who didn't have the choice? 🥺 But from a biological standpoint its incredibly interesting!!! Did they become human once they chose? Did they retain their elven features and just age? I'm probably reading too much into it but they are one of the most unique beings
It's hard to say, isn't it? I almost don't want to believe that the moment that Elrond decided to be an elf that his ears might've become suddenly pointier. The abilities of men seem so much harder to define, too. At least with elves we have a knowledge of farsight, a light step, and greater agility. Its almost bizarre to imagine Elrond acquiring these abilities at the time of his choice.. Equally bizarre is if that we assume that half-elves already had elven abilities, and so that this meant that Elros, when he accepted the Doom of Men, *lost* his ability to be more graceful and see further. It's all a bit convoluted, but I've always thought of half elves that have not chosen their fate to just be elven by default.
Their Elven features would be the brightness of their 'spirit/power' and sight (meaning their ability to see the world), I doubt these would fade with age, as the Numenroean kings retained all faculties even with great age, and knew when it was time. Those who rejected heir time and held one became old and crippled and lost their strength. Aragorn stayed to the old way and when he knew it was his time, he lay down to die voluntarily.
@@wewenang5167 yeah. He said that they're closely identical to Men. So they're probably like Men but taller and more graceful-like, more ethereal perhaps.
I get the sense that "The Choice" is more a matter of association rather than a once-and-for-all choosing. Earendil chose to be elven because he was stuck with elves and Ainur until the end of Arda. Elros wanted to be King of Numenor so, he chose mortality. Elrond lives in Rivendell with a bunch of Elven refugees. So, he chose to be counted as an elf. The choice seems to depend on the company you intend to keep.
Great video yoystan and to add to your question about Arwen I believe she and her brothers were given the choice to either be elves or humans and I think she was human she just decided to pass away in a special place that was important to both her and Aragorn. As for her brothers I think they stayed in middle earth until Arwen passed and they said goodbye to their nieces and nephew before leaving for the undying lands to be with the rest of the eldar!
I'm so happy I found this channel! I've been fascinated in recent months in the world of Arda and it's history. This channel has been pivotal in my endeavor. Thank you for your time effort toward your content!
If Legolas was able to recognise the "look" of a part-Elf human when meeting Prince Imrahil, perhaps there were more Elf/Man crosses than the ones in the histories. Maybe the Silvan realms were more relaxed about the purity of their bloodlines.
Have you ever wondered how awkward it was when Elrond finally turned up in the West without any of the children that Celebrian hadn't seen in over 500 years?
In 1981 I was married to an elven beauty. Alas, as you said about dying from a broken heart. She died in 2011 from a broken heart after our son had died early that year in January. Her gentle soul could not bear the loss of our son in a fire. I do not know how it was born by my soul.
Another great video Yoystan! I found it quite intriguing when I was reading the Silmarillion and the appendices at the end of ROTK for the fact that each of these pairings set up some of the biggest stories and also becoming some of the most powerful families in Middle Earth and how they are all connected from Beren and Luthien up to Aragorn and Arwen.
Felt arwen died an elf much like faenor's mom. She chose to move on dont know if mandos will allow her to meet her husband in the after life without permission from eru
She chose the fate of men, she imparts to Aragorn that mortality is her choice instead of a rewind to her previous status after Aragorn dies. She dies like the ancient Numenoreans died, willingly and quietly. Greater than the usual kind of death. She chose like Luthien, to be mortal and eventually leave the world like other Men.
Hello Yoystan, Thank you so much for this video and especially thank you for finally explaining to me the mystery of the elvish blood in Prince Imrahil. He is one of my favorite characters. He is in the story for such a brief time and gets overlooked in all the adaptions, like Bombadil. For me though, his characterization makes him practically on the same level of hero as Aragorn. Thanks, Javier
I really enjoyed this one! Thank you for clarifying certain questions; I had no idea there were so many elvish/human love stories. Looking forward to the video on Aragorn and Arwen (last year's on Faramir and Eowyn is still one of my very favorite TH-cam videos, which I revisit frequently).
Beautiful video. Would you be so kind to do one on Elladan and Elrohir? You always seem to be able to find even the tiniest bit of information on your subjects that is not common knowledge. Very admirable. Elladan and Elrohir also appear in the fanfiction video Born of Hope.
i like to think that Elrond's children were given the same opportunity to choose their path. mainly because the idea that Arwen would never again meet Aragorn in the afterlife is very sad.
Elrond’s children had to travel to Valinor with him when he departed, or they would share the fate of men. The Tale of Years tells us that both Elladan and Elohir stayed in Middle Earth with the grandfather Cleleborn for a time
Love the content and want to ask, if you have one, what is your favorite Middle Earth story out of the collective work? Mine is definitely the Fall of Gondolin, the stand alone novel was fantastic
Thank you for the support, my friend! Ah that is too difficult a question to answer. For me, it really depends on the mood I am in. Sometimes, The Hobbit and that adventure is just what I need, when at others I need the deepness and philosophy of the Silmarillion, or the epicness of the LOTR. I love it all!
@@MenoftheWest I too love it all, very much, and have ever since the animated films introduced me to the world, long before I saw the live action films or read the books
Unfortunately, as confirmed by Christopher Tolkien, Dior and his twin sons were mortal... because Manwe, in contemplating Earendil's fate, stated that all beings with even a drop of mortal blood, inherit the Gift of Men. But Eru gave to Manwe authority to decide the fate of those whose inheritance included the fate of immortals and mortals alike.... and as we all know, the decision was made to let the half-elf choose. But before this decision was made, both Dior and presumably his sons, had already died, with their inheritance of the fate of men being default.
The choice given to Arwen was to marry Aragorn and have a mortal life & death or sail into the west and live as Elves, bound within arda, deathless, for as long as arda endures. So obviously she did get to make "The choice of the half-elven." As I understand it, if they chose to be counted among the Elves then the next generation would be able to make the choice as well, but once a half-elf had chosen to be counted among Men then the next generation wouldn't be able to make the choice.
Arwen's fate is a little hard to pin down, but the strong impression I've always had was that she had never thought about her choice that much (being quite young) until she met Aragorn. At that moment, "her doom fell on her", and she knew what would happen. She loved him and would have to give up everything to have him. She was spared making the actual decision because of Elrond's charge that Aragorn had to reunite the kingdoms and win the crown, so the decision was put off. But when everything went down, she put her hand in his and made the choice. I've always had the impression that this decision was fresh at the time she spoke to Frodo about giving him her place on the ship, and that she spoke with some pain because of her family (but that's just my view).
Apart from their stories being breath-taking they are also one-of-a-kind type of trope in fantasy. I've yet to come across another great fantasy book that made such considerations for its characters! The idea that self-creation as a biological choice and one's own destiny is full responsibility of the individual is marvelous.
The Line of Imrazor and Mithrellas also continued in the House of Stewards (or the House of the Princes of Ithilien) because Denethor's wife, the mother of Boromir and Faramir, was Prince Imrahil's sister
I just had a thought--wouldn't it have been a bittersweet thing if Elrond had traveled to Numenor to say his final goodbye to his brother Elros at the end of his life? I wish Tolkien would have written about that meeting.
I really love this channel and the work that goes into it. Especially the art work. While I love and appreciate the Peter Jackson adaptations, it's nice to see the work that came before it as well.
Nice Mellon, right before 1pm...A video on one of the smallest species *in numbers, not size* of Middle Earth!!! It's Interesting you brought up the Children of Hurin, I am currently rereading it for the 100,000th or so time... But this the first time I read it after seeing The Mandalorian, and I honestly could see Pedro Pascal as Turin...it's weird!!! Tell me what you think about that Fan Cast idea, But until what happened in the north during the War of the Ring, Marion Baggins Out!!!
You can really hear the reverence that Yoystan has for Elros, the same reverence that I have for he is one of the greatest men to have lived in Middle-Earth. Through Elessar his legacy and the glory of old Númenor endures!
Well I think it might depend on translation issue; Fate of Arwen. Because in Finnish translations Tolkien clearly states that Arwen took her own life in Lothlorien after Aragorn died (Also kinda poetic and sad after all Arwen was known the last Elven maiden amongst the mortals and after her passing through her own hand also disappeared the last bit of magic from the world itself) because as an Elven kind she cannot die in old age, and no one wanted to kill her and Elves cannot die in disease or illness. Arwen Choose to stay in Middle-Earth but didn't become mortal... Of course that would be helpful if we could ask the writer himself about this issue :P
I like to think that Arwen was re-united with her father and brothers after she passed away in Lothlorien when Aragorn died. But there's nothing to indicate that that is so. It's just a little less sad to think that that is the case.
It's been ages since I read LOTR or the appendices where Arwen's case is handled, so I might not remember this all correctly, but it seems like she and her brothers were given the choice of the Half-elves. When she met Aragorn in Lothlorien, long before the events of LOTR, she made her choice for his sake and was destined to die as a human. Later, when Aragorn steps down from his throne, he tells her to repent of her choice, but she refuses. So she at least was given the choice, which makes it seem that her brothers had it too.
In an end note in War of the Jewels, Christopher Tolkien pointed out that Dior was a mortal man, because he was born after Beren & Luthien returned from the Halls of Mandos, when they were both mortal. So for a while, a mortal man ruled Doriath. That was something I always wondered. Also, only Earendil, Elwing & their children were given the choice, because they were the only ones offered the choice by the Valar. Why the choice was passed to Elrond's children but not to Elros' children is something I still don't really get.
Elros was mortal. That choice is irreversable. Anyone who is part Man is mortal. That's a rule. There was an exception made for Earendil, Elwing and their sons. They were allowed to choose. But as soon as the choice is made to be mortal, that's it, your descendants are mortal too.
"Elwing, on the other hand, would learn the language of the sea birds in the undying lands and learn to fly among them." This story must have been known to another who could fly through the skies, a great cetacean. As this mighty Fish of Wind slept within the great egg upon the mountain he surely recalled the tale of Elwing. Hence, in Mabe Village there appeared a lovely young girl. Many a day she spent at Toronbo beach with the sea birds singing as her heart yearned to fly with them. Verily it be the nature of dreams to end. Though she was almost certainly fated to fade away as the sleeper stirred within the egg, she did not fade, she flew. Live well dearest Marin. May every distant land you fly to be all you imaged it would be and more.
Pretty much the same time. In fact, when Tuor and his elf guide were on their way to Gondolin, they saw Hurin in the distance. Tuor and Hurin were cousins, btw.
@@maksphoto78 thanks heaps for clarifying. I suspected as much but wasn’t 100% sure. :-) It’s crazy that they never met properly and didn’t know who each other was. Especially since their fathers had a close relationship if I remember correctly.
It would be interesting to consider what would happen had Aegnor did indeed married to Andreth because when it comes to the union of Men and Elves the male would tend to be from the race of men and the female are of the elves but the circumstances between Aegnor and Andreth is still unique as it is the only instance that an Elven male nearly married a human female.
Genuinely bought all the books because of this channel
A wise investment
I hope they've enriched your life as they have mine! 👍
Bought all of them like 14 year ago in england...best purchased ever
Enjoy!
That's a lot of books! It took me a couple of years to get them all.
Remember all this came from the mind of one man, incredible
Look into Tolkien beeing a fremason and how he was granted access to fremasonic libraries of the real history of this earth. We are a much older species than we have been told. And we never imigrated from Africa, ever.
@@nicholas5569 lmao!
@@nicholas5569 Utter rubbish. Professor Tolkien would reject this for the nonsense it is.
@@nicholas5569 Well said.
@@Dyrnwynn there was many family members of tolkien in the masons whether he was one himself idk. I always thought tolkien believed in ancient cultures from the past because the numenoreans suffered the same fate as Atlantis where they went from a divine society who fell into greed and the gods then destroyed them. Atlantis is most likely fake but the connection could be there for tolkiens inspiration
"Elves can die of a broken heart."
Oh! So Padme was an elf, got it.
Dying of a broken heart is a real tragedy that can and has happened. In fact, Carry Fisher's mother died of a broken heart not long after her daughter passed.
@@teleportedbreadfor3days I though it was because too much partying in the 80's
@@alfonsocaballero3630 No, it was of a broken heart. She was devastated.
@@teleportedbreadfor3days Debbie Reynolds story still gives me the goosebumps even today each time I remember it as her fate literally mirrors the fate of Padme, who coincidently happens to be Leia's/Carrie Fisher's mother in the Star Wars Saga as both died of a broken heart. It might be just coincidence but still creepy nonetheless
takotsubo syndrome is the medical term for a broken heart
Arwen and her brothers were given the life of thd Eldar because of their Fathers' choice. They didn't have to make a choice, until Arwen rejected immortality in order to stay with Aragorn. Arwen actually gave her place aboard the ship to the undying lands, to Frodo. She said, " in my stead, you shall go, Ringbearer."
Correct
who gave their place to Bilbo?
Thats just movie crap. Arwen and his brothers had the choice
@@krishacz Valar gave Bilbo and Gimli the chance to go to Valinor
@@arckocsog253 her brothers, but yes. when elrond left, his children had to decide as well, whether to leave with him as elves, or to stay and die as men. Im sure i read that the twins made the same choice as their sister and stayed.
The half elves changed the paths of both races. Each age had their own half elf that would change Middle Earth.
They indeed were instruments of Eru-Ilúvatar's will.
Luthien and Earendil of the first age.
Their descendents (earendils twins) elros and elrond of the 2nd.
Galador and elronds children in the third age.
Arwen reintroduced the blood of The first king of numenor back into the line of Kings being the niece of Elros.
I've long felt that Tolkien's works were about the "fall from grace" (for lack of a better term) of the world. Seeing first hand the depravity of WWI, he tried to answer the question of "how did we come to this?" He created a mythology for Britain, and it was a tale that stretched from creation, to the utopia of Valinor, to repeated downfalls over thousands of years until we come to us mundane folks of Middle Earth. The half-elves represent that last legacy of what could have been. A tragic tale of something divine that has been lost.
The Silmarillion was essentially the story of the Elves fall from grace then their later redemption, paralleling in part the story of Adam and Eve up to and including Jesus Christ. Men or rather the Dunedain, followed a similar path of sorts with the blessing of the island of Numenor and longer lives, their rise and slow decline over the centuries until Aragorn and Arwen's union created a final reconciliation between elves and men. Tolkien did say that Britain lacked it's own mythology and that was one of his motivations behind his works. WWI no doubt shaped a lot of Tolkien's views going forward and he incorporates those experiences into his works with the fall of Gondolin, the War of Wrath, the Dead Marshes, etc. his works could be considered antiwar depending on how you interpret them, not so much on the nose as GRRM's A Song of Ice and Fire, but more in terms of the cost of war and fighting the inevitable, in Tolkien's time that was industrialization (i.e. the Scouring of the Shire) and how the rural agrarian country side he grew up in and loved was slowly disappearing to this new urban mechanized environment. The cost of war could be measured up in Frodo's experiences and ultimate fate having to leave because of the physical and emotional trauma, kind of like how many veterans struggle for the rest of their lives to learn to live with their physical and mental scars of war.
It wasn't just WWI, Tolkin was a devouth Catholic and the "fall from grace" is a major theme in Catholicism.
@@noahshreve5237 I see an additional overarching message: the good in the world lies in living and immaterial things. The need for the material - and to possess it, not just enjoy it - is where temptation to evil resides. Hence: Silmarils (in itself beautiful and not evil, until people try to claim them - their restoration to the earth is for the benefit of all), Dwarves 'delving too deep;, the Arkenstone, Smaug etc. The preservation of that is not a fruitless effort - it is a necessary one for the survival of all living beings. Those that understand this, or simply live by it, are the heroes of these stories and the keepers of the earth.
@@Knight860 Great comment. I often think that JRRT chose Samwise to be the unlikely hero as a hat tip to all the ordinary men of the British shires and counties without whom the Great War could never have been won, in the same way Frodo would never have achieved his mission without Sam carrying him - literally! - to do it.
@@Asgard2208 True along with Bilbo, Frodo, Merry and Pippin, they all are unlikely heroes whom no one expected much out of even Gandalf was amazed by their courage and determination.
Humans can die of a broken heart. I don't mean humans in Middle Earth but real, you and I humans. My great grandmother lived to be 96 years old and by all doctor accounts, was as healthy as she could be and it was expected that she would go on living for many years yet. My father, as well as her son, two daughters, three grandchildren all died around her and of those were included the family that lived nearby her and she truly felt alone and had a broken heart. She didn't pass away until she actually wanted to. She truly died of a broken heart and lost the will to go on. Such a great lady.
I'm sorry to hear about that Strifegar, she does sound like a wonderful lady.
One of my favourite topics, and one that people underestimate the importance of! Great job, my friend.
Thanks Dan, I really appreciate it, my friend!
I’m currently hanging out in hell with my master because halflings destroyed my jewelry.
@Boomstick McNugget lol yeah
good for the halflings.
Don't worry you'll have company soon, I think a cousin just showed up this week?
Oh my got so funny so humorous. I dying laughing. I det now.
Youre still alive as a spirit,you both but can not take a form again
I love the parallels between Beren + Lúthien and Aragorn + Arwen. The first time I saw the extended edition of the fellowship of the ring I lost my mind when Aragorn was singing the Lay of Lúthien
That part of the movie is beautiful. Its amazing piece of writing to have the two stories. Intertwine.
The sons of Elrond stayed in Rivendell into the fourth age with Celeborn. While Celeborn eventually sailed to the undying lands the fate of the sons of Elrond is unresolved. It’s never said if they sailed west or not
ummm Celeborn is doing something fishy....what is he doing with both of his grandkids at rivendell when his waifu and people all went to the west? ......."now that my waifu is not here...i can finally came out of the closet"- Celeborn. xD
@@wewenang5167 actually something else came to mind, celeborn also lived before his wife’s people arrived, witnessed time fading that was around them. He basically stuck around longer in middle earth for nostalgic reasons to relive the early days of elves after their sundering when they still lived under the stars, before the destruction of the two trees in Valinor, and the sap and fruit of those trees used to create the sun and moon.
I like anything with the elves. In the stories I've always felt safe when the heros stayed with the elves, but was alway sad when they had to leave.
Ahhh an awesome LOTR lore video and a large Domino’s Pizza 🍕. Perfect way to end the week. God bless and Thank you Mr. West 😎👍🏼.
The bond shared between the first and second children of Iluvatar is one of my favorite themes in Tolkien's works. It is always beautiful when that bound gives birth to love.
So freaking good man. Whenever I watch your videos - for that brief duration whilst watching, I forget all the troubles of our own world, being immersed once again in the world of Tolkien. Just brilliant.
"I would rather spend one lifetime with you then spend all the ages of this world alone"
Man I dont know if I could choose between being immortal or mortal. Both pros and cons would weigh in my mind and if I loved someone who didn't have the choice? 🥺
But from a biological standpoint its incredibly interesting!!! Did they become human once they chose? Did they retain their elven features and just age? I'm probably reading too much into it but they are one of the most unique beings
You made great points and asked such important questions. I’m also interested and curious to know their answers.
It's hard to say, isn't it? I almost don't want to believe that the moment that Elrond decided to be an elf that his ears might've become suddenly pointier.
The abilities of men seem so much harder to define, too. At least with elves we have a knowledge of farsight, a light step, and greater agility. Its almost bizarre to imagine Elrond acquiring these abilities at the time of his choice.. Equally bizarre is if that we assume that half-elves already had elven abilities, and so that this meant that Elros, when he accepted the Doom of Men, *lost* his ability to be more graceful and see further.
It's all a bit convoluted, but I've always thought of half elves that have not chosen their fate to just be elven by default.
Their Elven features would be the brightness of their 'spirit/power' and sight (meaning their ability to see the world), I doubt these would fade with age, as the Numenroean kings retained all faculties even with great age, and knew when it was time. Those who rejected heir time and held one became old and crippled and lost their strength. Aragorn stayed to the old way and when he knew it was his time, he lay down to die voluntarily.
@@大屁股-i1q nah..tolkien never said any of the elves in his creation got pointy ears lol
@@wewenang5167 yeah. He said that they're closely identical to Men. So they're probably like Men but taller and more graceful-like, more ethereal perhaps.
I get the sense that "The Choice" is more a matter of association rather than a once-and-for-all choosing. Earendil chose to be elven because he was stuck with elves and Ainur until the end of Arda. Elros wanted to be King of Numenor so, he chose mortality. Elrond lives in Rivendell with a bunch of Elven refugees. So, he chose to be counted as an elf. The choice seems to depend on the company you intend to keep.
Thank you. Another great video by the best source of Tolkien on TH-cam. Please, keep up the excellent work!
Great video yoystan and to add to your question about Arwen I believe she and her brothers were given the choice to either be elves or humans and I think she was human she just decided to pass away in a special place that was important to both her and Aragorn. As for her brothers I think they stayed in middle earth until Arwen passed and they said goodbye to their nieces and nephew before leaving for the undying lands to be with the rest of the eldar!
I'm so happy I found this channel! I've been fascinated in recent months in the world of Arda and it's history. This channel has been pivotal in my endeavor. Thank you for your time effort toward your content!
Great Video on the Half-Elves!
May the Stars watch over you!
If Legolas was able to recognise the "look" of a part-Elf human when meeting Prince Imrahil, perhaps there were more Elf/Man crosses than the ones in the histories. Maybe the Silvan realms were more relaxed about the purity of their bloodlines.
Great video as always Yoystan!
An especially enjoyable video! Thank you for all the work you do! This channel is a bright spot on TH-cam!
Have you ever wondered how awkward it was when Elrond finally turned up in the West without any of the children that Celebrian hadn't seen in over 500 years?
In 1981 I was married to an elven beauty. Alas, as you said about dying from a broken heart. She died in 2011 from a broken heart after our son had died early that year in January. Her gentle soul could not bear the loss of our son in a fire. I do not know how it was born by my soul.
This stranger is sorry for your loss. I truly cannot imagine it.
May you find solace in your grief ❤️
Another great video Yoystan! I found it quite intriguing when I was reading the Silmarillion and the appendices at the end of ROTK for the fact that each of these pairings set up some of the biggest stories and also becoming some of the most powerful families in Middle Earth and how they are all connected from Beren and Luthien up to Aragorn and Arwen.
Yay, I didn’t realize how much I wanted this video! 🥰 As always, well done and highly informative. 👏🏻👏🏻
Felt arwen died an elf much like faenor's mom. She chose to move on dont know if mandos will allow her to meet her husband in the after life without permission from eru
She chose the fate of men, she imparts to Aragorn that mortality is her choice instead of a rewind to her previous status after Aragorn dies. She dies like the ancient Numenoreans died, willingly and quietly. Greater than the usual kind of death.
She chose like Luthien, to be mortal and eventually leave the world like other Men.
Hello Yoystan,
Thank you so much for this video and especially thank you for finally explaining to me the mystery of the elvish blood in Prince Imrahil. He is one of my favorite characters. He is in the story for such a brief time and gets overlooked in all the adaptions, like Bombadil. For me though, his characterization makes him practically on the same level of hero as Aragorn.
Thanks,
Javier
Haven’t watched one of your videos in like 6 months, so I’ve got some hectic bingeing to do😂
"Hectic binging." Beautiful phrase 😂
Half elves, but no less iconic than the pure bred elves.
Well, actually Elrond and Elros are more elf than human. 56% elf, 38% human and 6% Maiar.
I’ve been wanting to watch this one for a while. Great 👍
I really enjoyed this one! Thank you for clarifying certain questions; I had no idea there were so many elvish/human love stories. Looking forward to the video on Aragorn and Arwen (last year's on Faramir and Eowyn is still one of my very favorite TH-cam videos, which I revisit frequently).
Another great video, Thank you for all your hard work and after finishing the Silmarillian myself your Timline of arda series is really great too :)
Thanks. Great subject. I like your professor Tolkien in memoriam on the community page earlier
Beautiful video. Would you be so kind to do one on Elladan and Elrohir? You always seem to be able to find even the tiniest bit of information on your subjects that is not common knowledge. Very admirable.
Elladan and Elrohir also appear in the fanfiction video Born of Hope.
Perhaps you are half human half Ilúvatar. Truly this would make sense, with such power and depth in your voice. It could only be so
No, he is Tom Bombadil actually
i like to think that Elrond's children were given the same opportunity to choose their path. mainly because the idea that Arwen would never again meet Aragorn in the afterlife is very sad.
You have provided TH-cam with an invaluable resource, sir. I thank you!!
Elrond’s children had to travel to Valinor with him when he departed, or they would share the fate of men. The Tale of Years tells us that both Elladan and Elohir stayed in Middle Earth with the grandfather Cleleborn for a time
Great subject I've wondered about
Aha yes! I like the Peredhil and their stories.
I haven't delved into this level of escapism since my teenage years...
I always wonder about this half elves hope it a good video stay safe and as always I bid you stand men of the west
Yay! A nice late night surprise for me while in bed! Can’t wait to watch!
My man posting a vid right before I call it a night
Love the content and want to ask, if you have one, what is your favorite Middle Earth story out of the collective work? Mine is definitely the Fall of Gondolin, the stand alone novel was fantastic
Thank you for the support, my friend! Ah that is too difficult a question to answer. For me, it really depends on the mood I am in. Sometimes, The Hobbit and that adventure is just what I need, when at others I need the deepness and philosophy of the Silmarillion, or the epicness of the LOTR. I love it all!
@@MenoftheWest I too love it all, very much, and have ever since the animated films introduced me to the world, long before I saw the live action films or read the books
Akallabeth
Your pronunciation of Earendil reminds me of birdsong. That's awesome.
Amazing video as always!!
Picked up LotR again, on Audiobook, thanks to this channel
*Happy New year my friend! Thank you for all the great content!
I ❤️ Sunday nights in Middle Earth
🍻
Unfortunately, as confirmed by Christopher Tolkien, Dior and his twin sons were mortal... because Manwe, in contemplating Earendil's fate, stated that all beings with even a drop of mortal blood, inherit the Gift of Men. But Eru gave to Manwe authority to decide the fate of those whose inheritance included the fate of immortals and mortals alike.... and as we all know, the decision was made to let the half-elf choose. But before this decision was made, both Dior and presumably his sons, had already died, with their inheritance of the fate of men being default.
Fantastic as always Yoystan!
God I love this world so much🥴. Thanks for another great vid!
The choice given to Arwen was to marry Aragorn and have a mortal life & death or sail into the west and live as Elves, bound within arda, deathless, for as long as arda endures. So obviously she did get to make "The choice of the half-elven." As I understand it, if they chose to be counted among the Elves then the next generation would be able to make the choice as well, but once a half-elf had chosen to be counted among Men then the next generation wouldn't be able to make the choice.
☹️
Great topic for the next video. I cant wait!!!
Arwen's fate is a little hard to pin down, but the strong impression I've always had was that she had never thought about her choice that much (being quite young) until she met Aragorn. At that moment, "her doom fell on her", and she knew what would happen. She loved him and would have to give up everything to have him. She was spared making the actual decision because of Elrond's charge that Aragorn had to reunite the kingdoms and win the crown, so the decision was put off. But when everything went down, she put her hand in his and made the choice. I've always had the impression that this decision was fresh at the time she spoke to Frodo about giving him her place on the ship, and that she spoke with some pain because of her family (but that's just my view).
Apart from their stories being breath-taking they are also one-of-a-kind type of trope in fantasy. I've yet to come across another great fantasy book that made such considerations for its characters! The idea that self-creation as a biological choice and one's own destiny is full responsibility of the individual is marvelous.
The Line of Imrazor and Mithrellas also continued in the House of Stewards (or the House of the Princes of Ithilien) because Denethor's wife, the mother of Boromir and Faramir, was Prince Imrahil's sister
I just had a thought--wouldn't it have been a bittersweet thing if Elrond had traveled to Numenor to say his final goodbye to his brother Elros at the end of his life? I wish Tolkien would have written about that meeting.
Same here.
Beautiful
I really love this channel and the work that goes into it. Especially the art work. While I love and appreciate the Peter Jackson adaptations, it's nice to see the work that came before it as well.
Whoa. I’m in love with this artist’s conception of Arwen. Liv is no slouch of course, but I like the redhead vibe. Seems to suit for some reason.
A very great video as always Men of the West.
Nice Mellon, right before 1pm...A video on one of the smallest species *in numbers, not size* of Middle Earth!!!
It's Interesting you brought up the Children of Hurin, I am currently rereading it for the 100,000th or so time...
But this the first time I read it after seeing The Mandalorian, and I honestly could see Pedro Pascal as Turin...it's weird!!!
Tell me what you think about that Fan Cast idea, But until what happened in the north during the War of the Ring, Marion Baggins Out!!!
My #1 favorite thing is the fan art: how beautiful the elves and their cities are.
Thanks!
You can really hear the reverence that Yoystan has for Elros, the same reverence that I have for he is one of the greatest men to have lived in Middle-Earth. Through Elessar his legacy and the glory of old Númenor endures!
O wow. I literally just rewatched the Fellowship of the Ring... as in the end credits are still playing.
My brother is looking for all the audio books on cd for me. I've become a huge fan of the 1st and 2nd age over 3-4 weeks learned so much.
Yes!
They were born with genuine love 🥰
I didn't know I needed this but I did
Oh man, if Aegnor and Finrod ever do find Andreth again she is going to kick their asses so hard
I love the you sing The last goodbye I can listen to that song for hour's
So Faramir and Boromir also have some Elven blood in them because their mother is Imrahil's sister.
Well I think it might depend on translation issue; Fate of Arwen. Because in Finnish translations Tolkien clearly states that Arwen took her own life in Lothlorien after Aragorn died (Also kinda poetic and sad after all Arwen was known the last Elven maiden amongst the mortals and after her passing through her own hand also disappeared the last bit of magic from the world itself) because as an Elven kind she cannot die in old age, and no one wanted to kill her and Elves cannot die in disease or illness. Arwen Choose to stay in Middle-Earth but didn't become mortal...
Of course that would be helpful if we could ask the writer himself about this issue :P
I like to think that Arwen was re-united with her father and brothers after she passed away in Lothlorien when Aragorn died. But there's nothing to indicate that that is so. It's just a little less sad to think that that is the case.
Good stuff!
It's been ages since I read LOTR or the appendices where Arwen's case is handled, so I might not remember this all correctly, but it seems like she and her brothers were given the choice of the Half-elves. When she met Aragorn in Lothlorien, long before the events of LOTR, she made her choice for his sake and was destined to die as a human. Later, when Aragorn steps down from his throne, he tells her to repent of her choice, but she refuses. So she at least was given the choice, which makes it seem that her brothers had it too.
In an end note in War of the Jewels, Christopher Tolkien pointed out that Dior was a mortal man, because he was born after Beren & Luthien returned from the Halls of Mandos, when they were both mortal. So for a while, a mortal man ruled Doriath. That was something I always wondered. Also, only Earendil, Elwing & their children were given the choice, because they were the only ones offered the choice by the Valar. Why the choice was passed to Elrond's children but not to Elros' children is something I still don't really get.
Oh that is super fascinating! Thanks for letting me know!
@@MenoftheWest No problem. The enigma of Dior always bothered me. It took me decades to find that out.
Elros was mortal. That choice is irreversable.
Anyone who is part Man is mortal. That's a rule. There was an exception made for Earendil, Elwing and their sons. They were allowed to choose. But as soon as the choice is made to be mortal, that's it, your descendants are mortal too.
I thought it was pretty clear that Arwen became human and thus was able to join Aragorn and share the Doom of man.
"Elwing, on the other hand, would learn the language of the sea birds in the undying lands and learn to fly among them."
This story must have been known to another who could fly through the skies, a great cetacean. As this mighty Fish of Wind slept within the great egg upon the mountain he surely recalled the tale of Elwing. Hence, in Mabe Village there appeared a lovely young girl. Many a day she spent at Toronbo beach with the sea birds singing as her heart yearned to fly with them.
Verily it be the nature of dreams to end. Though she was almost certainly fated to fade away as the sleeper stirred within the egg, she did not fade, she flew.
Live well dearest Marin.
May every distant land you fly to be all you imaged it would be and more.
This raised the question, was the children of Hurin and the fall of Gondolin happening at around the same time or does one come before the other?
Pretty much the same time. In fact, when Tuor and his elf guide were on their way to Gondolin, they saw Hurin in the distance. Tuor and Hurin were cousins, btw.
@@maksphoto78 thanks heaps for clarifying. I suspected as much but wasn’t 100% sure. :-) It’s crazy that they never met properly and didn’t know who each other was. Especially since their fathers had a close relationship if I remember correctly.
It would be interesting to consider what would happen had Aegnor did indeed married to Andreth because when it comes to the union of Men and Elves the male would tend to be from the race of men and the female are of the elves but the circumstances between Aegnor and Andreth is still unique as it is the only instance that an Elven male nearly married a human female.
You deserve the highest form of Magic Anything.
As usual, good vid.
who makes all those pictures? they are so beautiful
Can someone explain why these unions of elves and men only seem to be between human males and elven females but not the reverse?
These are the recorded unions. There might have been more such unions, including between women and male elves.
Because men are enamoured by beauty but women aren't so superficial. Just my sexist theory thanks for reading
Symbolism. These couples are modeled after Tolkien himself and his wife. Beautiful princess falls for common man and all that.
Agenor fell in love with the human woman Andreth but they didn't marry because elves don't marry in time of war.
Both of the Sons of Ilúvatar were so different but so similar that their destinies were doomed to converge.
I always thought they had only one child, daughter Elwing...
Please make a video about the Dark elfs of middle earth.
Please do a video on what if bilbo had killed Gollum/Sméagol
Theory video idea: what if frodo let sam carry the ring for him after minas morgul?
The sound of your port-a-potty is pretty good. Also... hagrid and cheebacca were the best Elvis.
That's sweet.
This take is quite fascinating, but I do still prefer how half-elves work in D&D, being both manish and elvish, and yet of neither.
Can you do a video on which maps of middle-earth and arda we should trust because I see many and don`t know which one Tolkien would consider canon