Are you comfortable co-existing with the other creatures we share or bodies with? Leave your thoughts in the comments. Watch the entire debate here: iai.tv/video/the-agents-of-life?TH-cam&
We aren't living "on" the environment, we are embedded in it. All of our chemical interactions have relied on the environment they are embedded in. Everything "falling" into their chemical interaction. That the same equation that describes pollen in water is the same that describes Wall Street during normal commerce. It shows that EVERYthing we do, choices we make, that everything/ anything ever, does, are based on that same basic processes. Chemical interactions "falling" into their lowest energy state. And our choices / wants etc are because they are following that.
but it’s not only that, even through time, each moment of time there are new individuals. but it’s beautiful we feel like one individual that goes through time and we feel we have free will
No, there aren't new moments of time or new individuals. There are no individuals whatsoever, an individual is nothing but a conceptual thought form that we've pasted onto reality, there is one being and all is it and mind breaks it up into many labels for the purpose of function. Language has crippled mind.
@@ProjectMoff I wouldn't say crippled. Language is limited. But by limiting the way we think, we gain creativity. Just look at all the crazy ideas and inventions coming out of the human mind, for better and for worse.
This point of discussion is best handled imo by biologist Mike Levin, who sidesteps the language games around "individuals" and "consciousness" and "sentience" to instead focus on simply "what is the most appropriate INTERACTION PROTOCOL to achieve the current goal" It makes sense to think of an individual organism if you're trying to condition it BEHAVIOURALLY, to perform some action, but if you're trying to effect it GENETICALLY, then reward and punishment becomes less relevant than biochemistry...
I personally like to think of this interaction protocol as "communication". It's a term that has a more precise definition than "conciousness" and "sentience" etc. Also opens up the door to look at systems-biology through a linguistic lense, which I think is awesome.
@@laaaliiiluuu In the Universal sense, yes, everything is One (Me/You/Us). However, in a local sense, we limit ourselves to be individuals (intentionally or unintentionally). Is this important? Universally, it isn't. Individually, it is. Regards :)
@@laaaliiiluuu That is THE question, isn't it? I contemplate it often. I can offer a thought experiment. Imagine for a moment: You are everything in existence, and you have all perspectives and complete knowledge (some might call this God, some might not, doesn't change what it is). There would be nothing to do because you already ARE the answer to every question, you ARE every feeling, and you ARE every capability. What would you do to allow yourself the opportunity to experience something wonderful for the first time again? Perhaps you would remove your own awareness for a while in order to allow yourself the opportunity to experience everything again. We offer the Universe/God opportunities to experience itself through us. We are all thoughts within God. I encourage you to search for your own answer - perhaps you will offer a perspective that adds to the picture 💞
@@blackman811 Sounds like a cool hypothesis! And probably is the only one that truly makes sense. We are just an expression of the Everything experiencing itself through some form of voluntary amnesia lol. But then why did we create suffering? 😅 At least we could have made the whole journey more pleasant lol.
We are also in many places at the same time that turns out to be just one thing, one universe. There may be more we just haven't observed that information yet.
biologically, there's no difference between a human, a plant and a bacterium. we are all of the same origin; mutation created the orders and phyla just as it does within species today. for me the biggest mindblow is how animals, being the most recent, have the least biological variation, while plants, fungi and particularly microbes have the most. our consciousness, however, does present a unique perspective, which modern humans cling to passionately..
You’re missing the point, the sum of the parts makes what seems to be the physical individual and homeostasis around core balances between systems is what drives reactions at the “individual” level
@@ValidatingUsername and yet human evolution exploded when we started relying on a system relying on other organisms (agriculture). Agricultural species have been coevolving with us since then. Does that make civilization a single evolutionary individual? Well the reason it’s a conversation is because it’s more complex than that. It’s both yes and no. The concept of an individual is abstract and while useful, isn’t truly real.
@@Aliens-Are-Our-Friends2027the realization that turned me to Buddhism. Everything is just a sea of energy that interacts in complex and interesting ways.
By analogy, in the wave particle association, a single particle is a detail of a wave, by shift of perception to focus on a single particle we then miss the light (wave). The biological process is very complex, it is in nature's use of information that is key to intelligent life.
philosophy teaches us to think and ask questions, spirituality generates aetherial visions for us to reach for, science rigorously removes the aspects we can deem false from these visions until we reach their core. Many people accept only one or two of these disciplines, when the beauty of thought lies within their harmony.
@@sesanjoseph8805 He/she probably refers to concepts like the dao from daoism or the holy spirit from christianity or the brahman and athman from hinduism that emphasize a universal onenes connecting all living beings.
WE are all connected with each other sharing the common platform and branches of same energy expressed differently with endless permutations and combinations but the matrix is the same. Even the organic and inorganic molecules are interchangeable.
Buddhism teaches one is responsible for ending one’s own suffering through one’s own individual effort. Compassion for others is a means toward one’s own salvation
naturally speaking we are all living inside an interconnected environment where things are connected and communicates to each other in mycelium network way.
I’ve never known a mystic, hippie, or spiritualist to have a materialistic explanation of things (this is the domain of science), but to be fair, I’m not sure what you’re saying. Could you be more specific?
Yeah, but those people use vague, unhelpful terminology like "spirit" and "vibration." Science took the time to build a useful, descriptive language for the phenomenon, over hundreds of years. And now we'll be able to do more useful things with it. And when someone cries witch and wants to burn us at the stake, we'll be able to explain ourselves instead of praying to an imaginary god for salvation.
I was loving this conversation, I was thinking I should subscribe, decided to go ahead and do that and then I heard to continue listening to this conversation please go to. Nope never mind thanks anyway
Would be great if you would post the full videos here on TH-cam. The TH-cam servers are made to deliver high volume with no lag. I tried watching on your site but the video was unwatchable due to video buffering and lag.
It's both. There's no one or the other! BIOLOGICALLY, we're all parts of the same thing, but we are not only biological beings. We have consciousness and that changes every. I believe consciousness is the ultimate feature of beings. And that's what's being ignored by our science. We ignore what makes us asses everything and attribute to ourselves the nature of what we are studying - the natural world. Certain dimensions of ourselves belongs to natural world. But our consciousness will or assessment to to our instincts is a part of nature and also not.
Just wrote on that above. Fairly certain our mitochondria provide our consciousness & instincts running as a biological boot code and operating system in our eukaryotic host neural networks. Not specific to humans either.
First thought on seeing the title is Ken Wilber's holon concept. The individual exists as a contextual form of organization, but with the understanding that it is a whole made of parts, and a part of many other wholes. Self\other\group are just perceptual language tools. They help communicate the contextual level you are talking about to others.
We evolved from visitors who came to earth and stayed until they perfected humans. When I say they stayed until .... well that's that's not 100% true, they're still here. Because reality isn't the physical world. It's a multitude Dimensional multiverse. Dimensions are unlimited, so while you think we're the only ones here, that is far from the truth. ❤
The difference between the clip of the experts we just watched and your comment is they have studied a thing called 'evidence'... You have merely made up some stuff called 'nonsense'... :)
@davebuchan81 thanks Dave for your comments. I only speak from actual experience and every time I do, I receive communication from others with zero experience and then, thankfully, from some who have similar experiences. The multidimensional bit, that's a now permanent daily experience for me, multiverse, even scientists are confirming this. I'll let you in on a few things before they become known by humanity as a whole. The Black Hole at the centre of our galaxy is not a singularity, there's two. Black Holes at the centre of galaxies determain the physics of each Galaxy. Undeniable evidence of and communication from ET'S will happen BEFORE 2030. Space is a single point, HERE. Time is a single moment, NOW. Though we experience Space/Distance as real and time as linear, understanding reality will allow space travel instantly, without any kind of propellant. Enjoy Dave 😉
Somethings are so complicated it would take days if not years to explain or understand most people get bored with science I have a studying science for 40 years I still don’t understand fully I don’t consider myself intelligent
The ego is the illusion of self, there is no real separation between you and the Universe. Science is converging to what spiritual teachers have been saying since the dawn of humanity.
In the same way that we would be unable to speak with absolute certainty about one major decision's outcome because making that decision changes the reality of things, it is folly to make statements or assumptions, such as anthropomorphizing or explaining behavior, or rationalizing... these people on the panel are not mere armchair intellectuals but masters in their field... I would not dispute that. However, when one master or expert maintains a contentious position like the absence of agency or individuals and another master brings in Dawkins or Gould or Wilson or Pinker or such, there is room, for even the enthusiast or interested layman to drift through the concepts. Sometimes the layman is even able to make intuitive leaps through mistakes or being able to see things from an amateur perspective. Often the layman doesnt see or appreciate the wealth of knowledge the master has forgotten already, but there is great value in being cognizant of those who are completely familiar, and those who stumble upon epiphany.
Just because you’re biologically, diverse, doesn’t mean you’re not an individual. Individualism is what makes human beings special. Uniqueness is what gives people value.
_"Who's asking?"_ You know... humanity is held back because of rhetoric like this (in my opinion). Is it wrong to ask/talk about something that most other people couldn't bother pondering about? Making a "who asked" statement is typically a conversation-shutting tactic, why are you trying to do that here?
@@Gelatinocyte2 "Who's asking" as in who is the agent asking this particular question? I have found taking a moment to ponder what the other person actually means can be helpful.
Indeed. Nature spend millions of years to create a self regulating whole in balance, of wheels within wheels, of millions of relationships. And we go selfish gene, because capitalism won. Our ideologies blind us to reality. And only now we start seeing the relationship, with still not a clue how deep they go.
Selfish gene is not only the most modern and encopassing idea, but it also explains with even more detail everything that precedes it. It has nothing to do with capitalism, it for now is the best lens to see all nature and relationships that exist (and the ideia of everything being connected in biology is way older than even darwin's theory, we have seen that for a long time, as said in the video)
@@lucasfc4587 Just wonder how many aspect of life aren't selfish at all. They collaborate, die for the body, their kind, their queen. Just read up how trees help feed each other, even those cut down, who'll never grow again. The US paradigm of number 1 before everything else blinds people to other realities. Sorry. It hurts the planet.
@@KootFloris Oh, sorry. I thought you were arguing against its existence. So, I’ll explain shortly: the “selfish” in selfish gene is not about how “selfishness” occurs it is just the catchy name given by the author of the book with the same name. The main ideia is that genes are the smallest unit of evolution, not individuals. I can see where the confusion begins, but it is way more than meets the eye! There is quite a bit of information about the selfish gene online and I encourage you to search for it, it’s quite interesting
These multiple beings constitute an individual, from the latin word individuus, which means "can't be divide". Every single cell of an individual can't live by itself, can't be separated from the whole...
The confusion surrounding identity (especially human identity) is understandable… …it’s like trying to understand a human brain, an individual’s human brain, as a generic object that can be studied, known & that individual information applied without ‘surprises’ to any other brain in the universe. “Yes, we are all individuals”
I wonder why is survival so important. What are we Striving to survive for. Why do we all want to carry our genes on into the future .. it's like there is maybe a moment in time that will really matter and so perhaps we all want our matter within that time ❤️ Also I guess it has something to do with flow, forward motion of the cycles .. in some respects it just is; 'to be,' we must move and to move it has to be within a cycle because that is how existence works. Existence is what it is all for otherwise there would be nothing .. but also 'nothing' isn't even possible ... The spiral of cycles ❤
Speaking of group survival to ensure replication, individual pollen collecting bees who come back to hive entrance intoxicated from ingesting tree resin are killed instantly so as not to infect/ influence other bees demonstrates group survival tactics
We prove that we are individuals by not living in a state of total hive-mind. Our biology may all be relatively the same but our environments are not. And what of genetic and congenital abnormalities? Are they not included as part of the diversity that makes up all species of living things?
The ability to form a symbiotic relationship with other species (until conditions change - example corrals) is still the result of evolution by natural selection of an individual organism. Those individuals are doing better than their distant cousins who were unable to form symbiotic relationships and probably died out.
Everything was going great esp the guy from the 2nd to the right. That species was amazing. But at 5:20 we of c ourselves get lost in gender. Name successful common instances of complex organisms that have power gender?
Individual implies the personality or soul aspects. Unless this part of the brain can ever be calculated and replicated mathematically, if there even is the mathematical solution, which don't think there is, we are individuals. However we are merely points of attention in the universe observing itself. We may all share the same types of building.blocks.but configuration and mix can be quite different. There are many food items that use the same ingredients, flour, egg and sugar.but the end products aren't the same.
This is an interesting conversation. Two remarks, though: 1) The only person of color in the group isn't credited 2) When she raises one of the most important questions, about "Biology Vocabulary" she is immediately (and incredibly) shut down by Frances. I doubt she'd have done the same with Ludwig Wittgenstein, who would probably raise the same concern. What a shame
unfortunately your website player is worse than YT. It randomly stops, cannot buffer enough and there is doubletap 10s jump function missing. so it is a pitty you dont post it here all...
@@JhonJairoBernal-i3j science and philosophy have always been intertwined. One needs to think, sometimes outside the box, in order to be a good scientist
Are there autonomous individuals? As long as there is freedom…it is possible. I think this may be where this discussion is really going. And since human’s have mostly acquiesced to the king/slave model, individual’s seem more willing to be ‘collective personalities ’ than ‘free individual’s’. That may be a biological/evolutionary thing. However, I live in the U.S., I am wired to individual freedom. One atom in a system of 300 million atoms, the atoms, learn to be autonomous sometimes, but can come together and work as a collective other times….like a war. And it worked pretty well… until the parasites moved in and multiplied. So the system may not last, and will go back to the ‘collective’ slave/king model….. sort of like a giant bee hive. 🐝🐝 I feel extremely fortunate to have landed in the U.S. while it was in its stage of individual atoms in a closed economic capitalist, free system… before the parasites invaded and poisoned the system.😊. That system will never happen again.❤
Genes differ per individual. Individuals want to propagate their own genes. They don’t want to propagate the concept of the gene or other people’s genes. Hence the selfish gene. Dawkins approach to altruism is fundamentally flawed. Self sacrifice makes no sense in Dawkins model.
Simply don’t find it hard to see humans, and other animals, as transport media for bacteria. Whatever we think of ourselves, will never be more than a point of view, one if many.
I was speculating this theme w/ someone. Perhaps we are multidimensional beings, existing in many places, in many times, past, present and future all depending on our capacity, or what region of the world you're from. Either way we all react, respond and reflect the world around us, illusion or not. Say we take away all the social, political or tribal brainwashing, what are we then ?
You are living in a body in this universe, and each cell inside your body is a whole city of living components inside the universe that is you. A liver cell may not be aware of the existence of a pancreatic cell, yet both work synergistically for your benefit. You are the god of all that lives within you, and you live within the god that is our universe.
@@rigaleb The I or The ego which is the localized conciousness of the greater cosmic conciousness which is God or to better say an aspect of it because he is dimensionless. In this sense all is one because God is within you. Just look within yourself. Seek and you shall find.
I think of a cell not as an individual unit, but as a cooperation of multiple genes; IMO, there's a selfish _group_ of genes, not selfish individual gene.
@CRUISEWITHSPIRIT Verily so indeed! Ontologically, however; - and Im certain you know this already - "we're all livin on a yellow submarine' , goin gently down the stream, merily x4 , life is but a dream"
Did I miss testing that proved humans and neanderthals share DNA? I haven't studied it a lot in recent years, but I recall in college doing a Biology paper and citing a "Nature" article saying otherwise.
I am a flock of a trillion cells some of which build and share a representation of how well the flock is doing at surviving and reproducing. As a single thing I am therefore just that representation and the resultant partially coherent behaviour of the flock of cells. Death is the end of representation and coherence.
I is the whole body, it is the body that thinks. The body is the entity there is no entity inside the body. There is no individual as you can't separate ýourself from the environment which keeps you alive. You are the nerve end of the universe looking back at itself. Basicly we are all the same but different.
🎵🎶 Like the bacteria sticks to the wall, 🎵🎶 Like the flora clings to the bowel, 🎵🎶 Like you'll never get rid of your shadow, 🎶🎵 Human, your gas will always smell foul!
😂 communication? Not all of nature uses sexual reproduction, that actually came later after the clade of Opisthokonta. And sexual reproduction shuffles the genetic deck which increases weeding out of detrimental mutations to ensure it doesn't happen to the entire species like in microbes that create clones of themselves.
😂 communication? Not all of nature uses sexual reproduction, that actually came later after the clade of Opisthokonta. And sexual reproduction shuffles the genetic deck which increases weeding out of detrimental mutations to ensure it doesn't happen to the entire species like in microbes that create clones of themselves.
😂 I like systems biology by symbiosis and being composed of living beings does not mean that the individual, the system itself does not exist. And noone has ever asserted that individuals evolve, populations evolve.
The difference between the clip of the experts we just watched and your comment is they have studied a thing called 'evidence'... You have merely made up some stuff called 'nonsense'... :)
@@readynowforever3676 I've had a pet theory for a few decades that we(species on earth) have the equivalent of a multi-planetary corporation's trade mark in our DNA, if only we knew how to read it 😉
Evolution has never been about the individual. That’s a totally false claim. Evolution only and always has occurred at the population level. The fact that humans are colonial organisms, akin to a coral reef, does nothing to upset the modern synthesis as Denis Noble constantly bemoans.
@@whatabouttheearth I find it telling that he’s NEVER mentioned by other evolutionary biologists as an inspiration, or listed as a credible source from which to learn solid science. He just seems like a cranky old contrarian who throws darts in the hope of hitting a bullseye some day… but the board is behind him.🤭
Individualism has been cultivated mainly in western societies. The idea of free will for the assumed individual is the cherry on top of this fake cake which we love to regurgitate over and over again. Individualism can be called the most destructive doctrine man has ever been confronted with.
Are you comfortable co-existing with the other creatures we share or bodies with? Leave your thoughts in the comments.
Watch the entire debate here: iai.tv/video/the-agents-of-life?TH-cam&
We aren't living "on" the environment, we are embedded in it.
All of our chemical interactions have relied on the environment they are embedded in.
Everything "falling" into their chemical interaction.
That the same equation that describes pollen in water is the same that describes Wall Street during normal commerce.
It shows that EVERYthing we do, choices we make, that everything/ anything ever, does, are based on that same basic processes.
Chemical interactions "falling" into their lowest energy state.
And our choices / wants etc are because they are following that.
We are all one at the deepest level of our own Being ❤
Do I have a choice? 😛
but it’s not only that, even through time, each moment of time there are new individuals. but it’s beautiful we feel like one individual that goes through time and we feel we have free will
No, there aren't new moments of time or new individuals. There are no individuals whatsoever, an individual is nothing but a conceptual thought form that we've pasted onto reality, there is one being and all is it and mind breaks it up into many labels for the purpose of function. Language has crippled mind.
@@ProjectMoff I wouldn't say crippled. Language is limited. But by limiting the way we think, we gain creativity. Just look at all the crazy ideas and inventions coming out of the human mind, for better and for worse.
This point of discussion is best handled imo by biologist Mike Levin, who sidesteps the language games around "individuals" and "consciousness" and "sentience" to instead focus on simply "what is the most appropriate INTERACTION PROTOCOL to achieve the current goal"
It makes sense to think of an individual organism if you're trying to condition it BEHAVIOURALLY, to perform some action, but if you're trying to effect it GENETICALLY, then reward and punishment becomes less relevant than biochemistry...
Yea he’s on point
I personally like to think of this interaction protocol as "communication". It's a term that has a more precise definition than "conciousness" and "sentience" etc. Also opens up the door to look at systems-biology through a linguistic lense, which I think is awesome.
Wonderful discussion. Even this individual statement is part of the larger individual. The paradox of being a divided individual...
So if I talk to you here I am basically talking to myself and vice versa?
Hello me/you/us!
Sincerely,
Me/You/Us
@@laaaliiiluuu In the Universal sense, yes, everything is One (Me/You/Us). However, in a local sense, we limit ourselves to be individuals (intentionally or unintentionally). Is this important? Universally, it isn't. Individually, it is.
Regards :)
@@blackman811 So why are we individuals then? Because we want to experience life from different perspectives? But why do we want that?
@@laaaliiiluuu That is THE question, isn't it? I contemplate it often. I can offer a thought experiment.
Imagine for a moment: You are everything in existence, and you have all perspectives and complete knowledge (some might call this God, some might not, doesn't change what it is). There would be nothing to do because you already ARE the answer to every question, you ARE every feeling, and you ARE every capability. What would you do to allow yourself the opportunity to experience something wonderful for the first time again? Perhaps you would remove your own awareness for a while in order to allow yourself the opportunity to experience everything again. We offer the Universe/God opportunities to experience itself through us. We are all thoughts within God.
I encourage you to search for your own answer - perhaps you will offer a perspective that adds to the picture 💞
@@blackman811 Sounds like a cool hypothesis! And probably is the only one that truly makes sense. We are just an expression of the Everything experiencing itself through some form of voluntary amnesia lol. But then why did we create suffering? 😅 At least we could have made the whole journey more pleasant lol.
We are also in many places at the same time that turns out to be just one thing, one universe. There may be more we just haven't observed that information yet.
biologically, there's no difference between a human, a plant and a bacterium. we are all of the same origin; mutation created the orders and phyla just as it does within species today. for me the biggest mindblow is how animals, being the most recent, have the least biological variation, while plants, fungi and particularly microbes have the most. our consciousness, however, does present a unique perspective, which modern humans cling to passionately..
You’re missing the point, the sum of the parts makes what seems to be the physical individual and homeostasis around core balances between systems is what drives reactions at the “individual” level
it's all one, whole, holographic field. Everything is one thing.
@@Aliens-Are-Our-Friends2027 Do you have any definitions of or for this holographic field you’re claiming?
@@ValidatingUsername and yet human evolution exploded when we started relying on a system relying on other organisms (agriculture). Agricultural species have been coevolving with us since then. Does that make civilization a single evolutionary individual? Well the reason it’s a conversation is because it’s more complex than that. It’s both yes and no. The concept of an individual is abstract and while useful, isn’t truly real.
@@Aliens-Are-Our-Friends2027the realization that turned me to Buddhism. Everything is just a sea of energy that interacts in complex and interesting ways.
By analogy, in the wave particle association, a single particle is a detail of a wave, by shift of perception to focus on a single particle we then miss the light (wave). The biological process is very complex, it is in nature's use of information that is key to intelligent life.
i like when science discovers and proves what spirituality observed and concluded long ago
@@autumnstoptwo example ?
how so?
This is a claim. Where is the evidence.
philosophy teaches us to think and ask questions, spirituality generates aetherial visions for us to reach for, science rigorously removes the aspects we can deem false from these visions until we reach their core. Many people accept only one or two of these disciplines, when the beauty of thought lies within their harmony.
@@sesanjoseph8805 He/she probably refers to concepts like the dao from daoism or the holy spirit from christianity or the brahman and athman from hinduism that emphasize a universal onenes connecting all living beings.
What an interesting group of thinkers!
WE are all connected with each other sharing the common platform and branches of same energy expressed differently with endless permutations and combinations but the matrix is the same. Even the organic and inorganic molecules are interchangeable.
That’s what Buddhism has been telling us for 2500 years.
Buddhism teaches one is responsible for ending one’s own suffering through one’s own individual effort. Compassion for others is a means toward one’s own salvation
Revisionist history. Buddhism has not taught evolution.
I think you're right, the Buddhists tell us that we are not the mind or the body so there is no individual "I".
And the Hindus for 5000 years
What ?
naturally speaking we are all living inside an interconnected environment where things are connected and communicates to each other in mycelium network way.
I love our Elders ...🙌🙌❤❤❤
Consciousness is our relationship with all living beings.
Khalid Masood
Truth 💚 🙏
This is what the mystics, hippies and spiritualists have been saying for centuries/millenia. About time you caught up, science.
What makes you think science hasn't been aware of this?
I’ve never known a mystic, hippie, or spiritualist to have a materialistic explanation of things (this is the domain of science), but to be fair, I’m not sure what you’re saying. Could you be more specific?
Yeah, but those people use vague, unhelpful terminology like "spirit" and "vibration." Science took the time to build a useful, descriptive language for the phenomenon, over hundreds of years. And now we'll be able to do more useful things with it. And when someone cries witch and wants to burn us at the stake, we'll be able to explain ourselves instead of praying to an imaginary god for salvation.
Are these the same mystics et al who also cure cancers with bicarb?
I was loving this conversation, I was thinking I should subscribe, decided to go ahead and do that and then I heard to continue listening to this conversation please go to. Nope never mind thanks anyway
Would be great if you would post the full videos here on TH-cam. The TH-cam servers are made to deliver high volume with no lag. I tried watching on your site but the video was unwatchable due to video buffering and lag.
Humans trying to explain life itself without giving it some grand agency. It behaves much more cooperative and collaboratively than competitively.
We here because cooperation far outweighs competitiveness
So cooperation is more ... competitive.
@@albino_penguin2268
Play on words
It's both. There's no one or the other! BIOLOGICALLY, we're all parts of the same thing, but we are not only biological beings. We have consciousness and that changes every. I believe consciousness is the ultimate feature of beings. And that's what's being ignored by our science. We ignore what makes us asses everything and attribute to ourselves the nature of what we are studying - the natural world. Certain dimensions of ourselves belongs to natural world. But our consciousness will or assessment to to our instincts is a part of nature and also not.
@@vincentraddclus9490 definitely not ignored by neuroscientists.
Just wrote on that above. Fairly certain our mitochondria provide our consciousness & instincts running as a biological boot code and operating system in our eukaryotic host neural networks. Not specific to humans either.
@@fluiditynz You mean neurons right? They're the only cell designed for that in humans, and other animals.
First thought on seeing the title is Ken Wilber's holon concept. The individual exists as a contextual form of organization, but with the understanding that it is a whole made of parts, and a part of many other wholes. Self\other\group are just perceptual language tools. They help communicate the contextual level you are talking about to others.
We evolved from visitors who came to earth and stayed until they perfected humans. When I say they stayed until .... well that's that's not 100% true, they're still here. Because reality isn't the physical world. It's a multitude Dimensional multiverse. Dimensions are unlimited, so while you think we're the only ones here, that is far from the truth. ❤
The difference between the clip of the experts we just watched and your comment is they have studied a thing called 'evidence'... You have merely made up some stuff called 'nonsense'... :)
@davebuchan81 thanks Dave for your comments. I only speak from actual experience and every time I do, I receive communication from others with zero experience and then, thankfully, from some who have similar experiences.
The multidimensional bit, that's a now permanent daily experience for me, multiverse, even scientists are confirming this.
I'll let you in on a few things before they become known by humanity as a whole.
The Black Hole at the centre of our galaxy is not a singularity, there's two.
Black Holes at the centre of galaxies determain the physics of each Galaxy.
Undeniable evidence of and communication from ET'S will happen BEFORE 2030.
Space is a single point, HERE.
Time is a single moment, NOW.
Though we experience Space/Distance as real and time as linear, understanding reality will allow space travel instantly, without any kind of propellant.
Enjoy Dave 😉
Read the book "I Contain Multitudes" by Ed Yong. It's wonderful.
Thank you ! 👏 I love that guy.👍🏼
Brilliant book and author! Also, Behave, by Robert Sapolsky. Actually, any book or lecture or interview with Robert Sapolsky is worthwhile.
@@user-vi6ro8bd4l Thanks! I'll check it out.
@@TerriblePerfection omg. You guys would love the research of Michael Levin. Seek out his full presentation involving planaria here on youtube.
@@trombone7 Thank you for the suggestion! Added to my watch later list. 👍
Somethings are so complicated it would take days if not years to explain or understand most people get bored with science I have a studying science for 40 years I still don’t understand fully I don’t consider myself intelligent
Don't worry, no one understands fully...
The ego is the illusion of self, there is no real separation between you and the Universe. Science is converging to what spiritual teachers have been saying since the dawn of humanity.
In the same way that we would be unable to speak with absolute certainty about one major decision's outcome because making that decision changes the reality of things, it is folly to make statements or assumptions, such as anthropomorphizing or explaining behavior, or rationalizing... these people on the panel are not mere armchair intellectuals but masters in their field... I would not dispute that. However, when one master or expert maintains a contentious position like the absence of agency or individuals and another master brings in Dawkins or Gould or Wilson or Pinker or such, there is room, for even the enthusiast or interested layman to drift through the concepts. Sometimes the layman is even able to make intuitive leaps through mistakes or being able to see things from an amateur perspective. Often the layman doesnt see or appreciate the wealth of knowledge the master has forgotten already, but there is great value in being cognizant of those who are completely familiar, and those who stumble upon epiphany.
Just because you’re biologically, diverse, doesn’t mean you’re not an individual. Individualism is what makes human beings special. Uniqueness is what gives people value.
In terms of human beings, there is no such thing as a collective or a “greater good”
"What agent is that? Where is the agency?" Who's asking?
_"Who's asking?"_
You know... humanity is held back because of rhetoric like this (in my opinion). Is it wrong to ask/talk about something that most other people couldn't bother pondering about?
Making a "who asked" statement is typically a conversation-shutting tactic, why are you trying to do that here?
@@Gelatinocyte2 "Who's asking" as in who is the agent asking this particular question?
I have found taking a moment to ponder what the other person actually means can be helpful.
Professor Noble will get your attention He’s fantastic
@@Gelatinocyte2it's a spiritual question, a tool you can use to explore consciousness :) the sense of your own subjectivity
@@Ippogrifus yeah, I guess that's my problem with it, then...?
What they are trying to describe is explained by the structural theory of evolution in "How Space and Motion Determine Biological Form"
We are individuals on the level of our personal centre of consciousness.
Indeed. Nature spend millions of years to create a self regulating whole in balance, of wheels within wheels, of millions of relationships. And we go selfish gene, because capitalism won. Our ideologies blind us to reality. And only now we start seeing the relationship, with still not a clue how deep they go.
CORRECT, WORD-FOR-WORD, WE ARE ONE, HUMANITY, LIFE THE REALITIES ARE ALL CONNECTED, ONE-LOVE, GOD. ❤❤❤
@@LevGrandSorcerer wonderful.
Selfish gene is not only the most modern and encopassing idea, but it also explains with even more detail everything that precedes it. It has nothing to do with capitalism, it for now is the best lens to see all nature and relationships that exist (and the ideia of everything being connected in biology is way older than even darwin's theory, we have seen that for a long time, as said in the video)
@@lucasfc4587 Just wonder how many aspect of life aren't selfish at all. They collaborate, die for the body, their kind, their queen. Just read up how trees help feed each other, even those cut down, who'll never grow again. The US paradigm of number 1 before everything else blinds people to other realities. Sorry. It hurts the planet.
@@KootFloris Oh, sorry. I thought you were arguing against its existence. So, I’ll explain shortly: the “selfish” in selfish gene is not about how “selfishness” occurs it is just the catchy name given by the author of the book with the same name. The main ideia is that genes are the smallest unit of evolution, not individuals. I can see where the confusion begins, but it is way more than meets the eye! There is quite a bit of information about the selfish gene online and I encourage you to search for it, it’s quite interesting
These multiple beings constitute an individual, from the latin word individuus, which means "can't be divide". Every single cell of an individual can't live by itself, can't be separated from the whole...
The agency is that the plant that remains is a foothold for other marvelous things to latch on to reality
The confusion surrounding identity (especially human identity) is understandable…
…it’s like trying to understand a human brain, an individual’s human brain, as a generic object that can be studied, known & that individual information applied without ‘surprises’ to any other brain in the universe.
“Yes, we are all individuals”
I wonder why is survival so important. What are we Striving to survive for. Why do we all want to carry our genes on into the future .. it's like there is maybe a moment in time that will really matter and so perhaps we all want our matter within that time ❤️
Also I guess it has something to do with flow, forward motion of the cycles .. in some respects it just is; 'to be,' we must move and to move it has to be within a cycle because that is how existence works. Existence is what it is all for otherwise there would be nothing .. but also 'nothing' isn't even possible ... The spiral of cycles ❤
Truth. Separate self individuality is a convenient fiction. We only exist as members of an inseparable, biological collective.
Speaking of group survival to ensure replication, individual pollen collecting bees who come back to hive entrance intoxicated from ingesting tree resin are killed instantly so as not to infect/ influence other bees demonstrates group survival tactics
We prove that we are individuals by not living in a state of total hive-mind. Our biology may all be relatively the same but our environments are not. And what of genetic and congenital abnormalities? Are they not included as part of the diversity that makes up all species of living things?
Indian,eastern philosophy and spirituality discovered that some 8000 years ago.
@@maha-madpedo-gayphukumber1533 Chakras have been debunked.
Check out the IFS theory in psychology (Internal Family Systems). Another interesting angle to the idea that we are legion ;).
The ability to form a symbiotic relationship with other species (until conditions change - example corrals) is still the result of evolution by natural selection of an individual organism. Those individuals are doing better than their distant cousins who were unable to form symbiotic relationships and probably died out.
Real or delusion , the sense of individuality is essential for functioning effectively. Not being real does not mean it cannot have real effects
The term ecosystem comes to mind.
Everything was going great esp the guy from the 2nd to the right. That species was amazing. But at 5:20 we of c ourselves get lost in gender. Name successful common instances of complex organisms that have power gender?
Individual implies the personality or soul aspects. Unless this part of the brain can ever be calculated and replicated mathematically, if there even is the mathematical solution, which don't think there is, we are individuals. However we are merely points of attention in the universe observing itself. We may all share the same types of building.blocks.but configuration and mix can be quite different. There are many food items that use the same ingredients, flour, egg and sugar.but the end products aren't the same.
This is an interesting conversation. Two remarks, though:
1) The only person of color in the group isn't credited
2) When she raises one of the most important questions, about "Biology Vocabulary" she is immediately (and incredibly) shut down by Frances. I doubt she'd have done the same with Ludwig Wittgenstein, who would probably raise the same concern. What a shame
unfortunately your website player is worse than YT. It randomly stops, cannot buffer enough and there is doubletap 10s jump function missing. so it is a pitty you dont post it here all...
All living entities are inter-connected. Human beings are the only species that think otherwise 🤔
What an individual is is not a biological question but a philosophical one.
@@JhonJairoBernal-i3j science and philosophy have always been intertwined. One needs to think, sometimes outside the box, in order to be a good scientist
Are there autonomous individuals? As long as there is freedom…it is possible. I think this may be where this discussion is really going.
And since human’s have mostly acquiesced to the king/slave model, individual’s seem more willing to be ‘collective personalities ’
than ‘free individual’s’. That may be a biological/evolutionary thing. However, I live in the U.S., I am wired to individual freedom. One atom in a
system of 300 million atoms, the atoms, learn to be autonomous sometimes, but can come together and work as a collective other times….like a war. And it worked pretty well… until the parasites moved in and multiplied. So the system may not last, and will go back to the ‘collective’ slave/king model….. sort of like a giant bee hive. 🐝🐝
I feel extremely fortunate to have landed in the U.S. while it was in its stage of individual atoms in a closed economic capitalist, free system… before the parasites invaded and poisoned the system.😊. That system will never happen again.❤
i heart frances ashcroft
I think Dawkins has tackled altruism elegantly. And I think he didn't concentrate on individuals, but the unit was a gene or chunks of genes.
Right? These three sound stoned af.
Genes differ per individual.
Individuals want to propagate their own genes.
They don’t want to propagate the concept of the gene or other people’s genes.
Hence the selfish gene.
Dawkins approach to altruism is fundamentally flawed.
Self sacrifice makes no sense in Dawkins model.
Is that why you see many entities on dmt? They just different you in your brain
Simply don’t find it hard to see humans, and other animals, as transport media for bacteria. Whatever we think of ourselves, will never be more than a point of view, one if many.
Oh, that explains that periods of rapid widespread evolution , I think!
I was speculating this theme w/ someone. Perhaps we are multidimensional beings, existing in many places, in many times, past, present and future all depending on our capacity, or what region of the world you're from. Either way we all react, respond and reflect the world around us, illusion or not. Say we take away all the social, political or tribal brainwashing, what are we then ?
You can be part of life and still be an Indivdual. Yes we can share properties but we are still individuals.
You are living in a body in this universe, and each cell inside your body is a whole city of living components inside the universe that is you. A liver cell may not be aware of the existence of a pancreatic cell, yet both work synergistically for your benefit. You are the god of all that lives within you, and you live within the god that is our universe.
If there is no individual, who's asking all these questions and pointing all of these ideas?
@@rigaleb The I or The ego which is the localized conciousness of the greater cosmic conciousness which is God or to better say an aspect of it because he is dimensionless. In this sense all is one because God is within you. Just look within yourself. Seek and you shall find.
@@jalefguerrero7696 Well I know that, I was just pointing it out to the speaker.
that is: we won't perish as existent beings
So why do we each have a unique fingerprint ? And why do zebras all have unique stripes ? We are individual.
I think of a cell not as an individual unit, but as a cooperation of multiple genes; IMO, there's a selfish _group_ of genes, not selfish individual gene.
I am legion.
What about a single cell. Isn't that an individual ?
We are not doing a very good job of it by the chaos of the world at the moment.
Do you think that this panel would shatter into dust if they found out the planet is actually alive and conscience as well?
I am everyone & no one.
Everything with beginning and an end But no thing nothing with neither begining nor end
Biologically.. we’re forced to live the scariest life and to survive or suffer
@CRUISEWITHSPIRIT Verily so indeed! Ontologically, however;
- and Im certain you know this already - "we're all livin on a yellow submarine' , goin gently down the stream, merily x4 , life is but a dream"
Just smile and watch the whole wide world smile right back
Did I miss testing that proved humans and neanderthals share DNA? I haven't studied it a lot in recent years, but I recall in college doing a Biology paper and citing a "Nature" article saying otherwise.
Your entanglement structure is your individual self
Surely the perciever is " bio- logical"? Amongst other " things" perhaps?
We are all Biological Robots, 010 manifestation of human's realistic illusions.
Another example will be conjoin twins. Are they an individual?
I am a flock of a trillion cells some of which build and share a representation of how well the flock is doing at surviving and reproducing. As a single thing I am therefore just that representation and the resultant partially coherent behaviour of the flock of cells. Death is the end of representation and coherence.
I is the whole body, it is the body that thinks. The body is the entity there is no entity inside the body. There is no individual as you can't separate ýourself from the environment which keeps you alive. You are the nerve end of the universe looking back at itself. Basicly we are all the same but different.
Must read ‘Finding Shiva- A scientific exploration of the formless God’ if you enjoyed this discussion.
Life uh, finds a way - Jeff Goldblum
🎵🎶 Like the bacteria sticks to the wall,
🎵🎶 Like the flora clings to the bowel,
🎵🎶 Like you'll never get rid of your shadow,
🎶🎵 Human, your gas will always smell foul!
It could simply be both are true
"They" gets a new meaning....now we all are they...us...we...😏
*NICE TO KNOW THAT MARGRET THATCHER WAS ENTIRELY **_WRONG...!_*
@@piccalillipit9211 yet we are all a little bit Thatcher in essence!
@@elfyinc You might be, but I assure you this is NOT a universal human trait.
OK, y'all figured a little bit...😳😂😳🤣✔️
Nature developed sexuality male/female for subtle communication. A form of communication we are not aware of.
😂 communication?
Not all of nature uses sexual reproduction, that actually came later after the clade of Opisthokonta. And sexual reproduction shuffles the genetic deck which increases weeding out of detrimental mutations to ensure it doesn't happen to the entire species like in microbes that create clones of themselves.
😂 communication?
Not all of nature uses sexual reproduction, that actually came later after the clade of Opisthokonta. And sexual reproduction shuffles the genetic deck which increases weeding out of detrimental mutations to ensure it doesn't happen to the entire species like in microbes that create clones of themselves.
😂 I like systems biology by symbiosis and being composed of living beings does not mean that the individual, the system itself does not exist. And noone has ever asserted that individuals evolve, populations evolve.
Gonna be funny in a few years when they discover all the extraterrestrial DNA we have, along with the 24th quantum chromosome
"in a few years" huh ? Since it'll be "quantum", why only one more pair, how about 100 more pair ?
The difference between the clip of the experts we just watched and your comment is they have studied a thing called 'evidence'... You have merely made up some stuff called 'nonsense'... :)
@@readynowforever3676 I've had a pet theory for a few decades that we(species on earth) have the equivalent of a multi-planetary corporation's trade mark in our DNA, if only we knew how to read it 😉
I’m certain that this is not worthy of comment
We are all cells in a cosmic body. The suns are part of the Galaxy.. which is alive. We are part of the living Galaxy also.
Evolution has never been about the individual. That’s a totally false claim. Evolution only and always has occurred at the population level. The fact that humans are colonial organisms, akin to a coral reef, does nothing to upset the modern synthesis as Denis Noble constantly bemoans.
Right?
I think systems biology is interesting and Noble points out interesting things but sometimes I think some of his assertions may be absurd.
Right?
I think systems biology is interesting and Noble points out interesting things but sometimes I think some of his assertions may be absurd.
@@whatabouttheearth I find it telling that he’s NEVER mentioned by other evolutionary biologists as an inspiration, or listed as a credible source from which to learn solid science. He just seems like a cranky old contrarian who throws darts in the hope of hitting a bullseye some day… but the board is behind him.🤭
Biološki gledano imamo vezu sa svim živim bićima na Zemlji.
Gledano kroz oči fizike imamo vezu samo sa ...
... cijelim Univerzumom.
It's both/and not either/or
This is trivial of course, and not worth a drawn-out discussion.
Yes, but the world is still blind to this triviality.
Individual is just an Illusion
Yes , lets just disregard 98 percent of ths sceintific evidence discounting all of these speculative transitions.
Science is finally catching up to spirituality ❤
If these people are the world thinkers it’s sad..
Natural immunity makes sense, in cases of natural causes
This panel seems like a sub-species that Jim Hensen create called Muppets.
Philosophically neither.
Alfred is letting too much information come to light. This is… unwise.
Individualism has been cultivated mainly in western societies. The idea of free will for the assumed individual is the cherry on top of this fake cake which we love to regurgitate over and over again.
Individualism can be called the most destructive doctrine man has ever been confronted with.