loving the comments on this video, even the ones that disagree with the two points i made. i would love to reply to every comment, but i would end up saying the same thing over and over again so I'll just put it here: 1. regarding Jeff returning to law, and his character arc: a lot of people saying that jeff returning to law would have suggested he was regressing and not evolving as a character. I understand this, that's why i said it doesn't have to be law specifically (5:34) just as long as it's something he enjoys/is good at. There's an episode where, for a brief moment, we see jeff enjoying teaching his class how to win an argument against Annie. I love that moment, but not long after that he goes back to hating it. Literally the first thing jeff says to the dean after accepting the job is "I wanna kill myself". When season 6 ends we really dont have any reason to believe that he's changed his mind about what he does. If we had seen jeff begin to enjoy teaching his class that would have been a great ending for him. 2. regarding jeff and annie being together: a lot of people saying that it would have been too conventional, and that the ending was supposed to be bittersweet and unconventional (as community usually is).In my opinion, the conventional ending would have been if jeff and britta and ended up together because that's the relationship that basically kicked off the show. Similar to Ross and Rachel ending together (Friends), Ted and Robin ending together (How I Met Your Mother) and so on. Jeff and annie's relationship is super unorthodox and unconventional for sitcoms, and they spent six seasons building it up perfectly especially in the season 5 finale where jeff opens up the secret door by using his strong feelings for annie (boy, that sounds weird out of context). Like i said, i don't think characters have to end up with something in order for the ending to be a good one (7:02) but I don't see any reason why we couldn't have gotten a time skip into the future which showed Jeff and Annie finally in the right places in their lives to give their relationship a lot. again, i love the comments this video has been getting and it's been making me think harder about community than i ever thought i would haha. thanks for watching everyone!!
They mention in S5 that the reason Jeff fails as a lawyer again is because he now refuses to defend people that are clearly guilty. In earlier seasons he’s called a ‘litter bug’ for how much ‘trash he puts back on the street’. When he returns to law, having gained a moral compass, he decides to be an ethical lawyer and fails horrendously. This is why he can only become a teacher, because his knowledge of law can’t be used anywhere else.
get out of my brain. if they would have followed up the moment in season 5 (where he admits maybe he likes teaching) with actual story development showing him enjoying it and trying at it I can accept that. But reverting him in s6 back to the lazy unmotivated slacker who now has a drinking problem is making him almost as bad off as in s1 pilot and destroys 4 1/2 years of character development. And everything in the six seasons was heading towards at least having Jeff and Annie exploring if they could work as a couple (spoiler alert it would 100% work and they are great together). Dan copping out and not being willing to actually write an episode or 2 in the final season will never not piss me off.
The ending for Jeff and Annie isn't as bad as you think. For one thing, Jeff finally admits he wants Annie. It just so happens that Annie is going away and doesn't want to start things off long distance. She does, however, mention that the future isn't set in stone. Meaning it's still possible with the series' running gag #sixseasonsandamovie because the fan base is growing with new Netflix audiences. All that said, you might get the ending you wanted between the two, just a little later than you wanted.
@@danielward845 so I tend to believe the ending with Jeff and Annie was all positive. My complaint is Dan waited until the last scenes of the last episode to do it. After the s5 finale I wanted Jeff to admit that early so we could actually get a season where they where together in episodes having some fun again. I think there wasn't enough focus on the last four study group members (Jeff, Annie, Britta, Abed) in s6 and I wanted some good episodes focused on them. A good Jeff/Abed episode...one with Annie and Britta doing stuff together and 2 or 3 with Jeff and Annie together. I liked Frankie and Elroy, but I didn't care about them as much as I did the main 4 and in what ended up being the final season I think to much time was wasted on them and Chang and the Dean at the expense of the study group.
I don’t think you understand the deeper ethical story of community. Jeff was a narcissistic lawyer exploiting the legal system for profit💰Corruption. Now Jeff is at Greendale, a place that gives damaged flawed people a chance. Jeff & Greendale are both imperfect 💕 working on themselves. S5’s finale reveals that Jeff feels love/compassion stronger than any other character now
I didn't necessarily hate Jeff being a teacher, I hated that he didn't learn to enjoy it and take it seriously. There is a scene where he goes off the book and starts actually teaches his way of practicing law and that made me happy. But the next episode he goes back to not caring.
i thought about mentioning that in this video, but because he goes back to not caring, then i figured it wasn't worth it. I would like him being a teacher if he at least developed a passion for it like he did for a split second in that episode where he teaches his class how to win an argument with annie haha
I believe that was done more as a decoy to a possible film, if/when the community film hits our screens it is safe to assume there will be a time jump(just like in life) and I believe Jeff will be a moderately passionate/caring teacher, everyone left him, it's just him and the dean. That's kinda how I see it starting anyway.
I think they should have given Britta a better ending. She is quite selfish and has obvious self-esteem issues but she is still a deeply passionate person who looks out for her friends and tries to do or say the right thing even if it means being "The Worst". Plus, for all her lack of theoretical knowledge about psychology she still proves to be insightful and perceptive about her friends' issues, especially Jeff, so it would not have been that unusual to have her end up as a licensed professional in psychiatry or at least some professions where she gets to help people. Having her stagnate and regress was unsatisfying considering her potential, even though she is depicted as quite ditzy she is still a compassionate, observant and emotionally intelligent person who was set up, at least initially, to be able to match Jeff.
I think Britta's growth was more at the start of season six, acknowledging her parents after years of running away. It's a shame she didn't finish her psych degree by the time the show ended, but it alluded to her eventually doing this. I just watched the last episode of season 6 and then went back and watched season 1 and the difference in her character is insane. The way she lets people into her heart now is really nice to see. She was quite cynical and hard initially.
Jeff and Annie make for good drama, but I think Annie's naivete is doing most of the heavy lifting in their mutual attraction. The 20 year age difference is a big deal and Annie is still growing as a person and discovering herself well into the show. By the time she learns who she is, she won't be the abiding girl trying to impress Jeff or looking up to him. She probably wouldn't want him as anything more than a friend she shares history with. Abed, though? WIth their shared wild imaginations, creativity, sensitivity, gentleness, and similar growth paths, they're a uniquely well-suited pair for a happily ever after. Not to mention they find each other incredibly hot when they roleplay and they loved roleplaying. I also would have considered Troy but he never really had the chance to grow out of his slight narcissism the way Abed did. But if Troy were still on the show, I'd throw in Annie and Troy as partners who have grown equally as much since high school when he ignored her and was just an idealized figure to her and are now a matching pair of sexy, good-hearted geeks with childlike hearts. As for Jeff? This brings me to the Britta situation. Their conflict originally arose from their own mutual cynicism and how they were really just two sides of the same coin and hated seeing themselves in each other. If that self-absorption was processed into confidence and they grew to like the versions of themselves mirrored in each other it would be an ironic bookend to their relationship. No butterflies and sappy music, just two grownups ready to be grownups together. Still a bittersweet ending, but one about growing up and having an open mind.
@@MrBazBake While I agree with you points, I'm not entirely sure what your comment has to do with mine the than the last paragraph. I wasn't talking about romantic pairings, I was just talking about how when the show ended Britta didn't really get a proper wrap-up, she was just... there while everyone else got a proper send off.
I feel like Britta’s story in general is completely set aside in the last seasons. She becomes more of the same and ends at the same place she was at almost the entire time. She deserved better!
I sorta disagree. Britta is NOT brilliant, but she is GOOD at bartending, and probably could make a lot more tending bar than working as a psychologist. Her background at community college could still be used to be very helpful to people, and give her a strong business sense. And if she ever does open her own bar, her experience and her ties to the activist community could serve her very well, since local politics are so important to running a successful business.
The episode was great but the finale was awful. Them all pitching season 7 was pretty entertaining. It's just the problem is that there wasn't a fulfilling ending
Idc what the plot of the movie is, but it better start with a soft ocean breeze and then the Childish Tycoon sails across the screen and Troy is humming the tune that played over and over again in season 3, forgot the name of it.
Honestly I think Troy finishing his trip around the world and making an attempt to reconnect with the study group is a perfect plot hook for the movie. Maybe it could take place at a class reunion at Greendale, and I especially want Troy to meet all the additional season 6 characters (even if they get sidelined to focus on the season 5 cast) because they’re honestly great
Yeah, Hickey and Elroy and Frankie should def come back Have Troy come back for the reunion, maybe some students start a new paintball war, a couple new students, including the grandson of Leonard possibly
@@igormachado2194 bruh I forgot 😭 it’s been 2 years since I rewatched, I used to watch it over and over again but naturally I’ve seen 5 and 6 the least
The thing is… what kind of plot could they do with a movie? That is actually fun to watch… Yea they could make “ONE FINALE PAINTBAL” but would that be fun to watch? Since it already was perfected!
Is it weird that season 3 community feels like the real ending? Jeff is finally happy at Greendale, Britta has a goal in life, Pierce isn't that racist anymore and confronted his father etc
@@never.nothing I'd love to see Donald and Yvette return, but I don't know about Pierce. Chevy Chase is a despicable human being, and I'd rather we don't give him more work.
i think annie specifically not ending up with jeff was such an important final note of character development for her. she went from being an uptight, insecure, boy-obsessed school girl who’s uncomfortable expressing her sexuality to a more mature woman. you would never catch annie saying “eh i’m 20, i’ll forget the kiss in a week” in S1. it’s such an amazing moment because it still shows that she cares a lot about jeff but she’s no longer in love with the “idea of being loved” (as she says to abed in the dreamatorium episode). if annie and jeff ended up together in the end, i personally would’ve felt that it was too forced and it wouldn’t have made sense in tandem to annie’s character development.
While I agree, I don't think it would be forced because you could clearly see the relationship. The issue is whether the relationship was non-familial paternal/big brother or actually romantic.
It also has the problem of the writers somehow simotamiously hinting at a potential relationship to fans in the final seasons, and far before in previous seasons, but then largely ignoring it entirely until the end when it just kind of appears again. IF the writers actually followed through, instead of just making fan service jokes, I think it could've worked. But with how kind of out of nowhere the final episode was with everything, with how little anything led up to it in the previous episodes, it would've been pretty weird even for shippers of the couple.
THANK YOU. Yes! It would've undercut her journey of maturation. And honestly the same could be said for Jeff, someone whose identity was bound to sleeping with younger women. Jeff WAS attracted to Annie, but knew it was wrong and learned to respect her as a friend
I think that you have a great point here. Annie is her own person and the ending really shines for Annie specifically. She is probably the most likeable person on the show (I chose person not character because Abed is the best character but Annie is the best person). She works hard, is deeply caring, kind, and diligent. It would have been an absolute waste for her to not find success and most of all a sense of self worth! I think the criticism of no Jeff and Annie closure is still legit one though. Hear me out, my vision for the ending with these two is a role reversal. At the beginning of S1 Annie is in love with Troy then develops feelings for Jeff. She is the classic needy young girl with her head in the clouds. Her view of herself is widely dependent on other people. Over the course of the show she really matures and becomes her own person developing a backbone and some self esteem. Meanwhile Jeff is her opposite, a cynical selfish douche who is only in it to get into Brittas pants. Over the show he develops a heart and compassion. He even starts to be less selfish. I think there is an alternate world where there is a major S6 role reversal. Annie had matured and grown and doesnt need validation; Jeff has realized the flaws of his selfishness. Instead of Annie pining for Jeff you can have Jeff realize that she was everything to him. It would be dumb to undercut Annie's growth but could be the ultimate cherry on top of both character's development. Maybe it ends with a bit of personal sacrifice on the part of Jeff to realize his transformation away from hyper selfishness juxtaposed with Annie having the personal sense of worth to "stick to her guns". If Jeff loves her so much she knows she will be fine without him he can be the one to be selfless while she maintains her self worth. I like the idea of Annie and Jeff professing their feelings but Annie's other considerations are just more important to her. She has to be a little selfish and focus on her self. Jeff realizes that he cant have his cake and eat it too... He has something tying him to Colorado that is personally valuable to him but gives that up for the sake of being with the person that he loves the most. Annie grows a backbone Jeff grows a heart
I’ve always been pro Jeff and Annie but you rlly put in in a way where I’m glad they didn’t end up together. I completely agree with that, I never looked at it that way.
I really think the Jeff Arc that would make the most sense is to have him doing extremely well as a lawyer instead of failing. He then finds out Greendale is being sued for worthless degrees (by city college represented by his old firm). Jeff defends Greendale as their main lawyer because he has to wins or his degree is no longer valid and would have to start school over again
This. It could be a classic "everyone looks at Jeff to make him do a thing" type of scenario, and when he weighs the outcomes he does what the group wants him to do
Jeff actually explains why he was failing as a lawyer before season 5, and it was bc he started defending poor innocent people, in cases where he had to use actual law (which he didn't know), and not just sophism, like before he went to Greendale, when he defended rich people who were clearly guilty of their charges
The introduction of Frankie into the final season, trying to make Greendale “normal” and basically un-Greendale, made me feel like the main characters were becoming less important, and their sitcom lives were coming to an end. It encapsulates a whole depressing tone that I think was one of the most interesting parts of the show, and I think really suits the meta theming of the show as well. Jeff not having a happy ending, and him realizing that life goes on and he can’t hold on to the ethereal purgatory of Greendale is so important in my opinion.
i agree, that's why i think it would have been great to see jeff cut his ties with greendale, by quitting his teaching job. Jeff's ending makes me feel like his growth as a person is stunted by greendale. His friends move on, but he can't (or won't). but, maybe that's the point. haha thanks for the comment!
the depressing tone part is so accurate, I lost so much enjoyment from watching the final seasons, it really just didn't feel like the same show and I just ended up forcing myself to finish it but then stopped anyway right before the actual final episode.
The last episode of Community hit me hard because I very much relate to Jeff's situation and difficulty in letting go and moving on. Because I've had the exact same thing happen to me. 75% of my closest friends have already moved out of my country (it's a small country so it's always easy to meet) and the way I saw the study group was the way I saw my circle of friends. They might not know each other but that's how I saw it. His difficulty and denial of letting go of his friends and moving on hit hard for me. Especially the scene at the end with Annie where he just looms over the empty study group table with the lights off, it speaks volumes.
I know someone already came up with the perfect beginning to the movie In the comments, but I think the perfect "ending" to the movie personally would be Troy and Abed starting an actual morning TV show with all the money Troy inherited from Peirce lol.
Honestly when you admitted that you couldn’t have written seasons 5 and 6 any better at the time was really appreciated. Almost every TH-camr that does this type of video doesn’t admit that writing anything is fucking hard. I’m in the middle of my own book and college courses in my major and it is very hard to write a new world, story, and characters.
hey, that's pretty awesome that youre writing a book!! because I've thought about writing a screenplay/book from time to time, and always end up realizing that writing a coherent, satisfying story is VERY hard to do haha
never nothing it’s tough but really fun. I know my strengths as a storyteller and writer and I know my weaknesses so my process has been very two steps forward one step back.
never nothing I have a beginning and end planned out for the story and character arcs. My motto for making characters too is “Real people don’t make sense” so when I make a character I take a flaw and mix it with a personality or quirk that you don’t often see together in a show. But it’s something you may come across in real life. It makes for fun characters that present a challenge to write and it often ends with them being inconsistent like people often tend to be
@@zerotohero1483 I agree and came here to say the same thing. i have seen like 1% of fanfic writers in a genre do a better job. so its not easy to create a better version. I tried for years to write my own fantasy novel and kept stalling. i found i would do the Rowling flaw and plan were i wanted characters to go and force them to that result. like your saying keep characters real and flawed. have them react to situations you create. i have been having a way easier go because i shifted how i write this year.
Kyle Ellis the best way I’ve found to deal with the Rowling flaw is really look at the characters and think “okay they have this problem and I want to do a Positive character arc with them. Let’s see how they react in the story and scenarios.” Instead of planning where they will be at the end have the plan of what type of character arc you want to do with them and then write with that in mind. This way you won’t pigeon hold yourself too much and you can still make an interesting character. The only thing I really plan out is what the start and ending of my book is and work in those criteria.
I think Jeff teaching law is a decent ending for him, but it needs more set up. We need to see him making that decision. Show him as a successful lawyer again, but finding it hollow and unfulfilling. He hears about the lawsuit against Greendale and goes back to defend them, to try and preserve the futures of his friends so they don't have to go through what he did after his degree was invalidated. As head of legal defense, and the only lawyer in the SGC, he's forced to teach the other members about law, courtroom strategy and how to build a defense. He finds himself enjoying teaching them and rediscivers his passion for the subject, and for saving Greendale. Even if he doesn't care about Greendale as a school, he cares about his friends and their futures. And then at the end when everyone goes their separate ways, have him reveal that he's been applying for teaching positions at law schools, and has some interviews coming up.
I think Jeff wasn’t able to be a good lawyer anymore because he grew as a person and started to feel compassion which is what apparently destroys a good lawyer.
He tried to defend the little man (no money), and I think just couldn't get himself on his feet. I don't think it's that farfetched that he didn't do well on his own.
It doesn’t destroy a good lawyer, it destroys the kind of lawyer Jeff used to be and still longed to be. That killer drive of winning at all costs had given way to a different kind of good lawyer. It’s not that he’s be ineffective in certain cases, but there just aren’t as many of those to build a practice around.
He wasn't able to be a good lawyer cause money honestly... jeff was already amazing, kinda like a mix of harvey and mike from suits tbh, there's no reason to fail as a lawyer when u know it u know it, as per all the things in life, the walk is hard, but the results are there forever after. We do however have hope, with the major success of rick and morty, recent podcasts and stuff with the whole crew together, and the success of the show in netflix aswell, things for sure look bright for a new season or the damn movie, i would've said it was this year to be recorded, but our world kinda fell apart, hopefully that doesn't shut down the community door forever.
Re: Jeff moving to DC: that would have been a great final step for him as a character. He spent the whole show with everyone else orbiting around him. He’s the catalyst for the show in 1x01 and 5x01. Him being able to follow someone else out of his comfort zone for their benefit would be a fantastic character development.
I KNOW! I mean he didn't even want to be a professor and it was clear that he was never happy there. He also realized that he loved Annie and wanted to feel younger, so why would he not go with Annie and see what was out there? I think it would be a perfect development for him to move on from Greendale and actually give his life an order.
That's true. There is always a lingering feeling that Jeff has always been a big fish and little pond as he mentioned when Troy left that he is never even been outside Colorado. Moving to DC would definitely test his ego and confidence and make it so he would really have to care about law and not have the comfort of the study group to cushion his ego
Jeff being a teacher at Greendale always irked me for some reason, but I could never put my finger on why. Him just accepting that he would stay there forever honestly didn't sit right, after he spent the past four seasons doing his best to get out. Jeff and Annie may not be my favorite couple (I'm honestly quite curious as to how Troy and Britta's relationship would have panned out under Dan Harmon's writing instead of what we got which was boring) but I recognize that they do balance each other out rather well. And I would have liked for Jeff and Annie's reunion to be the final scene. Rather than that really weird kind of depressing board game thing? I still don't understand what that was all about to be honest. But anyway, this was kind of a long way for me to say, great video!
thank you! and yes i agree. literally the first thing he says after accepting the job is "I wanna kill myself" and then we are hardly given any reasons to believe he's changed his mind after that.
The last scene is Dan Harmon (literally Harmon narrating) lamenting all the mistakes he made in the show, and all his regrets of his actions and mistreatment of others outside of the show. Hoping that all the people he loves are still watching (still care about him).
I dont know once he dated slater i saw him ending up as a teacher. especially with the student/teacher relationship form i saw it as set up for annie later. I believe Dean pelton needs to go to school board and jeff takes over as dean. yeah i will say britta/troy was as big a letdown with how season 4 handled it.
@@kyleellis9177 thats a new foreshadowing i hadn't thought of for Jeff and there's always a chance they could do right by the Troy and Britta pairing in the movie. Considering the importance of Brittas involvement with Troy's exit and how their dynamic was shown throughout it
One of the main reasons that I liked Annie and Jeff not getting together was because of the age difference between them. Had they initially had the characters closer in age, it would have been fine. But the fact that there's an age difference, and with how creepily the show plays with this age difference through jokes and constantly sexualizing Annie (sometimes specifically after stating that she's very very young compared to everyone else), I think it's better that they stay apart, as it'd be less creepy overall, even if it would be a good fir for their characters.
The age difference is irrelevant. They are both adults. There is not a single good reason against a relationships where the man is much older than his wife.
@@kingofmontechristo Maybe it would be irrelevant, if the show didn't say itself multiple times that the age difference was creepy, and then they went through with it anyways.
Me too.When we're talking about a series like Community, you can't just get rid of a character that easily.His role might have not have been huge, but he was part of the team and it alaways felt like something was missing.
I like the ending cuz it is not typical. I like the concept of the pitching and also how jeff is the one who was the saddest when the group is breaking considering he was the one who didn’t want t a study group in the first place at season 1 ep 1. The contrast really shows us that jeff deep down cares the most about the group. ALSO since they got shirley to play the pitch part why not have a scene where they meet each other for the last time
In my opinion, Dan Harmon intentionally did not capitalise on the romantic relationship among the study group. For example, as the romantic relationship between Britta and Troy grew in S3, it was only brought up subtly. By doing so, it avoids viewers paying the attention only to shipping them, but also the growth of every single member in the study group. I really think Jeff and Annie share a tremendous romantic tension but capitalising on it will make Community just another generic comedy show.
But the reasons Dan chose not to have Jeff and Annie get together had nothing to do with the characters or story. It was external factors including him not wanting critics to take shots at him personally for making them a couple. Jeff and Annie was the proper ending for the show.
@@snakeeyes7327 yeah dan has a i cant do it this way because they expect it. so even if something worked and we expected it based on build up he would subvert to subvert
@@kyleellis9177 that wasn't his issue in this case. Because of his inappropriate behavior in the writers room with Megan critics where attacking the Jeff/Annie story line claiming it was Dan living out his fantasy through the characters. So he didn't finish their natural arc of that story the way he should have so he didn't have to deal with having to get criticized for his behavior again. Also why he waited until the last scenes of the last episode to wrap it up.
It’s so crazy, these were my exact thoughts. At the end of the show I was so sad about Jeff and Annie. I know people will disagree, but I think my ending is that Jeff and Annie move to dc with Jeff becoming a federal prosecutor (practicing law) and also Brittany needs an ending.
I've got issues with Series 5 and 6, but I'd say that last episode was as close to perfection as Community could have gotten given the circumstances - plus we're still waiting for the real ending in a movie.
I don't really agree that it was important for Annie and Jeff to get together. I generally hate it when shows mush characters together like dolls forcing them to kiss, so I thought that them not getting together was a nice change of pace. Jeff and Annie had already touched each others' lives in a meaningful way so anything else would've been unnecessary/overkill imo
Agreed. There was always a taboo/ick factor to their will they/won't they. And the way they left it was just perfect. Accepting their love for each other but still heading their separate ways.
I would agree with you, if in the finale they didn't basically acknowledge their love for each other. If it would've been just the whole thing about how they're at different points in their lives, and maybe a hug, that's some decent closure. But it's made clear that Jeff loves her, to the point that he freaks out when he finds out she's leaving. Then they "resolve" that with a kiss? In my opinion, a fully romantic, loving, non sexual kiss doesn't feel like something to conclude a relationship with. Annie even hints at the possibility of a future for them "season 7, who knows? Too many variables" If you look at the finale scene with them as an open-ended relationship with the possibility of something more to come, I think it works and does what it needs to do. But if I were to interpret it as a "goodbye, this will never work but we still love each other" thing, that seems like the opposite of a good execution. Maybe it's just me, but if I loved someone who was at a different point in their life then me, and they loved me too, and we acknowledged our feelings and shared a loving kiss, I would NOT be able to move on after that lol. As a Jeff/Annie shipper, the lack of satisfying closure leaves a hole in my heart until we hopefully get a movie with some resolve :)
what's saddest about Jeff's ending, is he literally just settled. that's why he also just comes off with such a losery vibe- like I feel like at some point in the show, probably after season4, he really just seemed to shed his cool guy act and seems more, pathetic, even if he still is being his normal cool guy Jeff Winger self. Like that's his whole thing, he's too cool for everyone and a community college is not where he belongs, but at some point it seems like a community college is an easy fit and he is just at the same level as everyone else. so its just like instead of being his stubborn, assholeish self and being "too awesome" to fail at becoming a lawyer again, he kind of just, gives up and settles for something he despises
Same for Britta, she's no longer the activist - upcoming therapist she just ends up being a bartender. Annie and Abed are the only ones who actually went up in the world, I guess Troy could count if you his inheritance is going up.
I mean you could make a positive spin on that. For example: in almost every romcom of the 2000s, an over-ambitious, somewhat cold and corrupted lead character returned to his/her hometown, found a love interest who slowly warmed his/her heart, and realized their true self. In the same sense, you could argue that Jeff went from exceedingly ambitious and uncaring, seeing Greendale as a lame place worth disregarding, to abandoning his originally-chosen profession to fight for and protect the place. In that sense, the love story of Community is Jeff and Greendale. It's like Sweet Home Alabama, but Greendale is Alabama, and Jeff is Reese Witherspoon. I personally disagreed with both the points in the video-first, as a law student, I'd strongly discourage anyone from thinking "being manipulative and persuasive means you'd definitely be a good lawyer!" Second, Annie and Jeff were clearly at separate stages in their lives, as noted by the show-in cannon he's 17 years older than her. Moreover, I think Jeff being a successful lawyer and getting the girl would be way too fan-servicey, reminiscent of Glee, when flash-towards showed each character MAXIMALLY personally and professionally fulfilled. ("She won a Tony and has a loving husband who ALSO won a Tony!!! Hooray!!!!"). I agree with some of the comments here that Britta's ending was pretty strange, but Jeff's ending represents his growth.
That's because, by the standards of real life, Jeff was a loser from the first episode. He was an emotionally unavailable tool. And he really didn't change much until the last season, in terms of accepting that he has issues and not trying to prop up that facade. Now he's a sad-chad
Ya'no, with infinite timelines, there's prolly a timeline where Abed did actually develop the ability to hop between timelines for real. They could do a schrodinger's cat scenario where Annie and Jeff are simultaneously in a relationship and not in a relationship and no one knows for sure until the box lid is opened, sort of speak (kinda like the series, but on steroids).
If Annie had been played by an actual 18 year old, a lot of people wouldn’t ever have supported the pairing. Instead, Alison Brie is the same age as Gillian Jacobs
thats a really good reason. i overlook myself. but really im only against them being a couple in seasons 1 to 4. season 5/6 shes 23+ and im fine with it.
Kyle Ellis I prefer the dynamic more in the later seasons too, but I just find it weird in general because they are in different stages in their life and I think it’s just right person, wrong time
@@maisie9705 I agree. honestly i dont see the ending so much as depressing but more as confimation they get together in the movie that in my head takes place 5 years after the finale. knowing annie shes going to go career heavy and lose herself same way jeff did as a lawyer. movie is about her rebuilding her life slowing down and not forcing confessions from criminals so she has highest amount of arrests.
I love that they went with a quite sad ending for Jeff. And Harmon has said that in the last episode Jeff and Annie love each other, but that doesn't mean Annie should give up her young life. Not really a fan from happily ever after endings. Also Dan Harmon wanted season 4 to be a lot outside of Greendale so when they graduate at the end of 4 they could organically make it about the 7 friends instead of about Greendale. Season 5 and anything thereafter would have no Greendale in it. Sadly he got fired and all his plans for season 4 were ruined along with 5 and everything after that. He felt that season 4 felt so off, he needed to ground the series into it's original feeling. Introduce people back to what Community was and he felt that the only way to do that was bringing Greendale back. So yeah, season 4 ruined what could have been. Repilot feels very forced, which it is. But if you just imagine college is 6 years and season 5 and 6 are great. Off-topic. Don't really get that people call season 1, 2 and 3 the golden days. I liked 5 and I loooved 6.
*Correction*, Dan Harmon ruined his chances at giving Community a proper send-off because he sexually harassed one of his employees. His absence in season 4 nicked this show in the ankles, but Dan isn't the real victim here. Dude really brought this shit upon himself.
Exactly. Annies in her early 20's, Jeff is in his 40's. She has her dream job, he doesn't. Him not pursuing a relationship they both want is his way of showing he actually cares more for her well being than his own, which was Jeff's whole character arc the entire series (originally because he wanted to be cold calculating layer type and later because it was just who he had become)
NerdMiGerd EXACTLY. That’s why all of the cynicism in seasons 5 and 6 (that wasn’t present in the early seasons) that’s used to mock season 4 is just in bad taste because if he wanted to make season 4 maybe he shouldn’t have done a bunch of crap to get himself fired
NerdMiGerd He didn’t get fired because of the Megan Ganz stuff. However, he was still very difficult and turned in scripts incredibly late, and because of that NBC fired him. So yes he caused it, but it wasn’t the sexual harassment that did it.
After hearing the cheery, yet also depressing intro by the 88, I always envisioned the show ending with that song. I imagined the characters showing growth at the end of the story, with the viewer being shown how they improved on their flaws because they learned from eachother. They would all get amazing opportunities that would put distance between them. The titel song ends with the lines: "I can't count the reasons I should stay, one by one, they all just fade away" which just sounds perfect to me to combine with a final shot of them having fun at a table with each of them fading away one by one, perhaps with one person being hesitant to move on and trying to stick to greendale, only to finally walk away and move on as the others fade away. The ending is rather bleak but I think it would have a significant impression as most of us can relate to growing together with a group of friends from school and then just slowly drifting apart. It's a sad moment, just like the show ending, but it emphasises how great those times were and how it's okay that they end and that new times are afoot. Having seen your ending, I would've loved for this to be the series ending and then following it up with a movie where a few years have passed and greendale is in danger. The cast comes back together to save greendale and they use their respective talents to bring this about. Annie could use her forensics to find evidence of city college wrongdoing, jeff could represent the legal side, abed could make a documentary about it and so on. they end up saving greendale and decide to stay in contact. Annie and Jeff get together. Fast forward a few years and we can be shown that they did in fact remain in contact.
I’m in the minority of people who think Jeff and Britta should’ve stayed together. They shared things in common and did at times have opposite characteristics. I’ll concede that Jeff and Annie wouldn’t be a bad match either, but the age difference has always bugged me a bit. I just wished they kept the Britta of the first two seasons when she wasn’t an airhead and had a little more depth to her. She’s funny in season 3 & 5, but she turned into more of a punchline.
Imo Jeff and Britta are best served as being life long friends. They bounce off of each other well. But are too much a like that they became combustible when actually together(which I similarly view Troy and Abeds relationship. Though thats about limiting in expressions and development rather than being combustible. As they had difficulty maturing when together). That's why I think if there are pairings its Jeff and Annie and Troy and Britta(finalized and for Troy and Britta given greater depth in the movie). As they are pairings that help each other grow beyond what their comforts are. Jeff grew away from his selfishness toward caring and being accepting of change/life happens. Through Annies involvement in his shallow and reductionist perspective. While Annie grew into a strong willed and assertive person through Jeff pushing her buttons and mentoring her. Troy grew out of his shell with Brittas underlying involvement throughout the first 3 seasons(yes Abed was prominent. But he only helped with one side of who Troy became/is) and even with the faults of season 4 screwing up what should've been. Britta did help him realize that hes not mature enough to be in a committed relationship yet. During their relationship/various interactions that were rather deep. Britta got an understanding for a person, in Troy, who doesn't expound her self hatred. But views the good within her that she has difficulty expressing(he's the only one who calls her _The_ _Best_ and even stated he loves her during his departure. Which leaves things open)
I think the idea of them staying together is REALLY similar to HIMYM ending in which Robin kind of settle downs for Ted. She doesn't actually love him that way, but she just can't find anybody too and feels so lonely. I think that finale hurt Barney/Robin relationship too much because I think that their break-up was too forced, and for Community, I can say that they forced the will they/won't they trope on Jeff/Annie too much. I mean they had a lot of moments accumulating from season 3 and by season 4-5, she was already like 22-23 or so, they could have easily made these two official. Rather, they brushed off a lot of scenes. In season 6, we don't even have any moments between them until the finale, and season 5 literally finishes with Jeff actually seeing that he is in love with her. I think Annie leaving Greendale for the FBI internship was the best development that could have been given to her, but Jeff staying in Greendale is actually a really sad ending because I think that he could have actually leave with Annie and try a relationship with her while he was searching for lawyering jobs.
honestly, I feel as though Jeff's ending is a perfect one for him. letting Annie go is the proof he's changed, it's an entirely unselfish act. he acknowledges he doesn't know what she wants in a relationship, just that she wants to be in one with him. I agree about the moment where he learns to love what he teaches, that should've been a turning point to his character. one where he learns to love teaching and though that become less selfish (interacting with his students as plot points) culminating in him letting Annie. again, it's easy to say in hindsight!
Ah, you had me on the first point and lost me on the second. I agree that in seasons 5/6 the writers just didn't know what to do with Jeff's character. The premise revolved around him getting a degree to go BACK to being a lawyer. There was nothing to suggest his degree would be in education, and him as a teacher just didn't sit right because the whole idea was they were all students. However, I disagree about Jeff and Annie, and before anyone says anything about the age gap, let me speak. Annie acts like Jeff's moral compass because he doesn't have one. And the whole group changes him, not just Annie. I think every member (even Pierce ffs) changed him for the better. Jeff doesn't know how to put the needs of others before his own. He admits to being selfish and manipulative several times, and given his toxic relationship with Britta and failed relationships throughout the show, he doesn't deserve Annie. The one time he gave Annie hope, he ignored her. And I honestly think living with Troy and Abed did more to loosen up Annie than Jeff did. They experience a role reversal -- at the end of s1, Annie releases the recording so the group stays together, and Jeff berates her, but in the end, Annie’s taking off, and it's Jeff who desperately clings onto any last threads of Greendale he can hang onto. I think Jeff does love Annie, and he needs her to stay to figure them out feelings. But that's not her job, and I don't think Annie kisses him out of mutual romance, I think it's more of a goodbye/let go kiss. Like, s6 Annie is not going to stay for his sake. She's ready to start a life after Greendale that focuses on her career. She's not the same Annie who fantasizes about romance, she's got bigger plans that don't include a domestic life. It's clear when she asks "do you have any idea what I want?" Much like Jeff projects his emotional issues, he projects what he wants without consideration for what she wants. He's co-opting her into this fantasy when it’s clear that what she wants isn’t that. She chooses herself, and I think that's really important to the preservation and maturity of her character. Neither Jeff or Annie were ready for a relationship. There is so much more for them (esp Annie) to experience, and they need to be different people. Then again, Community has always sucked at writing romantic relationships. Maybe that was for the best, and maybe they'll know what to do for the movie.
This comment shows why jeff and Annie would not work. I am so glad they did not end up together, because it would be just another Ross/Rachel or Ted/Robin ending, thank you!
I agree with almost everything you said. Annie choosing herself is very important. However, I do think that a relationship between them in the future, after Jeff has learned to let Annie live her life and Annie has gotten some real-world experience, would be completely justified and understandable. They have great chemistry and complement each other very well. I agree that Annie should not feel responsible for being Jeff's moral compass, and that Jeff needs time alone to stop projecting his insecurities and desires onto other people. But Annie doesn't kiss him out of pity or to make him feel better. She truly does feel strongly for Jeff, she's just matured enough to realize that this isn't the right time. I think the writers could've hinted a little more heavily at a future relationship, because this goodbye is the perfect foundation for a much healthier romance in a few years' time, but still kept the ending mostly the same, staying true to the Community style.
@@victorholcberg4122 I can see that, but I feel like if they get together it will be out of fan service and not a testament to their character growth. And I see what you mean about Annie feeling for Jeff. I think she loves him platonically. In the beginning, it was a puppy crush, and as she matured, she realized she wanted a career before romance. And maybe she harbored those feelings still but I think she has the biggest arc from s1 to s6. I also think Frankie played a role in being a healthier mentor figure. I mean, I personally didn't think what Jeff said was a good foundation, and I don't think Annie was reciprocating that sentiment, and I still think Jeff doesn't deserve her. But I agree we need to see how they grow and the s6 ending stayed true to the Community style.
For me, I enjoyed the ending and the fact that Jeff and Annie never got together, because the show makes a good point about letting things go and growing. Annie needed to live her life and at this stage (last episode), I think there's too much life experience between them for their relationship to ever feel satisfying (imo). I liked how Jeff needed to learn how to let things go and accept change and the ever flow of people moving in and out of his life, because that reflects real life, mirrored in Abed's speech in the last episode of how TV ends and we need to let go. Life continues on. I agree though on your point that Jeff's settling as a teacher, which he doesn't seem to get any fulfillment out of, was upsetting. They had that one moment where he was inspired, teaching the class how to argue with Annie, which I thought could be used as a springboard to get him in the groove, but that was a one off event. There was also that episode where he fought with Hickey about teachers' duties to their students, and not seeing them as enemies. It was sad to see that build up didn't go anywhere, even when the inmate attempted to murder Jeff because he wasn't teaching properly. All in all, though, I think Jeff learning to let people go was a satisfying conclusion to a motion that was set arguably, since season 2, through his issues with his dad. He couldn't handle people he love leaving him, whatever the intentions are. I found his transition from "cool guy wanting to get out of here and live a successful lawyer life" to "secretly soft heart wanting to keep everyone he loves close to him" believable. I never questioned his character growth because it just made so much sense to me. I don't even mind the fact that some of the original cast left, because it followed, I think, what the heart of community is - despite being way less grounded than shows like The Office, it reflected life more than other sitcoms through its depiction of the chaotic, ever changing nature of life, the flaws of its characters, growth, and the ongoing work towards our connections with each other. People come and go in our communities. The shape of it shifts as we rearrange ourselves with every gain and loss. Nothing is ever static, just like the tonal shifts in each episode of Community. Given the cards it was dealt with, I think the show gave it as good as it got.
if a movie actually happens we know they're no way Jeff and Annie being together. D4n harmon always play safe. the script will be like they let each other go and move on and remain friends something like that since there are a lot of people opposed the Jeff/Annie arc lately. the finale is good for annie. she grown up mature and it was nice that jeff didnt holding her back. but i cant help to feel sorry for jeff. he sad and drunk all the season 6 since he tried to let her go after he realized he do love her in s5 finale. i really hope they will be end up together in the right time after annie settle with her life
Jeff's story hit me particularly hard because of some of the parallels between our lives. University for me is where I found myself and finally started to feel happy with life. As the four years came close to an end things started to become a little more difficult as friends and acquaintances started to leave earlier for various reasons. When it was finally my time to leave the safety of school. I wanted to think of excuses to stay like do a masters but I knew it wouldn't really be the same since most the people I knew would be gone at that point. It was a difficult transition for me to the real world but I will say that I have overcome that and have settled happily into my next chapter of my life. That's why I liked Jeff's story because he found his happiness at Greendale but it was also a crutch for him and he was scared he couldn't be happy without greendale or if his friends weren't there with him. I did wish that gave Jeff more closure though and have him learn not to depend on the safety net that is Greendale.
I really enjoy the last two seasons, but you make some reeeeally good points, particularly Jeff being a good lawyer/not caring about teaching. How they ended Jeff with the feeling of “Everyone you care about will leave, things will change...but you’ll be ok” always hit me the wrong way. It’s real, but it’s a downer... You have to wonder, if Harmon didn’t leave and then come back, would season 4-6 would have still gone the same route (With or without the cast departures.) Also after rewatching season 5 it always bugged me that the case against Greendale just kinda went away after “Repilot”...
When I first started watching season 5 I thought that the show would go the "Jeff saves Greendale from lawsuit." Kinda bummed out it didn't go that way, but I honestly think what we got wasn't bad. I just kinda wished Troy and Shirley came back to fill in the people who left (except for Pierce because he is dead, but even his weird hologram thing could be a stand-in).
Just throwing this out there, but what if the Dean after seeing how Jeff had failed as a self-practicing lawyer decided to hire him on retainer for the school when it was getting sued, and then the Dean slowly ropes Jeff into becoming their law teacher as he successfully defends the school over and over
I remember dan harmon said that the original plan before he left the show was to slowly start moving the study group out of greendale around s4 so that by the time they got to seasons 5 and 6, the story wouldn't depend on them being students there. I can see how with the way things went, the new creators of s4 just didn't have the same vision, and they didn't set up any of that, so dan was kinda stuck having them at greendale still when he came back for s5 (which I agree doesn't work at all imo). It sucks and I always wonder where this show could have gone and how it would have evolved if dan hadn't left for a season.
Truth!! I appreciated what we got with the last few seasons, even though it wasn’t the best. That’s part of what I’ve always loved about community is it’s the underdog. #sixseasonsandamovie
“If you love something, set it free. If it comes back, it was, and always will be yours. If it never returns, it was never yours to begin with.” #andamovie
Could not disagree more with a lot of things said in this video. 1. The quality dips in season 4. But to say that it never reaches the heights of seasons 1-3 again is objectively untrue. Season 5 is widely rated better than season 1. Also, the best episodes of 5&6 are some of the best in the whole series. Just because there are some episodes that are below average does not mean that those terrific episodes are somehow made worse by their surroundings. 2. To say that it's 'just not right' that the characters return to Greendale often irks me as an argument. Like if we can accept that a college can descend into a campus-wide pillow fight, how come we draw the line of reality at students returning to renew their education? To be put off by the lack of reality in a sitcom that is not grounded in reality is stupid. 3. The Jeff Winger transformation was obviously intentional and the fact that he doesn't have a 'happily ever after' speaks volumes about his character. He puts up the facade of not caring, but at the end of the series we realise that it's actually him who cares the most. A sad ending is not a bad ending, and the fact that Community often goes against classic expectations (in this case a nice happy ending where they all ride off into the sunset together) proves that the finale was the most fitting ending and pulls it off in classic Community style. I have not seen a better finale in a sitcom. 4. In keeping with the above topic, the fact that Annie and Jeff never got together is another thing that toys with our expectations in a good way. Throughout the series we are led to believe that they will end up together in some form but are also given a number of indications that it won't work. Annie needs to go off and live her life, whereas Jeff is at an age where he needs to start settling down. The fact that they seem perfect for each other, but can't be together is like a tragic love story that loses all of its effect if they are forced together at the end of the series.
Counter; a sad ending absolutely IS a bad ending. I'm not watching media to be reminded about how shitty real life can be, nor do I want to invest my time into absorbing six seasons of character development just to watch it all get shit on within the last season.
@@ffxidrgblu counter counter; Yes some people have different tastes and enjoy a show that will make them feel good throughout. I would recommend Friends or something similar that is just laugh out loud, on the surface humour for that. What makes Community great is it isn't afraid to go against the grain and tug on the heart strings every so often. It isn't a show that is the best for its laughter value. It is the best for its clever writing and realistic characters. Also, the character development is definitely not "shit on" in the finale. If anything having a happy ending is what would have 'shit on' the entire development of the series. The arc of each character perfectly followed through to a logical end, without a forced 'happily ever after'.
@@cooperg387 my problem with the ending and Seasons 5 and 6 altogether, and it's reflected in your opinion here, is that contrary to what some people now believe Community was not always this bastion of "stark reality". The show's overall tone in the first three seasons was overall hopeful, and positive. It was when Dan came back for S5, bitter and angry that the tone of the show changed to cynical and negative. I don't expect rainbows and butterflies, but there were several story arcs that were left unresolved or poorly serviced. Jeff remaining stuck in a job he hates, with no direction as a functioning alcoholic is just a bad ending, there's no talking your way around that IMO. Britta was also bungled by the end of S6, wish the video had touched on that too.
@@ffxidrgblu I understand your point. The core of our disagreement likely just lies in the fact that I find the sadness of the characters to be an enjoyable aspect of the show whereas you don't. Often characters can also serve as people to laugh at rather than with (take pierce for example). As far as Harmon coming back and making the show a bit bleaker, I'd have to say that it was more just a decision that was necessary to keep the characters at Greendale for a plausible reason. Could they have done the lawsuit reason that the video suggests? Possibly, but I think Jeff's skills as a lawyer were sharpened by his killer instinct and unfeeling nature. A nature that changed because of his time at Greendale meaning teaching was his only option. I guess seasons 1-3 might have been more hopeful but I wouldn't say there's a huge difference. I'd direct your attention back to Mixology Certification (season 2) for a great example of how the show dealt with the realness of the characters and how it can succeed through some pretty depressing themes.
I think the writer's intentionally made Jeff's ending kind of tragic. Its like, once you get into Greendale, you can't escape it (which sounds like a horror movie plot to be honest). We see multiple people like this in the show, like Pierce continuously studying in the school or the criminology professor, or even Chang. Jeff also became trapped in that circle, becoming dependent on the place because he thinks he has no value outside of it.
AND for Jeff and his career, I think the repilot pretty much explains himself why he would stay and teach. The previous four seasons laid grounds on Jeff on progress from being a heartless lawyer who only cares about himself to a more caring and grown human being. It suggests that Jeff, after his days in Greendale, grows as a person, he fails to become the cold and selfish man who gave him a promising legal career. He faces obstacles as he tries to use the talent to defend the powerless, feeling the tension between the cold world outside and being a Greendale-raised warm person. Though he still has flaws (such as being lazy), Jeff accepts that he is a broken person and has to change. I mean a happy ending would be a feel-good ending for many viewers who don't care much but only want to watch tv and cast away. But for others, and thousands of community fans, they sure know the growth of the study group is a great deal to the show and would not like them to stick back to the people they used to be before Greendale. That is what I call the "Greendale Effect".
Jeff didn’t like being a lawyer exactly, he liked the life of luxury, parties and women that came with it and the fact he could do it by not putting any actual effort. If he really liked being a lawyer he would have gone to an actual University, studied really hard and tried to keep himself immersed in the world of law. Instead he goes to the quickest, cheapest, easiest school because what he really wanted was to live a luxury life again as quick as possible. Making him a successful lawyer again after 4 years of slacking off and taking blow classes would have been the “best” for Jeff but thats not real life and I appreciate Community for being sensible in that sense.
I understand your point but frankly I disagree. Jeff was able to fake being a lawyer in a prominent (presumably) Denver firm for SEVEN YEARS. That’s crazy! Law is incredibly complex and even if he was only a trial lawyer, leaving all the paperwork to a lawyer behind the scenes (which is a thing) he would still need to understand Legalese. On top of that, I’d like to point out that Jeff is a MOMMAS BOY ATTENTION WHORE! If he can put in minimal effort using his brain that seems to be built for debate/law, and receive abundant rewards, that’s gonna feed his soul! Also I’m sorry but in the entire state of Colorado there where no cases for an entire summer where some low income person was subjected to abuse by a larger power and DIDNT want to take advantage of a pro bono lawyer?!!! I don’t think so. I get that Harmon and Co. had to deal with the supposed mistakes of season 4 but I really dislike this idea that Jeff couldn’t hack it as a good guy lawyer. That’s the ending for Jeff, he’s absorbed in working for the little guy, feeding his ego in a healthy way while Annie is making her way towards being an FBI agent and then we have some Law & Order shit happening between them. Abed goes to Hollywood and makes it but ofc there are hills and valleys. Shirley has an affair with the detective she spun off with, Britta is a daytime Zoom therapist nighttime bartender (eventually becomes partner in the bar, maybe another group member invests? LeVar Burton?), Troy uses the money from Pierce’s will to create a plumbing academy or something and eventually he’s a major shareholder in Abed’s production co. In a perfect world he and Britta would get back together but maybe that’s a little too sitcom-ish.
Really enjoyed the video but two things: 1) I love season 5 to death (it has my favorite community episode in it, favorite cold open and some of my favorite character moments) so I’m glad they didn’t stop after season 4. 2) I’m a huge Annie and Jeff shipper but I’m happy that they didn’t fully end up together at the end. I like that they realize that they are in two different places in their lives and that right at that current moment they can’t be in a relationship together but maybe they could in the future(the hypothetical season 7/movie). They still admit they love each other but know nows not the right time. It feels realistic and I like that Jeff is able to let her go, let his friend group grow and find who they are especially since he was so adamant in the first few seasons that the group needed him when in reality it was the other way around. I feel like Jeff/Annie would’ve ended up being a couple at the end of the movie if they ever did it.
I always thought Britta deserved a better ending. Especially after season 4 where they turned her into an absolute brainless mess. She was such a fun, complex character and they completely stripped her of that and reduced her down to nothing but a stupid blonde fake feminist. Also I accept that its canon but I always hated Annie and Jeff as a couple. The age difference makes me so uncomfortable and I always found it a little predatory. That's also a little personal maybe because Jeff is only like 3 years younger than my dad was when I we meet Annie at 18 😅
I think the ending that you’ve suggested is really good in terms of character arc for Jeff as him settling for a job as teacher really doesn’t suit him, however for Jeff and Annie I don’t think they should ultimately end up together, I think they should’ve tried a relationship in season 6 after Jeff realised his feelings in the s5 finale and developed the relationship up until the last episode when Jeff then realises he has to let her go, I think this still gives the bittersweet ending but with more of a payoff for their arc through the show
My proposal for the formation of the Save Greendale Committee (cribbing the first from you) 1. Jeff defects to defend Greendale 2. Turns out Annie is an intern at his new firm 3. A visiting Abed decides to make a documentary about the trial
this video pretty much nails the main issues with the ending seasons of the show. Jeff ends season 6 with nothing, he's miserable teaching law at Greendale and the woman he truly loves gets on a plane and leaves. As the "main character", you are just left not feeling very hopefully for his future at all. Thankfully we have confirmation on the movie coming, where we can tie up some loose ends and get some closure. At least something better than being stuck in a deadend job and alone.
I agree that losing 3/4 of the Greendale Seven was rough, but I loved the "replacements", duncan, hickey, elroy were all great, and frankie's one of my favorites from the whole show
Whether or not I agree with your suggestions is irrelevant, this was a well put together video. Wel done my friend. I do agree, but again, would have liked and watched to the end regardless. "The Annie of it all"
I really like how respectful you handled the original writing. It’s very hard to come with things. And it’s not like they totally butchered the show. Great points and great video, thank you
i like that the ending acknowledged the love between Annie and Jeff without being a perfect sugar sweet romance. it was bittersweet but realistic, as in life sometimes even people caring for each other can't be together. but also i really need a movie in which they're finally together because come on, they're PERFECT together.
Ok here's mine: I like the ending we got so I would only chang a couple things. 1. Jeff and Britta get together (I've always thought they were better for each other) 2. (They don't have to go full office and show it) but Abed marries Rachel. 3. Craig finally gets elected for a school board position. 4. Something with Duncan. (He was one of my favs and I wish we got some closure on him.) 5. I LOVE the finale end card, but It could've been better. 6. Jeff learns to love teaching (duh-doy) 7. Keep Annie's plot 8. Give Shirley some closure. Like Andre coming back or something like that. 9. Anything with Troy. 10. Give us a movie....
thats a weird interesting topic to step in. I guess because its my favourite tv show, I've never thought of a different ending, or that the current one is bad. It sure does need a movie tho
If I were to “rewrite” the last two seasons, I would keep Jeff as a teacher (it was foreshadowed when they revealed Jeff’s degree was in education) but make it so Jeff actually grows to like his job and actually learns law. Jeff seemed to have grown too much of a heart to go back to the way he was before, so I think he would either develop a real passion for teaching and stay there or maybe defend Greendale or one person in a case and realizes there’s a noble side to law that makes him feel more whole than the kind he practiced before. It could also help strengthen his relationship with Annie as she would be holding him accountable and they would study together. They started out doing this and it seemed like that’s where it was going, but then Jeff just gave up, sort of saying that he never really changed.
Yes. I also felt that Jeff should’ve returned to his life as a successful lawyer, this time a legit one. Maybe it’s Dan Harmon’s way of telling us that sometimes in life, people don’t achieve their goals. But in Jeff’s case, that’s his entire driving force & motivation for joining Greendale in the first place. He put himself through 4 years of school in a place he hates. If he had to give up law, he’d just quit when he got disbarred for having a fake degree. His life, desire & skills as a lawyer were consistently shown throughout the series. Jeff & Annie are 25 & 40 respectively. And they met when she was 18. So it’s a little bit creepy. And the show wanted to steer clear of sending that message. Jeff felt like he’d hold Annie back.
I just finished my first run of Community. It's actually a pretty pleasant binge over a week or two with the shorter episode lengths, which would normally be a downside for me, but I feel like it's probably for the best because while some of the episodes have great premises, and are absolutely hilarious, sometimes too much of it can just feel kind of trope after a while. So having it's episode, then doing something different keeps things fresh, atleast to some degree. With that being said, I don't get the hate for season 4. I've always heard that 4 was just garbage, how it was a 'gas leak year', or whatever. And it's referenced in the show constantly in the seasons after. But honestly, I didn't really mind season 4. I mean, season three kind of went off the rails near the end, however fun it was. Season four wasn't my favorite, but I wouldn't call it the 'worst' either tbh. Really, if we had more 'closure' in S4, and it didn't just feel like another end to a season where we know we'll be coming back 'next year', even if I saw it at release, if the 'end' had a bit more closure for all of the characters and didn't feel almost kind of rushed and non-important, I'd love to just have my four season binge. But even in the moment it just didn't really feel like anything was changing. Season 5/6 had some moments, I had some good laughs. But at the same time, it just felt different. More so than season 4 even. The shots just felt less inspired, the writing was more.. unoriginal, maybe? Like the writers had done everything they could think of to blend with 'normal' day to day student life. So, it just felt more like students getting into hijinks than the kind of 'out there, jumping the shark' stories that blended with it before in previous seasons. It felt more like a student council meeting where "this week we have to deal with this problem" rather than "here is the crazy episodic story this week that also kind of fits with our ongoing stories". It just lost a lot of it's charm for me for the most part, especially after Troy left. Without Troy, Abed is just kind of the crazy guy all the other characters saw him as. So, you lose a good portion of that blend between the 'normal' and 'crazy antics'. And after realizing that the ship was supposed to be between Annie and Jeff, and after accepting that in the kind of random start of it in the finale of S1, I kind of expected they might do something with it. Then S2 came and went, and S3. And S4. They had there cutsie moments, but nothing really happened. Then in the final two seasons they make note of it more, outright calling it several times. But then they make the age difference that makes their potential relationship offputting to some even more so when they age up Jeff by half a decade or more than everyone assumed. They went out of their way to do that. And then continued to do the 'will they, won't they, are they jelous' stiche. And then kind of nowhere in the end, they bring up their potential relationship again, but then don't really do anything with it. Which is kind of baffling really. I can only imagine what long term fans that watched it as it released feel about it. It just felt like the writers just didn't know what else to do after S4, but instead of leaving it with some sort of finality, they continued it despite the characters not even being students at the school anymore besides a few episodes in S5. It just really made me wonder what the writers were trying to do, or what they wanted fans to think. Every decision they either set up, or made, just seemed to become reversed or irrelevant after some time. So, there wasn't much of any closure on anything. That being said, I'm really happy I gave the series a chance, out of nowhere. I always heard good things about it, but didn't really know much of anything about it. And I will probably rebinge the series many times to come in the near future and going forward. But unfortunately, I don't know if I can do a full run, at least with satisfaction, knowing how it ends in retrospect. Atleast up until now I figured, "Well, surely the writers will make things a bit more compelling and give us a satisfactory conclusion in the next couple of episodes, right?" But in retrospect, I'm more confused than disappointed, and more disappointed than I feel any closure. Not going to lie though in retrospect that muppet episode was pretty weird. I had a few laughs, but I will agree that not all of S4 was "great" or anything. That one was bizarre.
I like the final episode, the meta 😢cliffhanger of if we should have a season 7 or a movie being talked about by the characters like they’re the writers of the show is not only funny, but when the show makes its grand exit, Jeff and Annie’s goodbye is a perfect flip of season 1’s finale, and it casually makes me the viewer want the exact opposite of what I hated from the season 1 finale, but with season 6’a shaky up and down run, the moment in the finale made me enjoy what we received for all of the characters
I like your ideas on the ending, and the points you made about Jeff and Annie. Things I would have done (with hindsight, of course): Start season 5 as you describe, with Jeff being successful at law again but the threat of a lawsuit against Greendale potentially invalidating his credentials (bonus points if the plaintiff is Star Burns). The others (minus Pierce, assuming we still have to deal with Chevy Chase leaving) return as witnesses and/or advocates/part of the Save Greendale Committee. Season 5 pans out about as expected, but with some extra tidbits here and there dedicated to building the case. The finale ends on a cliffhanger (because they weren't sure if more seasons would follow) with the group leaving campus for the showdown in court. Assuming season 6 happens, begin with the start of the trial. Also assume Shirley has stayed. Bring in Paget Brewster as the counsel for the prosecution. Bring in Keith David as the developer of an accountant software package who worked with Greendale in the past and can attest to their accreditation/financial practices. Protract the trial over a few episodes that culminate with the lawsuit succeeding. Spend an episode dwelling on the group reflecting on their failure before hope comes again with the revelation that the plaintiff's degree was falsified, much like Jeff's, and that the original lawsuit is baseless. The remainder of the season is a caper to prove this. At season's end, when they succeed, Abed leaves for Hollywood. Shirley's business finds a second life. Britta doubles down on psychology and actually goes back to a different school for a Master's. Annie leaves for DC, working for the FBI. Jeff is planning on going back to his practice, but the show ends with him driving Annie to the airport. They share a moment, she goes through security. Jeff thinks for a bit, and the camera shows his gaze moving to the ticketing counter. Leave it ambiguous. ... Then there's the movie. Assume that after season 6, it still hasn't been made. COVID and everything still happen. Don't focus the movie on Jeff - focus it on Troy. He is finally back from his trek with Levar Burton, and boy does he have stories to tell! He shows up at Greendale to find...everyone gone. Greendale campus is closed down, and the school has switched to online courses. However, the Dean does still work there, and gives him Shirley's contact info, as she's the only one of the old crowd still local. He also finds out about COVID for the first time, and realizes his shares in Hawthorne Moist Towlettes have skyrocketed in value, making his bequeathal even more valuable. The catch: someone has stolen them from him. Hawthorne's lawyers have decided to take that money for themselves, using the technicality that Troy never succeeded in sailing the Childish Tycoon as dictated by the will. Unfortunately, Levar Burton went missing after he and Troy were separated in Hong Kong by a deluge of Skittles from an unfortunate traffic accident. To prove his right to the inheritance, Troy must rally the group again. Only the affidavits of everyone at the table who was polygraphed will serve as adequate testimony!
I know this video is three years old, but I 100% agree with everything you are saying! I've been arguing the points you make here for years whenever I end up discussing Community with people, and it is nice to know I'm not alone there.
I think that maybe the movie will be like a “high school reunion” moment with all the original cast+Season 5/6 (Except Pierce) and then we see that story with Annie and Jeff
If we get that movie one of the scenes HAS to be troy sailing into harbour on his boat and Abed running up to him and doing their handshake before going to a big hug. The movie has needs trobed to be canon, this is non-negotiable
Props for pointing out that hindsight is 20/20 and that's it's easier to fix what is already there as opposed to creating it out of thin air. Loved your video. Well done.
I hate how the college campus got continuously distilled down to just the key characters throughout the series. I shrunk the scale of the setting and made it feel more and more overly-intimate to a fault instead of panning out on the show’s world building.
I agree on jeff not being a bad lawyer but the rest I am fine with. Community did something that's really realistic it's a undifinitive ending it leaves a hole in your life as in theirs, an uncertainty about the future.
This video is amazing and your hypothetical works perfectly but I heavily disagree with what you believe about Annie and Jeff, I feel like Annie is more of a reminder to Jeff that he won't always be young, hence why him lying about his age was an issue. I think Jeff works as a reminder to Annie that she's growing up. At the end of the day they're both polar opposites which is why their on and off is more of a learning experience for both characters. That's all I gotta say, keep up the amazing work. You're highly underrated man
Enjoyed the video. I actually agree with your points, so I don't have much to say that would challenge your video. What I do have to say is really more towards the people who think Jeff and Annie should not have ended up together, specifically those who think Jeff was grooming Annie. Jeff and Annie's relationship started with Jeff rejecting Annie, because I think he himself wanted to be with someone so young, didn't want to seem manipulative to a weak mind, and in the end, didn't want to seem like a groomer. In fact, Jeff thought the relationship he was bound for was one with Britta, where we seem him falling into the "wedding trap," if you will, not once but twice with her. I think their relationship's growth very important and is also important to their own personal growth. In the end, they seem to have to need to end up together, not because he was manipulating her, but because they have chemistry, they genuinely love each other, and they actually might see a future with the other
My biggest issue with the ending is how the characters got so close as a family and then just left each other, like you can still keep in touch, phones exist, there doesn't need to be an ending to the group, I have gamenight every 2 weeks with my friends from highschool, like yeah you can't see each other everyday but that doesn't mean you should just split, they went through so much together they're basically a family
I think...and take this lightly... i think the writers did this plot gap to make the movie more interesting to watch so that people will watch it more eagerly, they were implying there will be a movie from the very first season and I think they just hit a little bumb in production and will be making a movie and millions of people will come to watch it in hopes to fill the plot holes... just my speculation though :p
Hey man, I really appreciate that you opened up saying it's way easier to say "here's how it should have gone" than actually writing it in the first place. But I think you've really missed the mark as far as Jeff is concerned, and that the way you'd portray it might at best be marginally more satisfying in the moment, but far less valid as an ending for the characters and way more forgettable. Also while seasons 5 and 6 are a little more flaky as far as the average quality of the episodes go, I think it still peaks just as high. Ass crack bandit, polygraph test, Dean in VR, and I think modern espionage was about the best way to have one more paintball episode. Community just wasn't really the kind of show that could stay as strong forever, no matter what would've happened with Harmon I think. But to Jeff. I feel like you don't get how Greendale has changed him. He's kind of an asshole manipulator when he comes in, it's how he's operated as a lawyer. Over the seasons he starts buying into the silliness of Greendale, even beyond exploiting it for his own gain. but more than that he learns to get over himself. He's not special, he's actually pretty broken inside from the way he's lived, and going back to the old way won't change anything in that regard. Aside from that, he's entered his 40's. Jeff is coming to the realization that maybe he just doesn't want to go back to being a lonely smug asshole. And that's also why he really shouldn't end up with Annie. Or maybe it's rather that Annie shouldn't end up with him. Yes, they've complemented each other perfectly, and by the end of the show the age gap is probably less of a deal than it was before, but where does it leave both of our characters? Annie doesn't get to strike out on her own? And Jeff can't just let a 25-year old live her life? That would be rather depressing in my view, more a sign of arrested development and a failure to let go than a glorious romance. Now I don't think they handled Jeff perfectly. We know how much of a great manipulator he is even when using it for a good cause, so him failing as a lawyer felt a little weird. They could've come up with some other contrivance to take the teaching job, maybe under a temporary pretext. But as for the purpose behind that change, I feel like it makes perfect sense. The Jeff winger in season 1 who cared too much about keeping up appearances, such as his car and status, just isn't the same Jeff Winger who has spent years doing stupid shit and learning that he's happier that way. It's why the final development in his character is learning that even in his new life people will leave, that the study group will continue to fall apart. And that that's fine, that he'll be fine even though he's more vulnerable now. Basically what I'm saying is that if Jeff were to return to being a lawyer and get together with Annie, I highly expect it to feel like character regression rather than any sort of progress on Jeff's part. And for Annie it'd just be a little sad.
i can see what you're saying. so maybe Jeff doesn't have to return to being a lawyer, but he could start doing something that he likes or is at least good at. if they had shown that he enjoyed teaching law, and was having an impact on his students (like they do briefly in that episode where jeff teaches his class how to argue with annie) then I would be happy with his ending as a teacher. i don't know, theres just something about it that feels off to me. like Jeff can't move on from greendale, even after most of his friends have. thanks for the comment though, very well put!
@@never.nothing The big joke about him failing as a lawyer on his own it that there's no money as an honest lawyer. That's all it really was. But you also ignore the fact that Jeff never really was a lawyer, didn't really want to be one and just didn't have what it takes knowledge and credentials wise. Otherwise, he would have gone to a real law school and got a real law degree. There are also glimpses of him coming to the realization that he really is good at teaching and enjoys it just as you say, so maybe that's what's best for him at the end of the show. Sometimes people get left behind. Hell, I've been left behind. People get left behind. They choose to stay. Doesn't mean my life ended. It just went a different way. Jeff's life is going to continue. He's going to meet new people. He's going to make a difference for Greendale and his students. Sounds good to me. As for Annie, It would have been super depressing if she'd ended up with a 40 something Greendale teacher at her age and stage in career. Ugh.
I completely agree with Jeff and Ani balancing each other out and getting together at the end that would be my dream. If there is a community movie which yes we will riot if there is not, but if there is a movie I would love to see them together.
S4 is only the worse in that it had WAY too many subplots that never got enough light and they sincerely needed at least the regular amount of episodes (23+) to properly tell the entire intended story.
I actually loved the season 4 ending bc it provides both closure and hope. Even if it was rushed, everyone graduates and moves on. And at the same time, I may be misreading, but everyone had been a part of each other's personal lives (family gatherings and holiday celebrations) and I just assumed that would continue. Also I liked the Annie/Jeff ending bc even though they did have chemistry, they did have codependency issues, as pointed out by Frankie. Annie gets to pursue her dreams, and Jeff lets go. The thing that really bothered me about the last few seasons is that the character growth felt stagnant, or at least repetitive.
I think your whole problem with Jeff and Annie not being a thing highlights a problem that plagued the show, that being missed potential. There have been plenty of plot points that could’ve made for good episodes that never go anywhere like Troy moving in with Pierce, Shirley’s ex and his role as the normal one, or Annie’s various crushes on different characters
Nah, bruh the actual ending was perfect. Community was never about fairy tale endings. It ended with Jeff learning to accept were he was. He learned that greendale is where he belongs.
Also I wish Jeff excelled as a teacher The show hinted at him becoming passionate about teaching but towards the end he just became a barely present teacher who drinks I wish they either highlighted that more or showed Jeff become happy as a teacher
loving the comments on this video, even the ones that disagree with the two points i made. i would love to reply to every comment, but i would end up saying the same thing over and over again so I'll just put it here:
1. regarding Jeff returning to law, and his character arc: a lot of people saying that jeff returning to law would have suggested he was regressing and not evolving as a character. I understand this, that's why i said it doesn't have to be law specifically (5:34) just as long as it's something he enjoys/is good at. There's an episode where, for a brief moment, we see jeff enjoying teaching his class how to win an argument against Annie. I love that moment, but not long after that he goes back to hating it. Literally the first thing jeff says to the dean after accepting the job is "I wanna kill myself". When season 6 ends we really dont have any reason to believe that he's changed his mind about what he does. If we had seen jeff begin to enjoy teaching his class that would have been a great ending for him.
2. regarding jeff and annie being together: a lot of people saying that it would have been too conventional, and that the ending was supposed to be bittersweet and unconventional (as community usually is).In my opinion, the conventional ending would have been if jeff and britta and ended up together because that's the relationship that basically kicked off the show. Similar to Ross and Rachel ending together (Friends), Ted and Robin ending together (How I Met Your Mother) and so on. Jeff and annie's relationship is super unorthodox and unconventional for sitcoms, and they spent six seasons building it up perfectly especially in the season 5 finale where jeff opens up the secret door by using his strong feelings for annie (boy, that sounds weird out of context). Like i said, i don't think characters have to end up with something in order for the ending to be a good one (7:02) but I don't see any reason why we couldn't have gotten a time skip into the future which showed Jeff and Annie finally in the right places in their lives to give their relationship a lot.
again, i love the comments this video has been getting and it's been making me think harder about community than i ever thought i would haha. thanks for watching everyone!!
They mention in S5 that the reason Jeff fails as a lawyer again is because he now refuses to defend people that are clearly guilty.
In earlier seasons he’s called a ‘litter bug’ for how much ‘trash he puts back on the street’. When he returns to law, having gained a moral compass, he decides to be an ethical lawyer and fails horrendously. This is why he can only become a teacher, because his knowledge of law can’t be used anywhere else.
get out of my brain. if they would have followed up the moment in season 5 (where he admits maybe he likes teaching) with actual story development showing him enjoying it and trying at it I can accept that. But reverting him in s6 back to the lazy unmotivated slacker who now has a drinking problem is making him almost as bad off as in s1 pilot and destroys 4 1/2 years of character development. And everything in the six seasons was heading towards at least having Jeff and Annie exploring if they could work as a couple (spoiler alert it would 100% work and they are great together). Dan copping out and not being willing to actually write an episode or 2 in the final season will never not piss me off.
The ending for Jeff and Annie isn't as bad as you think. For one thing, Jeff finally admits he wants Annie. It just so happens that Annie is going away and doesn't want to start things off long distance. She does, however, mention that the future isn't set in stone. Meaning it's still possible with the series' running gag #sixseasonsandamovie because the fan base is growing with new Netflix audiences. All that said, you might get the ending you wanted between the two, just a little later than you wanted.
@@danielward845 so I tend to believe the ending with Jeff and Annie was all positive. My complaint is Dan waited until the last scenes of the last episode to do it. After the s5 finale I wanted Jeff to admit that early so we could actually get a season where they where together in episodes having some fun again. I think there wasn't enough focus on the last four study group members (Jeff, Annie, Britta, Abed) in s6 and I wanted some good episodes focused on them. A good Jeff/Abed episode...one with Annie and Britta doing stuff together and 2 or 3 with Jeff and Annie together. I liked Frankie and Elroy, but I didn't care about them as much as I did the main 4 and in what ended up being the final season I think to much time was wasted on them and Chang and the Dean at the expense of the study group.
I don’t think you understand the deeper ethical story of community. Jeff was a narcissistic lawyer exploiting the legal system for profit💰Corruption. Now Jeff is at Greendale, a place that gives damaged flawed people a chance. Jeff & Greendale are both imperfect 💕 working on themselves. S5’s finale reveals that Jeff feels love/compassion stronger than any other character now
I didn't necessarily hate Jeff being a teacher, I hated that he didn't learn to enjoy it and take it seriously. There is a scene where he goes off the book and starts actually teaches his way of practicing law and that made me happy. But the next episode he goes back to not caring.
i thought about mentioning that in this video, but because he goes back to not caring, then i figured it wasn't worth it. I would like him being a teacher if he at least developed a passion for it like he did for a split second in that episode where he teaches his class how to win an argument with annie haha
Him not caring is the Jeff way
I believe that was done more as a decoy to a possible film, if/when the community film hits our screens it is safe to assume there will be a time jump(just like in life) and I believe Jeff will be a moderately passionate/caring teacher, everyone left him, it's just him and the dean. That's kinda how I see it starting anyway.
MoXy imagine if him and dean pelton are together and pierce was right all along
@@VioletValk as long as pierce comes back from the dead, i'm down for that story. haha
I think they should have given Britta a better ending. She is quite selfish and has obvious self-esteem issues but she is still a deeply passionate person who looks out for her friends and tries to do or say the right thing even if it means being "The Worst". Plus, for all her lack of theoretical knowledge about psychology she still proves to be insightful and perceptive about her friends' issues, especially Jeff, so it would not have been that unusual to have her end up as a licensed professional in psychiatry or at least some professions where she gets to help people. Having her stagnate and regress was unsatisfying considering her potential, even though she is depicted as quite ditzy she is still a compassionate, observant and emotionally intelligent person who was set up, at least initially, to be able to match Jeff.
I think Britta's growth was more at the start of season six, acknowledging her parents after years of running away. It's a shame she didn't finish her psych degree by the time the show ended, but it alluded to her eventually doing this.
I just watched the last episode of season 6 and then went back and watched season 1 and the difference in her character is insane. The way she lets people into her heart now is really nice to see. She was quite cynical and hard initially.
I feel like Britta should've been given a proper ending as well. They did just as dirty as Jeff, if not, dirtier.
Jeff and Annie make for good drama, but I think Annie's naivete is doing most of the heavy lifting in their mutual attraction. The 20 year age difference is a big deal and Annie is still growing as a person and discovering herself well into the show. By the time she learns who she is, she won't be the abiding girl trying to impress Jeff or looking up to him. She probably wouldn't want him as anything more than a friend she shares history with.
Abed, though? WIth their shared wild imaginations, creativity, sensitivity, gentleness, and similar growth paths, they're a uniquely well-suited pair for a happily ever after. Not to mention they find each other incredibly hot when they roleplay and they loved roleplaying. I also would have considered Troy but he never really had the chance to grow out of his slight narcissism the way Abed did. But if Troy were still on the show, I'd throw in Annie and Troy as partners who have grown equally as much since high school when he ignored her and was just an idealized figure to her and are now a matching pair of sexy, good-hearted geeks with childlike hearts.
As for Jeff? This brings me to the Britta situation. Their conflict originally arose from their own mutual cynicism and how they were really just two sides of the same coin and hated seeing themselves in each other. If that self-absorption was processed into confidence and they grew to like the versions of themselves mirrored in each other it would be an ironic bookend to their relationship. No butterflies and sappy music, just two grownups ready to be grownups together. Still a bittersweet ending, but one about growing up and having an open mind.
@@MrBazBake
While I agree with you points, I'm not entirely sure what your comment has to do with mine the than the last paragraph. I wasn't talking about romantic pairings, I was just talking about how when the show ended Britta didn't really get a proper wrap-up, she was just... there while everyone else got a proper send off.
I feel like Britta’s story in general is completely set aside in the last seasons. She becomes more of the same and ends at the same place she was at almost the entire time. She deserved better!
@@ludmilamendes7799
Well said!
I sorta disagree. Britta is NOT brilliant, but she is GOOD at bartending, and probably could make a lot more tending bar than working as a psychologist. Her background at community college could still be used to be very helpful to people, and give her a strong business sense. And if she ever does open her own bar, her experience and her ties to the activist community could serve her very well, since local politics are so important to running a successful business.
What it really needs is... ahem...
“Troy and Abed in a mooo-vie!”
YESSSSSS (OR TROY AND ABED REUNIIIIITING!)
🎵 troy and abed in good lighting 🎵
I read that in their voices! :D
ngl i think the ending was close to perfect. the only thing that would of improved it is if the cast was still complete.
i can respect that
If there was a movie, I hope Troy and Abed will do the handshake again
Yeah. But that did make Abed's character experience some real growth
The episode was great but the finale was awful. Them all pitching season 7 was pretty entertaining. It's just the problem is that there wasn't a fulfilling ending
@@RustyMTB I think the ending was fulfilling, all of the characters seem satisfied with the result.
The energy from season 5 got so dark and depressing. I feel like this is projecting Jeff’s mental state. I’m dying for that movie Dan promised us
What ending did he promise?
@@aperson-gv7yd #sixseasonsandamovie
@@aperson-gv7yd they kept saying “6 seasons and a movie” in the show, and after the final episode, you see “#andamovie”
@@cant_find_the_door2078 that’s not a promise it’s asking fans hastag that
@@aperson-gv7yd So... apparently the movie is going to revolve around the gang trying to find Troy.
Idc what the plot of the movie is, but it better start with a soft ocean breeze and then the Childish Tycoon sails across the screen and Troy is humming the tune that played over and over again in season 3, forgot the name of it.
daybreak. and ha.
@@maxhkastner7792 thanks
All my boys and all my peeps like to wear nightcaps when they go to sleep
Da, data, daaaa, da
omg i want this now it’s perfect
Honestly I think Troy finishing his trip around the world and making an attempt to reconnect with the study group is a perfect plot hook for the movie. Maybe it could take place at a class reunion at Greendale, and I especially want Troy to meet all the additional season 6 characters (even if they get sidelined to focus on the season 5 cast) because they’re honestly great
Yeah, Hickey and Elroy and Frankie should def come back
Have Troy come back for the reunion, maybe some students start a new paintball war, a couple new students, including the grandson of Leonard possibly
@@Gibbypastrami Hickey died though. Also, I hope to God there is no paintball in the movie, that would be very lame.
@@igormachado2194 bruh I forgot 😭 it’s been 2 years since I rewatched, I used to watch it over and over again but naturally I’ve seen 5 and 6 the least
I agree. I liked Donald Glover and wish he never left the show but he had other things to do.
The thing is… what kind of plot could they do with a movie? That is actually fun to watch…
Yea they could make “ONE FINALE PAINTBAL” but would that be fun to watch? Since it already was perfected!
Is it weird that season 3 community feels like the real ending? Jeff is finally happy at Greendale, Britta has a goal in life, Pierce isn't that racist anymore and confronted his father etc
I also noticed this. It's odd that the end of season 3 gives us so much closure, when they still have one year left of school lol
@@never.nothing it's because they prob knew the show was near some sort of colapse with chevy's feud and also Harmon
@@lipeeefl they were threatened with cancellations constantly
@@ubiquitouspanda4466 also that
never nothing they were preparing for the possibility of being cancelled
The OG cast is the best, but Frankie and Elroy are so underrated! They have some of the greatest lines and moments imo
Now there's a man WHO KNOWS how to marry his cousin!
@@heisenbooger best thing ever
I really hope Frankie and Elroy are in the movie!
I liked Buzz too
Frankie, Buzz and Elroy were all great characters who did their best to fill the rolls of Troy, Pierce and Shirley.
I think the ending is more of a "to be continued..." than a true ending
Maybe they just left some space in case the movie gets done
We can only hope #sixseasonsandamovie
#andamovie #jeffandannie #piercefakedhisdeath
@@never.nothing I'd love to see Donald and Yvette return, but I don't know about Pierce. Chevy Chase is a despicable human being, and I'd rather we don't give him more work.
@@NerdMiGerd well, even in the show he cant because Pierce is dead so we can have only the rest of the cast
Evan Y.T he faked it and is behind everything from Chang take over to setting up the cousin marriage
i think annie specifically not ending up with jeff was such an important final note of character development for her. she went from being an uptight, insecure, boy-obsessed school girl who’s uncomfortable expressing her sexuality to a more mature woman. you would never catch annie saying “eh i’m 20, i’ll forget the kiss in a week” in S1. it’s such an amazing moment because it still shows that she cares a lot about jeff but she’s no longer in love with the “idea of being loved” (as she says to abed in the dreamatorium episode). if annie and jeff ended up together in the end, i personally would’ve felt that it was too forced and it wouldn’t have made sense in tandem to annie’s character development.
While I agree, I don't think it would be forced because you could clearly see the relationship. The issue is whether the relationship was non-familial paternal/big brother or actually romantic.
It also has the problem of the writers somehow simotamiously hinting at a potential relationship to fans in the final seasons, and far before in previous seasons, but then largely ignoring it entirely until the end when it just kind of appears again. IF the writers actually followed through, instead of just making fan service jokes, I think it could've worked. But with how kind of out of nowhere the final episode was with everything, with how little anything led up to it in the previous episodes, it would've been pretty weird even for shippers of the couple.
THANK YOU. Yes! It would've undercut her journey of maturation. And honestly the same could be said for Jeff, someone whose identity was bound to sleeping with younger women. Jeff WAS attracted to Annie, but knew it was wrong and learned to respect her as a friend
I think that you have a great point here. Annie is her own person and the ending really shines for Annie specifically. She is probably the most likeable person on the show (I chose person not character because Abed is the best character but Annie is the best person). She works hard, is deeply caring, kind, and diligent. It would have been an absolute waste for her to not find success and most of all a sense of self worth!
I think the criticism of no Jeff and Annie closure is still legit one though. Hear me out, my vision for the ending with these two is a role reversal.
At the beginning of S1 Annie is in love with Troy then develops feelings for Jeff. She is the classic needy young girl with her head in the clouds. Her view of herself is widely dependent on other people. Over the course of the show she really matures and becomes her own person developing a backbone and some self esteem. Meanwhile Jeff is her opposite, a cynical selfish douche who is only in it to get into Brittas pants. Over the show he develops a heart and compassion. He even starts to be less selfish.
I think there is an alternate world where there is a major S6 role reversal. Annie had matured and grown and doesnt need validation; Jeff has realized the flaws of his selfishness. Instead of Annie pining for Jeff you can have Jeff realize that she was everything to him. It would be dumb to undercut Annie's growth but could be the ultimate cherry on top of both character's development. Maybe it ends with a bit of personal sacrifice on the part of Jeff to realize his transformation away from hyper selfishness juxtaposed with Annie having the personal sense of worth to "stick to her guns". If Jeff loves her so much she knows she will be fine without him he can be the one to be selfless while she maintains her self worth.
I like the idea of Annie and Jeff professing their feelings but Annie's other considerations are just more important to her. She has to be a little selfish and focus on her self. Jeff realizes that he cant have his cake and eat it too... He has something tying him to Colorado that is personally valuable to him but gives that up for the sake of being with the person that he loves the most.
Annie grows a backbone
Jeff grows a heart
I’ve always been pro Jeff and Annie but you rlly put in in a way where I’m glad they didn’t end up together. I completely agree with that, I never looked at it that way.
I really think the Jeff Arc that would make the most sense is to have him doing extremely well as a lawyer instead of failing. He then finds out Greendale is being sued for worthless degrees (by city college represented by his old firm). Jeff defends Greendale as their main lawyer because he has to wins or his degree is no longer valid and would have to start school over again
This. It could be a classic "everyone looks at Jeff to make him do a thing" type of scenario, and when he weighs the outcomes he does what the group wants him to do
Yeah but the point of the show is every characters flaws got them to this community college and now it's time for them to change and become better.
Considering that the closing of a school doesnt invalidate a degree, no. My school got shut down. Still graduated.
This is genius! His degree doesn't have to be at stake, though -- he might just get cajoled into representing Greendale because he's a softie =)
First season "Jeff save us!" I would like your version more.
Jeff actually explains why he was failing as a lawyer before season 5, and it was bc he started defending poor innocent people, in cases where he had to use actual law (which he didn't know), and not just sophism, like before he went to Greendale, when he defended rich people who were clearly guilty of their charges
#andamovie
#andamovie
#andamovie
#andamovie!
#andamovie
this video should have gravity (sara bareilles) as a soundtrack...
I was always sad that Britta never ended up with subway. ):
That would've been best for her
Eat fresh
She sure did@@Skyblueparkbench
The introduction of Frankie into the final season, trying to make Greendale “normal” and basically un-Greendale, made me feel like the main characters were becoming less important, and their sitcom lives were coming to an end. It encapsulates a whole depressing tone that I think was one of the most interesting parts of the show, and I think really suits the meta theming of the show as well. Jeff not having a happy ending, and him realizing that life goes on and he can’t hold on to the ethereal purgatory of Greendale is so important in my opinion.
i agree, that's why i think it would have been great to see jeff cut his ties with greendale, by quitting his teaching job. Jeff's ending makes me feel like his growth as a person is stunted by greendale. His friends move on, but he can't (or won't).
but, maybe that's the point. haha thanks for the comment!
the depressing tone part is so accurate, I lost so much enjoyment from watching the final seasons, it really just didn't feel like the same show and I just ended up forcing myself to finish it but then stopped anyway right before the actual final episode.
@@JosefinaQB wow, happend the same thing to me
@@JosefinaQB Harmon was going through a divorce at the time, same reason Rick and Morty's second season was dark af
The last episode of Community hit me hard because I very much relate to Jeff's situation and difficulty in letting go and moving on. Because I've had the exact same thing happen to me. 75% of my closest friends have already moved out of my country (it's a small country so it's always easy to meet) and the way I saw the study group was the way I saw my circle of friends. They might not know each other but that's how I saw it.
His difficulty and denial of letting go of his friends and moving on hit hard for me. Especially the scene at the end with Annie where he just looms over the empty study group table with the lights off, it speaks volumes.
I know someone already came up with the perfect beginning to the movie In the comments, but I think the perfect "ending" to the movie personally would be Troy and Abed starting an actual morning TV show with all the money Troy inherited from Peirce lol.
Honestly when you admitted that you couldn’t have written seasons 5 and 6 any better at the time was really appreciated. Almost every TH-camr that does this type of video doesn’t admit that writing anything is fucking hard. I’m in the middle of my own book and college courses in my major and it is very hard to write a new world, story, and characters.
hey, that's pretty awesome that youre writing a book!! because I've thought about writing a screenplay/book from time to time, and always end up realizing that writing a coherent, satisfying story is VERY hard to do haha
never nothing it’s tough but really fun. I know my strengths as a storyteller and writer and I know my weaknesses so my process has been very two steps forward one step back.
never nothing I have a beginning and end planned out for the story and character arcs. My motto for making characters too is “Real people don’t make sense” so when I make a character I take a flaw and mix it with a personality or quirk that you don’t often see together in a show. But it’s something you may come across in real life. It makes for fun characters that present a challenge to write and it often ends with them being inconsistent like people often tend to be
@@zerotohero1483 I agree and came here to say the same thing. i have seen like 1% of fanfic writers in a genre do a better job. so its not easy to create a better version. I tried for years to write my own fantasy novel and kept stalling. i found i would do the Rowling flaw and plan were i wanted characters to go and force them to that result. like your saying keep characters real and flawed. have them react to situations you create. i have been having a way easier go because i shifted how i write this year.
Kyle Ellis the best way I’ve found to deal with the Rowling flaw is really look at the characters and think “okay they have this problem and I want to do a Positive character arc with them. Let’s see how they react in the story and scenarios.” Instead of planning where they will be at the end have the plan of what type of character arc you want to do with them and then write with that in mind. This way you won’t pigeon hold yourself too much and you can still make an interesting character. The only thing I really plan out is what the start and ending of my book is and work in those criteria.
I think Jeff teaching law is a decent ending for him, but it needs more set up. We need to see him making that decision.
Show him as a successful lawyer again, but finding it hollow and unfulfilling. He hears about the lawsuit against Greendale and goes back to defend them, to try and preserve the futures of his friends so they don't have to go through what he did after his degree was invalidated.
As head of legal defense, and the only lawyer in the SGC, he's forced to teach the other members about law, courtroom strategy and how to build a defense.
He finds himself enjoying teaching them and rediscivers his passion for the subject, and for saving Greendale. Even if he doesn't care about Greendale as a school, he cares about his friends and their futures.
And then at the end when everyone goes their separate ways, have him reveal that he's been applying for teaching positions at law schools, and has some interviews coming up.
I think Jeff wasn’t able to be a good lawyer anymore because he grew as a person and started to feel compassion which is what apparently destroys a good lawyer.
He tried to defend the little man (no money), and I think just couldn't get himself on his feet. I don't think it's that farfetched that he didn't do well on his own.
It doesn’t destroy a good lawyer, it destroys the kind of lawyer Jeff used to be and still longed to be. That killer drive of winning at all costs had given way to a different kind of good lawyer. It’s not that he’s be ineffective in certain cases, but there just aren’t as many of those to build a practice around.
He wasn't able to be a good lawyer cause money honestly... jeff was already amazing, kinda like a mix of harvey and mike from suits tbh, there's no reason to fail as a lawyer when u know it u know it, as per all the things in life, the walk is hard, but the results are there forever after. We do however have hope, with the major success of rick and morty, recent podcasts and stuff with the whole crew together, and the success of the show in netflix aswell, things for sure look bright for a new season or the damn movie, i would've said it was this year to be recorded, but our world kinda fell apart, hopefully that doesn't shut down the community door forever.
Re: Jeff moving to DC: that would have been a great final step for him as a character. He spent the whole show with everyone else orbiting around him. He’s the catalyst for the show in 1x01 and 5x01. Him being able to follow someone else out of his comfort zone for their benefit would be a fantastic character development.
Couldn't agree with this more
I KNOW! I mean he didn't even want to be a professor and it was clear that he was never happy there. He also realized that he loved Annie and wanted to feel younger, so why would he not go with Annie and see what was out there? I think it would be a perfect development for him to move on from Greendale and actually give his life an order.
That's true. There is always a lingering feeling that Jeff has always been a big fish and little pond as he mentioned when Troy left that he is never even been outside Colorado. Moving to DC would definitely test his ego and confidence and make it so he would really have to care about law and not have the comfort of the study group to cushion his ego
Jeff's last lines to Abed should have been, "I see your value now."
It would’ve been better if Abed said it to Jeff
Barf
@@null3715 he did in S5E1
@@null3715 he did say it to jeff
I've always been of the opinion that Jeff's line in that moment should have been, "Thank you for seeing my value."
The only answer is that they should’ve ended with a movie.
Jeff being a teacher at Greendale always irked me for some reason, but I could never put my finger on why. Him just accepting that he would stay there forever honestly didn't sit right, after he spent the past four seasons doing his best to get out. Jeff and Annie may not be my favorite couple (I'm honestly quite curious as to how Troy and Britta's relationship would have panned out under Dan Harmon's writing instead of what we got which was boring) but I recognize that they do balance each other out rather well. And I would have liked for Jeff and Annie's reunion to be the final scene. Rather than that really weird kind of depressing board game thing? I still don't understand what that was all about to be honest. But anyway, this was kind of a long way for me to say, great video!
thank you! and yes i agree. literally the first thing he says after accepting the job is "I wanna kill myself" and then we are hardly given any reasons to believe he's changed his mind after that.
The last scene is Dan Harmon (literally Harmon narrating) lamenting all the mistakes he made in the show, and all his regrets of his actions and mistreatment of others outside of the show. Hoping that all the people he loves are still watching (still care about him).
DropBearFace ohhhh ok, got it
I dont know once he dated slater i saw him ending up as a teacher. especially with the student/teacher relationship form i saw it as set up for annie later. I believe Dean pelton needs to go to school board and jeff takes over as dean. yeah i will say britta/troy was as big a letdown with how season 4 handled it.
@@kyleellis9177 thats a new foreshadowing i hadn't thought of for Jeff and there's always a chance they could do right by the Troy and Britta pairing in the movie. Considering the importance of Brittas involvement with Troy's exit and how their dynamic was shown throughout it
One of the main reasons that I liked Annie and Jeff not getting together was because of the age difference between them. Had they initially had the characters closer in age, it would have been fine. But the fact that there's an age difference, and with how creepily the show plays with this age difference through jokes and constantly sexualizing Annie (sometimes specifically after stating that she's very very young compared to everyone else), I think it's better that they stay apart, as it'd be less creepy overall, even if it would be a good fir for their characters.
The age difference is irrelevant. They are both adults. There is not a single good reason against a relationships where the man is much older than his wife.
@@kingofmontechristo Maybe it would be irrelevant, if the show didn't say itself multiple times that the age difference was creepy, and then they went through with it anyways.
@@PersonMan000 just because they said it, doesn’t mean that it is the truth. Being creepy does not justify facts and the truth
@@kingofmontechristo i wouldnt say irrelevant, especially considering how young annie was when jeff first met her it comes off a little creepy
@@kingofmontechristo nah dude it's creepy
I definitely feel like the show kinda died when troy left
I totally agree. Once Troy left it felt very weird.
Me too.When we're talking about a series like Community, you can't just get rid of a character that easily.His role might have not have been huge, but he was part of the team and it alaways felt like something was missing.
3x04 warned us nothing good comes from troy leaving
TROY IS LEAVING?? When??
Facts!!!
I like the ending cuz it is not typical. I like the concept of the pitching and also how jeff is the one who was the saddest when the group is breaking considering he was the one who didn’t want t a study group in the first place at season 1 ep 1. The contrast really shows us that jeff deep down cares the most about the group. ALSO since they got shirley to play the pitch part why not have a scene where they meet each other for the last time
In my opinion, Dan Harmon intentionally did not capitalise on the romantic relationship among the study group. For example, as the romantic relationship between Britta and Troy grew in S3, it was only brought up subtly. By doing so, it avoids viewers paying the attention only to shipping them, but also the growth of every single member in the study group.
I really think Jeff and Annie share a tremendous romantic tension but capitalising on it will make Community just another generic comedy show.
good point. Community has always been a very unconventional show.
I totally agree, but in the end of the show was the right time to put them together.
But the reasons Dan chose not to have Jeff and Annie get together had nothing to do with the characters or story. It was external factors including him not wanting critics to take shots at him personally for making them a couple. Jeff and Annie was the proper ending for the show.
@@snakeeyes7327 yeah dan has a i cant do it this way because they expect it. so even if something worked and we expected it based on build up he would subvert to subvert
@@kyleellis9177 that wasn't his issue in this case. Because of his inappropriate behavior in the writers room with Megan critics where attacking the Jeff/Annie story line claiming it was Dan living out his fantasy through the characters. So he didn't finish their natural arc of that story the way he should have so he didn't have to deal with having to get criticized for his behavior again. Also why he waited until the last scenes of the last episode to wrap it up.
It’s so crazy, these were my exact thoughts. At the end of the show I was so sad about Jeff and Annie. I know people will disagree, but I think my ending is that Jeff and Annie move to dc with Jeff becoming a federal prosecutor (practicing law) and also Brittany needs an ending.
I've got issues with Series 5 and 6, but I'd say that last episode was as close to perfection as Community could have gotten given the circumstances - plus we're still waiting for the real ending in a movie.
I don't really agree that it was important for Annie and Jeff to get together. I generally hate it when shows mush characters together like dolls forcing them to kiss, so I thought that them not getting together was a nice change of pace. Jeff and Annie had already touched each others' lives in a meaningful way so anything else would've been unnecessary/overkill imo
Agreed. There was always a taboo/ick factor to their will they/won't they. And the way they left it was just perfect. Accepting their love for each other but still heading their separate ways.
I would agree with you, if in the finale they didn't basically acknowledge their love for each other. If it would've been just the whole thing about how they're at different points in their lives, and maybe a hug, that's some decent closure.
But it's made clear that Jeff loves her, to the point that he freaks out when he finds out she's leaving. Then they "resolve" that with a kiss?
In my opinion, a fully romantic, loving, non sexual kiss doesn't feel like something to conclude a relationship with. Annie even hints at the possibility of a future for them "season 7, who knows? Too many variables"
If you look at the finale scene with them as an open-ended relationship with the possibility of something more to come, I think it works and does what it needs to do.
But if I were to interpret it as a "goodbye, this will never work but we still love each other" thing, that seems like the opposite of a good execution.
Maybe it's just me, but if I loved someone who was at a different point in their life then me, and they loved me too, and we acknowledged our feelings and shared a loving kiss, I would NOT be able to move on after that lol.
As a Jeff/Annie shipper, the lack of satisfying closure leaves a hole in my heart until we hopefully get a movie with some resolve :)
what's saddest about Jeff's ending, is he literally just settled. that's why he also just comes off with such a losery vibe- like I feel like at some point in the show, probably after season4, he really just seemed to shed his cool guy act and seems more, pathetic, even if he still is being his normal cool guy Jeff Winger self. Like that's his whole thing, he's too cool for everyone and a community college is not where he belongs, but at some point it seems like a community college is an easy fit and he is just at the same level as everyone else. so its just like instead of being his stubborn, assholeish self and being "too awesome" to fail at becoming a lawyer again, he kind of just, gives up and settles for something he despises
Same for Britta, she's no longer the activist - upcoming therapist she just ends up being a bartender.
Annie and Abed are the only ones who actually went up in the world, I guess Troy could count if you his inheritance is going up.
I mean you could make a positive spin on that. For example: in almost every romcom of the 2000s, an over-ambitious, somewhat cold and corrupted lead character returned to his/her hometown, found a love interest who slowly warmed his/her heart, and realized their true self. In the same sense, you could argue that Jeff went from exceedingly ambitious and uncaring, seeing Greendale as a lame place worth disregarding, to abandoning his originally-chosen profession to fight for and protect the place. In that sense, the love story of Community is Jeff and Greendale. It's like Sweet Home Alabama, but Greendale is Alabama, and Jeff is Reese Witherspoon.
I personally disagreed with both the points in the video-first, as a law student, I'd strongly discourage anyone from thinking "being manipulative and persuasive means you'd definitely be a good lawyer!" Second, Annie and Jeff were clearly at separate stages in their lives, as noted by the show-in cannon he's 17 years older than her.
Moreover, I think Jeff being a successful lawyer and getting the girl would be way too fan-servicey, reminiscent of Glee, when flash-towards showed each character MAXIMALLY personally and professionally fulfilled. ("She won a Tony and has a loving husband who ALSO won a Tony!!! Hooray!!!!"). I agree with some of the comments here that Britta's ending was pretty strange, but Jeff's ending represents his growth.
That's because, by the standards of real life, Jeff was a loser from the first episode. He was an emotionally unavailable tool. And he really didn't change much until the last season, in terms of accepting that he has issues and not trying to prop up that facade. Now he's a sad-chad
I feel the movie would give us closure, with Abed as the director. Be it "real" or all in his imagination/telling a story
Ya'no, with infinite timelines, there's prolly a timeline where Abed did actually develop the ability to hop between timelines for real. They could do a schrodinger's cat scenario where Annie and Jeff are simultaneously in a relationship and not in a relationship and no one knows for sure until the box lid is opened, sort of speak (kinda like the series, but on steroids).
@@fcsuper I read this in Abe’d voice 😂
If Annie had been played by an actual 18 year old, a lot of people wouldn’t ever have supported the pairing. Instead, Alison Brie is the same age as Gillian Jacobs
Maisie yes!
thats a really good reason. i overlook myself. but really im only against them being a couple in seasons 1 to 4. season 5/6 shes 23+ and im fine with it.
Kyle Ellis I prefer the dynamic more in the later seasons too, but I just find it weird in general because they are in different stages in their life and I think it’s just right person, wrong time
@@maisie9705 I agree. honestly i dont see the ending so much as depressing but more as confimation they get together in the movie that in my head takes place 5 years after the finale. knowing annie shes going to go career heavy and lose herself same way jeff did as a lawyer. movie is about her rebuilding her life slowing down and not forcing confessions from criminals so she has highest amount of arrests.
Well mean Jackie from that 70s show was played by a 16 year old and noone cares except for the actors being like this is weird right?
Justice for Britta she deserved way better
I love that they went with a quite sad ending for Jeff. And Harmon has said that in the last episode Jeff and Annie love each other, but that doesn't mean Annie should give up her young life.
Not really a fan from happily ever after endings.
Also Dan Harmon wanted season 4 to be a lot outside of Greendale so when they graduate at the end of 4 they could organically make it about the 7 friends instead of about Greendale. Season 5 and anything thereafter would have no Greendale in it. Sadly he got fired and all his plans for season 4 were ruined along with 5 and everything after that.
He felt that season 4 felt so off, he needed to ground the series into it's original feeling. Introduce people back to what Community was and he felt that the only way to do that was bringing Greendale back. So yeah, season 4 ruined what could have been. Repilot feels very forced, which it is. But if you just imagine college is 6 years and season 5 and 6 are great.
Off-topic. Don't really get that people call season 1, 2 and 3 the golden days. I liked 5 and I loooved 6.
*Correction*, Dan Harmon ruined his chances at giving Community a proper send-off because he sexually harassed one of his employees. His absence in season 4 nicked this show in the ankles, but Dan isn't the real victim here. Dude really brought this shit upon himself.
Exactly. Annies in her early 20's, Jeff is in his 40's. She has her dream job, he doesn't. Him not pursuing a relationship they both want is his way of showing he actually cares more for her well being than his own, which was Jeff's whole character arc the entire series (originally because he wanted to be cold calculating layer type and later because it was just who he had become)
NerdMiGerd EXACTLY. That’s why all of the cynicism in seasons 5 and 6 (that wasn’t present in the early seasons) that’s used to mock season 4 is just in bad taste because if he wanted to make season 4 maybe he shouldn’t have done a bunch of crap to get himself fired
Couldn't he have taken them away from Greendale for season 5? They all would have graduated at that point.
NerdMiGerd He didn’t get fired because of the Megan Ganz stuff. However, he was still very difficult and turned in scripts incredibly late, and because of that NBC fired him. So yes he caused it, but it wasn’t the sexual harassment that did it.
After hearing the cheery, yet also depressing intro by the 88, I always envisioned the show ending with that song. I imagined the characters showing growth at the end of the story, with the viewer being shown how they improved on their flaws because they learned from eachother. They would all get amazing opportunities that would put distance between them. The titel song ends with the lines: "I can't count the reasons I should stay, one by one, they all just fade away" which just sounds perfect to me to combine with a final shot of them having fun at a table with each of them fading away one by one, perhaps with one person being hesitant to move on and trying to stick to greendale, only to finally walk away and move on as the others fade away. The ending is rather bleak but I think it would have a significant impression as most of us can relate to growing together with a group of friends from school and then just slowly drifting apart. It's a sad moment, just like the show ending, but it emphasises how great those times were and how it's okay that they end and that new times are afoot.
Having seen your ending, I would've loved for this to be the series ending and then following it up with a movie where a few years have passed and greendale is in danger. The cast comes back together to save greendale and they use their respective talents to bring this about. Annie could use her forensics to find evidence of city college wrongdoing, jeff could represent the legal side, abed could make a documentary about it and so on. they end up saving greendale and decide to stay in contact. Annie and Jeff get together. Fast forward a few years and we can be shown that they did in fact remain in contact.
I’m in the minority of people who think Jeff and Britta should’ve stayed together. They shared things in common and did at times have opposite characteristics. I’ll concede that Jeff and Annie wouldn’t be a bad match either, but the age difference has always bugged me a bit. I just wished they kept the Britta of the first two seasons when she wasn’t an airhead and had a little more depth to her. She’s funny in season 3 & 5, but she turned into more of a punchline.
Ty Manning I would agree with S1 Britta, but after that is literally shown they don’t work as a couple.
Imo Jeff and Britta are best served as being life long friends. They bounce off of each other well. But are too much a like that they became combustible when actually together(which I similarly view Troy and Abeds relationship. Though thats about limiting in expressions and development rather than being combustible. As they had difficulty maturing when together). That's why I think if there are pairings its Jeff and Annie and Troy and Britta(finalized and for Troy and Britta given greater depth in the movie). As they are pairings that help each other grow beyond what their comforts are. Jeff grew away from his selfishness toward caring and being accepting of change/life happens. Through Annies involvement in his shallow and reductionist perspective. While Annie grew into a strong willed and assertive person through Jeff pushing her buttons and mentoring her. Troy grew out of his shell with Brittas underlying involvement throughout the first 3 seasons(yes Abed was prominent. But he only helped with one side of who Troy became/is) and even with the faults of season 4 screwing up what should've been. Britta did help him realize that hes not mature enough to be in a committed relationship yet. During their relationship/various interactions that were rather deep. Britta got an understanding for a person, in Troy, who doesn't expound her self hatred. But views the good within her that she has difficulty expressing(he's the only one who calls her _The_ _Best_ and even stated he loves her during his departure. Which leaves things open)
I think the idea of them staying together is REALLY similar to HIMYM ending in which Robin kind of settle downs for Ted. She doesn't actually love him that way, but she just can't find anybody too and feels so lonely. I think that finale hurt Barney/Robin relationship too much because I think that their break-up was too forced, and for Community, I can say that they forced the will they/won't they trope on Jeff/Annie too much. I mean they had a lot of moments accumulating from season 3 and by season 4-5, she was already like 22-23 or so, they could have easily made these two official. Rather, they brushed off a lot of scenes. In season 6, we don't even have any moments between them until the finale, and season 5 literally finishes with Jeff actually seeing that he is in love with her. I think Annie leaving Greendale for the FBI internship was the best development that could have been given to her, but Jeff staying in Greendale is actually a really sad ending because I think that he could have actually leave with Annie and try a relationship with her while he was searching for lawyering jobs.
Ehhh s1 britta sure but idk bout after that
honestly, I feel as though Jeff's ending is a perfect one for him. letting Annie go is the proof he's changed, it's an entirely unselfish act. he acknowledges he doesn't know what she wants in a relationship, just that she wants to be in one with him. I agree about the moment where he learns to love what he teaches, that should've been a turning point to his character. one where he learns to love teaching and though that become less selfish (interacting with his students as plot points) culminating in him letting Annie. again, it's easy to say in hindsight!
Ah, you had me on the first point and lost me on the second. I agree that in seasons 5/6 the writers just didn't know what to do with Jeff's character. The premise revolved around him getting a degree to go BACK to being a lawyer. There was nothing to suggest his degree would be in education, and him as a teacher just didn't sit right because the whole idea was they were all students. However, I disagree about Jeff and Annie, and before anyone says anything about the age gap, let me speak. Annie acts like Jeff's moral compass because he doesn't have one. And the whole group changes him, not just Annie. I think every member (even Pierce ffs) changed him for the better. Jeff doesn't know how to put the needs of others before his own. He admits to being selfish and manipulative several times, and given his toxic relationship with Britta and failed relationships throughout the show, he doesn't deserve Annie. The one time he gave Annie hope, he ignored her. And I honestly think living with Troy and Abed did more to loosen up Annie than Jeff did. They experience a role reversal -- at the end of s1, Annie releases the recording so the group stays together, and Jeff berates her, but in the end, Annie’s taking off, and it's Jeff who desperately clings onto any last threads of Greendale he can hang onto. I think Jeff does love Annie, and he needs her to stay to figure them out feelings. But that's not her job, and I don't think Annie kisses him out of mutual romance, I think it's more of a goodbye/let go kiss. Like, s6 Annie is not going to stay for his sake. She's ready to start a life after Greendale that focuses on her career. She's not the same Annie who fantasizes about romance, she's got bigger plans that don't include a domestic life. It's clear when she asks "do you have any idea what I want?" Much like Jeff projects his emotional issues, he projects what he wants without consideration for what she wants. He's co-opting her into this fantasy when it’s clear that what she wants isn’t that. She chooses herself, and I think that's really important to the preservation and maturity of her character. Neither Jeff or Annie were ready for a relationship. There is so much more for them (esp Annie) to experience, and they need to be different people. Then again, Community has always sucked at writing romantic relationships. Maybe that was for the best, and maybe they'll know what to do for the movie.
Jeff and Britta have more chemistry I think, and I could see them ending up together.
I feel like the people who want them together are just looking for fan service. It makes total sense how they end up not together.
This comment shows why jeff and Annie would not work. I am so glad they did not end up together, because it would be just another Ross/Rachel or Ted/Robin ending, thank you!
I agree with almost everything you said. Annie choosing herself is very important. However, I do think that a relationship between them in the future, after Jeff has learned to let Annie live her life and Annie has gotten some real-world experience, would be completely justified and understandable. They have great chemistry and complement each other very well. I agree that Annie should not feel responsible for being Jeff's moral compass, and that Jeff needs time alone to stop projecting his insecurities and desires onto other people. But Annie doesn't kiss him out of pity or to make him feel better. She truly does feel strongly for Jeff, she's just matured enough to realize that this isn't the right time. I think the writers could've hinted a little more heavily at a future relationship, because this goodbye is the perfect foundation for a much healthier romance in a few years' time, but still kept the ending mostly the same, staying true to the Community style.
@@victorholcberg4122 I can see that, but I feel like if they get together it will be out of fan service and not a testament to their character growth. And I see what you mean about Annie feeling for Jeff. I think she loves him platonically. In the beginning, it was a puppy crush, and as she matured, she realized she wanted a career before romance. And maybe she harbored those feelings still but I think she has the biggest arc from s1 to s6. I also think Frankie played a role in being a healthier mentor figure. I mean, I personally didn't think what Jeff said was a good foundation, and I don't think Annie was reciprocating that sentiment, and I still think Jeff doesn't deserve her. But I agree we need to see how they grow and the s6 ending stayed true to the Community style.
For me, I enjoyed the ending and the fact that Jeff and Annie never got together, because the show makes a good point about letting things go and growing. Annie needed to live her life and at this stage (last episode), I think there's too much life experience between them for their relationship to ever feel satisfying (imo). I liked how Jeff needed to learn how to let things go and accept change and the ever flow of people moving in and out of his life, because that reflects real life, mirrored in Abed's speech in the last episode of how TV ends and we need to let go. Life continues on. I agree though on your point that Jeff's settling as a teacher, which he doesn't seem to get any fulfillment out of, was upsetting. They had that one moment where he was inspired, teaching the class how to argue with Annie, which I thought could be used as a springboard to get him in the groove, but that was a one off event. There was also that episode where he fought with Hickey about teachers' duties to their students, and not seeing them as enemies. It was sad to see that build up didn't go anywhere, even when the inmate attempted to murder Jeff because he wasn't teaching properly. All in all, though, I think Jeff learning to let people go was a satisfying conclusion to a motion that was set arguably, since season 2, through his issues with his dad. He couldn't handle people he love leaving him, whatever the intentions are. I found his transition from "cool guy wanting to get out of here and live a successful lawyer life" to "secretly soft heart wanting to keep everyone he loves close to him" believable. I never questioned his character growth because it just made so much sense to me. I don't even mind the fact that some of the original cast left, because it followed, I think, what the heart of community is - despite being way less grounded than shows like The Office, it reflected life more than other sitcoms through its depiction of the chaotic, ever changing nature of life, the flaws of its characters, growth, and the ongoing work towards our connections with each other. People come and go in our communities. The shape of it shifts as we rearrange ourselves with every gain and loss. Nothing is ever static, just like the tonal shifts in each episode of Community. Given the cards it was dealt with, I think the show gave it as good as it got.
I agree with this 100%
if a movie actually happens we know they're no way Jeff and Annie being together. D4n harmon always play safe. the script will be like they let each other go and move on and remain friends something like that since there are a lot of people opposed the Jeff/Annie arc lately.
the finale is good for annie. she grown up mature and it was nice that jeff didnt holding her back.
but i cant help to feel sorry for jeff. he sad and drunk all the season 6 since he tried to let her go after he realized he do love her in s5 finale. i really hope they will be end up together in the right time after annie settle with her life
Jeff's story hit me particularly hard because of some of the parallels between our lives. University for me is where I found myself and finally started to feel happy with life. As the four years came close to an end things started to become a little more difficult as friends and acquaintances started to leave earlier for various reasons. When it was finally my time to leave the safety of school. I wanted to think of excuses to stay like do a masters but I knew it wouldn't really be the same since most the people I knew would be gone at that point. It was a difficult transition for me to the real world but I will say that I have overcome that and have settled happily into my next chapter of my life.
That's why I liked Jeff's story because he found his happiness at Greendale but it was also a crutch for him and he was scared he couldn't be happy without greendale or if his friends weren't there with him.
I did wish that gave Jeff more closure though and have him learn not to depend on the safety net that is Greendale.
I really enjoy the last two seasons, but you make some reeeeally good points, particularly Jeff being a good lawyer/not caring about teaching. How they ended Jeff with the feeling of “Everyone you care about will leave, things will change...but you’ll be ok” always hit me the wrong way. It’s real, but it’s a downer...
You have to wonder, if Harmon didn’t leave and then come back, would season 4-6 would have still gone the same route (With or without the cast departures.)
Also after rewatching season 5 it always bugged me that the case against Greendale just kinda went away after “Repilot”...
literally at minute 3 the chalkboard in the back says "six seasons and a movie"
When I first started watching season 5 I thought that the show would go the "Jeff saves Greendale from lawsuit." Kinda bummed out it didn't go that way, but I honestly think what we got wasn't bad. I just kinda wished Troy and Shirley came back to fill in the people who left (except for Pierce because he is dead, but even his weird hologram thing could be a stand-in).
Just throwing this out there, but what if the Dean after seeing how Jeff had failed as a self-practicing lawyer decided to hire him on retainer for the school when it was getting sued, and then the Dean slowly ropes Jeff into becoming their law teacher as he successfully defends the school over and over
I remember dan harmon said that the original plan before he left the show was to slowly start moving the study group out of greendale around s4 so that by the time they got to seasons 5 and 6, the story wouldn't depend on them being students there. I can see how with the way things went, the new creators of s4 just didn't have the same vision, and they didn't set up any of that, so dan was kinda stuck having them at greendale still when he came back for s5 (which I agree doesn't work at all imo). It sucks and I always wonder where this show could have gone and how it would have evolved if dan hadn't left for a season.
Truth!! I appreciated what we got with the last few seasons, even though it wasn’t the best. That’s part of what I’ve always loved about community is it’s the underdog. #sixseasonsandamovie
“If you love something, set it free. If it comes back, it was, and always will be yours. If it never returns, it was never yours to begin with.”
#andamovie
Could not disagree more with a lot of things said in this video.
1. The quality dips in season 4. But to say that it never reaches the heights of seasons 1-3 again is objectively untrue. Season 5 is widely rated better than season 1. Also, the best episodes of 5&6 are some of the best in the whole series. Just because there are some episodes that are below average does not mean that those terrific episodes are somehow made worse by their surroundings.
2. To say that it's 'just not right' that the characters return to Greendale often irks me as an argument. Like if we can accept that a college can descend into a campus-wide pillow fight, how come we draw the line of reality at students returning to renew their education? To be put off by the lack of reality in a sitcom that is not grounded in reality is stupid.
3. The Jeff Winger transformation was obviously intentional and the fact that he doesn't have a 'happily ever after' speaks volumes about his character. He puts up the facade of not caring, but at the end of the series we realise that it's actually him who cares the most. A sad ending is not a bad ending, and the fact that Community often goes against classic expectations (in this case a nice happy ending where they all ride off into the sunset together) proves that the finale was the most fitting ending and pulls it off in classic Community style. I have not seen a better finale in a sitcom.
4. In keeping with the above topic, the fact that Annie and Jeff never got together is another thing that toys with our expectations in a good way. Throughout the series we are led to believe that they will end up together in some form but are also given a number of indications that it won't work. Annie needs to go off and live her life, whereas Jeff is at an age where he needs to start settling down. The fact that they seem perfect for each other, but can't be together is like a tragic love story that loses all of its effect if they are forced together at the end of the series.
Counter; a sad ending absolutely IS a bad ending. I'm not watching media to be reminded about how shitty real life can be, nor do I want to invest my time into absorbing six seasons of character development just to watch it all get shit on within the last season.
@@ffxidrgblu counter counter; Yes some people have different tastes and enjoy a show that will make them feel good throughout. I would recommend Friends or something similar that is just laugh out loud, on the surface humour for that. What makes Community great is it isn't afraid to go against the grain and tug on the heart strings every so often. It isn't a show that is the best for its laughter value. It is the best for its clever writing and realistic characters.
Also, the character development is definitely not "shit on" in the finale. If anything having a happy ending is what would have 'shit on' the entire development of the series. The arc of each character perfectly followed through to a logical end, without a forced 'happily ever after'.
@@cooperg387 my problem with the ending and Seasons 5 and 6 altogether, and it's reflected in your opinion here, is that contrary to what some people now believe Community was not always this bastion of "stark reality". The show's overall tone in the first three seasons was overall hopeful, and positive. It was when Dan came back for S5, bitter and angry that the tone of the show changed to cynical and negative. I don't expect rainbows and butterflies, but there were several story arcs that were left unresolved or poorly serviced. Jeff remaining stuck in a job he hates, with no direction as a functioning alcoholic is just a bad ending, there's no talking your way around that IMO. Britta was also bungled by the end of S6, wish the video had touched on that too.
@@ffxidrgblu I understand your point. The core of our disagreement likely just lies in the fact that I find the sadness of the characters to be an enjoyable aspect of the show whereas you don't. Often characters can also serve as people to laugh at rather than with (take pierce for example).
As far as Harmon coming back and making the show a bit bleaker, I'd have to say that it was more just a decision that was necessary to keep the characters at Greendale for a plausible reason. Could they have done the lawsuit reason that the video suggests? Possibly, but I think Jeff's skills as a lawyer were sharpened by his killer instinct and unfeeling nature. A nature that changed because of his time at Greendale meaning teaching was his only option.
I guess seasons 1-3 might have been more hopeful but I wouldn't say there's a huge difference. I'd direct your attention back to Mixology Certification (season 2) for a great example of how the show dealt with the realness of the characters and how it can succeed through some pretty depressing themes.
I think the writer's intentionally made Jeff's ending kind of tragic. Its like, once you get into Greendale, you can't escape it (which sounds like a horror movie plot to be honest). We see multiple people like this in the show, like Pierce continuously studying in the school or the criminology professor, or even Chang. Jeff also became trapped in that circle, becoming dependent on the place because he thinks he has no value outside of it.
AND for Jeff and his career, I think the repilot pretty much explains himself why he would stay and teach. The previous four seasons laid grounds on Jeff on progress from being a heartless lawyer who only cares about himself to a more caring and grown human being. It suggests that Jeff, after his days in Greendale, grows as a person, he fails to become the cold and selfish man who gave him a promising legal career. He faces obstacles as he tries to use the talent to defend the powerless, feeling the tension between the cold world outside and being a Greendale-raised warm person. Though he still has flaws (such as being lazy), Jeff accepts that he is a broken person and has to change.
I mean a happy ending would be a feel-good ending for many viewers who don't care much but only want to watch tv and cast away. But for others, and thousands of community fans, they sure know the growth of the study group is a great deal to the show and would not like them to stick back to the people they used to be before Greendale. That is what I call the "Greendale Effect".
Jeff didn’t like being a lawyer exactly, he liked the life of luxury, parties and women that came with it and the fact he could do it by not putting any actual effort. If he really liked being a lawyer he would have gone to an actual University, studied really hard and tried to keep himself immersed in the world of law. Instead he goes to the quickest, cheapest, easiest school because what he really wanted was to live a luxury life again as quick as possible. Making him a successful lawyer again after 4 years of slacking off and taking blow classes would have been the “best” for Jeff but thats not real life and I appreciate Community for being sensible in that sense.
I understand your point but frankly I disagree. Jeff was able to fake being a lawyer in a prominent (presumably) Denver firm for SEVEN YEARS. That’s crazy! Law is incredibly complex and even if he was only a trial lawyer, leaving all the paperwork to a lawyer behind the scenes (which is a thing) he would still need to understand Legalese. On top of that, I’d like to point out that Jeff is a MOMMAS BOY ATTENTION WHORE! If he can put in minimal effort using his brain that seems to be built for debate/law, and receive abundant rewards, that’s gonna feed his soul! Also I’m sorry but in the entire state of Colorado there where no cases for an entire summer where some low income person was subjected to abuse by a larger power and DIDNT want to take advantage of a pro bono lawyer?!!! I don’t think so. I get that Harmon and Co. had to deal with the supposed mistakes of season 4 but I really dislike this idea that Jeff couldn’t hack it as a good guy lawyer. That’s the ending for Jeff, he’s absorbed in working for the little guy, feeding his ego in a healthy way while Annie is making her way towards being an FBI agent and then we have some Law & Order shit happening between them. Abed goes to Hollywood and makes it but ofc there are hills and valleys. Shirley has an affair with the detective she spun off with, Britta is a daytime Zoom therapist nighttime bartender (eventually becomes partner in the bar, maybe another group member invests? LeVar Burton?), Troy uses the money from Pierce’s will to create a plumbing academy or something and eventually he’s a major shareholder in Abed’s production co. In a perfect world he and Britta would get back together but maybe that’s a little too sitcom-ish.
Really enjoyed the video but two things:
1) I love season 5 to death (it has my favorite community episode in it, favorite cold open and some of my favorite character moments) so I’m glad they didn’t stop after season 4.
2) I’m a huge Annie and Jeff shipper but I’m happy that they didn’t fully end up together at the end. I like that they realize that they are in two different places in their lives and that right at that current moment they can’t be in a relationship together but maybe they could in the future(the hypothetical season 7/movie). They still admit they love each other but know nows not the right time. It feels realistic and I like that Jeff is able to let her go, let his friend group grow and find who they are especially since he was so adamant in the first few seasons that the group needed him when in reality it was the other way around.
I feel like Jeff/Annie would’ve ended up being a couple at the end of the movie if they ever did it.
I always thought Britta deserved a better ending. Especially after season 4 where they turned her into an absolute brainless mess. She was such a fun, complex character and they completely stripped her of that and reduced her down to nothing but a stupid blonde fake feminist.
Also I accept that its canon but I always hated Annie and Jeff as a couple. The age difference makes me so uncomfortable and I always found it a little predatory. That's also a little personal maybe because Jeff is only like 3 years younger than my dad was when I we meet Annie at 18 😅
I think Jeff not being a lawyer at the shows his growth over the series ngl
Jeff: No call backs
But he didn’t grow he just ignores his job and is unmotivated it’s like he lost his best quality but kept his worst
I think the ending that you’ve suggested is really good in terms of character arc for Jeff as him settling for a job as teacher really doesn’t suit him, however for Jeff and Annie I don’t think they should ultimately end up together, I think they should’ve tried a relationship in season 6 after Jeff realised his feelings in the s5 finale and developed the relationship up until the last episode when Jeff then realises he has to let her go, I think this still gives the bittersweet ending but with more of a payoff for their arc through the show
My proposal for the formation of the Save Greendale Committee (cribbing the first from you)
1. Jeff defects to defend Greendale
2. Turns out Annie is an intern at his new firm
3. A visiting Abed decides to make a documentary about the trial
ahh yes. that could work
this video pretty much nails the main issues with the ending seasons of the show. Jeff ends season 6 with nothing, he's miserable teaching law at Greendale and the woman he truly loves gets on a plane and leaves. As the "main character", you are just left not feeling very hopefully for his future at all. Thankfully we have confirmation on the movie coming, where we can tie up some loose ends and get some closure. At least something better than being stuck in a deadend job and alone.
They really suffered after losing Pierce, Troy, and Shirley. Replacing the characters didn’t help either
Shirley's Absence Didn't Had Big Effect. Pierce Leaving Left Dent on The Show. And Troy Leaving Killed The Heart of The Show.
Couldn't help it. Chevy was banned from the set during season 4, Donald has his personal issues at the time, and Yvette had a family emergency.
@@aertnadle2466 I know they couldn't help it but it really sucks that it happened
I agree that losing 3/4 of the Greendale Seven was rough, but I loved the "replacements", duncan, hickey, elroy were all great, and frankie's one of my favorites from the whole show
U right when Those three it died and the humor wasn’t that great I would have keep them three for 5,6 and Chang side character
Whether or not I agree with your suggestions is irrelevant, this was a well put together video. Wel done my friend. I do agree, but again, would have liked and watched to the end regardless.
"The Annie of it all"
thank you good sir!!
I really like how respectful you handled the original writing. It’s very hard to come with things. And it’s not like they totally butchered the show. Great points and great video, thank you
I love the change that makes Jeff the head lawyer of Greendale, but save the Annie return for the movie.
i like that the ending acknowledged the love between Annie and Jeff without being a perfect sugar sweet romance. it was bittersweet but realistic, as in life sometimes even people caring for each other can't be together. but also i really need a movie in which they're finally together because come on, they're PERFECT together.
It for sure feels like they ended the season with the clear mindset the movie would finish out key storyline’s (mainly Jeff’s).
The reason why Jeff failed as a lawyer is because he went pro bono and therefore made no money
He could've been a public defendant.
Nahom Kebede he said at the beginning of the episode that he went pro bono and therefore made no money
Ok here's mine: I like the ending we got so I would only chang a couple things.
1. Jeff and Britta get together (I've always thought they were better for each other)
2. (They don't have to go full office and show it) but Abed marries Rachel.
3. Craig finally gets elected for a school board position.
4. Something with Duncan. (He was one of my favs and I wish we got some closure on him.)
5. I LOVE the finale end card, but It could've been better.
6. Jeff learns to love teaching (duh-doy)
7. Keep Annie's plot
8. Give Shirley some closure. Like Andre coming back or something like that.
9. Anything with Troy.
10. Give us a movie....
thats a weird interesting topic to step in. I guess because its my favourite tv show, I've never thought of a different ending, or that the current one is bad. It sure does need a movie tho
If I were to “rewrite” the last two seasons, I would keep Jeff as a teacher (it was foreshadowed when they revealed Jeff’s degree was in education) but make it so Jeff actually grows to like his job and actually learns law. Jeff seemed to have grown too much of a heart to go back to the way he was before, so I think he would either develop a real passion for teaching and stay there or maybe defend Greendale or one person in a case and realizes there’s a noble side to law that makes him feel more whole than the kind he practiced before. It could also help strengthen his relationship with Annie as she would be holding him accountable and they would study together. They started out doing this and it seemed like that’s where it was going, but then Jeff just gave up, sort of saying that he never really changed.
I think season 5 is underrated. I really don't like season 6 though
omg I have the opposite opinion lmao
Yes. I also felt that Jeff should’ve returned to his life as a successful lawyer, this time a legit one.
Maybe it’s Dan Harmon’s way of telling us that sometimes in life, people don’t achieve their goals. But in Jeff’s case, that’s his entire driving force & motivation for joining Greendale in the first place. He put himself through 4 years of school in a place he hates. If he had to give up law, he’d just quit when he got disbarred for having a fake degree. His life, desire & skills as a lawyer were consistently shown throughout the series.
Jeff & Annie are 25 & 40 respectively. And they met when she was 18. So it’s a little bit creepy. And the show wanted to steer clear of sending that message. Jeff felt like he’d hold Annie back.
I just finished my first run of Community. It's actually a pretty pleasant binge over a week or two with the shorter episode lengths, which would normally be a downside for me, but I feel like it's probably for the best because while some of the episodes have great premises, and are absolutely hilarious, sometimes too much of it can just feel kind of trope after a while. So having it's episode, then doing something different keeps things fresh, atleast to some degree.
With that being said, I don't get the hate for season 4. I've always heard that 4 was just garbage, how it was a 'gas leak year', or whatever. And it's referenced in the show constantly in the seasons after. But honestly, I didn't really mind season 4. I mean, season three kind of went off the rails near the end, however fun it was. Season four wasn't my favorite, but I wouldn't call it the 'worst' either tbh. Really, if we had more 'closure' in S4, and it didn't just feel like another end to a season where we know we'll be coming back 'next year', even if I saw it at release, if the 'end' had a bit more closure for all of the characters and didn't feel almost kind of rushed and non-important, I'd love to just have my four season binge. But even in the moment it just didn't really feel like anything was changing. Season 5/6 had some moments, I had some good laughs. But at the same time, it just felt different. More so than season 4 even. The shots just felt less inspired, the writing was more.. unoriginal, maybe? Like the writers had done everything they could think of to blend with 'normal' day to day student life. So, it just felt more like students getting into hijinks than the kind of 'out there, jumping the shark' stories that blended with it before in previous seasons. It felt more like a student council meeting where "this week we have to deal with this problem" rather than "here is the crazy episodic story this week that also kind of fits with our ongoing stories". It just lost a lot of it's charm for me for the most part, especially after Troy left. Without Troy, Abed is just kind of the crazy guy all the other characters saw him as. So, you lose a good portion of that blend between the 'normal' and 'crazy antics'. And after realizing that the ship was supposed to be between Annie and Jeff, and after accepting that in the kind of random start of it in the finale of S1, I kind of expected they might do something with it. Then S2 came and went, and S3. And S4. They had there cutsie moments, but nothing really happened. Then in the final two seasons they make note of it more, outright calling it several times. But then they make the age difference that makes their potential relationship offputting to some even more so when they age up Jeff by half a decade or more than everyone assumed. They went out of their way to do that. And then continued to do the 'will they, won't they, are they jelous' stiche. And then kind of nowhere in the end, they bring up their potential relationship again, but then don't really do anything with it. Which is kind of baffling really. I can only imagine what long term fans that watched it as it released feel about it. It just felt like the writers just didn't know what else to do after S4, but instead of leaving it with some sort of finality, they continued it despite the characters not even being students at the school anymore besides a few episodes in S5. It just really made me wonder what the writers were trying to do, or what they wanted fans to think. Every decision they either set up, or made, just seemed to become reversed or irrelevant after some time. So, there wasn't much of any closure on anything.
That being said, I'm really happy I gave the series a chance, out of nowhere. I always heard good things about it, but didn't really know much of anything about it. And I will probably rebinge the series many times to come in the near future and going forward. But unfortunately, I don't know if I can do a full run, at least with satisfaction, knowing how it ends in retrospect. Atleast up until now I figured, "Well, surely the writers will make things a bit more compelling and give us a satisfactory conclusion in the next couple of episodes, right?" But in retrospect, I'm more confused than disappointed, and more disappointed than I feel any closure.
Not going to lie though in retrospect that muppet episode was pretty weird. I had a few laughs, but I will agree that not all of S4 was "great" or anything. That one was bizarre.
I like the final episode, the meta 😢cliffhanger of if we should have a season 7 or a movie being talked about by the characters like they’re the writers of the show is not only funny, but when the show makes its grand exit, Jeff and Annie’s goodbye is a perfect flip of season 1’s finale, and it casually makes me the viewer want the exact opposite of what I hated from the season 1 finale, but with season 6’a shaky up and down run, the moment in the finale made me enjoy what we received for all of the characters
I hope most of this is resolved If and when we get the movie. I could definitely see it having a subplot about Jeff and Annie’s relationship
I like your ideas on the ending, and the points you made about Jeff and Annie.
Things I would have done (with hindsight, of course):
Start season 5 as you describe, with Jeff being successful at law again but the threat of a lawsuit against Greendale potentially invalidating his credentials (bonus points if the plaintiff is Star Burns). The others (minus Pierce, assuming we still have to deal with Chevy Chase leaving) return as witnesses and/or advocates/part of the Save Greendale Committee. Season 5 pans out about as expected, but with some extra tidbits here and there dedicated to building the case. The finale ends on a cliffhanger (because they weren't sure if more seasons would follow) with the group leaving campus for the showdown in court.
Assuming season 6 happens, begin with the start of the trial. Also assume Shirley has stayed. Bring in Paget Brewster as the counsel for the prosecution. Bring in Keith David as the developer of an accountant software package who worked with Greendale in the past and can attest to their accreditation/financial practices. Protract the trial over a few episodes that culminate with the lawsuit succeeding. Spend an episode dwelling on the group reflecting on their failure before hope comes again with the revelation that the plaintiff's degree was falsified, much like Jeff's, and that the original lawsuit is baseless. The remainder of the season is a caper to prove this.
At season's end, when they succeed, Abed leaves for Hollywood. Shirley's business finds a second life. Britta doubles down on psychology and actually goes back to a different school for a Master's. Annie leaves for DC, working for the FBI. Jeff is planning on going back to his practice, but the show ends with him driving Annie to the airport. They share a moment, she goes through security. Jeff thinks for a bit, and the camera shows his gaze moving to the ticketing counter. Leave it ambiguous.
...
Then there's the movie.
Assume that after season 6, it still hasn't been made. COVID and everything still happen. Don't focus the movie on Jeff - focus it on Troy. He is finally back from his trek with Levar Burton, and boy does he have stories to tell! He shows up at Greendale to find...everyone gone. Greendale campus is closed down, and the school has switched to online courses. However, the Dean does still work there, and gives him Shirley's contact info, as she's the only one of the old crowd still local. He also finds out about COVID for the first time, and realizes his shares in Hawthorne Moist Towlettes have skyrocketed in value, making his bequeathal even more valuable. The catch: someone has stolen them from him. Hawthorne's lawyers have decided to take that money for themselves, using the technicality that Troy never succeeded in sailing the Childish Tycoon as dictated by the will. Unfortunately, Levar Burton went missing after he and Troy were separated in Hong Kong by a deluge of Skittles from an unfortunate traffic accident. To prove his right to the inheritance, Troy must rally the group again. Only the affidavits of everyone at the table who was polygraphed will serve as adequate testimony!
I think the finale episode is damn near perfect but it just didn’t feel the same with the recent drop in quality
I know this video is three years old, but I 100% agree with everything you are saying! I've been arguing the points you make here for years whenever I end up discussing Community with people, and it is nice to know I'm not alone there.
I think that maybe the movie will be like a “high school reunion” moment with all the original cast+Season 5/6 (Except Pierce) and then we see that story with Annie and Jeff
I wish Chevy never went crazy ;-;
If we get that movie one of the scenes HAS to be troy sailing into harbour on his boat and Abed running up to him and doing their handshake before going to a big hug. The movie has needs trobed to be canon, this is non-negotiable
if the movie DIDN'T include troy and abed doing the handshake... then what would even be the point??
The ending made me cry, it was so sad...
Props for pointing out that hindsight is 20/20 and that's it's easier to fix what is already there as opposed to creating it out of thin air.
Loved your video. Well done.
I hate how the college campus got continuously distilled down to just the key characters throughout the series. I shrunk the scale of the setting and made it feel more and more overly-intimate to a fault instead of panning out on the show’s world building.
I agree on jeff not being a bad lawyer but the rest I am fine with. Community did something that's really realistic it's a undifinitive ending it leaves a hole in your life as in theirs, an uncertainty about the future.
this makes sense
Wtf? Community's ending is perfect, it goes balls deep on Jeff's fear of abandonment and having to accept change
Thank you
This video is amazing and your hypothetical works perfectly but I heavily disagree with what you believe about Annie and Jeff, I feel like Annie is more of a reminder to Jeff that he won't always be young, hence why him lying about his age was an issue. I think Jeff works as a reminder to Annie that she's growing up. At the end of the day they're both polar opposites which is why their on and off is more of a learning experience for both characters.
That's all I gotta say, keep up the amazing work. You're highly underrated man
Enjoyed the video. I actually agree with your points, so I don't have much to say that would challenge your video. What I do have to say is really more towards the people who think Jeff and Annie should not have ended up together, specifically those who think Jeff was grooming Annie. Jeff and Annie's relationship started with Jeff rejecting Annie, because I think he himself wanted to be with someone so young, didn't want to seem manipulative to a weak mind, and in the end, didn't want to seem like a groomer. In fact, Jeff thought the relationship he was bound for was one with Britta, where we seem him falling into the "wedding trap," if you will, not once but twice with her. I think their relationship's growth very important and is also important to their own personal growth. In the end, they seem to have to need to end up together, not because he was manipulating her, but because they have chemistry, they genuinely love each other, and they actually might see a future with the other
For real though, I really love this hypothetical ending 😍 the closure and hope part ties everything together nicely 👏
My biggest issue with the ending is how the characters got so close as a family and then just left each other, like you can still keep in touch, phones exist, there doesn't need to be an ending to the group, I have gamenight every 2 weeks with my friends from highschool, like yeah you can't see each other everyday but that doesn't mean you should just split, they went through so much together they're basically a family
I think...and take this lightly... i think the writers did this plot gap to make the movie more interesting to watch so that people will watch it more eagerly, they were implying there will be a movie from the very first season and I think they just hit a little bumb in production and will be making a movie and millions of people will come to watch it in hopes to fill the plot holes... just my speculation though :p
Hey man, I really appreciate that you opened up saying it's way easier to say "here's how it should have gone" than actually writing it in the first place. But I think you've really missed the mark as far as Jeff is concerned, and that the way you'd portray it might at best be marginally more satisfying in the moment, but far less valid as an ending for the characters and way more forgettable. Also while seasons 5 and 6 are a little more flaky as far as the average quality of the episodes go, I think it still peaks just as high. Ass crack bandit, polygraph test, Dean in VR, and I think modern espionage was about the best way to have one more paintball episode. Community just wasn't really the kind of show that could stay as strong forever, no matter what would've happened with Harmon I think.
But to Jeff. I feel like you don't get how Greendale has changed him. He's kind of an asshole manipulator when he comes in, it's how he's operated as a lawyer. Over the seasons he starts buying into the silliness of Greendale, even beyond exploiting it for his own gain. but more than that he learns to get over himself. He's not special, he's actually pretty broken inside from the way he's lived, and going back to the old way won't change anything in that regard. Aside from that, he's entered his 40's. Jeff is coming to the realization that maybe he just doesn't want to go back to being a lonely smug asshole.
And that's also why he really shouldn't end up with Annie. Or maybe it's rather that Annie shouldn't end up with him. Yes, they've complemented each other perfectly, and by the end of the show the age gap is probably less of a deal than it was before, but where does it leave both of our characters? Annie doesn't get to strike out on her own? And Jeff can't just let a 25-year old live her life? That would be rather depressing in my view, more a sign of arrested development and a failure to let go than a glorious romance.
Now I don't think they handled Jeff perfectly. We know how much of a great manipulator he is even when using it for a good cause, so him failing as a lawyer felt a little weird. They could've come up with some other contrivance to take the teaching job, maybe under a temporary pretext. But as for the purpose behind that change, I feel like it makes perfect sense. The Jeff winger in season 1 who cared too much about keeping up appearances, such as his car and status, just isn't the same Jeff Winger who has spent years doing stupid shit and learning that he's happier that way. It's why the final development in his character is learning that even in his new life people will leave, that the study group will continue to fall apart. And that that's fine, that he'll be fine even though he's more vulnerable now.
Basically what I'm saying is that if Jeff were to return to being a lawyer and get together with Annie, I highly expect it to feel like character regression rather than any sort of progress on Jeff's part. And for Annie it'd just be a little sad.
i can see what you're saying. so maybe Jeff doesn't have to return to being a lawyer, but he could start doing something that he likes or is at least good at.
if they had shown that he enjoyed teaching law, and was having an impact on his students (like they do briefly in that episode where jeff teaches his class how to argue with annie) then I would be happy with his ending as a teacher.
i don't know, theres just something about it that feels off to me. like Jeff can't move on from greendale, even after most of his friends have.
thanks for the comment though, very well put!
@@never.nothing The big joke about him failing as a lawyer on his own it that there's no money as an honest lawyer. That's all it really was. But you also ignore the fact that Jeff never really was a lawyer, didn't really want to be one and just didn't have what it takes knowledge and credentials wise. Otherwise, he would have gone to a real law school and got a real law degree. There are also glimpses of him coming to the realization that he really is good at teaching and enjoys it just as you say, so maybe that's what's best for him at the end of the show. Sometimes people get left behind. Hell, I've been left behind. People get left behind. They choose to stay. Doesn't mean my life ended. It just went a different way. Jeff's life is going to continue. He's going to meet new people. He's going to make a difference for Greendale and his students. Sounds good to me.
As for Annie, It would have been super depressing if she'd ended up with a 40 something Greendale teacher at her age and stage in career. Ugh.
I completely agree with Jeff and Ani balancing each other out and getting together at the end that would be my dream. If there is a community movie which yes we will riot if there is not, but if there is a movie I would love to see them together.
Ooof, as someone who had to settle for being a teacher, jeff's ending hit me hard. i hated it.
haha aint nothing wrong with being a teacher!! it just doesn't fit jeff very well imo
S4 is only the worse in that it had WAY too many subplots that never got enough light and they sincerely needed at least the regular amount of episodes (23+) to properly tell the entire intended story.
I actually loved the season 4 ending bc it provides both closure and hope. Even if it was rushed, everyone graduates and moves on. And at the same time, I may be misreading, but everyone had been a part of each other's personal lives (family gatherings and holiday celebrations) and I just assumed that would continue.
Also I liked the Annie/Jeff ending bc even though they did have chemistry, they did have codependency issues, as pointed out by Frankie. Annie gets to pursue her dreams, and Jeff lets go.
The thing that really bothered me about the last few seasons is that the character growth felt stagnant, or at least repetitive.
I think your whole problem with Jeff and Annie not being a thing highlights a problem that plagued the show, that being missed potential. There have been plenty of plot points that could’ve made for good episodes that never go anywhere like Troy moving in with Pierce, Shirley’s ex and his role as the normal one, or Annie’s various crushes on different characters
Nah, bruh the actual ending was perfect. Community was never about fairy tale endings. It ended with Jeff learning to accept were he was. He learned that greendale is where he belongs.
Also I wish Jeff excelled as a teacher
The show hinted at him becoming passionate about teaching but towards the end he just became a barely present teacher who drinks
I wish they either highlighted that more or showed Jeff become happy as a teacher