Should We All Be Vegan? | Interview with Peter Singer
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 มิ.ย. 2024
- Should we all be vegan or vegetarian? Does climate change require a new relationship to nature and non-human animals?
And will Covid-19 be the moment when we realise industrial farming carries devastating, unacceptable risks? Aaron Bastani speaks to author of 'Animal Liberation' and professor of Bioethics at Princeton University Peter Singer.
0:00 - Introduction
0:23 - Genesis…
2:10 - Should we all be vegan?
3:43 - Animal liberation and human liberation
7:45 - Is owning pets ethical?
12:21 - Are human beings more important than animals?
14:45 - Does the animal rights argument diminish rights to certain human beings?
17:23 - The ethics and scientific value of animal testing.
29:36 - The renaissance and animal rights.
36:46 - The animal liberation movement.
39:20 - Climate movement and Covid-19 - resurgence in veganism?
46:30 - Utilitarianism and human disability - Peter Singer’s views.
52:29 - Final thoughts.
Following the publication of this video, which led to complaints from within the disability rights movement and hurt among disabled viewers, Novara Media entered into a constructive dialogue with Disabled People Against Cuts about these concerns and how we can improve our coverage of disability issues more broadly.
As we stated at the time, Peter Singer's views on disability are not those of Novara Media, and we are committed to doing better in terms of commissioning and publishing on disability. Details of our dialogue with DPAC and our proposed actions can be found here: novara.media/dpac
We take onboard the criticisms both of the interview itself and the way the topics of disability and disabled infanticide were raised and framed within the interview, and accept we didn’t sufficiently challenge Singer’s views. We fully intend to learn from the feedback we’ve received and it will inform our future editorial decisions.
We considered whether to remove the interview or edit it to remove the section where Singer’s positions on disability are raised, however it has been our policy in the past to both make our mistakes and do our learning in public. As such, we are leaving the video up with this statement as an instruction to our audience and have published an article responding to Singer's positions on disabled people: novaramedia.com/2021/11/18/so...
Once again we acknowledge the hurt this interview caused to disabled people and we're grateful to all the disability activists who engaged with us constructively and made it possible for us to improve.
For recent coverage on disability at Novara Media see our focus series here: novaramedia.com/focus/disabil...
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Over the last few days we have been made aware of complaints and concerns arising from our decision to conduct and publish an interview with the philosopher Peter Singer.
Peter Singer's views on disability are not those of Novara Media, and we want people to know that we have not been inactive since concerns have been raised. We are currently discussing the matter in line with our internal processes as a matter of priority, as well as reaching out to activists within the disabled people's movement.
We take the fact that we have caused hurt to disabled people very seriously, and we acknowledge that criticisms of the decision to air this interview were made in good faith, and sit within a wider context of both Novara Media's shortcomings on commissioning and publishing content on disability and the heinous assaults which have been waged against disabled people over the course of the pandemic.
We are keen to open a constructive dialogue about how we can do better and welcome recommendations.
@@Talentedtadpole Saying that disabled babies should be euthanised is NOT eugenics. Euthanasia by definition is for the benefit of the person dying: eugenics is for the "benefit" of society. Singer's utilitarianism is indefensible to me, but I don't believe in censoring people who have a different moral argument to mine.
@@JarryOtoole "a later abortion"? Is child murder now to be referred to as "a later abortion"? How utterly offensive. The reason the interview needs to be removed is because (a) Peter Singer forfeits his right to a platform on veganism and animal rights when he also expounds such morally repugnant views on the human right to life and (b) because Aaron offers zero pushback on the abhorrent views he solicits from Singer on disability at the end of the interview. Those views are expounded on and left hanging there, unchallenged, as though they are acceptable. That was the worst thing about it.
We live in a society where disability hate crimes go unpunished, the government punishes people with disabilities through its hostile social security policies, and on and on. We do not need Novara Media amplifying voices like these. I am beyond disappointed. I am gutted. Is there nothing we can have without it being ruined? I've cancelled my subscription. Saddened beyond belief.
I agree that the lack of any sort of pushback or clarifying statement (on behalf of Novara) following the views Peter expressed was a really poor judgement and/or complete lack of prep on Aaron's part - not giving them excuses; it was bad. I feel that as Novara continues its expansion it could really do with hiring staff who have backgrounds in disability studies i.e. to better promote the many injustices/struggles the group is subject to (we need more solidarity). The disabled community and its allies basically have no voice within the mainstream media, so I can truly understand how much of a sting it would have been to find a progressive organisation allowing Singer to spout his unempirical (and equally unethical) viewpoints unimpeded. Paradoxically he believes that all animals should have the right to live long (abuse-free) lives, regardless of capacity or cognitive ability, but is somehow able to draw an arbitrary line in the sand on the same point for humans. We know that when society is designed in the right way, with the right kind of supports in place, studies looking at "quality of life assessments" (for those with disabilities) show us that the differences with "able-bodied" people are (and should be) minimal. Facts like these should have fronted the retort; is what Singer is advocating for truly an "alleviation of suffering" or simply a modern repackaging of the age old idea that disabled people are a burden on society which it shouldn't bother expending resources on?
Tfw you’re a ‘leftist’ but take the same accountability approach as any given generic neoliberal corporation
@@n33wom singer also claims that animals have no interest in continuing to live and as long as they had a decent life, it's okay to kill and eat them which to me makes no sense at all. of course they want to live and not be killed and we have no right to harm then unnecessarily, just for mere palate pleasure. To say that a sentient being has no interest in continuing to live is like saying that a being with eyes has no interest in continuing to see. also when he claims that it's okay for people with little money to buy cheap meat from factory farms because they have to eat; rice, beans, legumes and vegetables are among the cheapest most available foods......; but he has to say that because he himself "enjoys" animal products. this argument again is so lame and inconsistent....
this whole interview was just scratching surfaces of otherwise very deep and interesting issues, it was like drinking tea that is neither hot or cold......very disappointing indeed
Vegan for 4 1/2 years eating mainly whole foods with the occasional processed 'treats', early fifties, no ailments at all, no meds, fitter, stronger, healthier and happier than I've ever been, and no longer suffering from the cognitive dissonance I used to when I was against animal abuse and suffering, yet would see it on my plate every single day.
you speak me from the heart! going vegan was the best decision of my life!
It’s two years for me, although I have been heading towards veganism for about seven or eight years.
The whole thing is empowering.
Great to see veganism and animal rights being discussed and promoted by left media (as it should be) - thanks a lot Aaron!
He spoke to Earthling Ed quite recently about the same thing. It’s well worth a viewing.
it should be promoted by ALL media... by everyone, not just by the lefties. Veganism is FOR EVERYONE. Be vegan or be a disgusting flesh ghoul.
Peter Singer thinks bestiality is ethical. Literally anybody else would be a better candidate to make this case.
@@gaynebula6439 I doubt that assertion !
Really impressed with this NM. Was a bit disappointed after the 100k q&a episode when all participants laughed & joked about why they weren't vegan. Glad you have the open mind to invite someone as good as Singer on to talk about it.
It's shamelessly morally inconsistent - call them out and all you get is a shrug of the shoulders. To me, that demonstrates that a lot of very loud voices on "the left" don't actually have the "compassion" that they pretend to because compassion is not a tap that you can turn of. Rather I think often they get involved social justice either (at worst) as a badge of identity or (at best) as a purely intellectual exercise in challenging the prevailing social mores.
It's because they are not enlightened, they just have a left wing identity. Need to read some Ram Dass
I've Tweeted Ash Sarkar about her advocacy of eating animal body parts and not got a response. Also, in the COVID context, the animal death industry is the major factor...and continues to be so with future zoonotic transmission of, for example, bird flu to humans...happening now in the Russian Federation among other places. But largely ignored by mainstream media sources. And again, with catastrophic climate breakdown and biodiversity extermination, the animal death industry is a major cause.
I swear Ash had vegan in her Twitter bio for a while... smh
the smartest people become so dumb and dishonest sounding when they try to explain why it's okay to kill and eat animals. it would be really funny if it weren't so sad.....; truth is, there is no logical argument against veganism....
Glad this is being discussed 🙌 Before this I felt like the topic had been somewhat neglected on NM
Yes, because it would cause the NM team to concede their own hypocrisy. Anybody who professes to "care" about minority groups on the other side of the world and yet has no qualms whatsoever about industrial cruelty to animals is merely posturing. If you tolerate the idea that one species is subservient to another, then from then it becomes a matter of degree before you have to apply that logic within humanity.
@@freebornaiden7666 exactly, one time Ash was joking about getting chicken. Do they not see the irony?
The biggest impact we can have is to go vegan.
@@whburton7 LOL. She's all over the place. Last week she was "joking" about not letting anti-vaxxers into pubs until "she realised a lot of them are from ethnic minorities". So try this on, its OK to discriminate against white middle class anti-vaxers but not ones from ethnic minorities. I like Novara, but they really need need a good Psychedelic session.
Yeah, I remember a while ago this cropped up, when the team were all together and taking questions. I cringed, because I knew what was coming and I hate the expression but it's an undeniable one: they all cracked out the "shit-eating smiles" - something that people do when they have the brains to know that they're wrong ... but - what the hell - they're gonna try and justify being wrong anyway.
Saying animals are slaves isnt meant to bring down human slave to the level of animals, its meant to bring up animals to a level of moral consideration. People can value humans above animals, but this isnt justification for immoral treatment towards them. Just how most people would agree hurting a child is worse than hurting an adult, it doesnt mean hurting an adult is acceptable
Also, please stop conflating veganism with vegetarianism. Vegetarians still contribute to thousands of deaths in the egg and milk industries (male chicks and calves are murdered). Vegetarianism is a diet, veganism is a moral stance against the use and exploitation of animals as much as possible, these 2 are completely different things
Learning about Singer in a module at uni rn so this is perfectly timed 👌
Have you got to his opinions about disabled people yet?
Recommend reading Tom Regan on animal rights
Great chat, thanks for a great lunch break. Been vegetarian since I was 4 in the early 90s!! Vegan for 2 years.
Any significant changes ? Can you be a sendantary vegan ? Lol
Lol!
Wow Peter SInger! Novara is on a roll.
Brilliant to see animal rights being discussed here, really hope to see more content like it. Earthling Ed or Cosmic Skeptic would be great guests to have on for a discussion
Yeah Alex O'Connor is an interesting fella.
Perspective Philosophy would be another good guest, funny I'd mentioned to PP, only just a couple days ago that he should reach out to Aaron on animal rights and veganism, and this video churned up
@David Wishengrad Sorry David, I honestly do not or can't remember if I ever interacted with you
What do you mean "you"?
Are you claiming that life is not the most important to the individual? Not sure if you are advocating for this or not...or what you are getting at
@David Wishengrad Sounds like you're right up your own arse mate
@David WishengradI still do not know what you are talking about
To eat animals at the rate humankind does now, economics means we have to take everything away from them. Animals lead lives very much like ours, with thoughts feelings memories, relationships, familial and societal hierarchies. Animals feel pleasure, pain, fear, they play, they fight, they form freindships. Thats all taken away in a factory farm.
Exactly. Yet people will come up with "Oh, but plants are living beings too!" nonsense.
Animal rights is one of the key struggles of the 21st Century, no doubt.
If by animal rights you mean animal welfare then i'm all for it but how is applying human rights to animals possible? Animal rights can't be applied universally and the animals can't consent to those rights
@@jw-ob1wvanimal Rights recognises that they have the right to be free to live their lives. Not to be confused with asking them to vote (for some crooked politician). Animals lives are their own. That means their body, their family , their choice of food etc.
@@moulinduviaduc Well said Sue
Animal rights = fundamentally their right to be free. E.g. not owned, and bring treated as part of our moral community
Animal welfare = animals owned, used, slaughtered and subjugated as they are today, with minimum acceptable standards for their treatment
This is a very insightful, interesting and thought provoking interview.
@@ashleyKennedy5 why are you even here you knob?
@@jangomoonstomp just ignore him, he's a troll who pedals tedious claims because it makes him feel important and loved.
@@ashleyKennedy5 think you're talking to the wrong guy mate, I'm not a vegan, although I completely back anyone who makes that lifestyle choice, it's all good.
I did a conservation HND which turned me onto the benefits to the soil from cattle, and seeing as not everyone will become vegan overnight I'm not worried in that respect.
It's too complicated a subject to solve in TH-cam comments I'm afraid, plus I have my daughter's car to go fix now!
Factory Farming is a big problem and what says around this is very true. You don't have to agree with everything he says, but has interesting things to say.
@@ashleyKennedy5 i'm a vegan and yes, peta and many other so-called animal rights organizations are very controversial. but just because one is a vegan doesn't mean that one has to support these organizations. and yes cow shit is being used as fertilizer, could however very easily be replaced with plants, but because animal ag is still so dominant that is unfortunately not an option yet. there are a few vegan organic farms that grow their vegetables with vegan fertilizer.
I have thought for some years we should all be at least _heading_ in the direction of veganism, there are so many reasons to do so that even the indifferent to animal cruelty should be beginning that journey.
it's SOOOO EASY just to stop eating animals these days - what's this wussing with "heading in the direction of"??? STOP SEEING ANIMALS AS FOOD - we too are animals and we should stop being so barbaric already. It's unbelievable that we are treating animals FAR WORSE even than the barbarians from the middle ages did - and we think we are "civilized" now? HUMANS MAKE ME LAUGH!!
Vegan/ vegetarianism.... what is the difference other than a more radical, extreme, ideological motivation for 'veganism' !
Veganism is definitely something that I'm trying to do but haven't fully achieved yet. I am currently cutting meat out of my diet besides a day or two a week. The days I eat meat I consume fish for the omega 3's. Whether or not it is a placebo, I find keeping oily fish in my diet helps with my mental health. It has certainly been easier for me to change my diet this way, rather than completely changing to a vegan diet.
Good luck with the transition! The only regret I have is not doing it sooner. With regard to omega 3, chia seeds and flax seeds are a very good plant source of it, and there are also algae based vegan omega 3 supplements if you’d prefer that :)
Adding to Ewan's comment, there is Challenge 22, a free resource that will help you structure and plan out a plant-based diet/vegan lifestyle if you are struggling, there is also Dr Greger good evidence-based advice, through his website nutritionfacts on plant-based diets
Theres Vegan DHA Omega-3 Supplements, You can also get alot of Omegas from Nuts and Seeds
Incorporating 1 tablespoon (no more due to the cyanide content) of ground flax seed into your diet (into a smoothie is ideal) gives you all the Omega 3's in the form of short chain fatty acids ALA, which we elongate to EPA and DHA long chain fatty acids. The elongation process is a little bit inefficient but there is sufficient ALA in flax to allow for this. The problem comes for people who consume too much Omega 6's which compete with the Omega 3's for a required enzyme needed in the elongation process. So you need to keep your Omega 3 to Omega 6 ratio to no more than 1:4. This is easily done by avoiding processed foods and in particular refined oils, which have no health benefits despite the marketing claims for olive oil, etc. Walnuts have plenty of Omega 3's in the form of ALA and a 1:4 ratio with Omega 6's. Hemp seeds are also a good source of ALA.
The jury still seems to be out on algae based vegan DHA/EPA supplements as it's believed by some that the consequential unmetabolised EPA from your diet can cause cell damage and may ultimately be carcinogenic. Others believe them to be safe, but personally I don't supplement since I take flax and keep Omega 6's to no more than 4 times Omega 3's and my mental health and cognitive function are just fine.
Congratulations for the tiny steps you have made in the right direction.
Anyone who has a problem with using slavery as an analogy for how we treat animals should ask themselves: do you agree that slaves were treated like animals? Because, if so, you necessarily agree that animals are treated like slaves.
Yo this actually a savage piece of logic my guy
fk i keep trying to add to your comment but it keeps getting deleted
@@ashleyKennedy5 even if we grant this for the sake of argument (to be clear, I have seen zero evidence of plant sentience in reality), veganism would still be an ethical obligation. Most of the crops we grow are fed to the animals we breed for meat etc, so being vegan would result in fewer ‘plant deaths’
@@ashleyKennedy5 so we it’s useless to treat humans and animals well because plants have the same capacity to feel pain?
Love this logic Top Cat!
"WE are not vegans - THEY are carnists."
Respectfully- he wants people to shag the animals, so he’s hardly any better is he
This is totally fascinating, brilliant interview
Congratulations this is the best interview I have watched in a very long time, well done!
Congratulations, this interview is so important and informative, I was really hoping for such content to appear on this channel. Well done
Glad Aaron you were able to obtain an interview with this important philosopher. He'll be read in 100 years time. His language was shorn of ineptitude, replete with wisdom, but with the canny sense of a utilitarian Marxist who weighs every argument and fact in the balance of intense scrutiny. Would that you could get more people of his caliber.
Just fabulous. Loved this interview, had me fully attentive.
Have been asking Novara on YT and Ash Sarkar on Twitter to start addressing veganism for months now, so well done. Another example of horrendous racism was the use of black enslaved women (unanaesthetised) to develop the modern day forceps. As an abolitionist, my position is that we need to stop using other animals, so it's not just about pain, but about use. When veganism was developed in its most recent iteration in the 1940s, it was partly in response to the horrors of World War 2, and the founders saw it as the only way in which human animals could actually create peace on the planet...for all beings. As someone who previously campaigned for human rights, social justice and environmental justice, I am grateful to have come to understand the vital role of animal rights and veganism in my moral perspective and life.
This interview was brilliant, thank you 🙏
In the 1970s there used to be Protoveg chunks and mince as a meat substitute. Protoveg came as a dried soya-derived product which you would reconstitute with boiled water or veggie stock or Marmite. Linda McCartney, Paul's first wife wrote fantastic cookery books using this early product - it reproduced ordinary everyday recipes (I.e.: Christmas meals, a good example, still cooking a roasted dinner) - also: eat less and less meat makes you experiment with many other flavours and ways of cooking - and it is this craving for flavours in their full spectre that encouraged us to grow some of our daily staples of veggies... and to become experimental with veggies: specially the stir-fry in my case! But veggies are a lighter, nourishing, and complete diet most of the time. They made me a much better cook and more and more I use meat less and less (Hubble still likes his meats but enjoys my cooking with less meat as the years pass... Proud of helpfully weaning hubbie to less meaty meals
Peter Singer is my ultimate philosophical nemesis but I love to grapple with his thoughts so thank u for having him on this made a great change from the normal programme!
Veganism has always been a topic for ethics and morality primarily concerned with individual responsibility often with an emphasis on factory farming and animal welfare. It would be nice to see this transition to a political movement in which our impact on all non human animals is addressed as a societal issue. Hope to see more interviews like this
As somebody who doesn't advocate for veganism I do agree that ethical farming (nationally and globally) should be a political (specifically economic) issue.
@@Hoopla10 Agreed, but with a burgeoning human population, to approach 8? billions, how practical will it be ?
@@linmal2242 Certainly much more practical than eating meat. Animals eat plants. A small percentage of the nutrients of those plants is converted to animal tissue. Eating plants directly cuts out the middleman, which would allow us to roughly double our food production (in terms of calories) with the same effort and the same land use. Some cattle eat grass, which we obviously cannot digest ourselves. However, the vast majority of those cattle are raised on former rainforest which was cleared specifically for this purpose. Together with the methane and nitrous oxide emitted by the cattle, this is one of the main drivers of climate change.
Very interesting interview.
I eat, so little meat, it wouldn't bother me to go completely vegetarian. I hate the factory/commercial farming of animals. Pets are family members. My dogs (2 Boxers) are my babies. They sleep in bed with me and even when I was working, I rushed home to them. I don't like leaving them home. I have always brought my dogs with me when I travel.
Thank You Both
Of course you are aware that dairy and eggs are perhaps crueler than flesh production?
Dogs are carnivorous, like humans, you can tell from our teeth & eyes. A high-carb diet is linked to heart issues & strokes. Just avoid processed meat.
That's a great way of seeing things! It's not that hard for us to be kind to other species
@@NeoDiscoBall dogs aren't carnivores, they're omnivores and can live entirely healthy without any meat.
Dogs are not a wild species, in domestication their wolf diet shifted closer to the diet of the human grain farmer.
@@milesguidetti1 Cult behaviour.
Good to see Novara encompassing the wider world of radical thought, not just Novarites. Thumbs up
Excellent interview, thank you
Brilliant interview! Well done all involved :)
Insightful stuff, it would be great if you had George Monbiot on the show.
Why? He's also not a vegan, but an environmentalist. Shooting a deer unnecessarily is not vegan!
We possibly need to develop a narrative which doesn't depend on comparisons to the human experience. Other species have their own lives, motivations and states of consciousness. I work on the basis that if their is any doubt with regard to the treatment of a living being in the sense of causing pain, fear or 'unhappiness' this is unacceptable. This was the basis of my choosing veganism. The fact that veganism is good for the environment is a huge bonus but it's the fundamental issue that I refuse to be part of the exploitation of other species.
As for 'pets' I see them on the basis of something akin to caring for children. I am their caregiver and responsible for their well-being. I don't believe in anthropocentric exceptionalism. That way lies othering and the darkest facets of human behaviour.
In short, I see my choice to be a vegan as a moral choice.
Please interview Prof Gary Fracione, the abolitionist approach to animal rights.
Did Aaron not notice that the Bible verses he quoted actually stipulates a vegetarian diet for humans as the original ideal? According to the Bible humans did not begin to eat meat until after the flood and this was because humanity had gone badly off the rails
Our biggest dietary problem in UK is Sugars. Getting people to eat healthy more a priority. I am 75% veggie diet but still have some meat. It's took 3 attempts to revolutionise my eating away from bad sugars and snacks. How some Vegans campaign doesn't help. Diet is a very emotional and mental health issue. From many chats with Vegans - none of them get that, let alone the question of class and accessing food!
Really fascinating interview as ever, love the deep dives and what a great guest. I'd have loved to hear Aaron query Peter about his stance on Effective Altruism and dig into that, as that's an area that there is some real cognitive dissonance, for me at any rate, between an aim for socialism, a pragmatic stance on helping to reduce suffering while under the yoke of capitalism and the trade offs between both goals, and I'd have been intrigued to hear his view on such a topic, but unfortunately not to be. Another time maybe?
What, so Pete can expound on why he wants to rape disabled people and animals? I’m good thanks
I agree with his equivalence in abortion and euthanasia but he is assuming that all severely disabled children suffer, I work at the severe end of learning disabilities and there are plenty of happy children. They undoubtedly have struggles as do their parents, but their lives are far from constant suffering. We work to do all the things he mentioned, give them regular education and access to 'normal' life. It was a brief summary so perhaps he addresses these counter arguments in more detail. Maybe the amount of resources needed to support the severely mentally disabled? That would follow his utilitarianism I suppose, my answer to that would be end capitalism then the resource of time isn't so hard to come by 😉
I think it was predicated on whether that person's condition meant they were likely to suffer, which may not be the case for all conditions
@@NOYOURNOTHARDC0RE I think you're right but I don't know how he defines suffering in the context of severe disability or where his cut off is; is he talking pain? Mental anguish? (Plenty of people live with those). Cos with the right support disabilities aren't as disabling. I'm off to search for more detail on what he's said about it 🙃
Thanks
I've often wondered if the point Aquinas made about practicing cruelty to animals leading to cruelty to people might be part of the explanation for the cruelties peasant peoples inflicted on each other in the modern period.
In India cows have more rights than women.
@@NeoDiscoBall that's not relevant at all, it is nothing more than religious extremism.
And it's not true, if you knew about how they exploited cows for dairy and enslave them for intensive labor you'd realize that.
And cows aren't the only animals in india, in general animals are not treated good in india, no better than other places in the world.
Only a tiny portion of the population is vegetarian there btw, the rest eats meat.
india is also the 5th largest leather producer.
As someone who spent three decades eating meat/dairy/eggs before switching to fully plant-based for nearly eight years now, i can assure you that taste buds are very adaptive and you will over time lose your acquired craving for the non-plant. Keep in mind also that animal milk contains special opioids (casomorphins) to make the calves addicted to the taste so that they stick around their mother for feeding, and cheese as a condensed form of milk contains a concentrated amount of it, which is why many people would have a hard time giving it up. (Animal milk contains also special proteins that make the calves grow quickly; in grown humans, these proteins can feed carcinogens and tumors.) Then, if you are not used to eating lots of vegetables, your gut may not have an adequate microbiome to digest certain compounds such as oxalates, and that can cause some bad symptoms, which people often erroneously interpret as being fundamentally the fault of the plant-based diet they've tried, when it's due to a problem in their own gut that can be fixed by treating the negative and positive bacteria with antibiotics and probiotics. After that, the vegetables will provide all the nutrients for the good bacteria to maintain gut health. Transition is the hardest part.
Interesting to hear religious thinking cited so often to justify needlessly causing suffering and death to non-human animals. That's partly why we need a completely naturalistic ethics based on evidence, reason and compassion for all sentient beings (Sentientism)
I love that NM did this interview but was slightly disappointed that much of the discussion resided in the philosophical or the fringe (in terms of numbers and violence). I would have liked Aaron to ask more direct questions as to why he should not eat animal products on an ethical basis but perhaps singer isn't quite the right guest for this.
Still, happy my NM contribution helps get guests of this calibre and hope we can have more of the same.
agreed - someone like Gary Francione would have made the moral imperative of veganism much more clear
@@erinlanza2970 That would be brilliant. I wonder how that would pan out?
@@AnimalJusticeEmergency Haha, not sure! I can't imagine any effective counter-arguments to his points, to be honest - the NM team might have to confront their cognitive dissonance, and this would be great. What I like about Gary is his clarity and directness; it's what the issue needs IMO!
@@erinlanza2970 100% agree. Not sure if Aaron could handle GF though :)
@@AnimalJusticeEmergency Hahaha, not sure either! I certainly couldn't. I credit him for making me an ethical vegan as it suddenly made everything very clear. That's why I always suggest him!
Yes
Brilliant :)
Opening premise: I have always taken this verse to mean we have a duty of care to earth. Just as God is beneficent, so we are commanded to be, and beneficence in the entirety of the biblical co-text is contextual, and clearly means a different thing in a full and dying world.
This was super interesting and Aaron is super lucky to get to talk to Singer. I wish he pushed harder on Singers Utiliterianism though. Nobody ever does despite it being largely pretty weird way of looking at the world..
He thinks it’s good for society to rape disabled people and animals. No need to euphemise it.
Peter singer ❤
Short answer: YES
For the sake of the animals, for the sake of the environment, and for the sake of your own health Please Go Vegan!
A high-carb diet is extremely bad for your health.
@@NeoDiscoBall correct, but going vegan is good for you.
@@NeoDiscoBall Eating the body parts of sentient beings who were tortured to death and died screaming....is morally justifiable?
@@AnimalJusticeEmergency Fish don't scream & neither do eggs or dairy, yet vegans eat none of these for some inexplicable reason. Human beings aren't herbivores. It's detrimental to an individual's health to act as if they are. I think we can afford to cut beef & pork out of our diets & personally haven't eaten either in years, in fact we can't afford not to cut beef & pork out of our diets, environmentally. They are inedible without salt anyway.
@@NeoDiscoBall Correct. Humans are not herbivores like cows and other grazing non-human animals! Humans are predominantly frugivores with some ability to tolerate other items eg roots, tubers, leaves, maybe the odd insect, or other animal body part. However, being vegan is an ethical position involving not using other animals. Fish scream and struggle ...eggs and cow lactation secretions come from the abused and abused bodies of sentient beings who led horrible lives and died screaming and struggling...dropped alive into boiling water while strung upside down; bolts through their heads to stun them (which frequesntly don't work so the animal is struggling until their throat is cut and it takes several minutes to die. And male calves are separated from mothers and killed. Ditto male chciks.
I've lived my life with a learning disabled sister, and known both her and her friends. This man with knows as little of the thoughts and feelings of severely disabled people as he does of the thoughts and feelings of trees.
I've represented and assisted people with a range of disabilities since 2009 when it was first obvious that the Work Capability Assessments were causing harm. There's many a claimed justification for treating disabled people as less than human; that it is somehow for the disabled person's benefit for some reason is one. I'm sickened they're given any credence, as they are here, obviously would upset anyone who knows that being unable to voice your opinion, even being in pain, does not mean you gain nothing from life and are undeserving of life.
This isn't the first time I've felt this way about Novara Media. Indeed I have spent much time with other disabled people trying to rebuke arguments from Vegans who seem to favour euthanasia. It has led to the presumption that disabled people are not only seen as less than human, but less than animal.
Vegans favour euthanasia? Where is that coming from? That is a very strong statement. Facts on the table. And if not -shut the F up!
@@bugavila2314 It was in the internal party discussion room s of the Green Party of England & Wales. As well as representing disabled people, I am disabled myself (physically having broken my back & neck). The word used by Tim Young in the rooms for me was Parasite. I complained that this was just about as much as I should put up with. I'd spent months arguing that Euthanising the disabled was neither needed nor appropriate. For a Party which responds to complaints from other groups quickly, no response was forthcoming. I left, so did several other disabled people (some of who complained that my leaving left them voiceless) that disabled people were not receiving fair treatment). My argument against euthanasia is more based on the experience of my sister & her friends.
I don't know how you'd expect simply telling people to Shut-the-Fuck-Up would amount to anything by way of argument, or comment.
@@liarbrice4772 I have had concerns numerous times about Novara Media & disabled people. You've argued that this interview is not representative of Peter Singer; in doing that recognising it as not a favourable impression. Novara Media have been happy enough to portray this attitude, and to somehow do it in at least an acceptable light.
In Britain disabled people have received harsh mistreatment since around 2008. The BMA have estimated, in the decade from 2010 around 130,000 excess deaths have happened. Nobody cares really. I keep trying to speak on it, nobody cares. That was before Covid where many people have said in open discourse online that the disease will only kill those already unwell. Nobody cares.
@@roberthartlepool1756 what a hell are you talking about? You clearly stated that vegans favour euthanasia. And I asked you where is that coming from. Instead you are giving me your life story and what this or that party us saying to you. I said it us a strong staying vegans favour euthanasia. I'm vegan myself and the idea if veganism is never hurt any living being. Your statement is derogatory and untrue. As a matter of fact I have a feeling you are not only physically disabled.
@@liarbrice4772 So from intellectual liar to pretence of empathy Liar to think's you're tough bully liar.
My statement about Novara Media remain valid, and are more the same for Liars like yourself being used to silence them. It simply creates a worse impression.
Oh, and choosing to play bully boy with someone who has told you they're disabled doesn't mean you'd ever be able to push them around physically or otherwise.
I can ignore you, you may continue to show the world what you are.
Your pictures are hanging a bit crooked Aaron. Or is it supposed to be like that?
The picture appears to be leaning to the Left like arron so probably on purpose
@@jonathansteel8565 haha nice one (bet he straightens it for the next video though)
Yes.
Am I the only one bugged by the fact that Peter is not wearing glasses and seems to find it difficult to look at the screen?! 😅
Vegan for 10 years. Watched the Animals Australia footage of Aust. cows being tortured and murdered in Indonesia and went vegan immediately. Before then I'd been veggie for 20 years, mainly for eco reasons (but also agreed with Singer) but had slowly allowed meat to creep into my diet, until I was eating fucking pork sausage from Spain (appalling animal welfare situation there). I'd always found vegans irritating, even as a vegetarian: that was my conscience pricking me, I now realise.
Most people who are offended by vegans, are in reality, offended by the prospect of having to admit their cruelty.
Very insightful interview. Given that animal welfare is generally very carefully considered in most biological science these days, I was surprised to hear that such a range of horrific scientific experiments continue to be conducted at large scale. I would have appreciated more discussion around the environmental impact of livestock farming, not just on carbon emissions but also on the land used and ecological damage associated with that. I realise though that Singer approaches the issue more from an ethical perspective.
The notion of 'animal welfare' is a figleaf to cover up the horrific torture and abuse of sentient beings who are killed in their billions because of human supremacy. I did a talk on the environmental impacts of animal agriculture which is on the channel. it's the biggest cause of biodiversity loss and all kinds of environmental damage. You might also enjoy "Cowspiracy' which goes into a ton of well researched detail on this.
@@AnimalJusticeEmergency Animal welfare is a real and serious concept, which as I said, is generally taken seriously by the scientific community in the design of studies. This arguably makes it all the more egregious that these horrific experiments and farming of livestock continue, as they are an insult to scrupulous and conscientious zoologists.
@@rossmcnally7016 Yes, 'taken seriously' as a means of enabling horrific practices which would never be allowed or even contemplated on human animals to be continuously used, modified and refined on other animals. For what? Profit. And none of those 'scrupulous and conscientious zoologists' will be vegan as they could never tolerate the horrific nature of 'work' which justifies the torture and murder of innocent beings.
@@AnimalJusticeEmergency As a zoology graduate who is more or less vegan, I can tell you that it's that kind of mindless refusal to engage in reasonable and nuanced discussion, or to recognise an ally when you see one, that gives the animal rights movement the reputation of cranks.
@@rossmcnally7016 Having a consistent position against, say, rape, or racism, would presumably also be a 'mindless refusal to engage in a reasonable and nuanced discussion' ? And one is either vegan ie the ethical decision not to is e other animals, or not. You know, like 'I'm more or less anti rape'. Speaking as a vegan and a journalist.
A brilliant man. I don't agree with him on everything, but his magnum opus made a large impact on me when I read it in the early 90s.
Talk with Dr vandana shiva , check out her book : soil not oil...free your mind
I work in biomedicine and, regardless of any ethical implications, animal models (mouse, mainly) for human disease are deeply limited and their elevation to the gold standard in preclinical testing is absurd. Development of non-animal models (complex cell-based models, computer models) should be a major priority.
I'd love to have you interview Gary Francione. He makes clear that veganism is a moral imperative if you accept the fact that nonhuman animals are sentient beings (which they are).
Animal Rights needs to be taken more seriously at NM, and not just in isolation - it intersects and interacts with all other modes of oppression. See Aph and Syl Ko for an analysis of racism/colonialism and animal exploitation.
70 billion nonhuman animals killed every year for food - and this number is in the trillions if we include sea animals (which we should). If you're choosing your enjoyment and habits over the lives of other sentient beings, then I can only believe you are blinded by your own cognitive dissonance. We all lose our minds over animal abuse but are happy to wear leather and eat chicken once a week. Where is the logic?
For what human rights abuses would we make the same excuses? (But I like it, it's my culture, I don't do it that much?)
Please look into the Abolitionist Approach and take animal rights seriously. It takes a shift in consciousness, and it not only frees you from the guilt / illogical self-justification but it saves lives. It's not a sacrifice, it's a pleasure to do the right thing. This is the shift that needs to happen (a revolution of the heart). If you could choose not to hurt someone, why wouldn't you do that?
It's easy, it's cheap, and it's the right thing to do.
Totally agree with Erin! I'd also love you to interview Gary Francione to discuss an abolitionist approach that considers the animal rights movement as a social justice movement thus appreciating its intersectionality. Also, you should touch on the problem of welfarist positions and single-issue campaigns; Gary would be great for that.
Absolutely agree with you, Erin and Cee - Gary Francione and / or Anna Charlton would be mega on Novara! Bet they would have great banter. Gary and Anna head to head with Ash and Michael, fuck yes. Get some drinks in for that conversation. They're way more engaged with other grassroots social justice movements than Singer too
As an aside to cellular meat, is anyone researching cellular milk and dairy products?
Perfect Day Foods. They developed the tech for it 7/8 years ago. It’s ready to go
I already prefer oat milk to regular. Not found a decent vegan cheese though
Other milky liquids do the job perfectly. Even for cheese.
#goVegan.. it's the least you can do..
I like the idea of 'ethical meat' i.e. grown cellular meat grown in a lab/factory, but the 'purists' and 'naturalists' will decry the system, production, eventually, calling it 'frankenfurter' or some such epithet ! But I also like the idea of a 'code of conduct' or 'animal rights' standard for the production and slaughter of animals for meat. Chicken factory farms and piggeries are ripe candidates for the production of human attacking bio organisms.
Can't ignore that some people don't acknowledge consciousness in life other than humans. Some don't even care about consciousness in humans.
But, then again, does a lion care about eating a zebra??!!!
That comparison is irrelevant, an animal killing a predator is an act of necessity. Whereas you eating meat, as an empathetic human that understands suffering, is not necessary for your survival.
Anyone that makes an animal suffer is capable of doing it to a person. Cruel nature is cruel nature.
Are you prepared to abandon walking in case you squash an insect underfoot?
@@NeoDiscoBall if I see an insect, I avoid walking on it. I will capture a spider and put it outside. I didn’t say about killing an animal, I said being cruel to an animal, torturing it.
@@cookiehale1445 Who is torturing animals?
@@NeoDiscoBall whoever eats animals
That's probably true but what's that got to do with animal husbandry? This puritanical attitude to veganism doesn't help anybody's cause and immediately turns people away. To suggest that a farmer who treats their animals with care (often at a financial deficit) is cruel by nature is frankly idiotic at best, insulting at worse.
owning pets and feeding your pet countless other animals is pretty hard to see as being ethical.
I would assume that vegans have their pets on a plant based diet.
Wow! Peter Singer is looking old enough to be a philosopher now. His arguments & reasoning was the main reason why i stopped eating animals. He`s the man! Good to see that he seems to be doing well. This is the time when most people on the planet, should know the name Peter Singer & his work on animal liberation. If we don`t pay attention to what he says & has written then we won`t last much longer as a species & we`ll damage the planet beyond any chance of repair.
I understand why people aren't vegan because social norms dictate it is normal but that was true of racism, sexism etc at one (and still is to a lesser extent) point. However if you look back at slavery or lack of female emancipation with disgust you should be aware that the only reason you aren't vegan is because right now the majority do it and so it's considered perfectly fine. I think that will change but why not be one of those who 'get it' ahead of time?
I’ll never be vegan it doesn’t matter if the majority are
@@Assassin99584 ok, well there are always people who just don't change with the times or with changing awareness.
@@klang180 because it’s illogical and inconsistent
Wait, you wrote fully automated luxury communism? I was just recommended that book, I had no idea!
I don't like that he changed his words to avoid comparing animal treatment with slavery
The comparison is perfect. A creature that forces another creature to do extremely demanding jobs in terrible conditions and in several cases, causing death. It doesn't matter anything about those creatures but the horrific relationship that links them
I thought I'd give it a go because I saw how much vegan sausage rolls upset Piers Morgan & his ilk.
Then a few months later Cruella gave tofu munchers a mention in parliament & I knew that I'd never be able to go back.
If Piers Morgan, Jeremy Clarkson, Alex Jones, & a Tory home secretary all denigrate something as bad then I fail to see how I shouldn't be at least be giving it a go.
That man is not vegan! Get Gary Francione on.
I remember as a kid being horrified that the meat I ate came from an animal that could just as easily have been my dog who I loved, but my mum told me to shut up. The thing being there's this cut off you're supposed to do if you ever want to be a grown up. Yes, we kill sentient beings but that's part of the deal. I just wasn't able to buy into that. And those that CAN buy into the deal can buy into every other deal going, and that includes slavery, war, you name it. The same people who simply MUST have meat with every meal are the same people who are, (is there another way of saying this?), gammon.
I know this view makes people feel good but this dichotomy is wrong. There are people that eat meat and protest other forms of oppression effectively. This is not the competition to be the most squeaky clean moral person. There are also vegans that don't give a toss about forms of human exploitation. This is the variety of life, there are no hard and fast binaries.
@@unexaminedlife6130 I'm sure you'll get to the point you're trying to make very soon. I await it with bated breath
I'm Vegan & It's very healthy 💚
Can be but I've just eaten a pack of biscuits with a brew 🤣
@@Daniel-we4bo 😂
same, my cronometer score for the day is 97% ! nutritional profile on fleek
@@RapidBlindfolds 👍
But you must supplement for B12 and vitamin D, and possibly keep an eye on some other vitamins and minerals depending on your diet.
End animal agriculture
I thought this was actually a very poor quality discussion that seemed to avoid a discussion of why is it acceptable to kill anyone when we don’t need to? It was a largely human-centric discussion that touched on going vegan might be a good idea because of climate change or pandemics. When it comes to humans NM fights injustice because it is unjust, not because their might be a benefit to the dominating group. Not so, apparently when it comes to non-human animals. I was disappointed.
I have to agree. I felt Aaron skirted around the elephant in the room i.e the consumption of animals and their secretions and the suffering this causes when it is completely unnecessary for the vast majority of people.
@@klang180 For sure... avoiding all questions that would logically lead him to being vegan
Absolutely. Aaron was clearly scared that he would be asked about his position ...and also clearly hasn't got to grips with the non-human animals as persons side of things.
No
I'm more Marxian than Marxist but I was hoping you'd grill him on his 'Very Short Introduction to Marxism' which was unable to grasp the theory of surplus value. Singer called it out as obviously wrong. It is well-known that you can't accurately measure it, only describe the process. Even Marx said this.
I support most vegan arguments, both morally and scientifically... but those who think a majority of people will suddenly switch to veganism are deluding themselves.
If we tax meat until it becomes unaffordable that would lead to rebellion and criminal black markets.
I don't go as far Peter Singer, and I don't give a damn about what religions say on eating meat... or anything else for that matter.
The great mass of people will not be moved from meat until we make it easy for them. We have to stop thinking that being "right" means everyone else will fall in line and do the "right" thing.
We can only make progress by going big on fake meats. Invest in making them better and cheaper. If you can make a meatless burger that tastes as good as meat and is cheaper, people will switch in their droves. Same with all other products.
Stop clinging to the moral high-ground and posturing, do what will work.
Are these experiments with constant electric shocks to mice and rats still going on? I have a pet hamster and I'm really horrified by this.
Singer said he isn’t vegan
He is trying his best to be vegan. He occasionally eats oysters, and eggs from his own farm where the hens are not caged.
@@arunshankars8398 It's easy to be vegan. It would be easy for him to be vegan. He's just not vegan because he does not philosophically align with the movement. He's not trying at all.
This is the one topic that I *knowingly* act in grossly immoral ways despite knowing the pain and suffering that my actions precipitate and directly contribute to. I think that meat eating will be one of the human behaviors that in 200 years our ancestors will view as ethically incomprehensible. The ‘we’ve eaten meat for millennia’ argument is so weak.
Why do it then?
Go vegan then. It’s not as hard as you think.
1:01 You literally were so close to realisation when reading out that excerpt that before the fall, Adam and Eve were actually vegan!
1:31 Just to let you know that Peter Singer is not even vegan, he's a flexible "vegan" so no in actuality he's not a vegan, he's a welfarist, bigger cages rather than no cages, meatless Monday etc, if you want to know about actual animal rights there is Tom Regan's "The Case for Animal Rights " for those that are interested in the abolitionist take rather than a welfarist one, those non-human animals are ends in themselves and therefore should not be exploited due to their inherent value of sentience and self-interests. Tom Regan's anniversary was only 2 weeks ago.
2:50 It is important to stress that we already have alternatives, we do not have to continue to exploit and slaughter animals, and to wait out for perfectly ethical meat consumption via a lab (which has not been scaled up as of yet). Technically if there is ethical lab-grown meat that involves no exploitation of animals or slaughter then by default it is vegan - you would be vegan but eventually, if everyone is vegan, no one would be vegan as it would be totally normalised in society as for example no one today is a suffragette
3:20 Under the definition of veganism, people who cannot legitimately survive as possible and practical on a vegan lifestyle are defacto vegan
14:54 It would be raising animal rights and considerations, not bringing down rights of humans, to a speciesist they could look at it that way if they are myopic.
55:18 Erm vegetarianism? C'mon Aaron, you mean veganism. Under vegetarianism, you will still exploit and slaughter animals, still have the huge GHG footprint of animal agriculture, and still have a huge risk with zoonotic diseases including but not limited to diseases such as bird flu
100% agreed 👏
People currently don't want the alternative. I find the "puritanical" attitude from a lot vegans hurts the cause tbh. Better to advocate for more ethical farming and an economic system that doesn't encourage the extremes of factory farming. Both things would bring down GHG footprint and adjust our attitude to food, economy of food and animal husbandry. I'm not saying you don't do this also. There's a balance that needs to be struck.
@@Hoopla10 "People currently don't want the alternative. "
People are causally indifferent or ignorant about the sources of their food, not that they do not want an alternative, we can see that with the rise of sales of vegan alternatives every day it is patently not true that people do not want alternatives. Vegans advocate veganism to get people to think about the dire consequences, of their non-vegan actions, the unnecessary slaughter and exploitation of sentient beings, and shift them away from that.
"I find the "puritanical" attitude from a lot vegans hurts the cause tbh."
If you want to preach about effective vegan activism then be a vegan, and do your form of activism, otherwise, it would sound like you deflecting responsibility of your own actions.
"Better to advocate for more ethical farming and an economic system that doesn't encourage the extremes of factory farming"
Not for the animals who are the victims, there is no ethical way to slaughter and exploit animals.
". Both things would bring down GHG footprint and adjust our attitude to food, economy of food and animal husbandry. I'm not saying you don't do this also. There's a balance that needs to be struck."
Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude, as far as is possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose. In no shape is their balance for the animals who are slaughtered and exploited, there is no middle ground to be struck.
@@oneill7332 I disagree, it's not indifference. They don't want it. I'm not talking about ethical farming and animal husbandry I'm just talking about veganism. People LIKE meat. People's diets and cooking knowledge are a million miles from where we need it to be before this is close to acceptable for the majority of people. When I speak of balance I'm talking about how (if ultimately veganism is the desired result) we transition. I mean for a start our education system does an AWFUL job in teaching kids how to cook in general let alone one for a purely plant based diet. There needs a cultural shift throughout the system. I would rather vegans wanting to advocate for veganism putting the building blocks of a foundation first otherwise they sound puritanical hardliners that's divorced from reality and will only alienate and distance those who we need to bring on board. I'm a vegan, I don't want to say that because it has no bearing on my argument. I'm talking about how this is framed. You come at this from a puritanical pov all you're going to be faced with is a blank wall and somebody saying that's not going to happen unless you FORCE it to. So are you for totalitarian rule? You sound like the evangelical Christian right. Without their massive lobbying/voting base. You got no f'ing chance. So do you want actual change or just sound like you have the moral high ground?
There is a valid argument that ethical farming in general is really the thing we need (ignoring "moral" arguments). That's an easier argument to sell.
@@Hoopla10 "I disagree, it's not indifference. They don't want it. "
Unless you have evidence of this then it's just an anecdote, many people go days by day without thinking about veganism and animals, despite consuming, wearing, and for entertainment, in one form or the other every day, it's simply Occam's razor applied here.
" I'm not talking about ethical farming and animal husbandry I'm just talking about veganism. "
You were talking about "ethical farming" hence you said "better to advocate for more ethical farming and an economic system that doesn't encourage the extremes of factory farming" why are you gaslighting?
"People LIKE meat."
Of course they do, I do too, but taste pleasure does not justify slaughtering sentient beings.
" People's diets and cooking knowledge are a million miles from where we need it to be before this is close to acceptable for the majority of people."
The majority of people in the world eat a predominately plant-based diet, and generally cheaper than meat-based despite what you say on the contrary, meat is a luxury and privilege.
" When I speak of balance I'm talking about how (if ultimately veganism is the desired result) we transition."
If you are arguing via a welfarist perspective, vegans are not welfarist, you are speaking to the wrong people, if you want to convince people of bigger cages instead of none for example then that's up for you to convince non-vegans, vegans following veganism as a philosophy and way of living have no desire to conform to welfarist standards in order to placate other non-vegans.
" I mean for a start our education system does an AWFUL job in teaching kids how to cook in general let alone one for a purely plant based diet."
I agree with cooking but I disagree we should be teaching people how to cook with animal products
" There needs a cultural shift throughout the system. I would rather vegans wanting to advocate for veganism putting the building blocks of a foundation first otherwise "
Vegans have been challenging the system but we are getting there as the moral zeitgeist is shifting somewhat, but more constructive criticism of better ways of challenging the system is needed and welcomed but not at the expense of the animals
Why is a dog a great companion but a pig something to eat?
Very disappointed and angry that while I accept the debate/discussion around Animal welfare/Climate Change/Vegetarianism/Veganism/Industrial Farming(Food Production) is important to slip in at the end the disgusting and appalling views re disability from a person who clearly has little knowledge/experience of the issues using terms such as "Normal" (What the hell is Normal) Disabled people already exist in a hostile environment which has been deliberately created and lead to the suffering and deaths of thousands of disabled people not due to any medical conditions or disability but due to a society that is structred and maintained deliberately to exclude them! Up until now I have thought highly of Aaron but his lack of scrutiny on this issue as it was a final aside to the main discussion was very disappointing. We already have Eugenics supporters at the heart of Government so for such abhorrent views to go unchallenged from someone on the Left was frightening to say the least! Also have to say its indicative of our society today that so very few comments on this have been raised as if disabled rights are of no consequence. .
I'm a diabetic could you vegans tell me what I can eat as you vegans know that that carbohydrates are another kind of sugar
Well what do you currently eat? No carbs? I mean it’s pretty easy to do that as a vegan too, replace your meat with tofu, pulses, beans and lentils etc
Tried my numbers went up still lowered on a real food diet. And questioning why are Novara Media interviewing a known eugenicist
It is about time you took notice of the comments made on Novara Media about meat-eating, you all sound a little late to the game and sometimes I just smh.
especially Ash, who is otherwise faultless ;)
Better late than never.
I only became vegan last year. As for most vegans, I can only regret that it took so long. The point is to open people's eyes and not criticise people for choices they made before they saw the truth.
@@Missiformationflanangan yeah I love Ash but I guess we all have our blind spots and I'm sure I certainly do, just disappointing that someone so concerned with the welfare of humans can't see past her own taste preferences in order to stop inflicting suffering on animals. It's also a human rights issue as those who work in slaughterhouses and killing lines are hardly the bourgeoisie.
@@Missiformationflanangan Spot on. I've asked her about it on Twitter...zilch.
Please also consider interviewing someone in the regenerative agriculture/grazing, holistic management, permaculture. Veganism isn't the only way and excludes a lot of peoples from the conversation
Seconded! I would love to see Raj Patel or someone from La Via Campesina
Can it ever be right to torture and kill and, in reality, torture and kill upwards of 50 billion every year? Regarding ecology, regenerative grazing necessarily uses land, much more than intensive husbandry. Would you argue for a vast reduction in the scale of meat consumption, a vast increment in the price of meat, or are you happy to use virtually all agricultural land to maintain present levels of meat consumption for the entire human race? Is grazing necessary? New Zealand is an example which might indicate not.
@@mcel6551 Unless we provide alternatives, we shouldn't increase the price of food. Because then it is always the same. Working class people suffers while the rich keep doing what they do.
@@AlbertoGarcia-wd7sc The alternative is vegan and it costs less in every sense
Grazing is unscalable as a method of feeding everyone.
The land required is so much larger.
Al well as this: extra methane produced by grazing animals contributes to a greater greenhouse gass effect, than grain or soy fed livestock.
NO!
Quick answer: no
You should read Peter Singer.
It sickens me that Singer isn't an abolishment vegan. He's for making animals more comfortable while being killed.
"Abolitionist". And why is he always wheeled out to speak for veganism, when he isn't even vegan?
Why are you platforming a eugenicist?
☠
Peter does not seem like a generous interviewee, but he's interesting and sharp nevertheless.
imagine not having the maturity to meaningfully discuss a serious issue regarding the copious suffering of people affected by certain specific disabilities. People who want to curb the rights of parents = sick. People who would rather see someone suffer than die in dignity = sick.
I jokingly tell my vegan friends that they are eating all things that give our planet oxygen and taking food way from all the animals they love
Would you eat your dog , Aaron?
A lot of people are probably going to be angry at you for interviewing Singer...
There’s no moral or ethical justification to eat animal products.