Ok enough now! After reading all these comments from private pilots and other pilots or non pilots regarding "the 737 pilots would have been pissed because of going around", i wanna make one thing clear, and i am sure i speak for 99 percent of my colleagues in the cockpits of their airliners around the entire world: As soon as we receive a "GO AROUND", this call alone triggers an automatism with us that is hard to understand or believe by someone who is not flying/ flying commercial. NOT ONE SECOND! we think about our passengers that could now miss their next flight or the fuel we burn because of this, not to mention that we just for that reason carry extra fuel with us. What are you all thinking?? When is listened to this case study i could clearly hear in her voice the rising stress level, the more friendly she became in chatting with ATC the more she showed that the became exhausted and overwhelmed with this situation. What game was ATC playing? And when there would have been another 100 737s on approach, would they have taken her out of her landing clearance for another 100 times? She should have done only one thing, i was "telling" her this several times: Lady, now you DECLARE EMERGENCY. Let me tell you student pilots or private pilots: As soon as you feel uncomfortable tell this ATC immediately and in clear, short sentences! Make it clear: Until here and no further. It is YOU that MUST tell ATC, enough now of missed approaches or changing runways or giving absurd landing runways with absurd crosswinds, i am UNABLE to FOLLOW. I would like to share something with all of you: I was once on approach to an Airport which normally did not get that type of aircraft we flew in this day. It was a summer day which started sunny but the weather forecast from the morning showed already a large thunderstorm front arriving from the west and crossing the country in the afternoon in an easterly direction. So, while on approach to this airport, we monitored ATC and there was a small PA28 with a pilot and 1 passenger that just had taken off from ED.. and the VFR departure route let him fly out to the north sea, where he came in contact with this front. The pilot then stated he can not follow the route as he would become IFR and he is not IFR rated. He then said he needs to turn around and request radar vectors as his horizontal visibility became zero and all he had left was vertical visibility, but the ocean below him with the humid air above washed out any reference point for him. He then wanted to return to the airport, that's when ATC stated, because of us on approach, and the rule here is IFR before VFR , they need to vector him out to the ocean again to make space for us IFR traffic. The pilot stated he doesn't want to go further out to the ocean as he has no more reference points. I could clearly listen to his voice and i felt his concerns and that he just wanted to go back to the airport and ATC could do anything else then keep him away from us. As ATC had to follow their procedures and the pilot did not know how to handle all this right now i was sure this could have led into a nightmare. In the meanwhile we approached 2500 feet AGL and i called for "Gear Down", then looked at my first officer and we both knew we had to do something. I pressed the transmit button on my control column and said: " D-E..., declare an emergency! NOW! Dont ask, do it,NOW!" ..1 second later: " XXX Tower, D-E... is declaring an emergency " . Immediately ATC took their actions : " airline-callsign, go around, climb and maintain, proceed to .... enter holding at .... " then " D-E..., fly heading ...., RWY ..., number one, cleared to land". We left our hold after a very short time and then started our approach again and landed. The airport was kinda small for our aircraft and we parked on the apron. I could see the PA28 from my seat, the piper was parked left to us, maybe 100 m away. The pilot was standing next to his aircraft and looked at me. We both looked at each other. This was a moment i will never forget in my life. He didn't look happy at all and i knew i have to talk to him. We shut down our engines and after finishing the checklist i left the cockpit and squeezed through our deboarding passengers, taking the stairs down and went over to the Piper. The pilot was really young, 21 years, and he came into my direction with tears in his eyes saying " i am so sorry ".. I took him in my arms and answered " Stop, Stop, Stop, you did everything right" and i have to admit because of him crying i also had a tear in my eyes .I told him: " i am so glad you made it back , i am really glad seeing you here! " . After he calmed down, He looked at our aircraft and said: " What a beautiful aircraft, one day i want to become a captain in this". I offered him and his passenger, a friend of him,to come with me and i will show them the cockpit. It was quite a nice view, his Piper PA28 next to our ......Boeing 747-400. I am 56 years old, Captain on the Boeing 747-400 and 747-8i and have 23000+ flight hours logged. I am glad that this pilot got the chance to add one more landing to his log book. A chance the lady here did not have anymore. Rest in peace, that's what i really wish the occupants of the Cirrus aircraft.
Nice! But a quick remark: According EDxx aerodrome that happened in German airspace and so far I can surely state: it is not IFR before VFR or Jet before piston, it is "first come first serve" in theory, "first come best serve" in praxis. In this case ATC should have recognized the best service has to be dedicated to the Piper.
Wow. What a story, and wisdom right there. And in the context of this video, its post accident analysis and morals of the story, too. Phew. Thank you for taking the time to add your comment and experience to it. It's bound to influence pilots and ACT reading it, with more positive outcomes, decision-making the very likely downstream consequences.
As a low time Pilot with thirty years wrenching on heavy helicopters this one really choked me up. ATC although trying to help kinda sealed this woman's fate by overloading her. It's hard to point fingers but I was getting stressed with the approach changes and go around's , I can't imagine how she felt . Fly safe.
@@johnnyz8423 After the fact is all we have. The PIC is responsible for flying the aircraft, not air traffic control. Not speaking up is the PIC fault. The multiple errors of speed and flap control were critical and she likely got overwhelmed / helmet fire flying into a busy Class B airspace. As a PIC it is your responsibility to operate safely and in this case she sadly failed.
@@johnnyz8423 I appreciate your ability to acknowledge the true nature of this tragedy. I am sure no ATP would have wanted this women to be denied the runway so many times, enough that exceeded her skills obviously. But it angers me that many seem to think that the big planes who are making money flying have any more right or need to get on the ground than GA flights. You and I both know that commercial aviation and GA MUST share these resources, just as the big commercial trucks have to share the roads with regular traffic. ATC killed this woman, not the airlines. It is up to them to SEQUENCE traffic, as you know so that there is room for everyone. Even if it means a big plane has to hold or go around. Sure there is no comparison in regard to fuel cost and inconvenience to a larger number of people, but that is not the point. The skies and airports belong to all aircraft and despite their size and importance there MUST be equal access to the resources in the system. Commercial traffic already enjoys the flight levels free of VFR traffic...ATC must learn to do their jobs properly and not make up for their mistakes by killing the smaller planes.
When you absolutely, positively, have to get somewhere on a schedule never - ever - take your aircraft. That was my dad's rule and after he passed and I inhereted his Cherokee I keep this rule close to my heart.
This is so true….if you have to be somewhere at a certain time…don’t fly. Heard another incident when a father took his family to go to a wedding…pressure to be on-time made him push through bad weather with a vfr rating. The outcome was tragic. Don’t be pressured to be somewhere.
I am an Australian private pilot and have also flown in the United States.When i saw this video it sent chills through my body. This young lady was treated so badly i was in disbelief. This event was so simple to solve. The 737 should have been instructed to go around. The cirrus would have landed safely. What a tragedy that could have been avoided.My thoughts and prayers of the cirrus are with me always.
My thoughts exactly, the overtaking 737 on the first landing attempt should have been instructed to go around as the cirrus had right of way at this point being at the lower altitude.
@Nabor Simbor Suggesting that someone's house be 'beset' was not a good thought. The US is the only country where a mob besetting someone's house is allowed. Happens to judges etc...The rest of it I agree with....
I’ve been a pilot for 52 years and a 747 Captain for 33 years. NEVER let an air traffic controller jerk you around or tell you how to fly an airplane like they did to this Cirrus pilot. I can’t tell you how upsetting this is to me.
Appreciated. I have 30 years of GA-only pilot and CFI experience, and have never touched a jet. I thought, in addition to your remarks: getting banged around with passengers in an SR20 for hours on a bumpy and gusty day (which I have experienced a fair amount). Then, getting a litany of changes in the pattern at a Class B at the end of the flight. It would be a tall order for me.
I couldn't agree more.. why they kept on trying to squeeze her in between fast moving traffic is beyond me.. even if she had managed to comply with ATC she was likely to encounter some very dangerous wake, or some challenging cross wind if using runway 35.. there but for the grace of God go many of us, particularly the more agreeable ones... RIP to the deceased.
"Turn tight" ! Recipe for a stall 🙄 It seems more experience is needed before confronting a landing at a busy commercial airport. Trained on airfields🙄 Its a bit like only taking driving lessons & test on main roads but not motorways or freeways as think you call there
Shouts AMEN in agreeance to all of you! Let's also not forget to give due respect that atop the aforementioned insanity of forcing near non-existent separation (
I was totally saturated with too much information just watching this imagine how stressed this pilot became after all these go-arounds re sequencing would have been the best
@S Cramer That is exactly i say. These Pipipilots here love to blame all others for pilots errors that her turkey husband was doing. She was only on the radio due she was a student pilot.. See how calm and quick she sounds. Because she was only a copilot that day. 2 pilots doing many GRM mistakes, approach mistakes, and stall mistakes..
@@CFITOMAHAWK This sounds miss informed. Not sure where you got the information from, but both the video and the NTSB report stated that the woman was the PIC of this flight.
@@frankwu4839 I can tell by the quick and clear responses. When you are busy doing those turns in high winds in that rush, you take longer to respond to ATC. Specially a student pilot like that woman was. Her husband had a PPL not her.
Man, as a private pilot, this is EXACTLY the examples and 'conversations' that need to be had... to save lives. Thank you ASI! Please keep them coming as you are helping me become a better private pilot for sure!
As soon as ATC said “Turn left heading 30 degrees,” I was wondering if he meant to turn left by 30 degrees or if he meant to fly the heading of 30 degrees. He did say “heading 30 degrees” so I assumed he meant to fly heading 30, just like the pilot did. Not cool ATC, not cool at all.
Yeah this would have confused anyone. No idea why he didn’t say turn left to a heading of 210. ATC under the pump failed under pressure. Feel so bad for the cirrus occupants and the ATC will have to live with this for the rest of his life :(
Controller fatigued the pilot with needless relentless bombardment of orders in an obvious high-stress situation. Send her out--way out--to reset herself. She's not a fighter pilot.
This is by far the best comment. I got stressed just by listening. Also, wth tell her to do a close traffic right after go around? Tell her fly rwy heading for a climb and then tell her to turn once stablished on pattern altitude. This is so aggravating.
She had two chances to land on runway 35 but did not get her plane down in time on either one, which turned her situation into a nightmare....What that her fault or an issue with the wind or not enough space in which to descend after the first go-round? Sad situation, for sure.
paperchasin23 congrats you win the dumbest comment award. This was just as much on the controllers as it was her so does that mean we shouldn’t let men work in the control tower?
Experience ATC prejudice to small aircraft daily. When flying for my income, in larger aircraft, I am treated normally. When getting into my PA28 to fly home after work, (from the same airport) the the tone of the controllers (to stay safe, think "coordinators") is different. Have been given the runaround as recently as yesterday. This would max out the abilities of a low time pilot who believes that ATC are in charge. ATC does good work. They will sometimes try to kill you. I think of ATC as my best friend....but he is drunk and has the hots for my wife, so I watch him every minute.
daniel Goodson I have read thousands of comments on TH-cam in my life. Your statement about ATC akin to your drunken best friend with the hots for your wife is one of the funniest things I’ve ever read, thanks for the laughter!
When I had maybe 100 hours I was flying mid-field in a pattern when, right after clearing another a/c for an instrument approach on the same runway, the controller cleared me to land. I was at least two minutes or so from being ready to turn base and I knew the a/c on approach was likely to get there at about the same time, but I accepted the clearance and continued to fly the downwind towards the approaching a/c. "What are you doing there?" the controller asked me 30 seconds later, "there's a plane on the ILS coming right at you, turn right heading xxx immediately!" I acknowledged the turn, re-entered the pattern again and landed safely. It was the last time I didn't challenge a controller when I feared he/she was making an error putting my aircraft in peril.
David Schechter next time don’t wait challenge something that doesn’t sound right don’t wait. Also the tower doesn’t clear anyone for an instrument approach they clear them to land from the approach. We all need to remain vigilant when we fly.
I don’t know where you are flying from. But I too fly a larger aircraft for work and fly home in a 150. I don’t ever experience prejudice as you say. I am assertive in what I ask for. Now I once had a UAL 757 captain flip me the bird after ATC held him up so I could pass by lol
This reminds me of driving a Mini Cooper on a 4 lane highway, surrounded by massive semi trucks all doing 100mph, trying to cross lanes to get to an exit you know is coming up but can't even see. Stuff of nightmares. Poor lady pilot. She was trying to keep so calm.
Excuse me George. I've been a pilot for 46 years. I always do my research before you flying into any airport, as is required. class B airspace is designated that for a reason. In addition, look at the sectional chart. There are other smaller airports within vicinity.
A Mini Cooper in a 4 lane with Semis doing over 85 knots (sorry, the conversion instinct just kinda kicks in mentally sometimes)... Whisky Tango Foxtrot man... What kinda Euro Speedway Autobahn bullshizz is this and where do I find a video? XD
I’ve been flying for 23 years and I’ve never heard such conflicting and confusing instructions from a class B airport tower. I’ve learned over the years that airfields have a like minded mentality amongst it’s controllers. That’s due to their respective leadership. And good leadership results in good training. And I heard bad training here. Yes they know how to move Southwest planes around, but they clearly struggle with keeping GA in sequence. I’ve never flown into KHOU but I’m going to do extra homework for it in case I do.
My stress levels went through the roof listening to this. Why on earth would you clear her with a 737 right behind her? I get so tired of controllers treating GA like a nuisance that they are obligated to deal with. Then came all the nonsensical further orders that would have turned a lot of people’s spacial orientation around. Get her away from the airport in a straight forward fashion, ascertain if she’s fuel critical the sequence her in on a stabilized approach. God damn I’m pissed.
I used to fly out of Ontario Airport. California. At the time it was a Cargo hub so we had a lot of big cargo jets landing there. I flew Cessna 172. 182. and 206 aircraft. More than once the tower asked me to expedite landing as I had a Dc-10, or Boeing 747 on 2 or 3 mile final. I told them I would execute a missed approach to the right and would rejoin the approach behind the traffic on final. More than once they responded with "appreciate, go around approved.".
GA is absolutely a nuisance that ATC is obligated to deal with. As a taxpayer I don’t understand what return I’m getting for subsidizing GA travel by paying for (among other expenses) controllers and the resources they require to support private flying. It also seems insane to me that a Cirrus carrying three people would fly into a major airport servicing the fourth largest city in the country in the middle of the day. What do you expect to happen? There are 737s landing every 45 seconds, and you want to squeeze in there in a 4 seater? Just go to a smaller airport.
As a young civilian pilot I never questioned a controller. However, as a Student Naval Aviator I unlearned that bad habit quickly. On my first dual cross country I was given vectors by a civilian controller to re-sequence for traffic behind me during my approach. I was behind in the cockpit (which, I am sure, is why the re-sequence) and I was about to acknowledge when I was cut off by my instructor, "Negative tower. We are fine right where we are." That was the moment of my flying career when I learned what it really means to be PIC.
I remember my first flight instructor say : "when you crash, the folks in the tower get another cup of coffee". Not meant to be insulting or degrading, just matter of fact.
Something to keep in mind for every pilot, certainly. She was clearly getting flustered and stressed out. She shouldve declared an emergency, and she would have had she known that little wisdom.
Yes, people have to remember this. ATC aren't your boss, if you crash and burn, they don't die, you do. ATC are there to help you, they're customer service and you're their customer but if they're not doing what you need, you can push the issue and force them to get it done. They're not going to have a boeing land on top of you just because you're being obstinate.
As a controller (former) for 23 years, I noticed immediately the controller errors. Most controllers are not aware of the multi tasking that goes on for a single pilot aircraft. My Navy experience of working fighter aircraft gave me that perspective. I have worked a 747 British Airways jet with a bomb threat. Private jets with fires on board, fighter jets that lost an engine. Pressure failures. One of the most important things a controller can do is to give the pilot a chance to get their bearings. These controllers made the first mistake in under estimating the speed differences between the small plan and the 737's. Stationed in Iceland, I often worked helicopters on final with F4's on 15 mile final. Even then it was close. Asking a small plane to keep its speed up as long as possible on final is not a good request as it is the most critical part of the flight. The use of heading and 30 degrees was not prescribe phraseology and this was totally on the controller. This most likely caused the pilot disorientation. Of course the pilot wanted to comply as she seemed to feel she was the burden. In fact, I feel the controller mismanaged their role and in started badly and ended worse. Both were found to be at fault correctly. But the first approach she was lined up and the controller catered to the airline who was second on final and took the private aircraft around. This was most likely due to pressure from the airlines to keep the traffic on time. Something that no one wants to admit. Each aircraft has the right to land. You are in order. First come first serve. It seems that the controller disregarded that and gave priority to airline traffic over general aviation. That's political not practical. It might be annoying for the airlines, but they blame weather on ATC so deal with. The job of controllers is the safe, expeditious movement of aircraft. Not favoring one over the other. 99.9 percent of the pilots I worked with (5 Years Navy-17 ZJAX Center) were amazing and professional. As a pastor, I would rather listen to your complaint than do your funeral. Keep it safe out there.
So, as a controller you would rather send an airliner on a delicate, difficult, and potentially catastrophic go-around, rather than a single prop (not even complex, so no gear) for which a go-around is a piece of cake that even a student pilot can do? Especially when you are trying to accommodate her and she says that she cannot land when on a 1-mile final from the runway? (goodness, had she ever practiced short approaches as required for PPL?) Agree on the mistakes on the 030 and on hoping that this pilot would make it in the middle of the jets which tower got sent to them by approach.. But glad you are not a controller anymore, if your reasoning is "first come first served". The call of go-around for the tiny, simple airplane was the correct choice, expected risk was much lower.
@@webcucciolo "...delicate, difficult and potentially catastrophic" for the 2 pilot aircraft but "not even complex" for the aircraft experiencing 3 fatalities after being asked twice to land with a rear quartering wind. Astonishing that your already edited comment lands on the conclusion that you are : "...glad [that the ex-military controller starting this thread is] not a controller anymore". GA Pilots everywhere most definitely hope that you're not one.
@@arcanondrum6543 Not a controller, but a Commercial + IFR + multi GA pilot who can do a short approach landing when one mile from a runway, and knows that on go-around you do not take all notches of flaps out before being in climbing attitude and above stall speed (including load factor). Also, a GA pilot who avoids tasks above my level of skills, for example I have landed in O'Hare only once
@@webcucciolo Can't take you seriously when you omit critical pieces of information. It wasn't just a go-around, it was a busy Bravo airport with 20Kt gusting winds for fairly new pilot type of go-around. If you're a super awesome pilot that doesn't make any mistakes, good for you. My instructor always told me the aviation community is full of idiots, seems he's not wrong.
Imagine being that family member fighting cancer, to then hear your family that were coming to visit you, have died in a plane crash. That has to be the worst second hand guilt anyone could face, thinking that if they didn't have cancer their family would still be alive...
@@landonp629 I guess hours don't necessarily equate to quality learning. For instance I feel a lot of pilots could gain some valuable lessons from far fewer hours flying radio control planes. Such things as; stall speeds (with and without flaps), recovery from spins and wind effects can be easily induced and observed. You can throw the "little toys" around while; no one gets hurt, the costs are far less and real aviation lessons can be learned in a "realistic" environment. I can bet she never flew an aerobatic rc plane. I can say some of the best aerobatics rc pilots I've known were also proficient "actual" pilots. I'm certainly not understating the value of regular training but opportunities to safely push boundaries to extremes can be important to overall understanding. As the saying goes "calm sea's don't make good sailors". Of course there was a chain of events that went wrong, not excusing the ATC jumble, but the unrecognized stall condition was the most major factor in the crash to me.
I once had a veteran U.S. Navy pilot tell me, "Everyone on the ground is trying to kill you." And it did sound as if she was trying to be pleasing, and cooperative. She probably should have just gone to an alternate, less hectic airport (if possible).
I actually lived about three miles from Hobby at the time of the accident and remember it very well. In fact my house was under main route that tended to serve for landings (don't ask me which). I remember many days where the 737's would come in one after the other like that for hours at a time. Hobby has the majority traffic from SW. and they're all 737's. And there are like tons of small airports in the Houston area. I agree it was crazy.
@j Madden My flight instructor told me several times: even when it sounds like the controllers are busy (and they are), they're on ground, maybe having a cup of coffee! You're in the air, flying! You need to get back on the ground, safely! Don't stress with what they tell you (which isn't easy). But still a nice reminder to Aviate, Navigate and lastly Communicate. May those 3 people rest in piece. :(
Ellington, Pearland, and Houston Southwest airports all within 10 miles of Hobby. She would have flown right near Sugar Land on her way to Hobby. While I know the FAA gives equal access to all planes, she should not have tried to land her golf cart with wings at such a busy airport.
I knew the moment you said it was a Cirrus I knew it was this incident. This incident haunts me. In my opinion this pilot was so distracted and trying to please the controller.
I also recognized the accident immediately. I have nearly 10 times the hours this pilot had, but I’ve had my own “B confusion”. Consequently, I believe flying into one of Houston’s reliever airports would have been wiser, and undoubtedly simpler-much less distracting without having to fit into “big iron” traffic. But ATC’s confusing and contradictory instructions were deplorable. Once she had been cleared to land the first time, she should have been allowed to land. When the controller screwed up spacing, a viable alternative was to send the 737 around-much less likely that a go around by an experienced professional crew would result in a tragedy.
Pilot here has the ultimate authority and carries the ultimate responsibility, but tower was not helping the situation with their multiple and varying instructions. They should have realized there was a problem earlier and then could have done more to set this pilot up for success. I cringed when the second controller started with "Either 4, might swing you to 35, etc." after so many botched attempts. Very sad. Thanks to ASI for produce these excellent videos so we can all learn from the mistakes of others.
No it wasn't. You should know what you're getting into when flying into a class B airport. They're not used to single-engine underpowered prop planes. Pilot should have selected a smaller airport nearby, I'm sure there were plenty.
@@thecomedypilot5894 was thinking this myself. There's almost never a situation where the only option is to fly into a busy class B airport. Why in the hell did she HAVE to fly into KHOU when there's probably at least half a dozen GA-friendly airports within 20 miles of there?
I'm here staring at my computer, with a clear graphic representation of everything, and all the communications printed out, and no one's life on the line, and I still felt easily overwhelmed by what was being asked and amended. I can only imagine how much worse it must have been for the pilot in this situation.
I don't even fly and the first thing she said was "1,500 feet" and the hair on the back of my neck went up. You knew something bad was going to happen. No margin. She should have had the right to land, and land now.
Nobody seems to want to mention that, but it was one of the first things i noticed. the woman's femininity influenced her to be polite and deferential to the assertive male. i have lived in asia for a long time so i notice that kind of behavior -- the women here do it a lot.
@@peterhunt135 I understand your point; but you and many others in aviation are overlooking two things. 1) It takes 2 to tango; the ATC might be less accommodating to a 'feminine' pilot, 2) Men _also_ defer to perceived Authority figures even to the point of life and death, this can be observed in several of these accident studies and in Historical and recent events. ___ --ATC is a powerful but Non-Primary authority for the pilot, this appears to set up a competing priorities problem? ATC in most cases, does not possess pilot training, similar to the person they are 'controlling'. I don't have the aviation knowledge to propose a solution, but it seems to be a basic issue??
@@micaheiber1419 Right you think 'terrible experiments' don't yield usable data. I agree they were terrible also, but I'm not sure they were worthless. So then look at plain old human psychology. Study High School Cliques, Street Gangs, War Crime reports, the McDonald's case where a phone caller ordered a manager to order a subordinate to disrobe etc. Honestly this kind of thing occurs _every day_ in real life. It's not that hard to observe right?
Wow! So sad. I’ve watched maybe 20 of these things and they are extremely well written, well thought out and narrated. I don’t ever plan to fly a plane but i am really amazed at how complex it is. I am from a medical background and the principles, especially related to surgery and anaesthesia are very similar. And catastrophic results are more often than not, a combination of errors......not just one error.
I don't think so, the controller actually tried to help, that's why he was so casual, I think he even said "don't worry take your time mam" a few times. But of course re-sequencing would be better
I am a new PPL and I used this situation for two flight practices. 1. Crossing the controls properly and learning to decrease altitude quickly and safely. 2. Learning to assert myself if the controller asks me to do a manouver that is outside safety margins.
I am writing this comment as a pilot myself. I was blessed to be taught by pilots who had plenty of time as PIC. One of them was a combat pilot in his previous life as was an istructor as his retirement job. My father ended up being licensed years after me but with different instructors. I bring this up because there is a difference in how to communicate with controllers and how we view our relationship to ATC. My instructors stressed that the pilot is the one in charge. Over and over they stressed that lesson. It is so important that pilots have that deeply ingrained in their training. YOU are in charge. Know your limits and assert yourself. The controllers in this situation did not purposely do anything wrong, nor were they wildly out of norms. However, situation put the pilot out of her safe zone. She should have recognized that. Safety is above all, do not be afraid to speak up and demand a different course of action and do not be afraid to ask for help or even some extra time and separation. I promise you, when you get back on the ground your fellow pilots will applaud your decision making and ability to know and operate within your limits. No one will make you feel bad or fault you. This accident was an avoidable tragedy and I wish we could go back in time and reassure her and prepare her for this kind of situation. To all of you new pilots out there, respect is earned through self awareness and safety, not daring! Sorry for the long post. I wish everyone out there safe and fun flight. Learn something from this to prove that these people's deaths were not in vain.
If only the rest of the world was as thoughtful and thorough in their evaluations of complicated circumstances as the folks who put out these videos. Kudos!
I, as others have mentioned, was exasperated by all the changes, trying to keep them straight. Each time increased my stress and I'm just sitting here listening to it! Reminds me of that game when you spin around making yourself dizzy and trying to do some sort of task while disoriented! I think she should have been allowed to land the first time, particularly since she was not at fault for being too slow when landing - that was on ATC...
This story continues to break my heart every time I recall it. I'm not a licensed pilot but I have worked in the aviation industry nearly all my life. Although the crash occurred because the pilot lost control of the aircraft, everything that led up to that point was directly attributed to the poor directions given to her by ATC. I think the ATC items should be on the TOP of the list, not the bottom. Had she been allowed to maintain her initial decent and land on the runway she was already cleared for, we'd have three people still alive today.
Re your last sentence, why wasn't the second 73 sent around? Just because its faster, bigger and carrying 100+ people shouldnt give it priority. Hope the controllers are sleeping well at night.
Ultimately the Pilot is in command of that Aircraft. She sounded very timid and did not seem to know what her best approach would be. The ATC is there to guide and support but you as the commander you also have a say
Multiple errors on both sides. However the final error was the pilot raising the flaps, in a turn and below minimal speed. I'm sure she was frustrated by the several missed approaches which led to this tragic accident. But ATC wasn't at fault for the ending.
When started flying out of Scottsdale airport my instructor told me. Remember. The tower will sometimes try and fly you into the mountains. Don’t do it. Start your turn and tell them. Your turning.
What this video failed to mention is the unforgiving stall characteristic of the cirrus aircraft. On a bad day it will take you by surprise. There has been too many accidents in the patern with cirrus aircraft even with experienced flight Instructors. I love the aircraft but i think its made for straight in approaches rather than safe slow flight characteristics that are found in other aircrafts. God rest her soul and comfort her family.
Peter Abadir Are you kidding me? You can hold the stick all the way back and it will just mush around like a Cub. It has super forgiving stall characteristics
Peter Abadir Lots of airplanes, especially high performance ones, will seriously drop a wing in a banked stall, especially towards the higher end of the load limits and CG envelope. Try a banked stall in an aft-CG loaded A36 Bonanza sometime, for example; Yeehaah! is the best way to describe the result. The Cirrus is relatively tame by comparison, but if you're not current in practicing recoveries and you're very close to the ground any of those airplanes can kill you.
The accident records show pretty clearly that the Cirrus is a nasty and unforgiving dance partner. High wingloading and no good way to increase drag for over-obstacle approaches, exacerbated by insufficient attention to crash survivability. Hit a tree at 60 kts with a Bonanza and you have a decent shot of living. In a Cirrus? Meet your maker.
Controllers always give the big boys priority and that's fine and one needs to train for this. I believe the biggest mistake was accepting runway 35. Tailwind and crosswind. She should have declined 35 but she was trying so hard to follow atc thinking they were helping her. RIP.
Yeah this was my thinking too. Decline the runway 35 and go for something else. Looking at Hobby I'm at a loss as to why, with that wind, they didn't have her follow 04 out then setup for a landing on 13. Either way this was painful to listen to. I kept wanting to hear her say "ok control, here's what we're going to do.."
Becoming a Pilot myself, with my Dad being a DPE and one of my brothers being a CFII/MEI, watching this hurts so much. So many lessons to take from this awful situation.
I've studied this accident many times over the previous two years since it happened, this is the absolute best explanation for all of the factors of causation. Well done AOPA! I'm renewing my membership today! (Besides I want the flight bag too! LOL). The community needs more of these videos. Keep up the good work!
@@martintheiss743 Not likely. Winds are in the wrong direction, and it is opposite direction of the incoming traffic. She should've diverted to a locally available, smaller airport. Tragic.
Spa you are absolutely correct. If the winds were in the wrong direction and incoming scheduled planes were rolling in like crazy she should have screamed at the ATC to have her leave.
I am amazed that there did not come a time when landing the Cirrus became a priority. First one controller, then another that took his place, seemed to think the Cirrus had all the time in the world to be jerked this way and that. Neither controller cared one wit about getting that Cirrus down safely and timely.
The same thing was happening on this channel with that guy flying on the edge of weather according to nexrad into waco. These accidents are made when someone decides they have to be somewhere in their plane, risks are taken.
Unfortunate outcome, I teach in class C tower and it sometimes gets busy with corporate jets and sometimes runway use changes (19/01 and 32/14) back and forth within hours. I always tell my students, if the controller starts confusing you and has you changing runway assignments and you don't quite know how, and fuel permits, just tell them that you are going to leave the traffic pattern and then come back in. This way my student can re-orient themselves and mentally prepare for the approach and landing. It is like starting over as if they are returning from the practice area or flight. Works everytime. Also use the words student pilot when you get completely flustered, even when you are ATP rated. The controller doesn't know your rating or skill but using those words will put the controller in a different mind set. I.e. Shorter instructions, kid glove approach, etc. It works wonders. Of course Unable also works well.
Back around 1971 I was a student at FIT (Florida Tech). I already had my PPL and so did my best buddy. Anyway, we flew a Piper Cherokee from Melbourne Fl. to Key West. While on final approach the tower told me there was an Airliner approaching fast on my tail. Since I was ahead of him I had the first right to land. However, I was approaching at about 80 kts and the airliner was approaching somewhere around 150 kts. The tower did not direct me to go around because I had landing priority. But the tower obviously didn't want to see 150 passengers panic on a go-around. So the tower asked me: "Cherokee 12345 would you mind going around, there is a jet behind you that will have to go around if you don't". I simply said to the tower, "No problem" and I executed a go around. Then the Captain of the airliner got on frequency and said to the tower. "please thank that pilot, I knew one of us would have to go around and I'm glad it was him and not me". I'm still glad I used my discretion and thought of all the people on board that jet. After all, I was a new pilot and the go-around practice was good for me. I was glad to hear the relief in the Captain's voice. I'll never forget that day. But it seems in the above case the tower didn't consider that the landing traffic, the Cirrus, had the first legal right to land. Just because a faster airplane with lots of people on board does not mean the closer airplane has to give up her right to land. I guess things have changed over the years.
If the runway is clear and there is no emergency landing, then of course it's the pilot choice. However the exact logic you used was also the same logic these ATC controllers and pilot used that ultimately killed three people by unnecessarily disrupting a landing. The ATC assigned the slots and when one of the backend planes came in ahead of schedule it caused all this confusion. Giving this courtesy to the bigger plane for its own mistakes of traveling in too quickly is exactly why three people died and this whole thing would have been avoided. If the initial plane landed correctly as was it's right to do so then a major corporation would have lost some jet fuel that day instead. Sometimes one has to be an asshole to survive because pleasing others just exposes you to the consequences.
@@geronimo5537 My situation was a little different. I was still on a relatively high final for a Cherokee 140. After climbing straight ahead on the go around I simply made an early crosswind turn and got out of the way. I wasn't in a hurry to get down and I was only burning about 6 gals ./hr. It just made sense for me to get out of the way. I'd do it again under similar circumstances.
@@daffidavit yeah I am not saying it was wrong and I would have done the same because no big deal right. I find one go around as fine. But if repeatedly redirected as occurred in this event. Such courtesy to others compounds the risk of failure for yourself. As doing so changing variables of landing each time.
@@geronimo5537 You make a good point. As in most things it "depends". Coincidently, the video at the end of my comment below popped up just after you made your last comment to me. Here is the link. th-cam.com/video/mf3xhjXl454/w-d-xo.html&lc=Ugwci7AuUQCL4Jskom94AaABAg.951w8yn-To397KieYoKSkC ...
@@daffidavit so true, endless variables and endless outcomes. And some say luck does not exist pfffttt. The link just takes me back to the video of this page here.
@@dipayan4264 I would submit that a human life outranks operating costs and tight schedules. The controller should have sent the jet around from the start, or set them up for an approach to a different runway.....not direct this poor woman all over Houston before sending her to her death.
@@KCFlyer2 Problem is you can't predict the outcome. If the outcome was known beforehand ATC would certainly give preference to the smaller aircraft. Also because of larger mass and momentum; it takes much longer distance for larger aircrafts to go around or try a different approach. And if they make any mistake, casualty would be much greater.
I honestly cannot believe how unprofessional the second controller was on the radio, literally chatting with the pilot about what instructions he was *thinking* of giving her, as she was going around... ATC should really be each pilot's least priority, I think we all waste a lot of our capacity in listening out and doing our best to please the controllers and follow their instructions, sacrificing the safety of the aircraft...
No piloting failed to fly the plane raising flaps at to low of an airspeed and not doung anointing about being to high over the runway resulting in all dying. Controllers are clearly not in at fault trying to help her through the mess she created.
Controllers are not the PIC and I think that's a huge problem on the way we train private pilots. We need to train them to exercise their PIC authority.
Ultimately, yes it comes down to the PIC, aviate navigate communicate, abut cmon, those clearances were rubbish, ambiguous in the heat of the moment and confusing. They clearly had a huge impact on the pilots decision making. After she over shot the second final turn, the controllers should have identified that the TWC was not working. Although the last controllers call was long winded and too colloquial, at least he had the sense to start thinking about bringing her onto RWY4 albeit the timing of said call was a huge factor. Her flap retraction timings were clearly a result of her wanting to get out of the deteriorating situation. Prioritisation on both sides of the fence would have saved this poor woman and the passengers.
@@mwilliams2101- The cirrus made a lot of student pilot mistakes. Bad GRM, bad planning, bad skills, bad piloting errors all over. Last of six pilot errors did a fatal low stall produced by a huge student pilot style error . ATC gave lots of options and cirrus driver failed them all. Stop blaming the one outside the pilot seat. You must be one the lazies that avoid practicing GRM when windy (those were the main mistakes,) then the Clumsy Cirrus DRIVER killed all flaps at low speed TWICE-Second time they spun to ground..Blame ATC for that too??. LAzy Wimpy clumsy bad pilots are the problems of the USA GA LOC crashes all over, Not ATC.
I feel like this could've all been avoided if the controller sent the 737 around rather that the Cirrus on the 1st approach. She was already cleared to land as number 2 and made first contact before the 3rd 737. The FAA makes it very clear the ATC is not priority based but first come first serve. Just because the 737 is bigger and more important in the controllers eyes, he/she should've been instructed to go around
Given that I was publicly berated by a center controller a few years ago for taking up their time with a GPS-negative aircraft, I'm utterly convinced that controllers don't give a rat's behind what 14 CFR says about GA traffic. A couple years ago, FAA director Huerta couldn't even remember the FAA regs regarding dropping objects from airplanes. This is the world we live in. GA pilots are second class citizens where the FAA is concerned.
bhc That may be your preference, but it's not in the regulations that ATC must abide by. ATC is first come, first serve. If I'm not in danger from any aircraft in front of me, it's my runway when cleared to land. If that causes a problem for someone else, they can go around. Orderly, consistent rules is what makes our air traffic system work safely for everyone involved, not some arbitrary priority system based on how many passengers a plane can hold.
skydvrboy The first come first serve thing has a loophole for "as circumstances permit." The loophole has become common practice. It will take action by the FAA to get controllers to stop abusing the loophole. Personally, as I already said, I would prefer that nothing change - I don't want to cause dozens of people to miss connections, pilots to get grounded due to crew rest limits, thousands of gallons of jet fuel wasted, etc. A go around should be a non-event for a capable student pilot. (unless you really have to piss)
Get real. You think they are going to make a 737 go around instead of the Cirrus? It costs a fortune to do a go- around. She wasn't flying the airplane and it got them killed. All you people blaming ATC have probably never flown a kite let alone an airplane.
I had a similar stressful landing a few years ago. The stress was high and landing my 172B with an 18 mph crosswind was less than ideal as a student pilot. My ATC was much more helpful and kept communication very simple.
After listening to many ATC videos recently, my first impression was how demanding the situation was and how compliant and cooperative the Cirrus pilot was, so it was saddening to hear that a contributing factor to this tragedy was the pilot's lack of assertiveness. Stress and pressure have such a huge impact on outcome.
This tragedy makes me so angry. I know its easy looking back in hindsight but I feel the controllers were trying to fly the aircraft for her. She needed clear simple instructions rather than all these long wordy transmissions from the controllers. I feel her pain.
What the hell! She was an absolute idiot who couldn't pilot for shit! Kept overshooting the runway and was unable to lose altitude over and OVER AND OVER the fuck again! Come on!
@@bikerboy3k There's 100 other Pilots commenting that don't agree with your rude and one sided assessment. So Thanks for the worthless and insulting comment I'll file it under 'armchair expert bullshit' Regardless of her skill you can hear in the ATC voice and actions that her being overwhelmed wasn't all her fault. Did you even listen to the analysis?
Travis Schpeltinger my mom wasn’t any of those words. Your lack of empathy is sad. Think about their kids including myself and the rest of our family before you say this. I hope one day you understand how messed up you are for saying this.
There are many links in this accident chain of events. The first one that I noticed (and it was never mentioned) is that approach control didn't provide the proper sequencing to allow more spacing for the slower GA aircraft. Next is the controller's constantly changing and confusing instructions. Next is the pilot should have said "unable" when given a runway with a crosswind component of 15 knots and a tailwind too. She probably didn't do the math in the air that quickly, and assumed the controller knew. Most controllers are NOT pilots. In the end, the pilot retracted the flaps too early and created a stall situation without enough altitude to recover. Granted this was due to pressure and task overload. She didn't prioritize and "fly the airplane" first. Ultimately the pilot in command has the SOLE responsibility for the safety of the flight. I remember reading this in the regs many years ago.
Spot on, but I'd say the chain started even earlier than that - when the pilot chose KHOU as destination. Even not knowing how busy that airport is like the locals would know, a quick look at airnav shows an avg of 421 operations per day, 51% commercial traffic. That's an airliner landing every few minutes. There are several great alternates in the area, some close enough that you even see 'em on the map in this video - KEFD and KLVJ being the closest and either would've been a great choice - SIGNIFICANTLY lower traffic and the bulk of it transient or local GA, and either would've added no more than 10 minutes to the drive once on the ground. The pilot was putting themselves into a precarious landing situation before they even got off the ground.
I was thinking the same thing, with increasing fatigue and confusion - getting a priority over the perpetual chain of 737s could be helpful, treating the plane as if it was having an emergency had the potential to save these three people.
If you watched the video you would know the 737 was coming in too fast and the controller failed to instruct them to turn round. A 737 doesn’t have priority, all planes are equal, it doesn’t matter when you’re flying into. It sounds like you need to brush up on your knowledge if you are indeed a student...
@@dovaiS ...not according to the NTSB, they faulted the pilot first (improper go-around) then both ATC's for confusing and non-protocol instructions, they did not fault ATC for re-sequencing the landings (ie. directing the 737's to a holding pattern to clear way for the Cirrus.) Nobody wants to mess with the Heavy's, because of MONEY....and the power behind that Money, but as PIC you have LEGAL POWER and SAFETY on your side.
The 737 is heavier, more difficult to maneuver and carries more souls on board, so there is a bigger risk to divert a big plane than a small plane. The small plane is more agile and can adjust to the pattern of the bigger planes, which is known and is steady, as the approach controllers try to send them in at a given frequency. You would do the same if you were in the front-desk of a business dispatching orders: if there are big orders coming in at a steady pace you accommodate the smaller ones in between.
A lot of accidents in SR20s and SR22s go down like this. The aircraft has a significant tendency to experience uncommanded roll in turning stalls, which has killed many an inattentive pilot in the pattern. Yes, it's the pilot's error in the end, but Cirrus pilots do need to be very aware of this tendency and practice avoiding spins more intensely than in other, more stable aircraft.
These new aircraft like the Cirrus and Lancair platforms are death traps. High stall speeds, nasty characteristics, and absolutely gutless short field performance.
joshuawfinn They are only killing pilots that aren't paying attention to the aircraft. They don't just fall out of the sky. They have to be MADE to do that shit. Not paying attention to power settings, flight control positions, stall speeds in a given configuration, CG changes based on loading and balance, etc. If you are complacent, a good aircraft can kill you as quickly as any prototype test aircraft will. Assume the plane is trying to kill you, and mitigate the risk from there.
It is a notable comparison that a Cirrus is likely to roll without prompt and correct input during a banking stall, while other aircraft (particularly high-wings) require full and aggressive incorrect inputs to force the aircraft into a spin, and can recover simply be neutralizing control inputs. Stability is a factor pilots should consider when flying, and less of it does make it more likely, especially for low hour pilots like myself, that you'll get dangerously far behind the aircraft.
MillionFoul, well said. Given the multitudinous other choices offering similar capabilities with fewer nasty habits, I can't think of a single reason to own a Cirrus or any other of the aircraft like it.
Karl Childers, a Cessna, Bonanza, or Piper would have been recoverable in that situation, this aircraft is not. Also, the Cessna and Piper don't stall at such ridiculously high speeds, and the Bonanza gives gobs of indicators that it's not happy.
I learned to fly from day 1 at Hobby airport. I can tell you the controllers are experts at fitting fast jets and small airplanes into the same airport at the same time. On the 2nd go around she should have requested a divert to Ellington which is literally 5mins away from Hobby with none of the busy commercial jet traffic. It is very doable to squeeze into Hobby in between the stream of Southwest 737's, but you need to be on your A-game.
I don't even like driving in Houston, I drive in either on a weekend or at 5 am same as I drive Atlanta, I'd have taken a smaller airport too but my heart goes out to those on this plane.
FAA regulations include the following two statements : 1) The pilot in command of an aircraft is directly responsible for, and is the final authority as to, the operation of that aircraft. 2) Except in an emergency, no person may operate an aircraft contrary to an ATC instruction in an area in which air traffic control is exercised. Those two statements are at all times in conflict with one another, but unless exactly one statement applies at any given moment, problems will arise. In most circumstances, this doesn't matter, but when things go wrong, at precisely the moment when clarity is needed, it is absent. It would be easy to say that the regulations are unfit for the most important part of their purpose, namely safety. I once observed a row between a pilot who declared an emergency in order to reject an ATC instruction which he felt was unsafe and the controller who issued the instruction, who felt that the pilot's rejection was unsafe. Two people, normally extremely professional, but both angry at what happened and frightened by what might have happened, trying to kill one another is not a pretty sight.
LtRiot I disagree. I‘m sure the pilot here knew that fact by heart too. Learning such facts is easy, but realizing that you are overloaded and drawing the right consequences is extremely hard.
I'm a student pilot and today was day 2 in the air. We did my first power off stall. One of the things my instructor told me was to establish speed and climb before retracting flaps a little, continuing to build speed and maintain climb before retracting flaps more. This video is an excellent way to reinforce the importance of that lesson for me today. These are great. RIP to the pilot.
I learned long ago early in my flight instruction, that if I ever got confused or stressed with air traffic control, to bail out and tell them I wanted to leave their air space and start over. Unless restricted by fuel or severe weather, it's easier and safer to get out, take a deep breath and reorient yourself. This pilot was too nice. She should have told them she was getting confused with the multiple and differing instructions she was getting and wanted to start over. The controllers were more worried about getting her on the ground and out of their way. She was more worried about not upsetting the controllers which is why she (needlessly) apologized for the confusion. The confusion that the controllers created! Remember, pilots, you have lives to worry about. The controllers have schedules to worry about. If you mess up their schedule, they'll eventually get over it. You only have one life. Speak up and stay alive.
@NonyaBusiness! since noone has answered you on that until now. No! Absolutely not! Going into airspace like this is perfectly normal. This is a very bad example of how things went wrong.
@FoxIII Me personally I'd choose to fly into a Delta than a Bravo or even Charlie if one is available (I've flown into two satellite airports in Houston). Small fish in a big pond, or small fish in a small pond? I feel like I have no business going into Hobby if I had to go to Houston in just a C172. Plenty of less-busy Cessna-friendly airports nearby as well.
@NonyaBusiness! IMO, if I may advise...its not so much that you avoid busy airports, but that you you should take steps to anticipate what you may be flying into. Really study the runways and traffic patterns, terrain, etc. beforehand as much as possible so that you have a very clear mental picture priorly. The more you can study and anticipate, the more stress you can offload prior to entering the pattern.
@NonyaBusiness! Hahah, actually even here where I'm based (AUS) I was practicing an ILS approach back home and they wanted me to keep my speed up since there was large traffic behind. Faster approach speed, plus on a different plane than usual, my instructor had the handicap set high! Moral being, small in a big pond with big fish can really cause you to do stuff outside your personal envelope.
I just took my first flying lesson 2 days ago and this scares the crap out of me! This woman sounded like she knew what she was doing and had good hours in the Cirrus. I'm sure there's a lot for me to learn, but I think I'm going to be a very conservative pilot and don't plan to land any where near airports with heavy airliner traffic. Lastly, I would have turned left to 30 degrees as well.
Have a talk about it with your instructor. It will almost certainly be very constructive and help you to alleviate any fears you have. Always remember that no-one will be angry at you for failing to talk when you're busy just flying your plane, aviate and navigate, and only then communicate. Remember that the controller is another person just like you, and that you can negotiate with them to do what's easiest for you. If you're overwhelmed, ask them to let you do a long approach so you have more time, or to go around the pattern without landing. If you're embarrassed to ask, just say you have to run a checklist, even if that's not true. As the Pilot in Command, you always have the final say on what your aircraft is doing, and if you're getting overwhelmed, you have both the right and responsibility to do whatever necessary to reduce your workload. Your instructor will overload you on purpose at times so you can learn to recognize what it feels like, and that is an important feeling. Provided you do your fuel planning correct (you can never have too much fuel provided your weight is good), then you will always have the ability to extend your approach and give yourself time to think. Do not be afraid to use fuel to do an easier approach, it reflects better on you as a pilot to be overly cautious than being brash.
"Sounds like" does not equal "is" unfortunately, and 300 hours is low time. Glass panels can be very distracting if not used properly and we really have no way to gauge how good her airmanship was. However, as I CFI-I, some things do stand out. First, her decent planning. Poor decent planning indicates an underlying control misunderstanding. Ending up high is generally caused by excessive airspeed from diving at the runway. The fastest way down is actually to slow down. My advise is discuss your feelings with your instructor and seek aerobatic training. No, I'm serous. Learn what the airplane can actually do and how to do it and you will be a much better pilot. A scared pilot is much more dangerous. Stick and Rudder is well worth your money.
I wouldn't say avoid air traffic or busy airports. All pilots need to be exposed to this bit they need to be exposed with a strong and well informed instructor. Remember aviate first. Fly the plane. Comply later.
This is a bad example of what ATC usually does. Once she was lined up on her first approach, the controller should have made the 737 behind her go around. Landing traffic behind you does NOT have priority, period! This controller was a complete POS for treating the GA pilot like a 2nd tier aviator. You're PIC of your airplane and if ATC is risking your life, tell them no and deal with them later.
When I watch these, I usually roll my eyes and think "what a reckless moron." This is one of the few that really scare me. It wasn't her fault. The ATC killed her by screwing around and raising tension until she slipped up.
Yeah exactly thats why this one hurt so much because all the mistakes that were made in this video were tiny but cumulative. Sometimes a pilot dying to their own hubris doesn't hurt quite so much to read, but a pilot who is clearly trying to do their best failing is just heartbreaking
There was a big jet that crashed into a mountain in IMC a couple decades back for similar reasons. "XXX Descend 5,000ft" (or whatever it was) and they were about FL200 at the time. Controller meant down 5 to 15,000 - plane hit they mountain at 5. You can hear the cvr online from it - the gpws is howling a good minute or so beforehand, ignored until the end
@@r.daniels1165 If she was assertive with ATC, the outcome might have been different, but if you *have* to be assertive with ATC to prevent an accident, ATC is the one who screwed up.
I was disoriented watching it on my computer I can only imagine being in the Cirrus, too many go-arounds and putting the plane on a runway with a difficult crosswind was the cause of the accident, end of the case
My instructor gave me the greatest advice ever, no matter how many years I had flown. When landing at an unfamiliar, at night or a busy airport, contact the controller inform them that I'm a student pilot, works like a charm.
I am based at KIWS, 20+ miles NW of KHOU. I did a lot of Angel Flights picking up and flying patients to KHOU. Many times I had to "make doughnuts" around the pattern to find the little window of opportunity... but I stopped doing it since it would take me sometimes up to 35+ minutes to fly from KIWS to KHOU... pus the time later to get out of there. Landing at Bravo airspace is an incredibly good learning experience... but not to do regularly in small aircraft. After many experiences like this, I decided to pick and deliver at KIWS... a shorter and faster drive for my passengers... than flying there. I vividly remember my first landing at KHOU...a strong headwind had my, then Cessna 172, doing close to ~45 knots and ATC asking me to speed up or I would have to do a 180 since I had a 737 behind... now I am smiling... not then!
Pilot got flustered during bad situations one after the other and forgot to fly the plane first. Raising the flaps at 62 knots was fatal in a turn. She kept climbing too high maybe not realizing MSL back home was 1000' and HOU was 50', she may have been climbing 1000' too high.
I think you may be onto something there about the altimeter setting - remember that her first two landing attempts had to be aborted because she had too much altitude.
Actually the tower cared a lot. Unfortunately, this care was bad. Too much babbling, too much irrelevant stuff. Confusing the pilot. Who always responded short and precise. Okay, not being able to get the plane down 2 times is a clear pilot error.
I PERSONALLY GOT THE IMPRESSION THAT THE CONTROLLER MADE HER FEEL NERVOUS AND THAT SHE WAS BEING A BIT OF A PAIN. HE SOUNDED IMPATIENT AT CERTAIN POINTS
@@AureliusR *adjusts baseball cap* YEP, REAL NICE DAY TODAY *shifts beer gut* GOING TO GO UP IN MY CESSNA WITH MY WIFE AND KIDS TO DROP THEM OFF AT THE GOLF CLUB. *coughs from get-there-itis* THOSE THUNDERSTORMS SHOULDN'T BE A PROBLEM, I CAN HANDLE FLYING AROUND THEM *winds up on an Air Safety Institute Video* THEN I'LL TOUCH DOWN AT KFLL WITH EXTREMELY LOW FUEL TO GO TO CRACKER BARGEL. SHOULD BE GOOD
I'm not sure what I would have done, but I know I would have been too confused and stressed to land at some point in that sequence. I know I would have planned to land at a GA field, not at a busy commercial airport if at all possible. I fault the controllers for this one. They should never do that to a pilot. Best way to calm a pilot would be to give them an altitude and heading to fly for a few minutes, then re-sequence them giving enough time to get re-oriented to the correct runway, wind speed and direction, etc.
427 my advice is to scream at the ATC after the first or second failure to reassign them to a local more appropriate airport. I say again I think something like HOU is not appropriate as a recreational airport unless the ATC says its a dead time or a light workload opportunity to set up for a landing.
Applying assertiveness can save your life. The challenging communication from the incoming controller, vectoring her to Runway 4 was confusing. So declare an emergency??? Or ask for vectors to assess the situation? What is the right decision here?
@@araoldier2001 As a 360 hr pilot piloting a Cirrus SR22T (similar to her airplane) I stay away from busy class B. This would've stressed me the hell out. But in this situation (I think since I'm not currently under that stress and can think clearly) I hope I would've told them "unable" and then "vector me out of the airspace and lets regroup and line up again." Actually I probably would've just said, "get me out of here and I'll land at one of the class G or D airports not far away." But again I'm sitting here in my desk watching this able to pause and think. This poor lady. But in a light small aircraft, I avoid busy airspace that constantly has heavies flying everywhere. Just in the beginning it was stressing me out watching her cirrus get sandwich'd between two heavies as I was thinking about the wake turbulence!
@@tylerjorgensen24 Exactly. I understand that all airplanes are equal in the eyes of the FAA for landing, but to me it just scream a dick move to try to land your cirrus at a class b airport. I can see if there was no other close option, or it was an emergency... You're little golf cart with wings is trying to land between heavy's flying 2 or 3 times fast, and who are on a tight schedule. Yes, they can go around for you, but that again is a dick move to make them do that - as now all the passengers are at risk of missing connections, and that flight will take a long time to recover from that late landing... All to satisfy the bravado of the small plane pilot. As a private pilot myself, I'd never do this - at least not without trying to find a dead-time in the schedule at that airport. airline schedules are easy to look up on line.
Wow. This is immensely educational. I think this would be an extremely dangerous situation for very many pilots. I really hope I remember this when I get into such a difficult situation and realize the moment I get overloaded and draw the right conclusions. Thank you for this video!
This is one of the best ASI recordings. As pilots, we really need to be prepared to tell ATC what we need. I encounter one or two situations a year where I need to speak up to them.
I had a keep it tight order from a controller during my first round of solos in the pattern. After I landed the last time, and after the congratulations from my cfi, he chewed me a new a$$ for not declining and asking for an extended downwind (which after I thought about it was the right thing to do of course.)
@@llo7816 I understand that, but it was my first solo pattern so that's why my CFI didn't want me doing anything off script. It wasn't complicated at all and I landed perfectly fine.
@Jon JustinTime ...I agree, maybe the "keep it tight" was the trigger that caused her to raise flaps too early and create the stall..... seems that way?
Exactly. Be assertive. Let them know you’re not comfortable and do as advised but not so much as to make yourself completely uncomfortable and overwhelmed.
I think that the lesson from this accident is to realise it when you're getting in over your head and to say so to air traffic control without apology.
And the most important lesson of all: Aviate FIRST, navigate second, communicate third. She was pushing that first part down the list which ultimately led to the crash.
@@rykehuss3435 Low-time pilots are apprehensive to not follow ATC instructions; that comes with a lot of time or an experienced pilot explaining it to you. Sometimes you gotta say "unable"...
Wow I wish air safety institute could review my days, id be the most productive perfect human ever! I love how the reviews cover EVERYTHING its so good. From tones, to pressure, they know it all
I've listened to this a few more times in the last few days and I gotta say, the controller on the horn following the first go-around was a mess. In the same set of calls he tells her to fly RW heading (40) and then in a few, to turn right to 35 -DW...then tells her she needs to keep the turn all the way through into 35-BASE but to be aware of the 7-3 on short final. Then literally after she reads back - and clearly she's trying to figure out WTF he really means - he comes back and says yeah...start your turn to 35-DW now...following it immediately with "I will call your 35-BASE now..." Seriously dude - WTF...If you're gonna actually tell a pilot ambiguous\conflicting information - let alone in the same set of calls - you MUST tell them "cancel that"or "belay that"...something to help frame and clarify what the hell you're intending... I'm not going back on my previous statements about her culpability here but that notwithstanding, this one particular ATC controller was a serious mess...he actually sounded like he was rattled himself in trying to handle a Cirrus in the same airspace as a 7-3
Appalling Controlling technique, and I say that as an experienced Tower and Approach Radar Controller of 24 years. Being proactive and slowing the second 737 down would have been one option. Another would have just been to orbit her in a clear bit of sky until they had a gap. I use this incident as an example to my trainees how NOT to control.
S Cramer - says the person who obviously isn’t a qualified Controller, and if he’s a pilot, an ego the size of a house. ATC is there to assist, and to recognise when there is an issue - especially when they’ve contributed to it.
Oliver Jones 1) Shift change - it’s the responsibility of the transferring Controller to ensure that the following Controller has the full picture, and to ensure any questions are answered. You often see in movies the Controller plugging in, looking out the window and saying “I’ve got it”, unplugging the relieved Controller. Dangerous machismo, and the quickest way to have an incident. I wouldn’t have handed over the position until this was resolved. Traffic responsibility - the fact that there’s already been one go around should ring alarm bells in the Controllers head. I’d be making sure they got in off the second Approach. The tower guys just kept on trying to resolve the situation without slowing down the inbounds - they should have been more proactive to get her in on the second attempt. And as for the multiple runway changes - words fail me. There was no planning, it was just reactive Controlling.
Interesting question. I would say “Pilot disorientation and confusion”, or simply “Pilot fatigue”. But in order to declare an emergency, you have to realise there is one. With the pressure that was being piled on her it’s the last thing she would have realised.
Darren Wheeler may be “task saturation” would have worked. They stressed her out with useless chatter and numerous disorienting turns and runway reassignments. Poor woman. :(
This is such a shame. The pilot was said by everyone to be such a kind woman. The controller on the other hand seems to be vilified, with ATC able to “get a cup of coffee” when they make a mistake, while you die! Whoa! ATC personnel are human too, I guarantee this controller suffered greatly over this. Also when a pilot is kind, accommodating until the end, etc, everyone is afraid to call a spade a spade. The kind lady was a VERY INCOMPETENT PILOT. I don’t mean to be disrespectful of her as a person. It’s a nice day. No amount of communication confusion should cause a pilot to stall and crash the airplane! I just can’t comprehend such a thing. She does sound SO NICE. It hurts to be critical. The controller seems so nice too. I don’t find the controller to be confusing either. She crashed on a nice day due to stress over talking to the tower. She was incompetent in that aircraft and needed more instruction.
Yup. I know plenty of nice people who are terrible drivers. It seems many people here need a villain. I've read many comments talking about Air Traffic Control directing her around in circles, yet failing to mention that it was necessary due to her incompetency. She was clearly stressed and well outside her ability level. If you need to be babied down to the ground, you don't belong in the air in the first place. She seemed like an exceedingly nice lady. Unfortunately now she's a dead nice lady.
Man, this is such a sad incident. Great work by the ASI (as always) -- makes me proud to be an AOPA member. I don't want to Monday morning quarterback, but it irks me that the controller sent the Cirrus around first instead of the 737 behind it. Airline traffic doesn't (read: shouldn't) get priority over GA.
Ian, ATC almost always does that. The day you do a go around, and right abeam the tower, you look *UP* into the cockpit of an F-18, well, that's your wakeup call that you, as a GA pilot, are second class.
The SWA was there 1st, the controller was trying to work her in between planes, she was a dumbass trying to go to that airport with an ez airport right near Hobby.
I'd like to think I would have just broken off the approach and headed for my alternate the moment that confusion about the heading set in. It was pretty clear by that point that the controller was not being helpful.
She never indicated that she was uncomfortable. It's not their fault that she isn't assertive. As a pilot, she has an obligation to remain cool under pressure and she failed. Ridiculously failed. Nothing was mechanically wrong with her plane. She could have easily requested to leave the traffic circle or stated that she was becoming disoriented but didn't.
I'm not in aviation, but a workplace health and safety trainer. Replace the roles of pilot and air control with employee and boss, and you a window into the dynamic of many workplaces. This video therefore makes great study material, for anyone interested in the conditions that lead to serious accidents, at all levels.
I saw about 10 smaller airports nearby. Why she chose Hobby is unclear to me. Personally, I stay away from high traffic airports, particularly if there is a lot of jet traffic. Not worth the stress or the unseen wake turbulence.
@@ninedaysjane2466 She was certainly entitled to land there, the FAA in the US has said so... However, that doesn't mean you should. In Europe you are not even allowed to land general aviation aircraft at such airports. If you ask me, it was a dick move on her part to expect all the 737 heavys coming in at 150 knots to 'move over' for her 70 knot golfcart with wings. These airports are not used to dealing with small GA airplanes.
Ninedaysjane Hobby is not the closet airport to MD Anderson. There are several GA airports that are the same distance from the Hospital where you don’t have to contend with 737s.
So sad that this happened. Controller should have kept things much more simple ... making a gap for her to land rather than trying to squeeze her in between the close 737 landings. She definitely should have kept to the correct flap speeds as well. I agree with others that, once she was given number one for landing, the controller should have sent that 737 around.
Before I ever took my first flight lesson, I used to sit in my car and watch airliners land at Buffalo NY's airport. I monitored ATC communications on a hand held radio. On early evening, 3 airliners were approaching the airport and the controller announced an impending runway change. The tower controllers then seemed to lose control over directing these 3 airplanes for the change in runway. I listened as the 3 pilots in those 3 aircraft worked everything out amongst themselves with just a couple of radio calls. They were quick and decisive. Not your standard way of doing things but it shows that the Pilot is ultimately responsible for the safe outcome of flight.
I'm glad to see ATC took some of the heat but in my estimation ATC s poor performance could have rattled a senior commercial Capt. on any livery . Easy to put most of the blame on the dead pilot of the private aircraft.
@@bobdavies2131 her landing clearance was cancelled by the go around instruction. she or "the sr captain" could not have landed without breaking the rules and had no reason to declare an emergency at that time. don't think you can override ATC like this no matter who you are..
@@asho1735 Pilot's authority ultimately trumps the ATC's. If a pilot feels it's necessary then they can disregard whatever an ATC is telling them. Cases like this accident are why
@@burstingwizard975 Only in case of emergency. There was no emergency here, nor an impossible instruction. A go-around is a very simple maneuver in a single prop.
I am a 747 captain, I have about 100 hours in a SR22 teaching someone to fly it. It's not an easy plane for new pilots to fly on multiple go-arounds/touch and goes or quick up and down turns.
Agree, the cirrus is a slick little piston and requires a lot of discipline with regard to pattern ops. I had about 400 hours TT, a PPL with IR endorsement, all in high wing Cessnas, and when we were looking to purchase a plane for business we considered the Columbia 400 and the Cirrus SR20. Sexy planes, but with my relatively low time in mind we went with an old C182. It’s just a much more forgiving airplane in the pattern. You can see from the report that the pilot retracted flaps on the go arounds at a slower and slower airspeed on each go around. Pilot was probably exhausted on the third try and apparently lost focus on airspeed. Fatigue can build quickly during single pilot ops in Bravo airspace.
I would agree that the controller was not helping the situation. But the pilot seemed willing and was doing the instructions that were being given to her. A decision to be re sequenced should have been obvious after the 2nd go around by both the pilot and the controller. Very sad situation that could have been prevented.
Seems the smart thing to do would have been to get her away from the airport and start all over from further out, and then don't change it again. The 737's kept getting on top of her, and the ATC instructions were confusing.
Ok enough now!
After reading all these comments from private pilots and other pilots or non pilots regarding "the 737 pilots would have been pissed because of going around", i wanna make one thing clear, and i am sure i speak for 99 percent of my colleagues in the cockpits of their airliners around the entire world: As soon as we receive a "GO AROUND", this call alone triggers an automatism with us that is hard to understand or believe by someone who is not flying/ flying commercial. NOT ONE SECOND! we think about our passengers that could now miss their next flight or the fuel we burn because of this, not to mention that we just for that reason carry extra fuel with us. What are you all thinking?? When is listened to this case study i could clearly hear in her voice the rising stress level, the more friendly she became in chatting with ATC the more she showed that the became exhausted and overwhelmed with this situation. What game was ATC playing? And when there would have been another 100 737s on approach, would they have taken her out of her landing clearance for another 100 times? She should have done only one thing, i was "telling" her this several times: Lady, now you DECLARE EMERGENCY. Let me tell you student pilots or private pilots: As soon as you feel uncomfortable tell this ATC immediately and in clear, short sentences! Make it clear: Until here and no further. It is YOU that MUST tell ATC, enough now of missed approaches or changing runways or giving absurd landing runways with absurd crosswinds, i am UNABLE to FOLLOW. I would like to share something with all of you:
I was once on approach to an Airport which normally did not get that type of aircraft we flew in this day. It was a summer day which started sunny but the weather forecast from the morning showed already a large thunderstorm front arriving from the west and crossing the country in the afternoon in an easterly direction. So, while on approach to this airport, we monitored ATC and there was a small PA28 with a pilot and 1 passenger that just had taken off from ED.. and the VFR departure route let him fly out to the north sea, where he came in contact with this front. The pilot then stated he can not follow the route as he would become IFR and he is not IFR rated. He then said he needs to turn around and request radar vectors as his horizontal visibility became zero and all he had left was vertical visibility, but the ocean below him with the humid air above washed out any reference point for him. He then wanted to return to the airport, that's when ATC stated, because of us on approach, and the rule here is IFR before VFR , they need to vector him out to the ocean again to make space for us IFR traffic. The pilot stated he doesn't want to go further out to the ocean as he has no more reference points. I could clearly listen to his voice and i felt his concerns and that he just wanted to go back to the airport and ATC could do anything else then keep him away from us. As ATC had to follow their procedures and the pilot did not know how to handle all this right now i was sure this could have led into a nightmare. In the meanwhile we approached 2500 feet AGL and i called for "Gear Down", then looked at my first officer and we both knew we had to do something. I pressed the transmit button on my control column and said: " D-E..., declare an emergency! NOW! Dont ask, do it,NOW!" ..1 second later: " XXX Tower, D-E... is declaring an emergency " . Immediately ATC took their actions : " airline-callsign, go around, climb and maintain, proceed to .... enter holding at .... " then " D-E..., fly heading ...., RWY ..., number one, cleared to land".
We left our hold after a very short time and then started our approach again and landed. The airport was kinda small for our aircraft and we parked on the apron. I could see the PA28 from my seat, the piper was parked left to us, maybe 100 m away. The pilot was standing next to his aircraft and looked at me. We both looked at each other. This was a moment i will never forget in my life. He didn't look happy at all and i knew i have to talk to him. We shut down our engines and after finishing the checklist i left the cockpit and squeezed through our deboarding passengers, taking the stairs down and went over to the Piper. The pilot was really young, 21 years, and he came into my direction with tears in his eyes saying " i am so sorry ".. I took him in my arms and answered " Stop, Stop, Stop, you did everything right" and i have to admit because of him crying i also had a tear in my eyes .I told him: " i am so glad you made it back , i am really glad seeing you here! " .
After he calmed down, He looked at our aircraft and said: " What a beautiful aircraft, one day i want to become a captain in this". I offered him and his passenger, a friend of him,to come with me and i will show them the cockpit.
It was quite a nice view, his Piper PA28 next to our ......Boeing 747-400.
I am 56 years old, Captain on the Boeing 747-400 and 747-8i and have 23000+ flight hours logged. I am glad that this pilot got the chance to add one more landing to his log book. A chance the lady here did not have anymore. Rest in peace, that's what i really wish the occupants of the Cirrus aircraft.
Nice!
But a quick remark: According EDxx aerodrome that happened in German airspace and so far I can surely state: it is not IFR before VFR or Jet before piston, it is "first come first serve" in theory, "first come best serve" in praxis. In this case ATC should have recognized the best service has to be dedicated to the Piper.
thanks for sharing this experience. It could be a great article.
This made me shed a rare tear, thank you for sharing that.
Wow. What a story, and wisdom right there. And in the context of this video, its post accident analysis and morals of the story, too. Phew. Thank you for taking the time to add your comment and experience to it. It's bound to influence pilots and ACT reading it, with more positive outcomes, decision-making the very likely downstream consequences.
As a low time Pilot with thirty years wrenching on heavy helicopters this one really choked me up. ATC although trying to help kinda sealed this woman's fate by overloading her. It's hard to point fingers but I was getting stressed with the approach changes and go around's , I can't imagine how she felt .
Fly safe.
As a student pilot this sounds like absolute hell to deal with.
I didn't even know the ATC meant to turn 30° to the left, and I'm sitting down on the ground without stress!
@@felobatirmoheb4884 I knew that's what he meant. Sounds like a skill issue to me.
Such a polite and friendly lady. Breaks my heart she didn't make it.
Too polite
She forgot rule 1: fly the plane.
@@johnnyz8423 After the fact is all we have. The PIC is responsible for flying the aircraft, not air traffic control. Not speaking up is the PIC fault. The multiple errors of speed and flap control were critical and she likely got overwhelmed / helmet fire flying into a busy Class B airspace. As a PIC it is your responsibility to operate safely and in this case she sadly failed.
ATC killed her...its disgusting.
@@johnnyz8423 I appreciate your ability to acknowledge the true nature of this tragedy. I am sure no ATP would have wanted this women to be denied the runway so many times, enough that exceeded her skills obviously. But it angers me that many seem to think that the big planes who are making money flying have any more right or need to get on the ground than GA flights. You and I both know that commercial aviation and GA MUST share these resources, just as the big commercial trucks have to share the roads with regular traffic. ATC killed this woman, not the airlines. It is up to them to SEQUENCE traffic, as you know so that there is room for everyone. Even if it means a big plane has to hold or go around. Sure there is no comparison in regard to fuel cost and inconvenience to a larger number of people, but that is not the point. The skies and airports belong to all aircraft and despite their size and importance there MUST be equal access to the resources in the system. Commercial traffic already enjoys the flight levels free of VFR traffic...ATC must learn to do their jobs properly and not make up for their mistakes by killing the smaller planes.
When you absolutely, positively, have to get somewhere on a schedule never - ever - take your aircraft. That was my dad's rule and after he passed and I inhereted his Cherokee I keep this rule close to my heart.
or leave early so you can take time to think and not stress out and make bad decisions
This is so true….if you have to be somewhere at a certain time…don’t fly. Heard another incident when a father took his family to go to a wedding…pressure to be on-time made him push through bad weather with a vfr rating. The outcome was tragic. Don’t be pressured to be somewhere.
You mean don't fly yourself. Lol
That goes for motorcycles as well!
This is nugget of wisdom that has saved so many lives
I am an Australian private pilot and have also flown in the United States.When i saw this video it sent chills through my body. This young lady was treated so badly i was in disbelief. This event was so simple to solve. The 737 should have been instructed to go around. The cirrus would have landed safely. What a tragedy that could have been avoided.My thoughts and prayers of the cirrus are with me always.
My thoughts exactly, the overtaking 737 on the first landing attempt should have been instructed to go around as the cirrus had right of way at this point being at the lower altitude.
@Nabor Simbor That sounds threatening and nasty and yes, criminal.
@Nabor Simbor Suggesting that someone's house be 'beset' was not a good thought. The US is the only country where a mob besetting someone's house is allowed. Happens to judges etc...The rest of it I agree with....
@Nabor Simbor "Weasel words'.. Everyone knows the intentions of a mob surrounding the controller's house
@@scottsmith7051 Exactly. The FAR regulations state that an aircraft that is being overtaken has the right of way.
I’ve been a pilot for 52 years and a 747 Captain for 33 years. NEVER let an air traffic controller jerk you around or tell you how to fly an airplane like they did to this Cirrus pilot. I can’t tell you how upsetting this is to me.
Appreciated. I have 30 years of GA-only pilot and CFI experience, and have never touched a jet. I thought, in addition to your remarks: getting banged around with passengers in an SR20 for hours on a bumpy and gusty day (which I have experienced a fair amount). Then, getting a litany of changes in the pattern at a Class B at the end of the flight. It would be a tall order for me.
I couldn't agree more.. why they kept on trying to squeeze her in between fast moving traffic is beyond me.. even if she had managed to comply with ATC she was likely to encounter some very dangerous wake, or some challenging cross wind if using runway 35.. there but for the grace of God go many of us, particularly the more agreeable ones... RIP to the deceased.
Right
"Turn tight" !
Recipe for a stall 🙄
It seems more experience is needed before confronting a landing at a busy commercial airport. Trained on airfields🙄
Its a bit like only taking driving lessons & test on main roads but not motorways or freeways as think you call there
Shouts AMEN in agreeance to all of you! Let's also not forget to give due respect that atop the aforementioned insanity of forcing near non-existent separation (
I was totally saturated with too much information just watching this imagine how stressed this pilot became after all these go-arounds re sequencing would have been the best
@S Cramer That is exactly i say. These Pipipilots here love to blame all others for pilots errors that her turkey husband was doing. She was only on the radio due she was a student pilot.. See how calm and quick she sounds. Because she was only a copilot that day. 2 pilots doing many GRM mistakes, approach mistakes, and stall mistakes..
I've been ATC almost 30 years and this pisses me off how bad the controlling was.
Me too. Too much!!
@@CFITOMAHAWK This sounds miss informed. Not sure where you got the information from, but both the video and the NTSB report stated that the woman was the PIC of this flight.
@@frankwu4839 I can tell by the quick and clear responses. When you are busy doing those turns in high winds in that rush, you take longer to respond to ATC. Specially a student pilot like that woman was. Her husband had a PPL not her.
Man, as a private pilot, this is EXACTLY the examples and 'conversations' that need to be had... to save lives. Thank you ASI! Please keep them coming as you are helping me become a better private pilot for sure!
As soon as ATC said “Turn left heading 30 degrees,” I was wondering if he meant to turn left by 30 degrees or if he meant to fly the heading of 30 degrees. He did say “heading 30 degrees” so I assumed he meant to fly heading 30, just like the pilot did. Not cool ATC, not cool at all.
I believe this ATC contributed to these people losing their lives.
Yes, very confusing. I would think controllers would use standardized language.
Yeah this would have confused anyone. No idea why he didn’t say turn left to a heading of 210. ATC under the pump failed under pressure. Feel so bad for the cirrus occupants and the ATC will have to live with this for the rest of his life :(
Should have been turn left ZERO THREE ZERO degrees, or turn left 30 degrees to "New Heading"!
I was thinking the same thing 🤔
Controller fatigued the pilot with needless relentless bombardment of orders in an obvious high-stress situation. Send her out--way out--to reset herself. She's not a fighter pilot.
This was so sad to listen to. The poor woman was given so many instructions and changes and unclear directions. Absurd and just so so sad.
This is by far the best comment. I got stressed just by listening. Also, wth tell her to do a close traffic right after go around? Tell her fly rwy heading for a climb and then tell her to turn once stablished on pattern altitude. This is so aggravating.
Awww she’s not a pilot either
She had two chances to land on runway 35 but did not get her plane down in time on either one, which turned her situation into a nightmare....What that her fault or an issue with the wind or not enough space in which to descend after the first go-round? Sad situation, for sure.
paperchasin23 congrats you win the dumbest comment award. This was just as much on the controllers as it was her so does that mean we shouldn’t let men work in the control tower?
Experience ATC prejudice to small aircraft daily. When flying for my income, in larger aircraft, I am treated normally. When getting into my PA28 to fly home after work, (from the same airport) the the tone of the controllers (to stay safe, think "coordinators") is different. Have been given the runaround as recently as yesterday. This would max out the abilities of a low time pilot who believes that ATC are in charge. ATC does good work. They will sometimes try to kill you. I think of ATC as my best friend....but he is drunk and has the hots for my wife, so I watch him every minute.
daniel Goodson I have read thousands of comments on TH-cam in my life. Your statement about ATC akin to your drunken best friend with the hots for your wife is one of the funniest things I’ve ever read, thanks for the laughter!
When I had maybe 100 hours I was flying mid-field in a pattern when, right after clearing another a/c for an instrument approach on the same runway, the controller cleared me to land. I was at least two minutes or so from being ready to turn base and I knew the a/c on approach was likely to get there at about the same time, but I accepted the clearance and continued to fly the downwind towards the approaching a/c. "What are you doing there?" the controller asked me 30 seconds later, "there's a plane on the ILS coming right at you, turn right heading xxx immediately!" I acknowledged the turn, re-entered the pattern again and landed safely. It was the last time I didn't challenge a controller when I feared he/she was making an error putting my aircraft in peril.
David Schechter next time don’t wait challenge something that doesn’t sound right don’t wait. Also the tower doesn’t clear anyone for an instrument approach they clear them to land from the approach. We all need to remain vigilant when we fly.
I don’t know where you are flying from. But I too fly a larger aircraft for work and fly home in a 150. I don’t ever experience prejudice as you say. I am assertive in what I ask for. Now I once had a UAL 757 captain flip me the bird after ATC held him up so I could pass by lol
@@kenclark9888 sounds like you know you deserved, in fun way he intended it, hope you know/or learn the sign language for "wait your turn"
This reminds me of driving a Mini Cooper on a 4 lane highway, surrounded by massive semi trucks all doing 100mph, trying to cross lanes to get to an exit you know is coming up but can't even see. Stuff of nightmares. Poor lady pilot. She was trying to keep so calm.
Except - you have no one telling you - Lane 1- now lane 3 - back to Lane 1 - okay go ahead and exit
Semi trucks going 100mph, wouldnt that be a sight!
Excuse me George. I've been a pilot for 46 years. I always do my research before you flying into any airport, as is required. class B airspace is designated that for a reason. In addition, look at the sectional chart. There are other smaller airports within vicinity.
That's a great analogy.
A Mini Cooper in a 4 lane with Semis doing over 85 knots (sorry, the conversion instinct just kinda kicks in mentally sometimes)... Whisky Tango Foxtrot man... What kinda Euro Speedway Autobahn bullshizz is this and where do I find a video? XD
I’ve been flying for 23 years and I’ve never heard such conflicting and confusing instructions from a class B airport tower. I’ve learned over the years that airfields have a like minded mentality amongst it’s controllers. That’s due to their respective leadership. And good leadership results in good training. And I heard bad training here.
Yes they know how to move Southwest planes around, but they clearly struggle with keeping GA in sequence. I’ve never flown into KHOU but I’m going to do extra homework for it in case I do.
My stress levels went through the roof listening to this. Why on earth would you clear her with a 737 right behind her? I get so tired of controllers treating GA like a nuisance that they are obligated to deal with.
Then came all the nonsensical further orders that would have turned a lot of people’s spacial orientation around.
Get her away from the airport in a straight forward fashion, ascertain if she’s fuel critical the sequence her in on a stabilized approach. God damn I’m pissed.
I was literally barking at the controller, "well putting a 737 4 miles behind her sounds like a YOU problem"
couldn't agree more !
I'm not a pilot, but it almost felt like they were f'ing with her.
I used to fly out of Ontario Airport. California. At the time it was a Cargo hub so we had a lot of big cargo jets landing there. I flew Cessna 172. 182. and 206 aircraft. More than once the tower asked me to expedite landing as I had a Dc-10, or Boeing 747 on 2 or 3 mile final. I told them I would execute a missed approach to the right and would rejoin the approach behind the traffic on final. More than once they responded with "appreciate, go around approved.".
GA is absolutely a nuisance that ATC is obligated to deal with. As a taxpayer I don’t understand what return I’m getting for subsidizing GA travel by paying for (among other expenses) controllers and the resources they require to support private flying.
It also seems insane to me that a Cirrus carrying three people would fly into a major airport servicing the fourth largest city in the country in the middle of the day. What do you expect to happen? There are 737s landing every 45 seconds, and you want to squeeze in there in a 4 seater? Just go to a smaller airport.
As a young civilian pilot I never questioned a controller. However, as a Student Naval Aviator I unlearned that bad habit quickly. On my first dual cross country I was given vectors by a civilian controller to re-sequence for traffic behind me during my approach. I was behind in the cockpit (which, I am sure, is why the re-sequence) and I was about to acknowledge when I was cut off by my instructor, "Negative tower. We are fine right where we are." That was the moment of my flying career when I learned what it really means to be PIC.
U
❤z
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@@SennettCJR
I remember my first flight instructor say : "when you crash, the folks in the tower get another cup of coffee". Not meant to be insulting or degrading, just matter of fact.
Gallows Humor. What do pilots and controllers have in common? When one of them makes a mistake, the pilot dies.
Something to keep in mind for every pilot, certainly. She was clearly getting flustered and stressed out. She shouldve declared an emergency, and she would have had she known that little wisdom.
My instructor used to say "When ATC makes a mistake, the pilot dies. When the pilot makes a mistake, the pilot dies."
Yes, people have to remember this. ATC aren't your boss, if you crash and burn, they don't die, you do. ATC are there to help you, they're customer service and you're their customer but if they're not doing what you need, you can push the issue and force them to get it done. They're not going to have a boeing land on top of you just because you're being obstinate.
Ouch. That’s the truth of it
As a controller (former) for 23 years, I noticed immediately the controller errors. Most controllers are not aware of the multi tasking that goes on for a single pilot aircraft. My Navy experience of working fighter aircraft gave me that perspective. I have worked a 747 British Airways jet with a bomb threat. Private jets with fires on board, fighter jets that lost an engine. Pressure failures. One of the most important things a controller can do is to give the pilot a chance to get their bearings. These controllers made the first mistake in under estimating the speed differences between the small plan and the 737's. Stationed in Iceland, I often worked helicopters on final with F4's on 15 mile final. Even then it was close. Asking a small plane to keep its speed up as long as possible on final is not a good request as it is the most critical part of the flight. The use of heading and 30 degrees was not prescribe phraseology and this was totally on the controller. This most likely caused the pilot disorientation. Of course the pilot wanted to comply as she seemed to feel she was the burden. In fact, I feel the controller mismanaged their role and in started badly and ended worse. Both were found to be at fault correctly. But the first approach she was lined up and the controller catered to the airline who was second on final and took the private aircraft around. This was most likely due to pressure from the airlines to keep the traffic on time. Something that no one wants to admit. Each aircraft has the right to land. You are in order. First come first serve. It seems that the controller disregarded that and gave priority to airline traffic over general aviation. That's political not practical. It might be annoying for the airlines, but they blame weather on ATC so deal with. The job of controllers is the safe, expeditious movement of aircraft. Not favoring one over the other. 99.9 percent of the pilots I worked with (5 Years Navy-17 ZJAX Center) were amazing and professional. As a pastor, I would rather listen to your complaint than do your funeral. Keep it safe out there.
So, as a controller you would rather send an airliner on a delicate, difficult, and potentially catastrophic go-around, rather than a single prop (not even complex, so no gear) for which a go-around is a piece of cake that even a student pilot can do? Especially when you are trying to accommodate her and she says that she cannot land when on a 1-mile final from the runway? (goodness, had she ever practiced short approaches as required for PPL?)
Agree on the mistakes on the 030 and on hoping that this pilot would make it in the middle of the jets which tower got sent to them by approach.. But glad you are not a controller anymore, if your reasoning is "first come first served". The call of go-around for the tiny, simple airplane was the correct choice, expected risk was much lower.
@@webcucciolo "...delicate, difficult and potentially catastrophic" for the 2 pilot aircraft but "not even complex" for the aircraft experiencing 3 fatalities after being asked twice to land with a rear quartering wind. Astonishing that your already edited comment lands on the conclusion that you are : "...glad [that the ex-military controller starting this thread is] not a controller anymore". GA Pilots everywhere most definitely hope that you're not one.
@@arcanondrum6543 Not a controller, but a Commercial + IFR + multi GA pilot who can do a short approach landing when one mile from a runway, and knows that on go-around you do not take all notches of flaps out before being in climbing attitude and above stall speed (including load factor).
Also, a GA pilot who avoids tasks above my level of skills, for example I have landed in O'Hare only once
@@webcucciolo Well, you definitely like to brag. I didn't see anything in your Videos that warranted the Titles.
@@webcucciolo Can't take you seriously when you omit critical pieces of information. It wasn't just a go-around, it was a busy Bravo airport with 20Kt gusting winds for fairly new pilot type of go-around. If you're a super awesome pilot that doesn't make any mistakes, good for you. My instructor always told me the aviation community is full of idiots, seems he's not wrong.
Imagine being that family member fighting cancer, to then hear your family that were coming to visit you, have died in a plane crash.
That has to be the worst second hand guilt anyone could face, thinking that if they didn't have cancer their family would still be alive...
Tower is the problem here. I've NEVER heard so many conflicting orders. The Cirrus pilot is a saint.
No man, she totally blew it.
Inexperienced. What a tragedy
Both of them blew it!
@@patfarra She wasn't really inexperienced. 250 hours is enough to qualify you for commercial pilot license.
@@landonp629 I guess hours don't necessarily equate to quality learning. For instance I feel a lot of pilots could gain some valuable lessons from far fewer hours flying radio control planes. Such things as; stall speeds (with and without flaps), recovery from spins and wind effects can be easily induced and observed.
You can throw the "little toys" around while; no one gets hurt, the costs are far less and real aviation lessons can be learned in a "realistic" environment. I can bet she never flew an aerobatic rc plane. I can say some of the best aerobatics rc pilots I've known were also proficient "actual" pilots.
I'm certainly not understating the value of regular training but opportunities to safely push boundaries to extremes can be important to overall understanding. As the saying goes "calm sea's don't make good sailors".
Of course there was a chain of events that went wrong, not excusing the ATC jumble, but the unrecognized stall condition was the most major factor in the crash to me.
I once had a veteran U.S. Navy pilot tell me, "Everyone on the ground is trying to kill you." And it did sound as if she was trying to be pleasing, and cooperative. She probably should have just gone to an alternate, less hectic airport (if possible).
I actually lived about three miles from Hobby at the time of the accident and remember it very well. In fact my house was under main route that tended to serve for landings (don't ask me which). I remember many days where the 737's would come in one after the other like that for hours at a time. Hobby has the majority traffic from SW. and they're all 737's. And there are like tons of small airports in the Houston area. I agree it was crazy.
@j Madden My flight instructor told me several times: even when it sounds like the controllers are busy (and they are), they're on ground, maybe having a cup of coffee! You're in the air, flying! You need to get back on the ground, safely! Don't stress with what they tell you (which isn't easy). But still a nice reminder to Aviate, Navigate and lastly Communicate.
May those 3 people rest in piece. :(
Yes, divert to Sugarland
@@brunobatista4076 Peace
Ellington, Pearland, and Houston Southwest airports all within 10 miles of Hobby. She would have flown right near Sugar Land on her way to Hobby. While I know the FAA gives equal access to all planes, she should not have tried to land her golf cart with wings at such a busy airport.
If only we had the opportunity to do things over again. RIP to her, she sounded like a class act.
I knew the moment you said it was a Cirrus I knew it was this incident. This incident haunts me. In my opinion this pilot was so distracted and trying to please the controller.
I agree.
I also recognized the accident immediately. I have nearly 10 times the hours this pilot had, but I’ve had my own “B confusion”. Consequently, I believe flying into one of Houston’s reliever airports would have been wiser, and undoubtedly simpler-much less distracting without having to fit into “big iron” traffic.
But ATC’s confusing and contradictory instructions were deplorable. Once she had been cleared to land the first time, she should have been allowed to land. When the controller screwed up spacing, a viable alternative was to send the 737 around-much less likely that a go around by an experienced professional crew would result in a tragedy.
What a tragedy 😪
Pilot here has the ultimate authority and carries the ultimate responsibility, but tower was not helping the situation with their multiple and varying instructions. They should have realized there was a problem earlier and then could have done more to set this pilot up for success. I cringed when the second controller started with "Either 4, might swing you to 35, etc." after so many botched attempts. Very sad. Thanks to ASI for produce these excellent videos so we can all learn from the mistakes of others.
Willa Herrera , I’m with you. This was so sad and haunting to watch and listen to.
That was some really crappy controlling! I say this as a retired controller of 31 years.
No it wasn't. You should know what you're getting into when flying into a class B airport. They're not used to single-engine underpowered prop planes. Pilot should have selected a smaller airport nearby, I'm sure there were plenty.
@@thecomedypilot5894 was thinking this myself. There's almost never a situation where the only option is to fly into a busy class B airport. Why in the hell did she HAVE to fly into KHOU when there's probably at least half a dozen GA-friendly airports within 20 miles of there?
"I'll just land on the nearest interstate highway ,I'll figure out the heading on my own."52 gulf over.
I'm with you man, this controller gave her a run around. He needed to give her a solid minute and make her a priority.
I'm here staring at my computer, with a clear graphic representation of everything, and all the communications printed out, and no one's life on the line, and I still felt easily overwhelmed by what was being asked and amended. I can only imagine how much worse it must have been for the pilot in this situation.
I don't even fly and the first thing she said was "1,500 feet" and the hair on the back of my neck went up. You knew something bad was going to happen. No margin. She should have had the right to land, and land now.
Polite and accommodating to the end of her life. Damn.
Nobody seems to want to mention that, but it was one of the first things i noticed. the woman's femininity influenced her to be polite and deferential to the assertive male. i have lived in asia for a long time so i notice that kind of behavior -- the women here do it a lot.
Peter Hunt - good point
@@peterhunt135 I understand your point; but you and many others in aviation are overlooking two things.
1) It takes 2 to tango; the ATC might be less accommodating to a 'feminine' pilot,
2) Men _also_ defer to perceived Authority figures even to the point of life and death, this can be observed in several of these accident studies and in Historical and recent events.
___
--ATC is a powerful but Non-Primary authority for the pilot, this appears to set up a competing priorities problem?
ATC in most cases, does not possess pilot training, similar to the person they are 'controlling'.
I don't have the aviation knowledge to propose a solution, but it seems to be a basic issue??
JJGates I couldn't have said it better.
@@micaheiber1419 Right you think 'terrible experiments' don't yield usable data. I agree they were terrible also, but I'm not sure they were worthless.
So then look at plain old human psychology. Study High School Cliques, Street Gangs, War Crime reports, the McDonald's case where a phone caller ordered a manager to order a subordinate to disrobe etc.
Honestly this kind of thing occurs _every day_ in real life. It's not that hard to observe right?
Wow! So sad. I’ve watched maybe 20 of these things and they are extremely well written, well thought out and narrated. I don’t ever plan to fly a plane but i am really amazed at how complex it is. I am from a medical background and the principles, especially related to surgery and anaesthesia are very similar. And catastrophic results are more often than not, a combination of errors......not just one error.
Yeah I feel exactly the same way. Not a pilot at all but these are just life lessons being taught here, just accelerated and high-stakes.
I could hear in the controllers' voices that they were impatient with the pilot. I think she could hear that also.
He reminded me of an impatient teenager the way he huffed and puffed.
yeah, that controller sucked
I don't think so, the controller actually tried to help, that's why he was so casual, I think he even said "don't worry take your time mam" a few times. But of course re-sequencing would be better
@@ggurks He was too casual. He was, in other words, unprofessional.
@@Raison_d-etre That's true. But I'm talking about why he was so casual. It's not because he was impatient, but because he wanted to help
I am a new PPL and I used this situation for two flight practices. 1. Crossing the controls properly and learning to decrease altitude quickly and safely. 2. Learning to assert myself if the controller asks me to do a manouver that is outside safety margins.
I am writing this comment as a pilot myself. I was blessed to be taught by pilots who had plenty of time as PIC. One of them was a combat pilot in his previous life as was an istructor as his retirement job. My father ended up being licensed years after me but with different instructors. I bring this up because there is a difference in how to communicate with controllers and how we view our relationship to ATC. My instructors stressed that the pilot is the one in charge. Over and over they stressed that lesson. It is so important that pilots have that deeply ingrained in their training. YOU are in charge. Know your limits and assert yourself. The controllers in this situation did not purposely do anything wrong, nor were they wildly out of norms. However, situation put the pilot out of her safe zone. She should have recognized that. Safety is above all, do not be afraid to speak up and demand a different course of action and do not be afraid to ask for help or even some extra time and separation. I promise you, when you get back on the ground your fellow pilots will applaud your decision making and ability to know and operate within your limits. No one will make you feel bad or fault you. This accident was an avoidable tragedy and I wish we could go back in time and reassure her and prepare her for this kind of situation.
To all of you new pilots out there, respect is earned through self awareness and safety, not daring!
Sorry for the long post. I wish everyone out there safe and fun flight. Learn something from this to prove that these people's deaths were not in vain.
The value of these videos cannot be overstated enough. Thank you
If only the rest of the world was as thoughtful and thorough in their evaluations of complicated circumstances as the folks who put out these videos. Kudos!
I, as others have mentioned, was exasperated by all the changes, trying to keep them straight. Each time increased my stress and I'm just sitting here listening to it! Reminds me of that game when you spin around making yourself dizzy and trying to do some sort of task while disoriented! I think she should have been allowed to land the first time, particularly since she was not at fault for being too slow when landing - that was on ATC...
How god damn frustrating to listen to. “Proficiency is somewhat subjective” that goes for the ATC too. 😞
This story continues to break my heart every time I recall it. I'm not a licensed pilot but I have worked in the aviation industry nearly all my life. Although the crash occurred because the pilot lost control of the aircraft, everything that led up to that point was directly attributed to the poor directions given to her by ATC. I think the ATC items should be on the TOP of the list, not the bottom. Had she been allowed to maintain her initial decent and land on the runway she was already cleared for, we'd have three people still alive today.
Re your last sentence, why wasn't the second 73 sent around? Just because its faster, bigger and carrying 100+ people shouldnt give it priority.
Hope the controllers are sleeping well at night.
She also had drugs in her system failed to descend to runway twice and didn't have enough airspeed.
Ultimately the Pilot is in command of that Aircraft. She sounded very timid and did not seem to know what her best approach would be. The ATC is there to guide and support but you as the commander you also have a say
Multiple errors on both sides. However the final error was the pilot raising the flaps, in a turn and below minimal speed. I'm sure she was frustrated by the several missed approaches which led to this tragic accident. But ATC wasn't at fault for the ending.
When started flying out of Scottsdale airport my instructor told me. Remember. The tower will sometimes try and fly you into the mountains. Don’t do it. Start your turn and tell them. Your turning.
What this video failed to mention is the unforgiving stall characteristic of the cirrus aircraft. On a bad day it will take you by surprise. There has been too many accidents in the patern with cirrus aircraft even with experienced flight Instructors. I love the aircraft but i think its made for straight in approaches rather than safe slow flight characteristics that are found in other aircrafts. God rest her soul and comfort her family.
Peter Abadir Are you kidding me? You can hold the stick all the way back and it will just mush around like a Cub. It has super forgiving stall characteristics
Curt Lewis ok but please dont try it with a bank angle. Too many lives lost. Read the reports.
@@westparkdentalofoceantowns8365 doesn't matter. AoA is AoA
Peter Abadir Lots of airplanes, especially high performance ones, will seriously drop a wing in a banked stall, especially towards the higher end of the load limits and CG envelope. Try a banked stall in an aft-CG loaded A36 Bonanza sometime, for example; Yeehaah! is the best way to describe the result. The Cirrus is relatively tame by comparison, but if you're not current in practicing recoveries and you're very close to the ground any of those airplanes can kill you.
The accident records show pretty clearly that the Cirrus is a nasty and unforgiving dance partner. High wingloading and no good way to increase drag for over-obstacle approaches, exacerbated by insufficient attention to crash survivability. Hit a tree at 60 kts with a Bonanza and you have a decent shot of living. In a Cirrus? Meet your maker.
Controllers always give the big boys priority and that's fine and one needs to train for this. I believe the biggest mistake was accepting runway 35. Tailwind and crosswind. She should have declined 35 but she was trying so hard to follow atc thinking they were helping her. RIP.
Yeah this was my thinking too. Decline the runway 35 and go for something else. Looking at Hobby I'm at a loss as to why, with that wind, they didn't have her follow 04 out then setup for a landing on 13. Either way this was painful to listen to. I kept wanting to hear her say "ok control, here's what we're going to do.."
@@callbackdons Or why not have gone for Rwy 17? Would have kept her away from the big boys - and made the wind more favourable!
Becoming a Pilot myself, with my Dad being a DPE and one of my brothers being a CFII/MEI, watching this hurts so much. So many lessons to take from this awful situation.
I've studied this accident many times over the previous two years since it happened, this is the absolute best explanation for all of the factors of causation. Well done AOPA! I'm renewing my membership today! (Besides I want the flight bag too! LOL). The community needs more of these videos. Keep up the good work!
Hey Spa why not tell ATC you want to use 22 instead of 04? Would that work?
@@martintheiss743 Not likely. Winds are in the wrong direction, and it is opposite direction of the incoming traffic. She should've diverted to a locally available, smaller airport. Tragic.
Spa you are absolutely correct. If the winds were in the wrong direction and incoming scheduled planes were rolling in like crazy she should have screamed at the ATC to have her leave.
When they say clear to land- you own that runway! She should of landed the first time.
I am amazed that there did not come a time when landing the Cirrus became a priority. First one controller, then another that took his place, seemed to think the Cirrus had all the time in the world to be jerked this way and that. Neither controller cared one wit about getting that Cirrus down safely and timely.
The reason they were flying to Houston was to visit a relative undergoing cancer treatments -- probably a pretty high baseline of stress right there.
The same thing was happening on this channel with that guy flying on the edge of weather according to nexrad into waco. These accidents are made when someone decides they have to be somewhere in their plane, risks are taken.
Don't fly then
@@cjr1881 exactly don't scud run. Or catch a scheduled flight
Unfortunate outcome,
I teach in class C tower and it sometimes gets busy with corporate jets and sometimes runway use changes (19/01 and 32/14) back and forth within hours.
I always tell my students, if the controller starts confusing you and has you changing runway assignments and you don't quite know how, and fuel permits, just tell them that you are going to leave the traffic pattern and then come back in.
This way my student can re-orient themselves and mentally prepare for the approach and landing. It is like starting over as if they are returning from the practice area or flight.
Works everytime. Also use the words student pilot when you get completely flustered, even when you are ATP rated. The controller doesn't know your rating or skill but using those words will put the controller in a different mind set. I.e. Shorter instructions, kid glove approach, etc.
It works wonders.
Of course Unable also works well.
saying student pilot dose not work all the time. trust me on that
Back around 1971 I was a student at FIT (Florida Tech). I already had my PPL and so did my best buddy. Anyway, we flew a Piper Cherokee from Melbourne Fl. to Key West. While on final approach the tower told me there was an Airliner approaching fast on my tail. Since I was ahead of him I had the first right to land. However, I was approaching at about 80 kts and the airliner was approaching somewhere around 150 kts. The tower did not direct me to go around because I had landing priority. But the tower obviously didn't want to see 150 passengers panic on a go-around. So the tower asked me: "Cherokee 12345 would you mind going around, there is a jet behind you that will have to go around if you don't". I simply said to the tower, "No problem" and I executed a go around. Then the Captain of the airliner got on frequency and said to the tower. "please thank that pilot, I knew one of us would have to go around and I'm glad it was him and not me".
I'm still glad I used my discretion and thought of all the people on board that jet. After all, I was a new pilot and the go-around practice was good for me. I was glad to hear the relief in the Captain's voice. I'll never forget that day. But it seems in the above case the tower didn't consider that the landing traffic, the Cirrus, had the first legal right to land. Just because a faster airplane with lots of people on board does not mean the closer airplane has to give up her right to land. I guess things have changed over the years.
If the runway is clear and there is no emergency landing, then of course it's the pilot choice. However the exact logic you used was also the same logic these ATC controllers and pilot used that ultimately killed three people by unnecessarily disrupting a landing. The ATC assigned the slots and when one of the backend planes came in ahead of schedule it caused all this confusion. Giving this courtesy to the bigger plane for its own mistakes of traveling in too quickly is exactly why three people died and this whole thing would have been avoided. If the initial plane landed correctly as was it's right to do so then a major corporation would have lost some jet fuel that day instead.
Sometimes one has to be an asshole to survive because pleasing others just exposes you to the consequences.
@@geronimo5537 My situation was a little different. I was still on a relatively high final for a Cherokee 140. After climbing straight ahead on the go around I simply made an early crosswind turn and got out of the way. I wasn't in a hurry to get down and I was only burning about 6 gals ./hr. It just made sense for me to get out of the way. I'd do it again under similar circumstances.
@@daffidavit yeah I am not saying it was wrong and I would have done the same because no big deal right. I find one go around as fine. But if repeatedly redirected as occurred in this event. Such courtesy to others compounds the risk of failure for yourself. As doing so changing variables of landing each time.
@@geronimo5537 You make a good point. As in most things it "depends". Coincidently, the video at the end of my comment below popped up just after you made your last comment to me. Here is the link. th-cam.com/video/mf3xhjXl454/w-d-xo.html&lc=Ugwci7AuUQCL4Jskom94AaABAg.951w8yn-To397KieYoKSkC ...
@@daffidavit so true, endless variables and endless outcomes. And some say luck does not exist pfffttt. The link just takes me back to the video of this page here.
This bothers me everytime I see it. The Cirrus was cleared to land. That should have been it. The 737 should have been sent around.
Correct. Once she was cleared to land, she should have asserted that clearance.
That is tragic. ATC prioritised landing clearance for the larger aircraft.
It's because of the operating costs of the larger aircrafts and tight schedule.......
@@dipayan4264 I would submit that a human life outranks operating costs and tight schedules. The controller should have sent the jet around from the start, or set them up for an approach to a different runway.....not direct this poor woman all over Houston before sending her to her death.
@@KCFlyer2 Problem is you can't predict the outcome. If the outcome was known beforehand ATC would certainly give preference to the smaller aircraft. Also because of larger mass and momentum; it takes much longer distance for larger aircrafts to go around or try a different approach. And if they make any mistake, casualty would be much greater.
I honestly cannot believe how unprofessional the second controller was on the radio, literally chatting with the pilot about what instructions he was *thinking* of giving her, as she was going around... ATC should really be each pilot's least priority, I think we all waste a lot of our capacity in listening out and doing our best to please the controllers and follow their instructions, sacrificing the safety of the aircraft...
No piloting failed to fly the plane raising flaps at to low of an airspeed and not doung anointing about being to high over the runway resulting in all dying. Controllers are clearly not in at fault trying to help her through the mess she created.
Controllers are not the PIC and I think that's a huge problem on the way we train private pilots. We need to train them to exercise their PIC authority.
Ultimately, yes it comes down to the PIC, aviate navigate communicate, abut cmon, those clearances were rubbish, ambiguous in the heat of the moment and confusing. They clearly had a huge impact on the pilots decision making. After she over shot the second final turn, the controllers should have identified that the TWC was not working.
Although the last controllers call was long winded and too colloquial, at least he had the sense to start thinking about bringing her onto RWY4 albeit the timing of said call was a huge factor. Her flap retraction timings were clearly a result of her wanting to get out of the deteriorating situation. Prioritisation on both sides of the fence would have saved this poor woman and the passengers.
@@mwilliams2101- The cirrus made a lot of student pilot mistakes. Bad GRM, bad planning, bad skills, bad piloting errors all over. Last of six pilot errors did a fatal low stall produced by a huge student pilot style error . ATC gave lots of options and cirrus driver failed them all. Stop blaming the one outside the pilot seat.
You must be one the lazies that avoid practicing GRM when windy (those were the main mistakes,) then the Clumsy Cirrus DRIVER killed all flaps at low speed TWICE-Second time they spun to ground..Blame ATC for that too??.
LAzy Wimpy clumsy bad pilots are the problems of the USA GA LOC crashes all over, Not ATC.
GreatFlyer qa
Thank you for doing these. Learning from others mistakes is a way of using these sad tragedies for good.
I don't like the idea of using a Class Bravo for recreational use. There are other more reasonable GA airports nearby. You should have gone there.
This one gave me chills. I’m fatigued from listening to the Tower, and my anxiety level kicked up with every go-around.
I feel like this could've all been avoided if the controller sent the 737 around rather that the Cirrus on the 1st approach. She was already cleared to land as number 2 and made first contact before the 3rd 737. The FAA makes it very clear the ATC is not priority based but first come first serve. Just because the 737 is bigger and more important in the controllers eyes, he/she should've been instructed to go around
When I fly into Bravos I would much prefer the controllers send me for a lap than make a couple hundred people possibly miss connections.
Given that I was publicly berated by a center controller a few years ago for taking up their time with a GPS-negative aircraft, I'm utterly convinced that controllers don't give a rat's behind what 14 CFR says about GA traffic. A couple years ago, FAA director Huerta couldn't even remember the FAA regs regarding dropping objects from airplanes. This is the world we live in. GA pilots are second class citizens where the FAA is concerned.
bhc That may be your preference, but it's not in the regulations that ATC must abide by. ATC is first come, first serve. If I'm not in danger from any aircraft in front of me, it's my runway when cleared to land. If that causes a problem for someone else, they can go around. Orderly, consistent rules is what makes our air traffic system work safely for everyone involved, not some arbitrary priority system based on how many passengers a plane can hold.
skydvrboy The first come first serve thing has a loophole for "as circumstances permit." The loophole has become common practice. It will take action by the FAA to get controllers to stop abusing the loophole. Personally, as I already said, I would prefer that nothing change - I don't want to cause dozens of people to miss connections, pilots to get grounded due to crew rest limits, thousands of gallons of jet fuel wasted, etc. A go around should be a non-event for a capable student pilot. (unless you really have to piss)
Get real. You think they are going to make a 737 go around instead of the Cirrus? It costs a fortune to do a go- around. She wasn't flying the airplane and it got them killed. All you people blaming ATC have probably never flown a kite let alone an airplane.
I had a similar stressful landing a few years ago.
The stress was high and landing my 172B with an 18 mph crosswind was less than ideal as a student pilot.
My ATC was much more helpful and kept communication very simple.
After listening to many ATC videos recently, my first impression was how demanding the situation was and how compliant and cooperative the Cirrus pilot was, so it was saddening to hear that a contributing factor to this tragedy was the pilot's lack of assertiveness.
Stress and pressure have such a huge impact on outcome.
This tragedy makes me so angry.
I know its easy looking back in hindsight but I feel the controllers were trying to fly the aircraft for her. She needed clear simple instructions rather than all these long wordy transmissions from the controllers. I feel her pain.
Not only did they change their minds because they didn't things right, they also gave unclear and vague directions. I'm so sad about this.
What the hell! She was an absolute idiot who couldn't pilot for shit! Kept overshooting the runway and was unable to lose altitude over and OVER AND OVER the fuck again! Come on!
@@bikerboy3k There's 100 other Pilots commenting that don't agree with your rude and one sided assessment.
So Thanks for the worthless and insulting comment I'll file it under 'armchair expert bullshit'
Regardless of her skill you can hear in the ATC voice and actions that her being overwhelmed wasn't all her fault.
Did you even listen to the analysis?
Travis Schpeltinger my mom wasn’t any of those words. Your lack of empathy is sad. Think about their kids including myself and the rest of our family before you say this. I hope one day you understand how messed up you are for saying this.
She had no business in Bravo airspace. Also why do instructors teach flaps landings as primary. Speed is your friend.
There are many links in this accident chain of events. The first one that I noticed (and it was never mentioned) is that approach control didn't provide the proper sequencing to allow more spacing for the slower GA aircraft. Next is the controller's constantly changing and confusing instructions. Next is the pilot should have said "unable" when given a runway with a crosswind component of 15 knots and a tailwind too. She probably didn't do the math in the air that quickly, and assumed the controller knew. Most controllers are NOT pilots. In the end, the pilot retracted the flaps too early and created a stall situation without enough altitude to recover. Granted this was due to pressure and task overload. She didn't prioritize and "fly the airplane" first. Ultimately the pilot in command has the SOLE responsibility for the safety of the flight. I remember reading this in the regs many years ago.
Spot on, but I'd say the chain started even earlier than that - when the pilot chose KHOU as destination. Even not knowing how busy that airport is like the locals would know, a quick look at airnav shows an avg of 421 operations per day, 51% commercial traffic. That's an airliner landing every few minutes. There are several great alternates in the area, some close enough that you even see 'em on the map in this video - KEFD and KLVJ being the closest and either would've been a great choice - SIGNIFICANTLY lower traffic and the bulk of it transient or local GA, and either would've added no more than 10 minutes to the drive once on the ground. The pilot was putting themselves into a precarious landing situation before they even got off the ground.
Petition to make declaring an emergency due to “pilot fatigue because I’m tired of your bullshit” part of regulations.
I was thinking the same thing, with increasing fatigue and confusion - getting a priority over the perpetual chain of 737s could be helpful, treating the plane as if it was having an emergency had the potential to save these three people.
They already did! CFR Title 14 part 91.3 - declare an emergency and get down
I think you are right about that
@@electricpaper269 Gosh, I know right. It seems she reduced power when ATC said "keep it tight, keep it tight" plus the flaps😔
So ATC WAS FLYING THE AIRPLANE BAD, THEN STALLED IT TOO?? THAT IS A LIE..
Why not send the 737 around? The Cirrus was before them.
That's right.
If you watched the video you would know the 737 was coming in too fast and the controller failed to instruct them to turn round. A 737 doesn’t have priority, all planes are equal, it doesn’t matter when you’re flying into. It sounds like you need to brush up on your knowledge if you are indeed a student...
cheesecake1monster So it was correct to send the 737 around? Not to let them continue approach.
@@dovaiS ...not according to the NTSB, they faulted the pilot first (improper go-around) then both ATC's for confusing and non-protocol instructions, they did not fault ATC for re-sequencing the landings (ie. directing the 737's to a holding pattern to clear way for the Cirrus.)
Nobody wants to mess with the Heavy's, because of MONEY....and the power behind that Money, but as PIC you have LEGAL POWER and SAFETY on your side.
The 737 is heavier, more difficult to maneuver and carries more souls on board, so there is a bigger risk to divert a big plane than a small plane. The small plane is more agile and can adjust to the pattern of the bigger planes, which is known and is steady, as the approach controllers try to send them in at a given frequency. You would do the same if you were in the front-desk of a business dispatching orders: if there are big orders coming in at a steady pace you accommodate the smaller ones in between.
A lot of accidents in SR20s and SR22s go down like this. The aircraft has a significant tendency to experience uncommanded roll in turning stalls, which has killed many an inattentive pilot in the pattern. Yes, it's the pilot's error in the end, but Cirrus pilots do need to be very aware of this tendency and practice avoiding spins more intensely than in other, more stable aircraft.
These new aircraft like the Cirrus and Lancair platforms are death traps. High stall speeds, nasty characteristics, and absolutely gutless short field performance.
joshuawfinn They are only killing pilots that aren't paying attention to the aircraft. They don't just fall out of the sky. They have to be MADE to do that shit. Not paying attention to power settings, flight control positions, stall speeds in a given configuration, CG changes based on loading and balance, etc. If you are complacent, a good aircraft can kill you as quickly as any prototype test aircraft will. Assume the plane is trying to kill you, and mitigate the risk from there.
It is a notable comparison that a Cirrus is likely to roll without prompt and correct input during a banking stall, while other aircraft (particularly high-wings) require full and aggressive incorrect inputs to force the aircraft into a spin, and can recover simply be neutralizing control inputs. Stability is a factor pilots should consider when flying, and less of it does make it more likely, especially for low hour pilots like myself, that you'll get dangerously far behind the aircraft.
MillionFoul, well said. Given the multitudinous other choices offering similar capabilities with fewer nasty habits, I can't think of a single reason to own a Cirrus or any other of the aircraft like it.
Karl Childers, a Cessna, Bonanza, or Piper would have been recoverable in that situation, this aircraft is not. Also, the Cessna and Piper don't stall at such ridiculously high speeds, and the Bonanza gives gobs of indicators that it's not happy.
I learned to fly from day 1 at Hobby airport. I can tell you the controllers are experts at fitting fast jets and small airplanes into the same airport at the same time. On the 2nd go around she should have requested a divert to Ellington which is literally 5mins away from Hobby with none of the busy commercial jet traffic. It is very doable to squeeze into Hobby in between the stream of Southwest 737's, but you need to be on your A-game.
I don't even like driving in Houston, I drive in either on a weekend or at 5 am same as I drive Atlanta, I'd have taken a smaller airport too but my heart goes out to those on this plane.
FAA regulations include the following two statements :
1) The pilot in command of an aircraft is directly responsible for, and is the final authority as to, the operation of that aircraft.
2) Except in an emergency, no person may operate an aircraft contrary to an ATC instruction in an area in which air traffic control is exercised.
Those two statements are at all times in conflict with one another, but unless exactly one statement applies at any given moment, problems will arise. In most circumstances, this doesn't matter, but when things go wrong, at precisely the moment when clarity is needed, it is absent. It would be easy to say that the regulations are unfit for the most important part of their purpose, namely safety.
I once observed a row between a pilot who declared an emergency in order to reject an ATC instruction which he felt was unsafe and the controller who issued the instruction, who felt that the pilot's rejection was unsafe. Two people, normally extremely professional, but both angry at what happened and frightened by what might have happened, trying to kill one another is not a pretty sight.
I don't see how the pilot can be attempting to kill the controller. The PIC always has final say.
This video should be shown to every new pilot taking PPL training.
no need. Already covered day 1 when they point at the flap lever and say don't pull that early or you die.
Should be shown to every new ATC controller
LtRiot I disagree. I‘m sure the pilot here knew that fact by heart too. Learning such facts is easy, but realizing that you are overloaded and drawing the right consequences is extremely hard.
Gregory Ashton sauyahHyghHsshohhGGhghyhHHhHOggoi
I'm a student pilot and today was day 2 in the air. We did my first power off stall. One of the things my instructor told me was to establish speed and climb before retracting flaps a little, continuing to build speed and maintain climb before retracting flaps more. This video is an excellent way to reinforce the importance of that lesson for me today. These are great. RIP to the pilot.
I learned long ago early in my flight instruction, that if I ever got confused or stressed with air traffic control, to bail out and tell them I wanted to leave their air space and start over. Unless restricted by fuel or severe weather, it's easier and safer to get out, take a deep breath and reorient yourself. This pilot was too nice. She should have told them she was getting confused with the multiple and differing instructions she was getting and wanted to start over. The controllers were more worried about getting her on the ground and out of their way. She was more worried about not upsetting the controllers which is why she (needlessly) apologized for the confusion. The confusion that the controllers created!
Remember, pilots, you have lives to worry about. The controllers have schedules to worry about. If you mess up their schedule, they'll eventually get over it. You only have one life. Speak up and stay alive.
Such unprofessional controller, no ICAO standard terminology, being so casual and confusing the inexperienced pilot, such a shame
@NonyaBusiness! since noone has answered you on that until now. No! Absolutely not! Going into airspace like this is perfectly normal. This is a very bad example of how things went wrong.
@FoxIII Me personally I'd choose to fly into a Delta than a Bravo or even Charlie if one is available (I've flown into two satellite airports in Houston). Small fish in a big pond, or small fish in a small pond? I feel like I have no business going into Hobby if I had to go to Houston in just a C172. Plenty of less-busy Cessna-friendly airports nearby as well.
deexith g , how’s that armchair?? Comfy?
@NonyaBusiness! IMO, if I may advise...its not so much that you avoid busy airports, but that you you should take steps to anticipate what you may be flying into. Really study the runways and traffic patterns, terrain, etc. beforehand as much as possible so that you have a very clear mental picture priorly. The more you can study and anticipate, the more stress you can offload prior to entering the pattern.
@NonyaBusiness! Hahah, actually even here where I'm based (AUS) I was practicing an ILS approach back home and they wanted me to keep my speed up since there was large traffic behind. Faster approach speed, plus on a different plane than usual, my instructor had the handicap set high!
Moral being, small in a big pond with big fish can really cause you to do stuff outside your personal envelope.
I just took my first flying lesson 2 days ago and this scares the crap out of me! This woman sounded like she knew what she was doing and had good hours in the Cirrus. I'm sure there's a lot for me to learn, but I think I'm going to be a very conservative pilot and don't plan to land any where near airports with heavy airliner traffic. Lastly, I would have turned left to 30 degrees as well.
Have a talk about it with your instructor. It will almost certainly be very constructive and help you to alleviate any fears you have. Always remember that no-one will be angry at you for failing to talk when you're busy just flying your plane, aviate and navigate, and only then communicate.
Remember that the controller is another person just like you, and that you can negotiate with them to do what's easiest for you. If you're overwhelmed, ask them to let you do a long approach so you have more time, or to go around the pattern without landing. If you're embarrassed to ask, just say you have to run a checklist, even if that's not true.
As the Pilot in Command, you always have the final say on what your aircraft is doing, and if you're getting overwhelmed, you have both the right and responsibility to do whatever necessary to reduce your workload. Your instructor will overload you on purpose at times so you can learn to recognize what it feels like, and that is an important feeling. Provided you do your fuel planning correct (you can never have too much fuel provided your weight is good), then you will always have the ability to extend your approach and give yourself time to think. Do not be afraid to use fuel to do an easier approach, it reflects better on you as a pilot to be overly cautious than being brash.
"Sounds like" does not equal "is" unfortunately, and 300 hours is low time. Glass panels can be very distracting if not used properly and we really have no way to gauge how good her airmanship was. However, as I CFI-I, some things do stand out. First, her decent planning. Poor decent planning indicates an underlying control misunderstanding. Ending up high is generally caused by excessive airspeed from diving at the runway. The fastest way down is actually to slow down.
My advise is discuss your feelings with your instructor and seek aerobatic training. No, I'm serous. Learn what the airplane can actually do and how to do it and you will be a much better pilot. A scared pilot is much more dangerous. Stick and Rudder is well worth your money.
I wouldn't say avoid air traffic or busy airports. All pilots need to be exposed to this bit they need to be exposed with a strong and well informed instructor. Remember aviate first. Fly the plane. Comply later.
Don’t put your life in ATC’s hands. If you don’t feel right doing it, let them know.
This is a bad example of what ATC usually does. Once she was lined up on her first approach, the controller should have made the 737 behind her go around. Landing traffic behind you does NOT have priority, period! This controller was a complete POS for treating the GA pilot like a 2nd tier aviator. You're PIC of your airplane and if ATC is risking your life, tell them no and deal with them later.
When I watch these, I usually roll my eyes and think "what a reckless moron."
This is one of the few that really scare me. It wasn't her fault. The ATC killed her by screwing around and raising tension until she slipped up.
Yeah exactly thats why this one hurt so much because all the mistakes that were made in this video were tiny but cumulative. Sometimes a pilot dying to their own hubris doesn't hurt quite so much to read, but a pilot who is clearly trying to do their best failing is just heartbreaking
@@coolmanjack1995 Id have turned to 030 too
@@randynielsen1413 The controller said 30 degree heading. I think most of us would have turned to 030.
There was a big jet that crashed into a mountain in IMC a couple decades back for similar reasons.
"XXX Descend 5,000ft" (or whatever it was) and they were about FL200 at the time.
Controller meant down 5 to 15,000 - plane hit they mountain at 5. You can hear the cvr online from it - the gpws is howling a good minute or so beforehand, ignored until the end
@@r.daniels1165 If she was assertive with ATC, the outcome might have been different, but if you *have* to be assertive with ATC to prevent an accident, ATC is the one who screwed up.
I was disoriented watching it on my computer I can only imagine being in the Cirrus, too many go-arounds and putting the plane on a runway with a difficult crosswind was the cause of the accident, end of the case
My instructor gave me the greatest advice ever, no matter how many years I had flown. When landing at an unfamiliar, at night or a busy airport, contact the controller inform them that I'm a student pilot, works like a charm.
I am based at KIWS, 20+ miles NW of KHOU. I did a lot of Angel Flights picking up and flying patients to KHOU. Many times I had to "make doughnuts" around the pattern to find the little window of opportunity... but I stopped doing it since it would take me sometimes up to 35+ minutes to fly from KIWS to KHOU... pus the time later to get out of there. Landing at Bravo airspace is an incredibly good learning experience... but not to do regularly in small aircraft. After many experiences like this, I decided to pick and deliver at KIWS... a shorter and faster drive for my passengers... than flying there.
I vividly remember my first landing at KHOU...a strong headwind had my, then Cessna 172, doing close to ~45 knots and ATC asking me to speed up or I would have to do a 180 since I had a 737 behind... now I am smiling... not then!
Pilot got flustered during bad situations one after the other and forgot to fly the plane first. Raising the flaps at 62 knots was fatal in a turn. She kept climbing too high maybe not realizing MSL back home was 1000' and HOU was 50', she may have been climbing 1000' too high.
AD some people like me unaware of aviation would ask for Runway 22. However there is a minor problem if 04 is heavy with commercial traffic.
and she reduced power in a turn while retracting the flaps at a much to slow airspeed!
I think you may be onto something there about the altimeter setting - remember that her first two landing attempts had to be aborted because she had too much altitude.
This controller just seemed annoyed to have a small aircraft in his traffic.
I agree. Hobby should be for commercial traffic only unless the ATC's clear the oncoming planes to say the place is relatively quiet.
@@martintheiss743 Then they'd have to change the name from "Hobby" to "Professional" :p
@@LordSandwichII I was so tempted to create an "Earl of Hamburger" persona to applaud your post!!
@@LordSandwichII Next ine I will, your Lordship.
Actually the tower cared a lot. Unfortunately, this care
was bad. Too much babbling, too much irrelevant stuff.
Confusing the pilot. Who always responded short and precise.
Okay, not being able to get the plane down 2 times is a clear
pilot error.
I am overloaded just listening to these exchanges.
I PERSONALLY GOT THE IMPRESSION THAT THE CONTROLLER MADE HER FEEL NERVOUS AND THAT SHE WAS BEING A BIT OF A PAIN. HE SOUNDED IMPATIENT AT CERTAIN POINTS
I agree with you but please use an indoor voice
Both ATCs were professional and neutral in their tones and one even told her "it's okay, we'll get it next time."
BOOMER CAPS MODE ACTIVATED
@@AureliusR *adjusts baseball cap* YEP, REAL NICE DAY TODAY *shifts beer gut* GOING TO GO UP IN MY CESSNA WITH MY WIFE AND KIDS TO DROP THEM OFF AT THE GOLF CLUB. *coughs from get-there-itis* THOSE THUNDERSTORMS SHOULDN'T BE A PROBLEM, I CAN HANDLE FLYING AROUND THEM *winds up on an Air Safety Institute Video* THEN I'LL TOUCH DOWN AT KFLL WITH EXTREMELY LOW FUEL TO GO TO CRACKER BARGEL. SHOULD BE GOOD
I'm not sure what I would have done, but I know I would have been too confused and stressed to land at some point in that sequence. I know I would have planned to land at a GA field, not at a busy commercial airport if at all possible. I fault the controllers for this one. They should never do that to a pilot. Best way to calm a pilot would be to give them an altitude and heading to fly for a few minutes, then re-sequence them giving enough time to get re-oriented to the correct runway, wind speed and direction, etc.
Carl you are right, but a big factor here is that the controllers seemed oblivious to the stresses that they were laying on the pilot.
I'm going to agree that the selection of
a nearby GA airfield would have been a
better choice, rather than slicing and dicing with airliners.
I can understand how stressful the situation for the pilot just listening to what the ATC told her.
This shows her incompetence as a low time pilot. That’s all
This is what happens when you let the tower call the shots rather then telling them what you need.
427 my advice is to scream at the ATC after the first or second failure to reassign them to a local more appropriate airport. I say again I think something like HOU is not appropriate as a recreational airport unless the ATC says its a dead time or a light workload opportunity to set up for a landing.
Applying assertiveness can save your life. The challenging communication from the incoming controller, vectoring her to Runway 4 was confusing.
So declare an emergency??? Or ask for vectors to assess the situation? What is the right decision here?
@@araoldier2001 As a 360 hr pilot piloting a Cirrus SR22T (similar to her airplane) I stay away from busy class B. This would've stressed me the hell out. But in this situation (I think since I'm not currently under that stress and can think clearly) I hope I would've told them "unable" and then "vector me out of the airspace and lets regroup and line up again." Actually I probably would've just said, "get me out of here and I'll land at one of the class G or D airports not far away." But again I'm sitting here in my desk watching this able to pause and think. This poor lady. But in a light small aircraft, I avoid busy airspace that constantly has heavies flying everywhere. Just in the beginning it was stressing me out watching her cirrus get sandwich'd between two heavies as I was thinking about the wake turbulence!
@@tylerjorgensen24 Exactly. I understand that all airplanes are equal in the eyes of the FAA for landing, but to me it just scream a dick move to try to land your cirrus at a class b airport. I can see if there was no other close option, or it was an emergency... You're little golf cart with wings is trying to land between heavy's flying 2 or 3 times fast, and who are on a tight schedule. Yes, they can go around for you, but that again is a dick move to make them do that - as now all the passengers are at risk of missing connections, and that flight will take a long time to recover from that late landing... All to satisfy the bravado of the small plane pilot.
As a private pilot myself, I'd never do this - at least not without trying to find a dead-time in the schedule at that airport. airline schedules are easy to look up on line.
BINGO...we have a WINNER...ATC caused this...
Wow. This is immensely educational. I think this would be an extremely dangerous situation for very many pilots. I really hope I remember this when I get into such a difficult situation and realize the moment I get overloaded and draw the right conclusions.
Thank you for this video!
This is one of the best ASI recordings. As pilots, we really need to be prepared to tell ATC what we need. I encounter one or two situations a year where I need to speak up to them.
I wonder what kind of idiots are giving thumbs down to a thoroughly researched, well-produced and extremely valuable production like this.
Always makes me uneasy hearing "keep it tight".
I had a keep it tight order from a controller during my first round of solos in the pattern. After I landed the last time, and after the congratulations from my cfi, he chewed me a new a$$ for not declining and asking for an extended downwind (which after I thought about it was the right thing to do of course.)
Not a big deal, the controller was NOT talking about her pants but the pattern tight. Not a complicated instruction to a semi experienced pilot.
@@llo7816 I understand that, but it was my first solo pattern so that's why my CFI didn't want me doing anything off script. It wasn't complicated at all and I landed perfectly fine.
Young pilots. From old military and professional pilot. Tell atc what you want. They are there to help but can’t fly. They are not pilots
@Jon JustinTime ...I agree, maybe the "keep it tight" was the trigger that caused her to raise flaps too early and create the stall..... seems that way?
Exactly. Be assertive. Let them know you’re not comfortable and do as advised but not so much as to make yourself completely uncomfortable and overwhelmed.
Absolutely stellar production quality. Very thorough and clearly delivered analysis.
I think that the lesson from this accident is to realise it when you're getting in over your head and to say so to air traffic control without apology.
And the most important lesson of all: Aviate FIRST, navigate second, communicate third. She was pushing that first part down the list which ultimately led to the crash.
@@rykehuss3435 Low-time pilots are apprehensive to not follow ATC instructions; that comes with a lot of time or an experienced pilot explaining it to you. Sometimes you gotta say "unable"...
@@bobdavies2131 "unable" may get you bumped, which might have been the best solution here
Wow I wish air safety institute could review my days, id be the most productive perfect human ever! I love how the reviews cover EVERYTHING its so good. From tones, to pressure, they know it all
I've listened to this a few more times in the last few days and I gotta say, the controller on the horn following the first go-around was a mess. In the same set of calls he tells her to fly RW heading (40) and then in a few, to turn right to 35 -DW...then tells her she needs to keep the turn all the way through into 35-BASE but to be aware of the 7-3 on short final. Then literally after she reads back - and clearly she's trying to figure out WTF he really means - he comes back and says yeah...start your turn to 35-DW now...following it immediately with "I will call your 35-BASE now..."
Seriously dude - WTF...If you're gonna actually tell a pilot ambiguous\conflicting information - let alone in the same set of calls - you MUST tell them "cancel that"or "belay that"...something to help frame and clarify what the hell you're intending...
I'm not going back on my previous statements about her culpability here but that notwithstanding, this one particular ATC controller was a serious mess...he actually sounded like he was rattled himself in trying to handle a Cirrus in the same airspace as a 7-3
She was in way over her head, she stalled she was PIC and was responsible.
Appalling Controlling technique, and I say that as an experienced Tower and Approach Radar Controller of 24 years. Being proactive and slowing the second 737 down would have been one option. Another would have just been to orbit her in a clear bit of sky until they had a gap. I use this incident as an example to my trainees how NOT to control.
S Cramer - says the person who obviously isn’t a qualified Controller, and if he’s a pilot, an ego the size of a house.
ATC is there to assist, and to recognise when there is an issue - especially when they’ve contributed to it.
Oliver Jones 1) Shift change - it’s the responsibility of the transferring Controller to ensure that the following Controller has the full picture, and to ensure any questions are answered. You often see in movies the Controller plugging in, looking out the window and saying “I’ve got it”, unplugging the relieved Controller. Dangerous machismo, and the quickest way to have an incident. I wouldn’t have handed over the position until this was resolved.
Traffic responsibility - the fact that there’s already been one go around should ring alarm bells in the Controllers head. I’d be making sure they got in off the second Approach. The tower guys just kept on trying to resolve the situation without slowing down the inbounds - they should have been more proactive to get her in on the second attempt.
And as for the multiple runway changes - words fail me. There was no planning, it was just reactive Controlling.
@@darrenwheeler6469 if she declared an emergency what would be the correct answer here when asked "what is the nature of you emergency"?
Interesting question. I would say “Pilot disorientation and confusion”, or simply “Pilot fatigue”. But in order to declare an emergency, you have to realise there is one. With the pressure that was being piled on her it’s the last thing she would have realised.
Darren Wheeler may be “task saturation” would have worked. They stressed her out with useless chatter and numerous disorienting turns and runway reassignments. Poor woman. :(
This is such a shame. The pilot was said by everyone to be such a kind woman. The controller on the other hand seems to be vilified, with ATC able to “get a cup of coffee” when they make a mistake, while you die! Whoa! ATC personnel are human too, I guarantee this controller suffered greatly over this. Also when a pilot is kind, accommodating until the end, etc, everyone is afraid to call a spade a spade. The kind lady was a VERY INCOMPETENT PILOT. I don’t mean to be disrespectful of her as a person. It’s a nice day. No amount of communication confusion should cause a pilot to stall and crash the airplane! I just can’t comprehend such a thing. She does sound SO NICE. It hurts to be critical. The controller seems so nice too. I don’t find the controller to be confusing either. She crashed on a nice day due to stress over talking to the tower. She was incompetent in that aircraft and needed more instruction.
Yup. I know plenty of nice people who are terrible drivers. It seems many people here need a villain. I've read many comments talking about Air Traffic Control directing her around in circles, yet failing to mention that it was necessary due to her incompetency. She was clearly stressed and well outside her ability level. If you need to be babied down to the ground, you don't belong in the air in the first place. She seemed like an exceedingly nice lady. Unfortunately now she's a dead nice lady.
So sad! U can hear the confusion and fear in her voice! Her confidence was definitely lost with every turnaround! Rip
Lol
Man, this is such a sad incident. Great work by the ASI (as always) -- makes me proud to be an AOPA member.
I don't want to Monday morning quarterback, but it irks me that the controller sent the Cirrus around first instead of the 737 behind it. Airline traffic doesn't (read: shouldn't) get priority over GA.
Ian, ATC almost always does that. The day you do a go around, and right abeam the tower, you look *UP* into the cockpit of an F-18, well, that's your wakeup call that you, as a GA pilot, are second class.
The SWA was there 1st, the controller was trying to work her in between planes, she was a dumbass trying to go to that airport with an ez airport right near Hobby.
Maybe these small airplanes shouldn't be mixed in with large commercial planes. Was there no small, less-busy airport for her to use?
@@abc-wv4in There was the airport just south of Hobby and yes she could have.
This is the classic ego of every “big” airport controller
This sounds like a clusterf*ck
That's Houston.
As someone who hopes to get a private pilot license one day, this is quite scary. But well worth every minute.
Watching these makes me grateful for all the great pilots and safe flights I have had.
I'd like to think I would have just broken off the approach and headed for my alternate the moment that confusion about the heading set in. It was pretty clear by that point that the controller was not being helpful.
She never indicated that she was uncomfortable. It's not their fault that she isn't assertive. As a pilot, she has an obligation to remain cool under pressure and she failed. Ridiculously failed. Nothing was mechanically wrong with her plane. She could have easily requested to leave the traffic circle or stated that she was becoming disoriented but didn't.
at the same time, airport is so close, you see the runway(s), you just want to put it down. But yeah, such a tragedy, she was too nice
Jesus, I get chills and some bad vibes watching these videos when something so avoidable like that happens
I'm not in aviation, but a workplace health and safety trainer. Replace the roles of pilot and air control with employee and boss, and you a window into the dynamic of many workplaces. This video therefore makes great study material, for anyone interested in the conditions that lead to serious accidents, at all levels.
I saw about 10 smaller airports nearby. Why she chose Hobby is unclear to me. Personally, I stay away from high traffic airports, particularly if there is a lot of jet traffic. Not worth the stress or the unseen wake turbulence.
Because it was closest to the hospital where her husband's grandfather was getting treatment, so I guess she thought she was entitled to land there.
@@ninedaysjane2466 She was certainly entitled to land there, the FAA in the US has said so... However, that doesn't mean you should. In Europe you are not even allowed to land general aviation aircraft at such airports. If you ask me, it was a dick move on her part to expect all the 737 heavys coming in at 150 knots to 'move over' for her 70 knot golfcart with wings. These airports are not used to dealing with small GA airplanes.
Ninedaysjane Hobby is not the closet airport to MD Anderson. There are several GA airports that are the same distance from the Hospital where you don’t have to contend with 737s.
Maybe they had better transport options there? Were familiar with it?
Had a car parked there?
Lot's of possibilities.
So sad that this happened. Controller should have kept things much more simple ... making a gap for her to land rather than trying to squeeze her in between the close 737 landings. She definitely should have kept to the correct flap speeds as well. I agree with others that, once she was given number one for landing, the controller should have sent that 737 around.
Before I ever took my first flight lesson, I used to sit in my car and watch airliners land at Buffalo NY's airport. I monitored ATC communications on a hand held radio. On early evening, 3 airliners were approaching the airport and the controller announced an impending runway change. The tower controllers then seemed to lose control over directing these 3 airplanes for the change in runway. I listened as the 3 pilots in those 3 aircraft worked everything out amongst themselves with just a couple of radio calls. They were quick and decisive. Not your standard way of doing things but it shows that the Pilot is ultimately responsible for the safe outcome of flight.
She had such a soothing voice. So sad💔
I'm glad to see ATC took some of the heat but in my estimation ATC s poor performance could have rattled a senior commercial Capt. on any livery . Easy to put most of the blame on the dead pilot of the private aircraft.
Ahhhhh....A "senior" Captain would have told them to "send over-taking aircraft around" and continued to land..and not worried about their problem.
@@bobdavies2131 her landing clearance was cancelled by the go around instruction. she or "the sr captain" could not have landed without breaking the rules and had no reason to declare an emergency at that time. don't think you can override ATC like this no matter who you are..
@@asho1735 Pilot's authority ultimately trumps the ATC's. If a pilot feels it's necessary then they can disregard whatever an ATC is telling them. Cases like this accident are why
@@burstingwizard975 Only in case of emergency. There was no emergency here, nor an impossible instruction. A go-around is a very simple maneuver in a single prop.
I am a 747 captain, I have about 100 hours in a SR22 teaching someone to fly it.
It's not an easy plane for new pilots to fly on multiple go-arounds/touch and goes or quick up and down turns.
Agree, the cirrus is a slick little piston and requires a lot of discipline with regard to pattern ops. I had about 400 hours TT, a PPL with IR endorsement, all in high wing Cessnas, and when we were looking to purchase a plane for business we considered the Columbia 400 and the Cirrus SR20. Sexy planes, but with my relatively low time in mind we went with an old C182. It’s just a much more forgiving airplane in the pattern. You can see from the report that the pilot retracted flaps on the go arounds at a slower and slower airspeed on each go around. Pilot was probably exhausted on the third try and apparently lost focus on airspeed. Fatigue can build quickly during single pilot ops in Bravo airspace.
I would agree that the controller was not helping the situation. But the pilot seemed willing and was doing the instructions that were being given to her. A decision to be re sequenced should have been obvious after the 2nd go around by both the pilot and the controller. Very sad situation that could have been prevented.
Seems the smart thing to do would have been to get her away from the airport and start all over from further out, and then don't change it again. The 737's kept getting on top of her, and the ATC instructions were confusing.
@@LegendLengthNailed it, way to much talking and then repeating sometimes as well.