Hello Vincent. I had no choice. Nearly a quarter of our team have some visual challenge of one kind or another. The funny thing is at least the colour aspect had a solution. Getting the guys to buy varifocal specs is impossible. Glasses go on then off, get lost, left in the car - you name it. It hilarious.
I'm building a control panel and have watched 20-plus videos on control panels. My opinion is we have 19 others and one that really works and looks nice. Phenomenal. Thank You for sharing. OMG. I wrote this and then you pulled the back off. That's a lot of wires.
That was designed by Laurence Barker. The original designer behind the DTM30 boards. They also flash when they haven't been initialised by the system startup process. More on that in the up-coming videos.
Hi Dave. A lovely control panel you have there. And a nice wooden frame to boot. Wouldn't surprise me if it ended up hanging in the Dame Barbara Hepworth modern art museum in Cornwall. 👍
The level of detail and the scale of McKinley is overwhelming, it's a monster! ( a nice monster) but what will happen to it once we have all gone to that great shunting yard in the sky?
Thank you for the color research overview. Very interesting. Your solutions to achieve your goals are inspiring. Also, please give my compliments to Charlie Bishop for his outstanding videography.
Superb! Thanks for sharing 👍 One tip for future boards ... on the reverse side, perhaps an idea to have a reversed track plan printed to help the wiring navigation? I’ve done this on my control panels (using a reversed plan printed onto plain paper then glued) and it helps during wiring and fault finding.
Great looking panel so well done to all on the graphics and usability. My only view would be the internals, wow that looks it was a challenge to create and ongoing maintenance. Have you considered using what are now commonly known as Neopixel LEDs? (i.e. programmable), with this, you would need 3 cables between all the LEDs which would look much neater (and you control the colours via code, not by installing a predefined LED colour). These can easily be controlled via something like a Raspberry Pi Pico for a few quid, really simple to do.
The front facia looks superb, simple and effective graphics that is enhancing intuitive route switching and indication and dead right it has to work for you all, well done. On the wiring for your next build can I suggest you look at using a ribbon cable to terminal block convertor (terminal manufactureers like Klippon/ Weidmuller and some of the PLC manufacturers used to do them) to bridge your hinge with the module mounted under the panel; thus the now short ribbon cable is changed in a minute, (I think you are going to have some real accessibility replacement issues with the wiring on this one). Wiring individual cores from switches/ leds back to the terminal block of the convertor unit you can then neatly loom these wires and keep them clear of the switches and LEDs, thus making parts accessible for repair, it will also allow much easier construction as well as looking very professional. As said prior those switches are very heat intolerant when soldering, it will also de risk splitting cores off like that when building, hats of to your builders patience! Best regards Stephen
@@dattouk Good to hear you have taken on board. Each time you open close that lid you are stressing all the connections so fatiguing perhaps hundreds of joints all at once, so on that panel look at stress relieving the ribbon cables on the joint to minimise flex damage. For future when you loom you inherently neaten and stress relieve individual connections! It also forces you to consider cable routing, ensuring easy access to any joints and supporting too. I suggest you do all your common connections with multiple linking first, this will act as a foundation for the discrete point to point connections which you do next. As you have done elsewhere - the key for so many wires is to plan carefully the wiring and if necessary any loom supports. Hope this helps Stephen
Craigbailey364@gmail.com 07969514079. We did decuss a visit but only 4 of use in Sutton Road group but have 5 members from victory model railway club that would like to come as well
You've obviously put a great deal of time and effort into your panels and I've learnt a lot that I'll be able to use in my own forthcoming build, so thanks for making your findings available. You didn't mention anything relating to the colour choice of the panel background, as my own findings in my work with designing user interfaces in computer software shows that writing and line work can show up better on a darker background, and LED'S show up better too. I wonder if you considered this ?
Ah.. We did, but after the event. The chaps at Hey Create told me about the different colour laminate boards available about three weeks ago. When we showed the different background colours, everyone wanted to stick with white - which surprised me.
Love the panels! Have you considered making custom PCBs to go under them, instead of manually wiring things? They're pretty cheap to get produced these days. (If you're interested I could help put one together, it sounds like a fun project)
I was looking at the logic suggested by Clinchfield above and I was not sure about the visual impact for our operators of having a PCB . You are the second person to suggest using a PCB. We are constrained to use the DTM30 Tower master for the system. Are you proposing we use a custom PCB under the facia and connect that to the DTM30 boards? Each DTM30 board has 6 number 26-way ribbon cable connections. For the Sheffield panel we used three of them. That makes 18 x 26 inter-connections.
@@dattouk yeah, custom PCB with the exact same circuit as your current wires. The LEDs and switches are soldered on to the PCB. Also on the other side of the PCB would be a ribbon cable connector, so you could use an off the shelf cable to plug into the DTM30s.
David, The new panel look's very smart indeed. Will the new panel's for Machester and London be the same size as the old ones? I can see Richard Branson knocking on your door right now to get panel's for his " Space Project's." Cheers, Chris Perry.
Hello Chris, The new panels are all deeper, but not necessarily wider. We found that the operators needed more vertical separation between the lines to be able to distinguish tracks. We have standardised on a 17mm gap. This allows us to add text and other crucial information especially to aid freight operation. I hope Mr Branson doesn't come knocking. Its hard enough to complete the ones we need. :-) David
I see you have a mixture of 1 and two point switches on cross-overs, those with double/single slips in particular have two. The crossover between the coal stage and refuge also has two switches, the West Headshunt has two cross-overs, one with 1 switch and one with 2 switches. Is there some specific reason for this or was it considered not possible to use one switch only? Personally I am convinced that it is possible to use one switch and I have done it on several different layouts. Mark in Melbourne (Australia)
We made the wooden frame. The design was created by a local graphics artist, Sam Clemance and the panel facia was etched by Hey Create. We painted it and wired it up. The control system we use is the DTM30 boards by SignaTrak.
I choose to watch TH-cam via the desktop site, rather than the App. It's a matter of personal choice, and to some degree, a principal. I therefore accept that some features, available with the app, will not be available to me. That's fine and I have no issue with that. However, I do take issue with TH-cam's latest attempt to force viewers to use the app, where they reduce the quality of playback, several times during each video, despite the fact that I have chosen the 720p quality, via the settings. Apart from it being irritating to have to keep reselecting my chosen quality, it also is incredibly disrespectful to the content creators who invest, a not insignificant amount of money, in good quality tech to produce better quality videos for their viewers. McKinley Railway have clearly invested a lot of money to produce a more professional experience for their viewers, only for TH-cam to decide that doesn't matter, and reduce playback to 360p for those 'rebellious' so and so's who refuse to be badgered into using the app, all the time. I might just be rebellious enough to cancel my TH-cam Music subscription too!
Hello Lee, We did check the width of the lines with the operators at the design stage. However, we start the real testing in a couple of weeks when lockdown finishes. I'll double check. The good things about this design is we can modify the widths and put a new facia on within a few days.
I saw your earlier suggestion in comments on the video 41 and haven't had a chance to reply. I have asked among the team but there is here is a degree of hesitation here. Most don't like speaking to the camera anyway. Some like anonymity. Its a delicate process of wishing to share our journey and allowing the team to get on with their passion. I am not sure I can help with your request. Sorry.
For your next Control Panel, you could consider reducing the rats nest of wires, at least for the LEDs, by using individually addressable LEDs. An example of how the LED strips can be cut into individuals and then connected in series is this, th-cam.com/video/D_QBlFIQk-o/w-d-xo.html The harder part might be reading the output of the "cards" by the LED controller. But creating a table of which LED in the chain corresponds to which driver output won't be too hard. There is a really active Ardunio developer community that might help you out. As the LEDs are full RGB, you might be able to do some cool indication effects as a bonus.
Hi Alex, your ideas are quite inspiring. However, we are locked into using the DTM30 boards with the associated limitations on components and wiring. I wish we could do smarter things, but the thought of learning a new hardware platform on top of what we are currently doing fills me with dread at the moment. Thanks for the tip though.
@@dattouk Yeah, it's replacing a rats nest of cables with a rats nest of computing devices, and finding people to make bespoke hardware and software. Wish I was in a position to help out. You and your team have a fantastic railway. Like you, as a boy, I looked at the Hornby Catalogue and dreamed of creating a railway from it.
This is fascinating! Thank you so much for this, I thoroughly enjoy this kind of in depth, technical stuff.
As someone who suffers from colourblindness, I greatly appreciate the fact you you spent the time making sure everyone can use the boards the same way
Hello Vincent. I had no choice. Nearly a quarter of our team have some visual challenge of one kind or another. The funny thing is at least the colour aspect had a solution. Getting the guys to buy varifocal specs is impossible. Glasses go on then off, get lost, left in the car - you name it. It hilarious.
I'm building a control panel and have watched 20-plus videos on control panels. My opinion is we have 19 others and one that really works and looks nice. Phenomenal. Thank You for sharing. OMG. I wrote this and then you pulled the back off. That's a lot of wires.
Breathtaking!!! Words fail me as to how good the completed panel looks and works,.
Thanks for sharing.
Not only practical for those who will be using it but very well thought out, and looks like a piece of art in its own right
One of the comments was offering a place for this "modern art" in Cornwall.
It is an amazing product, but not half as amazing, as you all are thorough!!
Thank you.
I love the flashing lights to indicate that the route is in the process of being set.
That is common on real relay- or computer-based interlockings (at least where I live). It's really helpful.
That was designed by Laurence Barker. The original designer behind the DTM30 boards. They also flash when they haven't been initialised by the system startup process. More on that in the up-coming videos.
You are ALL a bunch of neat, dedicated artists! What a awesome channel full of talented people!
It is a great journey. I'll pass on your compliments.
Hi Dave.
A lovely control panel you have there. And a nice wooden frame to boot. Wouldn't surprise me if it ended up hanging in the Dame Barbara Hepworth modern art museum in Cornwall. 👍
Nice video I love the use of the different colours indicating what track goes where that is a great idea.
Afternoon Dave. What a fantastic panel 👍🏻 It’s a work of art 😄 Keep the good up cheers Stevie.
We love it too Stevie. Everyone who gets to stand in front of it just can't resist pressing the buttons and making noises like the Minions.
The level of detail and the scale of McKinley is overwhelming, it's a monster! ( a nice monster) but what will happen to it once we have all gone to that great shunting yard in the sky?
It will get scrapped and forgotten..
@@dattouk that, friend, is so damn sad!
Looks very professional. Thanks for uploading.
Thank you for the color research overview. Very interesting. Your solutions to achieve your goals are inspiring. Also, please give my compliments to Charlie Bishop for his outstanding videography.
Thank you! Will do!
Very well done!
Thanks for another interesting vid
チャンネル登録しました♪
とても良い時間を過ごすことが出来ました😄
参考になります♪
Japaneaseで話せたらいいのに
Really looking forward to the day of seeing trains run on the layout.
You, me and about another two hundred people agree on that.
Superb! Thanks for sharing 👍 One tip for future boards ... on the reverse side, perhaps an idea to have a reversed track plan printed to help the wiring navigation? I’ve done this on my control panels (using a reversed plan printed onto plain paper then glued) and it helps during wiring and fault finding.
That is a great idea. Thank you. I will talk to the designer to see if he could reverse etch it with the laser
Great looking panel so well done to all on the graphics and usability. My only view would be the internals, wow that looks it was a challenge to create and ongoing maintenance. Have you considered using what are now commonly known as Neopixel LEDs? (i.e. programmable), with this, you would need 3 cables between all the LEDs which would look much neater (and you control the colours via code, not by installing a predefined LED colour). These can easily be controlled via something like a Raspberry Pi Pico for a few quid, really simple to do.
The front facia looks superb, simple and effective graphics that is enhancing intuitive route switching and indication and dead right it has to work for you all, well done. On the wiring for your next build can I suggest you look at using a ribbon cable to terminal block convertor (terminal manufactureers like Klippon/ Weidmuller and some of the PLC manufacturers used to do them) to bridge your hinge with the module mounted under the panel; thus the now short ribbon cable is changed in a minute, (I think you are going to have some real accessibility replacement issues with the wiring on this one). Wiring individual cores from switches/ leds back to the terminal block of the convertor unit you can then neatly loom these wires and keep them clear of the switches and LEDs, thus making parts accessible for repair, it will also allow much easier construction as well as looking very professional. As said prior those switches are very heat intolerant when soldering, it will also de risk splitting cores off like that when building, hats of to your builders patience! Best regards Stephen
You have given me something to think about. I'll research it a bit more. Thank you.
I have to admit that the wiring looks like a dogs dinner. We have to find a neater solution for that.
@@dattouk Good to hear you have taken on board. Each time you open close that lid you are stressing all the connections so fatiguing perhaps hundreds of joints all at once, so on that panel look at stress relieving the ribbon cables on the joint to minimise flex damage.
For future when you loom you inherently neaten and stress relieve individual connections! It also forces you to consider cable routing, ensuring easy access to any joints and supporting too. I suggest you do all your common connections with multiple linking first, this will act as a foundation for the discrete point to point connections which you do next. As you have done elsewhere - the key for so many wires is to plan carefully the wiring and if necessary any loom supports. Hope this helps Stephen
wonderful
Can’t wait to visit with Sutton road members
Who was you contact team member with Sutton Road.
@@dattouk myself Craig bailey spoke at last Barton pervil college model railway show.
I also belong to victory model railway club in Portsmouth
Craigbailey364@gmail.com
07969514079.
We did decuss a visit but only 4 of use in Sutton Road group but have 5 members from victory model railway club that would like to come as well
You've obviously put a great deal of time and effort into your panels and I've learnt a lot that I'll be able to use in my own forthcoming build, so thanks for making your findings available. You didn't mention anything relating to the colour choice of the panel background, as my own findings in my work with designing user interfaces in computer software shows that writing and line work can show up better on a darker background, and LED'S show up better too. I wonder if you considered this ?
Ah.. We did, but after the event. The chaps at Hey Create told me about the different colour laminate boards available about three weeks ago. When we showed the different background colours, everyone wanted to stick with white - which surprised me.
Love the panels!
Have you considered making custom PCBs to go under them, instead of manually wiring things? They're pretty cheap to get produced these days. (If you're interested I could help put one together, it sounds like a fun project)
I was looking at the logic suggested by Clinchfield above and I was not sure about the visual impact for our operators of having a PCB . You are the second person to suggest using a PCB. We are constrained to use the DTM30 Tower master for the system. Are you proposing we use a custom PCB under the facia and connect that to the DTM30 boards? Each DTM30 board has 6 number 26-way ribbon cable connections. For the Sheffield panel we used three of them. That makes 18 x 26 inter-connections.
@@dattouk yeah, custom PCB with the exact same circuit as your current wires. The LEDs and switches are soldered on to the PCB. Also on the other side of the PCB would be a ribbon cable connector, so you could use an off the shelf cable to plug into the DTM30s.
hope those loconet boards have a long life
Me too..
Looks great, what are the boards did you use?
He's using DTM30 boards, now sold by Signatrak.
David, The new panel look's very smart indeed. Will the new panel's for Machester and London be the same size as the old ones? I can see Richard Branson knocking on your door right now to get panel's for his " Space Project's." Cheers, Chris Perry.
Hello Chris, The new panels are all deeper, but not necessarily wider. We found that the operators needed more vertical separation between the lines to be able to distinguish tracks. We have standardised on a 17mm gap. This allows us to add text and other crucial information especially to aid freight operation. I hope Mr Branson doesn't come knocking. Its hard enough to complete the ones we need. :-)
David
brilliant!
I see you have a mixture of 1 and two point switches on cross-overs, those with double/single slips in particular have two. The crossover between the coal stage and refuge also has two switches, the West Headshunt has two cross-overs, one with 1 switch and one with 2 switches.
Is there some specific reason for this or was it considered not possible to use one switch only? Personally I am convinced that it is possible to use one switch and I have done it on several different layouts.
Mark in Melbourne (Australia)
Can't disagree Shaun.
So redo of Sheffield or just subsequent panels?
Mark
All this is way beyond obsessional !
Agreed. We enjoy it that way.
☹️ Me and my oval track with one turnout.
Great panel, can I ask where you had it made
We made the wooden frame. The design was created by a local graphics artist, Sam Clemance and the panel facia was etched by Hey Create. We painted it and wired it up. The control system we use is the DTM30 boards by SignaTrak.
What the hell is that monstrosity with the track at 05:39?!
I choose to watch TH-cam via the desktop site, rather than the App. It's a matter of personal choice, and to some degree, a principal. I therefore accept that some features, available with the app, will not be available to me. That's fine and I have no issue with that. However, I do take issue with TH-cam's latest attempt to force viewers to use the app, where they reduce the quality of playback, several times during each video, despite the fact that I have chosen the 720p quality, via the settings. Apart from it being irritating to have to keep reselecting my chosen quality, it also is incredibly disrespectful to the content creators who invest, a not insignificant amount of money, in good quality tech to produce better quality videos for their viewers.
McKinley Railway have clearly invested a lot of money to produce a more professional experience for their viewers, only for TH-cam to decide that doesn't matter, and reduce playback to 360p for those 'rebellious' so and so's who refuse to be badgered into using the app, all the time. I might just be rebellious enough to cancel my TH-cam Music subscription too!
Sorry, but I believe the lines are too narrow. Try doubling them in width and see the difference it makes.
Lee.
Pop down to Specsavers. I think you'll find they will be able to help you. Let us all know how you get on. 👍
Hello Lee, We did check the width of the lines with the operators at the design stage. However, we start the real testing in a couple of weeks when lockdown finishes. I'll double check. The good things about this design is we can modify the widths and put a new facia on within a few days.
Well done team love to interview a few of the team on my video podcast. Let me know if you wish to proceed with this?
I saw your earlier suggestion in comments on the video 41 and haven't had a chance to reply. I have asked among the team but there is here is a degree of hesitation here. Most don't like speaking to the camera anyway. Some like anonymity. Its a delicate process of wishing to share our journey and allowing the team to get on with their passion. I am not sure I can help with your request. Sorry.
For your next Control Panel, you could consider reducing the rats nest of wires, at least for the LEDs, by using individually addressable LEDs. An example of how the LED strips can be cut into individuals and then connected in series is this, th-cam.com/video/D_QBlFIQk-o/w-d-xo.html The harder part might be reading the output of the "cards" by the LED controller. But creating a table of which LED in the chain corresponds to which driver output won't be too hard. There is a really active Ardunio developer community that might help you out.
As the LEDs are full RGB, you might be able to do some cool indication effects as a bonus.
Ha Ha, I just got to the bit in the video where you said you will be using "rainbow strips"
Hi Alex, your ideas are quite inspiring. However, we are locked into using the DTM30 boards with the associated limitations on components and wiring. I wish we could do smarter things, but the thought of learning a new hardware platform on top of what we are currently doing fills me with dread at the moment. Thanks for the tip though.
@@dattouk Yeah, it's replacing a rats nest of cables with a rats nest of computing devices, and finding people to make bespoke hardware and software. Wish I was in a position to help out.
You and your team have a fantastic railway. Like you, as a boy, I looked at the Hornby Catalogue and dreamed of creating a railway from it.
MegaPoints Controllers. Simple and easy set up. No, Im not Dave Fenton either.
Agreed. I gave him praise in the first panel video Number 42.
-colourize- colour. We already have a language that works, and certainly don't need to import 'garbage speak' that doesn't.