Great video. Love these 'detective' videos. Hope you can make the parts work, get the old 454 rebuilt and move forward with the C10 shop truck. Be safe and stay well.
Usually, when your rod bearings go bad from the front of the motor back, starvation of oil. Pull your oil pump apart. Where is the sump located in the pan?
Larry suggested that I go back with Howard’s. Haven’t been disappointed yet. I feel like my comp cam is what took out my 327. It wasn’t completely gone and wasn’t knocking. But the bearing and crank were trash.
Idk if I can risk another flat tappet gamble I’ve personally never lost one that i installed and broke in but my luck is probably at the end of the road. Lol.
@@LeftForDeadGarage flat tappet is such a sh-t show now. I did the math on my 460 ford and its an extra $500 to go retrofit roller on it. I guess thats the price to only do it once.
@yurimodin7333 I agree, that’s a lot to risk to save some money in the beginning. Then to fix the wiped out cam would cost more money and time than it would have taken to just go roller. It’s a sad time for us hotrod guys
U are correct about the big end of the rods needing to be truly round. It is very important for that bore to be true & round & to the proper size. And it is somtimes overlooked in home builds. The tolerances for the size & roundness for the big end of the rods are very tight! Not somthing anybody can ever see witb the naked eye. On my fords the tolerances on the rod bores are .0008. Less than .001 of tolerance. Alot of bore guages measure down to half a thou. That is not precise enuf to measure that. You need a guage that measures down to .0001! Becose half a thou is .005. If it is accurate to that + or - that is a total of .001, they only have a tolerance of .0008 to be in or out. U need a guage that measures to .0001 accuracy. This needs to be checked with the rod caps torqued to spec. Now if you are in tolerance now lets talk about the bearing shells. With bearings installed & cap torqued to spec now you measure the bore for size but not roundness. The bearing shells are nade to not be round. They should be about .005 bigger going across were they meet. This is so the rod can distort under loads & still have clearance when its running. So when measuring bearings, only measure top to bottom. Not across. Now whatever your journals measure compared to your bearings measured you want your oil clearance to be around .002 of clearance. If you look up this clearance in a book it muggt tell you it supposed to be .0008 to .0015, this is wrong.. That clearance is to tught! U might think u want it tight? U do not!! Good rule of thumb is .001 per one inch of journal size. So if your journals measuere 2 inches then u want .002 of oil clearance. You want this larger clearance to compensate for any out of roundness or imperfections your journal might have & the larger clearance also provides more room for more oil flow wich helps lubricate the bearing & also helps cool the bearing. More oil flow= cooler bearing! If u need proof look up oil clearance for a everyday normal 454 & then look up oil clearance for a 1970 high performance 450 hp 454. It will be different! If your oil clearances are to loose, u will know becouse u might have lower oil pressure. If they are to tight evefybody will know becouse your engine will blow up in front of everybody!! Keep em loose!
I don’t have a tenths bore gauge but there may be one in the cabinet at work, not that I really need it for the crude way I was checking them. Going to make myself a rod vise next week, I’ve got all my materials rounded up. I’ve always went by the .001 per inch on clearances,it’s worked fine for me so far. I’ve still not nailed down on what happened to cause it to wreck the bearings. I pulled the crank, should have done it on the video. Bearings were beat up but not like the rods. Now Iam concerned since I don’t know for sure what caused it to do this. I also don’t know the full history of this motor either so maybe it was hurt before I got it. Thanks for watching and sharing all that info.
I have a suggestion, build the engine with no intake, build oil pressure, mark the lifters, turn the engine, if the lifters dont turn they are not going to when the engine starts and will go flat.
When looking at your rod bearings the rod half of the bearing will always be worse than the cap half of the bearing. & when looking at main bearings the cap half of the bearing will always be worse than the block half of the bearing. Thats were all the pressure is when the engine runs.
For the little I did get to drive it it ran way better than I figured it would. Rotate the earth ? Nope, but it was healthy. It’s a real shame it went the way it did, but I was taking a gamble on an unknown motor and here we are. 🤷🏻♂️
I have reused used flat tappet cams successfully before. Sevral times actually. And i dont mean i disabled a engine & then put the same engine back together with all its original parts. I mean i have taken camshafts out of one engine & then installed it in a completely different engine. And i have boughten completly new set of lifters & used them on a used flat tappet camshaft successfully. Even though it was a used camshaft i did the break in process over again with the new lifters. But i have never had a camshaft failure even with doing things like that. The engines i did that with were not big block chevys. Idk if some engines are more prone to cam failures than others? But mine have all been successful.
I’ve never swapped them from one to another. When we did the motor in the red el camino we reused the cam and lifters in it just to avoid the flat tappet gamble. Iam not sure in this 454 had ever been ran before I got it so it could have been hurt before.
@LeftForDeadGarage after watching the full video & hearing it sounds like it had been together for awhile, my take on it is it was just wore out. From age & use, but not really any failure or improper maintenance. The specs for that cam are much bigger & much more aggressive compared to stock. Some folks might say it isn't a big cam, but compared to stock it is much bigger. And it requires much stronger valve springs. It has more aggressive ramps wich are harder for a lifter to climb & add in alot more pressure on the lifter from the much stronger springs simply makes for possibly a good running camshaft, but life expectancy is shorter when u factor in the details. Using proper oil & being broke in properly all become much more important the more aggressive the cam is. And it sounds like all that was dun correctly. But it just has run its cycle. The wear on the bearings suggest the same also to me. I noticed they became alittle better shape the closer you got to the oil pump. Normal wear & tare. I dont think it looked like any damage was from one thing to another? I'm not a professional engine builder so maybey im missing somthing but as a hobby with my own engines I love building them! And I've dun a few things that are supposed to be automatic no no's & discovered the myths are somtimes bigger than the actual problems. Good video man. I've never seen ur channel before.
@jesseduke694 this motor only had about 15 miles on it. It may have been started and broke in before I got it but that’s all if that. I have a “first start” video I’ll post the link. I got this motor from a friend and it was gone though for him.
I've also had plenty of luck with flat tappet's. The proper break in is necessary. I run delo and break in zinc for the break in and delo and Lucas 10% ish. Keep it full and changed should be good
That motor was together WAY too long to be a "fitment" issue. I am thinking an oiling issue. Slow/inadequate oil to the rods. Need to pull the oil pump apart and check all the oil passages for trash.
@LeftForDeadGarage I am having trouble wrapping my brain around wearing all the way down in the copper in about 2 hours run time and it didn't seize up or spin bearings??? Especially at 70psi oil pressure?Something fishy here!
The only reason I really caught the death rattle is when I swapped from 40 series flowmasters to the flow FX mufflers. It’s a few videos back in this 73 C10 playlist. There is also a single “first start” video on this motor from a little while back. I fired it on the engine stand with radiator and all hooked up.
Had up to 70-80 psi the entire time, it only had maybe 15 miles of street driving. I had efi on it at the time so it was 15 miles of trying to let that stuff learn. I didn’t even get a chance to beat on it, I guess it’s a good thing I didn’t or I may of had a lot more junk parts.
The motor had been together for a good while, I was hoping for the best. However I do not know if it was ever ran before I got ahold of it. So even though I did the break in it may have already been on its way out.
People pay attention on old cast iron blocks they core shift what does that mean. Exactly that so if you have a lifter journal that's tight are several of them that block has core shifted it's no good
Your going the right way on diagnosing the problem good work 😅
I can’t 100% determine what caused it though.
Great video. Love these 'detective' videos. Hope you can make the parts work, get the old 454 rebuilt and move forward with the C10 shop truck. Be safe and stay well.
I like prolong oil additive super lube that works realy well on friction and wear try it your motor will run smooth and quiet.
I run Lucas race oil in mine. Never heard of prolong
Usually, when your rod bearings go bad from the front of the motor back, starvation of oil. Pull your oil pump apart. Where is the sump located in the pan?
#3 and 4 were the worst, it’s rear sump. Held 70psi or better the entire time
Larry suggested that I go back with Howard’s. Haven’t been disappointed yet. I feel like my comp cam is what took out my 327. It wasn’t completely gone and wasn’t knocking. But the bearing and crank were trash.
Idk if I can risk another flat tappet gamble I’ve personally never lost one that i installed and broke in but my luck is probably at the end of the road. Lol.
@@LeftForDeadGarage flat tappet is such a sh-t show now. I did the math on my 460 ford and its an extra $500 to go retrofit roller on it. I guess thats the price to only do it once.
@yurimodin7333 I agree, that’s a lot to risk to save some money in the beginning. Then to fix the wiped out cam would cost more money and time than it would have taken to just go roller. It’s a sad time for us hotrod guys
I’d stay away from Comp these days, but that’s me.
@alanmeyers3957 I’ve went to only using Howard’s cams, and nothing but roller now too.
U are correct about the big end of the rods needing to be truly round. It is very important for that bore to be true & round & to the proper size. And it is somtimes overlooked in home builds. The tolerances for the size & roundness for the big end of the rods are very tight! Not somthing anybody can ever see witb the naked eye. On my fords the tolerances on the rod bores are .0008. Less than .001 of tolerance. Alot of bore guages measure down to half a thou. That is not precise enuf to measure that. You need a guage that measures down to .0001! Becose half a thou is .005. If it is accurate to that + or - that is a total of .001, they only have a tolerance of .0008 to be in or out. U need a guage that measures to .0001 accuracy. This needs to be checked with the rod caps torqued to spec.
Now if you are in tolerance now lets talk about the bearing shells. With bearings installed & cap torqued to spec now you measure the bore for size but not roundness. The bearing shells are nade to not be round. They should be about .005 bigger going across were they meet. This is so the rod can distort under loads & still have clearance when its running. So when measuring bearings, only measure top to bottom. Not across.
Now whatever your journals measure compared to your bearings measured you want your oil clearance to be around .002 of clearance. If you look up this clearance in a book it muggt tell you it supposed to be .0008 to .0015, this is wrong.. That clearance is to tught! U might think u want it tight? U do not!! Good rule of thumb is .001 per one inch of journal size. So if your journals measuere 2 inches then u want .002 of oil clearance. You want this larger clearance to compensate for any out of roundness or imperfections your journal might have & the larger clearance also provides more room for more oil flow wich helps lubricate the bearing & also helps cool the bearing. More oil flow= cooler bearing! If u need proof look up oil clearance for a everyday normal 454 & then look up oil clearance for a 1970 high performance 450 hp 454. It will be different! If your oil clearances are to loose, u will know becouse u might have lower oil pressure. If they are to tight evefybody will know becouse your engine will blow up in front of everybody!! Keep em loose!
I don’t have a tenths bore gauge but there may be one in the cabinet at work, not that I really need it for the crude way I was checking them. Going to make myself a rod vise next week, I’ve got all my materials rounded up. I’ve always went by the .001 per inch on clearances,it’s worked fine for me so far. I’ve still not nailed down on what happened to cause it to wreck the bearings. I pulled the crank, should have done it on the video. Bearings were beat up but not like the rods. Now Iam concerned since I don’t know for sure what caused it to do this. I also don’t know the full history of this motor either so maybe it was hurt before I got it.
Thanks for watching and sharing all that info.
I have a suggestion, build the engine with no intake, build oil pressure, mark the lifters, turn the engine, if the lifters dont turn they are not going to when the engine starts and will go flat.
It won’t go back together with a flat tappet cam, it’s roller or nothing anymore.
The bearing lose in the rod end means it lost its crush and was fixen to spin.
Was so close to being a bigger disaster
Hydraulic roller time. You will be so much happier!
For sure, I can’t gamble anymore on today’s flat tappet cams.
Thanks for watching
When looking at your rod bearings the rod half of the bearing will always be worse than the cap half of the bearing. & when looking at main bearings the cap half of the bearing will always be worse than the block half of the bearing. Thats were all the pressure is when the engine runs.
If it is a 5th gen with open chamber heads with peanut ports,it doesnt have a chance to make any power.
For the little I did get to drive it it ran way better than I figured it would. Rotate the earth ? Nope, but it was healthy. It’s a real shame it went the way it did, but I was taking a gamble on an unknown motor and here we are. 🤷🏻♂️
It's easy to make 500+ lbs of torque with peanut port heads. They are cheap if not free. Good burnout heads.(lots of low rpm torque)
Miss matched bearings to crank I'm guessing
Crank and bearings were a both .020/.020
I have reused used flat tappet cams successfully before. Sevral times actually. And i dont mean i disabled a engine & then put the same engine back together with all its original parts. I mean i have taken camshafts out of one engine & then installed it in a completely different engine. And i have boughten completly new set of lifters & used them on a used flat tappet camshaft successfully. Even though it was a used camshaft i did the break in process over again with the new lifters. But i have never had a camshaft failure even with doing things like that. The engines i did that with were not big block chevys. Idk if some engines are more prone to cam failures than others? But mine have all been successful.
I’ve never swapped them from one to another. When we did the motor in the red el camino we reused the cam and lifters in it just to avoid the flat tappet gamble. Iam not sure in this 454 had ever been ran before I got it so it could have been hurt before.
@LeftForDeadGarage after watching the full video & hearing it sounds like it had been together for awhile, my take on it is it was just wore out. From age & use, but not really any failure or improper maintenance. The specs for that cam are much bigger & much more aggressive compared to stock. Some folks might say it isn't a big cam, but compared to stock it is much bigger. And it requires much stronger valve springs. It has more aggressive ramps wich are harder for a lifter to climb & add in alot more pressure on the lifter from the much stronger springs simply makes for possibly a good running camshaft, but life expectancy is shorter when u factor in the details. Using proper oil & being broke in properly all become much more important the more aggressive the cam is. And it sounds like all that was dun correctly. But it just has run its cycle. The wear on the bearings suggest the same also to me. I noticed they became alittle better shape the closer you got to the oil pump. Normal wear & tare. I dont think it looked like any damage was from one thing to another? I'm not a professional engine builder so maybey im missing somthing but as a hobby with my own engines I love building them! And I've dun a few things that are supposed to be automatic no no's & discovered the myths are somtimes bigger than the actual problems.
Good video man. I've never seen ur channel before.
@jesseduke694 this motor only had about 15 miles on it. It may have been started and broke in before I got it but that’s all if that. I have a “first start” video I’ll post the link. I got this motor from a friend and it was gone though for him.
@jesseduke694 454 big block Chevy break in
th-cam.com/video/xp7kpm_8yXk/w-d-xo.html
I've also had plenty of luck with flat tappet's. The proper break in is necessary. I run delo and break in zinc for the break in and delo and Lucas 10% ish. Keep it full and changed should be good
That motor was together WAY too long to be a "fitment" issue. I am thinking an oiling issue. Slow/inadequate oil to the rods. Need to pull the oil pump apart and check all the oil passages for trash.
It was supposed to have been put together and just say around. I only put maybe 15 miles on it and it kept 70+ oil psi
@LeftForDeadGarage I am having trouble wrapping my brain around wearing all the way down in the copper in about 2 hours run time and it didn't seize up or spin bearings??? Especially at 70psi oil pressure?Something fishy here!
The only reason I really caught the death rattle is when I swapped from 40 series flowmasters to the flow FX mufflers. It’s a few videos back in this 73 C10 playlist. There is also a single “first start” video on this motor from a little while back. I fired it on the engine stand with radiator and all hooked up.
Ive ran crowler cams and lifters vig and small blocks alike for the better part of 40 years never had a problem yet
The last 15 years has been a real gamble on flat tappet cams, especially with imported parts.
Cam eating motors all over TH-cam and many, many discussions.
For sure, it’s the flat tappet apocalypse lol
Where's the oil pump?
In the scrap bin, it looked fine on the inside. This motor held 70+psi the entire time
Plasticguage that motor and place correct bearings
, I’ll bring my mics and bore gauge home from work when it goes back together and measure everything.
im thinking oil pump failure......
Had up to 70-80 psi the entire time, it only had maybe 15 miles of street driving. I had efi on it at the time so it was 15 miles of trying to let that stuff learn. I didn’t even get a chance to beat on it, I guess it’s a good thing I didn’t or I may of had a lot more junk parts.
a Comp flat tappet going bad........that never happens
The motor had been together for a good while, I was hoping for the best. However I do not know if it was ever ran before I got ahold of it. So even though I did the break in it may have already been on its way out.
What went wrong???? YOU USED A SHITTY CHEVEY. MOPAR AND BIG BLOCK FORD RULE.
😂😂😂. It’s spelled Chevy.
People pay attention on old cast iron blocks they core shift what does that mean. Exactly that so if you have a lifter journal that's tight are several of them that block has core shifted it's no good
I actually looked at that, it’s not a problem with this block.
On mine the oil pump failed