I'd probably include Borodin's second symphony. It used to be really popular and I still love it. The melodies are unmistakably Borodin and a ton of fun. And speaking of Russians, I'd also add Rachmaninoff's second symphony. It's possibly his most popular symphony, incredibly characteristic and gorgeous when done right. Finally, I'd add Christopher Rouse's second symphony. It's where he really starts to sound like himself. It's one of my favorite of his symphonies.
I think Beethoven 2 and Brahms 2 both worth a shot. For some reason I just keep coming back to Beethoven's even symphonies, instead of odd ones. All of them, 2,4,6,8, I mean, just by mentioning them. They are such delightful, humorous with so much humanity.
I feel like David molded this list to focus on the two extremes: the underrated works that are more forgotten nowadays and need mentioning, and the works that are so monumental and Earth-shattering (Mahler especially) that you can’t NOT mention them. Leaving out the well known, but “usual suspect” types like Beethoven 2, Brahms 2, or rach 2 makes room for some of the underdogs since all those other works could go without mentioning.
You can always renumber them using even numbers only. Might help you coming back to 3, 5, 7 and 9. They're not that bad after all! You can also skip 1 entirely by renumbering it zero
Aaah ! I was waiting with bated breath, and great optimism - and you delivered !! Yes, you came to the Second Symphony of Sir Arnold Bax ! Joyful and enthusiastic cheers burst from me. Hurrah and thanks ! Very Best Regards.
David, you made my day by including Ives and Hovhaness, which I really didn't expect. One of my great pleasures was telling Hovhaness to his face how much I adore Mysterious Mountain. In 1980 I attended the Ring Cycle in Seattle during which Hovhaness offered analysis and commentary. Memorable experience. Yes, Mahler's #2 is certainly an event. But seeing Bernstein do it was an event to some exponential power.
Another great list...which I'll make even greater (ahem) by adding Tippett. What an electrifying piece! The C. Davis/LSO performance would definitely be on my faves list. Thanks!
I will add Dutilleux symphony 2. Wonderful work in the lineage of great french composers like Ravel, Debussy and Ravel with a little jazz touch.
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Just for the record, one of my favorite Seconds is Honegger's. It's written for string orchestra, and I think very few compositions show such a masterful and expressive command of the medium. The trumpet hymn added in the last minutes over the ebulient strings makes for a big surprise.
You've made my day! Thank you so much for mentioning Alfredo Casella. A new discovery for me. The Noseda recording with the BBC Philharmonic Orchestra is gorgeous.
Saw a live performance of Mahler's 2nd when I was a kid with Leonard Bernstein, Barbara Hendricks, Jessye Norman and the NY Philharmonic. It changed my life. Mahler's 2nd is utterly profound, easily my favorite "2nd".
Yep. You got me. I was waiting for Mahler2. 😬 Regarding other number 2s... I have a soft spot for Brahms2. I've always loved the second subject of the first movement and the finale is very enjoyable. And Borodin, his second especially with Kondrashin conducting is 👌🏻
Agree with you completely- the M2 is to me, the most emotional piece of music ever written- even gets to me far more than Beethovens choral, as far as gut wrenching drama.
There are so many superb second symphonies! Delighted to see names like Bax, Hovhaness, Casella, and other underrated worthies on your list. As with some other commenty people, I’d add Borodin as well.
If the criteria include distinctly individual expression of the composer and outstanding achievement in the form, it’s hard to see any of Mahler’s not making the cut.
@@jakenowell5211 You’re twisting my words. I never said Mahler isn’t a great composer and that he doesn’t deserve to be popular. All I’m saying is, he doesn’t deserve to receive *disproportionately* more attention that hundreds of other deserving composers. Every time a Mahler symphony gets played for the hundredth time, it means that scores of numerous other wonderful works are missing chances for exposure.
Each of these lists is like a cornucopia of delight! I immediately went to listen to the Kurt Weill. My own list would include Furtwangler’s 2nd. It has one of the most beautiful opening statements of any symphony, ever. I remember telling a musicologist in Germany that I thought of Furtwangler primarily as a composer. I imagine he was having a heart attack during his ensuing silence.
Here's a vote for Gorecki Symphony No. 2 "Copernican". Such a deeply moving work that has more contrast between the first part and the second than any other work I can think of. What a journey!
I’m looking through my own list and there really are a few wonderful Symphonies No. 2. Others include Piston, Eyvind Alnaes, Mendelssohn, Friedrich Gernsheim, Henri Sauguet, Carl Reinecke, Ture Rangstrom, Charles Tournemire, Giovanni Sgambati, Scriabin, Anton Rubinstein, and Robert Fuchs.
Gernsheim, Rubinstein and especially Sgambatti 2s are well worth discovering if one is into the sound and soul of the Romantic symphony. Maybe not individual enough to make the list (look, even Brahms 2 did not "do" it for Dave - and I, for one, agree). But those wonderful works deserve to be mentioned in the context.
Randall Thompson’s 2nd Symphony is absolutely charming! Bernstein having done the best of the three I have heard. His 1 & 3 don’t do much for me, but I adore no. 2!
Perry Como was definitely a lounge act. Maestro Simone Young will be conducting Vaughn Williams symphony 2 with SSO February next year, and i for one can’t wait. What a glorious work! Ive come to Williams quite late in my life but i am hooked.
Superb list, Dave! I’m entertained by some of the folks in the comments who are butt-hurt because you included lesser-known works instead of all warhorses. Narrow-mindedness is a disease that spreads particularly rapidly in the classical music world, it seems.
I would like to throw Mendelsshon symphony 2 in the mix. I love the way symphonic form is played with after the 3rd movement, and it never fails to provide one surprise after another each time I listen to it.
The problem with Mendelssohn is whether we go "by the numbers", or by chronology. I believe you are talking about the "Lobgesang", and I have such warm emotions for it. One of the first attempts (after Beethoven, of course) to insert human voices into a symphonic setting, although in reality it seems as if in two parts, the last movement not being organically integrated into what came before. That might have been the reason Dave chose to omit it - or, as mentioned, only because it is really Mendelssohn's 4th! :) Something tells me we are surely going to find the "Scottish", and maybe (the popular) "Italian", in Dave's upcoming lists.
What a fun and thought provoking list. So many great works! I concur with an earlier post about Chavez's Sinfonia India. So much wonderful music packed into the span of 10 mins.
Great list, putting sheer greatness and originality over popularity! I expect Brahms 4th will make the cut at a later stage though but I suspect the classical music's conservative party will be fuming over his 2nd not showing up on your list (I bet the comment section is littered with its smoke trail), that Beethoven will be a regular feature of the series starting with the "Eroica" (otherwise the conservative party will issue a fatwah), and that Rachmaninoff will never make the cut (if he didn't here - have to admit his symphonies tire me, but I love the "Symphonic Dances" and "The Bells"). Also, can't imagine those lists without Mahler appearing in all of them. Going back to your selection: Bax 2nd teleports you instantly to planet Baxia, and the Lyrita edition is the way to go! You are so obviously right to have included it. Bravo! I love that work so much. Same thing with Weill's 2nd, but you get teleported to some other yet unnamed planet rather than Baxia. Not sure Arnold's and Elgar's really belong here, but what the heck, it's your list. I'd have probably included Villa Lobos to both 1 and 2, and Milhaud's 1st (personal voice fully mature already) to the previous list, but maybe not his 2nd. Otherwise, I'm amazed by how much I agree with you. Eerie...
Wonderful video, Dave! It expands my horizons. My two ears have yet again lots of exciting music to discover. They already have begun glowing in anticipation....:-)
Dave, I think you did a good job for an impossible task. Personally I would have done about 20-25 in this list and also included: Carlos Chavez - Sinfonia India (such a fun work) Tikhon Khrennikov (yes, he was a horrible person, but I love this piece) Sergei Rachmaninov Josef Suk - Asrael Hugo Alfven Alexander Borodin Miloslav Kabelac (I believe it to be a masterpiece of an underrated symphonist) Leif Kayser (another masterpiece of another underrated symphonist) and some others that I feel are worthy of consideration: Karl Amadeus Hartmann - Adagio David Maslanka (probably my favorite band symphony to play) Krzysztof Penderecki (my personal favorite of his) Allan Pettersson (his first completed symphony - could have been written by no one else) George Rochberg
Great list and series! So glad to see the Arnold, Bax, and Hanson, on there...and I can't wait to check out the Englund and Casella 2nd's as well. I do have to agree with the others though, in that I expected the Borodin 2nd to be on the list, but a great talk nonetheless!
Without 3 or 4 of the list (Mahler, Sibelius etc) this could be a list of underrated 2nd symphonies. Rather surprising to exclude Beethoven, Brahms, Nielsen, Rachmaninov etc. Would be good to see 10 of the best (as for the previous list).
Spot on. I’m not quite sure what this list is - maybe it’s just 16 second symphonies worth getting to know. I assume it’s not the most significant - or highly rated - second symphonies. A list of 10 of the most under-performed (or underrated) second symphonies would also have been interesting.
My personal faves not included on your list: Roger Sessions and Lutoslawski. I'm eternally grateful that we have a great recording of the Sessions by Blomstedt/San Fransisco.
Thanks for calling attention to and defending some of these neglected masterworks. I love Englund 2. If one gives it a shot, it's really compelling music with a mood and character all its own.
A great list - many I have not heard, so now I will listen to them! One of my personal absolute favorite 2nd symphonies is Prokofiev's. And I can understand it not being on this list for reasons presented, but it's a terrific piece and I find it endlessly fascinating. The deliberate harshness with really odd melodies, and the beautiful theme in the second movement with the inventive variations. That's just me - just wanted to tip the lid that fine 2nd!
I agree with almost all the no.2's included here. Especially delighted to see the Casella and Bax there. But I also agree with those who call for the brilliant 2nd symphonies of Brahms and Rachmaninov to have been included. And personally, although very few will agree with me, I would have included the iron-and-steel Prokofiev no.2. And as desert, just to please David Hurwitz, the Khachaturian no.2
Fine list but if we're not limited to only ten, I'd have to add to your 16 the pieces others have mentioned (Borodin, Brahms); Schumann 2nd, his greatest symphony especially for the sublime slow movement, and definitely Chavez' 2nd, Sinfonia India , exhilarating, exciting and a seminal work that forged a national style or at least Chávez' style. I'd also be much more likely to list Schubert's Symphony 2 than Beethoven's for its rhythmic verve, exuberant spirits and exquisite set of variations to set off the other mvts. P.S. I think that back in the day they used to refer to Perry Como as Perry Coma.
An interesting list! In an alternative list of 16 of the finest second symphonies most musicians would include Brahms, Beethoven, Schumann, Nielsen, Tchaik.
I would never trust musicians to judge. They don't know enough repertoire and they are usually terrible listeners because they tend to be so instrument-specific.
@@DavesClassicalGuide But you're a musician as well. Should we trust you to review music that doesn't have a prominent tam-tam part? Or should we not trust you to review music that has a tam-tam part?
It seems we don't like ostentatious climaxes. A bit like our cathedrals with their square east ends as opposed to the great apsidal pile ups that the French and Germans go in for.
I'm enjoying these lists tremendously Dave. Thanks so much! Some of the suggestions are new to me, so that's a real bonus. Perhaps not quite "great"but a favourite nonetheless is Enescu 2.
I'm loving this series . . . because I love symphonies. No.2 symphonies is a rather crowded field. I couldn't recommend replacing any of your selections-they all warrant a place-but there are just so many good nos.2. I could easily imagine a list of 25 or more. Some I personally like of no necessary consequence to anybody who isn't me: -Doderer's "Bohinj" (2015): Inspired by the lakey region of the same name. -Huber's op.115 "Böcklin": Inspired by paintings by Böcklin, of course. -Lars-Erik Larsson's op.17: I like all his symphonies, all from relatively early in his output as composer. -Madetoja's op.35: I love its atypical structure: that intense climax in the third movement and the fourth essentially an epilogue winding down from there. -Ludolf Nielsen's op.19: A little love for the other, much more conservative Nielsen. He's not breaking Carl-like new ground with his symphonies, but Ludolf's three are all enjoyable expressions of a late-romantic vocabulary and his second is my favorite. -Sgambati (1885): perhaps mostly (and rightly) remembered for his piano music, but Italian symphonies of the high romantic era are so rare. The opening movement I think is especially enjoyable . . . and perhaps more noteworthy than Martucci's too-conventional op.81. -Stenhammar's op.34: of course, celebrated for Stenhammar's discovery of his "Nordic" symphonic voice, but I like both of 'em. -Tournemire's op.36 "Oessant": his second of eight, this symphony is considered the first to express Tournemire's obsession with Catholic mysticism. -Tubin's "The Legendary": I love its semi-spooky opening evolving to a resolute "tempestoso" finale. -Woyrsch's op. 60: the longest (and my favorite) of his five.
Interesting list of 2s to explore! Seconding some others re Brahms 2, Borodin 2, Tippett 2, and although you’re now by the conventional numbers, I believe Schumann 4 is actually his second. Lots of interesting things on your list to explore, but I’d stuck my neck out and say these 4 are really better works than some of these
Ok, I would include Brahms, but then you could have all 4 on these lists. Hurray for the ives ! I hope to see a Rubbra symphony coming up on these lists 🙏
no mention about Prokofiev? I was shocked the first time I listened to his Second, right after the First. I had to double check I was listening to the same composer 😅
Thanks, David. This is a great series - a chance to learn about some music that is new to me. I have been making my own list before watching each of your videos. I was astonished to find that only two of my ten made your list - Sibelius and Mahler. Two "Seconds" that I think deserve consideration are Walton and Piston. I think Walton's 2nd is far superior to his much more popular 1st. It has that quality of uniqueness of style that instantly identifies the composer. Give it a try. Piston's Second has always been one of my favorites. The first movement especially really speaks to me, and reminds me of the emotional power of some of Tchaikovsky's symphonies.
I think Walton 2 suffers from a lack of good recordings. I didn't like it based on recordings I had heard, but then heard Previn conduct it in Cleveland and I was converted.
@@steveclaflin594 I don't know what you've heard, but there are several fine versions of this symphony, beginning with Szell's, and continuing with Previn, Mackerras, Litton, Karabits, etc, etc.
@@DavesClassicalGuide I'll look into those. I guess I spoke from somewhat incomplete knowledge. Way back in my youth I bought a recording of 2 because I had discovered 1 and loved it. I was disappointed, but bought a different one a few years later, also disappointing. And, sad to say, I kind of gave up on it at that point. When I heard it live, I actually thought I was buying a ticket to #1. Got to the hall and thought "Oh crap", but was then blown away by the performance. I'll look into those you suggested. Some are probably available on TH-cam at this point.
Hi Dave, I'm concerned that the Haydn symphony crusade has fallen by the wayside with all these Dave's Faves and Symphonies by Numbers. I appreciate it's hard work and that Haydn symphony cycles are a bit of a graveyard for good intentions but perhaps you might move it along by jumping ahead from (say) 42 to 62 and 82 so we can get an idea of his progression without going one step at a time.
It's still going, with something new every week or two. And so it will continue, for as long as it takes to finish. If it has slowed down a bit it's only because I have to deal with copyright claims just about every time now, and it's very annoying.
Oh how I enjoyed this video! So many interesting choices, and at least 2 for which I am unfamiliar and looking forward to exploring. I appreciate how the bookends here are undoubtedly the two most popular second symphonies in the repertoire. HOWEVER (and I say that word in my best Hurwitz accent lol) the Brahms 2 was a shocking omission for me... because it's just so.... GREAT. I don't know another word for it, but I know there've been enough comments mentioning the omission, but I just would say Brahms is definitely not a primarily chamber composer to me. He is an everything but opera composer and he excelled in everything he touched. At least that's my view. I was so pleased to the mention of Schmidt's second symphony who I think is underrated. I need to explore Weill's and Englund's symphonies. Can't wait! And.... Can't wait for your No. 3s list!
I often wonder just how great Brahms really was--how much of the accolades stem from sheer inertia. I mean, of course he was a great symphonist, and No. 2 is a lovely work, but I don't think we need to say that everything is equally great, and leaving something off of a list doesn't mean it's bad--just that I (at least) had other priorities and it's not a bad thing to let someone else have his spot now and then.
@@DavesClassicalGuide I agree. I PREFER hearing honest opinions that don't simply regurgitate common praise. But in this case, I'd say the Brahms 2nd Symphony is truly great. In addition to his symphonies, I consider Brahms the greatest concerto composer after Mozart and Beethoven. After watching hundreds of your videos and reading your reviews over the years, it just seems that Brahms isn't your essential flavor, but that you appreciate him. I really enjoy the bravery. A lot of people in your chair would never be willing to publicly criticize a work so well esteemed - case in point - your comments about the Sibelius 2 finale, which I don't fully agree with, but I enjoy hearing you be so bold! :)
@@davidsolomon7101 But I haven't criticized the work at all. I just left it off a list, and suggested that other works may have equal merit. The inferences being drawn from that are ridiculous, and say far more about those making them than they do about me. It is true that I admire Brahms more than I love him, but that has nothing to do with it. Those lists are full of works that I don't love at all. Just as many people have said I should have included Borodin's 2nd, which I certainly would have done ahead of the Brahms, not because it's "better" or "greater," but because it's a one-off masterpiece, whereas I've already included Brahms in the previous list.
Paul Creston's second symphony...now that's a symphony that ought to be heard more often. It feels weirdly modeled on Handel's Belshazzar overture with its forward motivic theme that then goes into reverse. Speaking of Handel inspirations, Uuno Klami and his huge Handel homage is a major and fun piece. Maybe a video about Handel as inspiration throughout the decades? Bach's influence seems to go without saying, but Handel's could use some reassesment.
What fun! Mahler #2 is my favorite symphony (I have more recordings of this work than any other), and Hanson #2 is my guilty pleasure and favorite symphony to put in a list. Two years ago, during the Pandemic Vow of Solitude, a few friends and I had a game where we made list of our favorite symphonies with numbers 1 to 9, with the stipulation that you could not list a composer twice. It isn´t an easy task. Here was my list: 1. Copland (mysteriously missing from Dave´s list) 2. Hanson 3. Saint-Saens 4. Bruckner 5. Shostakovich 6. Tchaikovsky 7. Sibeilus 8. Mahler 9. Beethoven
Reading the comments, I get the sense that there's some confusion about your criteria, though I thought you were pretty clear. Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but you've been emphasizing symphonies that are the first expression of a composer's unique qualities, and are also great pieces of music. So your list isn't about your favorite's, or simply what you consider great 2nd symphonies. Hence the absence of Brahms's 2nd, for example, etc. I think your point about the golden age of symphonic music really makes sense. Anyway, this has been a really fun and enlightening series. We're grateful for all of the time and work you put into these videos that we get to enjoy daily for free - really a labor of love. Thanks!
There are at least two brazilian composers who have made lovely second symphonies and who I think should be included in this discussion, Carmargo Guarnieri ("Uirapuru") and Guerra-Peixe ("Brasília").
Not sure if this would count as a symphony, but Villa lobos’ Bachianas Brasileiras no. 2 is also worth a mention. As a Brazilian, the “trenzinho do caipira” tune in the fourth movement and the trombone solo in the third movement are one of the most nostalgic melodies I’ve heard.
Terrific list, as is customary, including a couple I haven't yet heard (but not for long). This series, like all of yours, provides a treasure trove for classical fans of all ilks. Well done.
Hurrah for the mention of VW's London symphony - my favorite from him, especially the slow movement. Another possible inclusion, at least for me, is Penderecki's 2nd, a wonderful work.
Looking forward to your picks here that I don't know. Especially the Weill. I would add these to your fine list: Schuman's 2nd, Brahms 2nd, and last and certainly not least, Thompson's 2nd. I'm delighted you mentioned Ive's 2nd. The end of the symphony is really a parade. One of the most jubilant things in music.
Just heard Edo de Waart conduct the Weill. Absolutely first rate! The last movement is great! Superb sound and orchestra razor sharp! Weill didn't seem very interested in percussion. ? Thanx David!
Listen to the Beaumont recording on Chandos, with the percussion parts restored. He added them later at Bruno Walter's suggestion, actually, but they are original and very effective.
Bruckner’s #2. Not just because it’s still my favorite Bruckner Symphony. I know it’s not one of his finest. It just touches my heart. I think it’s much more deserving a mention than, say, Kurt Wieill, or Bax or Copland, etc.
Interesting list! I think Nielsen’s, Dutilleux’s, Brahms’ , and Tchaikovsky’s should have been included over several of the ones you included, such as Hanson and Hovhaness though I really like theirs also.
I must say, sticking with the incomparable first guy of the previous list: Harold in Italy, Berlioz’ second symphony. I know, I know: the symphony is so weird, and the viola solo just propels it out of the purely symphonic, but gosh, does this symphony stand on its own!
I have a proposal to save you some work - just declare that Mahler's symphonies 1-10 are the best for each number, and maybe 1-11 if you count Das Lied !
I'm listening to this now and checked back to see if anyone had mentioned it on this thread. I enjoy this symphony, and would suggest it is worthy of consideration. I keep meaning to listen to his other symphonies.
I really like Rachmaninoff No.2 because of the incredibly beautiful melodies. May be I am not too technical but I like music that brings out the emotion, music that touches my soul. It is just a personal choice. By the way, my favorite Rachmaninoff No.2 is Ormandy/Philadelphia, and may be Svetlanov
I do not quite understand your criterion in this talk. Do your choices have to be completely unique or is the greatness of the work more important? Surely Brahms and Schumann’s second symphonies are greater works than all on your list except Mahler’s Symphony No. 2 and possibly Sibelius.
I just love Mahler 2. To me, it represents not only the height of Mahler’s symphonic art, but the whole of western symphonic art. I just wish rach 2 was on the list.
Well, this is a list of person, who has a good taste and large knowledge of musical literature. Ok, but millions, MILLIONS people dont know who is Hovhaness, Casella and even Elgar. But they know and love Rachmaninov 2nd symphony, they pay for it, they hold 3rd movement in playlists between k-pop and Ed Sheeran. I mean Its ok that Dave didnt include Rach piece in this scroll, but its really strange for me... and for millions people.
1. Rach 2 is not as popular as you claim. 2. This is mostly a channel for CM enthusiasts who've all heard Rach 2. A video listing mostly unpopular Symphony 2s worth hearing is arguably more valuable to them than a list of warhorses.
@@murraylow4523 "Warhorses" isn't an insult. I mean that CM enthusiasts have heard the warhorses before and would benefit more from a list including mostly nonwarhorses. Some enthusiasts tire of hearing different recordings of the same works over and over again. Hurwitz might like these symphonies as much or more than Rach 2 and Brahms 2. He's listened to tons of symphonies, and so can evaluate what he likes and doesn't like better than I can. The forum Talk Classical is doing top ten lists of symphonies by number right now, and if you'll go there, you'd find different orderings of the warhorses and a few less popular symphonies that the posters have all heard (like Suk's Asrael Symphony and Borodin Symphony no. 2).
I'd probably include Borodin's second symphony. It used to be really popular and I still love it. The melodies are unmistakably Borodin and a ton of fun. And speaking of Russians, I'd also add Rachmaninoff's second symphony. It's possibly his most popular symphony, incredibly characteristic and gorgeous when done right. Finally, I'd add Christopher Rouse's second symphony. It's where he really starts to sound like himself. It's one of my favorite of his symphonies.
I was somewhat put out that Borodin got missed, but Mr Hurwitz has included some that needed a mention and left out some that didn't need pushing.
@@ayethein7681 I think it was Dave’s 16 faves.
Brahms, Rach, Borodin, and Tchaikovsky would round out a top 20.
Tchaikovsky's no.2 "Little Russian" is one of the most exciting pieces I have ever heard.
I think Beethoven 2 and Brahms 2 both worth a shot. For some reason I just keep coming back to Beethoven's even symphonies, instead of odd ones. All of them, 2,4,6,8, I mean, just by mentioning them. They are such delightful, humorous with so much humanity.
Quite agree.
I feel like David molded this list to focus on the two extremes: the underrated works that are more forgotten nowadays and need mentioning, and the works that are so monumental and Earth-shattering (Mahler especially) that you can’t NOT mention them. Leaving out the well known, but “usual suspect” types like Beethoven 2, Brahms 2, or rach 2 makes room for some of the underdogs since all those other works could go without mentioning.
@@pprudencio1966 I think that makes a lot of sense.
You can always renumber them using even numbers only. Might help you coming back to 3, 5, 7 and 9. They're not that bad after all! You can also skip 1 entirely by renumbering it zero
Indeed--4 and 8 have long been my favorites!
Aaah ! I was waiting with bated breath, and great optimism - and you delivered !! Yes, you came to the Second Symphony of Sir Arnold Bax ! Joyful and enthusiastic cheers burst from me. Hurrah and thanks ! Very Best Regards.
David, you made my day by including Ives and Hovhaness, which I really didn't expect. One of my great pleasures was telling Hovhaness to his face how much I adore Mysterious Mountain. In 1980 I attended the Ring Cycle in Seattle during which Hovhaness offered analysis and commentary. Memorable experience. Yes, Mahler's #2 is certainly an event. But seeing Bernstein do it was an event to some exponential power.
Another great list...which I'll make even greater (ahem) by adding Tippett. What an electrifying piece! The C. Davis/LSO performance would definitely be on my faves list. Thanks!
I will add Dutilleux symphony 2.
Wonderful work in the lineage of great french composers like Ravel, Debussy and Ravel with a little jazz touch.
Just for the record, one of my favorite Seconds is Honegger's. It's written for string orchestra, and I think very few compositions show such a masterful and expressive command of the medium. The trumpet hymn added in the last minutes over the ebulient strings makes for a big surprise.
You've made my day! Thank you so much for mentioning Alfredo Casella. A new discovery for me. The Noseda recording with the BBC Philharmonic Orchestra is gorgeous.
Yep, I agree with all of these. I was particularly gratified to see Casella there, a piece I've always loved.
The absence of the 'Asrael' symphony has surprised me, knowing it's a work DH loves -and because it's an extraordinary second...
Saw a live performance of Mahler's 2nd when I was a kid with Leonard Bernstein, Barbara Hendricks, Jessye Norman and the NY Philharmonic. It changed my life. Mahler's 2nd is utterly profound, easily my favorite "2nd".
Yep. You got me. I was waiting for Mahler2. 😬
Regarding other number 2s...
I have a soft spot for Brahms2. I've always loved the second subject of the first movement and the finale is very enjoyable.
And Borodin, his second especially with Kondrashin conducting is 👌🏻
Agree with you completely- the M2 is to me, the most emotional piece of music ever written- even gets to me far more than Beethovens choral, as far as gut wrenching drama.
There are so many superb second symphonies! Delighted to see names like Bax, Hovhaness, Casella, and other underrated worthies on your list. As with some other commenty people, I’d add Borodin as well.
I have a feeling Mahler will be a regular showing in this series, and I’m all for it!
If the criteria include distinctly individual expression of the composer and outstanding achievement in the form, it’s hard to see any of Mahler’s not making the cut.
Hopefully the same will happen for Bruckner. I really think he will appear in every single video starting from No. 4
Well, there’s so many great composers out there besides Mahler….Plus, let’s not kid ourselves, the guy gets enough attention as it is.
@@kylejohnson8877 he gets a lot of attention because he's a wonderful symphonist. Don't dis-include his works because just because he's popular.
@@jakenowell5211 You’re twisting my words. I never said Mahler isn’t a great composer and that he doesn’t deserve to be popular. All I’m saying is, he doesn’t deserve to receive *disproportionately* more attention that hundreds of other deserving composers. Every time a Mahler symphony gets played for the hundredth time, it means that scores of numerous other wonderful works are missing chances for exposure.
Each of these lists is like a cornucopia of delight! I immediately went to listen to the Kurt Weill.
My own list would include Furtwangler’s 2nd. It has one of the most beautiful opening statements of any symphony, ever. I remember telling a musicologist in Germany that I thought of Furtwangler primarily as a composer. I imagine he was having a heart attack during his ensuing silence.
Here's a vote for Gorecki Symphony No. 2 "Copernican". Such a deeply moving work that has more contrast between the first part and the second than any other work I can think of. What a journey!
I’m looking through my own list and there really are a few wonderful Symphonies No. 2.
Others include Piston, Eyvind Alnaes, Mendelssohn, Friedrich Gernsheim, Henri Sauguet, Carl Reinecke, Ture Rangstrom, Charles Tournemire, Giovanni Sgambati, Scriabin, Anton Rubinstein, and Robert Fuchs.
Gernsheim, Rubinstein and especially Sgambatti 2s are well worth discovering if one is into the sound and soul of the Romantic symphony. Maybe not individual enough to make the list (look, even Brahms 2 did not "do" it for Dave - and I, for one, agree). But those wonderful works deserve to be mentioned in the context.
A worthy list of additions, Owen.
So glad to hear your comments on Hanson’s Second. Many snobs disdain things that sound beautiful.
Oh dear if you have to reach for the “snob” word I’m not sure what you’re saying
Randall Thompson’s 2nd Symphony is absolutely charming! Bernstein having done the best of the three I have heard. His 1 & 3 don’t do much for me, but I adore no. 2!
Bernstein’s 2nd is my favourite of the trilogy. Has so much. Going for it.
It’s symphonies number one (or two) if you really care. Nice list. I’d put Brahms 2 on my own list.
Perry Como was definitely a lounge act. Maestro Simone Young will be conducting Vaughn Williams symphony 2 with SSO February next year, and i for one can’t wait. What a glorious work! Ive come to Williams quite late in my life but i am hooked.
Superb list, Dave! I’m entertained by some of the folks in the comments who are butt-hurt because you included lesser-known works instead of all warhorses. Narrow-mindedness is a disease that spreads particularly rapidly in the classical music world, it seems.
I would like to throw Mendelsshon symphony 2 in the mix. I love the way symphonic form is played with after the 3rd movement, and it never fails to provide one surprise after another each time I listen to it.
The problem with Mendelssohn is whether we go "by the numbers", or by chronology. I believe you are talking about the "Lobgesang", and I have such warm emotions for it. One of the first attempts (after Beethoven, of course) to insert human voices into a symphonic setting, although in reality it seems as if in two parts, the last movement not being organically integrated into what came before. That might have been the reason Dave chose to omit it - or, as mentioned, only because it is really Mendelssohn's 4th! :) Something tells me we are surely going to find the "Scottish", and maybe (the popular) "Italian", in Dave's upcoming lists.
What a fun and thought provoking list. So many great works! I concur with an earlier post about Chavez's Sinfonia India. So much
wonderful music packed into the span of 10 mins.
Great list, putting sheer greatness and originality over popularity! I expect Brahms 4th will make the cut at a later stage though but I suspect the classical music's conservative party will be fuming over his 2nd not showing up on your list (I bet the comment section is littered with its smoke trail), that Beethoven will be a regular feature of the series starting with the "Eroica" (otherwise the conservative party will issue a fatwah), and that Rachmaninoff will never make the cut (if he didn't here - have to admit his symphonies tire me, but I love the "Symphonic Dances" and "The Bells"). Also, can't imagine those lists without Mahler appearing in all of them.
Going back to your selection: Bax 2nd teleports you instantly to planet Baxia, and the Lyrita edition is the way to go! You are so obviously right to have included it. Bravo! I love that work so much. Same thing with Weill's 2nd, but you get teleported to some other yet unnamed planet rather than Baxia. Not sure Arnold's and Elgar's really belong here, but what the heck, it's your list. I'd have probably included Villa Lobos to both 1 and 2, and Milhaud's 1st (personal voice fully mature already) to the previous list, but maybe not his 2nd. Otherwise, I'm amazed by how much I agree with you. Eerie...
Wonderful video, Dave! It expands my horizons. My two ears have yet again lots of exciting music to discover. They already have begun glowing in anticipation....:-)
Dave, I think you did a good job for an impossible task. Personally I would have done about 20-25 in this list and also included:
Carlos Chavez - Sinfonia India (such a fun work)
Tikhon Khrennikov (yes, he was a horrible person, but I love this piece)
Sergei Rachmaninov
Josef Suk - Asrael
Hugo Alfven
Alexander Borodin
Miloslav Kabelac (I believe it to be a masterpiece of an underrated symphonist)
Leif Kayser (another masterpiece of another underrated symphonist)
and some others that I feel are worthy of consideration:
Karl Amadeus Hartmann - Adagio
David Maslanka (probably my favorite band symphony to play)
Krzysztof Penderecki (my personal favorite of his)
Allan Pettersson (his first completed symphony - could have been written by no one else)
George Rochberg
I was thinking "Surely Suk's Asrael will be on the list ..."
Great list and series! So glad to see the Arnold, Bax, and Hanson, on there...and I can't wait to check out the Englund and Casella 2nd's as well. I do have to agree with the others though, in that I expected the Borodin 2nd to be on the list, but a great talk nonetheless!
The 2nd is my favourite Glazunov one, but probably hardly a groundbreaking symphony, as well as Madetoja's.
Without 3 or 4 of the list (Mahler, Sibelius etc) this could be a list of underrated 2nd symphonies. Rather surprising to exclude Beethoven, Brahms, Nielsen, Rachmaninov etc. Would be good to see 10 of the best (as for the previous list).
Spot on. I’m not quite sure what this list is - maybe it’s just 16 second symphonies worth getting to know. I assume it’s not the most significant - or highly rated - second symphonies. A list of 10 of the most under-performed (or underrated) second symphonies would also have been interesting.
Of course they are the most significant. What would lead anyone to think otherwise, just because some of the more popular ones aren't there?
beethoven 1 and 2 bore me
My personal faves not included on your list: Roger Sessions and Lutoslawski. I'm eternally grateful that we have a great recording of the Sessions by Blomstedt/San Fransisco.
Thanks for calling attention to and defending some of these neglected masterworks. I love Englund 2. If one gives it a shot, it's really compelling music with a mood and character all its own.
A great list - many I have not heard, so now I will listen to them! One of my personal absolute favorite 2nd symphonies is Prokofiev's. And I can understand it not being on this list for reasons presented, but it's a terrific piece and I find it endlessly fascinating. The deliberate harshness with really odd melodies, and the beautiful theme in the second movement with the inventive variations. That's just me - just wanted to tip the lid that fine 2nd!
I agree with you.
I agree with almost all the no.2's included here. Especially delighted to see the Casella and Bax there. But I also agree with those who call for the brilliant 2nd symphonies of Brahms and Rachmaninov to have been included. And personally, although very few will agree with me, I would have included the iron-and-steel Prokofiev no.2. And as desert, just to please David Hurwitz, the Khachaturian no.2
I would love to hear a list of top 10 great orientalist works by western composers
Fine list but if we're not limited to only ten, I'd have to add to your 16 the pieces others have mentioned (Borodin, Brahms); Schumann 2nd, his greatest symphony especially for the sublime slow movement, and definitely Chavez' 2nd, Sinfonia India , exhilarating, exciting and a seminal work that forged a national style or at least Chávez' style.
I'd also be much more likely to list Schubert's Symphony 2 than Beethoven's for its rhythmic verve, exuberant spirits and exquisite set of variations to set off the other mvts.
P.S. I think that back in the day they used to refer to Perry Como as Perry Coma.
An interesting list! In an alternative list of 16 of the finest second symphonies most musicians would include Brahms, Beethoven, Schumann, Nielsen, Tchaik.
I would never trust musicians to judge. They don't know enough repertoire and they are usually terrible listeners because they tend to be so instrument-specific.
@@DavesClassicalGuide But you're a musician as well. Should we trust you to review music that doesn't have a prominent tam-tam part? Or should we not trust you to review music that has a tam-tam part?
@@PolymathCrowsbane That's your call.
I’m glad you have brought up Arnold’s No.2. I have the late Andrew Penny’s recording. BTW, what is it with British symphonies end quietly?!?!?
It seems we don't like ostentatious climaxes. A bit like our cathedrals with their square east ends as opposed to the great apsidal pile ups that the French and Germans go in for.
@@christopherpickles7541 your right there!
Yes. The Resurrection Symphony of Gustav Mahler. I was privileged enough to have played this . THANKS, David
I'm enjoying these lists tremendously Dave. Thanks so much! Some of the suggestions are new to me, so that's a real bonus. Perhaps not quite "great"but a favourite nonetheless is Enescu 2.
I'm loving this series . . . because I love symphonies. No.2 symphonies is a rather crowded field. I couldn't recommend replacing any of your selections-they all warrant a place-but there are just so many good nos.2. I could easily imagine a list of 25 or more. Some I personally like of no necessary consequence to anybody who isn't me:
-Doderer's "Bohinj" (2015): Inspired by the lakey region of the same name.
-Huber's op.115 "Böcklin": Inspired by paintings by Böcklin, of course.
-Lars-Erik Larsson's op.17: I like all his symphonies, all from relatively early in his output as composer.
-Madetoja's op.35: I love its atypical structure: that intense climax in the third movement and the fourth essentially an epilogue winding down from there.
-Ludolf Nielsen's op.19: A little love for the other, much more conservative Nielsen. He's not breaking Carl-like new ground with his symphonies, but Ludolf's three are all enjoyable expressions of a late-romantic vocabulary and his second is my favorite.
-Sgambati (1885): perhaps mostly (and rightly) remembered for his piano music, but Italian symphonies of the high romantic era are so rare. The opening movement I think is especially enjoyable . . . and perhaps more noteworthy than Martucci's too-conventional op.81.
-Stenhammar's op.34: of course, celebrated for Stenhammar's discovery of his "Nordic" symphonic voice, but I like both of 'em.
-Tournemire's op.36 "Oessant": his second of eight, this symphony is considered the first to express Tournemire's obsession with Catholic mysticism.
-Tubin's "The Legendary": I love its semi-spooky opening evolving to a resolute "tempestoso" finale.
-Woyrsch's op. 60: the longest (and my favorite) of his five.
Well it seems my faved Schubert 2nd is guilty pleasure. Though Marriner with the ASMF manage to make me believe listening to some great music.
Interesting list of 2s to explore! Seconding some others re Brahms 2, Borodin 2, Tippett 2, and although you’re now by the conventional numbers, I believe Schumann 4 is actually his second. Lots of interesting things on your list to explore, but I’d stuck my neck out and say these 4 are really better works than some of these
They're not. You can pull your neck back in now.
Ok, I would include Brahms, but then you could have all 4 on these lists. Hurray for the ives ! I hope to see a Rubbra symphony coming up on these lists 🙏
Wow! I haven't heard anyone talk about Hovhaness. I have a few of his works on Delos including the Mysterious Mountain symphony. All pleasant enough!
no mention about Prokofiev? I was shocked the first time I listened to his Second, right after the First. I had to double check I was listening to the same composer 😅
Thanks, David. This is a great series - a chance to learn about some music that is new to me. I have been making my own list before watching each of your videos. I was astonished to find that only two of my ten made your list - Sibelius and Mahler. Two "Seconds" that I think deserve consideration are Walton and Piston. I think Walton's 2nd is far superior to his much more popular 1st. It has that quality of uniqueness of style that instantly identifies the composer. Give it a try. Piston's Second has always been one of my favorites. The first movement especially really speaks to me, and reminds me of the emotional power of some of Tchaikovsky's symphonies.
I know Walton's 2nd very well.
I think Walton 2 suffers from a lack of good recordings. I didn't like it based on recordings I had heard, but then heard Previn conduct it in Cleveland and I was converted.
@@steveclaflin594 I don't know what you've heard, but there are several fine versions of this symphony, beginning with Szell's, and continuing with Previn, Mackerras, Litton, Karabits, etc, etc.
@@DavesClassicalGuide I'll look into those. I guess I spoke from somewhat incomplete knowledge. Way back in my youth I bought a recording of 2 because I had discovered 1 and loved it. I was disappointed, but bought a different one a few years later, also disappointing. And, sad to say, I kind of gave up on it at that point. When I heard it live, I actually thought I was buying a ticket to #1. Got to the hall and thought "Oh crap", but was then blown away by the performance.
I'll look into those you suggested. Some are probably available on TH-cam at this point.
Hi Dave, I'm concerned that the Haydn symphony crusade has fallen by the wayside with all these Dave's Faves and Symphonies by Numbers. I appreciate it's hard work and that Haydn symphony cycles are a bit of a graveyard for good intentions but perhaps you might move it along by jumping ahead from (say) 42 to 62 and 82 so we can get an idea of his progression without going one step at a time.
It's still going, with something new every week or two. And so it will continue, for as long as it takes to finish. If it has slowed down a bit it's only because I have to deal with copyright claims just about every time now, and it's very annoying.
Oh how I enjoyed this video! So many interesting choices, and at least 2 for which I am unfamiliar and looking forward to exploring. I appreciate how the bookends here are undoubtedly the two most popular second symphonies in the repertoire. HOWEVER (and I say that word in my best Hurwitz accent lol) the Brahms 2 was a shocking omission for me... because it's just so.... GREAT. I don't know another word for it, but I know there've been enough comments mentioning the omission, but I just would say Brahms is definitely not a primarily chamber composer to me. He is an everything but opera composer and he excelled in everything he touched. At least that's my view.
I was so pleased to the mention of Schmidt's second symphony who I think is underrated. I need to explore Weill's and Englund's symphonies. Can't wait! And.... Can't wait for your No. 3s list!
I often wonder just how great Brahms really was--how much of the accolades stem from sheer inertia. I mean, of course he was a great symphonist, and No. 2 is a lovely work, but I don't think we need to say that everything is equally great, and leaving something off of a list doesn't mean it's bad--just that I (at least) had other priorities and it's not a bad thing to let someone else have his spot now and then.
@@DavesClassicalGuide I agree. I PREFER hearing honest opinions that don't simply regurgitate common praise. But in this case, I'd say the Brahms 2nd Symphony is truly great. In addition to his symphonies, I consider Brahms the greatest concerto composer after Mozart and Beethoven. After watching hundreds of your videos and reading your reviews over the years, it just seems that Brahms isn't your essential flavor, but that you appreciate him. I really enjoy the bravery. A lot of people in your chair would never be willing to publicly criticize a work so well esteemed - case in point - your comments about the Sibelius 2 finale, which I don't fully agree with, but I enjoy hearing you be so bold! :)
@@davidsolomon7101 But I haven't criticized the work at all. I just left it off a list, and suggested that other works may have equal merit. The inferences being drawn from that are ridiculous, and say far more about those making them than they do about me. It is true that I admire Brahms more than I love him, but that has nothing to do with it. Those lists are full of works that I don't love at all. Just as many people have said I should have included Borodin's 2nd, which I certainly would have done ahead of the Brahms, not because it's "better" or "greater," but because it's a one-off masterpiece, whereas I've already included Brahms in the previous list.
Paul Creston's second symphony...now that's a symphony that ought to be heard more often. It feels weirdly modeled on Handel's Belshazzar overture with its forward motivic theme that then goes into reverse.
Speaking of Handel inspirations, Uuno Klami and his huge Handel homage is a major and fun piece. Maybe a video about Handel as inspiration throughout the decades? Bach's influence seems to go without saying, but Handel's could use some reassesment.
The Stenhammer 2nd is an exceptional work, that makes a powerful symphonic argument. Utterly persuasive
Yes, Stenhammar should be on the list.
What fun! Mahler #2 is my favorite symphony (I have more recordings of this work than any other), and Hanson #2 is my guilty pleasure and favorite symphony to put in a list. Two years ago, during the Pandemic Vow of Solitude, a few friends and I had a game where we made list of our favorite symphonies with numbers 1 to 9, with the stipulation that you could not list a composer twice. It isn´t an easy task. Here was my list:
1. Copland (mysteriously missing from Dave´s list)
2. Hanson
3. Saint-Saens
4. Bruckner
5. Shostakovich
6. Tchaikovsky
7. Sibeilus
8. Mahler
9. Beethoven
Copland is not missing.
Reading the comments, I get the sense that there's some confusion about your criteria, though I thought you were pretty clear. Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but you've been emphasizing symphonies that are the first expression of a composer's unique qualities, and are also great pieces of music. So your list isn't about your favorite's, or simply what you consider great 2nd symphonies. Hence the absence of Brahms's 2nd, for example, etc.
I think your point about the golden age of symphonic music really makes sense.
Anyway, this has been a really fun and enlightening series. We're grateful for all of the time and work you put into these videos that we get to enjoy daily for free - really a labor of love. Thanks!
Thank you for understanding! I think some people get annoyed that their favorites get left out--that's all it is.
There are at least two brazilian composers who have made lovely second symphonies and who I think should be included in this discussion, Carmargo Guarnieri ("Uirapuru") and Guerra-Peixe ("Brasília").
Not sure if this would count as a symphony, but Villa lobos’ Bachianas Brasileiras no. 2 is also worth a mention. As a Brazilian, the “trenzinho do caipira” tune in the fourth movement and the trombone solo in the third movement are one of the most nostalgic melodies I’ve heard.
On your recommendation I’ve just tried as much as I could tolerate of Bax 2. I’m generally a forgiving sort of person but really...
Oh well, you can lead a horse to water...
Terrific list, as is customary, including a couple I haven't yet heard (but not for long). This series, like all of yours, provides a treasure trove for classical fans of all ilks. Well done.
I would add Stenhammar's 2nd.
Yes, Stenhammar should be on the list.
An underrated symphony in my opinion, is Artur Kapp's 2nd. Maybe it will become very popular in 100 years time, it's a triumph!
Hurrah for the mention of VW's London symphony - my favorite from him, especially the slow movement. Another possible inclusion, at least for me, is Penderecki's 2nd, a wonderful work.
I see that many suggest Stenhammars second symphony. I second that.
Probably can't displace any of these selections, but the rondo of Haydn 2 is my personal happy place.
Looking forward to your picks here that I don't know. Especially the Weill. I would add these to your fine list: Schuman's 2nd, Brahms 2nd, and last and certainly not least, Thompson's 2nd. I'm delighted you mentioned Ive's 2nd. The end of the symphony is really a parade. One of the most jubilant things in music.
Just heard Edo de Waart conduct the Weill. Absolutely first rate! The last movement is great! Superb sound and orchestra razor sharp! Weill didn't seem very interested in percussion. ? Thanx David!
Listen to the Beaumont recording on Chandos, with the percussion parts restored. He added them later at Bruno Walter's suggestion, actually, but they are original and very effective.
About the Stenhammar Symphony #2 ? I love that work!!
I'm sure it loves you too.
I think it deserves to be on the list.
Did you leave out the Stenhammar intentionally
@@crunchbunch77 Yes. Simply not enough room for it, much as I love it.
I would add 16 critical editons of Bruckner 2.
Done!
Bruckner’s #2. Not just because it’s still my favorite Bruckner Symphony. I know it’s not one of his finest. It just touches my heart. I think it’s much more deserving a mention than, say, Kurt Wieill, or Bax or Copland, etc.
Oh well, I don't.
Stenhammar, Atterberg and Peterson-Berger composed great 2nd symphonies.
Interesting list! I think Nielsen’s, Dutilleux’s, Brahms’ , and Tchaikovsky’s should have been included over several of the ones you included, such as Hanson and Hovhaness though I really like theirs also.
Well, I don't, and I like those too!
I must say, sticking with the incomparable first guy of the previous list: Harold in Italy, Berlioz’ second symphony. I know, I know: the symphony is so weird, and the viola solo just propels it out of the purely symphonic, but gosh, does this symphony stand on its own!
I have a proposal to save you some work - just declare that Mahler's symphonies 1-10 are the best for each number, and maybe 1-11 if you count Das Lied !
But I don't believe that they are the best for each number.
For its variety of color and texture-at least in the first two of three movements-I’d add the Second symphony of Lepo Sumera.
Nice choice!
I'm listening to this now and checked back to see if anyone had mentioned it on this thread. I enjoy this symphony, and would suggest it is worthy of consideration. I keep meaning to listen to his other symphonies.
I really like Rachmaninoff No.2 because of the incredibly beautiful melodies. May be I am not too technical but I like music that brings out the emotion, music that touches my soul. It is just a personal choice. By the way, my favorite Rachmaninoff No.2 is Ormandy/Philadelphia, and may be Svetlanov
Fair enough!
Kalinnikov 2, and it has the greatest ending a romantic symphony ever had.
Sure, anything you say.
I do not quite understand your criterion in this talk. Do your choices have to be completely unique or is the greatness of the work more important? Surely Brahms and Schumann’s second symphonies are greater works than all on your list except Mahler’s Symphony No. 2 and possibly Sibelius.
Surely they aren't. That is just lazy acceptance of received opinion.
Can't wait for No. 3! Way too many good ones to mention but you're going to have your work cut out for you I imagine.
I just love Mahler 2. To me, it represents not only the height of Mahler’s symphonic art, but the whole of western symphonic art.
I just wish rach 2 was on the list.
One man who infamously did not like the Sibelius 2nd-Virgil Thomson.
If I’m not mistaken, Thomson didn’t care for Sibelius in general.
Ironic that Bernstein's and Hovhaness's be listed next to each other, as Bernstein disliked Hovhaness's music so much.
Well, this is a list of person, who has a good taste and large knowledge of musical literature. Ok, but millions, MILLIONS people dont know who is Hovhaness, Casella and even Elgar. But they know and love Rachmaninov 2nd symphony, they pay for it, they hold 3rd movement in playlists between k-pop and Ed Sheeran. I mean Its ok that Dave didnt include Rach piece in this scroll, but its really strange for me... and for millions people.
You speak for no one other than yourself, and you exaggerate the popularity of Rachmaninoff 2.
1. Rach 2 is not as popular as you claim.
2. This is mostly a channel for CM enthusiasts who've all heard Rach 2. A video listing mostly unpopular Symphony 2s worth hearing is arguably more valuable to them than a list of warhorses.
@@murraylow4523 "Warhorses" isn't an insult. I mean that CM enthusiasts have heard the warhorses before and would benefit more from a list including mostly nonwarhorses. Some enthusiasts tire of hearing different recordings of the same works over and over again.
Hurwitz might like these symphonies as much or more than Rach 2 and Brahms 2. He's listened to tons of symphonies, and so can evaluate what he likes and doesn't like better than I can.
The forum Talk Classical is doing top ten lists of symphonies by number right now, and if you'll go there, you'd find different orderings of the warhorses and a few less popular symphonies that the posters have all heard (like Suk's Asrael Symphony and Borodin Symphony no. 2).
"It's so good that it's held between two pieces of trash."