Cap isn’t on the same power level as Ultron or Loki. Hawkeye and Widow pointing this out isn’t a flaw, nor does it diminish his power. If anything, these moments just show how well characterized Cap is. He doesn’t give up in the face of adversity. He’ll fight the good fight regardless of how outmatched he is. In his own words, he can do this all day.
Is Iron Man on the same level, though? Civil War shows how Cap can hold his own against Tony even after Bucky is out of the fight. Tony had to rely on Friday to analyse Cap's fight patterns or else he'd be beaten into a metal mush. Loki has been nerfed, so even you and I can probably take him on. My point is that power levels in Marvel movies are somewhat irregular, and there are better ways to show Cap's unyielding resolve. Hell, they themselves do it right in Endgame when Cap, broken shield and all, stands against Thanos and his army by himself.
@@Yadadameanfool No you moron he's scaled accordingly, he beat spiderman, iron man with help from bucky though, carried a big helicopter with one arm, lifted thor hammer, throw a bike to a jeep, and many other peak human feats. I don't get this nonsense about Steve being nerfed, capt isn't some op dude he's a super soilder above street tier, his strength is appropriately scaled.
To be honest man, I loved that Thor didn't move and Tony was only mildly moved back when Steve threw his shield. It puts it into perspective their level compared to a super soldier. But at the same time, it's so Cap to throw that shield at them regardless and make the statement.
What we lost since WW2? Trust in the government. Trust in other people. Moral certainty. Working together for positive change. That sort of stuff. I thought it was a good line.
OK Joss doesn't hate cap...the dude who made this video does..He also has no concept of difference of Caps power set as apposed to a guy who has a suit a God or a rage monster. Clueless
Dude he is a supersoldier that hulk is based out of he should be faster have more mental fortitude and strength than any human on earth heck all alien soldiers are leagues beneath him...
While I do think Joss Whedon hates Captain America, it doesn’t show in this movie. Cap is still very pivotal, and let’s not forget, there’s a massive deleted scene prior to the gym scene that shows him going about his day in the modern world (including the blonde-haired woman he saved later meeting and trying to flirt with him). It’s Age of Ultron where Whedon’s distaste for Cap (and all of his other worst qualities) really becomes apparent.
i hate this recent revisionism of Joss Whedon with this nonsense arguments just to try to shit on him, he literally started the real success of the mcu with this movie that is freakin' awesome too, this movie was a near impossible task because it was a new type of project but he succeeded so much, even beyond the expectations and everyone loved it when it came out, the fact that he made mediocre/bad stuff after or because he's probably an asshole as a person doesn't make his good stuff bad, and not just this movie, he made like 3 cult tv series too, just leave him alone.
Oh stop pushing that lie that the avengers was a near impossible task. The avengers is no different than Any large cast film. A bad guy got himself a magic rock to portal to bring an army to take over the world. A group of individuals Come together to stop him. Take away the novelty and the hype the film ages terribly.
@@ironbaysqiureg4827 im sorry thats a dumb simplification, its like a comic book crossover that ends a production phase but done at the cinema, that put together a vastly different range of characters and they worked, before this movie every character except hawkeye and Black widow got a solo movie, iron man got 2 movies, yeah it was a new type of project never done before and its not aged at all
Cap is a man so out of touch with the current world, sometimes he seems dum for not getting it, and worse he seems like a mere mortal compared to his colleagues and enemy he is facing. Thats not josh hating cap, thats the reality for cap. But cap being cap he doesn’t pack up his shield and just have an early retirement . He goes in to give it the best his got even though sometimes its futile. But thats cap. He can do that all day, and sometimes it might take him all day😅.
01:46 I think he's saying, if im not wrong, that America had lost it's values. Compare the 50s to now. Crime's through the roof, you need two parents working to support a small family, the housing market is insane, etc... Someone told me that they voted for trump because they saw "making american great again" as being able to support a big family on one income AND being able to buy a house. 03:02 He IS a small fish in a large pond. He cant throw down with Loki, that would make Loki look weak af. Loki only surrendered when he got knocked down from Iron man then Iron man pulled EVERY WEAPON he had and targeted Loki. Captain America doesnt fight because he'll win. He'll fight because he can, because it's right and because he'll never stop. His "hero power" isnt the super soldier steroids, it's his heart and determination. Loki was turning them against each other using the sceptre. This is shown and stated (that Loki's plan is to release the hulk) Captain America stopped the grenade from taking out the propeller! He saved the ship with that! He couldnt understand starks technical instructions which is totally reasonable. 07:45 That scene was perfect. It showed the police not knowing what was going on, captain taking charge of the situation, them asking what authority do you have? then he takes down multiple aliens with ease demonstrating he's highly capable, then the policeman immediately follows the orders. it's funny and it shows his skill. 09:55 The bomb was meant to be dropped down into the crowd, instead it just blew up on the top floor; saving the people's lives
Your points are valid, I understand Cap is a massive fan favorite and people's responses are rather defensive. Even though all the things you pointed out don't bother me when I watch this movie, it is rather weird how weak Cap looks in some of these scenes. Struggling against namless goons is definitely something they fixed about him as the MCU progressed. Already in Winter Soldier he takes out a dozen men in an elevator
What your ignoring is thatvhe was fighting aliens...not humans humans he handles just fine especially hand to hand, but with modern guns which was the fight on the helicarrier....ehhhh its to be expected
The only reason he struggled there is because he was forced to stay in one exposed spot that wasn’t close to the enemies while they had ranged weapons and he did not. While on a crashing helicarrier. He was at just about every disadvantage imaginable in that one situation
I watched this randomly about 2 weeks ago, thought he was making no fucking sense, and almost immediately thought mauler would hate this. I’m not surprised they covered it that fast, and can’t wait to see them tear it apart when he uploads the Efap 200-2.
@@darthdragonborn1552 Part 2 was probably the best part in retrospect because it had gartic phone, this video, RLM and adams story debate but I only got to watch 1 and 2 live and had to sleep before the part 3 link came out
Damn, I’ve never thought of it from this angle but hearing your pitch really makes me imagine exactly what you’re talking about, and it would be a lot more satisfying and inspirational to have his abilities highlighted more than they were. Cap really was pretty irrelevant the whole movie and I didn’t notice it until you mentioned it. It takes a lot of courage to think critically, and I appreciate your views on these issues. 💙🙏
I really can see how Cap was somehow diminish in this film, but at the same time in the next films I think he was better worked, like in the Winter Soldier, Civil War and Infinity War... But, these movies was not Josh Wheadon directing, so... Anyway, the sad part is that we probably never will see a good representation of the character anymore, because Disney/Marvel hates all that makes Cap's the leader and hero which we all like, and just use now the "mantle" to push any agenda they want...
When cap says we lost I think he means we lost because there is still war, from what I remember people thought that world war 2 would be the war to end all wars and after it there would be no war so him seeing that there is more war means that we lost TLDR: he thinks all the fighting was in vein bc even after WW2 war still happened
"I wake up and they say we won. They didn't say what we lost." He says this line because for Cap, he didn't get any time to celebrate winning the war or mourning the losses of loved ones. He wakes up and all of it is over. Including the mourning.
You didn’t even say anything about how Cap’s shield deflected Thor’s hammer. Also Cap in his MCU captain America movies and avengers movies really do him a lot more Justice than the 90s Captain America movie. Try criticizing that sorry film.
This is the WORST bait I've ever seen. You showed your hand when you criticized Cap's petty squabbling, when we find out ten seconds later that the mind stone in the staff was making everyone an @$$hole. Better luck next time.
I think the rubber helmet really is what bugs me. He looks okay in the goofy costume when the helmet is removed. With the helmet it just looks like a bad CW Flash costume
The contemporary agent cannot frame Hawking in terms of past outliers. Yet Cap is the dumb, old guy. A modern man who can't equate Ed Teller or Niels Bohr is an ignoramus. Cap has presence, indomitable will, coolness under fire, sense of purpose and those are all non-physical traits. He's like Olympic levels of athletic. It's a total dump on a great comic hero.
This is just like how Joss doesn’t know wtf to do with Batman in his version of Justice League. As many problems as Zack Snyder has as a filmmaker, it’s clear that he thought through things like “well shit, Batman needs to have something to do and also look badass even if he’s not as physically powerful as the rest of the League”
To me what makes cap special and I think they went for in this movie is that he gets knocked down and always gets back up. No one took more hits than him in this movie, but he kept on fighting. And in the argument scene though it was uncharacteristic of him I think it was because of Loki's sceptre that they all argued, but still cap's will should be strong enough to be immune to it
To be honest, the cop scene make sense. You don't just handover authority even though they probably more qualified then you. Like if you are a manager of a restaurant, and Elon Musk just show up and gives orders. Will you give him the authority to do so?
Whedon as a leftist probably has some bias against the kind of US patriotism for which Cap is a poster boy. But to be fair, on the power scale Cap is a mid level hero at best so he wasn't treated THAT badly, some of it could be chalked up to a realism of sorts. Also, he probably thrown his shield at less than full force at Thor and Ironman, that would make sense. You had valid points there nonetheless, so, good video.
@@shardsoftime0952 Like, no, being raised to be a leftie doesn't necessarily MAKE him a leftie, what makes him a leftie is, like, damm, what he says and does. He's totally open about his political affiliation, he even made dedicated political videos FFS.
lot of people here really jumping to the defense of the "What we lost" line and their defense is something along the lines of "I always thught it meant..." and that's cool for you and all but everyone is taking a different interpretation using vastly different events and none of them answer the question - because you can't. Because the line is bad. No matter how hard you shill for it, no matter how many hopium copium explanations you give for it, *it is too vague* AND it's also out of character. - What specifically, from Cap's perspective, is this line referring to? Because it seems less like a Cap line and more like a Whedon line. Cap never behaves in such a way that shows he believes something majorly wrong has happened - other iterations of this character (including in the MCU) show exactly what happens when Cap believes something is fundamentally broken. This is what happens when the agenda of the writer takes control of the agency of the characters. _"Oh well, This is why movies feel the need to spoonfeed everything nowadays"_ No. Dialogue is an art. The art of good dialogue is to give insights into a character's inner thoughts. Arguably, the best dialogue that can convey everything and more is stepped in allegory mixed with character actions to confirm & suppliment or (intenioanally) contradict what a character is saying. This dialogue is undercooked. If you were to write a High School-level essay with a random line like this it would be struck through with a demand for clarification. You can be less vague without spoonfeeding information.
Oh man this movie so many problems people let slide because it was the "first" crossover movie No wonder general audiences like this film up quips and likable personalities mix everyone not notice the bad writing
@@Mj0Skyver "Sweeping statements" The biggest defense for this film is it was the "first" crossover film so it's okay to have problems. And literal efap look over bad movies like civil war And the homecoming trilogy with Iron lad because they liked the characters. And of course being an efap fanboy you will say objective quality but ignore it when it comes to the films you like. 😉 How's that civil war a "good" movie take Ignoring all the continuity that contradicts The bad movie.
Im not into comics. I new nothing about these characters before the movies. I will admit I had pity on Captain America when watching this movie. I watched him constantly struggle and even want to get physical from getting bullied by Tony Stark. I noticed all the other characters kicking ass. I did not even think he should of been there.
The line about "They didn't say what we lost" was talking about the soul of America. I always took it as the bombs dropped on Japan. That's a guess, it could mean over all the crap like Paper Clip and some of the backroom deals that caused a bit of morality to bleed out of the America he knew.
5:21 he is there because those “Grunts” barely can breathe, because they are maybe 10.000 feet high in the sky so the normal people barely can breathe and the room is damaged, so the best one who can help to restore the power is Cap. Yeah he struggles to some armed man, because the bullet wounds can kill him, in Winter Soldier he almost died, because he got 3 shot on his body at the end of the movie.
Jesus fucking wept, not only do you have a fundamental misunderstanding of Captain America's character within this film series, but also of the actual events within the film itself. How can you possibly have watched it '800 times' without absorbing any of the actual events that take place?
I do agree that the movies go out of their way to prop up Iron Man in any situation where he and Cap are on screen together and generally in his own movies they seem to have him garner more respect from everyone else. I also wish they made him reflect being a super soldier more than in just moments where he wasn’t completely obliterated by Thor’s hit in Avengers, holding back Thanos for a time, holding back the helicopter too, etc. I hadn’t thought about how he did struggle against the nameless people that much, even trained soldiers shouldn’t be too much of an issue for Cap considering his strength, experience, reflexes, etc. but much like the other comments point out there were a few moments that I don’t think could be faulted (the argument where everyone’s being influenced by the mind stone, the what we lost comment, etc.) but I’m surprised that you didn’t talk about his final arc as a character in the MCU since I think that shows the most blatant disrespect of his character along with the miscommunication in Civil War. While I do think he would always choose Bucky over just about anyone else, he values honesty and integrity so much I can’t see him hiding something as major as mind controlled Bucky killing Tony’s parents. Not only that but he would try to reassure Tony saying he understands if he’s angry but to understand that he was under insane Hydra mind control so he was really only a puppet. Interesting food for thought tho
This is satire, right? There's no way you're serious about this idea. With all the contradictions, cherry picking, and blatantly taking scenes out of context, it has to be a joke.
Probably, but it's a pretty vague line to include especially since they don't really show Cap espousing his world views. What did he mean exactly? We don't know because he doesn't opine about the state of the country in any other scene that I can remember.
I think It means that America, the country he fought for, ended the WW2 by essentially killing civilian lives. That didn't feel like a victory for him, it stands against his beliefs.
But again why does that matter. He fought in a war he believed in why would he not like what it cost to win? Captain America is Anti American in the mcu
The thing about Tony not being super-fond of Cap at the start is that he was jealous of how much his father "wouldn't shut up about" Cap, when he was growing up. Howard seemed to heap on Cap the praise Tony desperately wanted.
Aaaannnnndddd world War 2 Wasn't supposed to make the world a better place. Hell is one reason of going into The war is to stop a "bully". Turn world war two really screwed us over and a long news for different reasons it's not something i doubt in america would know about even a general Population doesn't know the consequences of world war two
Tony saying, "call it Cap" wasn't an order. He was giving Cap some encouragement, and letting him know that as a team, they will follow his lead. That's all that was.
I disagree with the “call it” scene complaint. I felt like in that moment iron man wasn’t saying that for the sake of giving an order he was demonstrating that he knows he not the leader of this.
True but point is that status wasn’t evinced in the film thitherto. Sometimes it seemed like his history earned him authority with Coulson and Fury, but Tony was apathetic and the public didn’t seem to know who he was largely.
I mess with guys videos but I’m ngl he was really just tapping in this one. The fact that every comment is essentially saying he was overthinking everything just further proves that. Was Cap perfect in this film? No, but it was serviceable and wasn’t nearly as bad as the TH-camr is making it. The fact that he was the only one to call Hulk, Hilk just shows he’s a good leader because he respect all of them as a leader and knows them.
Okay you claim to have seen this movie like 800 times, yet you never realized Cap's "what we lost" line is referring to the modern world being more morally ambiguous than the one he remembers? Or that everyone in the room when Cap and Tony are arguing is being manipulated by the Mind Stone? The odd camera angles during that scene are practically screaming this.
He just didn’t hear the “what” part. I didn’t understand it either. I heard “the world doesn’t understand we lost” not “what we lost” I only now hear it after reading your comment.
@@Birdlegs14 I heard it all 6 times I watched the movie. My 70 year old mom with horrible hearing just watched it last year, heard it and understood its meaning. I can understand not hearing it the first 100 times. But the other 700 is on him lol
1:32 “I went under, the world was at war. I wake up, and they say that we won - they didn’t say WHAT we lost” The idea is that the sacrifices made to win, seem insignificant to most people. It plays into the theme of sacrifice later in the movie (His argument with Tony, then Tony “making the sacrifice play” later in the movie.) Honestly it’s one of my favorite lines of his in the movie
Yeah it was pretty easy to hear that I don’t know how he didn’t notice that. It’s even easy to search up the script it’s literally word for word what you said he could’ve done that too 😭😭
I always thought about Hiroshima, Normandy, Vietnam and the reputation of USA From biggest growing world leader to most hated by world (but for some reason everybody wants to live in he usa🤣🤣🤣🤣)
A lot of Cap's disdain for Iron Man and their argument was orchestrated by Loki using the mind stone to influence all of the Avengers to go at one another. That's why Cap and the rest of the Avengers did and said things that were uncharacteristic of them at that time.
I love all these MCU fanboys being so offended by this video. You guys are what’s wrong with the movie industry. A bunch of sheep buying tickets to these half assed “films”
Even if that's true, and literally none of that bickering would have occurred without some outside manipulation, it still doesn't work as an explanation unless you actually take the time to explain that at some point. The only visual or dialogue indication we get is that Banner in particular might be influenced somehow. And even then, it's kind of a weak plot point, given that Loki wasn't actually in possession of either the scepter or the stone inside it at the time. With the exception of this moment, maybe, we've seen zero indication at any point in the franchise that an Infinity Stone can be remotely controlled. So, no criticism of you meant for bringing it up or anything, but that explanation just doesn't work from a writing perspective. Maybe a rationale was envisioned for everybody acting petty and argumentative, but if all we see is the action, that's really all we can judge.
@@mikeroylance289 what everyone else said. They enter the scene upside down with the focus being the scepter as it glows, then the camera flips upright to then show the avengers arguing. I suggest revisiting the film.
Umm...Joss is a tool, but he was VERY good to Captain America 🇺🇸 in AVENGERS 1. Cap is is the most resoundingly good character in the whole movie and in it is established Why he is also WORTHY of the power of Thor for which we get as one of tge few good payoffs in Endgame. I think you are just a bit misguided as to the intent of the scenes you're examining. Please know, Cap really can do this all day.
OK? Argue your points. Explain how his inteperatations of those scenes are wrong. Instead of just saying they are. Is he worthy because he picks a fight with Tony because his feelings got hurt? Or because he lost every single fight and needed help constantly?
The conmment about Cap saying, "Put on the suit, let's go a few rounds" is totally missing the mark. The Infinity Stone within Lokis weapon is causing dissent amongst those close by. It's a spell of possibly another effect, but clearly the ringing tone indicates something is attempting to instigate all those assembled. Remember what happens soon after? Infighting, triggered by setting off the Hulk...all perpetrated by Loki. Cap is being controlled or manipulated into exhibiting hostility unbefitting his morals.
I feel like Tony and Cap not being friends at the start made sense, not from caps side, I’d expect he’d have some respect for the son of Howard, but from Tony’s side, it was stated that Howard always talked about cap, which would likely fuel Tony’s whole daddy issues towards cap.
It makes sense for Cap to hate Tony too. From the outside looking in, Tony seems like a reckless ahole who likes blowing things up. Cap doesn't know that he's actually a standup guy who is willing to make sacrifices in order to save others.
The "didn't tell me what we lost" line is not that odd when you take into account Steve is entering a new world eager to trade freedoms for security. This is really highlighted in winter soldier with his views on the gun ships.
So...you just ignore all the times he's cool in the movie? His shield blocking mjolnir, for example? Or his awesome response to Black Widow's "gods" line? Also...those times, like that one, that someone tries to talk Cap out of going into a fight, are there to make him look good! It shows that even though he's not a match for someone like Thor or the Hulk, he just goes in anyway. That is the essence of Captain America.
Yea totally that God line of his is interesting because whedon is an atheist and he still wrote that response so I wouldn't say he has no respect for captain america he easilly could have had cap say something like I got to try ma'am
@@Vincent_Luciano_Simpson my point is he showed the character respect when he put that line there since it went against his personal beliefs. He could have put another response instead but he used one that added a layer to the character even if he felt uncomfortable with it. On the commentary he said that people asked if he's an atheist why did he write that line he just said he is one but cap isn't. I thought that was a very fair mindset.
@@jacobwest7 that's awesome to hear. It was a great line that fit the character. Some of the best writers can write characters that have completely different views from them without disrespecting them or their views.
personally cap's line of "there's only one god ma'am and im pretty sure he doesn't dress like that" felt like the writer's talking down to the audience because in cannon Thor is a god by earth standards, so it feels like he's saying something that's blatently wrong in lore, because "hey guys look religion's dumb"
1:44 They lost people. Certain freedoms. Certain lifstyles. Certain ideologies. Could be anything. It's not that hard to work out. 4:00 No. Stark has zero respect for cap. This is explained in further movies. Stark's distain for Cap in Avengers is because his father wouldn't ever shut up about him. His father idolized Cap, whilst treating his own son like dirt. It's daddy-issues and jealousy. That's why
what we “lost” according to Cap is that we sacrificed our freedoms for security as revealed in Winter soldier. a lot of real world implications right there 🤯
I feel like his power level was at a pretty good point, Captain America is superhuman, but Loki is well beyond that. We see Loki brush off bullets like they are nothing, in spite of that he manages to put up a pretty good fight.
-he was being mind controlled while the "few rounds" part. -you want to make the statement that in the meet up part, he is treated as weak, but he literally blocks a hit from the magic weapon of a god, being one of the most iconic shots of the movie and of course you cut that part. -when he loses you say "he is presented as weak" when he beats a bunch of super aliens you say he is "showing off" yeah. -saying that he is somehow treated like less of an authority because stark told him that basically they are waiting for orders is just ridiculous, totally missing the point of tony going from disrespecting him to respecting his orders. Honestly maybe 30% of the points given in this video are valid maybe(? but yeah most of it just comes off as you cherrypicking stuff after you alredy decided that cap is treated bad in this movie and you just wanna reinforce that thought, while in reality you are forcing that narrative too much
Imagine saying Captain America is weak and the scene you choose to showcase this is Loki manipulating Thor to beat Iron Man with Mjolnir and Cap freediving out of a moving plane and blocking Thor's hammer, immediately mediating the fight and establishing himself as leader.
Some things you misunderstood, like many in the comments pointed out, like the “we lost” line and the fact that the stone was making the team more hostile. Though I do agree that this film didn’t fully do him justice, they could have displayed his strength and leadership skills far better. Glad that later films did him more justice in that regard, that helicopter scene in Winter Solider is great or that scene in Endgame where he’s about to face Thanos and his army alone, a nice nod to Infinity Gauntlet.
@@ironbaysqiureg4827 Oh great, a brain dead sludge creature came to defend moronic takes. Detractors bias having a bias against Whedon. See, I can do that level of vapid prattling too. ❤
Between this and your Hulk video, I feel your readings of these characters are one note. Especially Cap. His arc in this movie is about how he feels useless and purposeless in the present. He dislikes Iron Man at first because of his lack of respect and how, on some level, he confirms Cap's insecurities. That's what leads to their argument, along with Loki's magic playing with their heads. The point is that Cap's insecurities are making him act out of character, that he's losing sight of what's important for the sake of nursing his bruised ego. But later, Cap comes to his senses and, in New York, he proves his usefulness by being the courageous leader to rally everyone together and give the orders, be it to the heroes or the cops. And no, Iron Man saying "call it, Captain" is NOT Iron Man giving an order to Cap. It's a moment that shows Iron Man's growth too, because throughout the film he's been taking control of every situation, making everything about him. Here, we're seeing an Iron Man willing to delegate and take orders from someone else. As for Captain America's power level, I guess you have a point, although him standing toe-to-toe with aliens I would argue shows his toughness pretty well. The action could be better choreographed, but it gets the job done.
@@UnifiedEntity Whether you accept it or not, that's pretty much what happened. The whole reason Loki allowed himself to be captured was to use the scepter (Mind Stone) to trigger Banner's transformation into the Hulk, which it eventually did. But the scepter was affecting everyone in the room, making them all act more irrational and aggressive than normal. The weird camera angles during that scene clearly imply this.
I think the thing about losing the war was more about how the modern world is complete shit - how we abandoned everything that made us great we abandoned the American values and culture that he was fighting to protect - which is true, our culture has been going to shit since the 1960s and it really sped up the shit show in the 2010s.
@@TH3DUDE0075 Have to agree on that one. I watched a vid about what an invasion would have probably been like, we might have won, but like you said it would have been a blood bath for both sides, landing troops would be dangerous and cost American lives while the Japanese seemed prepared to fight to the bitter end, even civvies. The reason they surrendered when we dropped the bombs was cause they had barely any defense against that type of weapon, and why bother wasting more lives in more bombings, least with the invasion they'd go down honorably fighting to the end.
Steve knows there are both good consequences and bad consequences after every war. He was told the good consequences but didn’t know all the bad consequences yet.
I'm gonna have to disagree with this take. I think you saw a few things in this and viewed everything else through the lense that it probably was meant to suck. Instead of seeing the awesome moments for what they were. Like for example: -The fact that captain America was fighting loki despite the power difference -blocking Mjlnior -the fact that Captain America did destroy some of the chitari -Captain America was organizing most of the shots despite being beat down over and over again. In summary I don't find your argument strong enough say that Cap looked pathetic in this movie
@@succboah2000 nigga he’s trash in the first movie. I’ve seen every marvel movie to date. Compared to his later feats he’s ass, garbage, trash, sucky, doo doo.
@@xanacary2071 Clearly you didn’t read the previous dudes comment. He says he doesn’t do anything cool despite being a dude who’s in peak human psychic and manages to have one of the greatest feats in the MCU. Broski is expecting Captain America to fight god on day one
I actually like the design of Cap's first modern suit. I thin it works because it' kind of cheesy and impractical looking, we do later on see him use more detailed and practical suits.
Quite possibly some of the worst takes on a film and it's characters ever put into a TH-cam video. Please, for the love of god, don't attempt this again.😂🤦
Iron Man DID NOT order Cap to give the orders... He is literally acknowledging that Cap is the best equipped to make the tactical call, finally showing Cap that he respects him. That being said, I do agree that Avengers 1 severely underutilized him. The Russo brothers fixed it and he quickly became the fan favorite.
I just rewatched this movie, and other than a lack of power creep, Cap wasn’t ruined in this film. He is much more underwhelming in Age of Ultron for me.
6:55 gotta disagree there. As of the start of the movie it's clear Cap has been basically in hiding to adjust to the modern world. I don't think anyone would recognize him yet as being THE captain america back from the dead. Like, if I was a cop stuck in a warzone like that, and some dude looking like an Abe Lincoln cosplayer runs up and starta giving me orders like he thinks he's the actual fucking president, I'm gonna question it.
I think you forgot that Loki's staff was influencing them. Cap's great and all, but he's still a guy and remember, he came from an era where men could settle things in a fist fight. "I can do this all day" scene. You're right about the Stark love, though. Whedon loves Tony Stark. But it's Captain who bonds with Coulsen and the other teammates. He ignores the Hulk to respect Banner and Tony tries to ignite the Hulk while miles in the air.
And I would even say that it adds to character, since he looks more human for being angry at times (even if it's with the stone help) and not 100% calm person
1:30 I disagree with you here. It's clear he's talking about WWII. Steve says "they say we won; they didn't say what we lost" and then you go "Is it WW2? But we won that." Yeah, the Allies won the war. But we also lost things along the way. The American way of life changed post-war. Certain rights that people had pre-war were gone post-war. Hell, look at things people could do pre-9/11 vs. after. It's not up to the MCU to explain real world history that isn't tied into MCU specific lore.
At first it seems like you want Cap to be perfect, flawless, and way more powerful than a human with a super-soldier serum should be, but then you start describing the Cap you want to see from the comics and it becomes clear that all of the "800" times you've seen the movie you were just not paying attention. It honestly just reads like you saw Cap do one thing you didn't like and that made you see the rest of Cap's actions for the entire movie in that negative way.
Cap isn’t on the same power level as Ultron or Loki. Hawkeye and Widow pointing this out isn’t a flaw, nor does it diminish his power. If anything, these moments just show how well characterized Cap is. He doesn’t give up in the face of adversity. He’ll fight the good fight regardless of how outmatched he is. In his own words, he can do this all day.
Is Iron Man on the same level, though? Civil War shows how Cap can hold his own against Tony even after Bucky is out of the fight. Tony had to rely on Friday to analyse Cap's fight patterns or else he'd be beaten into a metal mush. Loki has been nerfed, so even you and I can probably take him on. My point is that power levels in Marvel movies are somewhat irregular, and there are better ways to show Cap's unyielding resolve. Hell, they themselves do it right in Endgame when Cap, broken shield and all, stands against Thanos and his army by himself.
Cap is still way nerfed in these movies, Batflecks scene in BVS makes Batman look stronger and faster than Captain America in the MCU films.
@@olivercrespo2329 Nerfed? You're delusional capt is scale accordingly if not more stronger than his comic counterpart.
@@colindowden2182bullshit and you know it but whatever you say I guess
@@Yadadameanfool No you moron he's scaled accordingly, he beat spiderman, iron man with help from bucky though, carried a big helicopter with one arm, lifted thor hammer, throw a bike to a jeep, and many other peak human feats. I don't get this nonsense about Steve being nerfed, capt isn't some op dude he's a super soilder above street tier, his strength is appropriately scaled.
To be honest man, I loved that Thor didn't move and Tony was only mildly moved back when Steve threw his shield. It puts it into perspective their level compared to a super soldier. But at the same time, it's so Cap to throw that shield at them regardless and make the statement.
Yeah, they did a good job there showing the power levels
@@DavidMartinez-ce3lp 100%. I loved how Thor was able to destroy Iron Man's titanium alloy like it was a coke can in his fingers.
@@DavidMartinez-ce3lp They did a piss poor job. He makes a good point about Cap. He's so underpowered compared to his comic counterpart.
@@hughjass69933 more like over power
@@miminoran8948 LOL in what way? Because he's so underpowered that he's on the same level as Hawkeye and Black Widow.
What we lost since WW2? Trust in the government. Trust in other people. Moral certainty. Working together for positive change. That sort of stuff. I thought it was a good line.
me too it was a very good line
This is one of the most impressive misunderstandings of a film and a character arc I’ve ever seen…
nah
@@braedenalberti Great Comeback 👍😁
@@braedenalberti it is tho
Explain so this guy can understand
@@cosmicspacething3474 Unfortunately, I think an entire essay would receive the same response.
OK Joss doesn't hate cap...the dude who made this video does..He also has no concept of difference of Caps power set as apposed to a guy who has a suit a God or a rage monster. Clueless
He's right about Cap not being able to knock out random human soldiers
Dude he is a supersoldier that hulk is based out of he should be faster have more mental fortitude and strength than any human on earth heck all alien soldiers are leagues beneath him...
3:50 the reason cap and Tony kept arguing was because of the influence of the mind stone when they are in its proximity
was looking for some one saying this its clearly shown in the movie as well
While I do think Joss Whedon hates Captain America, it doesn’t show in this movie. Cap is still very pivotal, and let’s not forget, there’s a massive deleted scene prior to the gym scene that shows him going about his day in the modern world (including the blonde-haired woman he saved later meeting and trying to flirt with him). It’s Age of Ultron where Whedon’s distaste for Cap (and all of his other worst qualities) really becomes apparent.
i hate this recent revisionism of Joss Whedon with this nonsense arguments just to try to shit on him, he literally started the real success of the mcu with this movie that is freakin' awesome too, this movie was a near impossible task because it was a new type of project but he succeeded so much, even beyond the expectations and everyone loved it when it came out, the fact that he made mediocre/bad stuff after or because he's probably an asshole as a person doesn't make his good stuff bad, and not just this movie, he made like 3 cult tv series too, just leave him alone.
Oh stop pushing that lie that the avengers was a near impossible task.
The avengers is no different than Any large cast film. A bad guy got himself a magic rock to portal to bring an army to take over the world. A group of individuals Come together to stop him.
Take away the novelty and the hype the film ages terribly.
@@ironbaysqiureg4827 im sorry thats a dumb simplification, its like a comic book crossover that ends a production phase but done at the cinema, that put together a vastly different range of characters and they worked, before this movie every character except hawkeye and Black widow got a solo movie, iron man got 2 movies, yeah it was a new type of project never done before and its not aged at all
@@ironbaysqiureg4827
Cool reductionist take, darling.
@@Spillow-C
The feller seems to have a hard-on for being a detractor of this film, judging from his few vapid statements here on the comments so far.
@@Mj0Skyver so he must be Snyder bot, got it
This is a troll right?
Cap is a man so out of touch with the current world, sometimes he seems dum for not getting it, and worse he seems like a mere mortal compared to his colleagues and enemy he is facing. Thats not josh hating cap, thats the reality for cap. But cap being cap he doesn’t pack up his shield and just have an early retirement . He goes in to give it the best his got even though sometimes its futile. But thats cap. He can do that all day, and sometimes it might take him all day😅.
01:46 I think he's saying, if im not wrong, that America had lost it's values. Compare the 50s to now. Crime's through the roof, you need two parents working to support a small family, the housing market is insane, etc... Someone told me that they voted for trump because they saw "making american great again" as being able to support a big family on one income AND being able to buy a house.
03:02 He IS a small fish in a large pond. He cant throw down with Loki, that would make Loki look weak af. Loki only surrendered when he got knocked down from Iron man then Iron man pulled EVERY WEAPON he had and targeted Loki.
Captain America doesnt fight because he'll win. He'll fight because he can, because it's right and because he'll never stop. His "hero power" isnt the super soldier steroids, it's his heart and determination.
Loki was turning them against each other using the sceptre. This is shown and stated (that Loki's plan is to release the hulk)
Captain America stopped the grenade from taking out the propeller! He saved the ship with that! He couldnt understand starks technical instructions which is totally reasonable.
07:45 That scene was perfect. It showed the police not knowing what was going on, captain taking charge of the situation, them asking what authority do you have? then he takes down multiple aliens with ease demonstrating he's highly capable, then the policeman immediately follows the orders. it's funny and it shows his skill.
09:55 The bomb was meant to be dropped down into the crowd, instead it just blew up on the top floor; saving the people's lives
That was a pretty clear reference "We won the war, but we lost" - Hes talking about the dead soldiers, the father, the son, the brothers of America!
Your points are valid, I understand Cap is a massive fan favorite and people's responses are rather defensive. Even though all the things you pointed out don't bother me when I watch this movie, it is rather weird how weak Cap looks in some of these scenes. Struggling against namless goons is definitely something they fixed about him as the MCU progressed. Already in Winter Soldier he takes out a dozen men in an elevator
Yeah and they had some high tech magnetic hand cuffs and tasers.
What your ignoring is thatvhe was fighting aliens...not humans humans he handles just fine especially hand to hand, but with modern guns which was the fight on the helicarrier....ehhhh its to be expected
The only reason he struggled there is because he was forced to stay in one exposed spot that wasn’t close to the enemies while they had ranged weapons and he did not. While on a crashing helicarrier. He was at just about every disadvantage imaginable in that one situation
Congrats on being part of the skilled few whom has trolled EFAP successfully
I watched this randomly about 2 weeks ago, thought he was making no fucking sense, and almost immediately thought mauler would hate this. I’m not surprised they covered it that fast, and can’t wait to see them tear it apart when he uploads the Efap 200-2.
@@darthdragonborn1552 Part 2 was probably the best part in retrospect because it had gartic phone, this video, RLM and adams story debate but I only got to watch 1 and 2 live and had to sleep before the part 3 link came out
Damn, I’ve never thought of it from this angle but hearing your pitch really makes me imagine exactly what you’re talking about, and it would be a lot more satisfying and inspirational to have his abilities highlighted more than they were. Cap really was pretty irrelevant the whole movie and I didn’t notice it until you mentioned it.
It takes a lot of courage to think critically, and I appreciate your views on these issues. 💙🙏
I really can see how Cap was somehow diminish in this film, but at the same time in the next films I think he was better worked, like in the Winter Soldier, Civil War and Infinity War...
But, these movies was not Josh Wheadon directing, so...
Anyway, the sad part is that we probably never will see a good representation of the character anymore, because Disney/Marvel hates all that makes Cap's the leader and hero which we all like, and just use now the "mantle" to push any agenda they want...
1:44 he said „they didn’t say what we lost“
When cap says we lost I think he means we lost because there is still war, from what I remember people thought that world war 2 would be the war to end all wars and after it there would be no war so him seeing that there is more war means that we lost
TLDR: he thinks all the fighting was in vein bc even after WW2 war still happened
No it’s cuz the nukes they lost their morality
No one ever thought about this till you made this video you have to have three eyes 😂😂😂
Ok
"I wake up and they say we won. They didn't say what we lost." He says this line because for Cap, he didn't get any time to celebrate winning the war or mourning the losses of loved ones. He wakes up and all of it is over. Including the mourning.
You didn’t even say anything about how Cap’s shield deflected Thor’s hammer. Also Cap in his MCU captain America movies and avengers movies really do him a lot more Justice than the 90s Captain America movie. Try criticizing that sorry film.
Mauler, We need you now more than ever!
This is the WORST bait I've ever seen. You showed your hand when you criticized Cap's petty squabbling, when we find out ten seconds later that the mind stone in the staff was making everyone an @$$hole.
Better luck next time.
when Steve gives money to Fury it's dose not count, because Steve is paying up a bet that he and fury made at the begining of the movie.
I think the rubber helmet really is what bugs me. He looks okay in the goofy costume when the helmet is removed. With the helmet it just looks like a bad CW Flash costume
I do too, captain America is a boring character, he has no moral greyness and his motivation is that he's a perfect boy scout
The contemporary agent cannot frame Hawking in terms of past outliers. Yet Cap is the dumb, old guy. A modern man who can't equate Ed Teller or Niels Bohr is an ignoramus.
Cap has presence, indomitable will, coolness under fire, sense of purpose and those are all non-physical traits. He's like Olympic levels of athletic. It's a total dump on a great comic hero.
Did you miss the part where he took out those chitari in front of that cop ?
This is just like how Joss doesn’t know wtf to do with Batman in his version of Justice League. As many problems as Zack Snyder has as a filmmaker, it’s clear that he thought through things like “well shit, Batman needs to have something to do and also look badass even if he’s not as physically powerful as the rest of the League”
A great story after avengers would’ve been steve realizing shield does shady things and bruce banner finding tyrone cash or something lol
To me what makes cap special and I think they went for in this movie is that he gets knocked down and always gets back up. No one took more hits than him in this movie, but he kept on fighting. And in the argument scene though it was uncharacteristic of him I think it was because of Loki's sceptre that they all argued, but still cap's will should be strong enough to be immune to it
I never understood how in the fuck Nat can beat the shit out of Clint on his evil mode.
To be fair, the world had advanced, seems like he didn’t really have time to adjust. He’s playing cetch up to this new world.
Didn’t agree with this video
To be honest, the cop scene make sense. You don't just handover authority even though they probably more qualified then you.
Like if you are a manager of a restaurant, and Elon Musk just show up and gives orders. Will you give him the authority to do so?
this whole video seems like a reach
Whedon as a leftist probably has some bias against the kind of US patriotism for which Cap is a poster boy. But to be fair, on the power scale Cap is a mid level hero at best so he wasn't treated THAT badly, some of it could be chalked up to a realism of sorts.
Also, he probably thrown his shield at less than full force at Thor and Ironman, that would make sense.
You had valid points there nonetheless, so, good video.
He's a leftist? You sure?
@@shardsoftime0952 Absolutely. His mother was a hardcore feminist and raised him to be a rabid leftie.
@@DrKrapulax damm, but like, does that realy make him one too?
@@shardsoftime0952 Like, no, being raised to be a leftie doesn't necessarily MAKE him a leftie, what makes him a leftie is, like, damm, what he says and does. He's totally open about his political affiliation, he even made dedicated political videos FFS.
@@DrKrapulax damm...
lot of people here really jumping to the defense of the "What we lost" line and their defense is something along the lines of
"I always thught it meant..." and that's cool for you and all but everyone is taking a different interpretation using vastly different events and none of them answer the question - because you can't. Because the line is bad.
No matter how hard you shill for it, no matter how many hopium copium explanations you give for it, *it is too vague* AND it's also out of character.
- What specifically, from Cap's perspective, is this line referring to? Because it seems less like a Cap line and more like a Whedon line. Cap never behaves in such a way that shows he believes something majorly wrong has happened - other iterations of this character (including in the MCU) show exactly what happens when Cap believes something is fundamentally broken. This is what happens when the agenda of the writer takes control of the agency of the characters.
_"Oh well, This is why movies feel the need to spoonfeed everything nowadays"_
No. Dialogue is an art. The art of good dialogue is to give insights into a character's inner thoughts. Arguably, the best dialogue that can convey everything and more is stepped in allegory mixed with character actions to confirm & suppliment or (intenioanally) contradict what a character is saying. This dialogue is undercooked. If you were to write a High School-level essay with a random line like this it would be struck through with a demand for clarification.
You can be less vague without spoonfeeding information.
Oh man this movie so many problems people let slide because it was the "first" crossover movie
No wonder general audiences like this film up quips and likable personalities mix everyone not notice the bad writing
See, more sweeping statements.
@@Mj0Skyver
"Sweeping statements" The biggest defense for this film is it was the "first" crossover film so it's okay to have problems.
And literal efap look over bad movies like civil war And the homecoming trilogy with Iron lad because they liked the characters.
And of course being an efap fanboy you will say objective quality but ignore it when it comes to the films you like. 😉 How's that civil war a "good" movie take Ignoring all the continuity that contradicts The bad movie.
Im not into comics. I new nothing about these characters before the movies. I will admit I had pity on Captain America when watching this movie. I watched him constantly struggle and even want to get physical from getting bullied by Tony Stark. I noticed all the other characters kicking ass. I did not even think he should of been there.
you realize that the mind stone was effecting all of the people in that room when they were arguing right?
How is Steve and Tony not getting along a bad thing? They just don’t get along, Steve knowing Tony’s dad doesn’t mean they should bond over it.
Had you watch the video
The line about "They didn't say what we lost" was talking about the soul of America. I always took it as the bombs dropped on Japan. That's a guess, it could mean over all the crap like Paper Clip and some of the backroom deals that caused a bit of morality to bleed out of the America he knew.
This video should be titled "Joss Whedon hates Captain America in the Avengers"
There was like 4-5 deleted scenes with just cap going around, it was cut down due to run time and bc they thought it was gonna be too cap centric
I DIDNT NOTICE ALL THIS UNTIL YOU BROUGHT IT UP HAHAHAH XDDD. YOU MADE A STRONG POINT THOUGH!
media literacy is dead
5:21 he is there because those “Grunts” barely can breathe, because they are maybe 10.000 feet high in the sky so the normal people barely can breathe and the room is damaged, so the best one who can help to restore the power is Cap.
Yeah he struggles to some armed man, because the bullet wounds can kill him, in Winter Soldier he almost died, because he got 3 shot on his body at the end of the movie.
Jesus fucking wept, not only do you have a fundamental misunderstanding of Captain America's character within this film series, but also of the actual events within the film itself.
How can you possibly have watched it '800 times' without absorbing any of the actual events that take place?
I do agree that the movies go out of their way to prop up Iron Man in any situation where he and Cap are on screen together and generally in his own movies they seem to have him garner more respect from everyone else. I also wish they made him reflect being a super soldier more than in just moments where he wasn’t completely obliterated by Thor’s hit in Avengers, holding back Thanos for a time, holding back the helicopter too, etc. I hadn’t thought about how he did struggle against the nameless people that much, even trained soldiers shouldn’t be too much of an issue for Cap considering his strength, experience, reflexes, etc. but much like the other comments point out there were a few moments that I don’t think could be faulted (the argument where everyone’s being influenced by the mind stone, the what we lost comment, etc.) but I’m surprised that you didn’t talk about his final arc as a character in the MCU since I think that shows the most blatant disrespect of his character along with the miscommunication in Civil War. While I do think he would always choose Bucky over just about anyone else, he values honesty and integrity so much I can’t see him hiding something as major as mind controlled Bucky killing Tony’s parents. Not only that but he would try to reassure Tony saying he understands if he’s angry but to understand that he was under insane Hydra mind control so he was really only a puppet. Interesting food for thought tho
Different directions that's why
What we lost? A whole lot of soldiers lives…
This is satire, right? There's no way you're serious about this idea. With all the contradictions, cherry picking, and blatantly taking scenes out of context, it has to be a joke.
I think black widow useful than captain america.
Bro why did they have too end earths mightiest hero
That line he's talking about American freedoms its just not made abundantly clear.
A lot of these gripes are kind of dumb
Really dumb.
Usually I'm right on the money with you but I feel like this is one of your weaker critiques.
*Stronger
@@ArcTrooperRod-269 bruh
doesnt the “we lost” line refer to his disdain for usa’s moraly gray/questionable post-ww2 military ventures?
that's what I though too.
Probably, but it's a pretty vague line to include especially since they don't really show Cap espousing his world views. What did he mean exactly? We don't know because he doesn't opine about the state of the country in any other scene that I can remember.
I always thought it was to do with the nukings
I think It means that America, the country he fought for, ended the WW2 by essentially killing civilian lives.
That didn't feel like a victory for him, it stands against his beliefs.
But again why does that matter. He fought in a war he believed in why would he not like what it cost to win? Captain America is Anti American in the mcu
The thing about Tony not being super-fond of Cap at the start is that he was jealous of how much his father "wouldn't shut up about" Cap, when he was growing up. Howard seemed to heap on Cap the praise Tony desperately wanted.
precisely, no one gets this
@@Moofdalazygodno way i find you here
Steve said “They didn’t say WHAT we lost,” which means he is pointing out the fact that there are still problems in their world.
Aaaannnnndddd world War 2 Wasn't supposed to make the world a better place. Hell is one reason of going into The war is to stop a "bully". Turn world war two really screwed us over and a long news for different reasons it's not something i doubt in america would know about even a general Population doesn't know the consequences of world war two
I paused the video and came looking for this comment. Thanks for letting him know.
@@mikaelgabriel1601 yeah that was unbearable to hear
Tony saying, "call it Cap" wasn't an order. He was giving Cap some encouragement, and letting him know that as a team, they will follow his lead. That's all that was.
So.... an order?
@@testing_something
Lol
It’s still an order 😂
@@testing_something not it isn’t he simply asking captain America what should we do he’s the best one to devise a plan
But he shouldn’t need to tell cap to call it cap should just call it
I disagree with the “call it” scene complaint. I felt like in that moment iron man wasn’t saying that for the sake of giving an order he was demonstrating that he knows he not the leader of this.
Yeah that point was rly not picky in the first place imo
True but point is that status wasn’t evinced in the film thitherto. Sometimes it seemed like his history earned him authority with Coulson and Fury, but Tony was apathetic and the public didn’t seem to know who he was largely.
Right. Its basically him asking what do they do.
I mess with guys videos but I’m ngl he was really just tapping in this one. The fact that every comment is essentially saying he was overthinking everything just further proves that. Was Cap perfect in this film? No, but it was serviceable and wasn’t nearly as bad as the TH-camr is making it. The fact that he was the only one to call Hulk, Hilk just shows he’s a good leader because he respect all of them as a leader and knows them.
You are terrible at describing what has happened in a movie and even worse at making conclusions about has been portrayed.
Okay you claim to have seen this movie like 800 times, yet you never realized Cap's "what we lost" line is referring to the modern world being more morally ambiguous than the one he remembers? Or that everyone in the room when Cap and Tony are arguing is being manipulated by the Mind Stone? The odd camera angles during that scene are practically screaming this.
He just didn’t hear the “what” part. I didn’t understand it either. I heard “the world doesn’t understand we lost” not “what we lost” I only now hear it after reading your comment.
@@Birdlegs14 I heard it all 6 times I watched the movie. My 70 year old mom with horrible hearing just watched it last year, heard it and understood its meaning.
I can understand not hearing it the first 100 times. But the other 700 is on him lol
Thank you
@@DraztikMeasurez I’m gonna call bs on that part about your 70 year old Mom hearing it. Post it to TH-cam or it didn’t happen
@@alphacraig2001 Why? Why wouldn't their mom be able to hear it?
1:32 “I went under, the world was at war. I wake up, and they say that we won - they didn’t say WHAT we lost”
The idea is that the sacrifices made to win, seem insignificant to most people. It plays into the theme of sacrifice later in the movie (His argument with Tony, then Tony “making the sacrifice play” later in the movie.)
Honestly it’s one of my favorite lines of his in the movie
I just commented basically the same thing, im honestly surprised at how he didnt notice that was the line.
Yeah it was pretty easy to hear that I don’t know how he didn’t notice that. It’s even easy to search up the script it’s literally word for word what you said he could’ve done that too 😭😭
I always thought about Hiroshima, Normandy, Vietnam and the reputation of USA
From biggest growing world leader to most hated by world (but for some reason everybody wants to live in he usa🤣🤣🤣🤣)
Bro saw this film “about 800 times” and never caught the line correctly lmao
A lot of Cap's disdain for Iron Man and their argument was orchestrated by Loki using the mind stone to influence all of the Avengers to go at one another. That's why Cap and the rest of the Avengers did and said things that were uncharacteristic of them at that time.
I love all these MCU fanboys being so offended by this video. You guys are what’s wrong with the movie industry. A bunch of sheep buying tickets to these half assed “films”
I know but that doesn't make you right. Weadon messed up alot
Even if that's true, and literally none of that bickering would have occurred without some outside manipulation, it still doesn't work as an explanation unless you actually take the time to explain that at some point. The only visual or dialogue indication we get is that Banner in particular might be influenced somehow. And even then, it's kind of a weak plot point, given that Loki wasn't actually in possession of either the scepter or the stone inside it at the time. With the exception of this moment, maybe, we've seen zero indication at any point in the franchise that an Infinity Stone can be remotely controlled.
So, no criticism of you meant for bringing it up or anything, but that explanation just doesn't work from a writing perspective. Maybe a rationale was envisioned for everybody acting petty and argumentative, but if all we see is the action, that's really all we can judge.
@@mikeroylance289 They made it clear it was Loki's staff doing it. Everyone who watched the movie knew what was going on, didn't they?
@@mikeroylance289 what everyone else said. They enter the scene upside down with the focus being the scepter as it glows, then the camera flips upright to then show the avengers arguing. I suggest revisiting the film.
This is a stretch. Cap isn’t dumb, he’s been dead for years.
Umm...Joss is a tool, but he was VERY good to Captain America 🇺🇸 in AVENGERS 1. Cap is is the most resoundingly good character in the whole movie and in it is established Why he is also WORTHY of the power of Thor for which we get as one of tge few good payoffs in Endgame.
I think you are just a bit misguided as to the intent of the scenes you're examining. Please know, Cap really can do this all day.
I think people have gotten so used to Joss sucking and the MCU becoming awful that they forget the first Avengers films was extremely good
OK? Argue your points. Explain how his inteperatations of those scenes are wrong. Instead of just saying they are.
Is he worthy because he picks a fight with Tony because his feelings got hurt?
Or because he lost every single fight and needed help constantly?
@@Freakcheeksthe mind stone made him do that
The conmment about Cap saying, "Put on the suit, let's go a few rounds" is totally missing the mark. The Infinity Stone within Lokis weapon is causing dissent amongst those close by. It's a spell of possibly another effect, but clearly the ringing tone indicates something is attempting to instigate all those assembled. Remember what happens soon after? Infighting, triggered by setting off the Hulk...all perpetrated by Loki. Cap is being controlled or manipulated into exhibiting hostility unbefitting his morals.
Exactly this video is just a hate critic .
Not to mention the camera work, turning upside down while on the scepter, blatantly making a statement that its the stone.
they could still write cap more mature than this.
@@razmwhow
That's interpretation and speculation, the scepter was never shown causing mind manipulation without someone wielding it.
I feel like Tony and Cap not being friends at the start made sense, not from caps side, I’d expect he’d have some respect for the son of Howard, but from Tony’s side, it was stated that Howard always talked about cap, which would likely fuel Tony’s whole daddy issues towards cap.
It makes sense for Cap to hate Tony too. From the outside looking in, Tony seems like a reckless ahole who likes blowing things up. Cap doesn't know that he's actually a standup guy who is willing to make sacrifices in order to save others.
The "didn't tell me what we lost" line is not that odd when you take into account Steve is entering a new world eager to trade freedoms for security. This is really highlighted in winter soldier with his views on the gun ships.
So...you just ignore all the times he's cool in the movie? His shield blocking mjolnir, for example? Or his awesome response to Black Widow's "gods" line?
Also...those times, like that one, that someone tries to talk Cap out of going into a fight, are there to make him look good! It shows that even though he's not a match for someone like Thor or the Hulk, he just goes in anyway. That is the essence of Captain America.
Yea totally that God line of his is interesting because whedon is an atheist and he still wrote that response so I wouldn't say he has no respect for captain america he easilly could have had cap say something like I got to try ma'am
@@Vincent_Luciano_Simpson my point is he showed the character respect when he put that line there since it went against his personal beliefs. He could have put another response instead but he used one that added a layer to the character even if he felt uncomfortable with it. On the commentary he said that people asked if he's an atheist why did he write that line he just said he is one but cap isn't. I thought that was a very fair mindset.
@@Vincent_Luciano_Simpson no problem
@@jacobwest7 that's awesome to hear. It was a great line that fit the character. Some of the best writers can write characters that have completely different views from them without disrespecting them or their views.
personally cap's line of "there's only one god ma'am and im pretty sure he doesn't dress like that" felt like the writer's talking down to the audience because in cannon Thor is a god by earth standards, so it feels like he's saying something that's blatently wrong in lore, because "hey guys look religion's dumb"
1:44 They lost people. Certain freedoms. Certain lifstyles. Certain ideologies. Could be anything. It's not that hard to work out.
4:00 No. Stark has zero respect for cap. This is explained in further movies. Stark's distain for Cap in Avengers is because his father wouldn't ever shut up about him. His father idolized Cap, whilst treating his own son like dirt. It's daddy-issues and jealousy. That's why
Lol, the "call it" line is basically Tony acknowledging Steve as the real leader of the group, how did you miss that😂
literally
Probably the best example of arguing in bad faith.
yeah i really dont like this video
what we “lost” according to Cap is that we sacrificed our freedoms for security as revealed in Winter soldier. a lot of real world implications right there 🤯
I feel like his power level was at a pretty good point, Captain America is superhuman, but Loki is well beyond that. We see Loki brush off bullets like they are nothing, in spite of that he manages to put up a pretty good fight.
-he was being mind controlled while the "few rounds" part.
-you want to make the statement that in the meet up part, he is treated as weak, but he literally blocks a hit from the magic weapon of a god, being one of the most iconic shots of the movie and of course you cut that part.
-when he loses you say "he is presented as weak" when he beats a bunch of super aliens you say he is "showing off" yeah.
-saying that he is somehow treated like less of an authority because stark told him that basically they are waiting for orders is just ridiculous, totally missing the point of tony going from disrespecting him to respecting his orders.
Honestly maybe 30% of the points given in this video are valid maybe(? but yeah most of it just comes off as you cherrypicking stuff after you alredy decided that cap is treated bad in this movie and you just wanna reinforce that thought, while in reality you are forcing that narrative too much
Imagine saying Captain America is weak and the scene you choose to showcase this is Loki manipulating Thor to beat Iron Man with Mjolnir and Cap freediving out of a moving plane and blocking Thor's hammer, immediately mediating the fight and establishing himself as leader.
Some things you misunderstood, like many in the comments pointed out, like the “we lost” line and the fact that the stone was making the team more hostile. Though I do agree that this film didn’t fully do him justice, they could have displayed his strength and leadership skills far better. Glad that later films did him more justice in that regard, that helicopter scene in Winter Solider is great or that scene in Endgame where he’s about to face Thanos and his army alone, a nice nod to Infinity Gauntlet.
Your points man... some of it's either nitpicky or just straight up misleading
Man, your points and justification for them are terrible. Well, greetings from EFAP.
Great the long man fanboys are here. I guess longman couldn't let somebody tell the truth about that hack wheden. Efap having a bias for whedon
@@ironbaysqiureg4827
Oh great, a brain dead sludge creature came to defend moronic takes. Detractors bias having a bias against Whedon. See, I can do that level of vapid prattling too. ❤
Between this and your Hulk video, I feel your readings of these characters are one note. Especially Cap.
His arc in this movie is about how he feels useless and purposeless in the present. He dislikes Iron Man at first because of his lack of respect and how, on some level, he confirms Cap's insecurities. That's what leads to their argument, along with Loki's magic playing with their heads. The point is that Cap's insecurities are making him act out of character, that he's losing sight of what's important for the sake of nursing his bruised ego.
But later, Cap comes to his senses and, in New York, he proves his usefulness by being the courageous leader to rally everyone together and give the orders, be it to the heroes or the cops.
And no, Iron Man saying "call it, Captain" is NOT Iron Man giving an order to Cap. It's a moment that shows Iron Man's growth too, because throughout the film he's been taking control of every situation, making everything about him. Here, we're seeing an Iron Man willing to delegate and take orders from someone else.
As for Captain America's power level, I guess you have a point, although him standing toe-to-toe with aliens I would argue shows his toughness pretty well. The action could be better choreographed, but it gets the job done.
you should make a video, ripping apart my videos about ripping apart marvel videos
@@braedenalberti 🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@braedenalberti he should
The Loki magic is the weakest arguments presented as to how they are acting in this film to be truthfully honest.
@@UnifiedEntity Whether you accept it or not, that's pretty much what happened. The whole reason Loki allowed himself to be captured was to use the scepter (Mind Stone) to trigger Banner's transformation into the Hulk, which it eventually did. But the scepter was affecting everyone in the room, making them all act more irrational and aggressive than normal. The weird camera angles during that scene clearly imply this.
I think the thing about losing the war was more about how the modern world is complete shit - how we abandoned everything that made us great we abandoned the American values and culture that he was fighting to protect - which is true, our culture has been going to shit since the 1960s and it really sped up the shit show in the 2010s.
Hiroshima Nagasaki
@@aaronnavidad539 Worth it - saved far more lives than it killed, an invasion of Japan would have been a bloody nightmare
@@TH3DUDE0075 Have to agree on that one. I watched a vid about what an invasion would have probably been like, we might have won, but like you said it would have been a blood bath for both sides, landing troops would be dangerous and cost American lives while the Japanese seemed prepared to fight to the bitter end, even civvies. The reason they surrendered when we dropped the bombs was cause they had barely any defense against that type of weapon, and why bother wasting more lives in more bombings, least with the invasion they'd go down honorably fighting to the end.
Steve knows there are both good consequences and bad consequences after every war. He was told the good consequences but didn’t know all the bad consequences yet.
@@TH3DUDE0075 Japan gave up due to their losses against the Soviets not because of the nukes
Those ten dollars scene
Was about a bet he and Nick fury did
It's not about him being dumb
Colin fans coming and hating just draw in views
It would be nice if any of them had a actually option except calling Branden stupid, but oh well
They have lots of options
"Classic comic book fan" doesn't know that Iron Man and Loki are way over Cap level, even when the serum grants him super strength.
I'm gonna have to disagree with this take. I think you saw a few things in this and viewed everything else through the lense that it probably was meant to suck. Instead of seeing the awesome moments for what they were.
Like for example:
-The fact that captain America was fighting loki despite the power difference
-blocking Mjlnior
-the fact that Captain America did destroy some of the chitari
-Captain America was organizing most of the shots despite being beat down over and over again.
In summary I don't find your argument strong enough say that Cap looked pathetic in this movie
He really doesn’t do anything cool js.
@@codycray8461
Mf did u even watch the movie or do u expect every dude to be on pars with gods.
@@succboah2000 nigga he’s trash in the first movie. I’ve seen every marvel movie to date. Compared to his later feats he’s ass, garbage, trash, sucky, doo doo.
@@succboah2000 clearly u didn't listen 👂
Why was he struggling with 3 henchmen.... While everyone was mopping the floor with him
Twice
@@xanacary2071
Clearly you didn’t read the previous dudes comment. He says he doesn’t do anything cool despite being a dude who’s in peak human psychic and manages to have one of the greatest feats in the MCU.
Broski is expecting Captain America to fight god on day one
I actually like the design of Cap's first modern suit. I thin it works because it' kind of cheesy and impractical looking, we do later on see him use more detailed and practical suits.
It looks more like pajamas than a super hero suit
Captain Puerto Rico 🇵🇷
Quite possibly some of the worst takes on a film and it's characters ever put into a TH-cam video. Please, for the love of god, don't attempt this again.😂🤦
Iron Man DID NOT order Cap to give the orders... He is literally acknowledging that Cap is the best equipped to make the tactical call, finally showing Cap that he respects him. That being said, I do agree that Avengers 1 severely underutilized him. The Russo brothers fixed it and he quickly became the fan favorite.
I just rewatched this movie, and other than a lack of power creep, Cap wasn’t ruined in this film. He is much more underwhelming in Age of Ultron for me.
I'm sure this guy watched Avengers 800 times but it's clear he never paid attention to it ONCE.
I'm pretty sure captain america is saying "they didn't say 'what' we lost," as in they didn't say what it cost to win.
Yeah, Steve went into the ice before Hiroshima & Nagasaki. He also missed out on the atrocities of the Cold War, which itself was a result of WW2.
6:55 gotta disagree there. As of the start of the movie it's clear Cap has been basically in hiding to adjust to the modern world. I don't think anyone would recognize him yet as being THE captain america back from the dead.
Like, if I was a cop stuck in a warzone like that, and some dude looking like an Abe Lincoln cosplayer runs up and starta giving me orders like he thinks he's the actual fucking president, I'm gonna question it.
Let me save y’all thirteen minutes: he’s an Ironman simp, and he’s salty about Captain. AmERicA being the face of the team
I mean he’s not wrong for the most part
Only two films that I liked Cap at were at Winter Soldier and IW
I think you forgot that Loki's staff was influencing them. Cap's great and all, but he's still a guy and remember, he came from an era where men could settle things in a fist fight. "I can do this all day" scene. You're right about the Stark love, though. Whedon loves Tony Stark. But it's Captain who bonds with Coulsen and the other teammates. He ignores the Hulk to respect Banner and Tony tries to ignite the Hulk while miles in the air.
And I would even say that it adds to character, since he looks more human for being angry at times (even if it's with the stone help) and not 100% calm person
1:30 I disagree with you here. It's clear he's talking about WWII. Steve says "they say we won; they didn't say what we lost" and then you go "Is it WW2? But we won that." Yeah, the Allies won the war. But we also lost things along the way. The American way of life changed post-war. Certain rights that people had pre-war were gone post-war. Hell, look at things people could do pre-9/11 vs. after. It's not up to the MCU to explain real world history that isn't tied into MCU specific lore.
This aged like Milk what you guys ran out of things to complain about the mcu so made one up 😂
There’s definitely a power scaling problem in the MCU. Seems like falling is The Avenger’s top OPP.
I feel like the line "they didn't say what we've lost" was a reference to 9/11 and the Patriot Act.
At first it seems like you want Cap to be perfect, flawless, and way more powerful than a human with a super-soldier serum should be, but then you start describing the Cap you want to see from the comics and it becomes clear that all of the "800" times you've seen the movie you were just not paying attention. It honestly just reads like you saw Cap do one thing you didn't like and that made you see the rest of Cap's actions for the entire movie in that negative way.
"WE can do this all day." I think I just cringed out of my fucking spine.