The Origins of George Benson Picking Technique? Gypsy Jazz and Gospel Similarities
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ธ.ค. 2022
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Intro video is with Fukuoka guitarist
植木誠一. Great musicians in Fukuoka!!! ❤
Thanks Danny for taking the time to show us all this. I will check your book for sure.... : )
There is a guy called Peter Farrel who studied with Benson and has a TH-cam channel. He says Benson uses downstroke when changing strings and addapts his scale paterns (2 or 4 notes pero strings) when descending the scale to avoid upstrokes. He offers deep insight into this style.
I think that Peter Farrell and George Benson, himself, state that an UP PICK is ALWAYS used when changing strings. Check out Breezin’ Lounge video which you can find on TH-cam.
@@DonOneDetroit Will check out
@@DonOneDetroit i checked the video again. Its an upstroke before you land on the new string with a downstroke. Check minute 3:00 th-cam.com/video/UMCevhKiFfk/w-d-xo.htmlfeature=shared
Either approach appears to start with the pick grip. The Benson grip uses the pad of the thumb and pad of the index finger, which automatically puts the pick in a place where the inner edge of the pick hits the strings first on downstrokes. The position of the wrist after that can further offset the way the pick hits the strings to smooth out the attack, to taste.
When you switch to Gypsy mode, the pad of the thumb meets the side of the index finger (or a slight blend of side and pad), setting up the outer edge of the pick to hit the strings first on downstrokes. Long story short, if pick grip is being taught a certain way, either directly or indirectly, maybe the subsequent motions are an eventuation thereof, in either approach.
The pick grip is definitely an important factor, and I definitely do change the grip as I change technique! I also use a different pick for Gypsy Jazz picking!
Very thoughtful observations and lots of good points made here. The choice of the "right" picking technique often entails years of trial and error and is idiosyncratic or individualized. I enjoyed your philosophical/historical approach as well as your playing!
great vid. superb analysis of material
Happy almost new year 🎉
There are overlaps in styles. Classic Gypsy picking has the wrist and forearm rotation that is different from Benson picking. Steve Morse is a rock guitarist but his right hand position is similar to Bensons, as is Santana's. A lot of the old school bluegrass pickers used rest strokes so they have that in common with Benson/Gypsy mechanics but still different. Benson picking is different enough from Gypsy picking to be able to make a distinction.
I am enjoying working with your Gypsy Picking book, excellent resource. Damn! teachers pet again 😆
There's a video titled, "Cuatrista Eddie Lopez" on the erlam23 channel. At around the 50sec mark, you can see his picking technique. It's similar to George Benson's.
I use that tech. I call it the reverse grip. It’s basically the same as the GB technique (who happens to be my favorite guitarist). The difference for me is I fold my fingers under and rest my knuckles on the pickguard or strings rather than putting my fingertips as the anchor. That’s just the way I grabbed a pick when I started playing 55 years ago. I didn’t have a teacher. By the way, when I started playing sax, I didn’t know the reed was supposed to go on the bottom! After a few months I got a lesson and the teacher looked at me pretty funny. I moved the reed to the bottom but kept my upper lip against the mouthpiece (nobody does that) which gives a warm tone.
Excellent topic.
Just received your book.. will peruse later today.
I have one comment: Spiral Binding please,willing to pay more to make the book easier/practical/convenient to use.
Happy New Year.
Hi, you can try to contact the publisher and see what they say. I just write the books.
thats a lovely godin model! never seen it before
Nice video! I thought you're little story about the guy criticizing your technique, saying it wasn't "true benson picking" was funny. Crazy how some people can't seem to grasp the idea of generally labeling the picking style as "benson picking", just for convenience sake, so it's easier to communicate the topic to a mass audience, where more people know what you're referring to. I would agree with you, that it should be more about having a basic idea of what bennefits this picking style can offer, and falling into your own unique version of the style that suits you, than just trying to copy benson exactly the same way, as if it even matters. I recently made a video on this same topic a few weeks back, and I also put a little disclaimer in there, kind of insinuating the same thing, and that people shouldn't obsess over what benson is exactly doing, but rather understand the general idea of why you would even want to play this way, and then do your own exploring/trial and error. I made a lot of the same points you did, as far as tips go for how to adopt this style/technique, if you want to check it out...th-cam.com/video/Qho2eeJhOdM/w-d-xo.html
Just saw your comment! Will check out the video!
No resting the pinky on the pickguard?
Dennis- Love that you are diving deep on this! I need to add something if I may- there is often a very clear physiological reason behind the George Benson technique, and I'm surprised that it seems like nobody's talking about this- almost all of the people that naturally use the George Benson technique have an "L Shaped" or slightly "double jointed" thumb that curves towards 90° rather than being straight. It's extremely common for African-American men and women to have thumbs that are shaped like this, and it's a common trait of African descent. If you look at any other players that have straight thumbs, it's very rare to see any of them holding the pick that way. I think it has very little to do with culture and much more to do with the physical realities of having an L-shaped thumb. Granted, you don't need a particular shaped thumb to use either technique, but with myself having a very short and straight thumb, I have to press the pic into the very front of my thumbnail just to get a decent angle for the George Benson technique. This does not make it as natural of a grip for me versus someone with an L-shaped thumb who can get the right angle and still have the pick on the pad of their thumb. And vice versa, for someone with an L-shaped thumb, they have to curve their thumb joint more than they typically would comfortably do to use a more standard picking angle. Granted, I've seen both sides do both, but genre/style plays a part in that. If you are using a really thin pick with a focus much more on rhythm guitar then alternate picking, like Nile Rogers, it doesn't really matter, he uses a standard picking technique even with his curved thumb. But once you start getting heavy into alternate picking, it seems to be better to use the picking technique that suits the shape of your thumb. That being said there are times that I will use the George Benson technique for certain runs and I love the way it feels and sounds, but I have trouble doing it for long periods of time like entire songs because I start losing grip on the pick since I can't get enough of the pad of my thumb on it. I too have met Dan Wilson and watched him up close and saw how much this thumb physiology lends to holding the pick that way. Basically the more curved your thumb joint is, the better you will be able to do the George Benson technique. I have noticed that your thumb joint for example is not as curved as say Cecil Alexander or George Benson, but it's definitely more curved than my own tiny straight little thumb 😂 and therefore you yourself do it better than me for sure. I think one of the best advantages of that technique is that it can allow you to use thinner picks with a rounder tip like the good old Fender medium/Fender heavy and still get a fat sound without having to use a hard pointy jazz pick like most standard pick grip players end up using. I have noticed that you yourself still continue using a hard pointy jazz pick w/ GB technique. For fun sometime, I recommend trying a thinner standard shaped pick on your arch tops with flatwound strings sometime w/ GB technique, makes it easier to get those high speed but softer volume smooth runs like GB does. Keep up the great content friend!
Well said. I found that similarity of gripping the pick between African guitar players from Congo especially, where they are best and African American players. I was surprised. These are guys who played in the 70s and 80s in Africa, not here. I looked at that big thumb that seems double joined and started thinking like you just wrote. I'm just glad someone else had my observations.
That’s certainly an intriguing theory, but there are non L shaped thumb players also using the same technique. As someone said in a previous comment, the way you grip the pick matters a lot. Just having a naturally curved thumb won’t make you adopt that technique automatically. Nonetheless, a very intriguing theory!
@@DenisChangMusic That's true! It does come down to pick grip regardless of physiology. I think it's so cool that you are spending time researching this in such detail- One cool picker that I highly recommend you check out is Barry Greene, Jazz guitar professor from University of North Florida and he has a fantastic TH-cam channel! I personally took some lessons with him in Florida and he has one of the deceptively coolest alternate picking techniques I've ever seen, It's similar to Pat Martino but he has such strict up and down alternative picking that he ended up becoming one of the best cross-pickers I know of in jazz, continuing the strict alternate up and down regardless of whether he's in between the strings or not, and he does this cleanly and with soul. When he is going up on an arpeggio one note per string, instead of sweeping through it, he will usually just keep alternate picking the whole thing up and down 😂, even at high tempos. It's incredible. Thanks for all you do Dennis!
Landitty, I took a workshop with Barry Greene when I studied with Steve Masakowsky (who has a "modified GB tecnique" which is also great!) in the University of New Orleans. Just like you I was very impressed by him. Barry is an absolute killer, one of the best guitarplayers I ever saw. I remember he used a small pick and indeed striktly alternate picking, no restrokes. He felt "very free" in his playing. Lot's of really contemporary lines over superimposed changes. Great!
@@frankforke Frank, that's awesome!
Barry is definitely one of the best players in the world and is still currently making fantastic content on TH-cam, definitely check out his channel! He was a huge positive influence on me when I was a teenager. It was watching him play in person that confirmed for me that I wanted to play Jazz guitar seriously for the rest of my life. (Replying to you from my other profile, music channel)
Another great video Denis. I got your Gypsy Picking book which I'm enjoying working through.
Any chance of doing something on Tremolo Picking which is also used a lot in Gypsy Jazz?
🎵😀
Hello and happy new year! I don’t know if tremolo picking is used all that much in Gypsy Jazz if you mean playing as fast as possible on just one note. Tremolo is definitely used on chords though. I am not exactly sure what I can say about it other than just pick down and up following the proper mechanics, using the wrist.
@@DenisChangMusic thanks
I am using GB picking also..and what i noticed was..if you go for speed..you will use your elbow ...the standard picking used alot of wrist..
i saw a GB interview where he referenced learning it because his Dad told him to hold his pick while his arm was down fully extended and then asked him to "bring it up" so that tells us that his father who was also a guitarist most likely had a similar style of picking, meaning the surrounding community was also using it. im sure GB also sees the pick as an extension of his thumb because his thumb playing is also insanely fast. I personally use the "GB" picking technique also for the tone it provides. if you're trying to sound like something specifically, just mimic it entirely. is my logic..
That’s a very interesting theory! Wish we could ask him directly in detail!
@@DenisChangMusicI know some things about Wes..GB techniques plus more never publicized.
I found your GB line flowed better and was smoother in tone than the other. Probably due to angle of pick attack as well.
I’m using the lipstick pickup of this guitar. As I’ve said in previous videos and in my book, I am personally not super convinced with using the “pure” Gypsy Jazz technique on electric instruments. The nuances get buried in the electronics. I think if I had played on an acoustic guitar, it would be more apparent!
I want to learn this technique
Ahh, the Benson picking rabbit hole. Are used to have an endorsement deal with ibanez and hung out with George at the NAAM show for an entire afternoon in Washington play in the got to play some duets with him. But the first person I ever saw use this technique was a guitarist from Detroit where I grew up name Perry Hughes Perry is definitely in the George Benson, Wes Montgomery, discipleship line, and Perry is probably around George’s age, anyway, I adopted that picking style because it seem to really work playing funk and soul music so instead of switching the angle when you went from playing rhythm to soloing, you just learn to articulate the single lines. Anyway, nice video a nice playing.
Holy moly! He sounds great! And so do you! I checked out some of your videos! I think my suspicions are correct that GB didn't actually invent the technique but that it was widely used by African American guitarists in the church community in that region of the USA
Great video
I always thought that George Benson's picking technique came from Wes' thumb technique. The thumb, I think, is in a similar upwards position with a slightly bent unanchored wrist in both techniques. Now I'm not saying that GB and WM necessarily invented both techniques, but I find that they are closely related.
I think Wes’ technique is very close to the technique used by Gypsy Jazz players, mainly downstrokes and rest strokes
Thanks Denis - I like your shirt! Great deep dive into picking technique and I like your description of working with a teacher to get the technique down.
The origins of George Benson's picking technique was me. He learned it all from me. Fact.
Jesse van Ruller also use this picking technique (sometimes). It would be nice if he show up in your course also.
th-cam.com/video/BqJAr-wYvGM/w-d-xo.html