Maybe I am mishearing you but I think I disagree with you regarding permaculture having less emphasis on 'high yield.' Permaculture is high yield. You're missing that it has a lot more *innate added value* than conventioal orcharding, conventional organic practices, and conventional ag in general. Permaculture emphasizes ethics, people care, animal care, food security, healthy, regenerative/restorative/holistic practices, etc. Do like your general breakdown between food forests and orchards. Pretty accurate. Prefer Mark Shepard's iteration of a food forest, and its management, especially from a commercial perspective.
Thanks for the comment, appreciate your view. From my course and Bill Mollison's books it is clear to me that the emphasis in Permaculture is always on the soil health. At the same time, food forests have naturally more yields than conventional or organic orchards, but not because we aim to get as much yield as possible per square meter, but it's thanks to increased biodiversity, more species grown in the same area, and improved soil fertility from year to year. So I agree with you, Permaculture results in high yields, but it comes after having set different objectives in comparison to conventional growing practices which basically aim to obtain the highest yield as possible no matter the consequences (e.g. soil degradation).
Great video, very educational. Thank you! Some questions though: That is a very large variety of plants. Do you grow from the seed or sapling/plug? Where do you get them? Do you go non GMO? I can't find anywhere in my area (Spain) that doesn't dell agro industry plants.
Hi! Thanks for watching and for great questions! In terms of trees, I mostly grow bare root and take them from a local nursery. In Italy there is a big choice of native and foreign varieties. When it comes to vegetables and herbs, I was looking for heirloom seeds (non-hybrid, non-gmo) and it's difficult to find a company in Italy advertising these seeds. So I found a company from Germany called "Magic Garden Seeds." They have lots of different seeds to choose from but not all of them may be adequate to your climate. I had lots of success with pumpkins, courgettes and other gourds but less with tomatoes and cold loving plants as it's much warmer in Italy. I'd check how "heirloom seeds" are called in Spanish and see if you can find any company selling them as close to you as possible. I'd also check permaculture farms in Spain and ask them if they sell trees or seeds because most likely they'd have a good, healthy, plant stock. Hope it's helpful.
Orchards are high yield as their is all going for sale, and as a result they will need more work water, pesticides etc in comparison with food forest , also it is strange that grass in the orchard are competitors for resources but for some reason in food forest all of the many plants are shown like they are not in the fight for same resources, also I can really syy why you would compare both, one is high yield production that will then be translated into income while I am skeptical food forest would be any closer to match an orchard, I also can't see the point of this food forest , how is it any better then just growing them apart, the plants and trees would not be in competition for water and nutrients
Growing them apart prevents them from cooperating. Plants do not only compete for resources. Nitrogen-fixation for example. The idea is to use many species to do many tasks simultaneously.
A food forest likely will not maximize yield but that's not the goal! The goal is to maximize longevity and minimize costs (both economically and ecologically). Maximizing yields causes problems. We can feed the world more efficiently this way. It will just be less profitable. But what's more important? Feeding people for generations to come or making money this quarter?
@@bgiv2010 1st - nitrogen fixation is plant + bacteria , not a plant and then a tree , 2nd - plants can do multiple taks but the results will be lower as there are more plants competing for sun , water, nutrients and carbon, if you try to have multiple species in an environment that has not enough rainfal which also mean poorer soil etc those plants will fight for resources not work as a team, 3rd - if this does not maximize the yeld and this is not its purpose i dont see why you wold call it food forest, call it soil conservation or smth, if you cannot maximize or even be at the same level as curent techniques how can you ever feed the world MORE efficiently? profits is a necessary thing to be able to feed the world - i dont think you would want to work your butt off and not getting the most of money out of it , nobody likes to work in their own detriment, in this case we should focus on improving the existing techniques , crop rotation, cover crop, tree alleys,pastures , more environment friendly fertilizers no till to have minimal soil disturbance
Thanks for the comment! I compared both because I wanted to show an alternative to setting up orchards in conventional way. Instead, it is so much better to create biodiversity. Less money spend on pesticides, herbicides and fungicides means more resources to focus on soil health and a stable ecosystem. It also means less efforts to maintain fertility in orchards as the nature does it all for you. Yes it takes some efforts in the beginning but the results remain for generations. In conventional orchards you need to work year after year and you end up with worse and worse soil condition. Whilst I stated that the goal of setting up orchards is to have high yield, this means essentially that it's done at all cost. Whilst in food forest when focusing on soil health you end up with high yields anyway, but it's only because you work with nature. Pests attack unhealthy plants. When you have healthy and stable ecosystem you have less problems. Grass is in fact a competitor for young fruit trees, so to get better results it is much better to plant herbs or nitrogen fixing cover crops at least at the base of a tree.
IF you only grow one or two species, you wont have diversity in fungi network in the soil that work with dirt (silicates, rocks and sand) releasing minerals. Every species have different type of fungi and different species of bacteria. Example - Palm species work with a particular fungi which accumulate phosphorus, so if you go in a forest in tropical climate you'd see lot of palm species. so if you have a large orchard you can plant palm species among the trees and the dead leaves are loaded with phosphorus that one can use as a composted material for the farm. the same goes for bacteria, there hundreds of rhizobium bacteria species ( the nitrogen fixing bacteria). There are two types of fungi - i) type infect the roots, ii) type coat the roots. one of two species wont have the number of species. Its not about the amount of trees its the number of species that create the bacteria factories that plants eat. Plants do not store those nutrients, they shed the leaves back in cooler time of the year. so its incorrect to say that the soil will deplete with nutrients if you grow a lot of species in semi-arid climate. Yea plants are carnivores. they eat from the dead microbes by baiting them with root exudates. perhaps study the fungi and the type of bacteria work with particular species. the more bacterial colonies the more the richness of the soil. I live in Dubai, UAE, in my garden alone we had 50 species of plants. it changed the soil in our garden from dead saline sand to a rich sandy loam. Oh, also it does not rain here more than 2 inches a year.
I'm in love with this Channel, so eye opening so fun so colorful & the girl's voice is so soothing.
Thank you so much for leaving such a nice comment! More videos in production!
another great video!
Thank you for coming back, appreciate your time!
Maybe I am mishearing you but I think I disagree with you regarding permaculture having less emphasis on 'high yield.'
Permaculture is high yield. You're missing that it has a lot more *innate added value* than conventioal orcharding, conventional organic practices, and conventional ag in general.
Permaculture emphasizes ethics, people care, animal care, food security, healthy, regenerative/restorative/holistic practices, etc.
Do like your general breakdown between food forests and orchards. Pretty accurate.
Prefer Mark Shepard's iteration of a food forest, and its management, especially from a commercial perspective.
Thanks for the comment, appreciate your view. From my course and Bill Mollison's books it is clear to me that the emphasis in Permaculture is always on the soil health. At the same time, food forests have naturally more yields than conventional or organic orchards, but not because we aim to get as much yield as possible per square meter, but it's thanks to increased biodiversity, more species grown in the same area, and improved soil fertility from year to year. So I agree with you, Permaculture results in high yields, but it comes after having set different objectives in comparison to conventional growing practices which basically aim to obtain the highest yield as possible no matter the consequences (e.g. soil degradation).
@@granvisio
Very much agreed! It's holistic high yield.
Great video, very educational. Thank you!
Some questions though:
That is a very large variety of plants.
Do you grow from the seed or sapling/plug?
Where do you get them?
Do you go non GMO?
I can't find anywhere in my area (Spain) that doesn't dell agro industry plants.
Hi! Thanks for watching and for great questions! In terms of trees, I mostly grow bare root and take them from a local nursery. In Italy there is a big choice of native and foreign varieties. When it comes to vegetables and herbs, I was looking for heirloom seeds (non-hybrid, non-gmo) and it's difficult to find a company in Italy advertising these seeds. So I found a company from Germany called "Magic Garden Seeds." They have lots of different seeds to choose from but not all of them may be adequate to your climate. I had lots of success with pumpkins, courgettes and other gourds but less with tomatoes and cold loving plants as it's much warmer in Italy. I'd check how "heirloom seeds" are called in Spanish and see if you can find any company selling them as close to you as possible. I'd also check permaculture farms in Spain and ask them if they sell trees or seeds because most likely they'd have a good, healthy, plant stock. Hope it's helpful.
I’m watching this video just as I’m getting a job in an orchard u_u
Great! Share what you've learned!
Orchards are high yield as their is all going for sale, and as a result they will need more work water, pesticides etc in comparison with food forest , also it is strange that grass in the orchard are competitors for resources but for some reason in food forest all of the many plants are shown like they are not in the fight for same resources, also I can really syy why you would compare both, one is high yield production that will then be translated into income while I am skeptical food forest would be any closer to match an orchard, I also can't see the point of this food forest , how is it any better then just growing them apart, the plants and trees would not be in competition for water and nutrients
Growing them apart prevents them from cooperating. Plants do not only compete for resources. Nitrogen-fixation for example. The idea is to use many species to do many tasks simultaneously.
A food forest likely will not maximize yield but that's not the goal! The goal is to maximize longevity and minimize costs (both economically and ecologically). Maximizing yields causes problems. We can feed the world more efficiently this way. It will just be less profitable. But what's more important? Feeding people for generations to come or making money this quarter?
@@bgiv2010 1st - nitrogen fixation is plant + bacteria , not a plant and then a tree , 2nd - plants can do multiple taks but the results will be lower as there are more plants competing for sun , water, nutrients and carbon, if you try to have multiple species in an environment that has not enough rainfal which also mean poorer soil etc those plants will fight for resources not work as a team, 3rd - if this does not maximize the yeld and this is not its purpose i dont see why you wold call it food forest, call it soil conservation or smth, if you cannot maximize or even be at the same level as curent techniques how can you ever feed the world MORE efficiently? profits is a necessary thing to be able to feed the world - i dont think you would want to work your butt off and not getting the most of money out of it , nobody likes to work in their own detriment, in this case we should focus on improving the existing techniques , crop rotation, cover crop, tree alleys,pastures , more environment friendly fertilizers no till to have minimal soil disturbance
Thanks for the comment! I compared both because I wanted to show an alternative to setting up orchards in conventional way. Instead, it is so much better to create biodiversity. Less money spend on pesticides, herbicides and fungicides means more resources to focus on soil health and a stable ecosystem. It also means less efforts to maintain fertility in orchards as the nature does it all for you. Yes it takes some efforts in the beginning but the results remain for generations. In conventional orchards you need to work year after year and you end up with worse and worse soil condition. Whilst I stated that the goal of setting up orchards is to have high yield, this means essentially that it's done at all cost. Whilst in food forest when focusing on soil health you end up with high yields anyway, but it's only because you work with nature. Pests attack unhealthy plants. When you have healthy and stable ecosystem you have less problems. Grass is in fact a competitor for young fruit trees, so to get better results it is much better to plant herbs or nitrogen fixing cover crops at least at the base of a tree.
IF you only grow one or two species, you wont have diversity in fungi network in the soil that work with dirt (silicates, rocks and sand) releasing minerals. Every species have different type of fungi and different species of bacteria.
Example - Palm species work with a particular fungi which accumulate phosphorus, so if you go in a forest in tropical climate you'd see lot of palm species. so if you have a large orchard you can plant palm species among the trees and the dead leaves are loaded with phosphorus that one can use as a composted material for the farm. the same goes for bacteria, there hundreds of rhizobium bacteria species ( the nitrogen fixing bacteria).
There are two types of fungi - i) type infect the roots, ii) type coat the roots. one of two species wont have the number of species. Its not about the amount of trees its the number of species that create the bacteria factories that plants eat. Plants do not store those nutrients, they shed the leaves back in cooler time of the year. so its incorrect to say that the soil will deplete with nutrients if you grow a lot of species in semi-arid climate. Yea plants are carnivores. they eat from the dead microbes by baiting them with root exudates.
perhaps study the fungi and the type of bacteria work with particular species. the more bacterial colonies the more the richness of the soil.
I live in Dubai, UAE, in my garden alone we had 50 species of plants. it changed the soil in our garden from dead saline sand to a rich sandy loam. Oh, also it does not rain here more than 2 inches a year.