There is A LOT more I could go into on this topic but the video was running pretty long as is. That being said, if you would like me to cover other aspects of naval combat such as using different weapon loadout types with examples, non-mirror match scenarios, dealing with torpedoes and missile boats etc. Let me know below. Remember when operating as a crew that communication is the number one ingredient for achieving positive results for the outcome of what ever task you choose to undertake. If however, you are finding yourself flying alone and would like to change that, an organization can help you there. If you are looking for an organization, our group The Forgotten Heralds is currently recruiting. Visit forgottenheralds.org to apply today. Let me know if you found this video helpful. Are you planning on running large ships with friends or orgmates in the future? Are you also looking forward to the Polaris and much more that will (hopefully) be around the corner? If you have any additional questions, feel free to leave them below. - Become a member and support the show! th-cam.com/channels/eSMtWcJwjm6Dj4GrWFngqA.htmljoin Join the Discord! discord.gg/mRFMCANaCu See you all in the next one. o7
Communication is super important but I think something that always gets glossed over is letting your command rest, give an order and shut up for a minute or two to let your company tackle whatever the OBJ you've outlined is. There's a delicate balance of Holding the leash and letting your grip slack just a little. Don't think I didn't notice it happening here! Quite well done.
On the bridge layouts: for sub-capitals, I don't believe anything other than Pilot-Systems-Gunner or Pilot-Systems/Gunner. Any more and you lose precious real estate, when there's little enough crew aboard that you really don't need anything more complex than onboard radio comms to give commands. You're not there handling multiple channels as a captain and giving orders left and right to the point you are entirely dedicated to the role, a captain's chair will only make sense once capitals are added, which no doubt will require NPC crew that's going to be far less autonomous than people and you'll be requiring an interface to give them direction. At the same time, the person giving the orders to the crew does not need to be the one to pilot the ship even in a sub-capital: they could be the ones handling the power management since they are likely already looking out in third person to better see the position of the enemy to decide the best approach, or if access to gunnery simply gives control to the ship's ordnance instead of a more constantly demanding task like a turret (Looking at the Andromeda), they could be spending that time inbetween locks keeping strategic awareness. I believe the 890j takes on the type of arrangement you see on real life large yatchs: only one or two captains are on retainer and they multitask the majority of the navigation, with maybe one engineer who doesn't need to keep appearences as much and can wear more practical work attire, making sure everything is in good order despite the overall low functional demand from the ship's systems. Yatchs usually just run along the coast and are not blue water vessels, they don't take extended trips where costant attention would be required unlike a cruise ship.
Yeah I think for subcapitals, assigning the captain to manage ship systems (at least from the bridge) makes the most sense rather than trying to both pilot and coordinate with gunners, escorts, and potentially in the future engineers running around inside the ship putting out fires and trying to fix things. Managing energy and shield distribution is low-tempo work, requiring many fewer choices per minute, relative to piloting or gunnery.
idk, i think the point of a captains chair is to be able to use the chair to go in third person. See the entire battlefield and their only focus would be to give directions to their crew about what to do.
I can't even get my ship to spawn reliably. And when I jump in to the XT fight, I'm frozen in space for minutes. Then I either can't arm my missiles or fire my repeaters OR my ship refuses to move even after powering the ship/engines on and off. Playing since 3.23 came out has been 90 percent bullshit and bugs.
Pu is unplayable nothing new. Hopefully the first iteration of sm fixes things, the biggest tank to the servers is landing zones on cities so instanced hangers might help too
This was a really great watch, fun to finally see some full scale battles. Would loved to have seen more interior ship views and editing fighter cams in the mix
how do you get into AC lobbies? I don't have any friends in SC so when I go onto AC I can never play online matches because the lobby is always empty :( I wish they had matchmaking so you can just hop on and play / practice.
once armour get out a carrack vs carrack will take a week to end. size 4 are not a good size for battling large ships. the side turret should go size 5. it would still make it low damage but at least not no damage vs large targets. it got no pilot weapons so it should be personally top and sides size 5 and below size 4.
(TLDR: I think speed so be around the 600m/s range, and change the the downside of NAV mode, like no shields why)I'm still not a fan with master modes, i hate the artificial speed. Like you telling me a Boeing 747 can travel faster in atmosphere then ships in space(I'm talking about SCM mode). I get speed was very high, but they could've kept it around the 600 m/s range. Like this game has the ability to have 6 degree of freedom in space and more traditional 3 degree of freedom in atmosphere. The only benefit of MM is that fights will have a ending. But the biggest downside is their is no more skilled, it now you can have more speed and dps. Like there no such thing in space to drain you opponent energy or let him overshoot, or gain more energy using gravity.
Totally agree. Scm is just way too slow to be interesting for fighter v. fighter battles. There was so many more interesting maneuvers and depth before MM. No shields going from scm to nav is kind of understandable to prevent ppl just having an easy out. Maybe giving just enough starting shield would be a good middle ground. But no shields arriving at a quantum jump is rough especially when there’s lag and people are waiting to gank you before you get control of your ship. Idk that’s a tricky thing to balance.
The speed was artificially limited before master modes as well, just at a higher value. It was just as unrealistic as now. In reality you should be able to accelerate your ship as long as you burn your engines. But that never was the vision of this game. Master modes may not be the optimal solution and I expect further changes but at least now the feel of space combat is more close to what we are used from pop culture space combat. Sure it's not realistic but the more realistic you make it the more it becomes Kerbal Space Program.
You speak for a minority, proper Large Scale Naval Combat has been a want from the community, and promise from CIG for a long time. Besides MM doesn't cripple your single person Fighter experience, learn the new system, its quite fun for Player Bounties imo. (And yes Yogi has admitted that the Fighter V Fighter experience needs work, this is not the final iteration of MM, Design is very iterative and they want and need Data to bring the system to its full potential)
This will not be the last iteration on MMs - but personally, I think that it both adds some strategic choice AND accessability for the majority of players.
@@kyoko4651 MM absolutely cripple the single fighter experience. I'm tired of seeing noobs speak like they know what they're talking about... When you get better, and fight better pilots, and end up completely stuck in a nose to nose DPS race, we'll see what you think of Master Modes.
Its amazing how different this plays. And all they did was force us to slow down. I have very much enjoyed my random dozen or so combat encounters now. I hated combat before. We have a ways to go yet before we see good balance though. I'm surprised they made such drastic changes to many things across the board in its first iteration.
I think Harbinger1 was right. I should ditch trying to string my own org along, and just join the Heralds. This is all I wish mine was.This training looks so cool. And yes, I am making sure all my landings are as cinematic as can be. 😉
890J, while its the only viable analog for its class right now, is 100% not even close to what even a non-luxury frigate is gonna be like in operation(s). That being said, Good Vid! The rest of it was quite enjoyable.
Dude, I dunno... SC is trying a little too hard to just be Star Wars. Multi-crew ships just fight like bigger slower single-seaters but with turrets lol A contemporary DDG from our 2024 era could solo an entire server's worth of SC multi-crew ships, I don't see anything 'scifi' about this at all. IF CIG wants a little inspiration, they could maybe look to The Expance for a little more variety in combat loops and scope. Maybe toss in some rail guns for medium range? Missiles for long range engagements? Some electronic warfare, additional layers of gameplay? Guns are fine if the fight devolves into a close-range brawl, but there should be a couple more layers above that, not just 'turrets go burrrrrt lol" and that's it. We're in space, we have a ton of room to fight. Why does combat have to be everyone fighting in a broom closet? lol
great video. a lot of my friends ask what multicrew combat is like, and its hard to produce an encounter or find decent content of it. solid representation.
Would love to see how bombers fit into engagements like this! I think having to defend against bombers will give the escorts something to watch for and balance against fighter to fighter combat
I'm curious how was your power/energy levels on the 890 Jump? You were firing non-stop, I'm curious if you were able to keep up with both shields, engines and weapons with the energy/power available.
Full power to shields the entire time. Engines only help with boost rotation and recharging boost. Turret weapons do not benefit from power to weapons currently.
Did you not have enough turret operators for the 890's? There are several more turrets than were used in this. The 890 looks so cool when fully crewed and all turrets in operation.
Excellent video and had me on edge of my seat. I applied to be a member of your ORG because of the vision of FORGOTTEN HERALDS I hope to hear from you soon. GLAIVE_BLEVINSPACE
Here's the thing about repeaters... Yes they do less damage but they are still far more forgiving when fighting smaller ships. My general rule of thought when it comes to weapons in 3.23 and Master Modes. Repeaters are for punching down and Cannons are for punching up. If you mainly fight smaller much faster ships you are going to have much better luck hitting your targets with Repeaters. If you are mainly fighting larger slower targets than you Cannons are the way to go. The alpha damage of Cannons are great but it does you no good if you can't hit your target consistently.
It's interesting to me that for a ship with such a long lateral profile, so much of the Caterpillar's damage is concentrated at the front in the pilot weapons. Makes some sense from lore given Drake's manufacturer reputation, and does mean you're always trying to present the smallest profile of the ship to the enemy, but feels like it encourages trying to dogfight in something which is the epitome of the flying brick. Not sure if I'd like CIG to rework the weapon placement a bit as they continue to bring it closer to gold standard, or if I just need to git gud with it, but I'm excited to see engagements like this finally working and will have to think a lot harder about what that means for my own fleet doctrine.
Well... my 5 cents to this. Spacebreak when switching Modes... Decoupled still breakes to scm speed when you thrust... Its simply not how Physics work. Its unrealistic. Its Arcady. And don´t talk about Atmospheric flight.
I'm always surprised how much damage a Carrack will take. I have been attacked twice by single fighters and flown away with minimal damage. The fighters have complained about my running so they haven't realised I wasn't crewed. Great video, thank you👍🏼🫡
There is A LOT more I could go into on this topic but the video was running pretty long as is. That being said, if you would like me to cover other aspects of naval combat such as using different weapon loadout types with examples, non-mirror match scenarios, dealing with torpedoes and missile boats etc. Let me know below.
Remember when operating as a crew that communication is the number one ingredient for achieving positive results for the outcome of what ever task you choose to undertake.
If however, you are finding yourself flying alone and would like to change that, an organization can help you there. If you are looking for an organization, our group The Forgotten Heralds is currently recruiting.
Visit forgottenheralds.org to apply today.
Let me know if you found this video helpful. Are you planning on running large ships with friends or orgmates in the future? Are you also looking forward to the Polaris and much more that will (hopefully) be around the corner?
If you have any additional questions, feel free to leave them below.
-
Become a member and support the show!
th-cam.com/channels/eSMtWcJwjm6Dj4GrWFngqA.htmljoin
Join the Discord!
discord.gg/mRFMCANaCu
See you all in the next one.
o7
Communication is super important but I think something that always gets glossed over is letting your command rest, give an order and shut up for a minute or two to let your company tackle whatever the OBJ you've outlined is. There's a delicate balance of Holding the leash and letting your grip slack just a little. Don't think I didn't notice it happening here! Quite well done.
Definitely do more capital ship videos. There is really nothing else out there on this topic.
On the bridge layouts: for sub-capitals, I don't believe anything other than Pilot-Systems-Gunner or Pilot-Systems/Gunner. Any more and you lose precious real estate, when there's little enough crew aboard that you really don't need anything more complex than onboard radio comms to give commands. You're not there handling multiple channels as a captain and giving orders left and right to the point you are entirely dedicated to the role, a captain's chair will only make sense once capitals are added, which no doubt will require NPC crew that's going to be far less autonomous than people and you'll be requiring an interface to give them direction. At the same time, the person giving the orders to the crew does not need to be the one to pilot the ship even in a sub-capital: they could be the ones handling the power management since they are likely already looking out in third person to better see the position of the enemy to decide the best approach, or if access to gunnery simply gives control to the ship's ordnance instead of a more constantly demanding task like a turret (Looking at the Andromeda), they could be spending that time inbetween locks keeping strategic awareness.
I believe the 890j takes on the type of arrangement you see on real life large yatchs: only one or two captains are on retainer and they multitask the majority of the navigation, with maybe one engineer who doesn't need to keep appearences as much and can wear more practical work attire, making sure everything is in good order despite the overall low functional demand from the ship's systems. Yatchs usually just run along the coast and are not blue water vessels, they don't take extended trips where costant attention would be required unlike a cruise ship.
Yeah I think for subcapitals, assigning the captain to manage ship systems (at least from the bridge) makes the most sense rather than trying to both pilot and coordinate with gunners, escorts, and potentially in the future engineers running around inside the ship putting out fires and trying to fix things. Managing energy and shield distribution is low-tempo work, requiring many fewer choices per minute, relative to piloting or gunnery.
idk, i think the point of a captains chair is to be able to use the chair to go in third person. See the entire battlefield and their only focus would be to give directions to their crew about what to do.
This gameplay is giving me hope for the future. 😍
I can't even get my ship to spawn reliably. And when I jump in to the XT fight, I'm frozen in space for minutes. Then I either can't arm my missiles or fire my repeaters OR my ship refuses to move even after powering the ship/engines on and off. Playing since 3.23 came out has been 90 percent bullshit and bugs.
Pu is unplayable nothing new. Hopefully the first iteration of sm fixes things, the biggest tank to the servers is landing zones on cities so instanced hangers might help too
Silly question but did you installed the game on an M2 like recommended?
Besides some interaction delay issues, I was playing pretty smoothly last night, even with xt running.
@@MrRoblcoptersame
@@MrRoblcopterCan I ask what your specs are?
Some great footage here mate.
This was a really great watch, fun to finally see some full scale battles. Would loved to have seen more interior ship views and editing fighter cams in the mix
how do you get into AC lobbies? I don't have any friends in SC so when I go onto AC I can never play online matches because the lobby is always empty :( I wish they had matchmaking so you can just hop on and play / practice.
once armour get out a carrack vs carrack will take a week to end. size 4 are not a good size for battling large ships. the side turret should go size 5. it would still make it low damage but at least not no damage vs large targets. it got no pilot weapons so it should be personally top and sides size 5 and below size 4.
(TLDR: I think speed so be around the 600m/s range, and change the the downside of NAV mode, like no shields why)I'm still not a fan with master modes, i hate the artificial speed. Like you telling me a Boeing 747 can travel faster in atmosphere then ships in space(I'm talking about SCM mode). I get speed was very high, but they could've kept it around the 600 m/s range. Like this game has the ability to have 6 degree of freedom in space and more traditional 3 degree of freedom in atmosphere. The only benefit of MM is that fights will have a ending. But the biggest downside is their is no more skilled, it now you can have more speed and dps. Like there no such thing in space to drain you opponent energy or let him overshoot, or gain more energy using gravity.
Totally agree. Scm is just way too slow to be interesting for fighter v. fighter battles. There was so many more interesting maneuvers and depth before MM.
No shields going from scm to nav is kind of understandable to prevent ppl just having an easy out. Maybe giving just enough starting shield would be a good middle ground. But no shields arriving at a quantum jump is rough especially when there’s lag and people are waiting to gank you before you get control of your ship. Idk that’s a tricky thing to balance.
The speed was artificially limited before master modes as well, just at a higher value. It was just as unrealistic as now. In reality you should be able to accelerate your ship as long as you burn your engines. But that never was the vision of this game. Master modes may not be the optimal solution and I expect further changes but at least now the feel of space combat is more close to what we are used from pop culture space combat. Sure it's not realistic but the more realistic you make it the more it becomes Kerbal Space Program.
Really interesting!
nice footage got a new sub
I'm here to re-enlist.
Drake Ironclad with a lot Mirai Fury on board will be fun. ;)
Yes because I want war thunder/World of warships/planes in my SPACE Sim…. MMs is a sham
You speak for a minority, proper Large Scale Naval Combat has been a want from the community, and promise from CIG for a long time.
Besides MM doesn't cripple your single person Fighter experience, learn the new system, its quite fun for Player Bounties imo.
(And yes Yogi has admitted that the Fighter V Fighter experience needs work, this is not the final iteration of MM, Design is very iterative and they want and need Data to bring the system to its full potential)
This will not be the last iteration on MMs - but personally, I think that it both adds some strategic choice AND accessability for the majority of players.
Yeah how dare they make us think strategically about our positioning and role in a large scale ship battle.
@@kyoko4651 mmmm.... I have a video of CIG promises that beg to differ if you're interested. Or you could do some actual research.
@@kyoko4651 MM absolutely cripple the single fighter experience.
I'm tired of seeing noobs speak like they know what they're talking about...
When you get better, and fight better pilots, and end up completely stuck in a nose to nose DPS race, we'll see what you think of Master Modes.
MM = console mode
no it does not.
Top 10 most insightful comments of 2024 right here.
Its amazing how different this plays. And all they did was force us to slow down.
I have very much enjoyed my random dozen or so combat encounters now. I hated combat before.
We have a ways to go yet before we see good balance though.
I'm surprised they made such drastic changes to many things across the board in its first iteration.
A really solid, informative video.
Thanks! Glad you found it useful!
I think Harbinger1 was right. I should ditch trying to string my own org along, and just join the Heralds. This is all I wish mine was.This training looks so cool. And yes, I am making sure all my landings are as cinematic as can be. 😉
damm this is looking good getting me existed for the future of this game
890J, while its the only viable analog for its class right now, is 100% not even close to what even a non-luxury frigate is gonna be like in operation(s).
That being said, Good Vid! The rest of it was quite enjoyable.
30:50 felt like the enemy caterpillar was doing okay up until it charged forward and fumbled the bag at the end.
Dude, I dunno... SC is trying a little too hard to just be Star Wars. Multi-crew ships just fight like bigger slower single-seaters but with turrets lol A contemporary DDG from our 2024 era could solo an entire server's worth of SC multi-crew ships, I don't see anything 'scifi' about this at all.
IF CIG wants a little inspiration, they could maybe look to The Expance for a little more variety in combat loops and scope. Maybe toss in some rail guns for medium range? Missiles for long range engagements? Some electronic warfare, additional layers of gameplay? Guns are fine if the fight devolves into a close-range brawl, but there should be a couple more layers above that, not just 'turrets go burrrrrt lol" and that's it. We're in space, we have a ton of room to fight. Why does combat have to be everyone fighting in a broom closet? lol
Amazing video, man!
I always wanted to see a real 1 HammerHead (7 people) vs 7 fighters, battle.
In theory HH should almost always win.
great video. a lot of my friends ask what multicrew combat is like, and its hard to produce an encounter or find decent content of it. solid representation.
I am wanting to get into being a bomber pilot and so getting involved in capital ship and fleet engagements sounds really exciting.
real stuff here 😍 nice vid regardless that this is a long one, but man good collection
I wouldn't hate a 3D experience of World of Warships.
As an Eclipse fan, this looks like a dream come true.
Would love to see how bombers fit into engagements like this! I think having to defend against bombers will give the escorts something to watch for and balance against fighter to fighter combat
I'm curious how was your power/energy levels on the 890 Jump? You were firing non-stop, I'm curious if you were able to keep up with both shields, engines and weapons with the energy/power available.
Full power to shields the entire time. Engines only help with boost rotation and recharging boost. Turret weapons do not benefit from power to weapons currently.
Awesome video, best one about multicrew battle I've seen.
noob question: what are anti-material weapons?
Anti-capital ship weapons. (Cannons, mostly, in Star Citizen)
@@KevinRiggle gotcha, ty
@@rayfighter yw!
Did you not have enough turret operators for the 890's? There are several more turrets than were used in this. The 890 looks so cool when fully crewed and all turrets in operation.
I always appreciate videos explaining how to perform in any given Flight Model. But Master Modes itself is terrible. Worst CIG decision ever.
Excellent video and had me on edge of my seat. I applied to be a member of your ORG because of the vision of FORGOTTEN HERALDS I hope to hear from you soon. GLAIVE_BLEVINSPACE
Stockholm Syndrome: The Videogame
i don't play star citizen for master modes.
Fuck yes this is a fantastic vid talking through all the ways to do big ship fights
Here's the thing about repeaters... Yes they do less damage but they are still far more forgiving when fighting smaller ships. My general rule of thought when it comes to weapons in 3.23 and Master Modes. Repeaters are for punching down and Cannons are for punching up. If you mainly fight smaller much faster ships you are going to have much better luck hitting your targets with Repeaters. If you are mainly fighting larger slower targets than you Cannons are the way to go. The alpha damage of Cannons are great but it does you no good if you can't hit your target consistently.
It's interesting to me that for a ship with such a long lateral profile, so much of the Caterpillar's damage is concentrated at the front in the pilot weapons. Makes some sense from lore given Drake's manufacturer reputation, and does mean you're always trying to present the smallest profile of the ship to the enemy, but feels like it encourages trying to dogfight in something which is the epitome of the flying brick. Not sure if I'd like CIG to rework the weapon placement a bit as they continue to bring it closer to gold standard, or if I just need to git gud with it, but I'm excited to see engagements like this finally working and will have to think a lot harder about what that means for my own fleet doctrine.
This is sooo much better than it used to be.
That Carrack when fully crewed, wooooo! Talk about forward facing firepower!!!
Well... my 5 cents to this. Spacebreak when switching Modes... Decoupled still breakes to scm speed when you thrust... Its simply not how Physics work. Its unrealistic. Its Arcady. And don´t talk about Atmospheric flight.
If MM did NOT have the "completely lose ALL your shields" thing, making them stay up but not able to regenerate. That would make MM tolerable.
I'm always surprised how much damage a Carrack will take. I have been attacked twice by single fighters and flown away with minimal damage. The fighters have complained about my running so they haven't realised I wasn't crewed. Great video, thank you👍🏼🫡
"Arrival of MM" -whut? 20 hours ago? Man you missed like entire last month.
Impressive, Hornblower would be at home in the future methinks!
Mother of god.... fire missles...
They were not working