Winchester WWII 50 AT rifle
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ย. 2024
- / forgottenweapons
David Marshall Williams was hired by the Winchester company in 1939, and would have a hand in a number of major projects during his 10-year stint with the company, although best known for the M1 Carbine. The Carbine was an offshoot of the Winchester G30 and G30M rifles, which would also evolve into the G30R and Winchester Automatic Rifle. Another offshoot using this same basic mechanism was this undesignated .50 BMG semiautomatic antitank rifle developed by Winchester during World War II.
This rifle, like its developmental precursors, uses a two-lug, Garand type rotating bolt and a Williams gas tappet short stroke action. It has a 10-round detachable box magazine.
Although I have not found a testing report, the gun was apparently tested by the Canadian military and performed quite well. It was never purchased or put into serial production, however, most likely because as an antitank rifle the .50 BMG cartridge was not effective by the end of World War II.
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handguards made from solid steel. it protects the rifle when the tank shoots back
The only anti-tank rifle that is a tank.
Hyperdead_Goat protects the gun but dude goes boom
ah, i thougt it was to give the gunner a little protection from enemy fire
If you out of ammunition you can still use the weapon to beat the shit out of the tank.
Why do you need more than 5 shots you think the tank is going to shoot back?
*Barrett M82:* "Who the hell are you!?"
*Winchester .50 AT rifle:* "Watch your muzzle brake, sonny, I'm old enough to be your grandfather."
Emiel Booth he’s old enough to be the great grandfather if he played his cards right!
:.
One of the best gun jokes I ever heard
I haven't heard many
Ok BOOMer...
the fact that ruby has a 50 cal as her weapon and that she is you profile pic makes this comment 10x better
The rifle arrived today and I dialed in the scope just a couple hours ago th-cam.com/users/postUgkxQt2uORDRfFOVSrO4idv4B90ThT6EOnEL . I haven’t shot with a scope in probably 25 years. The X on the left was my target. (the shot almost in the bullseye on the right X was my father in laws first shot after I made adjustments) The two shots circled are my first 2 shots. Then I brought it down - shot once. Then brought it over to the left. From there zeroed it in to dead center. This all was from 25 yards out. Follow instructions carefully when mounting the scope. So far I'm very happy with the purchase.
Japanese tanks.
Japanese used jungle tanks - those could be killed with .50 on a vehicle.
well observed
Still, it's not like they didn't have M2s anywhere they would have brought this thing, and I bet they would rather fully automatic .50 than semi automatic .50.
stikfigzxD This seems more man portable and you would not need to worry about the belt dragging dirt into the action.
It's kinda like BAR vs M1919.
Except the BAR is shit and this isin't
+leonardo tavares dardenne BAR wasn't bad as it was obsolete. The FN MAG partially borrowed it's designed from the BAR. The French and Polish variations were beautiful in performance.
What? No bayonet lug!
LOL!
this thing is so massive you can throw it at your enemys face and kill him
It *IS* a bayonet. It's just blunt and shaped like a rifle.
What? No grenade launcher? :(
hey it at least has the deadly shoulder thing that goes up and a clipazine that can shoot 30 rounds in a second....
I am actually very impressed that the Engineers at Winchester where able to get a Semi-auto .50 down to 25 pounds in the 1940's, if I am not mistaken that makes it four or five pounds lighter than the M82.
Yet they managed to make it look like it weighs half a ton. My first reaction was "Wow, they didn't even try to save weight on that thing". But I guess the unnecessarily chunky looking parts like the bolt handle and safety lever are actually not solid chunks of steel.
Yeah, that's actually a good bit lighter than the modern Barrett .50 line.
The shoulder could have been lightened quite some (it just has to be stronger than a beefy gi´s shoulder) and the safety lever could have shed a few ounces, too. Bolt and op rod have to keep their weight for controlling recoil-
Considering the XM500 is supposed to be lighter than EITHER the M82/M107 at 26 pounds it still got it's ass beat by a gas operated (which is an inherently heavier action) rifle from the 1940's which like swiss said it looks like it weighs a ton.
Someone (doesn't matter if it's Winchester or a 3rd party) needs to make exact and lightened copies of this rifle and start selling em, the military tests proved it's a reliable weapon make it and beat everyone elses .50 rifles.
D8W2P4 The thing with that is I'm pretty sure the only thing keeping this rifle from dislocating your shoulder is said weight, since it doesn't have any of the recoil dampening measures of modern .50 rifles.
Watching Ian pull the charging handle and having that monster bolt slide back so damn smooth was oddly gratifying
I believe this gun was designed for the Space Marines that never came to be. XD
I think i know why spacemarines AND the gears would not use it ... no chainsaw bayonet ;)
Adeptus Astartes power armor can usually withstand fire from Heavy Stubbers though. I don't think they would use weapons can't reliably pen their own
armor.
Evidence of a WWII grimdark Canadian-American super soldier program? Maybe...
Nah, this would be a nice precursor to the Bolter for humans. Bolter is 20mm
Destroyox
I hate to be that guy, but when I was a kid I read every single book (120+ novels) and piece of short fiction relating to WH40k and it's just about the least useful knowledge base it's possible to have as an adult, but Bolters are .75 calibre rifles, not 20mm cannons. There are 25+ variations on just the rifle platform within the lore, which have various differing calibres and loads.
Tbh though it's a bit of a moot point because the lore doesn't really specify the size of the rounds for the larger ordinance like the heavy bolter - which is just said to fire "fist-sized rounds" , although the smaller stuff, like the Bolt Pistol is specified to fire .50 cal rounds.
If you want any more useless info on the WH40k universe hit me up mang
California : you can only have a capacity of 10 rounds haha!!
Me: buys this gun
.50 BMG is specifically banned in California
@@Shaun_Jones .416 barret
.416 is ballistically Superior to 50bmg anyway. Faster, better B.C. and is accurate to point of aim at longer distances.
Nico P. To be honest id rather go 50 cal then the .416
@@Shaun_Jones 458.
It's the sort of gun that look like it'd be an experience to fire. The sort of 'experience' that involves a lengthy visit to the chiropractor afterwards.
A chiropractor would do more damage to you ;)
So it's a gun you only get to shoot twice?
...yeah, once for each shoulder if you forgot using your spare socks & shirts (or someone elses...,) for padding.
Just a 50bmg lots of people own .50 bmg firearm, not this one but mordern day, ii reload my .50bmg but i think around 5 bucks a shell..
I read that the Boyes could push the firer back about a yard,lying prone.
Believe it or not, it's lighter than the Barret .50/M82. Haha.
The Barret "Light" Fifty, at 29.7 Lbs.
Jonathan Charles
It looks way lighter than this giant hunk of metal though, neh? :p
An M82 walks into the room... "Daddy, is that you?"
I think that's because of the recoil mitigation systems in the Barret
+A. Lampman But does this german rifle perform better then a m82 ?
Winchester could have called it the W.A.T. Failed opportunity there.
Lol W.A.T.
"Sullivan! The panzers are coming! Go get the gun!"
"What gun?"
"Yeah, go get it!"
"... what gun?"
"Yes, that's right."
"I'm sorry, I don't follow"
"Oh forget it, just go let that chinese guy know the tanks are coming, he knows where it is"
"Who?"
"Yeah."
This comment thread just made this entire video 100% more enjoyable.
Yes
You can't just throw around terms like ".30 Carbine chambered Thompson sub machine gun" without doing a video on it!
He definitely did! It's already out there but its inclusion is none the less hilarious
Bendix-Hyde?
Who'd a thunk it; an anti-tank carbine. XD
squirrel gun
Say hello to MY LITTLE FRIEND!!! ;)
Bryan Shouse damn right baby!! More reliable than the light 50. Also the same makers of the M1 Garand and the M1 carbine
A door knocker !
My Testosterone levels go way up observing and hearing the magazine inserted
God, that tiny P17 rear sight looks like it doesn't know what it's doing there
no kidding
I dig the Mike Stoklasa picture
really? because I thought it was an inanimate object.
Holret _you're_ an inanimate object
+TheGoldenCaulk Ooooooh SNAP! XD
My Dad was on the team testing this rifle for the Canadian Army in 1944. When he spoke of it there was always a lot of Scotch being consumed.
It absolutely was not without recoil. All metal construction. Enough said.
Damn, I was hoping you would accidentally disassemble this one, too.
That would be cool
Accidentally?
+OneTallOrder Not on purpose.
+Andrei Zedlav Not on Purpose?
Not on Purpose.
If only they'd realized the concept of anti-materiel rifles that early.
yeah, if this thing had gotten into the right hands, the US sniper program would have had a leap forward by about 30-ish years
The number of m1 variants Winchester made in ww2 is astonishing.
It may not have been effective against late WWII tank armor, but it would still be a helluva siege engine.
Amazing. That gun is so boxy it looks like it was made in the 80s. I wonder if the state of American optics in WWII was good enough to be able to turn the Winchester-Williams AT rifle into a more portable very long range sniping platform than an M2. Seeing your officer or fellow gun crew member being sniped out of nowhere by a .50 BMG ought to be pretty demoralizing.
I think disintegrated instead of sniped
Let's not get into the semantics of fine red mist, shall we?
Holtz agreed
Latmover yes
Now if we want to talk demoralizing the enemy, imagine the madness that would have happened if the russians developed a sniper out of the ptrd-41. think a .50 BMG is scary, wait till you have a 14.5x105mm round blow your commanders upper body into bits.
That is without a doubt the coolest of all the antitank rifles, it’s a shame they didn’t go into production because that’s one that anyone could own without all the extra NFA paperwork
Holy God man, it's 50. combat rifle, in words of that one dude from Robocop "I'd buy that for a dollar!"
It's like an M82, only several decades early. A shame this didn't see more use - a lightened version could've been useful as a long-range anti-materiel/sniper rifle in Korea and Vietnam.
As far as lightening, this gun is actually lighter than the barrett m82 rifle
That's exactly what I thought. It must have been quite accurate at long ranges. And mounting it on a small reconnaissance vehicle does make some sense too.
"Ehi, i have a unique gun here. Let's use another unique gun for comparison!"
I kind of want to see more about that 30 carbine Thompson.
That video will come.
Yay!
30 caliber Thompson? that would be cool!
Yeah, I was like "you can't just show me a .30 caliber Thompson and not talk about it." It's cool to see that a video is coming though.
Forgotten Weapons by the way what is about PTRS-41-will there be any kind of video on them?
By the way I am going to purchase one PTRS for myself!
“Semiautomatic”
“Antitank”
I am already engaged
I bet a whole lot of viewers were very disappointed when they realised that this is a museum piece and not an auction lot.
in some ways it's ahead of its time. it would have made a great sniper/anti-materiel rifle like the Barrett rifles in use today.
4:10 .30 carbine Thompson,can do that review?
It will publish in a few weeks.
I assume that you only made an accidental spelling error. Or if you are joking considering your name "wrong rifle".
But it is .30 Carbine.
I can't recall ever seeing anything besides the M1/ M2 Carbine chambered in .30 carbine.
Was the .30 Carbine round ever popular (besides M1) or have any notable firearms that were chamber for it?
I believe there's a Ruger Blackhawk in .30 Carbine, and a bunch of stuff like that.
Some highly-skilled machinist wasted a week or two creating that.
He was probably paid very handsomely. So I wouldn’t call it wasted.
This is by far one of the coolest guns reviewed here
Did Ian say ".30 Carbine chambered Thompson Sub-Machine Gun"?!?!?!
It's your grandaddy's Barret. Too bad it was obsolete by the time it was tested. It could've led to a bunch of pretty neat stories. The only thing I could see it being useful for in an AT use is to use it against vehicle optics.
And those Japanese tin can tanks
You could still shoot the engine blocks of armored cars and trucks
this thing would still have been a perfectly usable anti-material rifle.
Jesus Murphy at that magazine. Also, that weight is kinda impressive. 50 BMG and it only weighs a few more lbs than a BAR.
grumpybill well,that is..So I really wonder why didn't it come to a mass production..🤔
+John Sheppard
the demand vanished with advancements in tank designs. Also germans never considered them anti _tank_ rifles, they were anti _armor_ rifles. They still can do a number on APCs.
TheArklyte agree..
By the way as I know with my personal experience in real life ground defence/attacks stuff(sorry if not to good with terms-I am just a Russian guy living in Canada😇)- the best possible defence against APCs(if you don't have a tank,which is unbeatable ultimate APC killer which can annihilate them even without shooting at all 😉)-is PTRS-41 and any other 14.5×114 stuff!Once I was in Debalzevo we burned a lot of APCs with that beast!
By the way here,in Canada I am trying to purchase one-so soon enough I will probably get it-or as I already paid the KPVT barrel and will receive it on Thursday-so just possibly I will finally just build a magazine fed 14.5×114 bolt action super accurate rifle-using some PTRD parts and some other stuff just self manufactured...
The thing is to make it finally a 14.5 designated sniper rifle because they somehow don't even exist..🤔
John Sheppard
прям вечер охренительных историй-_-
TheArklyte ?
Wait a second, where the hell is the bipod?
looks like it belongs in the fallout games.
I hope Bethesda will implement several "forgotten" weapons in the new fallout,but this will never happen
*****
we can put ion a mod request via nexus
+Chad Barrett do it please
*****
I am but just one nerd. if all the nerds watching this and have fallout 4 and an nexus account support this idea. Then we shall start a thread and show some demand for it. Doesn't mean it will happen though maybe a mod maker will want to.
*****
I haven't had any issues
Shooting Boys from the shoulder was a nightmare, maybe that was a motivation to look for something different?
Perfect for home defense, against bears. Or plinking, with steel drums.
great for groundhogs..kill em and bury em with one shot
I wanna see someone go Rambo with that thing!
Ah yes jerry miculek
are you going to cover that weird 30 carbine thompson?
Yes, I have a video on it that hasn't posted yet.
+Forgotten Weapons Will you show the Winchester light Rifle from the 50's?
Cool. If (IF) that would have worked, it would have been a very nice SMG.
Is this the first semi-auto .50BMG rifle?
No, Springfield experimented with semi auto M2s in the 1930s.
I should have specified: shoulder fired rifle EG Barrett M82
But does a semi-auto M2 constiute a rifle?
Perhaps you could point me in a direction for some info on those?
The BAR has been around since WW I if I recall correctly.
The BAR is a 30-06, not a .50BMG.
I have a feeling this will be featured in Battlefield V someday in the future
@@TheFirstCurse1 here I was hoping we could air drop over Normandy...
*THE TANK KILLER*
also everything is just oversized m1 carbine its so satisfying to pull that lock thing. and BIG SAFETY BUTTON
I'm pretty sure THIS is what you should be doing a run and gun video with...
I start thinking abou made this beuty in Fallout 4 as mod. Heavy semi rifle for power armor build?
Awesome video. Sometimes I wish these places would let you fire the good condition ones. Obviously, I know that's not strictly possible; however it's exquisite examples like this one that make me want to see you behind the gun in super sssslllloooooooowwwww mmmmooooottttiiiooooon
Watch an M1 carbine firing in slow motion at 350x zoom.
I was thinking the same thing with this one. From the sound of the parts moving, this one sounds to be in perfect shape. Well machined. I bet it would fire a full magazine with no trouble.
Very cool, all that tool steel. The craftsmanship and milling work, love the .45 cal looking pistol grip. A little trip to the deep bluing or nc3 tank.
Man I wonder if you could have put a scope on it to make a sniper rifle. I'd expect it to be pretty accurate.
Japanese tanks likely would have been vulnerable to this gun, at least I think. Then again, they could've just thrown a rock at the things and done about the same amount of damage.
thompson chambered in .30 carbine? i am extremely curious. I wish you did a video on that. it would be effectively an assault rifle too!
th-cam.com/video/lW-IjtiVthc/w-d-xo.html
Great thanks!
USMC raiders were using AT rifles in the Pacific during WW2 to great effect, so War Dept. may have been looking for a replacement for the Boy rifles you referred to. Japanese tanks were lighter armored, not to mention use against armored cars, pillboxes, etc.
I think That stock folding down is how you would stand it up on a rack or lean it against a wall.
I used to live in Red Lodge just an hour up North in Montana. There's a gun store there, Ian, the owner of the place is actually the son (Mike) of the person who ended up donating many of the firearms found at the Cody museum when he died. I'm sure Mike would be thrilled to meet you.
Is there anything worth mentioning about that .30 carbine Thompson, or is it just a 1928a1 scaled up?
I was wondering about that Thompson too. It would be cool if Auto Ordnance (Kahr) would produce a semi automatic (closed bolt) version!
+WAQWBrentwood dont they have one already?
+gunfuego yeah you can buy thompson SBRs these days, but in .45 acp offcourse.
They have .45ACP Only AFAIK.
thats just andre the giant's custom fitted BAR smh fake gun historians
I am amazed they didn't try and sell it to the Australians for going against Japanese tanks.
It might actually have been of some use for that, given the relatively weak armour of Japanese tanks.
I saw this in a book of Winchester rifles and I was always curious how it worked. They only had a one paragraph blip and a black and white photo about it. Thank you very much Ian!
Literally over 2k thumbs up and one single thumb down
Fire it next time Ian “YOU KNOW YOU WANT TO” see if the recoil dampening spring system works ............ we all know you wanted to really .
Try imaging if this rifle made it to the service with the US military in WW2. It would be the Best AT rifle compared to the boys, PTRS, P-39 and Other AT Rifles
So many people I know think the Barrett M107 is the first 50 BMG sniper rifle-if you can even call it that
it kind of reminds me of the Barret 50 cal
Kinda sad this didn't end up in BF1 or BFV, Although it looks like they would've had a hard time not having it super op 😂
For some reason I don't quite believe that American military leaders and, in this case, engineers / rifle makers fully understood what was and wasn't obsolete during WWII as the technologies and equipment progressed. In the end it was enough, and good enough, of an effort considering both the Japanese and German reductions in manufacturing and/or resources.
some AT rifles were used in counter sniping, so maybe they just wanted a big gun for snipers?
then again, they did built bazooka... and made that by truckloads so evidently, they probably do know what works in general... but some among them may not necessarily be up to date...
and to be fair though, AT rifle was still sufficient to knock out light tanks and armored cars at the time... (or tanks like in the Pacific theater where Japanese tanks have very little armor) and there were a lot of those targets around...
bazooka of course were probably just much more effective at taking them out than this...
***** probably because they can actually carry this one on foot and use it without having to set one up like an M2?, i mean think of GIs having to setup in a built up area... it's a lot easier to have guys hidden than vehicles...
of course it's even easier to just carry bazookas and instead of just being able to knock light vehicles, they'd actually be able to knock or at least disable tanks too that way
You can certainly make the case for Winchester - they developed the thing on their own hook, and submitted it for consideration. Ordnance wasn't looking for an Anti-Tank Rifle, with the Bazooka already in the field, and the 57mm and 75mm recoilless rifles going into production.
Consider that a U.S. Infantry Battalion went into the line with semi-automatic rifles, mortars and MGs at all levels, and radio communication down to the squad level. (The deadliest sidearm is a walkie-talkie on the Artillery Net). They were getting food that, while it wasn't the greatest tasting stuff, wasn't going to go bad and could survive being stored. They travelled by truck for operational movement. Artillery and armor support was so plentiful that it was pretty much guaranteed.
The Germans were using bolt-action 98Ks, and I'll grant the GPMG concept for the MG34 and 42, but squad/platoon firepower was limited. Anywhere they went, it was by foot, and supplies and supports were hauled by horses. A German unit was followed by a herd of Cows & Sheep, so that the Field Butchers could take it off the hoof, since they couldn't ship it without it spoiling. (No field refrigerators). If you weren't a Panzer Grenadier, the only tanks you were likely to see were Shermans and T34s.
It's all about the choices that need to be made - where the tradeoffs are.
You should see if they will let you fire it for "research purposes".
I'm not a gun guy. I don't own a single gun. My interest in them is purely from a historical and engineering point of view. I am, in fact, an advocate for much stronger gun laws. If you disagree with me on that topic, that's just fine. I'm not going to argue with you in this forum.
I'm just posting this to let Ian know that I really enjoy these videos. He does such a great job of articulating a weapon's origin, history, mechanical workings, and eccentricities. I have yet to start one of these videos and not finish because I lost interest.
Good job, Ian.
Noone cares about you stance on gun laws. Fuck off
It seems to me that if you actually fired some weapons, you would discover why we are gun nuts. It's not about hurting anyone, it's about the satisfaction of accurate, rapid, shooting.
The thrill of noise or lack of. Commradery with others, ( Except for the occasional jerk). The ability to build your own weapon and ammo safely! The science involved is so educational. Which you mentioned and is a good start for you but only scratches the emotional high. And anyone can participate whether your handicapped, youth, women, weak, , guns are the tools that can make any David stronger than any Goliath or mugger, or Rapist, or molester, or racist or murderer or invader. Try it you'll love it.
I hope Battlefield V and Call of Duty WWII added this Weapons in the game. Even know they weren't in the Service back in WW2
Ian, thanks a lot for your fantastic videos, I love them!!
I agree with you that Anti-Tank rifles were obsolete in 1943 - but if you consider it to be used against light vehicles, barricades and stuff like that it makes perfect sense.
Maybe it was called Anti-Tank rifle because people knew what it is and that you can use it for a lot of purposes. Maybe this is the Grandfather of the Light Fifty which is, by the way usually carried in parts by four men. Maybe it was the same idea behind this rifle which would give sense to the folding stock, it might work when the trigger group is gone. A M2 is much much heavier than this thing (~100kg vs. 13kg) and not intended to be man-portable. Also, you need lots and lots of heavy ammunition, barrels, a tripod and a ton of other stuff - unlike this thing. All it needs is a few dozen rounds.
Also, it is way easier to "shoot and scoot" before the enemy is able to pinpoint his fire to your position. And a semi is way more effective in most cases. Furthermore, it gives you a way smaller signature and the precision is way better - even without a scope.
However there would have been one good use for these, against Japanese bunkers in the Pacific.
I love this combination of old school, straightforward engineering and high quality machining. This one could be a nice prop in an action movie.
Awesome mini series! What a finale! That thing is beautiful, and you can tell how well machined it is as you run the bolt and safety, as well as the stock release lever/button assembly.
That thing is awesome. Do you know if it was very accurate?
Oh man that shoulder stock does not look like it would do you any favours in the comfort area. Wrap that thing up with some cloth and duct tape and there ya go a nice cushion to absorb some recoil instead of sending it straight back down the spine lmao
Aaah...The custom made M1 Carbine for chuck norris
And if all else fails, the magazine can be used as a melee weapon.
The noise when cycling the bolt. CLUNK CLUNK CLUNK
Ideal squirrel gun, if you live in Texas.
So this the gun Seras Victoria actually used.
The m1 Carbine's older, steroid abusing, brother.
We need this in battlefield 5 🤣🤣
Imagine how big the enbloc clip is for this thing
This little beauty will surely clear those pesky squirrels out of your nut trees! Though I do think it would tend to cheese off the neighbor's just a bit. >_
Derpy, what are you doing here?
Looks like something from Fallout... So epic! I'd love to see the solothurn s18/1000 covered in depth.
Also could the "folding" stock be a consideration for use in a vehicle?
I swear I saw this gun in Life Is Strange Before The Storm and suddenly this pops up in my recommended?
Damn I only played the first one and I definetely didn't see any AT rifles!
What would really be interesting would be a comparison of this weapon and the M 82A1 Barrett on the gun range in a shoot off
The fold down shoulder plate is for firing from the hip "John Wayne" style if you have to run and fire at the same time. At least that's what I thought of.
anti tank rifles where designed to damage the treads of a tank not the tank itself. A steel core 50 BMG was more than capable of breaking a link of track at the time.
? AT Rifles were developed to punch holes in tanks, as armour grew thicker they mostly dropped out of favour as they could not penetrate.
Due to a lack of anything better some soldiered on long past their designed role and so new tactics grew around them, like shooting at optics, long range shooting, and all the lighter armoured vehicles still in use.
The Germans developed and fitted Shurtzen (side skirts), later in the war to counter Soviet PTRS/PTRD crews who could still penetrate the Panzer IV, StuG III and early Panthers sides (at close range).
Cit appears to me that rifle was decades ahead of its time
Is that entire thing a machined steel forging? How heavy is that monster? Was it built to be dropped on the enemy from a bomber?
Does it use modified B.A.R magazines?
:D
That Thompson .30 carbine sub-machine gun was a first for me to see as well. Thanks.
I love to hear Ian grunt when he's moving it around. Really makes you realize how hefty this baby is!
Can you get that thumb thing with that one, too?
somebody should make a repro of this, i want one.
Legend says they named it *The Chiropractor's Dream*
Is that the sniper the Master Chief uses in Halo?🤣🤣 Geez that thing is huge 😮
Thanks for showing this. I was just reading about this in my recent NRA Magazine article about Winchester.
garand thumb from hell
So this thing is lighter than an m82/107??!