Do You Really HAVE TO Learn Drawing Before You can Try Painting ??!
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 พ.ย. 2022
- ERRATUM : Correcting my mistake at 00:23 : It wasn't written in 1873 but 1924 ! (1873 is the Author's birth)
"Oil Painting Techniques and Materials" Harold Speed
a.co/d/7qugzSh
I’ve always said or implied that you should first study drawing before you can move on to painting but when I think about it, is it really necessary? The response to this question is crucial, especially if you're learning art on your own. And you probably heard, like me, that drawing comes first but now I remember what an artist called Harold Speed wrote in 1873 in his book called “Oil Painting Techniques and Materials”, listen to this:
“Instead of the student being trained first in drawing, and after acquiring a certain proficiency being allowed to start painting, as if one naturally grew out of the other, I would suggest that each of the three divisions of the subject-Form, Tone, and Colour-be studied simultaneously from the start. They do not grow out of each other, but rather into each other from three different centres of perception that cover the whole ground of visual phenomena.”
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About me (bio) :
Website :
www.florentfarges.com
I am an artist living and working in France. I learned the techniques of the Atelier of the Nineteenth century and now I try to share some of my knowledge with the rest of the world, because I think that beauty still has an important role to play in artistic creation. I do mostly drawing and oil painting, and my goal is always to provide techniques, thoughts and explanations that can be useful to anyone, from beginners to more advanced artists.
The material I use most of the time (not necessarily in this video) :
Drawing
✓ Kneaded eraser
✓ Plumb line (DIY)
✓ Small mirror
✓ An old synthetic brush
✓ Masking tape
✓ Cutter
✓ Sandpaper or sanding block
✓ Mahlstick or Hand rest (DIY)
✓ Level ruler
Graphite
✓ Pencils 2H, HB and 2B
Charcoal
✓ If available: Nitram charcoals (H, HB and B)
✓ Square charcoals
Black and white chalk
✓ Sketch pencil Conté white
✓ Square Conté noir : HB and 2B
✓ Chalk or pencil holder
✓ Pencil sketch Conté Pierre noire : H and HB
Sanguine
✓ Sketch pencil Conté : Blood and blood Medici
✓ Crayon Polychromos Faber-Castel : sanguine
✓ Sketch pencil Conté white
Oil painting
Palette
(Extra-fine paint, recommended brands depending on availability: Sennelier, Lefranc Bourgeois, Winsor and Newton, Royal Talens Rembrandt, Blockx, Michael Harding, Gamblin)
✓ Titanium White PW6
✓ Flake White (or substitute) PW1
✓ Cadmium Yellow light (or "lemon") PY35
✓ Yellow Ochre PY42
✓ Raw Umber PBr7
✓ Transparent Red Oxyde PR101
✓ Burnt Umber PBr7
✓ Venetian Red PR101
✓ Pyrrole Red PR255
✓ Quinacridone Rose PV19
✓ Quinacridone Magenta PV19
✓ Ultramarine Blue PB29
✓ Mars Black PBk11
✓ Cobalt Teal Blue (turquoise light) PG50
✓ Phthalo green warm PG36
Brushes
✓ Filbert hog bristle and Synthetic sizes n° 4, 6, 8, 10 and 12
✓ Flat Synthetic brushes (same size)
✓ Round sable brush or round Kolinsky sable n° 4, 8, 10, 12 (from the size of the nail (about one inch) or synthetic imitation
Medium
✓ Linseed stand oil
✓ Odorless mineral spirits
✓ Or Alkyd medium (Liquin, Galkyd, Flow'n'Dry etc.)
✓ Safflower oil
Surface
✓ Linen canvas, fine grain universal coating
✓ For studies : Canson oil-acrylic oil paper Figueras
Others
✓ Palette
✓ Sponge and spalter brushes
✓ Palette knife in the shape of a water drop, no souldering
✓ A few small pots, containers, jars...
✓ Paper towels
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#art #painting #inspiration
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Thanks for watching !
So, tell me... Did you start with Drawing or with Painting !
Ben en fait par un peut tout, bon je débute depuis 2 mois le dessin et la peinture,là j’ai commencé avec les planches de bargues et puis en parallèle j’essaye de faire de paysage à l’huile sans trop de succès.
Painting. Quickly realized that I wasn’t happy with the results because I needed to learn to draw… I worked out a system using learning theory. If working on colour, I would trace an image of a 2d painting. Circles, squares etc in it. No form required. If I was working on tone, I traced and painted in only one hue. I think what I wanted, being new to art and teaching myself was a nice painting. I wanted to feel happy at the end, even if more work was needed. By eliminating all except the one area of focus, I could obtain a satisfactory end result. One day I realized that my sketches were coming together, I started merging drawing with painting. Self taught, 2 years. I say it’s really important to focus on one skill at a time,to “ let the rest go to focus on one thing.”
Drawing first, photography for a number of years, a deep dive back into drawing and now, at last, painting. Painting changes the way you draw and visa-versa.
If you asked, then I will tell you. Of course I've started with Drawing since age 8. But picked up oils late at 34 (now I'm 37). Yet without too many details, for I could write a tedious book out of it... when I first touched oils, I had a drawing done first in charcoal, only once for a large portrait of my wife, grisallie, etc.. Then came drawing with the help of horizontals and verticals only with monochrome paint, mostly sienna or raw umber. However, nowadays I find that a primary charcoal drawing (not fixed afterward with anything) must be as perfect as one could do, and then have the painting started on the solid fundation! While drawing, ones pays perfect attention and becomes familiar with value and the features of the face of course, the "study" turnes out to be the finished Painting.
Both of them:D
I would have benefitted from an in-depth study of drawing first, no question. But I started in art 2 1/2 years ago, which is to say at age 65. I might easily have died before I ever got what I wanted to do and pick up a brush and paints. I've taken a bit of a shortcut, and the quality of my paintings has no doubt suffered, but the joy I have in doing what I actually want to do outweighs all that. I'm not trying to be famous or remembered, I just want to paint for as long as I can...
its so nice to hear that you were able to pick up something completely new to you and its turned into something fun and fulfilling for you ! :D
@@zainjafry2658 Thank you! I wish I had found art a lot earlier, but at least I found it eventually!
@@zainjafry2658 Thank you! I wish I had found art a lot earlier, but at least I found it eventually!
I’m inspired! Thanks for sharing. Best of luck and I wish you many years of happy painting!
@@andrep4435 Thanks and the same to you!
Whenever i feel lost thinking about my art, your videos comfort me. Thanks for always being there for me.
Understanding how oil behaves on the canvas and how to treat the medium with respect for its attributes is the main reason I have stayed away from oil painting still, but soon I will begin my journey! Color theory is all over the place and you not only shed much needed light on it but also demonstrated it so well! Again thank you sincerely for sharing this with the world, you are appreciated!
Thank you for the support, glad my work is helping you start your new oil painting journey ! Let me know how it goes.
@@FlorentFargesarts I sure will!
Also I love that Florent is using the grid method. I use it for every painting and it has been transformational for me. You're still drawing freehand and using your eye but it helps you with proportions immensely
I start with drawing when I was a little girl, you always could aford a pencil and paper, (or you could use the scholl supply)😇
Whenever I get stuck or lost in an oil painting I think to myself just draw it. It always works. If you want to paint realism you absolutely have to learn how to draw and study anatomy. Doesn't mean you can't start right away with painting but definitely learn how to draw. It's crucial. If you go to an art school or study in an Atelier they are going to make you learn how to draw. When I went to Parsons School of Design in the Foundation program you took two drawing classes interpreted figure and life drawing
I agree with your approach, it certainly fits with how I started learning, without much more than school instruction, which was patchy and rarely very good. I wonder if the Classical approach was partly due to paint being expensive and harder to make, back in renaissance times, and most artists would have been training in an apprenticeship. Thank you for another valuable video.
As someone who’s been drawing for years, and just started to learn to paint, I would recommend building both skills simultaneously
Florent, you somehow got me over my fear , hesitancy and reluctance when it comes to drawing
That being said, I appreciate the evolution of ideas and beliefs
Thanks Anika, glad I could inspire you to make art 😊✨🔥
Great video! By the way, books by Harold Speed are out of copyright, and can be freely and legally downloaded. At least one book is available from Project Gutenberg in various electronic formats. He has (at least) two books:
- Oil Painting Techniques and Materials
- The Practice & Science of Drawing (available at Gutenberg)
Thank you for this fantastic explaination, and being open to the prospect that you may have lost sight or been off a bit in your earlier teaching views of the simultaneous practice of the three. Being an on going self taught, learner of art, (I don't use the word artist about myself as freely as some) I've alway believed that form should lead the way but not to the detriment of simultaneously learning value and color. Sadly however, I'm on Facebook pages where members produce paintings, and have obviously never EVER practiced any drawing what-so-ever. So I think the other end of the spectrum is people, painting their dog for instance, thinking: "I'll just splash paint on a surface, and the shape of my dog's head is really not that important.". Oh, but it is. I'm learning something everytime I pick up a pencil or brush. Love your videos.
Your videos help me conquer the fear of failure. Its crazy.
I have payed attention to every lesson this amazing artist has shared. After a few, i picked up a charcoal pencil and jumped right in to a portrait of a sailor. Holy Cow! My very first time drawing was crazy great. I swear Florent was in the room with me guiding me. So I have a lot more that I have done to get ok with tones, shading, angles, light. Over Christmas while I was at my daughter's, her hubby noticed I was working in my book (I have a binder I put 2 drawing tablets in I use) and asked what I was doing. I turned the book around so he could see what I had done and right away he said...Albert Einstein. YES! I was over the moon proud of myself in that moment and at the same time sending some thank you energy to France. A crazy thing, everyone that I have drawn becomes a younger version of themselves. (I am working on that one)
I am feeling good about picking up a brush now and seeing what happens there. Thank you so much Florent and thank God for blessing you with your talents in artistry and teaching.
Great points.
Painting for me was like a therapy session and I used to dread drawing lol, I just hated it, but I did because I wanted to get better at painting and that was what everyone was saying I should be doing first. It got to a point that I didn't wanted to do either, painting became a chore too because I had to draw first. I understand a lot better now (and I'm back at it), but I still think I could just continued painting and I'd probably be fine
Yes!✨🫶 Well said
This makes me remember of my past , i was very good in oil painting but I left it to study drawing first , the result was that I lost interest and got in an art block I realised that I actually liked doing art after a hold a paint brush after a very very long time .
Le dessin pour ma part. J'ai fait un détour par le digital painting (couleur sous les lignes) et j'ai souhaité tester une peinture un jour, pour voir. Je ne suis pas parvenu à me défaire des lignes, un vrai handicape. Par curiosité j'ai commencé à regarder comment travaillaient les peintres que j'appréciais. Je suis tombé sur votre chaîne et là... révélation (il y a 3 jours) : résultat j'ai acheté de la peinture à l'huile et je me suis testé. Grosse leçon d'humilité. Alors pour ce qui est du digital, plus de soucis, effectivement le travail des formes, en partant du large vers le précis, doit s'apprendre, même pour un illustrateur confirmé ; mais le digital ne m'intéresse plus. Je veux peindre, même si pour le moment le coup de pinceau est à des années lumières de l'image mentale. Merci pour tout, à bientôt sur Patreon.
Have you done a video on underpainting? I find many people don't discuss this anymore and how to select a color based on subjects skin tone vs all-round final goal. It's sad many people don't discuss it anymore.
Very nice❤❤
C'est une très belle remise en question. Et toujours trouver du plaisir, la clef du progrès . Merci pour ce partage. 👍👋 PS: A quand la formation couleur en français . 🙃
great book!
I draw since I was 10 and I have not really done painting just used water colour. I want to try oil
As I am returning to art I am still exploring the possibilities. But at the moment I am finding myself drawn, pun intended, towards charcoal and graphite. I think this is partially to do with my love of old black and white films as well as the photographs of photographers such Ansel Adams. I also enjoy pencil and ink drawing. I am exploring the use of colour but I have a feeling the will not include areas such as oil painting, if for no other reasons than I will end up doing to many things, as usual, and not go deeper into the areas I plan to explore.
Hello Florent I wanted to acquire your oil paint guide on gumroad but my bank called me and told me the products has some fraud reports, is there any other way I can get it ?
Yes.
Draw....mix....paint....in that sequence is important I feel as Mark carder says....but I'm always going in circles 😅
which explains why student painters didn't learn to paint at the Academy but with Masters. The Academy of Beaux Arts taught drawing but not color theory or painting or sculpture, if I remember correctly. I also prefer your approach, especially as an adult. It's like for someone who wants to learn to play the piano and explore and has to go to years of doing scales 😞 Makes you want to scream, no? ;-)
Just a thought - does drawing even have to be pencil on paper? Can you not draw with your paint brush?
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That makes sense in way because a child, toddler experiences firm from color.
Harold Speed was born in 1872.
His oil painting book was only published in 1924.
Yep, sorry I went too fast and mixed up the dates 😅😅couldn't fix it in the video but added a correction note in the description, thanks for notifying me 😊😊
That or he was a very precocious baby.
Dear Diary,
Today I took my first steps spoke my first word and published my first book.
Hmmmm y el proceso completo? 3:40 Eso es todo???? hmmmmmmmmm
If you want to copy things like most painters, It helps to be able to draw. Otherwise...........
Yes you do need to draw no question
Dude, I can't even try drawing because I don't know how to draw.
Anybody can learn how to draw it takes a lot of time though you have to train your eye I'd say you're not an artist if you don't know how to draw every painter knows how to draw if they wanted to they know how to draw the human body even the abstract painters knowing how to draw really helps with painting because drawing is basically painting all the light and Shadow Theory translates over
@J.Shelby you have to know the rules though in order to break them if you want to do figure drawing and if you don't know how to put the pieces together you'll never draw the human figure very well without knowledge of anatomy and things like that. for other things like abstract art it doesn't really matter though. I don't think anybody really knows how to draw if they don't learn it. if you ask someone to draw something and if they're not familiar with how to draw it they can't do it you can't learn to draw from imagination if you don't know how to build the things from simple shapes that's why children's drawings don't look very good.
There are more than one famous painters who doesnt know how yo draw. Basquait for example.
But drawing is very much a valuable skill for an artist to learn. Not to mention it strengthens parts of the brain .
Bob Ross was a good landscape artist, yet he had never picked up a pencil.
I think it's SUBJECTIVE, it depends on how much and how developed your right side of the brain is.
After all, aren't we beautifully different from each other? ;)
It also depends what you are painting. I can do a landscape without drawing, just sketching the positions of any buildings and trees as shapes. However I can't paint a flower for example, or a bird, without first sketching it to some degree. I'm only just now trying my second ever human figure. The head on this plus the first one I did last year, are side on, two thirds of the face turning away, because I've never done any portraiture up til now. It's too much of a jump to start learning that as well as practicing all the other stuff at the moment. The only reason I'm doing a person at all is because it's a challenge set at my local art group to do a dancer of some kind.