This is genius, the way you set up the points in the still life. It is not the measurement of every single thing before you start. It is fluid, but the fixed points are anchors. I also love the color notes. I can see, in a still life, how you can set it up. It makes perfect sense. Now in a portrait and figure, I cannot yet understand the technique. If Boston School panters do not make videos, demonstrate, get this on the Internet forever in some form, a lot of this teaching will be lost forever. There is one school in Minnesota and there is yours. You need to expand.
Hello Mr Ingbretson, I've just discovered your TH-cam videos in the last couple of days and I can't get enough. I have certainly been of the outline school for so many ears and am astonished and delighted to have found both you and the Boston School, which I have never heard of before. Some of the individual artists, but not the group as a whole. I will finish the pieces for my upcoming exhibit in the same manner as I have been doing. But then! I can hardly wait now to work on this approach. And I now have a lot more great info to share with my own amateur students. you are a kind and generous teacher. Thank you so much for doing these videos. i look forward to watching more.
I have understood and practiced measuring from the vertical for many years. When I came across an image of Sargents London studio, and I saw these…. Cords pulled out of the way and looped onto something on the wall I was puzzled. As I pondered those it dawned on me that they were plumb lines and felt that great burst of recognition of how he had been working. Your method of working from the outside in is very new to me. Thanks for your kind answer.
Now your cooking with gas, one of your best videos . All your videos are made with love and excitement but this one really ignited you in my opinion. It really shows how proud you are of your method and student.
1/ No idea why youtube has hidden your channel from me given the many thousands of art channels I have watched. 2/ Starting by establishing the highlight is not something I've heard anyone else suggest. It took me years not to work on a dull toned ground, preventing me from establishing highlights that pop. 3/ Really like the way you shake off the usual outline filling in process. Many thanks for making these.
@@PaulIngbretson Mull, an island about the size of Hong Kong half way up the west coast of Scotland. Painted landscape watercolours for a living for 35 years but covid caused me to dig out the old oil paints, trying yet again to build a method which avoided colouring in. TH-cam is far more use than art school in the late 70s. They taught me nothing. Thanks again.
Thanks Paul! I’ve begun work on a toned paper drawing like you suggested a while back. Trying to apply your concepts of visual order. It is still a constant temptation to outline everything first but I’m beginning to see the power in establishing just a few points at the beginning. It really allows you to establish the overall gesture and proportions without having to invest so much time in a lot of busy line work. Also it’s much easier to make adjustments at the beginning stages because you only have a few lines and it’s a pretty trivial matter to move them around till they are right. I’ll keep in mind the points brought up in this video as I continue to work on it. I’ll let you know how things go as it progresses.
BTW Try to make a powerful and truthful statement of the main events in a matter of an hour or so. Really forces you to blur down and limit and to do very good work in the main events.
Thanks for this , it is very useful, I will certainly share this with our students.Looking forward to see you demo it all the way. Greetings from Netherlands.
Really enjoyed your presentation on the visual order and has really opened my eyes to the main intention when beginning a painting, in fact the intention at the beginning of the painting has the main weight to how the outcome will end. I really love the spatial quality that it creates. I have a question though. I can see how this method would relate to a planned still life, but how or could I apply it to painting the landscape, en plein air?
Does exactly the same things at those same kinds of significant points. Try it. So glad you are seeing what it does. May do a video to clarify it in a landscape, thanks.
Hi Paul. In this video there comes a point where you mention that one must do their homework and learn to draw. In the last few weeks I have suddenly begun to see results where I can reach a point where something appears to resemble a likeness, whereas just a short time ago, I couldn't have gotten even close. Although when I trace the drawing on glass and check my results against the subject there are still some errors, but I can get quite close. It may be a long time still till I get more confident with my drawing and every new subject presents a different challenge. Is there a particular point in your atelier where you introduce the student to painting simultaneously while still improving on the drawing? Might there not be benefits to starting to paint that can help you see drawing in a new light? I ask this question at a point when I contemplate on spending some time drawing using paint, but am still not confident to take the step.
Yes, per your conclusion there. I try to get both going at once as nearly as i can since even I really finished picking up my drawing while painting. We drew and painted still lifes with Gammell in the first year even while in the cast. Moreso even because our way of painting requires having all the horses going at once right through. Pleased to hear of your progress as you become more dedicated to the study of the realationships.
Was interested to hear Joaquín Sorolla y Bastida technique for painting portraits as painting from inside to out and of his dedication to painting plein air - perhaps some similarities to the "Boston" ideas.
@@PaulIngbretson Having listened to your thesis describing the Boston approach ( not colouring in and working directly from the subject), I came across Sorolla. Perhaps he is better known in USA, but in the UK his work is under represented having been passed over by the large institution. Only last week did I chance across his work online. He ticks a few boxes, his love and referencing of Velazquez, acquainted with Sargent, working directly from nature and in this talk his approach to portrait painting is also worthy of note. I was curious if you see some parallel with the Boston approach? The link I include is to a talk in which Sorolla describing his portrait painting technique. th-cam.com/video/JFQ1RNlSB24/w-d-xo.html
@@PaulIngbretson re "Was thinking Isle of Mull was a good name for someone thinking things through" - alternatively someone contemplating drinking a glass of hot wine.
Paul. Great. I find getting things related to each other in the set up (that is sitting right in front of you) less of a challenge than getting the whole of the setup well placed within the frame (which is not in the visual field). Even using a viewfinder. Any tips?
Thanks for the video.. It was very useful. Several questions come to my mind. 1 If we paint two shapes next to each other with high contrast (let's say black and white) or with complimentary colors would not it be muddy when we try to sharpen/fix edges later. 2 in your approach do you start with thinner (also prevent mud and not use white early) and then get thicker (may be without solvent) and finally by using oil dense solvent to paint the details¿ And maybe some lines (like eye lashes etc)... 3 you try to keep almost every edge soft at first except some anchor points... Then as time goes you add some hard edges... You go fro soft edges to hard edges is it correct? Paul Thanks for answers in advance...
I'm trying to understand your comparison of spatial and visual order. Could you elaborate on the difference a bit more? The spatial meant the biggest box around things and the visual order meant "stronger to weaker" what exactly?
Good question, Elizabeth. When I say spatial I just mean things like how far apart this point is from that one in relation to other such sets, or how big one value unit compared to others, or angles to other angles - anything related to the 2D space. (Which by the way is why it is important to reduce your scene to 2D mentally.) We concern ourselves with the major heights to widths of elements in the space before smaller proportions, etc. Angles covering the entire canvas are more important than local ones for a while. And so on. 'Visual order' is different: all we mean is the relative projectivity to the eye of 'effects' defined as spots where different values meet and produce light effects. The highest contrast ones with the sharpest edges tend to come to the eye first and the lowest contrast ones and softer edge ones last. It simply makes it easier to know which spots are probably most important in a visual impression way rather than a spatial way. Obviously these points will have a spatial relationship to each other in a picture, too. Ask again if this is unclear..
This may not be the right subject matter but I have some questions. Firstly what’s your opinion on Anson Kent Cross and his ‘Cross Drawing and Painting Glass’ tool to aid in seeing the masses, accurate proportions and studying? Secondly what are some lesser known art books/artists that you think should be more known about? Thanks.
I do like Anson Cross and the glass tool is rational for drawing, grasping the idea of the picture plane. if you send me an email, i will send my reading list. ingbretson_studio@yahoo.com
I'm a hobby artist and the breadth and depth of my understanding of art and art principles are so enriched by your videos. Thank you.
Good, glad.
This is genius, the way you set up the points in the still life. It is not the measurement of every single thing before you start. It is fluid, but the fixed points are anchors. I also love the color notes. I can see, in a still life, how you can set it up. It makes perfect sense. Now in a portrait and figure, I cannot yet understand the technique. If Boston School panters do not make videos, demonstrate, get this on the Internet forever in some form, a lot of this teaching will be lost forever. There is one school in Minnesota and there is yours. You need to expand.
Very glad it came through, Jan. It's what I'm doing with workshops, etc.
Hello Mr Ingbretson, I've just discovered your TH-cam videos in the last couple of days and I can't get enough. I have certainly been of the outline school for so many ears and am astonished and delighted to have found both you and the Boston School, which I have never heard of before. Some of the individual artists, but not the group as a whole. I will finish the pieces for my upcoming exhibit in the same manner as I have been doing. But then! I can hardly wait now to work on this approach. And I now have a lot more great info to share with my own amateur students. you are a kind and generous teacher. Thank you so much for doing these videos. i look forward to watching more.
That's as nice a sentiment as I could want, Lori. Thanks
I have understood and practiced measuring from the vertical for many years. When I came across an image of Sargents London studio, and I saw these…. Cords pulled out of the way and looped onto something on the wall I was puzzled. As I pondered those it dawned on me that they were plumb lines and felt that great burst of recognition of how he had been working. Your method of working from the outside in is very new to me. Thanks for your kind answer.
Now your cooking with gas, one of your best videos . All your videos are made with love and excitement but this one really ignited you in my opinion. It really shows how proud you are of your method and student.
1/ No idea why youtube has hidden your channel from me given the many thousands of art channels I have watched. 2/ Starting by establishing the highlight is not something I've heard anyone else suggest. It took me years not to work on a dull toned ground, preventing me from establishing highlights that pop. 3/ Really like the way you shake off the usual outline filling in process. Many thanks for making these.
Very pleased it got you there, Isle of Mull, Isle of Wight's neighbor?
@@PaulIngbretson Mull, an island about the size of Hong Kong half way up the west coast of Scotland. Painted landscape watercolours for a living for 35 years but covid caused me to dig out the old oil paints, trying yet again to build a method which avoided colouring in. TH-cam is far more use than art school in the late 70s. They taught me nothing. Thanks again.
Live demonstration! Yes please...
Thanks Paul! I’ve begun work on a toned paper drawing like you suggested a while back. Trying to apply your concepts of visual order. It is still a constant temptation to outline everything first but I’m beginning to see the power in establishing just a few points at the beginning. It really allows you to establish the overall gesture and proportions without having to invest so much time in a lot of busy line work. Also it’s much easier to make adjustments at the beginning stages because you only have a few lines and it’s a pretty trivial matter to move them around till they are right. I’ll keep in mind the points brought up in this video as I continue to work on it. I’ll let you know how things go as it progresses.
BTW Try to make a powerful and truthful statement of the main events in a matter of an hour or so. Really forces you to blur down and limit and to do very good work in the main events.
New England Ateliers Of Drawing and Painting
I will try my best. Thanks!
Wow, wow... so magical!!! Quite exquisite! This is Creation at it's best!!
Enjoyed this presentation very much. I'm going to have watch a few times so it sinks in.
wow, watching this again after 3 yrs, 500+ subscriber only, now its 11.3K, awesome, thanks for the teaching
Welcome back! and you are welcome
Thanks for this , it is very useful, I will certainly share this with our students.Looking forward to see you demo it all the way. Greetings from Netherlands.
Thanks for this great video.
This is a great video. Thank you!
Really enjoyed your presentation on the visual order and has really opened my eyes to the main intention when beginning a painting, in fact the intention at the beginning of the painting has the main weight to how the outcome will end. I really love the spatial quality that it creates. I have a question though. I can see how this method would relate to a planned still life, but how or could I apply it to painting the landscape, en plein air?
Does exactly the same things at those same kinds of significant points. Try it. So glad you are seeing what it does. May do a video to clarify it in a landscape, thanks.
Would you please describe how to translate painting in the visual order in a still life to painting plein air? Thank you!
Will do, think you asked for this before and I lost track of it.
Hi Paul. In this video there comes a point where you mention that one must do their homework and learn to draw. In the last few weeks I have suddenly begun to see results where I can reach a point where something appears to resemble a likeness, whereas just a short time ago, I couldn't have gotten even close. Although when I trace the drawing on glass and check my results against the subject there are still some errors, but I can get quite close. It may be a long time still till I get more confident with my drawing and every new subject presents a different challenge. Is there a particular point in your atelier where you introduce the student to painting simultaneously while still improving on the drawing? Might there not be benefits to starting to paint that can help you see drawing in a new light? I ask this question at a point when I contemplate on spending some time drawing using paint, but am still not confident to take the step.
Yes, per your conclusion there. I try to get both going at once as nearly as i can since even I really finished picking up my drawing while painting. We drew and painted still lifes with Gammell in the first year even while in the cast. Moreso even because our way of painting requires having all the horses going at once right through. Pleased to hear of your progress as you become more dedicated to the study of the realationships.
@@PaulIngbretson Many thanks. That clears it.
Was interested to hear Joaquín Sorolla y Bastida technique for painting portraits as painting from inside to out and of his dedication to painting plein air - perhaps some similarities to the "Boston" ideas.
Do you have something he said for me to refer to PPY? Or are you looking for me to discuss the few lay-in type things I have seen?
Was thinking Isle of Mull was a good name for someone thinking things through. But then looked it up....Scotland, great.
@@PaulIngbretson Having listened to your thesis describing the Boston approach ( not colouring in and working directly from the subject), I came across Sorolla. Perhaps he is better known in USA, but in the UK his work is under represented having been passed over by the large institution. Only last week did I chance across his work online. He ticks a few boxes, his love and referencing of Velazquez, acquainted with Sargent, working directly from nature and in this talk his approach to portrait painting is also worthy of note. I was curious if you see some parallel with the Boston approach? The link I include is to a talk in which Sorolla describing his portrait painting technique. th-cam.com/video/JFQ1RNlSB24/w-d-xo.html
@@PaulIngbretson re "Was thinking Isle of Mull was a good name for someone thinking things through" - alternatively someone contemplating drinking a glass of hot wine.
Just reviewing your replies and realized I never looked at the Velasquez video. Will do so now and maybe comment after.
Paul. Great. I find getting things related to each other in the set up (that is sitting right in front of you) less of a challenge than getting the whole of the setup well placed within the frame (which is not in the visual field). Even using a viewfinder. Any tips?
Hey Paul!
Can you talk about the painting method of Edgar Degas? It seems like he used a bright under painting layer but i am not sure. Thanks
I will try to analyze that with you online but he was all over the place. Have you read Gammell's Shoptalk of Edgar Degas yet? Might be online.
Thanks for the video.. It was very useful. Several questions come to my mind. 1 If we paint two shapes next to each other with high contrast (let's say black and white) or with complimentary colors would not it be muddy when we try to sharpen/fix edges later. 2 in your approach do you start with thinner (also prevent mud and not use white early) and then get thicker (may be without solvent) and finally by using oil dense solvent to paint the details¿
And maybe some lines (like eye lashes etc)...
3 you try to keep almost every edge soft at first except some anchor points... Then as time goes you add some hard edges... You go fro soft edges to hard edges is it correct? Paul Thanks for answers in advance...
I was hoping this would lead to further questions... Just like these, May answer some of this here but may try another video.
@@PaulIngbretson 4. Is this method suitable for more crowded and complex scenes like Bruegel's works...
Oh I ve found one of your demos it is great: th-cam.com/video/fbtBW2T50p0/w-d-xo.html
Thicker is obvious but I wouldn't count on there being no solvent involved. The paint still has to move..and dry!
I'm trying to understand your comparison of spatial and visual order. Could you elaborate on the difference a bit more? The spatial meant the biggest box around things and the visual order meant "stronger to weaker" what exactly?
Good question, Elizabeth. When I say spatial I just mean things like how far apart this point is from that one in relation to other such sets, or how big one value unit compared to others, or angles to other angles - anything related to the 2D space. (Which by the way is why it is important to reduce your scene to 2D mentally.) We concern ourselves with the major heights to widths of elements in the space before smaller proportions, etc. Angles covering the entire canvas are more important than local ones for a while. And so on.
'Visual order' is different: all we mean is the relative projectivity to the eye of 'effects' defined as spots where different values meet and produce light effects. The highest contrast ones with the sharpest edges tend to come to the eye first and the lowest contrast ones and softer edge ones last. It simply makes it easier to know which spots are probably most important in a visual impression way rather than a spatial way. Obviously these points will have a spatial relationship to each other in a picture, too. Ask again if this is unclear..
Might review #115 regarding points, too.
This may not be the right subject matter but I have some questions. Firstly what’s your opinion on Anson Kent Cross and his ‘Cross Drawing and Painting Glass’ tool to aid in seeing the masses, accurate proportions and studying? Secondly what are some lesser known art books/artists that you think should be more known about? Thanks.
I do like Anson Cross and the glass tool is rational for drawing, grasping the idea of the picture plane. if you send me an email, i will send my reading list. ingbretson_studio@yahoo.com
@@PaulIngbretson Thanks for the reply. I have just sent an email for the list.
have the phone 'favor" the light area and the darks will be darker in the final photograph
Oh, thanks, Natacha, I will suggest that to her.
Shoot raw files with a newer camera and adjust values in post production to match your view of the actual values. The camera is just getting raw Data