@@CarlosVargas-js8qz thanks Carlos! I appreciate that feedback. Not scripting is going to save me a massive amount of time in the pre-production, but could end up biting me in the comments if my unmitigated opinions continue to rile some folks up haha. Cheers and thanks for watching.
@@SprometheusI feel like the best videos (that aren't like, Folding Ideas style) come from having a few points that you know you want to get across and just "talking them out" on screen from there. Seems like that's working out already for you!
After 8 years or so of espresso making at home (with 2 different pump machines), I felt that are like 2 ways of possible growth: a) spending more and more money on bigger and bigger gizmos. b) growing personally by becoming a much better home barista. I knew I'm not the a type of guy. Those big machines are fine, sure. But I'm espresso only, don't have the kitchen space, and route b seems way better for me. About a year ago I bought the Flair Pro 2. I haven't pulled one shot on my E61 since then. The FP2 outperforms it easily, once you get the hang of it. With a manual lever you are REALLY in full control of everything. And you know your machine inside out and it's always clean and dry and ready. It's tedious, time consuming, it's surely not for everyone but I absolutely love it. I find pulling a shot with the flair, is really a zen-like experience... I am willing to spend more money on espresso but I will invest it into grinders. EDIT: and yes, when I pull a shot I really don't want to use any "apps", I don't want to feel like to interact with a computer (and I'm saying this as someone who is a software developer for 25 years now...). I want something I fully understand and which is tactile, sensory, something which you can "feel".
Would love to see a side-to-side with a manual lever such as Flair or Cafelat Robot. Also would love to see more content based on different coffee beans, processes, variaties etc. Have a good year! I will be enjoying the channel.
Watching this makes me appreciate my cafelate robot. I can put in just the right amount of water to give me the yield i'm looking for and no worrying about cleaning up the leftovers. Of course this comes at the loss of steam but that is what the NanoFoamer is for. I also love the control you get over the pressure. I can backoff or add more depending on how things look to be flowing. I think it allows me to save some shots that otherwise would have been awful.
I think there is truly something interesting about using a spring lever. I love the connection with the machine. I opted for the Vostok for some of the "modern" conveniences like shot cut off and a preinfusion pump. With your experiences in the coffee world I'll be curious to see where this goes and how you like the Pro 800. Looking forward to future lever info. Keep up the great work!
@@scotthep spring levers are definitely a change, especially without those modern conveniences you mentioned. But none the less there is a learning curve but also, it’s fun to feel challenged to learn a new process with something that seems so familiar.
I have used Londinium for a year. I am thrilled with the espresso and stellar customer support. My ask would be to detail how and why different beans perform in a lever; especially those light roasted fruity beans (Kenya light) that flow fast in my lever, but are still incredibly delicious.
Espresso machine tech here. I will say, working on spring lever machines is SIGNIFICANTLY easier than working on machines brands like Rancilio, Simonelli, or even La Marzocco in some cases. La Marzocco and Slayer Espresso are really well built with the tech in mind. The La Marzocco Linea PB has a 3 way solenoid and flow meter built into the group head cap.
Surprised you didn’t go with the Argos. Which gives you the ability to go direct lever, and spring with different bar springs. I have happily owned my Cafelat robot for 5 years. The direct lever lets me control the shot which makes it much easier to have better shots most of the time while dialing in.
@@cameronbatko the Argos was and still is on my radar, but for similar reasons why I didn’t go with the Cremina SL I wanted something more robust, big and classic feeling on the counter.
Robot is the only machine for any real espresso lover. Simple, reliable, without servicing expenses, precise and momentary pressure control, water profiling... You can pull 1:3 shot ratios and no needs for preheating. You have lighter rost, just put aeropress paper filter and metal screen above it, pur boiling water and pull 1:2.5/3 pull ratio.
Over the holiday I pulled eighty espresso shots in two weeks. Every shot went into a latte for family visiting. If I wasn’t “all in” already with my Syncronika, I could see how the manual lever would be a joy. At least in small quantities. Maybe not eighty shots over two weeks!
@@CoffeeShowcase haha that’s a lot of pulls. I made maybe 10 shots over the Christmas break with my travel kit, a Picopresso and Mazzer Omega. It was a lot of work, haha, but I will say if you dial in a lever and let it ride you can also steam while you pull since the spring is where the pressure is derived, so multiples can be done in short order.
Welcome to lever world sBro! Looking forward to your sharing experiences, which I wish for you to be as pleasant as mine (on a Bezzera Strega for a year now after ≈25 years of e61)
Spring levers have not been on my radar until the past few months or so. I'm highly considering looking into one of these as I hear nothing but great reviews from users. The timing and release of this video is speaking to me. Great upload, looking forward to hearing more reviews from you and your profitec pro 800! Cheers ☕
Just picked one of these up a few weeks ago, so I’ll be keenly following your experiences and hopefully learning along side you. I had an E61 machine previously. Even had the flow control. The Pro 800 is just different. The way I like to describe the difference in taste is, the E61 was like having something baked in an electric oven and the Pro 800 is like having something baked in a gas oven. If that makes any kind of sense… Still learning the machine, so I’ll keep the rest of my thoughts to myself for now, but broadly, I agree with your assessment so far. One thing though, I use a saucer to stop the shot instead of pulling the cup. I think it is cleaner than swapping in another cup too because you don’t have to move the main cup out of the way.
Exceedingly helpful. With just a few words, you resolved any upgradeitis I might have had: love the tactile experience and control from a direct lever, so the profitec is out.
I have the 800 as well, going on second year now. I think, one thing I wish I new beforehand was, that a single boiler is a bit slow if frothing 300ml for coffee. Other than that, shying away from the digital do it all control all machines has been the best decision ever. I love the involved nature of a lever, and I hate the sound of the pump. I wish there was space for a vibration pump and no rotary.
Always said to myself if my machine broke I’d go with a lever machine. I have a Decent modded Gaggia Classic and like the lever style shots. I can see why you went with the one you got. Love the new format
Amazing coincident, I’ve made the exact same switch from Decent (after 5 years) to Pro 800 in November 2024! Had many of the same thoughts and reasons, tactile fun spring lever instead of tapping on a tablet. Looking forward to hearing about you journey, as I’m essentially experiencing it in parallel.
I've had my Pro 800 for a bit over 2 years and love it. My PID is usually set between 121(250) to 123(253) for medium light to light roasts . I simply adjust by taste and idle temp of the group mass . If you are going to do some Skase testing, it would be really interesting to know what the actual loss figure for the dipper system is, so to know the actual brew water temp for a given boiler temp. It will be great to watch your journey and process with the 800.
@@stuartkendall4346 nice! If you have any specific things you wish you’d knew when you got it feel free to share, curious to hear. Also, I’m very curious about the temp numbers, and pressure too. So expect to see that at some point soon.
FYI- you CAN stop shots on “manual” (non-spring) lever machines. Also you have to”pressure profiling” available with manual levers. Also, Odyssey Espresso’s “Argos” can be switched between manual and spring (and you have 3 options for springs with different “bar” pressures). Also, if you want a “longer” shot on a spring lever, you can always do a Fellini pull for more output.
@@brentroman oh yeah. I’m well aware of the difference between manual (direct) and spring levers. I’m speaking directly about the machine I’m using. I’m aware of the Fellini pull, but haven’t had great results in longer shots, and really don’t get into longer much in general but that’s going to be a topic a little further down the line.
happy new year! excited for this new content. I have a friend with an Izzo Alex Leva and I always enjoy going over there and pulling shots. At home I have an old La Pavoni from 1969 that I enjoy on the weekends and when traveling. Lever machines are just so much more relaxing for me. Hope you enjoy the journey with the p800.
@@constantinedinocopses6806 thank you and happy new year to you too! And yeah, I just love that silent brewing operation, minus when the pump kicks on to fill the boiler for the Pro 800 which is a bit of a jump scare moment.
I agree with all of what you said about levers. For the the process of making espresso is relaxing and enjoyable. I’m not interested in pushing buttons. My 2012 Bezzera Strega is still performing exactly as it should, and is a pleasure to use. I would highly recommend a lever machine to anyone who wants to be part of the process and enjoy that silent extraction…
Digging the new style of these videos, I think you’re finding a good niche/counterbalance to the other creators out there. I appreciate the intentionality behind that decision.
I totally agree with you in the case Londinium and Olympia Cremina. Ego and price.:) As you I looked at Profitec 800. And in near future (money):) - I will buy that machine (good balance between ego and price!). Good luck for you research and thank you for your back to the source - lever machines...
Keen to hear more thoughts and see the rebuild video as well. I've gone the other way from my GS/3 to a YOU. I have had it in the back of my mind to use a lever machine but I do like being able to *also* turn my brain off and make coffee but also this means anyone can use the YOU to make pretty good coffee which was one of the reasons I got it.
I was torn between a synkronika and the pro 800 and i went with the synkronika and no regrets but id still like to have the space and budget to get a 800. So i will be watching to see how it makes me feel.
Great video! The Cremina is wonderful (I’ve been using mine for 4 years) but learning curve is a bit longer and you have to let it cool to refill the boiler (so not a high volume machine). Temperature management is more of a thing with the Cremina but it has a wonderful Zen quality that makes it very fun to use.
I'm surprised the Strega wasn't on the list, considering what it brought to the table. It's very open to mods, like PID in it's electrically heated group, the pump in TOP version can be disabled. It's a machine I'm personally eyeing.
@@Narezaath yeah it came up in online searches, but familiarity with the brand and personal experiences eventually won me over. But in the future I’m definitely interested in exploring more options.
great! get the blue softer silikon sealings for the whole group as well as the basket! it will change your life! i use mine since 5 years, never had issues, also works on lightroasts, love it
further: since you are also not into oldschool overlx burned mass produced dark roast blends, smth this lever from bosco was designed for ( not the machine) u can run the machine much hotter! i run it at 124 degree celsius, it will cure your steam pressure problem, the steam will never drop under 1,1 bar… try experiment with the tip of the steamer, i use a 2 point hole, works wonders on this machine…. since you are running mistly hiqh quality coffees, the jump to 124 degree celsius will benefit! especially on lightroasts…. only on really really dark rosstvi go down with temp… this machine is very forgiving, itll always be a smooth shot… also dont be so anxious about the last seconds of the extraction, the lever naturally has a decreasing bar pressure at the end down to approx 4 bar… itll smooth out the shots… best thing: mantainance, no big deal, they dont even suffer from lime water, since theres barely valves affected…. last: theres a smal screw between grouphead and the machine, it acts as a valve, designed to exchange or mantainance the bosco group while keeping the machine running (if u have more than one group) this is also very usefull to experiment with it, since it can also be missused as for controling the waterflow from boiler to grouphead. its helpfull since the water wont aggresivley full throttle hit the coffee puck… try it its great! i hope u keep it ;) i love mine
Pro 800 user here. I have the privilege of having quite a few coffee friends and they have gone through E61s and the like but they all end up at spring levers. There is just something about a spring lever machine that is timeless (and heirloom quality).
@@robojimtv yeah I think a lot of us in the current generation of home espresso people started out chasing that modern, high-tech dragon, but eventually we find our way back haha. Also the reason why I love a manual car, it’s just a much more engaging experience.
@@robojimtv and yeah, I’d say the Argos is probably a great place to start as it’s not a massively expensive piece and has the ability to swap springs and go direct as well.
I've subscribed for some time, and I probably will keep on doing so, since you're one of the most pleasant to listen to coffee TH-camrs out there. But you're going somewhere I have no interest or ability to follow. I've had an espresso machine for a few years that I've never been able to get to work to my satisfaction (it's not the machine's fault, it's me). We moved six months ago and it's still in its box and I've been getting my coffee from pourover and that's been fine. A machine like your Profitec is definitely more work than I want for myself. It's like driving a stick vs. an automatic. I understand the attraction and engagement, but I just need to get from place to place.
I'd have gotten a lever machine, likely the same Pro 800, if I had counter space in my kitchen that wasn't constrained by overhead cabinets. There's simply no room for a lever sticking up that far. I'm currently using a Bianca but backed the Meticulous machine since that's a lever-machine-without-the-lever. Hoping that ships someday. Also, as a programmer, I like that you started with zero :)
Leva love ! Got a 3grp Athena monster machine in my drive thru shop ( if you can believe that), have been using 3yrs or so. It has same head as profitec. Fun to use , customers love it, some inconsistency from variety of time you hold and let go but it's rare shot isn't good even with different ratios or volumes. Cons for me atleast using in commercial environment are exposed HOT heads, head gaskets are thinner then standard machines so they ware faster and they also hold screen on ( whole thing can blow out of there if dont lock filter in snug enough) and seems hard to get good steam out of wand( lots power but wetter, not that nice dry steam? you can get with some other machines. Why not odsy argos ? Hard to get ? Thanks, I'm going to enjoy these lever videos since I use one alot !
Just curious sir Sprometheus, if you are looking for control and better tactile feel, why didnt you consider fully manual machines like a Robot or Flair levers? From what I'm seeing, the Pro 800 is basically semi auto, but you pull a lever instead of pressing buttons.
Yep. I consider to buy some high end coffee machine and only 2 machines remained for me: La Marzocco Leva X1 and new Slayer Steam Single. I considered also KVdW Spiritello, but price 17,3k € in Europe is a joke😂
@@Mujahed0001 currently I use Sage/Breville Oracle, whoch was good to learn for the first 18 months and it’s coming time to switch for something more advanced
Hi, I own a Profitek Pro 600 and, like you, am annoyed by the lack of the reservoir cover. Can you share the info about where, how and cost of the cover you had made for you? Thanks.
@@les5309 yeah he said he used a n open sourced info for a Rancilio water tank cover and made a few adjustments. In terms of cost I don’t know what he would’ve charged, I gave him a grinder in trade. But I can’t imagine it would be more than $20
What about the Nurri Leva Type? Seems like the perfect spring leva machine… dual boiler, rotary pump, la san Marco 54mm group, and you can stop the shot…
Great video and looking forward to your journey with levers. I don't know if your videos influenced my interest in spring levers, or if I just coincided with you, but looking forward to see what you learn and think. Also.......the light on the microphone is a little noticeable? But I can deal with it. Thanks for the great videos and info!
That’s a nice machine that you chose. Frankly, I think any of the three lever machines you considered would have been good. I agree with the Cremina comments. I don’t no much about the R24 or its creator. But the pro tech 800. It’s a beautiful machine built by a solid company. For me, it was too much machine, way too heavy, way too big for my space, and too much wait time. Good luck with the new format. I’m glad you’re trying something new although I did enjoy your product reviews.
Excellent choice! I’ve been using Londinium’s for the past 6 years. L1 to LR and now R24 the past 2 years, very happy with my londo and customer service is top notch.
Nice! I am definitely joining you on your journey since I am also considering a switch to a lever machine. Did you also think about the Kees van der Westen Spiritello? Hard to beat regarding the appearance on the bar. Insane pricetag, I known. However, it would be kind of a standalone feature for your channel. There is very limitted high quality content with this machine.
Profitec Pro 800 is firmly in my short list and I’m comparing this with a Londinium Vectis. My trusty e61 is still OK but I want simplicity and that default spring lever profile.
@@A266509 I’ve never used it, so I don’t have any firsthand experience. It was on my radar early on, but when a retailer told me they stopped carrying it when it had so many warranty issues in its first year it dropped off the list.
I like this style of video, very interesting things. I would love to hear your thoughts on this machine vs the flair. Both are manual levers. Obviously this boils the water as well but from pulling a shot perspective, or being the owner of one.
I have the older cremina. I agree with your points about the price but after years of coffee machines coming and going if my old cremina breaks im getting a brand new one for sure. its like what leica is for camera world but for coffee, old reliable and expensive.
Why spring and not manual? Manual is more tactile and involved and lets you go completely away from anything digital. For the price of the Profitec 800 you can get a Strietman CT2, was that on your list?
@@plantex625 I’ve done manual a lot, it’s not my all time favorite way to pull, and I wanted something that was completely different from anything I’ve done, so spring hit the mark.
I was saving up for a decent but then i saw a pretty gold deal on an old londinium and i have not looked back. I just wish spring levers had more options.
Wait until you get to Full Manual Lever, will solve your issues, that you run into currently, and let you somewhat fix the issues on the fly, by decreasing pressure (eg if you are running faster than you want) etc, salvaging otherwise bad shots into fine ones.
@@ize1000009 yeah I’m curious to get the Cremina up and running and see how I like it. Generally I’ve made quite a few manual shots over the years on my Flairs, robot, etc. so I felt like a spring was a new horizon of sorts.
There is a spring lever machine where you can stop the shot but I can’t remember the name of it. I have to look for it. I personally own a Londinium and it’s working like a charm and has been upgraded several times to a R24, which is actually a proof of customer consideration (give me an example of a machine you can upgrade each time a new one is released).
@@7Miralas oh yeah, the heat up time is about an hour for everything to reach a nice equilibrium. Curious to track my power bill and see if it’s a noticeable jump.
Ordered pro 800 year or so ago, came damaged, took some time to ship it back and get import fees refunded. Found Londinium R with upgraded pump control locally and couldn't be happier.
Good call about the Londinium. I have seen a bunch of forum drama involving the owner of that company. That's such a big red flag that I would never buy a machine from them. It doesn't matter how big or small your market is, if you can't behave professionally it's going to hurt your business. As for the Pro 800, I'm not sure. It seems very strange to me to have a PID controller just to control the temperature of an enormous boiler. Why not simplify things and use an adjustable pressurestat? They're very cheap and reliable, and the pressure in the boiler tells you its temperature indirectly (I have a MaraX and I know when my temperatures are good just based on boiler pressure). The other strange thing to me is that there's no pressure gauge for the group. Even a very cheap Flair has a pressure gauge option for very little money. A pressure gauge with a spring lever machine lets you not only get a number on how things are going but also lets you do some pressure profiling by holding back on the lever so that the water doesn't get the full force of the spring
As a genuine car guy, this is like choosing between a Tesla or a Dodge Viper. I don't care at all that the Tesla is waaay faster, and got more of most things. I'm that stick shift guy, so I completely understand this choice. No need to go complete SuperfastMatt on it though 😅
I adore my Pro 800. The only issue I've had with the machine in the past 2.5 years is that the plating on the lever has gradually worn away where it meets the piston, giving it an unattractive scratched up look. Other than that, it has been a dependable daily driver.
I had the Profitec Pro 800 and my biggest problem was the temperature stability. After 2 hours on the Machine is way to hot at 120. Yes u can lower the boiler pressure but if u want reach brew temps around 90C u need set it to 116 or so, and then the steaming power is so low that u are not able to steam milk properly. In my eyes this machine is a bit of a false construction because it will not allow u a brew temp of 90C and still have enough steaming power. My 20 year old La Pavoni PUB1EL is a Dipper Lever with water reservoir as well and is way ahead of in temperature stability and steaming power compared to the Pro800.
I had a similar experience with my 800. After 10+ years owning a strega the 800 was going to be my “last” big machine. Built is great, and having lived in Heidelberg there was this connection that this should be THE machine. The overheating after 2 hrs, the long warm-up time, the low steaming pressure and the waaay to strong spring pressure led me to selling it after 6 months. Have an argos now, and am happy with the coffee it produces, every time a good shot! Hope you have better experiences with your 800.
Cremina is the Leica of the coffee world. Seductive, expensive, built beautifully/strong - will probably out live you…. but you have to opt in to that way of relatively basic work flow. Getting the best from these type of devices is slight and nuanced… and not everyone’s (even if you can afford them) ‘cup of tea’… or coffee…
The timing of this one is hilarious in my personal life since I'm pursuing the anti-Sprometheseus machine order. I just made my jump from lever machines to pump machines, and a linea at that. The pro-800 is really great machine for spring levers; everything you need, nothing you don't. I lust after the nurri and KVW as much as the next guy, but the 800 really embodies the feel more than the rest.
Your Sideboard is to low in height to operate a spring lever. You can do that, but you ll always operate above the spring loaded lever. I hope it will end good, but if you got hit because of leaning above dont say nobody warned you.
@@Horologiist well I’m aware of the spring function of the spring lever, and I’d love a higher sideboard, but after weeks of looking for one that matches my planned aesthetic, can hold 200+ lbs and is at least 19in wide to accommodate the Pro 800 the height issue felt less important due to the lack of options.
I love the no-script Spro. You feel like a real person, not a TH-camr. It’s refreshing. I’m excited for this change.
i think you made the right choice. I like the new direction of the channel a lot. keep it up!
@@matwright92 thank you my friend, I appreciate the kind words and looking forward to sharing this journey.
Digging this new style. Flows better than scripted. Best in the new year!
@@CarlosVargas-js8qz thanks Carlos! I appreciate that feedback. Not scripting is going to save me a massive amount of time in the pre-production, but could end up biting me in the comments if my unmitigated opinions continue to rile some folks up haha. Cheers and thanks for watching.
@@Sprometheusthe opinions is what we come for 🤘🏽
@@SprometheusI feel like the best videos (that aren't like, Folding Ideas style) come from having a few points that you know you want to get across and just "talking them out" on screen from there. Seems like that's working out already for you!
After 8 years or so of espresso making at home (with 2 different pump machines), I felt that are like 2 ways of possible growth:
a) spending more and more money on bigger and bigger gizmos.
b) growing personally by becoming a much better home barista.
I knew I'm not the a type of guy. Those big machines are fine, sure. But I'm espresso only, don't have the kitchen space, and route b seems way better for me.
About a year ago I bought the Flair Pro 2.
I haven't pulled one shot on my E61 since then. The FP2 outperforms it easily, once you get the hang of it.
With a manual lever you are REALLY in full control of everything. And you know your machine inside out and it's always clean and dry and ready.
It's tedious, time consuming, it's surely not for everyone but I absolutely love it.
I find pulling a shot with the flair, is really a zen-like experience...
I am willing to spend more money on espresso but I will invest it into grinders.
EDIT: and yes, when I pull a shot I really don't want to use any "apps", I don't want to feel like to interact with a computer (and I'm saying this as someone who is a software developer for 25 years now...). I want something I fully understand and which is tactile, sensory, something which you can "feel".
Would love to see a side-to-side with a manual lever such as Flair or Cafelat Robot. Also would love to see more content based on different coffee beans, processes, variaties etc. Have a good year! I will be enjoying the channel.
Glad to see you coffee “pros” finally discovering the pure zen joy of lever machines!
Watching this makes me appreciate my cafelate robot. I can put in just the right amount of water to give me the yield i'm looking for and no worrying about cleaning up the leftovers. Of course this comes at the loss of steam but that is what the NanoFoamer is for. I also love the control you get over the pressure. I can backoff or add more depending on how things look to be flowing. I think it allows me to save some shots that otherwise would have been awful.
I think there is truly something interesting about using a spring lever. I love the connection with the machine. I opted for the Vostok for some of the "modern" conveniences like shot cut off and a preinfusion pump. With your experiences in the coffee world I'll be curious to see where this goes and how you like the Pro 800. Looking forward to future lever info. Keep up the great work!
@@scotthep spring levers are definitely a change, especially without those modern conveniences you mentioned. But none the less there is a learning curve but also, it’s fun to feel challenged to learn a new process with something that seems so familiar.
I have used Londinium for a year. I am thrilled with the espresso and stellar customer support. My ask would be to detail how and why different beans perform in a lever; especially those light roasted fruity beans (Kenya light) that flow fast in my lever, but are still incredibly delicious.
I have the La Marzocco Leva X.. it was an experience to learn - good and bad. But now it’s just a joy to wake up.
Espresso machine tech here. I will say, working on spring lever machines is SIGNIFICANTLY easier than working on machines brands like Rancilio, Simonelli, or even La Marzocco in some cases. La Marzocco and Slayer Espresso are really well built with the tech in mind. The La Marzocco Linea PB has a 3 way solenoid and flow meter built into the group head cap.
Same here, I went from a crazy high-tech maschine to a simple lever, and I love it
8:26 Spro with the big 2025 energy
Surprised you didn’t go with the Argos. Which gives you the ability to go direct lever, and spring with different bar springs. I have happily owned my Cafelat robot for 5 years. The direct lever lets me control the shot which makes it much easier to have better shots most of the time while dialing in.
@@cameronbatko the Argos was and still is on my radar, but for similar reasons why I didn’t go with the Cremina SL I wanted something more robust, big and classic feeling on the counter.
Robot is the only machine for any real espresso lover. Simple, reliable, without servicing expenses, precise and momentary pressure control, water profiling... You can pull 1:3 shot ratios and no needs for preheating. You have lighter rost, just put aeropress paper filter and metal screen above it, pur boiling water and pull 1:2.5/3 pull ratio.
Funny enough, I would’ve bought an Argos myself to supplement my Decent if it came in a 49mm group (or smaller)
@@ZacharyPinder pretty sure sworks and Odyssey are working on that... But being sworks it won't be a cheap modification
I’m intrigued by this machine and I am looking forward to more f these videos!
Love the new format!
I want a lever machine as my high-end machine and have been researching- so nice timing! Thank you. Did you consider the Nurri machine?
curious too if he considered the vostok or nurri
Over the holiday I pulled eighty espresso shots in two weeks. Every shot went into a latte for family visiting. If I wasn’t “all in” already with my Syncronika, I could see how the manual lever would be a joy. At least in small quantities. Maybe not eighty shots over two weeks!
@@CoffeeShowcase haha that’s a lot of pulls. I made maybe 10 shots over the Christmas break with my travel kit, a Picopresso and Mazzer Omega. It was a lot of work, haha, but I will say if you dial in a lever and let it ride you can also steam while you pull since the spring is where the pressure is derived, so multiples can be done in short order.
Welcome to lever world sBro! Looking forward to your sharing experiences, which I wish for you to be as pleasant as mine (on a Bezzera Strega for a year now after ≈25 years of e61)
Spring levers have not been on my radar until the past few months or so. I'm highly considering looking into one of these as I hear nothing but great reviews from users. The timing and release of this video is speaking to me. Great upload, looking forward to hearing more reviews from you and your profitec pro 800! Cheers ☕
@@damianhbk1 thank you my friend. I am excited to share this lever journey and maybe you’ll join me on it in more than watching! Cheers.
Just picked one of these up a few weeks ago, so I’ll be keenly following your experiences and hopefully learning along side you.
I had an E61 machine previously. Even had the flow control. The Pro 800 is just different. The way I like to describe the difference in taste is, the E61 was like having something baked in an electric oven and the Pro 800 is like having something baked in a gas oven. If that makes any kind of sense…
Still learning the machine, so I’ll keep the rest of my thoughts to myself for now, but broadly, I agree with your assessment so far.
One thing though, I use a saucer to stop the shot instead of pulling the cup. I think it is cleaner than swapping in another cup too because you don’t have to move the main cup out of the way.
I'm heavily interested in picking up an Argos in Direct Lever configuration so it's really interesting to hear your journey and thoughts on this!
Exceedingly helpful. With just a few words, you resolved any upgradeitis I might have had: love the tactile experience and control from a direct lever, so the profitec is out.
I have the 800 as well, going on second year now.
I think, one thing I wish I new beforehand was, that a single boiler is a bit slow if frothing 300ml for coffee. Other than that, shying away from the digital do it all control all machines has been the best decision ever. I love the involved nature of a lever, and I hate the sound of the pump. I wish there was space for a vibration pump and no rotary.
Always said to myself if my machine broke I’d go with a lever machine. I have a Decent modded Gaggia Classic and like the lever style shots. I can see why you went with the one you got. Love the new format
@@gregorio5543 thanks Greg! That reminds me, I need to compare lever shots to “lever shots” on the Decent. Could be a fun comparison.
Amazing coincident, I’ve made the exact same switch from Decent (after 5 years) to Pro 800 in November 2024!
Had many of the same thoughts and reasons, tactile fun spring lever instead of tapping on a tablet.
Looking forward to hearing about you journey, as I’m essentially experiencing it in parallel.
@@robinsundstrom7281 haha that is quite a coincidence. Looking forward to hearing about your journey as well.
I've had my Pro 800 for a bit over 2 years and love it. My PID is usually set between 121(250) to 123(253) for medium light to light roasts . I simply adjust by taste and idle temp of the group mass . If you are going to do some Skase testing, it would be really interesting to know what the actual loss figure for the dipper system is, so to know the actual brew water temp for a given boiler temp. It will be great to watch your journey and process with the 800.
@@stuartkendall4346 nice! If you have any specific things you wish you’d knew when you got it feel free to share, curious to hear.
Also, I’m very curious about the temp numbers, and pressure too. So expect to see that at some point soon.
You upgraded your channel for the new year - great, Happy New Year!!
love this new unscripted style, feels so much more intimate and real. Made the right choice and can't wait for the year of videos
FYI- you CAN stop shots on “manual” (non-spring) lever machines. Also you have to”pressure profiling” available with manual levers.
Also, Odyssey Espresso’s “Argos” can be switched between manual and spring (and you have 3 options for springs with different “bar” pressures).
Also, if you want a “longer” shot on a spring lever, you can always do a Fellini pull for more output.
@@brentroman oh yeah. I’m well aware of the difference between manual (direct) and spring levers. I’m speaking directly about the machine I’m using.
I’m aware of the Fellini pull, but haven’t had great results in longer shots, and really don’t get into longer much in general but that’s going to be a topic a little further down the line.
@@Sprometheussounds good!
happy new year! excited for this new content. I have a friend with an Izzo Alex Leva and I always enjoy going over there and pulling shots. At home I have an old La Pavoni from 1969 that I enjoy on the weekends and when traveling. Lever machines are just so much more relaxing for me. Hope you enjoy the journey with the p800.
@@constantinedinocopses6806 thank you and happy new year to you too! And yeah, I just love that silent brewing operation, minus when the pump kicks on to fill the boiler for the Pro 800 which is a bit of a jump scare moment.
I agree with all of what you said about levers. For the the process of making espresso is relaxing and enjoyable. I’m not interested in pushing buttons. My 2012 Bezzera Strega is still performing exactly as it should, and is a pleasure to use. I would highly recommend a lever machine to anyone who wants to be part of the process and enjoy that silent extraction…
Digging the new style of these videos, I think you’re finding a good niche/counterbalance to the other creators out there. I appreciate the intentionality behind that decision.
I totally agree with you in the case Londinium and Olympia Cremina. Ego and price.:) As you I looked at Profitec 800. And in near future (money):) - I will buy that machine (good balance between ego and price!). Good luck for you research and thank you for your back to the source - lever machines...
HNY Spro!
More Vlogs and looking forward to the eventual podcast 😊
interesting change of pace, looking forward to following your journey
that background lighting tho! really 👌🏼🔥🔥
I got the ACS Vostok and could not be happier! My espresso has never been so rich and smooth
Evo leva here :)
Keen to hear more thoughts and see the rebuild video as well. I've gone the other way from my GS/3 to a YOU. I have had it in the back of my mind to use a lever machine but I do like being able to *also* turn my brain off and make coffee but also this means anyone can use the YOU to make pretty good coffee which was one of the reasons I got it.
I was torn between a synkronika and the pro 800 and i went with the synkronika and no regrets but id still like to have the space and budget to get a 800.
So i will be watching to see how it makes me feel.
This channel is becoming more and more niche... and I like it 😀. You feel passion for coffee, not driven by potential revenues. Thanks.
Great video! The Cremina is wonderful (I’ve been using mine for 4 years) but learning curve is a bit longer and you have to let it cool to refill the boiler (so not a high volume machine). Temperature management is more of a thing with the Cremina but it has a wonderful Zen quality that makes it very fun to use.
Thanks for your thoughts. I too have the same feelings on many of the thinks you mentioned.
@@blownaway13 glad to hear I’m not alone on that! Cheers
I'm surprised the Strega wasn't on the list, considering what it brought to the table. It's very open to mods, like PID in it's electrically heated group, the pump in TOP version can be disabled. It's a machine I'm personally eyeing.
@@Narezaath yeah it came up in online searches, but familiarity with the brand and personal experiences eventually won me over. But in the future I’m definitely interested in exploring more options.
great! get the blue softer silikon sealings for the whole group as well as the basket! it will change your life!
i use mine since 5 years, never had issues, also works on lightroasts, love it
get the old top from the prior profitec it hasnt the holes on where the tank is
further: since you are also not into oldschool overlx burned mass produced dark roast blends, smth this lever from bosco was designed for ( not the machine) u can run the machine much hotter! i run it at 124 degree celsius, it will cure your steam pressure problem, the steam will never drop under 1,1 bar… try experiment with the tip of the steamer, i use a 2 point hole, works wonders on this machine….
since you are running mistly hiqh quality coffees, the jump to 124 degree celsius will benefit! especially on lightroasts….
only on really really dark rosstvi go down with temp… this machine is very forgiving, itll always be a smooth shot…
also dont be so anxious about the last seconds of the extraction, the lever naturally has a decreasing bar pressure at the end down to approx 4 bar… itll smooth out the shots…
best thing: mantainance, no big deal, they dont even suffer from lime water, since theres barely valves affected….
last: theres a smal screw between grouphead and the machine, it acts as a valve, designed to exchange or mantainance the bosco group while keeping the machine running (if u have more than one group) this is also very usefull to experiment with it, since it can also be missused as for controling the waterflow from boiler to grouphead. its helpfull since the water wont aggresivley full throttle hit the coffee puck… try it its great!
i hope u keep it ;) i love mine
Pro 800 user here. I have the privilege of having quite a few coffee friends and they have gone through E61s and the like but they all end up at spring levers. There is just something about a spring lever machine that is timeless (and heirloom quality).
I'm looking at getting one for my future espresso machine. A spring lever that is. I might just opt for the Odyssey Argos though.
@@robojimtv yeah I think a lot of us in the current generation of home espresso people started out chasing that modern, high-tech dragon, but eventually we find our way back haha. Also the reason why I love a manual car, it’s just a much more engaging experience.
@@robojimtv and yeah, I’d say the Argos is probably a great place to start as it’s not a massively expensive piece and has the ability to swap springs and go direct as well.
Saturation at the puck. Not sure any other machine can do what spring levers do.
@@Sprometheus it's also why I'm considering the Aiden to also have a no thinking option for the mornings too.
I've subscribed for some time, and I probably will keep on doing so, since you're one of the most pleasant to listen to coffee TH-camrs out there. But you're going somewhere I have no interest or ability to follow. I've had an espresso machine for a few years that I've never been able to get to work to my satisfaction (it's not the machine's fault, it's me). We moved six months ago and it's still in its box and I've been getting my coffee from pourover and that's been fine. A machine like your Profitec is definitely more work than I want for myself. It's like driving a stick vs. an automatic. I understand the attraction and engagement, but I just need to get from place to place.
Was ACS a consideration? Either the Vostok or the Evo Leva?
Why wouldn’t you consider ACS Vostok?
I definitely would’ve get ACS Vostok or Nurri
Like the new style (but I Liked your previous style as well) you are a great storyteller ! Keep up the excellent work !
I'd have gotten a lever machine, likely the same Pro 800, if I had counter space in my kitchen that wasn't constrained by overhead cabinets. There's simply no room for a lever sticking up that far. I'm currently using a Bianca but backed the Meticulous machine since that's a lever-machine-without-the-lever. Hoping that ships someday. Also, as a programmer, I like that you started with zero :)
Leva love ! Got a 3grp Athena monster machine in my drive thru shop ( if you can believe that), have been using 3yrs or so. It has same head as profitec. Fun to use , customers love it, some inconsistency from variety of time you hold and let go but it's rare shot isn't good even with different ratios or volumes. Cons for me atleast using in commercial environment are exposed HOT heads, head gaskets are thinner then standard machines so they ware faster and they also hold screen on ( whole thing can blow out of there if dont lock filter in snug enough) and seems hard to get good steam out of wand( lots power but wetter, not that nice dry steam? you can get with some other machines. Why not odsy argos ? Hard to get ? Thanks, I'm going to enjoy these lever videos since I use one alot !
Surprised you didn't go for a Bosco or a Londinium which are probably the purest implementation of this group.
I don't normally get excited for sponsored segments, because normally the stuff is BS. I did sign up for that magazine, though!
Exited to see what do you think about the Cremina
Just curious sir Sprometheus, if you are looking for control and better tactile feel, why didnt you consider fully manual machines like a Robot or Flair levers? From what I'm seeing, the Pro 800 is basically semi auto, but you pull a lever instead of pressing buttons.
hey nice video! have you considered the Vostok or the nurri leva ? curious about your opinion:)
To me I have been fascinated with the Spiritello.
But I understand the price is a big barrier for that machine
Yep. I consider to buy some high end coffee machine and only 2 machines remained for me: La Marzocco Leva X1 and new Slayer Steam Single. I considered also KVdW Spiritello, but price 17,3k € in Europe is a joke😂
@ what are currently using?
I am using the LM Micra.
@@Mujahed0001 currently I use Sage/Breville Oracle, whoch was good to learn for the first 18 months and it’s coming time to switch for something more advanced
Hi, I own a Profitek Pro 600 and, like you, am annoyed by the lack of the reservoir cover. Can you share the info about where, how and cost of the cover you had made for you? Thanks.
@@les5309 yeah he said he used a n open sourced info for a Rancilio water tank cover and made a few adjustments. In terms of cost I don’t know what he would’ve charged, I gave him a grinder in trade. But I can’t imagine it would be more than $20
@@Sprometheus Excellent. Thank you.
@@les5309 www.printables.com/model/1143494-profitec-800-water-tank-lid
Let’s see them scace numbers!
What about the Nurri Leva Type?
Seems like the perfect spring leva machine… dual boiler, rotary pump, la san Marco 54mm group, and you can stop the shot…
@@rkytr.2765 I looked at it and talked to a retailer about it but they said they had so many warranty issues with it they stopped.
Oh. They have issues? I wanted to get one. Need better research
Great video and looking forward to your journey with levers. I don't know if your videos influenced my interest in spring levers, or if I just coincided with you, but looking forward to see what you learn and think. Also.......the light on the microphone is a little noticeable? But I can deal with it. Thanks for the great videos and info!
That’s a nice machine that you chose. Frankly, I think any of the three lever machines you considered would have been good. I agree with the Cremina comments. I don’t no much about the R24 or its creator. But the pro tech 800. It’s a beautiful machine built by a solid company. For me, it was too much machine, way too heavy, way too big for my space, and too much wait time.
Good luck with the new format. I’m glad you’re trying something new although I did enjoy your product reviews.
Excellent choice! I’ve been using Londinium’s for the past 6 years. L1 to LR and now R24 the past 2 years, very happy with my londo and customer service is top notch.
Nice! I am definitely joining you on your journey since I am also considering a switch to a lever machine.
Did you also think about the Kees van der Westen Spiritello? Hard to beat regarding the appearance on the bar. Insane pricetag, I known. However, it would be kind of a standalone feature for your channel. There is very limitted high quality content with this machine.
Profitec Pro 800 is firmly in my short list and I’m comparing this with a Londinium Vectis. My trusty e61 is still OK but I want simplicity and that default spring lever profile.
What is your take on the Nurri, Im strugglng to decibe btw that and the 800?
@@A266509 I’ve never used it, so I don’t have any firsthand experience. It was on my radar early on, but when a retailer told me they stopped carrying it when it had so many warranty issues in its first year it dropped off the list.
Funny enough, I bought this machine last week. Out of curiosity what grinder will you be using as your standard goto for this machine?
Looking forward to where this meanders.
I like this style of video, very interesting things. I would love to hear your thoughts on this machine vs the flair. Both are manual levers. Obviously this boils the water as well but from pulling a shot perspective, or being the owner of one.
I have the older cremina. I agree with your points about the price but after years of coffee machines coming and going if my old cremina breaks im getting a brand new one for sure. its like what leica is for camera world but for coffee, old reliable and expensive.
You had some good times with la marzocco, would like to know why you didn't consider Leva, besides the price.
Looking forward to you taking us on your journey ! All Best Wishes to Everyone for 2025 !
Why spring and not manual? Manual is more tactile and involved and lets you go completely away from anything digital.
For the price of the Profitec 800 you can get a Strietman CT2, was that on your list?
@@plantex625 I’ve done manual a lot, it’s not my all time favorite way to pull, and I wanted something that was completely different from anything I’ve done, so spring hit the mark.
I was saving up for a decent but then i saw a pretty gold deal on an old londinium and i have not looked back.
I just wish spring levers had more options.
Wait until you get to Full Manual Lever, will solve your issues, that you run into currently, and let you somewhat fix the issues on the fly, by decreasing pressure (eg if you are running faster than you want) etc, salvaging otherwise bad shots into fine ones.
@@ize1000009 yeah I’m curious to get the Cremina up and running and see how I like it.
Generally I’ve made quite a few manual shots over the years on my Flairs, robot, etc. so I felt like a spring was a new horizon of sorts.
Why no Nurri?
Can you share the File for the 3D printed lid? :)
@lil_Preus I’ll have to let Tom know folks are interested. He’s in here but I’ll message him and get back to you.
@lil_Preus www.printables.com/model/1143494-profitec-800-water-tank-lid
There is a spring lever machine where you can stop the shot but I can’t remember the name of it.
I have to look for it.
I personally own a Londinium and it’s working like a charm and has been upgraded several times to a R24, which is actually a proof of customer consideration (give me an example of a machine you can upgrade each time a new one is released).
Nurri Leva?
For me the only downside (for home use) is the 3l boiler that needs a lot of time and energy to keep up temperature.
@@7Miralas oh yeah, the heat up time is about an hour for everything to reach a nice equilibrium. Curious to track my power bill and see if it’s a noticeable jump.
did you consider getting a La Pavoni Europiccola or Elektra Micro Cassa?
Like the new video format, although didn’t mind the more scripted way either 👍🏽
@@persianwingman thank you my friend, I appreciate the support and kind words. Happy new year.
Thank you. ☕️
Ordered pro 800 year or so ago, came damaged, took some time to ship it back and get import fees refunded.
Found Londinium R with upgraded pump control locally and couldn't be happier.
Listening to the way my friend was treated by londinium, I think you were right to trust your spider senses
Good call about the Londinium. I have seen a bunch of forum drama involving the owner of that company. That's such a big red flag that I would never buy a machine from them. It doesn't matter how big or small your market is, if you can't behave professionally it's going to hurt your business. As for the Pro 800, I'm not sure. It seems very strange to me to have a PID controller just to control the temperature of an enormous boiler. Why not simplify things and use an adjustable pressurestat? They're very cheap and reliable, and the pressure in the boiler tells you its temperature indirectly (I have a MaraX and I know when my temperatures are good just based on boiler pressure). The other strange thing to me is that there's no pressure gauge for the group. Even a very cheap Flair has a pressure gauge option for very little money. A pressure gauge with a spring lever machine lets you not only get a number on how things are going but also lets you do some pressure profiling by holding back on the lever so that the water doesn't get the full force of the spring
As a genuine car guy, this is like choosing between a Tesla or a Dodge Viper.
I don't care at all that the Tesla is waaay faster, and got more of most things.
I'm that stick shift guy, so I completely understand this choice.
No need to go complete SuperfastMatt on it though 😅
I adore my Pro 800. The only issue I've had with the machine in the past 2.5 years is that the plating on the lever has gradually worn away where it meets the piston, giving it an unattractive scratched up look. Other than that, it has been a dependable daily driver.
Londinium is great. Reiss is too!
Love my Strega
Definitely would love to grab an Olympia Cremina
I had the Profitec Pro 800 and my biggest problem was the temperature stability. After 2 hours on the Machine is way to hot at 120. Yes u can lower the boiler pressure but if u want reach brew temps around 90C u need set it to 116 or so, and then the steaming power is so low that u are not able to steam milk properly. In my eyes this machine is a bit of a false construction because it will not allow u a brew temp of 90C and still have enough steaming power. My 20 year old La Pavoni PUB1EL is a Dipper Lever with water reservoir as well and is way ahead of in temperature stability and steaming power compared to the Pro800.
I had a similar experience with my 800. After 10+ years owning a strega the 800 was going to be my “last” big machine. Built is great, and having lived in Heidelberg there was this connection that this should be THE machine. The overheating after 2 hrs, the long warm-up time, the low steaming pressure and the waaay to strong spring pressure led me to selling it after 6 months. Have an argos now, and am happy with the coffee it produces, every time a good shot! Hope you have better experiences with your 800.
Cremina is the Leica of the coffee world. Seductive, expensive, built beautifully/strong - will probably out live you…. but you have to opt in to that way of relatively basic work flow. Getting the best from these type of devices is slight and nuanced… and not everyone’s (even if you can afford them) ‘cup of tea’… or coffee…
Slayer could be like leica
The timing of this one is hilarious in my personal life since I'm pursuing the anti-Sprometheseus machine order. I just made my jump from lever machines to pump machines, and a linea at that.
The pro-800 is really great machine for spring levers; everything you need, nothing you don't. I lust after the nurri and KVW as much as the next guy, but the 800 really embodies the feel more than the rest.
Your Sideboard is to low in height to operate a spring lever. You can do that, but you ll always operate above the spring loaded lever. I hope it will end good, but if you got hit because of leaning above dont say nobody warned you.
@@Horologiist well I’m aware of the spring function of the spring lever, and I’d love a higher sideboard, but after weeks of looking for one that matches my planned aesthetic, can hold 200+ lbs and is at least 19in wide to accommodate the Pro 800 the height issue felt less important due to the lack of options.
8:27 new meme just dropped
Pastry first, book later.
Time travel through espresso..
I'm a lever guy. I love my Flair Pro 2. This will be a fun series
Seriously thinking about grabbing the Pro 3 myself
@ Do it, really fantastic machines
You know that the Flair is technically not a lever machine...
@ well, you just said exactly what Spro said in the video. Well done!