The background information between 1959 to 1962, is that China was suffering from famine and that both USSR and USA were hostile to China, while India enjoyed the support from both superpowers. Importantly, Mao was almost sidelined due to big leap policy in China. Nehru wanted to take advantage of China's weak position to achieve his territory gain with China. In essence, Nehru was over confident about and overestimated Indian strength vis-a-vis Chinese, or to say that Nehru under estimated Chinese will and strength. Today India again becomes a favorite of USA and the West. Hope history will not repeat itself and that India not make the mistake second time by overestimate its own strength and underestimate Chinese by being provocative in the border with China.
Exactly during the Cuban Missile Scare from 16 October - 20 November 1962 between the USSR and US the PRC attacked NEFA -20 October to 21 November 1962, so that neither big power could assist India. Mao thus blew up a multipolar world over a bi or monopolar one. in '62.
Like any other Karan Thapar interview, Mrs Rao was provoked all through, but her grace and maturity stood out. Except very briefly, she never lost her composure. Indeed great learning
I have to confess, I love this interview in all parts of to and fro! Starting from Ambassador Rao's Sir Isaiah Berlin's fox analogy to Mr.Thapar's King Lear, Coriolanus & Winter's tale references. Simply outstanding if this was impromptu! Ambassador Rao unequivocally demonstrates why she is a massively seasoned diplomat and to his credit Mr. Thapar 'kept falling off the wagon' to incriminate Mr. Nehru. The only thing that left me hankering after, was for Mr. Thapar questioning Ambassador Rao about the prospects of how India-China border dispute could come to a more meaningful solution in the future. What an abolute joy it is to hear intellectuals wrangle. :)
I am so indebted to you Karan Thapar Jee for having Ms Rao hauled over coals the way you do your characteristic impeccable way ..That is very much the Brand Karan Thapar stands for me since my childhood..😊🤭🙏❣️❣️❣️
If she is so reluctant to defend her own arguments, why did she put them in writing in the first place ? ' Nehru is a human, just like you and me.' ' This judgement of error not mistake ' ' I didn't mean it ' what type of discussion is that ? If you lack courage to face controversies do desist from writing.
Mr Thapar's interviews should be presented in lectures to train how to research on the topic, probe with the right questions even if it is distasteful to host's own conscience, yet always maintain the dignity of the guest. However, it is also true that the questions raised here had aroused from the interpretation drawn by the interviewer, and it might not be interpreted the same way by other thinkers. 'The Fate of a written word is decided by the reading mind'.
Rather than bringing out Ms Rao's perspective, Karan Thapar has brought out his own conclusions of a reading of Nirupama Rao's book, which is a pity. Wish Thapar would let the interviewee get a word across, instead of cutting her mid- sentence. It's to Ms Rao's credit that she maintained her perspective of Nehru of a fallible human rather than reducing him in stature, as Thapar sought to do. It's all very well to speak with hindsight. Who knows how history will judge present day icons
@@dayaprahlad6951 Despite all the so-called hindsight today's Hindus and Indians have ....We have a spate of academia ridden with intellectual dishonesty, falling all over each other and themselves straining their sense of judgement and conscience ...trying to absolve and defend the pervert crooked and pathetically dim-witted arrogant that Nehru was ...who could brook no dissent despite counsel from GS Bajpayee, and saner voices elsewher..ignored evidence....of Chinese Stealthy land grabbing activities....its ability to foment insurgency in the North East ,,,,and influence Nepalese Communist Govt and Even US Media Organization and International Organizations like WHO using propaganda War agnst India.... Its was a regime full of crooks and turncoats who were beholden to
Yes, because he is the son of the General Thapar who believed in "cutting the throat of his peers" a phrase used much later by Gen Sunderji to describe some particular type of officers who have entered the army.
Karan sounded somewhat rude and obnoxious by attempting to put words in mouth of one of the finest Indian diplomats. Rao came across as a smart, articulate and genial person in the interview as she was during her long diplomatic career. Rao made some historical observations based on her research and concluded that Nehru despite his best intentions erred and misjudged the Chinese designs and intentions in the 50's especially after India opened its arms to Dalai Lama and provided him the asylum which was the right thing do. I admire Nehru for his intellect, faith in secular democracy and promoting higher education to achieve economic progress in such a vast, diverse and mostly illiterate nation that he inherited after the independence. There is not much debate today that Nehru and the Congress party collectively despite their best intentions also erred in putting the new nation on a path of socialism by nationalizing key economic sectors resulting in a much slower economic growth and in reduction of poverty in India compared to other nations in Asia which were at the same stage of economic development as India was in the 50's.
Karan is known for his aggressive, sometimes even abrasive!! The interviews would definitely be more watchable and enjoyable if his .annerism was better.
Nirupama Rao has chosen to use the current blame Nehru atmosphere in the country would be useful to sell some books. We need to be careful about snake like bureaucrats/intellectuals who will use anything for furthering their ambition
This is not about selling books. This is about bringing out the Truth. It is a spiritual law - TRUTH WILL ALWAYS FINALLY PREVAIL. Get rid of your bias and promote Peace!!! It is time for the world's two greatest countries to engage in cooperation, not confrontation, peace, not wars, development, not destruction of life and property!!!
Am reading this book now. Its fascinating. Something that I gleaned from the first 150 odd pages rhymes even today. There is a cable from the UK Ambassador in his 1952 despatch '' India's attitude towards China represents the most complex puzzle of Indian foreign policy. I suspect that fear is their basic motive and are horrified at the possibility of war and want to avoid any clash with China''. This is so true even today. And the 2nd one is Indian ambassador Bajpaye giving his assesment in the early 1950's... '' they were keen to ensure that India did not increase her stature in international affairs so that China's ultimate role as the leading Asian power is not affected or threatened''. China's policy towards India has not changed much since the last 75 years.
That's strange. Some people say that Karan's father was also responsible for the debacle. His own father had a huge role in the war and here Karan is acting innocent.
First of all it's very tough to examine the roles of military men. And let's say even if his father had some role, what does that has to do with Karan?
@@Jeet-2023 Karan is claiming to know nothing about the war expect what he read in Rao's book. His father's role is seen in negative light by those who participated in the war. Please do some research. I presume you are not a child and hopefully heard of google.
@@praguhbis - my father was one of the martyred army officers in 1962 war. I know. And again what karan's father did or my late father did....has no bearing on mine of his views or conduct. Hope you heard of sensibility?
@@Jeet-2023 I am sorry that your father was martyred; perhaps you were very young then. It is difficult to lose one's parents at any age. And their memories cling with us for the rest of our time on this earth.
I wish Karan would not try to reduce everything to a simple YES or NO! Most situations and occurrences in Life are not susceptible to such unequivocal judgements or answers.
Rubbish Karan ! The lady is not a politician. Interrupting her and making her agree to very extreme views you have arrived at is unfair, to put it politely. She has researched and put together a book for the reader to agree or otherwise.
The appointment of Karan Thapar's father Gen Pran Nath Thapar as COAS superseding Gen S.P.P. Thorat was one among many follies. Unless the Henderson Brooks Bhagat Report is declassified we will never know the entire truth. Nirupama Rao's reply is astounding. The historical facts clearly show that Nehru, Krishna Menon and the IB Chief B.N. Mullick were entirely to blame. The Indian Army had been whittled down to 300,000 men and we had just 22,000 men manning a 4000 km frontier. One has to read Brig John Dalvi's book 'Himalayan Blunder' to appreciate the enormity of our acts of omission and commission. What a pathetic interview!
@Jeet opportunist like Karan Thapad got the right chance to make Nehru the scapegoat for his forefather's incapabilities... btw I am a congress supporter and feel sorry to see him so desperate to put all the blame on Nehru. Typical Opportunist jounalist.
Mrs Rao is hell bent of declaring that Nehru had become politically senile 19:59 that by the year 1960...to simply blind approve the Forward Policy of 1961 that incited and irked China over Indian post establishment in Aksai Chin, a unilateral Indian decision
Its very easy to analyse from the comfort of your home, going through all the details, and research reports of other observers, spending years on it, and then with the advantage of hindsight one concludes that Nehru is no strategist.
Dear Mr Thapar, Wonderful interview. So basically Mrs Rao says nehru is wrong on things which in the end gave us a more complete country with 'NEFA' with us and still claims on aksai chin area Two logically consistent books I have come across are - BN Mullick and Srinath Raghavan. Would love to see you interview Srinath Raghavan on this, if you haven't done it already Thanx
Amazing discussion. In awe of the vocabulary skills of both Nirupama and Karan. I watched this 3 times like watching a favorite bollywood movie. These two are my favorite hero and heroines.
"I dont care what the BJP and Mr. Modi think." Karan being Karan 😉 Btw, let's begin by accepting we failed as a Nation and more importantly as a Society. Its 2022 and we are still in the same quagmire vis a vis Chinese. All this, when China became a Nation State in 1949, 2 years after India's independence. Shame on us. I'm sure many Indians envy China. Envy China for its rise and the way it shows eyes to the West and has unravelled the 'World Order'. Bravo! That is the way to go for a CIVILIZATIONAL STATE. Something we must learn. Its never too late to start anew.
Hahaha...true that. There is a beeline to fall in line of Fuhrer by fixing Nehru in supreme leaders and ecosystems narrative. Rajyasabha counter is very crowded, looks like.
... that Mrs Rao's concluding statement about PM Nehru about his greatness as a leader and the ability to accept his wrong foreign policies towards China entirely on his own shoulders ( and not his followers) reflects her ( Mrs Rao's ) diplomatic acumen as a former Ambassador/ Foreign Secretary.
Words n Sentences can be turned & twisted as per each one's perception. Whatever the human errors JN made, he did not expect the Chinese would turn the tables after 50 years or so. Also maybe, he took it lightly as, Development of his Country was more on his Mind.
I condemn those who blame our freedom fighters and leaders of freedom struggle but they themseves doing nothing for the people.The anti nationals are doing all these to divert the attention of the nation from the failures of their Bhagwan Modi.
@@hirakchatterjee5240 Everything he did in foreign relation with respect Pakistan and China was nothing but blunders. Have you forgotten how he invited nawaz sharif on inauguration in 2014 only to have Pathankot and Uri two years later. He was busy showing off the 100 billion dollar investment when Xi Jinping visited India, only to get doklam 3 years later. Then his grand show off in Mamallapuram again with Xi Jinping in 2019 only to get galwan the very next year. Same can be said about Nepal bloackade, Sri Lanka and Afghanistan.
Karan seems very intent to have the entire blame rest on Nehru. Most Indians do believe so and Nehru himself took the blame. But Hope Karan's objective in not so petty as to exonerate his father the Army Chief at the time. Again most analysts believe that Gen Thapar was bypassed by his junior Lt Gen Kaul... Nehru's blue eyed boy who reported directly to Nehru....that itself should hv been enough a reason for Gen Thapar to put his foot down or resign. He knew well Indian Army's lack of preperation but failed to bring the same to Nehru's attention forcefully.
Nirupama was brilliant. Karan a bit obnoxious. She is a great diplomat and uses her words very discreetly. Her clarity of thought is amazing. Nehru’s China policy was a delusional disaster. Our opposition was immature the Chinese deceptive and Nehru naive.
That attitude is still not much different today. Little has changed with how India deal with China. Indian ruling elites still think they are intellectually superior to their Chinese counterparts hence they "played" them with their undeniably better prowess in the English language. It's a form of bullying -- language bullying which is still being done today.
the same bitter kesson not learnt by Modiji since he just abrogated 370 and then made ladak as seaparate union territory which invited Xi Jinping to place all his dvisions of troops on our border.
From the mistakes and experiences of the past, should not both countries sit down NOW and resolve their border disputes. There is no time as NOW? Humanity needs cooperation, not confrontation; peace, not wars; development, not destruction! Go, go, go, India! Go, go, go, China! Go back to the Indi-Chini Bhai Bhai!!! Both countries support non-allignment! Go for Peace!
Hi Karan, Of recent, you have been allowing your panel person to speak, but interfering in between - which is irritating to viewers & forcing us shutout.
Mr. Thapar your intimidation of the guests and putting words in their mouths is not effective journalism. Also, especially in diplomacy, you seek answers to all questions in black and white, which is unrealistic.
@@SunilMehtanim1 The deplomat in her was not ready to blame P N Thapar, karan's father on the debacle was probably the reason, even though he had his fair amount of share in the events that lead to 1962.
Unfortunately we tend to forget what was happening in china just proceeding 1962.Mao has miserably failed in The Great Leap Forward compaign and war would have been a way of distracting chinese masses.
yes, india government did know that, india gov just tried to take full advantage of Chinese mess. but unfortunately even China in a mess still had the capacity to easily crush india.
@@zengpang3177 China routed India in a few places by using sheer numbers. But India won in other places by using good military tactics, but it is not talked about because India lost the overall war. Obviously the winner writes the summary in the end. Today its totally a different matter just keep in mind.
Whether Nehru was singularly responsible or not, what is important that if the facts are known now, India should approach China to negotiate a peaceful settlement. China gets AksaiChin and India south of the McMahon line. Let the two countries then work together for a better future for both countries, and the world.
"China has a tendency to go back on it's promises", in the mean while India going back on Kashmir plebiscite commitment made in the U.N. India going back on Junagarh's ruler wishing to join Pakistan and forcibly merging it with India .
Excellent discussion between two intellectuals and one of the best presentations of the India-China border conflict. Only one query: Thapar mentioned India giving up privileges in Tibet. But Tibet was incorporated into China in the Yuan dynasty some 600 years ago. Part of Tibet was under British occupation after Younghusband's invasion in 1901. Britain imposed a huge reparation on Tibet and it was paid for by the Manchu Emperor in Beijing, which clearly showed Britain considered Tibet to be part of China. So India's Tibet privilege seemed to be misplaced, and should not have been in Nehru's consideration on relations with China.
Mr Thapar, you concentrated on pinning the blame on Mr Nehru for the event s that led to the debacle of '62. The gracious Ambassador repeatedly accepted the fact, the buck had to stop with Nehru being the PM, in addition to his own personal failings It is however intriguing that you omitted to mention the other guilty men of 62, of which Gen PN Thapar was one of the leading figures. That by no means, is an effort to insult your late father. That said, he surely failed in equipping his army then, and further, not updating the political leadership of the state of preparedness of the army, with special reverence to the untenability of the forward policy
She's totally biased to favor the current regime in India. Watch the debate keeping current scenario and the incumbent Prime Minister in place of Nehru, it becomes too scary to handle.
Nehru made mistake. Why can't Modijee make mistake. Don't ask Modijee his mistake came after 60 odd years without learning any lessons, having better equipped armed force and intelligence. After all Modijee can fallback to Chaiwala claim, but Nehru can't.
Karan Thapar and Arnab Goswami have similar blinkered black-white outlooks and insist on brushing of nuance, wasting time of the audience asking the same thing over and over again.
So after your last dialogue with the author and your expected intended acceptance to blame Nehruji whether right or wrong only exposes you media of throwing the blame on Nehruji while the present favourable PM does blunder after blunder in chinese foreign policy, and hides behind media's error of judgement on Nehruji.
Both the political & Military establishments were at fault. Unprepared, complacent and without a clue of ground realities. No one person can be blamed. We are Indians & need to stand by our past & present establishment as far as external threats are concerned. ( However silly some of those might be!!??)
It was a different Karan, and for personal reasons, for once, telling realities about Nehru‘a follies. Wonder when would he do that on two other blunders, on Kashmir, and on so called ‘pseudo secularism’?
what is the intent.if nehru has shortcomings he has many greatness to a great extent.His acceptance to his follies makes him great.In contrast the present rulers have tendencies to carry on with everything wrong with vegenance and take shelter under his cover and name without accepting and morally realising.Nehru's stature status vision energy education experience dedication morality wisdom patriotism and sacrifice cannot be reduced maligned marginalised snached belittled and forgotten.Frankly speaking his persona as of an architect of modern india being the first prime minister of india is unbeatable beyound comparison.
Correct. Nehru may not have been the best PM but he had the courage to admit his errors........that one aspect is totally missing in all the PM's thereafter....present included!
Yes what he did for India in the educational, medical field and engineering too is of benefit even today. During the rise in covid the medical field played a big role in saving the lives of people.
Great interview! As a writer it's your job judge...as to how our prime minister discharged his responsibility!! This is not to say he didn't do other good things! You need to set an example by judging!
Great interview.Karan Thapar in his elements but Mrs.Nirupama Rao is equally sophisticated and capable of stearing through the incisive questioning by Thapar.In the process,we the viewers are provided with nuanced insight in to what happened btn 1951and 1962
i think ,when panchasheel treaty signed by India & china, almost , all the problems should be sorted out by dialogues. we celebrated Indo- Chinni bhai bhai. Then the Tibetan refugees made the situation worse, we should have given them temporary asylum rather than permanent political asylum. May the Chinese have thought India playing double game, like one day u say we r brothers next day u r supporting their enemies. Rest is history,
First of all, views of Rajaji, Sardar Patel, BR Ambedkar and others were NOT mentioned who had always always cautioned Nehru over his friendly China policies. When Nehru was PM and Foreign Minister, obviously, regardless of whether he accepts or not, he is responsible for what happened to border with China and 1962. Despite 1962, Nehru stayed as PM. Can Mr. Thapar or Secretary Rao defend that and would any other PM have retained chair, had such an unfortunate incident had occurred in their rule ?
I think. Ms rao haven’t integrated the world view of communist block and US block and our position of NAM. I think chacha did a great job on trying to navigating an infant country with more than 90 percent people below poverty line and with only 12 percent people literate, to avoid the conflict. Unfortunately conflict happened
To me the only way you can explain Nehru's thinking & action is this: 0. He had design on Tibet. 1. China had a fallout with USSR - so basically zero "friends" 2. He wanted to provoke China to throw the first big punches - to set it up as the "aggressor" while setting up the Indian military to fail (lack of preparation, supplies, inexperienced ministers etc). 3. He wanted to draw the US into the fray to India's aid, like US coming down to rescue SK. (He wrote to JFK asking for help)
When in 1959 ayub khan proposed a joint indo-pak defence pact, nehru infamously rebutted the idea by saying, "defence against whom". Before '62 pak considered Afghanistan as it's most hostile neighbor because of king zahir shah's endorsement of pashtunistan. China wasn't a friend to pak either at that time because of pak's staunchly anti communist and pro western positioning. It was only because of the '62 war which was due to nehru's misreading of Chinese intentions that pak and china drew closer which eventually contributed to India being encircled by 2 nuclear armed enemies. By the time nehru realized his mistake he dispatched sheikh abdullah to Islamabad to negotiate peace settlement w pak but fate it seems had other plans since while the sheikh was dealing w pak leaders in 1964, nehru died and the mission was aborted.
Imagine if USSR and USA would hadn't gone to solve Quban crisis in 1962 , was it possible to dare Chinese dictator to enter into Tibet to occupy it challenging Macmohan line , the western powers were not liking at all to see India as a secular democracy. They were preferring to see India as a Pakistan, and Afghanistan or even Myanmar . Again Imagine Churchill was so hating India to break it into pieces and somextent succeeded in dividing united India. Nehru had clear vision British empire refused India to grant dominion status like Canada, Australia etc. These are the reasons that Nehru paid full attention over putting strong and deep rooted foundation of Indians democracy facing western tactics to make India weak . It is well-known that western were fully convinced that India democracy wouldn't last , many writers wrote who after Nehru? .Even after Indira Gandhi assassination many articles came on indian democracy fate. Now India is in comfortable position to discuss and decide the Tibet issues.
He supposedly lacked judgement, one is playing with Edwina, which was a strategy used by them to pin and hoist him to the chair, other people may not be amenable to them, you know with people like SC Bose it is very difficult to control India. So they created all problems and had a helping hand, a rich kid aka Pappu of that time.
How is Karan Thapar related to General Pran Nath Thapar the incompetent Chief Of Army Staff during 1962 war? Where is the friggin journalistic integrity? Who was army chief when Nehru was PM? What did army chief do or not do before and during the war?
What was the forward policy of India? I feel he could settle border issues with China at that time in that inhabitable mountainous area by giving some areas to China. Now we find it hard to defend that area.
The background information between 1959 to 1962, is that China was suffering from famine and that both USSR and USA were hostile to China, while India enjoyed the support from both superpowers. Importantly, Mao was almost sidelined due to big leap policy in China. Nehru wanted to take advantage of China's weak position to achieve his territory gain with China. In essence, Nehru was over confident about and overestimated Indian strength vis-a-vis Chinese, or to say that Nehru under estimated Chinese will and strength.
Today India again becomes a favorite of USA and the West. Hope history will not repeat itself and that India not make the mistake second time by overestimate its own strength and underestimate Chinese by being provocative in the border with China.
So nehru wanted to annex China land.
Exactly during the Cuban Missile Scare from 16 October - 20 November 1962 between the USSR and US the PRC attacked NEFA -20 October to 21 November 1962, so that neither big power could assist India. Mao thus blew up a multipolar world over a bi or monopolar one. in '62.
Like any other Karan Thapar interview, Mrs Rao was provoked all through, but her grace and maturity stood out. Except very briefly, she never lost her composure. Indeed great learning
So many errors of judgement by JN on Tibet and China; imagine how many others on other hot topics during the independence struggle.
I have to confess, I love this interview in all parts of to and fro! Starting from Ambassador Rao's Sir Isaiah Berlin's fox analogy to Mr.Thapar's King Lear, Coriolanus & Winter's tale references. Simply outstanding if this was impromptu! Ambassador Rao unequivocally demonstrates why she is a massively seasoned diplomat and to his credit Mr. Thapar 'kept falling off the wagon' to incriminate Mr. Nehru. The only thing that left me hankering after, was for Mr. Thapar questioning Ambassador Rao about the prospects of how India-China border dispute could come to a more meaningful solution in the future. What an abolute joy it is to hear intellectuals wrangle. :)
I am so indebted to you Karan Thapar Jee for having Ms Rao hauled over coals the way you do your characteristic impeccable way ..That is very much the Brand Karan Thapar stands for me since my childhood..😊🤭🙏❣️❣️❣️
KT is trying to save his father General Thapar COAS in handling 62 defeat by squarely blaming JN for all mistakes
Exactly. You are right..
Yes.
If she is so reluctant to defend her own arguments, why did she put them in writing in the first place ? ' Nehru is a human, just like you and me.' ' This judgement of error not mistake ' ' I didn't mean it ' what type of discussion is that ? If you lack courage to face controversies do desist from writing.
Very educative.
An honourable man Nehru
Nirupamaji,
You are just a messenger of fact! You should not feel bad about bringing the facts!
Mr Thapar's interviews should be presented in lectures to train how to research on the topic, probe with the right questions even if it is distasteful to host's own conscience, yet always maintain the dignity of the guest.
However, it is also true that the questions raised here had aroused from the interpretation drawn by the interviewer, and it might not be interpreted the same way by other thinkers. 'The Fate of a written word is decided by the reading mind'.
Rather than bringing out Ms Rao's perspective, Karan Thapar has brought out his own conclusions of a reading of Nirupama Rao's book, which is a pity. Wish Thapar would let the interviewee get a word across, instead of cutting her mid- sentence. It's to Ms Rao's credit that she maintained her perspective of Nehru of a fallible human rather than reducing him in stature, as Thapar sought to do. It's all very well to speak with hindsight. Who knows how history will judge present day icons
@@dayaprahlad6951 Despite all the so-called hindsight today's Hindus and Indians have ....We have a spate of academia ridden with intellectual dishonesty, falling all over each other and themselves straining their sense of judgement and conscience ...trying to absolve and defend the pervert crooked and pathetically dim-witted arrogant that Nehru was ...who could brook no dissent
despite counsel from GS Bajpayee, and saner voices elsewher..ignored evidence....of Chinese Stealthy land grabbing activities....its ability to foment insurgency in the North East ,,,,and influence Nepalese Communist Govt and Even US Media Organization and International Organizations like WHO using propaganda War agnst India....
Its was a regime full of crooks and turncoats who were beholden to
@@narlikar78 very silly statement full of venom .
What was role of his Daddy ? That’s something I am interested to know.
@@narlikar78 Why did Nehru promote his Dad ? Was it because Nehru was related to his mom
It is amazing that Karan Thapar does program after program on 62 without bringing up anything on the role of then Army Chief.
Was he his Father?
@@busyguy8266 yes!!! His father was the army chief
His father was the army chief, who had written complaints earlier against his boss General Timmiah. Basically family were close to the Nehru family
Yes, because he is the son of the General Thapar who believed in "cutting the throat of his peers" a phrase used much later by Gen Sunderji to describe some particular type of officers who have entered the army.
Karan sounded somewhat rude and obnoxious by attempting to put words in mouth of one of the finest Indian diplomats. Rao came across as a smart, articulate and genial person in the interview as she was during her long diplomatic career. Rao made some historical observations based on her research and concluded that Nehru despite his best intentions erred and misjudged the Chinese designs and intentions in the 50's especially after India opened its arms to Dalai Lama and provided him the asylum which was the right thing do. I admire Nehru for his intellect, faith in secular democracy and promoting higher education to achieve economic progress in such a vast, diverse and mostly illiterate nation that he inherited after the independence. There is not much debate today that Nehru and the Congress party collectively despite their best intentions also erred in putting the new nation on a path of socialism by nationalizing key economic sectors resulting in a much slower economic growth and in reduction of poverty in India compared to other nations in Asia which were at the same stage of economic development as India was in the 50's.
Karan is known for his aggressive, sometimes even abrasive!! The interviews would definitely be more watchable and enjoyable if his .annerism was better.
Karan Thapar, son of General Prannath Thapar, acting so sweet and innocent.
Nirupama Rao has chosen to use the current blame Nehru atmosphere in the country would be useful to sell some books. We need to be careful about snake like bureaucrats/intellectuals who will use anything for furthering their ambition
This is not about selling books. This is about bringing out the Truth. It is a spiritual law - TRUTH WILL ALWAYS FINALLY PREVAIL. Get rid of your bias and promote Peace!!! It is time for the world's two greatest countries to engage in cooperation, not confrontation, peace, not wars, development, not destruction of life and property!!!
Am reading this book now. Its fascinating. Something that I gleaned from the first 150 odd pages rhymes even today. There is a cable from the UK Ambassador in his 1952 despatch '' India's attitude towards China represents the most complex puzzle of Indian foreign policy. I suspect that fear is their basic motive and are horrified at the possibility of war and want to avoid any clash with China''. This is so true even today.
And the 2nd one is Indian ambassador Bajpaye giving his assesment in the early 1950's... '' they were keen to ensure that India did not increase her stature in international affairs so that China's ultimate role as the leading Asian power is not affected or threatened''. China's policy towards India has not changed much since the last 75 years.
That's strange. Some people say that Karan's father was also responsible for the debacle. His own father had a huge role in the war and here Karan is acting innocent.
First of all it's very tough to examine the roles of military men. And let's say even if his father had some role, what does that has to do with Karan?
@@Jeet-2023 Karan is claiming to know nothing about the war expect what he read in Rao's book. His father's role is seen in negative light by those who participated in the war. Please do some research. I presume you are not a child and hopefully heard of google.
@@praguhbis - my father was one of the martyred army officers in 1962 war. I know.
And again what karan's father did or my late father did....has no bearing on mine of his views or conduct. Hope you heard of sensibility?
@@Jeet-2023 You are totally missing the context, the topic is Karan's claim of not knowing anything on the war expect what he read in Rao's book.
@@Jeet-2023
I am sorry that your father was martyred; perhaps you were very young then. It is difficult to lose one's parents at any age. And their memories cling with us for the rest of our time on this earth.
Informative and enlightening interview.
I wish Karan would not try to reduce everything to a simple YES or NO! Most situations and occurrences in Life are not susceptible to such unequivocal judgements or answers.
Government then has made mistakes. Nehru is no more. You just can't keep beating Nehru as if he is going to replace present pm.. Meaninglessness.
Agree
Rubbish Karan ! The lady is not a politician. Interrupting her and making her agree to very extreme views you have arrived at is unfair, to put it politely. She has researched and put together a book for the reader to agree or otherwise.
Wasn't this man's father the Army chief when India lost the war with China quite badly back in '62?
The appointment of Karan Thapar's father Gen Pran Nath Thapar as COAS superseding Gen S.P.P. Thorat was one among many follies. Unless the Henderson Brooks Bhagat Report is declassified we will never know the entire truth.
Nirupama Rao's reply is astounding. The historical facts clearly show that Nehru, Krishna Menon and the IB Chief B.N. Mullick were entirely to blame.
The Indian Army had been whittled down to 300,000 men and we had just 22,000 men manning a 4000 km frontier. One has to read Brig John Dalvi's book 'Himalayan Blunder' to appreciate the enormity of our acts of omission and commission.
What a pathetic interview!
@@jitendivgi2761truth hurts mate
Don't be so butthurt
@@jitendivgi2761 > we had just 22,000 men manning a 4000 km frontier
I think it was DESIGNED to be so...to fail badly so as to draw USA in to help
Great interview by mr. Tharpar to uncover the truth on the China and India conflict.
@Jeet opportunist like Karan Thapad got the right chance to make Nehru the scapegoat for his forefather's incapabilities... btw I am a congress supporter and feel sorry to see him so desperate to put all the blame on Nehru. Typical Opportunist jounalist.
Karan should talk about his father's role for the debacle
Mrs Rao is hell bent of declaring that Nehru had become politically senile 19:59 that by the year 1960...to simply blind approve the Forward Policy of 1961 that incited and irked China over Indian post establishment in Aksai Chin, a unilateral Indian decision
Karan Thapad s father general thapad was also to be blamed....
Its very easy to analyse from the comfort of your home, going through all the details, and research reports of other observers, spending years on it, and then with the advantage of hindsight one concludes that Nehru is no strategist.
Highly impolite interview by Karan. Did not expect this from him. He knows it is extremely bad manners to speak over someone. He is apeing Arnab.
Sir. He started this type of interrogative style of interviewing.
He is trying hard to do it to absolve his father's role.
This is the standard Karan Thapur interview. For decades. Arnab is his foot. Learn to be knowledgeable
Dear Mr Thapar,
Wonderful interview. So basically Mrs Rao says nehru is wrong on things which in the end gave us a more complete country with 'NEFA' with us and still claims on aksai chin area
Two logically consistent books I have come across are - BN Mullick and Srinath Raghavan. Would love to see you interview Srinath Raghavan on this, if you haven't done it already
Thanx
Why blame Nehru alone. Even today, we are refusing to accept that the territory always was China's. listen to Thapar meeting with Mr Bhasin.
Amazing discussion. In awe of the vocabulary skills of both Nirupama and Karan. I watched this 3 times like watching a favorite bollywood movie. These two are my favorite hero and heroines.
"I dont care what the BJP and Mr. Modi think."
Karan being Karan 😉
Btw, let's begin by accepting we failed as a Nation and more importantly as a Society. Its 2022 and we are still in the same quagmire vis a vis Chinese. All this, when China became a Nation State in 1949, 2 years after India's independence. Shame on us.
I'm sure many Indians envy China. Envy China for its rise and the way it shows eyes to the West and has unravelled the 'World Order'. Bravo! That is the way to go for a CIVILIZATIONAL STATE. Something we must learn. Its never too late to start anew.
Karan Thapar s father's was also responsible for the debacle in nefa people seemed to forget
Who so ever fix Nehru, sure to go Rajya Sabha
Hahaha...true that. There is a beeline to fall in line of Fuhrer by fixing Nehru in supreme leaders and ecosystems narrative. Rajyasabha counter is very crowded, looks like.
Karan thapar shud do an episode on how his father general thapar was also an architect of 62 debacle.... Alongside kaul, menon and nehru
Current foreign policy failures more sound and absurd than previous ones.
... that Mrs Rao's concluding statement about PM Nehru about his greatness as a leader and the ability to accept his wrong foreign policies towards China entirely on his own shoulders ( and not his followers) reflects her ( Mrs Rao's ) diplomatic acumen as a former Ambassador/ Foreign Secretary.
Words n Sentences can be turned & twisted as per each one's perception. Whatever the human errors JN made, he did not expect the Chinese would turn the tables after 50 years or so. Also maybe, he took it lightly as, Development of his Country was more on his Mind.
Karan your dad was the General head of the Indian army during the Indo China conflict. Not a word about him as to why he resigned.
This dude is just not letting her speak!!! this is what classic mansplaining looks like!!!
You should let her complete her sentences, she's very dignified. Too much time spent on intention vs conclusion.
I condemn those who blame our freedom fighters and leaders of freedom struggle but they themseves doing nothing for the people.The anti nationals are doing all these to divert the attention of the nation from the failures of their Bhagwan Modi.
Tell me one blunder made strategically by Narendra Modi? Only incompetent fools like Nehru takes national security for a joke.
@@hirakchatterjee5240 Everything he did in foreign relation with respect Pakistan and China was nothing but blunders. Have you forgotten how he invited nawaz sharif on inauguration in 2014 only to have Pathankot and Uri two years later. He was busy showing off the 100 billion dollar investment when Xi Jinping visited India, only to get doklam 3 years later. Then his grand show off in Mamallapuram again with Xi Jinping in 2019 only to get galwan the very next year. Same can be said about Nepal bloackade, Sri Lanka and Afghanistan.
May be not a strategist but Nehru was definitely a visionary.
Karan seems very intent to have the entire blame rest on Nehru. Most Indians do believe so and Nehru himself took the blame. But Hope Karan's objective in not so petty as to exonerate his father the Army Chief at the time. Again most analysts believe that Gen Thapar was bypassed by his junior Lt Gen Kaul... Nehru's blue eyed boy who reported directly to Nehru....that itself should hv been enough a reason for Gen Thapar to put his foot down or resign. He knew well Indian Army's lack of preperation but failed to bring the same to Nehru's attention forcefully.
QED Lessons learned in the past should not be forgotten
Nirupama was brilliant. Karan a bit obnoxious. She is a great diplomat and uses her words very discreetly. Her clarity of thought is amazing. Nehru’s China policy was a delusional disaster. Our opposition was immature the Chinese deceptive and Nehru naive.
Appreciate Indian's honesty today, but imagine how difficult for us too to deal with this at that time.🚩
That attitude is still not much different today. Little has changed with how India deal with China. Indian ruling elites still think they are intellectually superior to their Chinese counterparts hence they "played" them with their undeniably better prowess in the English language. It's a form of bullying -- language bullying which is still being done today.
the same bitter kesson not learnt by Modiji since he just abrogated 370 and then made ladak as seaparate union territory which invited Xi Jinping to place all his dvisions of troops on our border.
From the mistakes and experiences of the past, should not both countries sit down NOW and resolve their border disputes. There is no time as NOW? Humanity needs cooperation, not confrontation; peace, not wars; development, not destruction! Go, go, go, India! Go, go, go, China! Go back to the Indi-Chini Bhai Bhai!!! Both countries support non-allignment! Go for Peace!
Hi Karan,
Of recent, you have been allowing your panel person to speak, but interfering in between - which is irritating to viewers & forcing us shutout.
Mr. Thapar your intimidation of the guests and putting words in their mouths is not effective journalism. Also, especially in diplomacy, you seek answers to all questions in black and white, which is unrealistic.
Mrs.Rao gave as good as she got!!
Normally o would agree. But this time the author was not straight, she was hedging and prevaricating
@@SunilMehtanim1 The deplomat in her was not ready to blame P N Thapar, karan's father on the debacle was probably the reason, even though he had his fair amount of share in the events that lead to 1962.
Unfortunately we tend to forget what was happening in china just proceeding 1962.Mao has miserably failed in The Great Leap Forward compaign and war would have been a way of distracting chinese masses.
yes, india government did know that, india gov just tried to take full advantage of Chinese mess. but unfortunately even China in a mess still had the capacity to easily crush india.
@@zengpang3177 very true. And now the wolf acting like a lamb.
@@AlleurThe wolf is pretending like a lamb. He doesn't eat u is not because he can't but by the reason that there's someone more delicious to eat.
Important point everybody forgets.
@@zengpang3177 China routed India in a few places by using sheer numbers. But India won in other places by using good military tactics, but it is not talked about because India lost the overall war. Obviously the winner writes the summary in the end. Today its totally a different matter just keep in mind.
Karan - wish you allowed Mrs Rao to speak - too many interventions.
Whether Nehru was singularly responsible or not, what is important that if the facts are known now, India should approach China to negotiate a peaceful settlement. China gets AksaiChin and India south of the McMahon line. Let the two countries then work together for a better future for both countries, and the world.
Yes. Nirupama Rao is right. Just beacuse painting Nehru is bad .. does not make BJP good... Voters need to undestand this ....
Nehru was great ...to have accepted. .....
"China has a tendency to go back on it's promises", in the mean while India going back on Kashmir plebiscite commitment made in the U.N. India going back on Junagarh's ruler wishing to join Pakistan and forcibly merging it with India .
Excellent discussion between two intellectuals and one of the best presentations of the India-China border conflict. Only one query: Thapar mentioned India giving up privileges in Tibet. But Tibet was incorporated into China in the Yuan dynasty some 600 years ago. Part of Tibet was under British occupation after Younghusband's invasion in 1901. Britain imposed a huge reparation on Tibet and it was paid for by the Manchu Emperor in Beijing, which clearly showed Britain considered Tibet to be part of China. So India's Tibet privilege seemed to be misplaced, and should not have been in Nehru's consideration on relations with China.
He (and the Indian elites) consider Tibet or part(s) of it - should be in the Indian "Sphere of Influence" (like Putin/Russia on (eastern) Ukraine.
Mr Thapar, you concentrated on pinning the blame on Mr Nehru for the event s that led to the debacle of '62. The gracious Ambassador repeatedly accepted the fact, the buck had to stop with Nehru being the PM, in addition to his own personal failings
It is however intriguing that you omitted to mention the other guilty men of 62, of which Gen PN Thapar was one of the leading figures. That by no means, is an effort to insult your late father. That said, he surely failed in equipping his army then, and further, not updating the political leadership of the state of preparedness of the army, with special reverence to the untenability of the forward policy
She's totally biased to favor the current regime in India. Watch the debate keeping current scenario and the incumbent Prime Minister in place of Nehru, it becomes too scary to handle.
Right
Nehru made mistake. Why can't Modijee make mistake. Don't ask Modijee his mistake came after 60 odd years without learning any lessons, having better equipped armed force and intelligence. After all Modijee can fallback to Chaiwala claim, but Nehru can't.
"Dosthi kaayam rahe..... "
😁
i am a indian not looking for scapegoats
The ironical and funny inside truth is that it was one of Karan Thapar's forefathers who was primarily responsible for 1962 debacle😅😅
Karan Thapar and Arnab Goswami have similar blinkered black-white outlooks and insist on brushing of nuance, wasting time of the audience asking the same thing over and over again.
So after your last dialogue with the author and your expected intended acceptance to blame Nehruji whether right or wrong only exposes you media of throwing the blame on Nehruji while the present favourable PM does blunder after blunder in chinese foreign policy, and hides behind media's error of judgement on Nehruji.
History will judge Modi too. Many skeletons waiting to come tumbling out of the closet!
Karan thapar interviewing style makes it UNWATCHABLE.
Both the political & Military establishments were at fault. Unprepared, complacent and without a clue of ground realities. No one person can be blamed. We are Indians & need to stand by our past & present establishment as far as external threats are concerned. ( However silly some of those might be!!??)
Exactly!!!!
karan awesome thank god for free media
It was a different Karan, and for personal reasons, for once, telling realities about Nehru‘a follies. Wonder when would he do that on two other blunders, on Kashmir, and on so called ‘pseudo secularism’?
what is the intent.if nehru has shortcomings he has many greatness to a great extent.His acceptance to his follies makes him great.In contrast the present rulers have tendencies to carry on with everything wrong with vegenance and take shelter under his cover and name without accepting and morally realising.Nehru's stature status vision energy education experience dedication morality wisdom patriotism and sacrifice cannot be reduced maligned marginalised snached belittled and forgotten.Frankly speaking his persona as of an architect of modern india being the first prime minister of india is unbeatable beyound comparison.
Correct. Nehru may not have been the best PM but he had the courage to admit his errors........that one aspect is totally missing in all the PM's thereafter....present included!
Yes what he did for India in the educational, medical field and engineering too is of benefit even today. During the rise in covid the medical field played a big role in saving the lives of people.
Great interview! As a writer it's your job judge...as to how our prime minister discharged his responsibility!! This is not to say he didn't do other good things! You need to set an example by judging!
What did Narsing rao did? He repeated nehru's mistakes. Modiji made another blunder by claiming PLA never entered in ladakh
Great interview.Karan Thapar in his elements but Mrs.Nirupama Rao is equally sophisticated and capable of stearing through the incisive questioning by Thapar.In the process,we the viewers are provided with nuanced insight in to what happened btn 1951and 1962
i think ,when panchasheel treaty signed by India & china, almost , all the problems should be sorted out by dialogues. we celebrated Indo- Chinni bhai bhai. Then the Tibetan refugees made the situation worse, we should have given them temporary asylum rather than permanent political asylum. May the Chinese have thought India playing double game, like one day u say we r brothers next day u r supporting their enemies. Rest is history,
If you are a Karan Thapar, remember that She is no less than Nirupama Rao. You push her hard, she repulseS your questions so delicately.
First of all, views of Rajaji, Sardar Patel, BR Ambedkar and others were NOT mentioned who had always always cautioned Nehru over his friendly China policies. When Nehru was PM and Foreign Minister, obviously, regardless of whether he accepts or not, he is responsible for what happened to border with China and 1962. Despite 1962, Nehru stayed as PM. Can Mr. Thapar or Secretary Rao defend that and would any other PM have retained chair, had such an unfortunate incident had occurred in their rule ?
he was the P M how did he not know
I think. Ms rao haven’t integrated the world view of communist block and US block and our position of NAM.
I think chacha did a great job on trying to navigating an infant country with more than 90 percent people below poverty line and with only 12 percent people literate, to avoid the conflict.
Unfortunately conflict happened
Well said.
I don't get the same impression as Karan, from the interview as she keeps repeating that Nehru is not the only one to be blamed.
43:50 After 1962 Nehru Limped remaining "18 years" of his life! What's that Karan? Nehru perhaps left us in 1964.
Exactly 😂
To me the only way you can explain Nehru's thinking & action is this:
0. He had design on Tibet.
1. China had a fallout with USSR - so basically zero "friends"
2. He wanted to provoke China to throw the first big punches - to set it up as the "aggressor" while setting up the Indian military to fail (lack of preparation, supplies, inexperienced ministers etc).
3. He wanted to draw the US into the fray to India's aid, like US coming down to rescue SK.
(He wrote to JFK asking for help)
When in 1959 ayub khan proposed a joint indo-pak defence pact, nehru infamously rebutted the idea by saying, "defence against whom". Before '62 pak considered Afghanistan as it's most hostile neighbor because of king zahir shah's endorsement of pashtunistan. China wasn't a friend to pak either at that time because of pak's staunchly anti communist and pro western positioning. It was only because of the '62 war which was due to nehru's misreading of Chinese intentions that pak and china drew closer which eventually contributed to India being encircled by 2 nuclear armed enemies. By the time nehru realized his mistake he dispatched sheikh abdullah to Islamabad to negotiate peace settlement w pak but fate it seems had other plans since while the sheikh was dealing w pak leaders in 1964, nehru died and the mission was aborted.
👏🏻👌🏻👏🏻👌🏻👏🏻👌🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Expected an intellectual discussion. Disappointed!!
Superb as usual!
Poor Nehru.
Constant disruptions from Mr. Thapar makes the watch unpleasant experience.
India could not win 1965 war against Pakistan as nehru has not prepared india from 1947 to 1964, as he believed in peace,which harmed india
Karan Thapar should have made a public disclosure that he is the son of the disgraced defeated General Thapar.
That has nothing to do with this interview!
@@Sunil5291 KT wanted to protect his disgraced Father and that's what it has to with this interview!
Good to see KARAN THAPAR'S INTERVIEW AFTER A WHILE..
Imagine if USSR and USA would hadn't gone to solve Quban crisis in 1962 , was it possible to dare Chinese dictator to enter into Tibet to occupy it challenging Macmohan line , the western powers were not liking at all to see India as a secular democracy. They were preferring to see India as a Pakistan, and Afghanistan or even Myanmar . Again Imagine Churchill was so hating India to break it into pieces and somextent succeeded in dividing united India. Nehru had clear vision British empire refused India to grant dominion status like Canada, Australia etc. These are the reasons that Nehru paid full attention over putting strong and deep rooted foundation of Indians democracy facing western tactics to make India weak . It is well-known that western were fully convinced that India democracy wouldn't last , many writers wrote who after Nehru? .Even after Indira Gandhi assassination many articles came on indian democracy fate. Now India is in comfortable position to discuss and decide the Tibet issues.
He supposedly lacked judgement, one is playing with Edwina, which was a strategy used by them to pin and hoist him to the chair, other people may not be amenable to them, you know with people like SC Bose it is very difficult to control India. So they created all problems and had a helping hand, a rich kid aka Pappu of that time.
How is Karan Thapar related to General Pran Nath Thapar the incompetent Chief Of Army Staff during 1962 war? Where is the friggin journalistic integrity?
Who was army chief when Nehru was PM? What did army chief do or not do before and during the war?
What was the forward policy of India? I feel he could settle border issues with China at that time in that inhabitable mountainous area by giving some areas to China. Now we find it hard to defend that area.
So was karan thapar's father , the then army chief
A rather childish and churlish attempt to absolve one's father.
Jay nehru jay azad jay netaji
I have a question. Did she studied the other part of Henderson Report? Please Karan ask her. One part of it is already on the net.
Kiran please ! Let her complete.
Having a majority in during his tenure was one where everyone had their viewpoints unlike today's majority.
Plz let the speaker complete her arguments. First time, I am disappointed with your show.
When did Karan Tapar start badgering people.
No allowing his guests to complete their thoughts.
Such a shame.