Why Violin Pros Have Great Tone . . . and you don’t
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 พ.ค. 2023
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The sound of a violin can either be one of the most beautiful things or cringe inducing things the human ear can experience. Most violinists are somewhere in-between. So what does it take? What does it take to get that beautiful, legendary violin tone? In this video, Murphy Music Academy director Tobiah Murphy explores the 3 things you need to create a great violin sound.
#violin #classicalmusic - เพลง
Those who had/have great teachers - who THEMSELVES were taught by great teachers - sound this way because we have the skill set. I dare say, the kind of teacher who trains students to be orchestra section players, and not soloists, don't focus on any of these things hardly, mainly because they don't even know them themselves. And it's not just three or four things, it's like 20 or 30 things really. A complete discussion of them all would be impossible to do in a small comment box like this and there is no way to learn them all in a single lesson or with just one piece. It's developed over a period of years, not in an instructional video. I'll just hit on a few, as these were what I had drummed into me for years. 1. The bow has to move with a plan. Being able to employ your bow not only as your paintbrush, but to develop a tonal palette using it, is - obviously - quite, quite important. Knowing the correct and incorrect ways of using the bow or even literally how you move the bow - is imperative. 2. Knowing the fingerboard and knowing the positions (learned from scales and some of the more useful etudes/caprices). Sounds corny, but a lot of people don't. Each note has to be deliberately placed under your fingers. Which brings me to... 3. Fingering. You have to know how to develop your own fingerings that work for you, but also those that are appropriate for a particular piece (i.e., you would not finger Bach in the same way you would Shostakovich.) 3a. If you want a dynamite left hand, you have to study some hard stuff, like Paganini. You'll learn the fine art of fingering if you have learned some of the Caprices. The more, the better...if not all 24, then at least 12 or 13 of them. 4. Vibrato must mirror the soul. You have to be able to modulate your vibrato 'ad hoc'. Same thing - Bach vibrato should be almost instinctive, and usually, very sparingly. It's baroque music. They barely used vibrato then. Tchaikovsky? Different vibrato. Mozart? Different vibrato. 5. (Last one, I have to draw the line somewhere, but this is the most important...) You have to know your own playing. You have to be the best assessor of your own work. And that involves one organ - your ears. Know how to listen to yourself. Be able to identify your own bad intonation, and know how to fix it. Know how to read a score, and do what's in the score (before you play a note.) Obey the composer's instructions, especially with dynamics and articulation. Don't let yourself get away with playing out of tune. Don't let yourself play sharp or flat except for expressive purposes, and even then, know when to use expressive intonation. People who play in tune tend to have a bigger sound, and have a larger tonal palette than those who didn't pay enough, or any, attention to intonation. BIG, BEAUTIFUL TONE = IN TUNE. Once you know these basic things, you work on developing them. The reason it takes a "real pro" to pull off a beautiful, convincing, existential, spellbinding performance of something like the Violin Concerto by Alban Berg is because they are real musicians who have mastered the art of tonality on their (stringed) instrument. They learned how to create that ideal sonic atmosphere - literally, one that "sells" (sells concert tickets and record albums...well, until posting recordings for free listening on TH-cam came along and copyright kinda went down the drain for the most part.) Thanks for reading, if you didn't TLDR this already!
All of this is 100% correct. BUT, as you were also very correct about, kind of impossible to put this into a single video. The original title was going to be "The Hierarchy of Sound Production" as I had been intending for months to make a video about the "big 3" of sound: speed, pressure and sounding point.
BUT, then I remembered I run a TH-cam channel and needed people to click on the video, hence the current title. So far it's worked, but yes, there is of course a LOT more to what makes a great soloist's sound. However, I do think that, for most violin students, these are the 3 things that will make the biggest difference as far as their bow-arm is concerned.
@@MurphyMusicAcademy Thanks for pinning my post lol! It turned into a novel, unintentionally. I'll admit, I'm not really into the TH-cam aspect of string teaching but I won't criticize others' work (videos). Maybe it works for some people. I know others capitalize off of their TH-cam videos and for some, it is their means of livelihood or their side-hustle and source of passive income. Personally I just haven't gone down that road...my formative years were in the 80s and 90s, pre-internet - we studied the instrument with no computers - and obviously, that's how all of the greatest musicians did it. Maybe online learning of classical music works for some people. Either way though, you don't get there without years of hard work, and without studying with at least one great teacher for some years. Most of one's learning takes place as they practice. And here's the most obvious thing of all that I did not mention in my earlier post - it's all about the brain. Assuming someone's upper body works well enough to play the instrument, all of violin playing is literally about how you train your own brain to do the rest of it. There is so much emphasis on the peripheral stuff - the way you stand, the way you hold the bow, posture, etc. The reason so many violinists nowadays sound the same is because they aren't taught how to think through things and really, become their own best teacher. Some people think the teacher can do their learning for them. They don't go far. Almost everything I've said here came from what I learned from one of my teachers who was very, very strict and broke a few horribly bad habits I had in my playing. In the 5-6 years I had with that teacher, not one lesson was enjoyable, but instead, it was the greatest musical education I could have hoped to have. Ok, enough!! 🙂
*Final word on fingerings - BEWARE of certain editions of concerti. Some of them completely leave out things that were in the original urtext score. Some of them have fingerings that are terrible, and which only perhaps worked for the editor themselves! If you have a score that has no fingerings or even much/any articulation indications, you will have to develop your own. So, that's a very important skill to have in your toolbox. It's not something you can get by listening to a recording, trust me on that!! LOL
that is so true. My first violin teacher was an orchestral violinist, and what he trained me for really came in handy right now when I'm playing for the youth orchestra in Glasgow, called GSSO. However, what he did not teach me was how to improve intonation generally, bowing techniques, correct bow hold, and all of that. Every piece of technique he taught me was based on a piece, and only told me how to do it on that piece. I therefore have to figure out what to do for other pieces, and as you can imagine, it was a disaster. I've been improving for the last year constantly by myself and with my teacher, although she always suggests fingerings that don't make any sense to me. I change them afterward, find what's comfy for me and that's it.
@@MM-lh3io Not everyone is a good teacher. I'm thinking back to one of my early teachers who himself was a very good violinist but he definitely didn't pass much of it along to me. Later, I realized why so many of his students sounded like crap. I might add, this teacher was a very nice man, and nice people are usually not the kinds of teachers you want. You want a teacher who is going to be brutally frank with you about what you are doing wrong. They don't have to be cruel, because that in itself is obviously not good, but by being "nice" and withholding information, or just not recognizing things, they aren't helping anyone and actually are taking money under false pretenses. This is why people change teachers sometimes. If you are looking to become more of a soloist, then you have to study with a soloist. If you just want to be a section player in an orchestra, study with another section player who knows the orchestral repertoire and can train you as such.
“…and you don’t” hurt 😭
I'm sorry, but we must all pay obeisance to the god of clickbait
In Cleveland we dont use the term "pressure". We say "weight". ...
@@thomaschristopherson5623 When I was at CIM that was not ubiquitous, though I have had a fair few teachers prefer the term weight to pressure.
@@MurphyMusicAcademyhat about playing the highest position notes on E string but pianissimo, softly and slowly? Does the fact that you need to play close to bridge and with a relatively fast bowing to resonate these high notes, condemns the sound to ever sounding mp-mf and not even close to piano? All this of considering the fact that you use just a little bow by tilting it. Asking this as a composer and a violin beginner.
I can respect this. :)
When I was younger I played violin, and it took me 10 years to discover the biggest secret to sounding better at violin... and no-one seems to teach it. I used to think I was terrible at playing, as everyone sounded so much better than me! But then I discovered playing in the bathroom improved my sound massively! Turns out a violin always sounds worse if you are within about 50cm of it... and sounds so much better if you are further away... which just happens to be how you hear everyone else play except yourself. Playing in a room with high sound reflections like a bathroom (rather than a bedroom or lounge) allows you to hear more of that mellow smooth sound reflected back to you. You should totally try it! More than that, to prove distance is important, you can also try playing your violin like a mini cello, but at fully stretched arms length in front of you, in a normal room (not bathroom). Even though your bow control will be far inferior playing like that, you'll still hear that smoother tone! Crazy! Most violinists I know were paranoid that everyone else played better than them... turns out everyone else hears you play better than you hear yourself too. So practice in the bathroom sometimes, to get a confidence boost... and then you can work on the techniques in this video to actually get even better, but knowing you don't need to be paranoid!
Instruction unclear: now I have to dry my violin.
@@friedec3622 😅
If you try playing your Violin in the bathroom, (or at arms length, like a cello), then report back your findings.
haha, thank you, this is lovely advice. will try that
@@mikedoragh746 I'm kidding.
I feel kinda notice the difference, it's slightly acoustic. Maybe that because of the material used in my bathroom (I'm using ceramics wall), or maybe because my left ear is deaf so I usually hear the sound after it bouncing from the wall.
Practicing 40hrs a day is the key😊😊
I need 20 hours extra for my day... 😅😅😅
I think the easiest way to create tone is the extreme exercises because 1) you need to hear it to believe it and 2) your hands need to have examples. Close to bridge with pressure and a very slow bow. Move a half centimeter away and do the same thing. Etc. Your ears will naturally figure out what sounds best on your instrument. Be mindful to listen to the overtones. Do it on each string. Afterward, play the piece you are working on -- all of the sudden, you realize there are more possibilities in your tone production in every section of your piece.
100% agree. You will always find your best improvement by practicing extremes
I find I tend to unintentionally do this as I'm trying to learn for fun, when the volume changes I look at the point of contact and my bow is just over the finger board.. But I am learning as a second to piano and can only afford one instrument lessons
As someone who has played the violin since I was 6, I know how to use my bow, but it feels natural to me, and thus I have to research how to teach my students to use the bow in the same way. This video was very helpful for giving me the words needed to help my students express themselves better.
Just picked up a violin a few days ago and just practicing running up and down the entire bow keeping my bow square with the violin strings I've noticed that each string requires a different pressure to make a solid sound. I think some of these things become apparent naturally if you spend enough time with each aspect. It's nice to hear you speak about this and confirm my findings.
That's true. Also if your strings are new, it will take some time to adjust before you can get consistent sound.
You’ve blown my mind. I learned more about bowing in these 9 minutes 51 seconds than I’ve learned in my entire fiddling life. Thanks!
Lol
.good for you..but if you really to be blown away by violin techniques..go search for a guy called roman kim..and see how he plays the violin...you will be mind blown to smithereens and I am not exaggerating..just youtube search the name roman kim and see how he plays god saved the king and how he solo eine Klein which he one person play 4 parts at the same time.
*52 seconds
I'm 16 and I've been playing for 10 years. I have no problems with my left hand, but I have always had trouble with getting clear and a smooth sound. This has helped an awful lot! Thanks so much, the video is easy to follow. Got yourself another subscriber
I had hand surgery two years ago on my left hand. My orthopedic surgeon plays cello and really did a fantastic job of transferring the extension tendon from my index finger to my thumb. Playing violin went out the window till I saw a couple your videos. This is going to be messy but I gained some inspiration to start over from scratch. Wish me luck. And thanks 🙏
you got this!
Good luck, don't pressure yourself!
I don't even play the violin, but I loved your explanation. It will help me to listen to violin players better and how to hear the quality of a player. Thanks!
Great video! Thanks for posting. I've always known a lot of what you taught here but never heard described like you did. Great Job!
Thanks for the class .
Very informative
me, a clarinet player: ah yes this will be very useful for my violin which is definitely in my possession
After playing the violin for 10 years and having no progress in the last 4…
This is what I needed
It totally makes sense now! 🤯
Thank you! ❤
If you haven't made any progress, you need a good teacher. Studying the violin online only works if you have a really, really good teacher who can give you video (Zoom?) lessons.
@@BenjiOrthopedicalso if they really made no progress in 4 years it’s honestly their fault. There’s always harder things you can learn to play and get better all the time
I appreciate what this man is telling people. It is valuable information. And it is also a reminder for some of us that already know it and are failing to practice it.
Exactly, this was a good reminder to me, a professional orchestral player, that I have been neglecting sounding point of late, more than I should be. Need to pay more attention to that.
Thank you so much for explaining pressure on the bow; and bow speed. Very helpful. I subscribed!
That was very informative. Thank you!
i'm a cellist so that might change things but I doubt it. Your hierarchy is out of order, its: Contact point (sounding point), bow speed, and then arm weight (not pressure). Your bow speed is entirely dictated by where you place your bow in regards to the distance from the bridge. As this is much more critical process for cello (since it's harder produce a tone, because the strings need more energy and therefore more coordination) so i'm inclined to believe you're incorrect here. I could go into the physics of why smaller string movement width (from side to side) at the bridge, means smaller spaced contacts with the bow as it moves across, this of course dictates a slower bow speed as there are more contacts with the string over the length of the bow. I think you know what i mean, you shouldn't be messing up the fundamentals if you're going to be an 'expert' on youtube. you see people not everyone who can play really well, can also explain what they're doing really well. This is a well known dynamic in the classical world. mastering the 3 fundamentals is important, but the other side of that especially for cellists is learning to control your arm from the shoulder down, not the fingers up. this makes the biggest difference for cellists as it gives you the ability to efficiently apply force in a horizontal direction, the fingers up approach will leave you stuck with only the ability to control a vertical force, which will give you a terrible and pressed sound.
Thank you for sharing this 3 rules! They are very useful and helpful ❤
Loved it, thanks❤ Hoping you would have more subscribers this year🎉
Thanks! Great information.
Fantastic! Instant bookmark! Thanks for putting this out there!
Awesome lesson with great reminders of how to create natural resonance from our string instruments. Thank you for sharing your instructional ideas with us. I found them helpful.
Thank you Sir for sharing your expertise
thank you so much! I'm working on Lalo 1st movement (and also Bach partitar no. 3 gavotte en rondeau) and this truly helps a lot, even my violin teacher told me i tend to use a lot of pressure but i didn't realize how less prioritized pressure is in getting the sound i want. i'm definitely going to experiment more with it!!
omg you're right, this for me sounds much better now. once again you've helped me feel not only like i can apply rules given to me, but understand why those principles exist in the first place. thank you
Thanks for the video very helpful
I love your video! Great explaination❤
Very well explained. All of this is exactly what I'm always telling my students! It's all easier said than done of course - getting to a point where you can precisely control your bow speed, bow placement, and bow pressure simultaneously takes years of practice. Being aware of the basic principles is a good start though.
After wanting a violin for almost 3 years, im finally going to get one this december! your video helps me so much in understanding the instrument better since im completely a beginner on the violin.🎉
Be prepared to not be good at it for like 2yrs! Also, i use to play on a 4/4 cause im tall an have broad shoulders.. I tried a 3/4 and i much rather it.. If you can practise on both, do that before you buy! Goodluck.
@@elleari89 thank you for your advice ! I will be working hard.
Makes sense, thank you!😃
Learned many things! Much appreciated, you're a big help!
So helpful- Thank you!!
Finally, I lessened the creaking sounds that I get everytime I play my violin. Thank you for this video :)
Thank you so much. This was news to me and I´m sure will help me a lot. Blessings.
I appreciate these thoughts. I’ll be thinking about this next time I play. Especially the sounding point.
Thank you! Very instructive and straight to the point!
Will most definitely make use of this...will get back to you 🙏
Yes, very helpful to this viola newbie :)
Thank you for all your great vids.
Tim O
I really like this guy's videos. He gives real practical advice on many violin topics.
There are also really small thing that give you better tone quality, Like good posture and having a good bow hold. Having a good bow hold gives you more control over the bow, and most bow techniques require a good bow hold. Ex: Wrist movement. Good posture should make you more in tune, raising your. violin/viola high makes gravity force your bow into the best point for sound quality.
100% agree. However, I can't quite cover everything in a single video, and these are kind of a "big 3" when it comes to sound production.
Awesome thank you!!
Yes, it helped immensely. Thank you.
Thanks, very useful information!
Thank you so much this really helped
I was about to give up on violin but you helped me out so much! Thank you
Thanks, great video!
Love the ground rules. I’ve heard the sounding point, pressure, speed explanation many times… but the ground rules help a lot. Also getting real about the fact that most of us could get more bow speed if we improve our technique.
Gonna experiment wth these tips ❤ . THANK YOU.
Thank you so much it’s very helpful
WOW! That was a great video! I have always wanted to know that.
Great tips! Thx
Thank you for this
Oh yes! This lesson helped me! My playing sounds much better already! Thanks!
Wonderful information, even for someone who does not play the violin, but who is fascinated by the acoustics of all musical instruments. Thanks !
I can't stress enough the use of a well balanced practice. Some teachers only use Suzuki repertoire. Students must be guided into major, minor and modal scales too. Arpeggios and useful etude studies. I love for my students to study the Wolfhart foundation Studies, Mazas, and like repertoire. So many tried and true. In retrospect my biggest lack as a student ( back in the day) was double stop playing. It haunts me to this day. My teachers barely had me study double stops. 😢 Do it and listen listen listen.
I have a very good comment section today! This is excellent advice and something I follow with all of my students as much as they are able (and willing. You can only add as much as the student is willing to practice)
Beautiful practical high level explanation!!
Many thanks!!!
😎Thanks a lot for this video! ☕️I’m at that stage where
I need to be reminded of this stuff !! 👍👨🏻
🎻🥳
That is easily the best violin lesson that I have seen on TH-cam!
very good advices , thanks a lot Murphy . Greetings from Brazil
Beautiful sharing. Really like this clip. A violinist from Paris. 😊
You're an amazing violinist and teacher!
Loved this video. You explain things very easily and quickly. Sometimes I will hear dreadful sounds coming from my violin, and I’m sure it’s because my bow arm isn’t as good as my left hand.
Nah, it's the violin demon.
This video definitely helped me realize getting good tone isn't just about have your fingers in the right place. Ill definitely take this into consideration when practicing.
Thank you!!
Thank You so much for your teaching it realy help me to improve my sound on my violín 🎻
Amazing. Shall practice. Thank you.
thanks!
subscribed.
Thank you for this very basic, helpful information. I believe I have been using too much pressure in my effort to "play into the string."
I can’t tell you how much this video has helped in the matter of an hour of watching this. Thank you
Thank you for this basic, helpful information. I have never been successful in balancing these 3 factors for tone production. Now I have some tools for improvement! I suspect I have been using too much pressure in my effort to "play into the string."
This is fantastic. 😍
huh, the higher you go, the shorter the string vibration, shrinking toward the bridge, so of course you have to move the bow closer to it as well. Can't believe I never thought of that!
Sounds like good advice ... will try.
Well done! I feel like I have been given the tools to produce the results I am wanting. Thank you so much for sharing your skills as a teacher and musician.
Great ! thank you!
Brilliant!
Things my violin teacher never taught me. Thanks so much for this informative video. I am putting it into practice now.
Many thanks for the tips.
You’re very welcome!
💥 Thanks. So good. Jeff
Thanks, good advises.
Excellent lesson...excellent comments...
Great video! I have been playing violin for several years, and your video opened my eyes on the relationship between the 3 variables. Thank you so much. By the way, what chin rest do you use?
I've never been told to prioritize this way. I've been using pressure first then bow speed. I'll try using speed first. Thanks. Not many instructors get into the details of techniques. I look forward to watching more of your videos. Especially videos about how to do the different bow strokes.
Pressing too hard is a VERY common rookie mistake. We ALL do it. I tell you what though, the day I realized what to prioritize in sound production really changed everything for me.
@@MurphyMusicAcademy You are right, pressing hard is a mistake. However, not all do it.
@@MishaSkripach I hi-lighted this particular issue as it’s a very common student mistake, and certainly a mistake I made as a student.
@@MurphyMusicAcademy You are saying hte right thing, the man criticising you has all his students gripping their bows the wrong way, so havign to press down.
Thank you Tobias for this wonderful lesson
I just discovered you today on TH-cam
I live far away from you on the West Coast ALAMEDA
I am an old man of 78
I am a violinist and I play every Sunday at my church
My sound is okay but I realize that I need work
I now realize that you can help me with my playing
Unfortunately with such a busy life and family I get depressed because I know that in order to master my violin 🎻 must practice many hours 🎼🎼🎻🎻👍😞
You play beautifully. I am going on 5 yrs. Playing. I love it!! ❤️😃👌🌺
my second attempt on wqtching yhe video fully and It took me almosy two years to finally get the gist or message of what this video is all about
Thanks again 😮
Great video i will be going to violin 🎻 classes very soon
I enjoy learning more about the refinement of the classical approach to playing the violin. I am not playing to be or sound like anybody else, but rather to be able to express myself through this instrument. I am a composer on a journey. Thank you for your willingness to share these gems of experience and information for those of us who may be searching. I resonate with your purpose and wish you success in your endeavors.
It's very hard. I get frustrated with the sound of my instrument 😔
Good advice, except please substitute the word “pressure “ for “natural weight of the arm”. The natural weight of the arm will produce all the depth of sound and volume anyone could ever want. All the other aspects are applications used to refine that basic sound. Good listening skills and keeping as relaxed as possible are essential. Also, breathing with the bowing and phrasing of the music has an almost magical effect allowing all the technical minutiae to slip into place producing the desired result.
Wow. I'm 62 and just picking the violin back up. I started when I was 6 and took lessons for around 9 years... then being the 70's and it wasn't "cool", I found pot and a guitar, and that was it. It is about my only life-long regret, but at least I am starting back up, yes? Anyway, I was never taught vibrato, anything beyond first-position, or ANYTHING remotely close to what is explained in this video, and it's opened my eyes. (fingers?) I have a long, LONG way to go. In any case... yeah I suck... but this is really helpful, so will add it to my process, thanks!
Thank you🤗
Perfect ❤
There’s 4 factors. The tilt of the bow is also important. That controls the amount of hair that comes in contact with the string.
If we are going to be super specific, then there are 5: I'd at the angle of the bow to that list as well, which can really effect the sound, especially when playing a pianissimo that you want heard at the back of the hall, but these are the "big 3." My original title for the video was going to be "the Heirarchy of Sound Production," but then I realized I actually needed people to click on the video.
@@MurphyMusicAcademy Which is the fifth factor?
@@No-pm4ss the three I covered in the video: speed, pressure, and sounding point. Then tilt, which Mr. Stuart mentioned, and lastly angle. That makes 5
@@MurphyMusicAcademy oh do you mean the ”yaw” (if you will) of the bow? Changing the angle so the bow is not perpendicular to the strings?
@@No-pm4ss yes
Having a well set up quality instrument, together with good quality fresh strings and a decent bow, are additional factors that shouldn't be overlooked when thinking about the quality of tone production.
Exactly. You can't make music on a shitbox (stringed instrument) or a bugle! LOL
@@moooobkityy8 my grandfather's violin was brought down from the attic when i wanted to learn. Only later when exposed to a really good hand made violin i realised it wasn't me that was so bad it was the violin
I thought one of the answers would be strings. I went from metal to gut in high school, a long time ago, but recently they put some other kind of strings that sounded like butter, so smooth!
VERY helpful
You're a genius! Thanks for explaining so clearly. It makes it so much easier to understand how these three things interact with each other and how it affects your sound. Thank you!