Simple: the IADS is turned off. Radar modules burn out if left on over time, those are expensive and Oleg wants the maintenance budget to buy him a BMW, so they stay off.
If indeed it was not a false flag. I think not but it could be the case. Remember, Russians in an apartment complex called the cops on sus looking individuals. Turns out they were placing bombs and got let go *fast.* Why? They were on a false flag operation to frame Chechens. So they are no stranger to these kinds of things.
@F. A. Do you think that it could be possible the Heli strike were Russian Hinds going into Ukraine, getting lost, flying back into Russia and striking what they think is a Ukrainian target?
@@totalnerd5674 I mean anything is possible, but the extremely sensitive nature of the target (oil depot in the middle of a huge Russian retreat/relocation of offensive units, the Russian army being train-based and extremely limited in terms of truck logistics, compounded by already-high logistical losses in the Kyiv/Kharkiv/Sumy campaign) makes me really think that this was a Ukrainian attack meant to disrupt Russian offensive maneuvers for as long as possible.
That was incredible flying! It is incredible how close you were to a s300 pmu2/sa 20 gargoyles and the sa 23 Gladiators And the sa 17 buk sites! This is the power of flying low and slow!
14:00 my grandpa was an f111 aardvark pilot, and I remember him telling me the autopilot had a terrain following mode where it would roll inverted over hills
Helicopters can go very low, at considerable speed. I have sat in a Westland Wessex, in the 90's, flown from Hobart's Barracks (3 Royal Tank Regiment Detmold Germany) below the tops of trees (forest) as a demonstration. At one moment, I was looking out the door and looked a horse in the face... (THIS low). This was while I was serving in the Dutch Airforce as a Stinger Operator in the 3GGW (3rd group guided weapons) 328Sqn (Our little H.A.W.K. base was located @ 51°53'43.9"N 9°13'47.3"E ,near the village of Schwalenberg) We trained with the U.K. helicopters, which were attached to the tank regiment.
Absolutely correct. Also the Ukrainians are fighting for their country over terrain they know. They can fly at night with infra-red in an urban setting!
There is also two Ukrainian transport choppers (MI-8 or MI-17s) we’re sneaking in and out Mariupol to deliver supply’s and bring out wounded troops. They had an established route and flying low 10 meters.
Correction there were 5 Ukrainian helicopters attempting to evacuate the Azov leadership and Western advisors from Mariupol. They failed and 3 out of 5 were shot down. But when it comes to the case of Belgorod, the Russians thought them as their own choppers and no thus no air defense fired at them. Supposedly Mi-24 do not have IFF or they were turned off.
The question I have is how often does a proper IAD actually exist? If ERA tiles are being left empty, how many gargoyles actually have full ammo or are present at all?
The United States trains regularly with it's allies with interoperability exercises, all arms coordination and IAD exercises. American and other allies get more training, hands-on, and simulator than Russia does.
Outside of cleptocracies quite often. When you do not steal money for machines, spare parts, ammo, fuel and operator training it is actually rather tested and proven. Also helps when you half train your crew, not let them finish their conscript term or short contract they signed to get bit more money than conscripts ... Most reasonable armies only put pros on such systems. Only reloading crew can be short term guys under supervision of pro ofc. My uncle worked on S300 we had for severals year and will tell that he still occasionally found out new quirks of system he previously not encountered ... (partially cos there was also limited budget too :) ) And he is the tryhard guy ...
It really depends. The U.S. will do a battlefield prep/assessment of expected adversaries and will generate a risk assessment and feasibility of establishing an IADS in theater. They might say determine that manpads are good enough for protection. So TW/EW detects a threat, notifies COCOM, COCOM AOC/JAOC will contact the regional command or call the nearest troop with manpads and warn them to engage. Now, that is top of the line IADS support with proper training and funding which not all nations can afford.
@@davidlabedz2046 It would be curious if the Russians teach their guys up to the level of what may as well be electronics technicians to know most of the theories and principles which the equipment operates upon. That with training that may go over a month, and perhaps by people that worked at the company that made the thing. Or are they just given a manual with summarized instructions and "Here, you have a week to figure this out." The way in which operator qualifications are determined may make a huge difference, despite the capabilities of the vehicles and equipment itself. Even if in operation some equipment can be dumbed down to point and shoot, knowing a lot more to understand the capability vs. limitations can go a long way.
One thing that nobody has brought up is that even China during peacetime turns off its SAM systems when flying missions because of the risk of friendly fire, integrating air defences with live combat missions is very very hard. I think that yes it is possible for them to have flown a super low lvl route and avoided being fired on but more likely the Russians have been flying sorties and they have probably been using a safe corridor for them to fly in and out without risking friendly fire and the Ukrainians took advantage of either ongoing Russian air ops to sneak in or the corridor just being left open in general. It is also just as likely that these sites were operational but based on the propaganda the Russians have been telling everyone I could believe it if you told me that the operators thought that 90% of the air force had been destroyed and thus were never expecting any hostile to penetrate their airspace. I am also curious how long these systems can be kept continuously running, I know some of the CIWS systems reportedly have issues being on for extended periods of time because of wear and tear on the components and heating issues so they are only activated when an imminent threat is expected or present.
Has anyone ever thought to build a cheap target drone that could mimic a real combat aircraft on radar. So we could get the Russians to waste their advanced SAM's on it. They only have so many and they are expensive.
I think that's what the future is going to hold - each plane attack getting covered by a swarm of 50+ cheap drones/missiles to distract the AA. When your radar needs to pick up targets with the radar crosssection of a smartphone from 100 miles away, it should be possible to generate a number of juicy targets pretty simple.
@@rubiconnn lol fair play, you wouldn't believe the crazy things people are saying about this war though recently so it wasn't easy for me to tell. For some reason i didn't see the " Simbar for the raid." :D
Several military commentators have mentioned the lack of an effective Russian IADS in Ukraine. The poor state of Russian operators training and lack of proper maintenance. THE RUSSIANS don't train as much as NATO and American forces.
Exactly. And also the depressive performance of the Russian air force. I wonder how accurate these flight simulator models are. So far, Russian air defence was ineffective. The same goes for their figther jets and bombers.
@@PieterBreda Bitch Russians are making air strikes from their Air space the only things we see in Ukraine Are CAS jets(SU25) and helicopters 2nd of all how do Russians don't train as much as NATO and America? that is a retarded statement Russians train a whole lot they have some of the harshest training Last year Russians lost 9000 Troops in the Ural mountain training
You guys are being a bit silly, The Russian rather not bomb Ukraine to the stone age, which is the western way that results in a lot of local hate afterward. there has not been a large scale air assault. they barely lost planes, and they have total air dominance, shown by them bombing any target at will. how many hours of training do the Russians do? its not good to underestimate a rival, the west needs to sort itself out before we get hammered. The British army was thinking of getting rid of its tanks, idiots.
It's important to note that the Patriot is a significantly better system from what it was in the 90s. It's unfair to compare what's in DCS - even in an IADS - to a real system. The system running today is not 30 years old, it's based on a system of that age, but it has been radically improved, akin to how the SA-21 is based on the 80s SA-10. Many important factors were learned during the Gulf Wars. The Russians have renamed their SA-10 over the years as they generationally improved them - we simply have kept the name the same. throughout.
12:25 do those big sams have a self arming distance? i mean i suppose if you can get like "over" them theres a good chance you can put that rotary cannon to use lol
I've been told that helicopters can't notch radar systems because while the helicopter can be as motionless as the terrain clutter, the rotors can't and will be picked up by the radar.
There are other factors, like you know what is terrain feature and what just appeared as new "terrain feature" Also unless flying in between trees you tend to be above terrain etc. Modern radars can discern between static terrain feature and new things (at least to some extent). When you start radar at new placement you " neutralize returns from known terrain features, helo would stand out on "cleared" image. That is if you radar crew know that they have to do it and do know how to do it. Some really modern radar may do it fully automatically, to an extent yet again ... And you have to look/mark for blind spots (like behind hill) using you own aircraft ... and cover that alleyway with something else, like solitary IR guided SAM, few blokes with stingers. Something tells me that It is not done in UA properly (requires trained and experienced crew) and GR overdid it a lot on other hand ... Also composite rotors have relatively low return. Though mi24 has metal ones.
@@klonik79 In theory a stationary radar should be able to just look at the difference from one scan to the next with no notch filter at all, anything that's different is something that moved. Basically background removal with a new background every time around. OTOH the most basic version of that could end up being massively susceptible to jamming. Actually what I've wondered about is has anyone tried putting a full blown detection radar on a missile? One fun system to play with on paper would be a sounding rocket that can lob a ton or so up to 100 miles. You could get rapid response look-down radar for about 4-6 minutes out of that which should be long enough to given initial guidance to a fully active SAM for an over the horizon shot. Combined with an acoustic array (e.g. toss a bunch of "cell phones" around the country side) so you can know when there's something for your ballistic radar to see and that could be rather troublesome.
Thank you very much! From the moment i saw the first video, i thought about your videos and how epic it would be to replay this operation. It would be interesting to compare the Apache against the Mi 24. As always thank you very, very much.
What actually occured.. Simba got lost again, everyone else drew the IADS attention, so they were looking in the wrong direction while he flew right in.. LOL Great flying Simba!
Whats important in the oil refinery strike video is what we cannot see. For all we know many helicopters were shot down on the way and those 2 are whats left.
Even if they do, remember that these systems just see "su27" su25" "mi24". They cannot know whose helicopters those are or whose planes those are. Friendly fire is very risky.
I guess the trick for this is to fly nap of the Earth, below trees or other obstructions to the target, and to do that you need precise mapping, planning and flying. If you do that you have a good chance so long as you don't run into AAA, MANPADS, VSHORAD or SHORAD systems (with line of sight.) Great video, great flying Simba. :)
With a human operator who actually knows what they are doing and is expecting some sort of incursion; probably better*. I expect the reason it went the way it did in real life is that the quantity of Russian assets operating together with no strikes up to that point made the operators complacent. The Ukrainians were probably aware that aircraft were regularly going back and forth with lax IFF, and exploited that, rather than the radars being unable to see them. *Helicopters are extremely hard to hide from radars, because the rotors are always giving off a broad spectrum return that is easily distinguished from the ground. It might be hard to get an exact fix, but they are hard to hide completely, and once a human is actively looking and know what they are looking for, finding it is a matter of when, not if. I think it far more likely that there were no people looking, rather than they couldn't find them.
@@agsystems8220 great comment, thanks. It’s also possible that the Russians were a bit overconfident, thinking that those choppers had to be friendly. It reminds me of the story about the time when Israel attacked a nuclear reactor in Iraq years ago. When their F-16s passed through Jordan, they got on the radio and pretended to be lost Jordanian pilots. It totally worked.
During my aerobatic training I flew with a WW II Polish RAF vet who demoed low flight ( 3ft off ground). He hoped over fences at full throttle, full flaps. His skill was amazing. He claimed he could penetrate enemy radar virtually undetected, and that the AA could not depress low enough to hit him. That left small arms fire, and a 1 second burst could eliminate that if he accidentally encountered them (Was not looking where he was going!)!
Great video content Cap. Go Simba!!! Fantastic flying!!!! One note, I'm not sure if anyone else had this but the compression was pretty bad on this video. Was like it was filmed on a potato. Scratch that .... restarted the video and it was all good 👍
great video! Simba is a legend! i also doubt the Ukrainians managed this without some help, assuming they did do it. maybe they got russian iff codes or something.
Is there any chance you could share the Mission file, like the one you shared of the MEGA IADS Island attack that Kortana set up? Would love to see how I do with a Huey or an Apache.
Would love to see this done with Cobras or Vipers when/if they become available. Image if there was a drone small enough to carry rocket pods, small enough to go through the forests and towns to hit it's target.
Has Simba got a chance. He'll barrel that big old Mi 24 in there so low He'll be frying chickens in the barnyards with his jet exhausts. Might get him with a harpoon gun but they ain't going to see him with no danged radar. Credits to 'Turgidson' and 'Kong'.
(A) Ukrainian pilots know the terrain; (B) IADS has to figure out that it's a hostile, which they wouldn't expect; (C) They are trained to ask permission to pee; (D) The competence of Russian C&C is questionable; (E) We don't know if they got back safely.
The thing is, if the russians had indeed shot down the Hinds that did the attack, they would be jumping up and down how the evil ukrainians attacked civilian target but the heroic Russian Army was able to shoot them down before they bombed an orphanage, with showing off the wreckage of the helis. But as there has not been any of that I would guess that the helis survived the attack.
*Thank you* for explicitly noting that "firing range" is the thing impacted by target approach speed. It might be commonly assumed by people who know the context that that is what's being talked about by "range", but my default interpretation from experience in other domains always wants to see the basic term "range" apply to the thing that is impacted by the fewest parameters; that is the range from the launcher to the point of intercept.
Now I understand why they turn out to the East side(Russian side) after the target had been hit, not directly to the South. There is a lake to the East of Belgorod!
Maybe what you guys need to try is a 'combined air group' attack. Have Su27s or Su25s take out a SAM system or two (if they're capable of that) then send in the Mi24s? SIMBA-WIMBA FTW!!!
This is exactly where a manpad would come in handy at the oil tank location. IAD if fine but you got to be able to shoot what you can see right in front of you.
If you are a new viewer I would personally recommend watching the radar tutorials on this channel it would help you to better understand the "Ebb and Flow" of radar and its specific advantages and disadvantages for each airframe / support radar systems. otherwise you need to go do all the research that these fine people here have done for our entertainment. :) thanks Reapers. P.S. I am still waiting to see the beautiful P-38 intercept some Japanese Aircraft. o7
If instead of an open rotor, they'd use mulitple ducted fans like your typical RC drone, would that make them the perfect stealthy ground attack vehicle? Imagine large octocopters with long range missiles creeping up on SAM sites just like demonstrated in video.
Is there anything like an ISEAD/IDEAD? A similarly integrated approach to *attacking* air defenses? Say systems that allow HARM strike to be ToT coordinated all the way to multiple radars? "Unless you shut *everything* off, *something* will get destroyed." Or maybe use ITALD's with the sensor package from a HARM to allow triangulating radars from standoff distances? (If you can time synchronize the same radar signal from multiple observers, you should be able to get the transmitter's location to a similar accuracy as the radar can spot it's targets.)
Has Sky Sabre been added to the game? If so I would be interested to see Russia/ China vs British IADS. Even though Rapier has been taken out of active service now I think it would be interesting to include that in the defences, along with MANPADS. And it’s possible Ukraine used captured Russian heli’s so the Russian air defences would have just seen one of many Russian helicopters flying around. I’m sure they have a Friend or Foe system built in.
18:13 This also doesn't take into account potential human failure/fog of war. The Ukrainian Airforce has been decimated. Would any potential SAM ops be on Red Alert and if they sighted the Mi24s how would they guarantee IFF?
Especially as there is reports(intercepted comms) they accidentally shot down several of their own a/c which Ukraine "claimed." I mean you're not gonna come out and say "no you didn't we shot our own down!"
You know that decimation in reality means 1 out 10 ? or tenth ? And yes I know RU reported enough airplanes shot down to hamper NATO much less UA, whose stock is about 3 or 4 times lower than reported air kills
Completely off in left field here but I wonder. If it was Ukraine could they have received some outside help from someone with some sort of top secret jamming capability or even some sort of DDS style attack? That or access and egress planning?
In Mariupol Ukrainians were able to get helicopters in to get supplies in and wounded out. Now Russia is using a helicopter blockade. I would like to see how that works because I never imagined it being a thing.
Should it be considered too that Eastern Ukrainian terrain is a lot more flat and open than this region of Russia in game? I may be wrong, so correct me if I am, but shouldn't the terrain look a lot more like it did around 21:00 in the video, with the large open fields divided by narrow tree lines at distant intervals. If that's the case I feel like that would be important to try testing as well, since the majority of the traveling being done would actually be behind trees rather than above them?
Ok no special info from me... but firstly you might want to remember that the Belgorod depot was destroyed by an OTR-21 Tochka-U ballistic missile fired by the Ukrainian 19th missile brigade on 29th of march. SAM systems may have been redeployed based on this and a "window of opportunity" may have occurred for a couple of Ukrainian Choppers to do the rest on the Oil Depot. There may have been no defensive SAM net at all for the choppers to evade !! and at night Man pads are much less effective as general situational awareness is much lower.
@@aksmex2576 yes I am saying the choppers got in when the Sam's turned off their radars to redeploy...if your in territory that's getting hit with ballistic missiles you don't want to sit on one place too long.
@@passivehouseaustralia4406 on paper they should shoot down missiles too so it wouldn't make sense to turn off. Idk if they can shoot down ballistic missiles.
Would be nice to see a WW2 strike, using Mozzie’s, Jugs or Mustangs take on the IADS system, either down low or high up, Would love to fly with Sock on that mission
Ukraine-Russia Series:
Fulcrum/Flanker vs Foxbat/Super Flanker: th-cam.com/video/BhXfxc94JAU/w-d-xo.html
NASAMS vs Russian Cruise Missiles: th-cam.com/video/pJI_b95jzpk/w-d-xo.html
Russian KH-47M2 vs Polish Air Force: th-cam.com/video/cnrVxqL5q9w/w-d-xo.html
Su-27 & Drone vs Snake Island: th-cam.com/video/T_oRoU2Ayfo/w-d-xo.html
Su-25s vs Russian Convoy At Kyiv: th-cam.com/video/ryV65bUJzrw/w-d-xo.html
NATO Eurofighters vs Crimean AWACS: th-cam.com/video/EiJ2dFRh95g/w-d-xo.html
Patriot, Gepard & Gripen vs KH-65: th-cam.com/video/ZhxdrNjig1g/w-d-xo.html
A-10s vs Russian Convoy At Kyiv: th-cam.com/video/B0tZoo0uLh4/w-d-xo.html
USN Tomahawk Strike Kerch Bridge: th-cam.com/video/0vpi8xBygV8/w-d-xo.html
USAF Stealth Strike Kerch Bridge: th-cam.com/video/IJbf9Bcxnw0/w-d-xo.html
Ukrainian Jets Strike Kerch Bridge: th-cam.com/video/I8FumuZReB4/w-d-xo.html
F-22 Raptors vs Russian Fighters: th-cam.com/video/ComRcmrwJWk/w-d-xo.html
Raptor/Eagle vs Super Flanker: th-cam.com/video/keqYmuSEo-8/w-d-xo.html
USAF Bombers vs Mariupol Defenses: th-cam.com/video/aCsboOG0QU4/w-d-xo.html
Ukraine Bombs Snake Island: th-cam.com/video/BX696MKdkb8/w-d-xo.html
Stealth Fighters vs Russian Bombers: th-cam.com/video/rym90jnQDsA/w-d-xo.html
Sinking Of Moskva #3: th-cam.com/video/NIjoyIieOzY/w-d-xo.html
Sinking Of Moskva #2: th-cam.com/video/snjfbj_EwW4/w-d-xo.html
Sinking Of Moskva #1: th-cam.com/video/Bxwh6MGLJNc/w-d-xo.html
Russia Nukes Britain: th-cam.com/video/rzk45RFQwA8/w-d-xo.html
Ukraine Uses Danish F-16s: th-cam.com/video/17Pikrp0QaY/w-d-xo.html
Ukraine Uses Polish Mig-29s: th-cam.com/video/zCi4tAIzuOU/w-d-xo.html
Russian-Britain Missile Attack: th-cam.com/video/zwIGfabvzHA/w-d-xo.html
Ghost Of Kyiv: th-cam.com/video/Yrct8V4n1-U/w-d-xo.html
Belgorod Raid: th-cam.com/video/mQykTxt6ftw/w-d-xo.html
Eurofighter/Fulcrum vs Super Flanker: th-cam.com/video/MPyIipEhgR0/w-d-xo.html
US Strike vs Odessa th-cam.com/video/KeiOHgzic6Y/w-d-xo.html
Russian Helo Rocket Lob: th-cam.com/video/118GgGnP_sM/w-d-xo.html
Russian Su-25 vs US Patriot SAM: th-cam.com/video/asp69ZD_tO0/w-d-xo.html
Understanding Russian SAMs: th-cam.com/video/R4xTxLNZXcw/w-d-xo.html
Ukrainian Jets Road Operations: th-cam.com/video/hBpzQhinPbw/w-d-xo.html
Russian 40 Mile Convoy: th-cam.com/video/Vr_-2FLblBk/w-d-xo.html
Flanker vs Super Flanker: th-cam.com/video/VOAuOFLJGk4/w-d-xo.html
Simple: the IADS is turned off. Radar modules burn out if left on over time, those are expensive and Oleg wants the maintenance budget to buy him a BMW, so they stay off.
If indeed it was not a false flag. I think not but it could be the case.
Remember, Russians in an apartment complex called the cops on sus looking individuals. Turns out they were placing bombs and got let go *fast.* Why? They were on a false flag operation to frame Chechens.
So they are no stranger to these kinds of things.
@F. A. My squadron lost an F/A-18C during Iraqi freedom to a patriot.
@F. A. Do you think that it could be possible the Heli strike were Russian Hinds going into Ukraine, getting lost, flying back into Russia and striking what they think is a Ukrainian target?
@@totalnerd5674 I mean anything is possible, but the extremely sensitive nature of the target (oil depot in the middle of a huge Russian retreat/relocation of offensive units, the Russian army being train-based and extremely limited in terms of truck logistics, compounded by already-high logistical losses in the Kyiv/Kharkiv/Sumy campaign) makes me really think that this was a Ukrainian attack meant to disrupt Russian offensive maneuvers for as long as possible.
@@BrorealeK Yeah, that makes more sense honestly
Dude Simba! Nice work man! That was the most impressive Hind flying I’ve ever seen.
Aside from the real thing perhaps?
I just tried todo my part. Thanks for the support
That was incredible flying!
It is incredible how close you were to a s300 pmu2/sa 20 gargoyles and the sa 23 Gladiators And the sa 17 buk sites!
This is the power of flying low and slow!
@@simba1113 you’ve been a nice addition to these videos. Can’t say that for everyone else. :)
@@simba1113 nice one, do you reckon it's easier to hit objects in real life or in sim? I.e. tree tops...etc
14:00 my grandpa was an f111 aardvark pilot, and I remember him telling me the autopilot had a terrain following mode where it would roll inverted over hills
As a former Aardvark maintainer, SALUTE to your grandpa! Much respect!
I wouldn't feel comfortable letting an autopilot do that.
Helicopters can go very low, at considerable speed.
I have sat in a Westland Wessex, in the 90's, flown from Hobart's Barracks (3 Royal Tank Regiment Detmold Germany) below the tops of trees (forest) as a demonstration.
At one moment, I was looking out the door and looked a horse in the face... (THIS low).
This was while I was serving in the Dutch Airforce as a Stinger Operator in the 3GGW (3rd group guided weapons) 328Sqn (Our little H.A.W.K. base was located @ 51°53'43.9"N 9°13'47.3"E ,near the village of Schwalenberg)
We trained with the U.K. helicopters, which were attached to the tank regiment.
Absolutely correct. Also the Ukrainians are fighting for their country over terrain they know. They can fly at night with infra-red in an urban setting!
There is also two Ukrainian transport choppers (MI-8 or MI-17s) we’re sneaking in and out Mariupol to deliver supply’s and bring out wounded troops. They had an established route and flying low 10 meters.
Correction there were 5 Ukrainian helicopters attempting to evacuate the Azov leadership and Western advisors from Mariupol. They failed and 3 out of 5 were shot down. But when it comes to the case of Belgorod, the Russians thought them as their own choppers and no thus no air defense fired at them. Supposedly Mi-24 do not have IFF or they were turned off.
1 was shot down. All others made it.
@@chrisparker2118 EDIT: They had sent 5 helicopters, out of which 3 were shot down and 2 fled.
@@CloneDAnonYet, only one confirmed wreck site.
@@chrisparker2118 At least one also fell into the sea. One might have fallen into enemy territory and one escaped (without succeeding in its mission).
The question I have is how often does a proper IAD actually exist? If ERA tiles are being left empty, how many gargoyles actually have full ammo or are present at all?
The United States trains regularly with it's allies with interoperability exercises, all arms coordination and IAD exercises. American and other allies get more training, hands-on, and simulator than Russia does.
Outside of cleptocracies quite often. When you do not steal money for machines, spare parts, ammo, fuel and operator training it is actually rather tested and proven. Also helps when you half train your crew, not let them finish their conscript term or short contract they signed to get bit more money than conscripts ... Most reasonable armies only put pros on such systems. Only reloading crew can be short term guys under supervision of pro ofc. My uncle worked on S300 we had for severals year and will tell that he still occasionally found out new quirks of system he previously not encountered ... (partially cos there was also limited budget too :) ) And he is the tryhard guy ...
It really depends. The U.S. will do a battlefield prep/assessment of expected adversaries and will generate a risk assessment and feasibility of establishing an IADS in theater. They might say determine that manpads are good enough for protection. So TW/EW detects a threat, notifies COCOM, COCOM AOC/JAOC will contact the regional command or call the nearest troop with manpads and warn them to engage.
Now, that is top of the line IADS support with proper training and funding which not all nations can afford.
@@davidlabedz2046 It would be curious if the Russians teach their guys up to the level of what may as well be electronics technicians to know most of the theories and principles which the equipment operates upon. That with training that may go over a month, and perhaps by people that worked at the company that made the thing. Or are they just given a manual with summarized instructions and "Here, you have a week to figure this out." The way in which operator qualifications are determined may make a huge difference, despite the capabilities of the vehicles and equipment itself. Even if in operation some equipment can be dumbed down to point and shoot, knowing a lot more to understand the capability vs. limitations can go a long way.
@@pauljs75 lmao u really all think that second biggest military in the world dosent know to operate their stuff ?? Lmao
One thing that nobody has brought up is that even China during peacetime turns off its SAM systems when flying missions because of the risk of friendly fire, integrating air defences with live combat missions is very very hard. I think that yes it is possible for them to have flown a super low lvl route and avoided being fired on but more likely the Russians have been flying sorties and they have probably been using a safe corridor for them to fly in and out without risking friendly fire and the Ukrainians took advantage of either ongoing Russian air ops to sneak in or the corridor just being left open in general. It is also just as likely that these sites were operational but based on the propaganda the Russians have been telling everyone I could believe it if you told me that the operators thought that 90% of the air force had been destroyed and thus were never expecting any hostile to penetrate their airspace.
I am also curious how long these systems can be kept continuously running, I know some of the CIWS systems reportedly have issues being on for extended periods of time because of wear and tear on the components and heating issues so they are only activated when an imminent threat is expected or present.
NATO has perfected datalink and IFF systems. We have no issues with shooting down friendlies anymore. That's a China and Russia problem.
It was at night time so maybe they were asleep?
The UA had the advantage of Western intelligence. Satellite, intercepted comms, jamming etc.
Has anyone ever thought to build a cheap target drone that could mimic a real combat aircraft on radar. So we could get the Russians to waste their advanced SAM's on it. They only have so many and they are expensive.
Oh yea
We use the ADM-141 drones in this one. th-cam.com/video/jaby8jDvCQk/w-d-xo.html
The US navy used dummy drones in the first Iraq war to trigger sam sites into lighting up
Yes
I think that's what the future is going to hold - each plane attack getting covered by a swarm of 50+ cheap drones/missiles to distract the AA. When your radar needs to pick up targets with the radar crosssection of a smartphone from 100 miles away, it should be possible to generate a number of juicy targets pretty simple.
Great video by Cap. Great flying by Simba. Great jokes by GR as a whole.
I agree we really had the bantering going on this one
I heard a rumour that the Ukrainians used a captured Russian helicopter flown by Simbar for the raid.
[Removed due to egg on face :)]
@@lsc8397 It's a joke. Relax.
@@lsc8397 are you serious?
@@rubiconnn lol fair play, you wouldn't believe the crazy things people are saying about this war though recently so it wasn't easy for me to tell.
For some reason i didn't see the " Simbar for the raid." :D
"After the farmers towed to them and collected their trophy it was given to the UAF, who immediately put it to use." - BBC
Several military commentators have mentioned the lack of an effective Russian IADS in Ukraine. The poor state of Russian operators training and lack of proper maintenance. THE RUSSIANS don't train as much as NATO and American forces.
Exactly. And also the depressive performance of the Russian air force. I wonder how accurate these flight simulator models are. So far, Russian air defence was ineffective. The same goes for their figther jets and bombers.
@@PieterBreda Bitch Russians are making air strikes from their Air space the only things we see in Ukraine Are CAS jets(SU25) and helicopters 2nd of all how do Russians don't train as much as NATO and America? that is a retarded statement Russians train a whole lot they have some of the harshest training Last year Russians lost 9000 Troops in the Ural mountain training
@@PieterBreda Well the SIM is made by a Russian company based in Switzerland so...
Well they shot down the entire ukrianian air force and all TB2
You guys are being a bit silly, The Russian rather not bomb Ukraine to the stone age, which is the western way that results in a lot of local hate afterward. there has not been a large scale air assault. they barely lost planes, and they have total air dominance, shown by them bombing any target at will. how many hours of training do the Russians do? its not good to underestimate a rival, the west needs to sort itself out before we get hammered. The British army was thinking of getting rid of its tanks, idiots.
Thank you for all the explanations! Us remedials appreciate it.
This was so exciting! Last man flying 1 meter from the deck. Nail biting stuff.
Yeah I was alittle don’t screw this up to my self lol.
It's important to note that the Patriot is a significantly better system from what it was in the 90s. It's unfair to compare what's in DCS - even in an IADS - to a real system. The system running today is not 30 years old, it's based on a system of that age, but it has been radically improved, akin to how the SA-21 is based on the 80s SA-10.
Many important factors were learned during the Gulf Wars. The Russians have renamed their SA-10 over the years as they generationally improved them - we simply have kept the name the same. throughout.
12:25 do those big sams have a self arming distance? i mean i suppose if you can get like "over" them theres a good chance you can put that rotary cannon to use lol
Simba has just received the Medal For Irreproachable Service. GR (and fans) salute you. Congratulations.
I've been told that helicopters can't notch radar systems because while the helicopter can be as motionless as the terrain clutter, the rotors can't and will be picked up by the radar.
There are other factors, like you know what is terrain feature and what just appeared as new "terrain feature" Also unless flying in between trees you tend to be above terrain etc. Modern radars can discern between static terrain feature and new things (at least to some extent). When you start radar at new placement you " neutralize returns from known terrain features, helo would stand out on "cleared" image. That is if you radar crew know that they have to do it and do know how to do it. Some really modern radar may do it fully automatically, to an extent yet again ... And you have to look/mark for blind spots (like behind hill) using you own aircraft ... and cover that alleyway with something else, like solitary IR guided SAM, few blokes with stingers. Something tells me that It is not done in UA properly (requires trained and experienced crew) and GR overdid it a lot on other hand ... Also composite rotors have relatively low return. Though mi24 has metal ones.
@@klonik79 In theory a stationary radar should be able to just look at the difference from one scan to the next with no notch filter at all, anything that's different is something that moved. Basically background removal with a new background every time around. OTOH the most basic version of that could end up being massively susceptible to jamming.
Actually what I've wondered about is has anyone tried putting a full blown detection radar on a missile? One fun system to play with on paper would be a sounding rocket that can lob a ton or so up to 100 miles. You could get rapid response look-down radar for about 4-6 minutes out of that which should be long enough to given initial guidance to a fully active SAM for an over the horizon shot. Combined with an acoustic array (e.g. toss a bunch of "cell phones" around the country side) so you can know when there's something for your ballistic radar to see and that could be rather troublesome.
Ah good point. In game the rotor speed is not modelled to the radar. So I guess game deviates from reality here.
It depends. Airborne radar will have a hard time picking up a helo flying slow from a car driving in a road. Urban terrain is far from motionless.
Simba, "I would love to go water skiing behind a Hind!" Simba has the best ideas! Do it Cap! 😃👍
I have trouble distinguishing between Scott and Simba. 😄 I blame the old age! 😆
@@TeenTeenFpv Glad I'm not the only one getting it wrong. Lol. Fair play, that was some flying skill. 👏
Are Simba and Scott the same guy? I can;t tell.
I love all y'all's videos but this one was really entertaining. Simba FTW
Thank you very much! From the moment i saw the first video, i thought about your videos and how epic it would be to replay this operation. It would be interesting to compare the Apache against the Mi 24. As always thank you very, very much.
What actually occured.. Simba got lost again, everyone else drew the IADS attention, so they were looking in the wrong direction while he flew right in.. LOL
Great flying Simba!
Simba does have Terrible Nav, but he made up for it with his super low flying.
That's American doctrine. if we don't know where we are going then the enemy won't either.
Kudos to Simba! You, SIr, are a MONSTER at the stick!
Congrats on 200k guys!!!🎉🎉
thx
Awesome flying Simba ! See Cap, this is why you ALWAYS use GRAV guys for helicopter related stuff - lol
The kid's got ice in his veins! Lol nice flying Simba, I feel for your nerves after that sortie
I knew you guys will create this video the second I saw news about this event.
Whats important in the oil refinery strike video is what we cannot see. For all we know many helicopters were shot down on the way and those 2 are whats left.
So the real question is, does Russia even have this many assets littered across the country side? Even with the current conflict?
No absolutely not. There's 1, maybe 2 places in Russia that likely have even 50% of this protection. Absolutely Kaliningrad, and MAYBE Moscow.
Even if they do, remember that these systems just see "su27" su25" "mi24". They cannot know whose helicopters those are or whose planes those are. Friendly fire is very risky.
Neg, this is the kind of thing you would find around a major Russian city.
@@grimreapers but they had many of this AA systems inside Ukraine already, so internal AA defense may be thinner
Not watched yet…. But this has Dampsoc all excited already. Had out the socks.
What an awesome flying by Simba, that's like piloting a truck like it is a race car!
I guess the trick for this is to fly nap of the Earth, below trees or other obstructions to the target, and to do that you need precise mapping, planning and flying. If you do that you have a good chance so long as you don't run into AAA, MANPADS, VSHORAD or SHORAD systems (with line of sight.) Great video, great flying Simba. :)
Your biggest defense is good planning. True in the game as true in real life.
I suspect these radars don’t work nearly as well in real life. Also, congrats on 200k subs!
With a human operator who actually knows what they are doing and is expecting some sort of incursion; probably better*. I expect the reason it went the way it did in real life is that the quantity of Russian assets operating together with no strikes up to that point made the operators complacent. The Ukrainians were probably aware that aircraft were regularly going back and forth with lax IFF, and exploited that, rather than the radars being unable to see them.
*Helicopters are extremely hard to hide from radars, because the rotors are always giving off a broad spectrum return that is easily distinguished from the ground. It might be hard to get an exact fix, but they are hard to hide completely, and once a human is actively looking and know what they are looking for, finding it is a matter of when, not if. I think it far more likely that there were no people looking, rather than they couldn't find them.
@@agsystems8220 great comment, thanks. It’s also possible that the Russians were a bit overconfident, thinking that those choppers had to be friendly. It reminds me of the story about the time when Israel attacked a nuclear reactor in Iraq years ago. When their F-16s passed through Jordan, they got on the radio and pretended to be lost Jordanian pilots. It totally worked.
thx
During my aerobatic training I flew with a WW II Polish RAF vet who demoed low flight ( 3ft off ground). He hoped over fences at full throttle, full flaps. His skill was amazing. He claimed he could penetrate enemy radar virtually undetected, and that the AA could not depress low enough to hit him. That left small arms fire, and a 1 second burst could eliminate that if he accidentally encountered them (Was not looking where he was going!)!
Like the new intro promo.... Very cool
If you’re gonna fly helicopters in a conga line you really need to play chick chicky boom by Desi Arnez!
agree
great work, Simba
LOL @ the cut from talking about negative G right to that missile launch.
Great video content Cap. Go Simba!!! Fantastic flying!!!! One note, I'm not sure if anyone else had this but the compression was pretty bad on this video. Was like it was filmed on a potato. Scratch that .... restarted the video and it was all good 👍
Sometimes it doesn;t load the full 1440p vid first time. Not sure why.
absolutely amazing video!!! :D
This is the most exciting simulation video ever! You guys can make movies with DCS.
If this war ends and Ukraine survives, you can bet there’ll be a movie about this: one of the ballsiest missions we know about.
I been waiting for this one :)
I was so emotionally invested in this toward the end lol!
Amazing flying Mr. Simba!
Hands down the best hind flying by any DCS player. Give that man a raise!!!
great video! Simba is a legend! i also doubt the Ukrainians managed this without some help, assuming they did do it. maybe they got russian iff codes or something.
Having Russians manning the air defense system helps.
they have flown extremely low so low that the only way they could be shotdown is by a MANPAD
Or the Russian air defense is only good on paper.
@@muyoso they shot down many ukrianian army plane and TB2
@@hecunotmakingalogisquad5785 i doubt the ukrainians are that good. DCS isn't real life. in real life if you crash your aircraft you usually die....
You guys have amazing skill and luck. I love this channel.
My skill was flying into a missile...
@@grimreapers But you do it in style 🙂
Can you do a reverser race in the viggen? You could use taxiways around an airport as a racing track
Hard to control backwards.
@@grimreapers that's where the fun begins😄
I like this concept of taking real life data and placing it in DCS please keep this up very cool
Is there any chance you could share the Mission file, like the one you shared of the MEGA IADS Island attack that Kortana set up? Would love to see how I do with a Huey or an Apache.
Would love to see this done with Cobras or Vipers when/if they become available. Image if there was a drone small enough to carry rocket pods, small enough to go through the forests and towns to hit it's target.
I'm so glad for the chapters options in these videos.
Not everyone has time to watch the whole GR vids.
@@grimreapers yep, I can just come back and pick up on the chapter I left on.
Smacked the like button when Simba fired his missiles
yay boom
It’s a pity Simba never kept a couple of missiles and had taken out the sams. Would have been a prime target and definite medal earner. Well done.
When im taking off and landing I have all three stabs on , but while in flight I just use the rudder stab . It stops the wobble .
Has Simba got a chance. He'll barrel that big old Mi 24 in there so low He'll be frying chickens in the barnyards with his jet exhausts.
Might get him with a harpoon gun but they ain't going to see him with no danged radar.
Credits to 'Turgidson' and 'Kong'.
18:02 at this pount you might as well put the landing gear down and taxi there lol
Epic flying, Simba!
(A) Ukrainian pilots know the terrain; (B) IADS has to figure out that it's a hostile, which they wouldn't expect; (C) They are trained to ask permission to pee; (D) The competence of Russian C&C is questionable; (E) We don't know if they got back safely.
They had planning from NATO.
The thing is, if the russians had indeed shot down the Hinds that did the attack, they would be jumping up and down how the evil ukrainians attacked civilian target but the heroic Russian Army was able to shoot them down before they bombed an orphanage, with showing off the wreckage of the helis. But as there has not been any of that I would guess that the helis survived the attack.
What was the big black blob in the upper right of your front window?
Great flying, Simba. 🤙🏻 Good shit.
“She’s a big bitch.”
Good thing they had their nav lights on.
*Thank you* for explicitly noting that "firing range" is the thing impacted by target approach speed.
It might be commonly assumed by people who know the context that that is what's being talked about by "range", but my default interpretation from experience in other domains always wants to see the basic term "range" apply to the thing that is impacted by the fewest parameters; that is the range from the launcher to the point of intercept.
I suppose you could say that there is no real way to quantify an "effective range" for any missile.
Great Vid, makes me laugh ;)
Have You considered to share the mission?
You have to modifiy the game, would not work for you.
Now I understand why they turn out to the East side(Russian side) after the target had been hit, not directly to the South. There is a lake to the East of Belgorod!
Maybe what you guys need to try is a 'combined air group' attack. Have Su27s or Su25s take out a SAM system or two (if they're capable of that) then send in the Mi24s? SIMBA-WIMBA FTW!!!
well done, SImba WImba!
This mirrors how low the Mi-24s were on their egress route after the attack. Many people have video of them flying incredibly low.
The next day they tried again to turn this trick, but both helicopters were shot down. Now the pilots are next to their beloved Bandera
@@GordonKast feel bad for your pathetic country.
Thou who ask nicely shall recieve:)
Thanks Cap:)
This is exactly where a manpad would come in handy at the oil tank location. IAD if fine but you got to be able to shoot what you can see right in front of you.
Simba showing why he is Lion King
A little off topic. But why missiles in DCS don't seem to exhaust any "flame" or visible gases
Is this how they work in real life?
They only burn for first few seconds after being fired. Then missiles glide.
Read my mind! Perfect one Cap.
If you are a new viewer I would personally recommend watching the radar tutorials on this channel it would help you to better understand the "Ebb and Flow" of radar and its specific advantages and disadvantages for each airframe / support radar systems. otherwise you need to go do all the research that these fine people here have done for our entertainment. :) thanks Reapers.
P.S. I am still waiting to see the beautiful P-38 intercept some Japanese Aircraft. o7
Simba you rock !
i see my self as a smooth refined stone but i'll accept being called a rock. lol cheers thanks for the support
If instead of an open rotor, they'd use mulitple ducted fans like your typical RC drone, would that make them the perfect stealthy ground attack vehicle? Imagine large octocopters with long range missiles creeping up on SAM sites just like demonstrated in video.
Is there anything like an ISEAD/IDEAD? A similarly integrated approach to *attacking* air defenses?
Say systems that allow HARM strike to be ToT coordinated all the way to multiple radars? "Unless you shut *everything* off, *something* will get destroyed."
Or maybe use ITALD's with the sensor package from a HARM to allow triangulating radars from standoff distances? (If you can time synchronize the same radar signal from multiple observers, you should be able to get the transmitter's location to a similar accuracy as the radar can spot it's targets.)
Excellent piece of flying there. Does DCS actually model the power wires as physical objects you can hit?
To helicopters yes.
Has Sky Sabre been added to the game? If so I would be interested to see Russia/ China vs British IADS. Even though Rapier has been taken out of active service now I think it would be interesting to include that in the defences, along with MANPADS.
And it’s possible Ukraine used captured Russian heli’s so the Russian air defences would have just seen one of many Russian helicopters flying around. I’m sure they have a Friend or Foe system built in.
The waterskiing idea sounds good until you take rotor wash into account.
But do the trees in DCS actually give cover for the radars?
Yes
@@simba1113 Cool
Next, Airwolf. 🤪👍
18:13 This also doesn't take into account potential human failure/fog of war. The Ukrainian Airforce has been decimated. Would any potential SAM ops be on Red Alert and if they sighted the Mi24s how would they guarantee IFF?
Especially as there is reports(intercepted comms) they accidentally shot down several of their own a/c which Ukraine "claimed." I mean you're not gonna come out and say "no you didn't we shot our own down!"
You know that decimation in reality means 1 out 10 ? or tenth ? And yes I know RU reported enough airplanes shot down to hamper NATO much less UA, whose stock is about 3 or 4 times lower than reported air kills
"The ukrainian air force has been decimated"
Actual figures suggest around 81% of their Air Force is still operational.
You can have the most sophisticated SAM system in the world, it won't do shit if the crew is not prepared or distracted
Am I the only one who kept hearing the Airwolf theme song XD
Nope..
Completely off in left field here but I wonder. If it was Ukraine could they have received some outside help from someone with some sort of top secret jamming capability or even some sort of DDS style attack? That or access and egress planning?
Simba, the arborist.
8:30... you forgot cows? Pretty sure cows would get in the way of radar more than a washing line!
Good point.
In Mariupol Ukrainians were able to get helicopters in to get supplies in and wounded out. Now Russia is using a helicopter blockade. I would like to see how that works because I never imagined it being a thing.
Stay low and you can get through!
Loved this episode.
needs Airwolf theme tune..
Should it be considered too that Eastern Ukrainian terrain is a lot more flat and open than this region of Russia in game? I may be wrong, so correct me if I am, but shouldn't the terrain look a lot more like it did around 21:00 in the video, with the large open fields divided by narrow tree lines at distant intervals. If that's the case I feel like that would be important to try testing as well, since the majority of the traveling being done would actually be behind trees rather than above them?
Grim, the Patriot Pac-3 (the current system) is from 2015 - more modern than most Russian systems.
rgr we don't have Pac-3 in game sadly.
Ok no special info from me... but firstly you might want to remember that the Belgorod depot was destroyed by an OTR-21 Tochka-U ballistic missile fired by the Ukrainian 19th missile brigade on 29th of march. SAM systems may have been redeployed based on this and a "window of opportunity" may have occurred for a couple of Ukrainian Choppers to do the rest on the Oil Depot. There may have been no defensive SAM net at all for the choppers to evade !! and at night Man pads are much less effective as general situational awareness is much lower.
what about that footage that showed the helicopters?
@@aksmex2576 yes I am saying the choppers got in when the Sam's turned off their radars to redeploy...if your in territory that's getting hit with ballistic missiles you don't want to sit on one place too long.
@@passivehouseaustralia4406 on paper they should shoot down missiles too so it wouldn't make sense to turn off. Idk if they can shoot down ballistic missiles.
@@aksmex2576 Yes but you still redeploy when your less than 40 km from the border... Mobile Sam systems are mobile for a reason.
Good stuff Simba!!!
I would like to see more vids with iads and battleships!
Is this mission available for others to download and give it a go, and if so where from? Cheers.
You would need to modify your game to run this mission.
@@grimreapers So "no" then? Or you presume am I "incapable" of modify my game like anyone else?.
16:42 would landing now help the helicopter ? assuming the helicopter knows it's been fired at of course
i think it would.
yes agree
Would be nice to see a WW2 strike, using Mozzie’s, Jugs or Mustangs take on the IADS system, either down low or high up, Would love to fly with Sock on that mission
th-cam.com/video/4DucM0ACf0g/w-d-xo.html
Simba is the best pilot on Grim Reapers
Remember that winwing technology is your ultimate hardware solution :) 104
agredd