Wondered that myself, but I sure do link to this video a lot anyway. Every time the subject of "wait, how do you pronounce that again?" comes up, in fact.
I've been asking myself that for some time, the man has mad talent, and I'd love to work with him and a couple other chap-hop artists like Gentleman Rhymer or the good Professor Elemental one day.
My dear Sir, you really MUST produce more of these wonderful songs. You leave us drying on the vine for months at the time. Rhyme unintended, albeit interesting.
I love this. I think the first one I heard of was Leicester while playing Monolpoly as a child. There was one time playing Dungeons & Dragons I thought I'd troll some of the other players by having a character be from a fictional town call Worchesterborough. I shall have to put some of these to use.
Just watching this with the captions turned on, and I realized that you made a slight error yourself, Sir Reginald. At 1:10, you wrote "To a wagon-lit carriage, in hopes of some sleep". Wagon-lit, which should actually be pronounced "Wa-Gone-Lee" is a French word, most often referring to a railway sleeping carriage. It could also refer to the Compagnie International des Wagon-Lit, the Belgian firm that operated restaurant and sleeping cars throughout Europe, as well as luxury trains such as the Orient Express.
"lit" in French means "bed" - so a "wagon-lit" is a carriage with beds of some form. Though the actual pronounciation contracts the -on in "wagon" into a single sound, best heard directly e.g. at the French audio dictionary at french.about.com
Reginald Pikedevant This could actually be a great added element to this song, in that while you are showcasing your knowledge of English shibboleths (due to your being an upstanding English gentleman), but are yourself thrown off by a French example, showing that in this case you are not a member of the populace. It sounds like the sort of esoteric thing that I would do intentionally, were I able to make videos of this quality.
Sir Reginald, have you considered starting a Patreon page? I'd happily donate a small amount of money per song, provided you maintain the quality, and it might help compensate you for the time and effort you evidently put into these videos.
Jolly spiffing cinematograph, Reginald. Yet I fear you have merely scratched the surface.... I can think of dozens of further examples in my own area. Maybe this needs to be published bound in vellum as an aid to travellers?
Well, you learn something new every day. I had never heard the word shibboleth before, and now I know how some of them are pronounced. I'm still in awe and trying to understand how a mangle of consonants are simply ignored in some cases.
I think it's largely a combination of abbreviations-of-abbreviations over extremely long stretches of time, and changes in pronunciation over even longer periods of time. Sort of like how Mexico still has an X even though Mexicans have long-since started spelling those words with a J instead. ditto Don Quixote. the properer a proper noun is, the more its spelling is part of its identity, and changing it would be like changing what you call your parents
I've bought 'Just Glue some gears on it...' and I also noticed that it was on spotify, I would honestly love for you to put up all your songs onto spotify :P
And most of these words _did_ have intuitive pronunciation following the phonetic rules of the language at the time they were codified, with the pronunciation drifting away as well as the rules of the language as a whole shifting another.
A friend of mine from Stoke on Trent in England was stumped by many of these names! The only one he got first try was Aslackby, and that was because he lived there for a short time. I guess that just demonstrates how hard a language English is.
I remember the Featherstonehaugh from an episode of Inspector Lynley's Mysteries. Someone had to go find a Lord F in a file, and complained that there wasn't anything under that name.
Nicolas Lipari I'm British living in France since 1968. French TV newsreaders drop their voices to a languid English "hhhhh" for the last syllable; one is obliged to guess. Both French and English languages (and there are worse even in Europe) are obstacle courses. The Spanish language has little or no such obstacles. WYSIWYG.
Very nice, Shame I never thought to pronounce a single one of those words correctly. I would say I felt quite dim but those of us in the states pronounce things quite differently. Fine song though sir, fine song.
Benjamin Calloway I knew the chances of you getting the specific Game Grumps reference was low. It would be relatively inappropriate if that WAS the only gag. instead I was hoping you would take it as a goofy gag on shibboleth pronunciations.
And hear I though the shibboleth was some elder form of the aboleth! :D Quite informatory, kind Sir! (Now I cannot help but imagine how a british gentleman aboleth would look like...)
I've been to Godmanchester and I'm pretty sure I heard it pronounced as spelt. I think a lot of these shibboleths are jokes at the expense of outsiders...
Some of them.have died over time. There are a few on the Welsh border which have disappeared just in my lifetime due to an influx of outsiders moving in.
We lived close to Godmanchester for 15 years and we called it as it is spelled - so did everyone else. Even the Domesday Book recorded it as Godmundcestre.
You can get this stuff wrong even when you're a native. I grew up in the Scottish Highlands, about ten miles from the vilage of Avoch. And for my entire childhood, I believed that the "Avoch" I saw on road signs and the "Och" I heard people talk about were two entirely different places.
American lady caller: "Hello, is that IBM War-wick?" Me: "IBM Warwick, yes." "Oh, is it named after the singer, Dionne?" "No, I expect it is named after the castle." "Why would IBM name somewhere after a castle?" "Because we can see it out of the window."
I would bet money that Welsh has something to do with a lot of these. Welsh is all about having a whole bunch of consonants ridiculously strung together to have an entirely different sound.
English language still so hard that 'You're' and 'Your' are still wrongly used today in massive quantities and it really gets my goat, and no.. I'm NOT talking the GOAT.
I miss you, Mr. Pikedevant.
i hope he comes back
Me too :(
(
yeah
Same
It really feels like the secret to pronouncing all those is to just look at the whole word at once and give up.
Or just ask someone who knows!?
@@kathybramley5609 I think the point being made here was that a lot of the pronunciations are just entirely ignoring half the word.
I love that Cockburn is a urologist.
Brilliant song, once again! Thank you for your excellent lyrics and songwriting!
“To see his urologist, a doctor named Cockburn” I sure that must have been a sore point
You learn something new everyday. Today I learned that the english language is even worse than I thought.
Whatever happened to this guy?? He made a few great videos and then just stopped.
From time to time I come here and wonder about that. I hope he is well.
He was still active last year, but I don't know more... he website has no new date. pikedevant.com/ nor does his twitter or facebook.
Wondered that myself, but I sure do link to this video a lot anyway. Every time the subject of "wait, how do you pronounce that again?" comes up, in fact.
I've been asking myself that for some time, the man has mad talent, and I'd love to work with him and a couple other chap-hop artists like Gentleman Rhymer or the good Professor Elemental one day.
He has another channel under his actual name. th-cam.com/video/BgpBZB3Apno/w-d-xo.html
I love IPA transcription in the subtitles. A nice and funny touch.
*the english answer to french words*
Thank you for using IPA in the captions
Most educating and informative! Thank you!And PLEASE come back to TH-cam!
Omg. Shibboleth and a steampunk rant. I fucking love this channel.
My dear Sir, you really MUST produce more of these wonderful songs. You leave us drying on the vine for months at the time.
Rhyme unintended, albeit interesting.
A new video from Reginald Pikedevant ?! It must be christmas !
ALMOST!
...and the last
Puncknowle - "Punnel"
That one actually makes sense!
I think the locals just got lazy. Lady Fetherstonhaugh, indeed.
no one is talking about the IPA in the captions
I love this. I think the first one I heard of was Leicester while playing Monolpoly as a child. There was one time playing Dungeons & Dragons I thought I'd troll some of the other players by having a character be from a fictional town call Worchesterborough. I shall have to put some of these to use.
I freaking love the chorus of this song. Years later I still hum it to myself whenever I read the word.
Still do
Very informative and educational, top-notch work as always, Sir Reginald!
Now I'm wondering how Pikedevant is pronounced. Pickant? Pikent? Pique d'Avon?
he did a video about himself, in which he pronounces his own name, so go check it out!
Ahahah found the vid. Now I know 😏
Just watching this with the captions turned on, and I realized that you made a slight error yourself, Sir Reginald.
At 1:10, you wrote "To a wagon-lit carriage, in hopes of some sleep". Wagon-lit, which should actually be pronounced "Wa-Gone-Lee" is a French word, most often referring to a railway sleeping carriage. It could also refer to the Compagnie International des Wagon-Lit, the Belgian firm that operated restaurant and sleeping cars throughout Europe, as well as luxury trains such as the Orient Express.
Well, that's embarrassing. Hoist by my own petard.
Reginald Pikedevant A slight hiccup, nothing more. I didn't notice it myself until I watched the captions. Still a brilliant song, as always.
Reginald Pikedevant Might as well make a joke of it and change the captions to the IPA for that too.
"lit" in French means "bed" - so a "wagon-lit" is a carriage with beds of some form. Though the actual pronounciation contracts the -on in "wagon" into a single sound, best heard directly e.g. at the French audio dictionary at french.about.com
Reginald Pikedevant This could actually be a great added element to this song, in that while you are showcasing your knowledge of English shibboleths (due to your being an upstanding English gentleman), but are yourself thrown off by a French example, showing that in this case you are not a member of the populace.
It sounds like the sort of esoteric thing that I would do intentionally, were I able to make videos of this quality.
To tell if someone is a scientist or an engineer, ask them to say "Unionised"
I hope you're doing okay, Reginald. You disappeared so sudden. I'd love to hear from you. Doesn't have to be a music-video, just a few words.
This is fantastic! I personally like the pronunciation of Oswaldtwistle in the NW: "ozzel-twizzel". Great video, Reginald!
Sir Reginald, have you considered starting a Patreon page? I'd happily donate a small amount of money per song, provided you maintain the quality, and it might help compensate you for the time and effort you evidently put into these videos.
Hear, hear!
I always hear the tourists excited to the historic station at Whymondham saying it wrong. (Wind-hmm)
TheBoyFromNorfolk What *is* it with Norfolk? I mean Stiffkey = "Stew-key". Seriously?
Jolly spiffing cinematograph, Reginald. Yet I fear you have merely scratched the surface.... I can think of dozens of further examples in my own area. Maybe this needs to be published bound in vellum as an aid to travellers?
Well, you learn something new every day. I had never heard the word shibboleth before, and now I know how some of them are pronounced. I'm still in awe and trying to understand how a mangle of consonants are simply ignored in some cases.
More recently the Map Men produced a video explaining the pronunciation of British place names (and why they are the way they are).
Your cutaway skirts so evenly, dear sir. Pure adoration for your attire. :)
Looks like he fixed his time machine and returned to his original time period, and it broke again.
:(
Most of these seem to follow a pattern: Just take the first and last syllable, and ignore the rest.
What the actual hell English!? Why have you done this to me!?
I think it's largely a combination of abbreviations-of-abbreviations over extremely long stretches of time, and changes in pronunciation over even longer periods of time. Sort of like how Mexico still has an X even though Mexicans have long-since started spelling those words with a J instead. ditto Don Quixote. the properer a proper noun is, the more its spelling is part of its identity, and changing it would be like changing what you call your parents
Sir Pikedeviant, you've made my week with this song. I'm now going to have to learn it so I can keep entertained in my daily toils.
I now live in New Zealand where we have such delights as Whakapapa. You wouldn't believe how that's pronounced!
easy, the wh is like f and that means whaka sounds like fucker
Were did he go it's been 5 years
Lovely lesson Mercy
A TH-camr I really wish had been invited to provide a voice in Fallout: London.
I've bought 'Just Glue some gears on it...' and I also noticed that it was on spotify, I would honestly love for you to put up all your songs onto spotify :P
Great to see another work from you old boy. Shibboleths are a longtime interest of mine..
And most of these words _did_ have intuitive pronunciation following the phonetic rules of the language at the time they were codified, with the pronunciation drifting away as well as the rules of the language as a whole shifting another.
Boatswain is a good one.
Or Fo'c'sle (sometimes pronounced 'forecastle')
7 years late but halfpenny
A friend of mine from Stoke on Trent in England was stumped by many of these names! The only one he got first try was Aslackby, and that was because he lived there for a short time. I guess that just demonstrates how hard a language English is.
It's the talk of the town on Mackinac Island!
I remember the Featherstonehaugh from an episode of Inspector Lynley's Mysteries. Someone had to go find a Lord F in a file, and complained that there wasn't anything under that name.
These are all masterful! I cannot imagine what stopped such talent, but I will keep a hopeful eye open for any return. Burnout, perhaps?
Think of "Lieutenant" and "Lieutenant". Or, as Victor Borge said in explanation of inflationary language, "Lieuelevenant".
I get it. It's similar to the way the French simply don't pronounce the last half of a word, no matter how many letters it contains.
violacrb "the way the French simply don't pronounce the last half of a word"
Is that a thing?
I'm French and I can tell you we pronunciate the whole words x) the accent from Québec is strange, through.
je sais bien koschei, je suis en train de me moquer de cet ignare, n'essaie pas d'interférer
Je te laisse vaquer à ta moquerie, dans ce cas. Gentlemen.
Nicolas Lipari I'm British living in France since 1968. French TV newsreaders drop their voices to a languid English "hhhhh" for the last syllable; one is obliged to guess. Both French and English languages (and there are worse even in Europe) are obstacle courses. The Spanish language has little or no such obstacles. WYSIWYG.
Splendid, Sir Reginald!
Where have you gone??? 😣😣
This was probably the most useful song I've ever heard.
A splendid and concise gentleman
I'm just waiting here...7 months....when's the next video?
Here from the Map Men video on English placenames!
Amazing as always, Pikedevant
You ever gonna come back man?
Come back we need you sir
You are a grand entertainer Sir Reginald Pikedevant Esquire. I hope you are doing well... wherever you might be. :(
Another triumph, more please.
Thanks Matt Colville for making this show up in my recommendations
So, the point is to leave some letters out in the middle - that seems the pattern.
we need more!!!
Reminds me of the town names in Southern Illinois. Then again, Illinois.
Bill Robitske In Illinois's defense, the state used to belong to France. To the French, the pronunciations are correct.
And who used to own Arkansaw?
I didn't realize until near the end that the the video had captions... with the IPA pronunciations!
5 years too late! But Alnwick and Bamburgh are good examples of Shibboleths.
what happened to this channel? it's great but why no more posts
still waiting for a new video :3
I love them ^^
It is because of this song that I know how to pronounce the title of the lady involved in the Prince of Wales' purported affair.
Very nice, Shame I never thought to pronounce a single one of those words correctly. I would say I felt quite dim but those of us in the states pronounce things quite differently. Fine song though sir, fine song.
I hope to see you upload something again, it's been too long :')
Where’s that bridge then?
Saint Combewickholmecester-on-Fordmouth.
"Month" is derived from "moonth," as it refers to the length of time that the moon takes to orbit the Earth.
This summarises the 'British' English dialect perfectly.
Haa!! Now I feel I'm in good company..."Derbyshire"...lol
Quite witty, my good man, well done indeed!
You're brilliant.
This was clever I love it :D
Trottiscliffe still gets me
This is....genius
MORE! WE NEED MORE!
Would "Worcestershire" be considered a Shibboleth?
Speaking as a near-lifelong resident, you would not _believe_ some of the ways I've heard "Worcestershire Sauce" pronounced! So that's a yes.
This must be added to Spotify.
I think you mean "Spoofy"
What do you mean?
Benjamin Calloway
I knew the chances of you getting the specific Game Grumps reference was low. It would be relatively inappropriate if that WAS the only gag. instead I was hoping you would take it as a goofy gag on shibboleth pronunciations.
This video has made me doubt my pronunciation of any British names thus far.
Wow... And here I thought we Americans had a broken version of the English language...
+MarioFanaticXV Yes, even the English version of the English Language is broken.
+MKtheinstrumentalist English isn't broken, it is "quirky" :)
+MKtheinstrumentalist English isn't broken, it is "quirky" :)
'mazen.
Is ity a coincidence or, as I suspect, does this refer visually to Dylan's old video of Subterranean Homesick Blues?
I bet it actually is a reference to "Bob" by weird al, which itself is a reference to suburban teenage blues.
Where do you get your clothes I especially love the mourning coat
We miss you... :(
Hey, Marcel from 1 year ago, he's back! :D
Hey, Marcel from 2 years ago, I just went to Yasmin and Rodrigo's wedding and it was steampunk
And hear I though the shibboleth was some elder form of the aboleth! :D Quite informatory, kind Sir! (Now I cannot help but imagine how a british gentleman aboleth would look like...)
I've been to Godmanchester and I'm pretty sure I heard it pronounced as spelt. I think a lot of these shibboleths are jokes at the expense of outsiders...
Londonfogey Yep I used to live near there and we definitely gave it the full four syllables.
Yup.
so it's all just a fucking lie!!! darn it!
Some of them.have died over time. There are a few on the Welsh border which have disappeared just in my lifetime due to an influx of outsiders moving in.
We lived close to Godmanchester for 15 years and we called it as it is spelled - so did everyone else. Even the Domesday Book recorded it as Godmundcestre.
Torpenhow is the best one ever.
My brain broke at rat-chip fatshaw.
there is a place not that far from where my grandparents used to live called Grand Tully and its pronounced Grantly
You can get this stuff wrong even when you're a native. I grew up in the Scottish Highlands, about ten miles from the vilage of Avoch. And for my entire childhood, I believed that the "Avoch" I saw on road signs and the "Och" I heard people talk about were two entirely different places.
American lady caller: "Hello, is that IBM War-wick?"
Me: "IBM Warwick, yes."
"Oh, is it named after the singer, Dionne?"
"No, I expect it is named after the castle."
"Why would IBM name somewhere after a castle?"
"Because we can see it out of the window."
I would bet money that Welsh has something to do with a lot of these. Welsh is all about having a whole bunch of consonants ridiculously strung together to have an entirely different sound.
Welsh consonants are pretty straightforward. It's the Gaelic ones that are crazy.
Words are weird! Love the video!
Good work, old chap. It's far from crap!
i miss you
anyone know where he went?
English language still so hard that 'You're' and 'Your' are still wrongly used today in massive quantities and it really gets my goat, and no.. I'm NOT talking the GOAT.