Dangers of Digital Distribution and DRM!
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Once, piracy harmed developers - now, it's meant to save and preserve games.
real
One simple word: Piracy, you bought the game, you have the receit, you own one copy of the game and piracy is copying and not theft
@@x0vg5hs1 yes and i love that, but what if Steam dies? I hope valve has some form of contingency plan
DRM should be declared illegal, as it is demonstrably anti-consumer and all claimers of copyright should be forced to remove it. Whatever piece of software does not get its DRM removed should be legally considered abandonware.
Yes... I agree.
DRM is also my single biggest headache in archiving the old programs I own, and saving them from data corruption.
A dying floppy disk needs copying at the first available opportunity.
But DRM often makes that needlessly difficult.
Any developer using DRM is basically saying they don't give a shit about their own games, and doesn't care if they die, become unplayable and vanish from the face of the earth some time in the future.
It's the ultimate example of treating games as disposable garbage, and ignoring any artistic, cultural or historic value they may have...
@@KuraIthys well said 👍
@Tom The Fish Ironicly Japan is the only region, and Outside of US due to. Japan has the games I fucking want due to lack of censorshipo, CHINA I do not buy games from them. Triple A games on average I ignore. US games on average are piss poor from my personal experience.
To be fair it should not be allowed only when you are paying for the service. I'm ok with DRM in free applications
I just want more fps but it will be a heaven for pirates if that happens
....DRM will destroy the gaming world....very sad we dont even own physical copies anymore..
Blu-ray games should be sold these days. Steam, Epic Games, Microsoft Store, Ubistore, EA program, etc., may go out of business; and any country may ban them. Do not underestimate the power of state- or nation-wide service prohibition: what seems improbable today will be reality tomorrow.
This is something that bothers me as well. I try to pick up the DRM free version whenever I can and also take advantage of GOG's Connect service which gives you a free copy of some games that you own on steam from time to time. Also your idea of picking up the GOTY versions is also something i try to do as its the most sensible option.
The only issue with physical media is that they stop working after a while as well, so in reality nothing is going to last but we can manage as best as we can. I have started collecting physical copies of some games, the games that I really like and that I know I am going to play again.
You could always upload the physical media copy data to a cloud storage service, as another backup, in case your physical no longer works. I think all this turmoil is going to spark a rise in piracy, especially of GOTY editions, to circumvent problems of DRM like Denuvo, exclusive store deals, and worrying about their longevity. And with free programs like Gameplay Time Tracker, you can still keep statistics on your playtime, without using any of those other DRM clients.
@@CyberClu It's not even just the disc degrading, but being able to run it on modern systems. I own Black & White (2001) on disc for example, but it is next to impossible to get running on WIndows 10.
That's another reason why I stick with Windows 7 or Windows 8.1. Also, check out the modding scene. They offer a lot of help getting older games to run on newer systems.
😒 supposedly cd dvd bluray need to be stored in a cool dry place like a Fallout Bunker 💿😍💿 U also have hard drives and backup tapes 😊
@@CyberClu 🙂 yup, i had to go back to using 7 because way too many of my original retail cds & dvds wont run on 10, and i think its stupid i have to pay again for the game if my disc is in excellent condition 🙄
Even physical games are rented. If you read the fine print inside the box, it says that the ownership is the company. You are only paying to be able to play it.
I have disks that won't install without building a retro machine. I have CD's that refuse to install because they have copy protection that wont work unless you have the right DVD/CD reader, then there's disks that are plain old fashioned damaged and won't work.
Not all games came on high quality media, in fact most use the cheapest mass production media that just fails unless they've been kept in a temperature/humidity controlled archive environment and only ever used once. Any game that came with a boot floppy, forget it, the chances of a working floppy 10 years after purchase is 50:50 and gets worse as time goes on.
I've repurchased many games I've owned, mostly for convenience but mainly because they won't install from the original media without said retro machine and the right one at that.
So quit worrying about the digital download and libraries your old games die because technology moves on. If you're worried archive them and create backups, but there's no guarantee that they'll install 5 years down the track without an update or the right retro machine.
@@city__lights
What you've never had a game that played on windows 98 that wouldn't install on Windows XP.
You can play your PS1 games on your PS4???
th-cam.com/video/4g_skW_0V9c/w-d-xo.html
You've never had peanut butter toast shoved into your DVD player????
You've never scratched a CD, or had one just fail (CD rot)??
You've never got an inferior CD that's very thin and flimsy??
Your CD music collection isn't games.
@@city__lights All those console games might work, but consoles themselves aren't likely to live long unless you take particular care of them. Also, what music CD has to do with games on discs? You're comparing apples to oranges here.
@@city__lights
You must be very young to not know that what you think is the exception, was back in the day the rule. OS updates can break games, that why patches are needed. Games no longer under support do not get the patches to support the new rules that new OS's bring. Even now you see with Windows 10 updates, some software can have issues until they are either patched app side or Microsoft fixes the update.
Not every game will break with a new OS, lots still work or can be made to work with compatibility modes, but there's no guarantee. One's thing is certain though, your old games on CD will eventually refuse to either work or even install once the separation of time and updated OS's gets sufficiently wide. This might only take a few years or more than a decade, but with few exceptions all of my games on CD eventually succumb to obsolescence as at some point no more patches will be made and OS support for old standards gets stopped.
Today with a resurgence in retro games, new patches are made and they are released. The kicker is though you can't patch your old copy you've had for twenty years, you have to repurchase it, it's the new online business model.
Games breaking is the rule, not the exception, especially on PC.
Just look at the long list of emulators for playing classic games. They don't work with your original media though.
@@city__lights
I s'pose you're going to recommend Soy next as the drink of champions.
@@city__lights
Nah bra
A crappy thing that xbox does is that you need an internet connection to access backwards compatability. Once microsoft takes those servers down goodbye BC. Keep in mind this only applies to BC games you havent already installed. Ps5 on the other hand can play any ps4 disc while offline.
The nintendo wii shop closing just 3 days ago is an example of this. The company isn't even gone and they have shut it down. If you didn't have your games downloaded by that date they are gone forever unless you repurchase them on the switch marketplace. Until they shut that down in the future as well.
Sony is slowly pulling support to PS3 as well.... This is the reality of the Digital Distribution.
Marcusius no this is reality of console gaming not pc
@@Anthonyspartan514 sorry to bust your buble but i have some games that wont work anymore because of the OS. Have u tried ur games that are compatible with windows 95?
Marcusius have you ran them with windows compatibility
I can remember one case when games for windows live shut down you could no longer use your game saves. Idk if they ever patched it. For many games I think it's still a problem.
if you buy the discs you're still gonna need the day one patches
so? whats your point? you still need them with digital too except you download the game AND the patches, using up data with caps, and causing isp to throttle you if you download too much. At least you have a physical copy of the game were a company cannot just ban you, your account, or get hacked and somebody steal your games, or, the company changes something or goes offline, and your games no longer work. O_o what kind of rational is that? makes no sense....literally.
At least you have the base version of the game physically on consoles
@@Zuluknob and that’s a problem
GOG is epic. There are also DRM free games released through Steam, though they are never advertised as DRM free
The game, after puchased, never is yours, you not buy "a game" you buy a "right of use" since, the software never is yours
Yes, even with discs.
While legally this is true, with hard copy games you effectively had a perpetual licence. It was not really possible to revoke the licence in any enforceable way, whereas nowadays the licencor can pretty much just turn the game off and remove it from existence if they want to. So while previously purchasing a game may not have technically conferred ownership, in every practical sense it might as well have. Especially compared to today's user rights.
@@Pushing_Pixels How is possessing the files on your hard drive any different? They can't just delete it from your hard drive either. Just a different storage medium. You can still play it, you just can't download it (unless there's always-online DRM or something, but that would affect discs as well).
@@Malus1531 Sure, but "always online" DRM is much more common now than it was when hard copies were the norm. It's also something that can be easily added to a game that is automatically updated through an online client. The point is, with disc only DRM you are relatively safe, whereas with online you are vulnerable.
@Damian Chiliński I've seen conflicting reports of this online. Some say it consistently stops working after 2-4 weeks, some say they've been offline for 6 months with no issue. Does Steam have an official post on it? Maybe it depends on the game? I've also heard that just setting back your clock will fix it. And yeah you can always crack it. For PC at least, modern discs often won't do you much good. Many still require a login to Steam or some other launcher, lack some or all of the game files (requiring a download), or require some contact with a server to validate the CD key. Console is better about it, you can mostly play offline from disc. Many games do release in a broken state these days though and get fixed with patches, day 1 or otherwise. Digital isn't much better; the EULA of Sony has the same type of language as Valve with respect to licensing and revoking your games.
In any case, I'm not too worried about my digital games. While Valve has no legal obligation to unlock your games if they go out of business, I'm optimistic they'd do something to make it right, or that another company would buy Steam and keep it running. And if not, the good people of the internet will surely find a way to make it work.
If a game is on both GOG and Steam I buy from GOG so that I can download the actual game for installation later. Also there is no DRM with GOG.
I've actually experienced this. Years back Gamestop used to sell PC game keys. They had a binder with a list of games, you pick one and get the key on your receipt. To claim the game you had to download the Gamestop App (a launcher like Steam). Eventually they shut down the service, and I lost access to those games. There was supposed to be a way to still access your game elsewhere, but I could never get it to work. I tried contacting support and just got the runaround. Nobody even knew what the service was, kept thinking I was talking about the Gamestop mobile app. Eventually I got frustrated and just gave up. Never did get those games back.
Malus now I'm happy that I never actually bought into that service. noticed it being advertised in different places when they did do it and I almost regularly purchased from them.
Ide file a lawsuit if lawsuit fails, JOIN THE HIGH SEAS!
The biggest worries are game preservation, there has to be some sort of legit ways of keeping old game alive for future generations
Pirates are doing that ;-)
The idea you won't be able to install a game again if a company goes down is complete and utter BS. It's known as backing up your software. You shouldn't rely on digital distribution for game backup. Once you buy a game, you should presume no further contact with shop. Back up your games. Since Steam is DRM, it's not allowed for most of their games to be backed up. So when it goes down, you lose it even to be able to play. Since the game won't work without being connected to online Steam account. That is the problem with DRM and digital distribution. The problem isn't being unable to recover games you have backed up. The problem is not truly owning your games in order to back them up.
Also consumers DID NOT switch to digital because of convenience ease of use. They were forced to use it for DRM.
DRM is crap
I NEVER buy games with DRM, period. I'd rather play 30 year old games than support companies that sell inferiour products. DRM is a waste of time, constant annoyance and reduce value of the product. It's also a huge disrespect to those who spent their talent creating these games, as DRM stops many game from being used in the future. I've got a shitload of CD-ROMs and DVD-ROMs that can't be used anymore because the DRM doesn't work on newer versions of Windows, or the activation servers no longer work.
I've been leaving so many comments trying to get some people to understand that this is *not* competition, and Steam is *not* a monopoly. Ironically, this faux "competition" some are celebrating.. is actually the *opposite* of it. Here's a comment I responded to one of the many people who thought this pushback with Metro was over some launcher..
*My thoughts on Epic's anti-competitive practices...*
If they were both selling all available games, as supermarkets all carry the same cereal and other products, and actually *competing* on price.. that's good competition and it benefits customers. If we instead devolve into two armed camps, with half the games releasing on Steam and the other on Epic, this isn't competition as we know it, it's focus on their launchers above the products. Let me explain, if these two (right now just Epic) stores split the games and lock theirs away behind a wall of exclusivity as consoles do, there will be *no motivation to lower prices,* ever. Why would they? It doesn't matter what the other guy (Steam) has, or how much they're charging.. since Epic will have the *only* right to sell someone's game. That is *not* competition. It's just the opposite.
Take a look at the two console's stores, PSN and XLive. Compare the prices on games that are available on Steam as well. Even 3 or 4 year old games are still $50-60 on console stores, and on Steam? $5-10. At least they have arbitrary excuses in the form of proprietary hardware.. here? they're just dividing a market that has always been free and open. People saying "Steam had a monopoly" are just not too bright. Steam has no exclusives. They don't make exclusivity deals with publishers.
Many of the games available on Steam are available elsewhere, and the ones that aren't, are only that way because the creator just put it there thinking anyone / everyone could access it on a well known and very stable store, that hosts cloud storage as well as taking the first line of support albeit a community help section or a set of instructions from the publisher on how to get around a problem. They also had that return policy that I've never understood why people use it.. blindly buying games without watching reviews makes this a service to fools, in my opinion, but they still have this in the absence of "competition." They didn't do these things because someone else did and forced their hand.. they did this stuff on their own in a vacuum.. just like those sales that cut up to 85% off some games multiple times a year.. and I'm not talking about some sill indy games for kids, either.
People who support a new store that came out of the gate with a questionable EULA regarding data and privacy questions, and immediately putting two major games behind a wall of exclusivity.. are just creating a new console-like market on our free platform. Remember.. two armed camps hoarding games and being able to charge *anything they want* because nobody can have it.. is going to be the turning point. We'll quickly see games with base price tags of $100 instead of $60. It's like inviting XLive and PSN to manage our games on PC.
*Potential arguments:*
*"B-but Steam was the only place to get..."* NO. No it wasn't. Steam had no exclusive deals with any publishers. You could get most games on GOG, Ubisoft, Bethesda, etc., and it was the choice of the developer where they put it, and they didn't have to pick one place.
*"B-but Steam didn't have support"* So, either visit the publisher's site or call them.. or better yet *use the Steam support site.* Yes, there is a community full of people who find fixes and workarounds and post them there, and this includes the devs posting recommendations as well. Epic doesn't even have a way to search for games (unless they only have 8 games).. never mind support.
*"B-but.. what about the problem I had with it not working on my.."* Suck it up and figure out how to install games and find fixes off the internet, and stop assuming Steam or anyone else is there to help with basic install and troubleshooting.
There are no good excuses for wanting console-like exclusivity on a platform where we own our hardware exclusively (not proprietary console hardware).. People should not defend an effort to bring all of the disadvantage of this system to our platform. In the end, it has *nothing* to do with another launcher existing.. it has to do with the building of exclusivity walls. It would be one thing if it were their own games.. (how'd you feel when Bethesda decided to forego Steam and lock their game behind their launcher?) It doesn't matter what Fallout 76 turned out to be bad, if it were a fantastic game and you had to install their mess of a launcher (familiar with ESO?).. you'd thing that was bad enough.. but these are *other people's games.*
Larry Gall I've had to use the refund service but it was because of an inexplicable issue where for no apparent reason a game was constantly crashing within 5 minutes of being launched and played. otherwise I never use that part of steam's service.
anyway I hope more people actually read through your comment. it's absolutely true that epic isn't actually trying to compete and is just interested in making the most money it can through exclusives.
Well on console it's different then PC . PC are open consoles are not. Consoles are owned by major corporations and they are in the business of making the most profit as possible. Hopefully the console market will open up like the PC market where you have more then just 3 consoles to choose from. Once we hit over 10 different consoles all coming out at different times then I can see something changing. I fear ita just a dream
You forgot that epic has Chinese spyware in the code
The best way is to get what you can on GOG and have a couple of separate back up drives with all the games on it, I've hit 3000+ games on Steam and what happens when i eventually die, Can I leave everything I've digitally bought for my Son or Grandson or does it just disappear? It's also the case with my digital video library what rights do I have in that woest case scenarion? I'm already close to 50 so I've not got that many decades left. At the end of the day having everything digital means we will of spent thousands of pounds over an average lifetime.
Not all businesses go out of business, not by a long shot. Tell that to Ryokan who opened in 718 AD, or Sean's pub who opened in 900 AD, or north America's Hudson Bay Company who just celebrated their 348th year in the retail business. There are many thousands of companies that keep on trucking, even through the worst of times.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oldest_companies
I think a secondary issue, the one where I have a large 360 game library, several consoles and my kids can pick a game and play it and play different games at the same time on the different consoles while my 1600+ game steam library have TERRIBLE support for letting my kids enjoy the games. Sure I can "share" them but only ONE instance of ANY of my 1600+ games can be running at once.
Digital distribution will be sooooo great is what we heard even back in the -90's. Now the tune is "well, buy one copy of every game for every kid in your house and then they will be able to enoy them just like with your 360 collection"... STONE AGE!
Daniel Liljeberg family sharing could be improved for sure. I don't even have that on my account but I have logged myself out of steam on 2 different computers by running different games on each. just out of curiosity to see what would happen. otherwise it was just stream from one computer to the other.
Just log in with your account on your kids' PC, download the games, let it verify them, then go "offline mode"! It stops checking your account and plays the games like if you wouldn't have internet connection.
@@peterkiss1204 I know about "tricking" the system. But the point is, I shouldn't have to. They should be able to keep in touch with their Steam friends and play my games as long as I'm not playing them.
Hello from 4 years in the future! It is never to late to set sail!
you can do couch gaming on you PC too
I've been noticing this trend along with one other trend that scares me more then anything. Online activation and renewal activation or verification.
I went off grid for 5 months 1 week into my off grid gaming experience and I couldn't play any of my Disk based games or digital games even though I paid for them, Because of digital verification all my game design software, modelling software and Games I had purchased through Epic, Origins, Steam and War Gaming dot Net, were unusable and un-playable. Adobe, and Creative Cloud also closed out on me. Someone needs to address this issue and figure out how to fix it. This is a huge problem for both current users and mediaphiles alike.
This is why I support places like GoG... DRM free games, sadly we just need MOAR games from them and better implementation of the "DRM free Steam games"
I already experienced the consequence of the discussed issue with MP3 files. About 10-15 years ago I bought a lot of DRM MP3 music from various smaller online stores. All of that music is lost now. One way or another I failed to keep copies of the music, and now there is no where to download the music again, although I have payed for the rights to use the files (ownership is not the right word here). This was technology moving forward witg Spotify as the tip of the sword. No big loss for me, but it's about the principle!
Yes, but what if the disc broke - again you loose your "property"
or got stolen, or eaten by a pet, or scratched by a sibling. lots of ways for physical to go bad
@@bradhaines3142 In fact a lot of our old xbox 360 games have left us. Or maybe they aren't broken I just don't know we still have them. :/
Back in the days of DVDs there was the same debate of not putting DRM on disks so they can be easily backed up, which was the main reason for high use of applications like daemon tools or alcohol 120%, now the discussion is regarding online DRM.
Thank you I never even knew about GOG!!
GOG is the best place to get games. You don't have to worry if they go out of business, or if a disk breaks, the games will work regardless. They also take better care to make sure older games are patched to run on modern HW and OS.
@@TheGoodOldGamer Hey thanks for the awesome advise it's always nice to know that people have your back.
During sales on gog, they have something called GOG Connect. GoG connects to your steam account and unlocks the same game on their platform for free. They only do it will developers that agree to doing this.
This is something that I've thought about for many years, pretty much ever since around the late 00's when companies like EA and ubisoft were crippling many of their games with constant online authentication and many other intrusive forms of DRM. Many of those discs i own are useless to me now. Which is one of the major reasons i'm a huge supporter of GOG. I have an entire HDD fill with GOG backups
It's pretty similar to how the market is now flooded with 'service' based games, that will inevitably have their servers shut down.
Right there with you man, I've started really putting time into backing up my media but this has been on my mind recently
Now once I saw activision pull off of steam I felt a change in the wind. DRM free or physical for long term gaming
This was my issue with Steam 10 years ago. You can bet your ass that if I own it on Steam, I also have a pirated copy, nothing illegal about protecting your investments. Caveat Emptor
Fat chance that will happen when most people have 100's of games on steam in their collection and steam will go drm free if such a situation arises.
I'll always buy physical game over a digital one. The real problem is you can never own your own games since you can't sell them or trade them you're pretty much stuck with it until the publisher decides to pull the plug on the server
You touched on it a bit, but if it really scares you can’t you download everything on a huge hard drive and keep a backup of steam offline mode on another computer? It’d be a lot of work but I wonder in theory if it’s possible
Just heard about GOG. glad I did.
Steam claims to have a plan (they said so years ago. - if the service goes down they have a patch ready and waiting to kill the steam specific DRM), but it remains to be seen if this is real or not, and whether they'd actually do it in the end.
I've just recently witnessed the Wii Shop shutting down, and everything it took with it.
You can still download stuff you've bought...
... For now.
And while keeping the files locally is fine, they'll work offline...
The fact of the matter is there's not enough space to store the files in internal storage on a wii, and I've always found SD cards a bit hit and miss on the system, sometimes a game copied to SD card won't launch, and the file will be permanently corrupted, with your only option to re-download it.
In fact, because of the shutdown, I've tried to ensure I have everything I legally own, but... Something like 1/3 isn't working after download.
And that's not even a situation where it becomes unplayable just because the service shuts down.
The games DO still work...
But... Yeah.
I collect DRM-free and physical releases where possible, but even then you nowadays find that physical releases of games often don't contain the complete set of game files, or there's an online activation component, or something equally stupid that prevents it from working...
So... You could just find you wake up one day and none of your games work...
It sucks.
4 years later and we have the same issue but now consoles want to go all digital by 2028 and i will not go down that road if I can’t own the disc then I won’t buy the game.
My understanding is, in America right to repair applies to software also. That could mean removing DRM from a company who's games went under.
@The Good Old Gamer
If you are not aware, there are international laws that say if a game does not have online support, then the company needs to let the community access to tools to keep the online services online freely and by the community.
Same with games, it the games are not playable because drm is flawed or does not work properly then if you own the game you or anyone else(as long as it is in your system owned by same person owning the game) can freely crack the drm without any legal repercussions (this last part is atm only active in few states including NY and these laws started last year and still being adopted all over us and in other countries).
Also why steam games work when you are offline is because most laws all over the globe, including EU, says if you own a game you need to be able to play it even if you do not have internet connection (excluded are pure online games, but they have another law basically as i already said above, if there is no servers anymore for a online game the community can make their own and the game maker/current title owner can not stop them, instead if the players ask for tools to make the online game work then that company needs to comply) .
2:22 nothing is safe... you have drm free that can be lost as well and never to be able to download, you have PHYSICAL media that can fail due to physical problems and so on... at that point... what happens when you scratch your game dvd/cd/bray ?
3:07 again.. the same argument... you scratch the disc you don't own the game....
True.
BrianBCG not to mention that it means less hassle with making your own backups. so longer potential usability as well.
I like the idea of physically owning your game, but before steam, where I lived, there were no game stores of any kind, the only games you could buy were bootleg CDs and you could easily get scammed or worse with those, It was only a while after steam came along that stores started having a small section dedicated to games, and places like ebay started getting popular. So as a result, the only physical games that I own are old nintendo cartridges which were for some reason widely available. I understand the risks of digital distribution, but TBH I don't think the fault actually lies with the method of distribution itself (digital distribution), but rather with the aggressive DRM models that lock the game down not allowing copies to be made.
I think it would be very consumer friendly if companies simply removed any DRM after say 1 or 2 years, they've probably made 99.9% of all the money they could after that point and they can only stand to gain goodwill with the community for completely removing DRM from their titles. But considering industry trends, I don't think that will happen. Quite the opposite, it seems companies are moving more towards more control over their games with "cloud streaming" the games we bought from a remote server, never having access to the files & a push for online-only and "games as a service" model which only further takes control away from the client who rightfully purchased the product and locks it down to the whims of the producers. Not to mention planned obsolescence and other such underhanded tactics. I'd be very happy if in the future DRM-free games become the norm.
The truth is that remote gaming will become a thing but unfortunately it will come with the new video game crash. You see the market is over saturated and remote streaming games is what will bring in the high number of gamers that cannot afford good computers or consoles and it will make high end PC's obsolete but in its place will come new PC's with homebrew and indie titles that will over saturate the market and remote gaming will go the way of block buster as right now anyone can make a game. Streaming games is a good idea but in the end only on high internet speeds. Back in the 90's games were low budget and made by ordinary programmers and designers but today you see giant corporation employing talented people to do their bidding. Wait for the day of the crash when all the talented people go out on their own and start making games. Streaming is a good idea but it has a flaw.... it will never push the envelope nor will it be part of the modern age as its old school already and we need an evolution in our lives something that was never seen before. Online gaming is dying and more people want personalised customisation in games. As for DRM in games.... I never understood it and I cannot understand publishers and devs trying to stop people from playing their games. NO GAME IS WORTH MORE THAN WHAT YOU ARE WILLING TO PAY FOR IT. That is why devs need to give away at least a level before requesting payment. Sample gaming is the future.
Some companies have started removing Denuvo and other DRM after initial sales of the game. Capcom recently did this with Resident Evil 7
I don't think this is gonna happen even if steam goes down they will have to give permanent rights to its users if not they will have to transfer the owners data to the respective game developers so they could add them into the database otherwise Steam or anyone else will face a class action law suit.
The problem isn't even that Valve goes out of business. They might eventually stop supporting old versions of Windows in the Steam client as compilers drop support for legacy systems. What happens to all the games that don't run properly on newer Windows?
Good subject and information - I always try to buy from GOG first - it is a shame major games don't release there. Thank God GOG controls Cyberpunk 2077!
I never pay for a game but rather just play free games. Problem is if there will be even mass online shooter servers working for the game if the game goes out of business. I am on Epic only and the only game which works on my 120 GB SSD is Heroes & Generals. The rest needs to much disk space. That is the reason I never would ever pay for a game and who knows if a game even will have any players in a few years...
Best is just to stick with CSGO and the like. As long as they are free to play. Stick with what's free. Switch to another game if the Service or company goes bancrupt. H&G did that as they sold out and now they are on Epic and Steam.
On the day consumer laws catch up with downloads steam will be out of business as not one of their games will pass quality controls.
steam is not going anywhere. it's the biggest PC platform. Only reason some developers are moving to epic store is that they get bigger share from the sales. But as a customer you pay almost the same price as when buying from steam. All steam has to do to get them back is lower the cut they take.
Exactly.. There is the main problem, and the reason why other companies, such as EA and Epic making their own platforms.
Valve's 30% sales cut is a bit too harsh. Say if it were 20% or even 15%, things would probably look a bit different
hopefully if steam, epic or whatever launcher used, will have a warning before closing and will send out drm free updates. This is exactly why I have large hard drives with everything installed and only cross over games I am playing to an ssd for faster access. my friends think im nuts to save every game. Will see who's hurting when things go south and they're rushing to find large hard drives to save everything.
there is also the problem of having your old hdd crapping out i had all of them freaking failing
He make good points here, but in these days & times, the game itself is not enough. These games require patches, which is on a server & what about the DLC, which also runs on a server. (If u buy just the physical media, u get no updates, patches, DLC ETC.)
I already had one Steam game that needed a crack to actually run. I also have some games that already include dosbox or something similar in the package (this is done by the publisher). Steam also has the new Steam Play aka Proton which i used and it already works for many titles with some caveats... but if you think this is to support Linux gamers, you don't see the big picture - I believe this is exactly their bet to preserve compatibility, with us Linux gamers used as (pretty high quality) beta testers.
DXVK already runs on (and is developed on) Windows, to emulate Windows (it emulates DirectX and reders to Vulkan). Proton uses DXVK.
Steam just recently dropped support for Windows XP, so if you want to build a retro system for gaming experience from 2003, your library is gone. And even if you upgrade to a newer OS, already some of the games that worked on XP don't work as well on 7/10 (most often it's trivial stuff like hardware gamma support or switching CRT modes or something).
So Valve clearly sees this problem and works on solving it with emulation. It's probably the most logical, too.
And I hope they succeed, because some of the games there were never available as boxed copies or on other platforms, and some use Steam API for match lobbies or whatever (like Quake Live, it was abandoned by id, but they moved it to Steam exclusive with Steam as server browser, so as long as Steam exists, people can host servers and play).
I bet Steam Play is a step in the direction of completely containerized games. Find a configuration that works and keep it exactly like it is for ages.
Why I love steam, always 5 steps ahead of the game. Plus all my old games work perfectly in Linux, which is a plus.
I have already been buying back some of my Steam library on GoG.
This doesn't really explain how Steam got big by using adware techniques of applying it onto games as mandatory installation.
You still have to load up the launcher to play any game on any platform so if they go out of business you still can’t play the game
Except for GOG. No launcher required ;)
@@TheGoodOldGamer for me whenever I load the new game cyberpunk 2077 it always opens their launcher and syncs to their “galaxy cloud” before opening the game
That, going only discs way for consoles didnt age well with the recent news.. EVEN DISCS wont work on ps4, SOME ps3, and I predict they wont work on the ps5 and so on.. Discs dont have the games on them anymore.. they are just a key to download the game.. or authorize it.
My plan right now is to buy all my games now on GoG or steam since I think they get most of the PS and Xbox excluslives anyways right? Horizon... gears of war.. halo.. that seems like my safest option for the future since discs wont work on consoles.. and the digital market on consoles will go away eventually.
Steam DRM is laughably easy to circumvent, and almost all the games that are pirated simply replace the steam executable with a custom one that allows the game to be launched without accessing Steam. So if Steam goes away, all the currently installed games can be run as long as the pirated steam executables are applied.
Doesn't bother me because i only invest in software if i have full control over it. So i *only* buy GOG games instead of Steam games and i use Linux as much as possible... ;-)
just because other companies are doing e-stores it doesn't mean Steam is going out of business. Do you really think the epic store is likely to last? Steam is not in any trouble.
Fortunately, games like Mass Effect has very good modding communities, who has also brought controller support for the Trilogy games on the PC
Same goes for Dragon Age
The big thing which will kill off some of these game shops is games streaming as a service. If the shops do not introduce this scheme I am sure some will go out of business within the next 10 years or so for that reason.
For playing backwards compatible disks on Xbox you need to download game specific patch. When you don't have internet connection or Microsoft stops supporting your Xbox model you are doomed too.
If that happens you can always get an x360 or original Xbox and continue playing the game.
I guess so, unfortunately those devices are old and break easily. My last resort are emulators.
What I would do with steam, if it dies. I would download the very last version of steam, copy my entire steam folder and on a new machine I would install the last copy of steam. This works ( currently with an email verify caveat)
There was a screensaver company called second nature, they had a drm system, which like steam was email verify, when they closed down, the last control exe they released for their screen savers removed the email verify. Now I can install the pictures on any machine, with the caveat I still need the screensaver controller to decide the special compression they used
Buy a large drive to back them up so if your main drive fails you can reload and play away.
That is my plan do to my main drive failing and I did not have these backed up, a lesson learned on my part.
Nothing lasts for ever though, but I do not see steam going away any time soon.
I started gaming with the Atari 2600 and have gamed on alot of the consoles and now that i play more on the PC using a controller to play the games is almost a must - i have tried to use Keyboard aand Mouse for gaming - i just can't get used to the major difference between using a Controller vs Keyboard + Mouse. The lack of Controller support is the PC's biggest weakness if PC gaming wants to Convert "Console" owners to PC making Controller support for all Games would almost be Required so that the current players who choose to use Consoles will still have the same ability to play all of the games they would want to.
From one old gamer to another, I've thrown away boxes of old games that don't work on current or even recent operating systems. As far as consoles go, they break and you would have to repair them or buy used ones (not as easily as fixing a computer). Steam does work offline and as long as you back up your library you will have your games (no boxes to store or throw away). I won't join Epic Games because their games won't work offline and other reasons. I miss Privateer, Sid Meyers Railroad Tycoon, Half-Life, Doom, SM Pirates, Civilization, and Ultima
Well for most of my steam games still have a product key so yeah they should still work even without steam.
In 100 years I would be at the cemetery
ill be in 50 :)
Truth bomb 🤣🤣🤣
I keep a few retro machines in operation for the couple hundred games I have on discs. GamesXCopy still works on WINXP, for making backups to play from, while keeping the original discs safe. I resisted STEAM for a long time, knowing that it would all collapse some day, but that was back when stores still had aisles full of boxed PC games. Everything I have spent on STEAM was with the knowledge that it was gone as soon as STEAM went under, as all businesses do, eventually. The fact remains that if you want to play the new stuff, you have to use the digital platforms. I hate it, but I understand it. GOG is another great option, as you said. In the past few years I have picked up older games I wanted on disc through ebay, too. Even if the internet gets locked down, I'll still have my library to play through, not that I would have much time to play if we get that far down the rabbit hole.
What game is this at about 4:15
EDIT: guessing "Black"?
"With the majority of AAA titles leaving the platform and..." I think there's something slightly off with that statement.
try downloading black ops 4, most EA games, most Blizzard games, fortnite, fallout 76 (i know it was garbage but it is AAA), now metro exodus, from steam.
@@kintustis Most of what you just mentioned never left the platform, they were never on it. Most AAA titles are available on steam. And the majority of them have not left the platform. There's a big difference between other developers having their own platform already and a claim that the floodgates have been opened and they lost the majority of their AAA titles.
@@decadentia84 then it's more like they lost their AAA "partnerships." the point isn't that games are being retroactively pulled from the platform - cause they're not - and it wouldn't surprise me if they can't be removed anyways. We all know EA isn't throwing an army of lawyers at valve to get bad company 2 off steam. The point is more that Steam is receiving less and less current AAA games, so their library is transforming from the be all, end all collection of video games, to just another competitor.
@@kintustis That's a point to a strawman. Please re-read what I originally posted. It's pretty obvious there's more competition these days.
I go to steam for the Indie and early release anyways, those are the real gems.
I remember back then when Steam was pretty new I had thoughts about this, especially when you reinstalled your Half Life Orange box it asked if you wanted to register the game key at steam.
Maybe use blockchain? All purchases on a public ledger, those that bought it can only use the game. You can also sell your digital game WITHOUT any third-party. Only potential problem with my model is you need internet access. Which is multiplayer only games is totally fine
One of the games i play the most is FFXI . When i forst started playing FFXI was on the Somy PS2 back in 2004 with the North American launch. Yes i have boughten a copy from steam - its not my only one - i have the PC install files that would let me re-install the game and then enter my Passwords and other account information to be able to play. For me the steam access is pretty much so i have the option of using steam to install the game - much easier or to use the standard install method. I have bought other games through steam - alot of them i can get from the Publisher as well. If steam does go out of business - for the games other then FFXI aren't as much of a big deal.
The issue with buying physical games these days is the product isn't alway complete or even usable. Look at Kingdom Hearts 3 the final ending didn't ship on the disc. It was added in a day one patch. So having a physical copy is nice, it's not always the complete product.
The steam problem is when you die your steam library is defunct.
You still need to tell steam you died.
GOG or Piracy and bottle of rum is my choice! Ahoy!
🙂 yes stock up on hard drives and discs and a vpn if ur located in an Enforcement Police area where they have Copyrite Spy Bots monitoring the Seeds 🏖⛵☠️
Ahoy Cptain ! For my part I still built my 360 collection while playing AAA and recent release on steam.
little rambling here. I cherrish my copy of alan wake on 360 . Imagine if it would have been release today on origine from EA : Buy wake points to purchase flashlight battery 🤣
@@MrVitalic85 😎 cool, i just bought a pc version of alan wake, its a bundle 2 disc, it has Nightmare for 2nd game, oddly its not a steam game which is great! 😃 its published by Valusoft, it comes with a key but the drm is the discs themselves so just like the 360 console disc which i have as well you never need internet to install or activate or play the game, thats how it should be for all games✌️😏📀📀🎮🕹️
@@MrVitalic85 🙂 correct me too, i buy discs for my PC, my PS3, my PS2, my 360, i prefer discs that never need internet to install activate play, i also download a few games from nonenglish Pbay websites but not too many because i dont have enuf hard drives to store the repacked n cracked downloads, newer games are too fukn big! LOL ☺️📀
As long as i have access while I am alive and I'm not dead, doesn't matter if steam dies so as far that I'm alive to play them
This is a serious issue and goes much beyond "just" games :(
I prefer physical copies too for the same reason, if these digital distribution companies ever go bankrupt then there goes your whole game library that you invested so much money into but these days even the physical copies just come with an installer for steam like the Total War games. These days since games come out with so much DLC and they eventually release a "Game of the Year" or "Complete" edition after the original release I just scoop up the original release for $10-25 or less or wait for the "Game of the Year" edition that has all the DLC already included before I purchase a game. I prefer to buy the game for PS4 if possible so I can have the physical disc except for RTS games or games like Skyrim that you can heavily mod which I prefer to play on PC.
Nintendo have over 100 years old :P If the devs didnt give me the possibility to play my purchased games I think the download of a crack for the game or emulating its the way to go. Also for the ps3 and ps4 I try to buy the phisical game rather than digital. I had the click when sony shut down the servers for Demons Souls, I still can play the game, but there are some items and the real fun part of the game that only works online
As long as you stick to Steam you can pretty much guarantee access no matter what happens.
This is one of the reasons i refuse to switch platforms, untill others can guarantee my access to my purchased games, i don't feel comfortable leaving Steam.
what happen if steam only takes 5% sales revenue? and do dirty business (exclusive game launcher)
other game launcher : "shit now we're fucked"
i hope this never be happen
I really hope that people watch overlord gaming videos about DRM so people can request DRM free games.
Good points Good o'l.
For that reason I like physical media as well, although even that can be a future bust as in games nowadays often need big (day one) patches and when those update services are down you won't be able to play it in the future.
I have NEVER been a fan of digital distribution. More often than not these day's if you don't get a copy of your favorite game on some god forsaken console, that epic collectors edition for PC will have an digital artbook and a soundtrack..Ooooo. Forget any awsomebox stuffed with goodies. Never mind the fact that you risk losing your game altogether. I do have some really nice collectors editions from back in the day. All my old PC game disks still work. Sacrificed on the alter of convenience. Sad.
Game companies need to realize finally that DRM in general is garbo. CD Projekt Red sold OVER 20 MILLION copies of the Witcher 3 not in spite of removing DRM, but because of it. They claimed that it was because the pirated version acted like a demo (remember those things? I don't...). Also, the problems that come with DRM such as the one mentioned or the absolutely abysmal performance that games with DRM have such as the denuvo monstrosity of FFXV on PC or the double layered DRM destruction of Assassin's Creed: Origins.
I have a physical copy of Shadow of Mordor and Dragon Age Inquisition and both come with multiple disks for installation. I was gifted a physical copy of Fallout 4 and it has a single disk and requires a Steam download. No need to buy the physical copy if it doesn't actually contain the game.
With a combined 4TB of storage I have plenty of room on my system. I still bought a WD Element external drive and store a copy of my games on it. I had done this so I did not have to use up bandwidth every time I wanted to reinstall a game. I could transfer and update. So I suppose it will also be beneficial if your doomsday scenario unfolds as well.
Whats the FPS he is playing in most of the first half of the video?
Ehh, even Steam were to fail (which I still can't see coming) they could be taken over by the winning company, and still provide downloads for the purchased games
I have had the same concerns for some time, you presented them in a very concise way. I was planning to build a new gaming computer this winter but held off because of several factors this being one of them. The others were:
The crappy so called "triple A" games being released half finished so you have to purchase multiple DLC's to have a finished game plus the "in game" purchase B.S.
The ludicrous price of high end GPU's being north of $1000.00
The "Death Clock" for Win7 is less than one year and I despise Win10. I have it on a lap top and am not thrilled about having it on any of my PC's.
Then there is the Steam DRM STREAMING SERVICE. As far as I am concerned you don't own it if you can't play it without logging into your steam account. What's to prevent steam from requiring a monthly/yearly "subscription fee" in the future? They have many people who are "handcuffed" to the steam platform because they have so much time and money invested in the games on their steam account. Would steam lock them out of their content if they don't pay up? Would you have any rights to it as a consumer if they tried to do that? I don't know, I never read the EULA that closely. : )
So instead of building a new gaming computer this winter I upgraded my old one as much as I could and used all the spare parts to build myself a Linux PC instead (it's what I'm using now).
PC gaming is fast becoming a "niche" market. Heck most ppl don't even own a PC anymore. My concern is the whole PC gaming market is in danger of becoming a dinosaur if they continue down the present path.
Please do some actual research. Steam can't lock you out of your games. You don't even have to log in to play steam games.
Always prefer physical ownership, Microsoft dropped their music store not long ago and today I got an email from ultraviolet saying that this is winding up. Steam losing black ops 4 was a big loss but taking 30% is greedy making rival services viable to set up.
I don't think there is a way around this anything digital that you buy is rented not owned. The laws have not yet and may never balance out the new world order where the customer owns nothing. Really what is need is new digital "property rights" and an end to terms of service. Companies would fight this hard because they might lose control of IP and extra revenue. Mostly like hackers would be the only one to give you rights to the stuff you paid for.
PSA: disks do delaminate over time so re-recording onto other disks is required every so often.
ISOs and redundant storage ;). Physical is the backup
Oddly enough, all games are just digital code. The best archive method is ROM's for older games and stored on long term storage media (archive HDD's for instance) as well as cracked copies of older games or ones with the DRM removed. Most of the GOG archive are pretty good, though there's a few that are bad ports instead of the original so also something to keep in mind. Physical media is usually garbage within 5-10yrs anyway.
Was thinking about this the other day
Ideally company give a substantial amount of notice to its use base to download the games
Steam, Epic games store, Origin, Gog, Microsoft. Same thing.
Better back everything up on those burnable blueray disks.
HDD space is cheaper. On sale, you can get 6 TB NAS drives for about 100€ nowadays.
I wonder if the consoles will physically break before these companies go out of business. The Xbox and 360 in particular I can’t see lasting decades in working condition. I don’t think there is really an ideal solution unless a company like steam says they will allow users a non DRM version of the game if the company closes.
see if i was valve i wouldve made a contract that stated if valve fails before the company goes under the devs who publish games have to release an update to remove drm. just a shut off basically. so people can keep their collections. would also get more sales on their market.
"oh hey if we go under were gonna make sure we can get drm removed so people can download everything and archive it before we go under"
i played the first resident evil 2 when it came out. i still wanna play that version and would 20 years from now. same with shit like legends of dragoon from the playstation days. that should get a remaster though, itd be fucking amazing. though im guessing itd still end up being a massive game probably like 2 discs. i mean modern textures are going to take up alot more room.