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you gota remember language isnt biological and we wiped out all most all the adults so they wouldnt have had much language to pass on even if they had a complex languages before yes it could also be music but it could also be a geographicly dispersed species starting to put languages back together 1 interaction at a time
New-born we burble in the rhythm and cadence of our mother-tongue (having heard it in the womb) and this persists as our accent when acquiring language/s. Until our optic nerves develop, our 'music' is our primary bond with the family beyond our touch. Whale codas may be more like nursery rhymes, with phatic, rather than emphatic, meaning.
Hi, zoologist and marine mammal expert here. The problem is, we're thinking about it all wrong. As we've seen with dolphins, cetacean singing is not linear like see we language. It's three dimensional. A sound wave moving through water exists in a 3D space. Cetaceans can "read" these, if you l could look at a cross section of these sound waves in motion, you'd see there are minute differences in each depending on the sound being made. This is what constitutes the language of whales. Humans need to stop trying to brute force other species' languages into simple forms we understand, like letters or "alphabets". That's just not how it works. We need to change our thinking to understand them, not try to make them fit our rigid language systems.
@@hamasmillitant1 Unfortunately true. Whales have dialects, just like we do. Their songs have changed drastically in the last decade, not just because of the reasons you outlined, but because human caused noise pollution has forced them to sing louder and higher than before, because the lower, longer traveling frequencies get drowned out by the noise. So they're essentially stuck using only half of their "alphabet", for lack of a more appropriate word.
I was at the beach in Maui. I had done my hair because we were going to a fancy lunch. Someone said, "If you go under water you an hear the whales talking." So much for the hairdo. I put my head under and could hear them beeping.My daughtervsaid, "Wonder what they are saying." I said, "They're saying, , "If you put your head out of the water you can hear the people talking.'"
@@locrianphantom3547 but since tempo and instrument and accent all affect the sound, and chords can be made, you don't have a reachable limit to music. and don't forget that voice and most string instruments are continuous in pitch, and not discrete like pianos or xylophones, so it's easy to not be confined under 12 tet.
@@RowanAckerman Same with words. Besides, what I’m trying to say is that some motifs are impossible to capture in 12 tet. For example, you can listen to Gleam (22 tet) by Sevish. If you listen to his 12 tet remake, it doesn’t carry the same meaning, and no other combination in 12 tet carries that exact same meaning.
Meanwhile Whales: "Do humans have a language or is that a far fetched idea" "Abstract: We all know that intelligence and fin size are correlated, can we entertain the idea of a fin-less intelligence?"
Counterpoint: *OLD Whale* : My grandfather was attacked by a human on a small floaty thing with a pointy thing that was as long as a small shark. Then my mother was nearly killed by humans on large and loud floaty thing who attacked her with a weirder pointy thing as long as a medium sized shark from far far far away. Now humans stopped attacking us but the big weird floaty things got bigger and bigger and are always so loud. And sometimes they follow our pot but without attacking us...weird. If we belive that whales are smart then whals would tell and speak about Legends and history. The old Whales would tell the newer generations that humans changed in a whales lifetime wich would proof that humans are changing but making things. Of course how do you teach somebody what a boat is or what craftmanship is to somebody that has neither arms nor the need for a boat?
If whales are smart enough to communicate complex ideas, they would probably be smart enough to understand that we can also communicate based on observing our complex social behavior
I thought of SETI too. I find it ironic that astronomers and others talk of a 'great silence ' when we can't even understand a fellow mammal with so much of the same DNA. Aliens will be, alien.
What we perceive as pitch and timbre is just pulses when slowed down. If they perceive their own clicks more like tone and color than discrete clicks, then those two whales could've been harmonizing.
They echolocate, so there is some speculation that the clicks are actually percieved as 3 dimensional objects by the whales. It's possible that some additional information is contained in other aspects of the click and how the sound is projected through the water.
Clicks are distinct sounds while a tone, when slowed down, is a connected set of waves. Clicks would have their own frequency both in tone and in how often the click happens. It's possible to speed up a clicking to sound like a tone, but that's just our own brains' limitations on being able to tell rapid but distinct sounds apart. Structurally they're still different
Can you explain what you mean by "connected set of waves"? Can't a repetitive sequence of click - silence - click - silence ... still be seen as one large overall waveform? I don't see why this fails to be "connected".
I read some research several years ago about dolphins seemingly using names for each other, using and repeating specific whistles when meeting particular individuals they knew, and sometimes announcing themselves by whistling their own "name," which tells us something about these animals' sense of identity and self as well as their communicative abilities.
Actually, I'd say all that tells us is that a lot of humans have a lot of trouble looking at non-human behaviour without anthropomorphizing it. By saying the dolphins are using names for each other, you are assuming first that they have a sense of self and identity, and second that they are capable of abstracting that sense of self and identity into sounds. That is the basic assumption you have to make in order to claim they are using "names", because of what "names" are. There is a huge leap between the observed behaviour of "making certain sounds around particular individuals" and "dolphins use sounds to represent abstract concepts of identity". If you saw a group of humans speaking a foreign language doing this, you could make reasonable inferences about the meaning of those sounds, but *dolphins aren't humans*.
@@JohnnyFedora1 You're really dismissing a published and and peer-reviewed piece of research without even having read it, with no knowledge of the methodology or reasoning, and based purely on your instant reaction to a couple of sentences in the TH-cam comment section? I have a few ideas on what that might tell us too.
even if the sperm whale phonetic system turns out to be less like words and language and more like music I wonder about the possibility of using it on ships as signifiers to whales. We could take maybe an couple uncommon possible combination of clicks, for large cargo vessels, medium sized vessels, and small vessels. ans start using those to broadcast as the ship sails. and with that, even if those clicks mean nothing to whales in reality, we signify our otherness and with experience give them information about what is approaching. in essence telling them whether they need to avoid something like a large container ship which can cause a dangerous collision, or to not be bothered by a small vessel approaching.
@@pansepot1490 I am only tangentially aware of it, but quick search has led me to the international whaling commission page on the subject. To quote that webpage "It is thought that mortality due to ship strikes may make the difference between extinction and survival for [the north Atlantic right whale]" and "Most reports of collisions between whales and vessels involve large whales, but all species can be affected. "
@@pansepot1490yeah, it's actually pretty huge. Ship strikes are one of the most common causes of premature death for many whale species and could drive several large whale species to extinction if they keep up at current rates
They'd probably be drawn to it, not scared. The best way for whales (I am more knowledgeable about Killer Whales tbf) are to learn to avoid the ships as a foreign thing. When whales become used to ships and even feel they are harmless, death by propeller is usually not too far off into the future. Relatively small ships are also dangerous to whales.
Fascinating. I wonder if 1+1+3 is so common in these samples because it's like a simple identification ping. This pod/clan/group of whales could use it to indicate to others that they belong to the group. Other groups could potentially use different codas for this purpose, and if individuals from different groups encounter each other, the exchange could be like [I'm a Smith] [I'm a Smith] [I'm a Smith] [I'm an Anderson] [I'm a Smith] [I'm an Anderson .] [...] [I'm an Anderson] That opens up a can of worms, because if different groups can identify each other, do they have dynamics? Are there sperm whale alliances and feuds? Obviously I'm doing a MASSIVE amount of anthropomorphization here, but the fact that we seem to have identified a basic set of symbols that these whales use to communicate is inspiring. Maybe one day we can learn what those symbols can combine to mean.
The conversation continues [Mr. Anderson ,] [I'm an Anderson] [How good to see you] [...] [How good to see you] [I know my rights ,] [...] [I want my phone call] [What good is a phone call ,] [I want my phone call (finger ornament)] [If you are unable to speak ?] [...] [(smug emoji ornament)] [...] [(smug emoji ornament)] [...] [(smug emoji ornament)] [...]
I'm really gonna need a grounder news that checks if ground news itself is factual and accurate in their analyses, because somehow most companies that have sponsored this many youtubers have turned out to actually be kind of scummy, a recent example being betterhelp
Looks like it’s just a data aggregator. They don’t write the news, they just collect and sort the range of news published by news outlets. Like all statistics they are as good as the data they are based on.
That (hypothetical) whale conversation at 10:25 was a real trip for me with earbuds in. Nice work. On a separate note--pun intended--I did NOT expect the tie-in to music at the end, although in retrospect I really should have. I enjoy linguistics as a hobby but I studied music in school, and your comparison here was immensely satisfying to me. If you're ever looking for a related topic to give a phonetician's viewpoint on, I heard somewhere that research had shown that orcas' vocalization have been shown to vary between family groups, and that lone, "clanless" orcas appear to have separate "dialects" from members of families. Perhaps that could be something interesting to explore. Great work as always!
As a kid I instead of speaking under my breath sometimes I would speak through my nose with my tongue at the top of my mouth and lips closed. There's a voiced/unvoiced fricative, plositive, a nasal sound, and I guess an "h". Turns out I was just missing the massive skull to reverberate my phenomes off of!
I think it's important to recognize that humans aren't separate from the rest of the animals on Earth. Every other creature experiences the same world we do, with similar sets of senses, and brains made of the same stuff ours are. Of course it's exciting to learn that corvids are in the stone age, or that sperm whales have a phonetic alphabet! We get to be a part of the world with them!
I would guess the sperm whales' codas would be ways to communicate things that are important to the whales, either individually, or as a group. Things like identity, direction, distance, or current activity. A way to identify groups and let members know what's happening. (I AM NOT AN EXPERT, THIS IS CONJECTURE) For example, one whale may signal the group's identity, while another signals the direction of travel. This could help separated individuals or individuals diving for food to find or stay with the group.
@@skychaserthedragon2046 I'm not sure corvids have achieved true sapience yet, but for various species of whales and dolphins, i think that's very much a possibility. Crows I'd say are kinda 'proto-sapient' I think if given a long enough time, they could evolve similar intelligence to humans, I think personally dolphins and whales have already reached that point, they just have no means of physically showing their intelligence. I mean hell, the Indian government has classified dolphins as people I beleive, which is crazy. Needless to say, if these animals are truly sapient like us, then humans are kinda fucked up.
Also, regarding the whales, the problem is what they reference in their sounds, that is their worldview, as a particular group, as speech is something not inherently obtained but learned within some culture. It may be much easier to try to understand that first without trying to "translate" into something specific for our culture. It is very likely that they partially reference things and not only things, but some situations, events in some places by their acoustic patterns, and then marking those patterns in their language.
Amazing! I've been seeing lots of buzz lately about decoding whale language with AI, but rarely are the details expanded on... And I hadn't realized it until seeing this thumbnail, but you're the perfect person to break it down! Thanks again for another beautifully constructed and deeply fascinating video! 🙏😊
the section where the whales are split up into the different channels was VERY confusing until i realized i had my headphones on the wrong way around. =w=
I can't lose the sense that whale speech isn't words OR music. They navigate using echolocation. Whalesong is PICTURES. Treating it as if it's language or music is getting it entirely wrong.
Those creepy fur-less fire-apes are always scratching black soot on everything. Their caves, dead mammal skins, swamp reeds, even under their own fookin' skin. Turns out that is how they have been navigating up there on the air-water, with all that featureless wave noise. You see, they scratch this soot on things they call CHARTS and that's how the get around to pester us. So it must all be just maps.....
I think the answer is probably between these two opinions. They definitely use it for navigation, but I'm pretty sure that it also has some level of communicative/identificational purposes, but I don't think it's close to, or as complex as an actual language.
Let me, as a biologist, make a correction to the very beginning of the video: the generic name should be capitalized, and the whole binomial should be in italics.
The difference in capitalised or not then conveys meaning about which concept is being applied when the two parts of a binomial are being used in isolation of each other, so a genus name is understood as being a genus because it is capitalised, etc. Else the italicisation of both (when used together or apart) helps clarify that the words are exceptional to the main text language, therefore of some other significance usually implying some foreign language basis such as Latin or latinised Greek (which can be translated, often to describe some key aspect about the taxon). It’s almost as if the specificity of such rules about standard usage of these aspects of usage also conveys other meaning beyond the actual words 😂
This is really interesting! Also amazed I was able to catch this 21 seconds after it was posted... that almost never happens to me. I am really fascinated by the idea of non-human communication, and I hope to see more advances in this area of research.
Breaking news: For the first time, researchers have actually managed to translate a whale conversation. It says: . , , , "I'm never gonna give you up..."
I'm not sure that there is such a definite cut between music and language, and I have no doubt the researchers in the article would not consider there to be any significant difference in terms of their investigations. They could have presented their findings in terms of musical notation, and it would not changed the findings, though the musical notation would have been cumbersome. One of the elements in simple communication between any animal is a form of handshaking, that is confirmation of who you are, that you are still there, whether you are friendly or unfriendly, and how much of a similar mind you have. A lot of human conversation is for just this reason - called idle chatter. And much music feeds into this by filling the need of a virtual someone trying to communicate at this level, and then by the listener singing along, responding. From the findings in the paper this seems to be what most of the communication is about - constant reassurance about who they dealing with and what mind set they are in.
I suspect it's really important to keep in mind that whales most likely perceive sounds very different to us, since they use sound for echo location. Just as a thought experiment: If sperm whales perceived the echos of their clicks in a "visual" way, it's imaginable that they "see" the other whales clicks (especially if they are semi synchronized).
Yes, for instance if a series is uttered, and the reply click sequence is time and volume shifted subtly it could represent a 3D object's reflection. It could also be an analogue to the Chinese language family, but instead of pictograms being concept fixed, but phonetically different and tonally expressed, the clicks would be sonograms concept fixed, but temporally expressed and tonally dialectic. Or some such.
When the guy starts generating the conversation it all started to fit together in my head this is crazyyy!!! We're making crazy progress discovering this. When I was growing up they always said humans are the only ones with language, and things change so fast!
Thank you for sharing a professor’s knowledge, a poet’s soul, and a philosopher’s insight. Thank you for demonstrating also in a way how science best works. When we ask better questions. -jom
@@DrGeoffLindseyas a regular viewer, i must say i enjoyed it more than your typical content. apply your expertise to tangential topics as much as you can, it's always interesting
I wonder if the frequency of the codas have a zipfian distribution like words do in languages, where the frequency of the nth most common word is proportional to 1/n, i.e. the 2nd most common word occurs half as often as the most common word, the 3rd most common 1/3 as often, etc.
I've plotted their data in Excel and found the best fitting power law relationship to be y = 5043.3x^-1.608 where y is the frequency and x is the rank of each coda type. The R^2 value is 0.939, which I **think** is high enough to say the distribution is Zipfian. However, I'm not an expert and could VERY easily be interpreting this wrong. Also, I'm not sure why the data they've shared contains 35 coda types even though the paper says there are 21 known coda types from the Eastern Caribbean 1 clan, and they show 18 coda types in their charts. EDIT: It's worth noting that many things have a Zipfian distribution, so if this distribution does count as Zipfian, that is consistent with, but not proof of, it being language.
I've plotted their data in Excel and found the best fitting power law relationship to be y = 5043.3x^-1.608 where y is the frequency and x is the rank of each coda type. The R^2 value is 0.939, which I **think** is high enough to say the distribution is Zipfian. However, I'm not an expert and could VERY easily be interpreting this wrong. Also, I'm not sure why the data they've shared contains 35 coda types even though the paper says there are 21 known coda types from the Eastern Caribbean 1 clan, and they show 18 coda types in their charts. EDIT: It's worth noting that many things have a Zipfian distribution, so if this distribution does count as Zipfian, that is consistent with, but not proof of, it being language.
swedishs alredy did this. 99% of the whales just ignored the researchers but a young adult female not only said hello back to them but stay very friendly toward the crew members
I'm fascinated by the way both humans and sperm whales appear to like the same pattern: 1+1+3, or as I think of it, 1-1-123. The football pattern is identical; except humans complete the circle by clapping their hands in a 1-1- 123- 1234 - 1-1 pattern (which properly I suppose would be 1+1+3+4+1+1).
That was an excellent presentation of not only the results and interpretation in the article, but a fascinating invitation to consider alternative interpretations, such as music. Great video, Dr. Lindsey
1 3 1 2 ? Though I guess the length between the 2 is longer than the two pauses between the 3, and the gap between the 3 and the following 1 is shorter than the gap between that 2 and the 2?
So, pheromones are language? They are transmitted from organism to organism and carry data about the source. Language, from what I understand, is a system of signals arranged in a specific way as to transmit abstract information from agent to agent if that makes sense. Not a linguist, but I want to get across that there is a nuance to the way the concpet differs from simple communication.
11:41 the way the whales communicate in parallel and sort of mirror each other. reminds me of how modems "handshake". combine that with estimated 8 bits per coda... hmm Dial Up Whale. it would be very funny if it turned out nature beat us to the punch on modem synchronization stuff
Fantastic idea! Don’t know if there is any research about that, but I can easily believe that first music emerged earlier than language. As a way to share images produced by emotions
The idea of Whales actually going around singing football chants amuses me greatly "THERE'S ONLY ONE POD OF MALTA! ONE POD OF MALTA!" "WISE WHALE SAY, ONLY FISH RUSH IN. BUT I CAN'T HELP, FALLING IN LOVE WITH YOU" "DUN DUN, DUN DUN DUN, DUN DUN DUN DUN, SPERM WHALES!"
That was an outstanding breakdown of the recent research in a way which was clear but not dumbed down. Thank you so much. It's an enormously interesting topic.
This reminds me of my childhood on a light house station(I'm 58 now), and my parents talking about fishermen's radio telephone chat style which had very many spacers, "Oh yeah", "well" "right" etc. Much discussion about local weather. Past that, I've forgotten over the decades since! Compare an aspergers person's tight conversation style with high content vs chat at a pub with lots of social group bonding speech. Look in whales for environmental discussion, tribal group reinforcement mimicry, altruistic emotive discussion and self attention seeking behaviors. Many of these can be seen by behaviour and niche within the tribe. Our human teenagers have a mumble-language with their parents. Expect for understanding to begin in the womb during long gestation. Memorisation of patterns. This will build a sense of rythm, that alternative to tone that the researchers show. We instinctually baby-talk to our young, much as we instinctively tickle and laugh response to tickling to learn protection of vulnerable regions, In whales there will be evolved baby(calf) talking behaviors. More obvious by context, safe space, parent talking to calf. We can expect a whale calf to have a highly restricted repertoir. That which it has learnt during gestation, that which it copies and that which is added with real-world learning. Look at a young calf's first days. Expect the mother to be discussing early concepts, rising for air. Discussing surface wave conditions. Discussing hunger, feeding, nursing. Expecting to understand the grownups talking to each other is probably well beyond most of us at the moment but start with the easy things! This will build a sense of rythm, that alternative to tone that the researchers show.
If Whales do have language I would think they would have a name for every member of their pod. A whale, on hearing its name would reply. hence giving its position. That would be the most basic thing of all.
I don’t know who said it first, but here is an old quote: do animals speak? Yes, they do, but what they have to say isn’t all that interesting… I would love to converse with whales and dolphins about the philosophical implications of living a weightless life (as they do in the ocean)
I'm curious to see whether their language is simpler than ours, or more complicated, or so incredibly different that there's no way to compare them directly. I wonder if there are concepts that can easily be expressed by cetaceans which humans aren't able to articulate, or even that we aren't capable of comprehending?
I recently listened to the Big Picture Science podcast Animal Alphabets (June 29, 2024) that touched on this from a marine biology and neuroscience point of view, so it's great to hear a linguist's point of view on the topic.
Whales are fascinating creatures, and the ocean is a whole new world. Thank you for creating a video on this topic. You've earned a subscriber all the way from India
For sure. There's a lot of music I enjoy that is in a genre I normally hate purely because I've built a positive association with the songs that make me feel different emotions than they did before.
I chuckled at "alphabet" when I first saw this story. I guess the term "phoneme inventory" is not widely known by news outlets. What do they call the end of thier click bursts -- coda codas?
I had a quick look at research on sperm whale vocalizations. Aparantly, there are two types. Usual clicks are produced in a 10 Hz-30 kHz frequency band, and creak clicks produced at higher frequencies and believed to be used for echo-location. Automated detection of sperm whale clicks has been achieved in the frequency range 0-500 Hz. I presume this research refers to usual clicks, but it would be interesting to research whether creak clicks are also used for communication.
@@myname-sj7hs doesn't seem to have a proper name - it's known as "the phonetic alphabet in the Talon Community repository" but if you look for "whalequench" and Emily Shea you'll find it because it's for individuals to use their highly personalised voice-typing setups it's not standardised but rather it's a starting point. like, if you make software that's about whales you'd like "whale" to be the word "whale" not the W key - so you could configure a different word for that 😄
@@esquilax5563 "I cr___ed out all the fats with Esquilax!"? the Nato phonetic alphabet is optimised for communicating with a human over a noisy radio. voicetyping / voice control alphabets have different constraints - they need to be single-syllable words easily understood by a computer and not confused with words you just want transcribed directly
This was an excellent explanation of the topic. I was fascinated by the news reports too but of course, they often get things wrong or don't go into much detail, so I appreciate you taking the time to make this video. Have you looked into other animal vocalizations? I think prairie dogs' are especially interesting.
AWESOME video, would love to see more content on the lifestyles / intelligence / communication between other cetacea species too! especially delphinidae
Thanks Geoff for another fascinating video. As a pianist however, I was a little perturbed by your animated piano playing the opening of Beethoven's 5th. The keyboard was around the wrong way - it needs to be flipped so that it's higher keys are playing the higher notes of Beethoven's music.
For transmission of data, frequency (or any temporal) modulation is more robust than amplitude modulation, and they make clicks rather than various "timbres".. it make sense they use tempo modulation.. maybe also because if there's a lot of echoes in their environnement, the modulation must be slower than the echoes so it can't be confused with it
I think it's more likely they are changing their pattern of clicks to "fine tune" their sonar to specific tasks. Finding other whales, locating prey, navigating along the seafloor , checking the distance to the surface when they need air. The reason for the different standard tempos and the synching up of clicks is to avoid "blinding each other".
that ornament in the middle of the whale conversation between blue and orange looked to me like the orange whale saying "just shut up and listen for a second! you're not getting the tempo right" :p
I find it interesting that TH-cam added a feature between the recording, and the release of the video that allows you to have 35 discrete tempos in a video, instead of the 8 previously
that feature has been around for a while, he just missed the 'custom' button in the top right of the speed control window that you can see in the video.
Amazing Video. So excited when I heard about this research from a lab mate. I think you do a great job being being hyper while staying measured. Amazing stuff
Whales composing music. Is far more impressive than knowing they have a language. It suggests that they have culture and ideas. They just evolved in a different way.
Hi, zoologist and marine mammal expert here. The problem is, we're thinking about it all wrong. As we've seen with dolphins, cetacean singing is not linear like see we language. It's three dimensional. A sound wave moving through water exists in a 3D space. Cetaceans can "read" these, if you l could look at a cross section of these sound waves in motion, you'd see there are minute differences in each depending on the sound being made. This is what constitutes the language of whales. Humans need to stop trying to brute force other species' languages into simple forms we understand, like letters or "alphabets". That's just not how it works. We need to change our thinking to understand them, not try to make them fit our rigid language systems.
Music is variously described. I would say that music is added to vocabulary; deepening meaning and eliciting emotional response; when correctly done. In this context it "fattens" the language. As pure instrumental, however, music is hypnotic, evocative, though any inferred thought connection between writer/performer and the listener is purely incidental. As I put it: "music is communication without connection. The artist puts a bit of his or her soul into a composition; a listener takes of it what he or she will. This may or may not be what the writer meant or intended. Thus, music is two communications (the writer/performer and the auditor), but without connection."
Fun fact, The original version of Morse Code (Sometimes called American Morse Code), similar to these Whale Clicks, actually differentiated between different lengths of silence between dots, So for example the letter 'c' would be '.. .', as opposed to '...' which is 's', or '.. .', with a longer gap, which would be 'ie'.
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you gota remember language isnt biological and we wiped out all most all the adults so they wouldnt have had much language to pass on even if they had a complex languages before
yes it could also be music
but it could also be a geographicly dispersed species starting to put languages back together 1 interaction at a time
New-born we burble in the rhythm and cadence of our mother-tongue (having heard it in the womb) and this persists as our accent when acquiring language/s. Until our optic nerves develop, our 'music' is our primary bond with the family beyond our touch. Whale codas may be more like nursery rhymes, with phatic, rather than emphatic, meaning.
Hi, zoologist and marine mammal expert here. The problem is, we're thinking about it all wrong. As we've seen with dolphins, cetacean singing is not linear like see we language. It's three dimensional.
A sound wave moving through water exists in a 3D space. Cetaceans can "read" these, if you l could look at a cross section of these sound waves in motion, you'd see there are minute differences in each depending on the sound being made. This is what constitutes the language of whales.
Humans need to stop trying to brute force other species' languages into simple forms we understand, like letters or "alphabets". That's just not how it works. We need to change our thinking to understand them, not try to make them fit our rigid language systems.
@@hamasmillitant1 Unfortunately true. Whales have dialects, just like we do. Their songs have changed drastically in the last decade, not just because of the reasons you outlined, but because human caused noise pollution has forced them to sing louder and higher than before, because the lower, longer traveling frequencies get drowned out by the noise. So they're essentially stuck using only half of their "alphabet", for lack of a more appropriate word.
I was at the beach in Maui. I had done my hair because we were going to a fancy lunch. Someone said, "If you go under water you an hear the whales talking." So much for the hairdo. I put my head under and could hear them beeping.My daughtervsaid, "Wonder what they are saying." I said, "They're saying,
, "If you put your head out of the water you can hear the people talking.'"
Whales *are* people.
Madame, you deserve a Nobel Prize, excellent
Thank you for this delightful story :)
That's so cool but also kind of horrifying in a way. The ocean is nuts
@Barnaclebeard this is a possibility
There's also Mahler's quote: "If a composer could say what he wanted to say in words, he wouldn't bother trying to say it in Music."
Only 12 tones in most music. You can’t do everything with that sadly.
Unless you break the western rules and use xenharmonics
@@locrianphantom3547 but since tempo and instrument and accent all affect the sound, and chords can be made, you don't have a reachable limit to music. and don't forget that voice and most string instruments are continuous in pitch, and not discrete like pianos or xylophones, so it's easy to not be confined under 12 tet.
@@locrianphantom3547 Though there are only 12 notes (ignoring octaves), it's a puzzle of combinatorics.
@@RowanAckerman Same with words. Besides, what I’m trying to say is that some motifs are impossible to capture in 12 tet. For example, you can listen to Gleam (22 tet) by Sevish. If you listen to his 12 tet remake, it doesn’t carry the same meaning, and no other combination in 12 tet carries that exact same meaning.
@@locrianphantom3547you can do everything and anything with 12 tones.
WHALE:”You had me at . . . …”
You had me at hello = ". . . ."
Meanwhile Whales:
"Do humans have a language or is that a far fetched idea"
"Abstract: We all know that intelligence and fin size are correlated, can we entertain the idea of a fin-less intelligence?"
Counterpoint:
*OLD Whale* : My grandfather was attacked by a human on a small floaty thing with a pointy thing that was as long as a small shark. Then my mother was nearly killed by humans on large and loud floaty thing who attacked her with a weirder pointy thing as long as a medium sized shark from far far far away. Now humans stopped attacking us but the big weird floaty things got bigger and bigger and are always so loud. And sometimes they follow our pot but without attacking us...weird.
If we belive that whales are smart then whals would tell and speak about Legends and history. The old Whales would tell the newer generations that humans changed in a whales lifetime wich would proof that humans are changing but making things. Of course how do you teach somebody what a boat is or what craftmanship is to somebody that has neither arms nor the need for a boat?
If whales are smart enough to communicate complex ideas, they would probably be smart enough to understand that we can also communicate based on observing our complex social behavior
I just LOVE the name of Project CETI, a pun between the Latin word for "whale" and SETI ("search for extra-terrestrial intelligence").
I thought of SETI too. I find it ironic that astronomers and others talk of a 'great silence ' when we can't even understand a fellow mammal with so much of the same DNA. Aliens will be, alien.
@acmelka tbf the ways whales communicate are extremely alien, because they don't live on land.
@@toyotawitha20mm35 Bees live on land. What's their excuse?
@@woodfur00 bees aren't intelligent, thinking, sapient beings.
@@woodfur00 whales are intelligent beings, bees are insects.
What we perceive as pitch and timbre is just pulses when slowed down. If they perceive their own clicks more like tone and color than discrete clicks, then those two whales could've been harmonizing.
They echolocate, so there is some speculation that the clicks are actually percieved as 3 dimensional objects by the whales. It's possible that some additional information is contained in other aspects of the click and how the sound is projected through the water.
@@BenTajer89 this!
The idea of hearing a noise & using that sound to help me perceive a 3D object is wild. @@BenTajer89
Clicks are distinct sounds while a tone, when slowed down, is a connected set of waves. Clicks would have their own frequency both in tone and in how often the click happens. It's possible to speed up a clicking to sound like a tone, but that's just our own brains' limitations on being able to tell rapid but distinct sounds apart. Structurally they're still different
Can you explain what you mean by "connected set of waves"? Can't a repetitive sequence of click - silence - click - silence ... still be seen as one large overall waveform? I don't see why this fails to be "connected".
I read some research several years ago about dolphins seemingly using names for each other, using and repeating specific whistles when meeting particular individuals they knew, and sometimes announcing themselves by whistling their own "name," which tells us something about these animals' sense of identity and self as well as their communicative abilities.
and, they use urine marking, as well.
Dolphins are like sea crows. Terribly smart and terribly evil
@@usernametaken017 But crows don't grape as far as I know.
Actually, I'd say all that tells us is that a lot of humans have a lot of trouble looking at non-human behaviour without anthropomorphizing it.
By saying the dolphins are using names for each other, you are assuming first that they have a sense of self and identity, and second that they are capable of abstracting that sense of self and identity into sounds. That is the basic assumption you have to make in order to claim they are using "names", because of what "names" are.
There is a huge leap between the observed behaviour of "making certain sounds around particular individuals" and "dolphins use sounds to represent abstract concepts of identity". If you saw a group of humans speaking a foreign language doing this, you could make reasonable inferences about the meaning of those sounds, but *dolphins aren't humans*.
@@JohnnyFedora1 You're really dismissing a published and and peer-reviewed piece of research without even having read it, with no knowledge of the methodology or reasoning, and based purely on your instant reaction to a couple of sentences in the TH-cam comment section?
I have a few ideas on what that might tell us too.
I think if we are going to talk to whales we aught to start drafting a very sincere and complete apology
even if the sperm whale phonetic system turns out to be less like words and language and more like music I wonder about the possibility of using it on ships as signifiers to whales. We could take maybe an couple uncommon possible combination of clicks, for large cargo vessels, medium sized vessels, and small vessels. ans start using those to broadcast as the ship sails. and with that, even if those clicks mean nothing to whales in reality, we signify our otherness and with experience give them information about what is approaching. in essence telling them whether they need to avoid something like a large container ship which can cause a dangerous collision, or to not be bothered by a small vessel approaching.
Is ships-whales collision an actual issue?
@@pansepot1490 I am only tangentially aware of it, but quick search has led me to the international whaling commission page on the subject. To quote that webpage "It is thought that mortality due to ship strikes may make the difference between extinction and survival for [the north Atlantic right whale]" and "Most reports of collisions between whales and vessels involve large whales, but all species can be affected. "
@@pansepot1490yeah, it's actually pretty huge. Ship strikes are one of the most common causes of premature death for many whale species and could drive several large whale species to extinction if they keep up at current rates
They'd probably be drawn to it, not scared. The best way for whales (I am more knowledgeable about Killer Whales tbf) are to learn to avoid the ships as a foreign thing. When whales become used to ships and even feel they are harmless, death by propeller is usually not too far off into the future. Relatively small ships are also dangerous to whales.
@@TRUTHANDCONSEQUENCESWILLNEVER whales understand concepts like death and can most likely associate them with language
Fascinating. I wonder if 1+1+3 is so common in these samples because it's like a simple identification ping. This pod/clan/group of whales could use it to indicate to others that they belong to the group. Other groups could potentially use different codas for this purpose, and if individuals from different groups encounter each other, the exchange could be like
[I'm a Smith]
[I'm a Smith]
[I'm a Smith] [I'm an Anderson]
[I'm a Smith] [I'm an Anderson .]
[...] [I'm an Anderson]
That opens up a can of worms, because if different groups can identify each other, do they have dynamics? Are there sperm whale alliances and feuds?
Obviously I'm doing a MASSIVE amount of anthropomorphization here, but the fact that we seem to have identified a basic set of symbols that these whales use to communicate is inspiring. Maybe one day we can learn what those symbols can combine to mean.
Dr. Lindsay repeatedly mentioned this exact theory in the video.
@@Vinemaple ah. sorry
The conversation continues
[Mr. Anderson ,] [I'm an Anderson]
[How good to see you] [...]
[How good to see you] [I know my rights ,]
[...] [I want my phone call]
[What good is a phone call ,] [I want my phone call (finger ornament)]
[If you are unable to speak ?] [...]
[(smug emoji ornament)] [...]
[(smug emoji ornament)] [...]
[(smug emoji ornament)] [...]
Crows seem to use a similar call. I'll hear one fly through and make the call and then hear the neighborhood reply back.
[Oxford ?]
[Cambridge]
[Goodbye]
[Goodbye]
I can’t be the only one who found the whales saying “hello” as utterly terrifying, was a bad time to be wearing headphones hahaha
“You can talk?”
It weirded me out so much I had to remove my ear buds 😅
The final "ornamentation" click at the end of the video was a beautiful touch.
I will be the first to admit I went back to find this. If you're reading this comment, you know you did too
I'm really gonna need a grounder news that checks if ground news itself is factual and accurate in their analyses, because somehow most companies that have sponsored this many youtubers have turned out to actually be kind of scummy, a recent example being betterhelp
i mean it's all AI, so it's going to be poor
Looks like it’s just a data aggregator. They don’t write the news, they just collect and sort the range of news published by news outlets. Like all statistics they are as good as the data they are based on.
Without exception every product or service advertised through TH-cam speaking sponsorships is trash
Then a groundest news that verifies all of them?
Just learn media littaracy and fact checking@@lenarianmelon4634
That (hypothetical) whale conversation at 10:25 was a real trip for me with earbuds in. Nice work.
On a separate note--pun intended--I did NOT expect the tie-in to music at the end, although in retrospect I really should have. I enjoy linguistics as a hobby but I studied music in school, and your comparison here was immensely satisfying to me.
If you're ever looking for a related topic to give a phonetician's viewpoint on, I heard somewhere that research had shown that orcas' vocalization have been shown to vary between family groups, and that lone, "clanless" orcas appear to have separate "dialects" from members of families. Perhaps that could be something interesting to explore.
Great work as always!
I only had one in and it was a little underwhelming until it *clicked*
This was fascinating, and I'm really surprised to hear the whole idea for the video was suggested by the sponsor, that's some good marketing.
As a kid I instead of speaking under my breath sometimes I would speak through my nose with my tongue at the top of my mouth and lips closed. There's a voiced/unvoiced fricative, plositive, a nasal sound, and I guess an "h". Turns out I was just missing the massive skull to reverberate my phenomes off of!
theme song? nonono that is a whale gang sign
I mean.. if Bloods is a good gang name, why not "Sperms" 🤔
Breach to the portside, Moby!
I think it's important to recognize that humans aren't separate from the rest of the animals on Earth. Every other creature experiences the same world we do, with similar sets of senses, and brains made of the same stuff ours are. Of course it's exciting to learn that corvids are in the stone age, or that sperm whales have a phonetic alphabet! We get to be a part of the world with them!
I would guess the sperm whales' codas would be ways to communicate things that are important to the whales, either individually, or as a group. Things like identity, direction, distance, or current activity. A way to identify groups and let members know what's happening. (I AM NOT AN EXPERT, THIS IS CONJECTURE)
For example, one whale may signal the group's identity, while another signals the direction of travel. This could help separated individuals or individuals diving for food to find or stay with the group.
@@skychaserthedragon2046 I'm not sure corvids have achieved true sapience yet, but for various species of whales and dolphins, i think that's very much a possibility. Crows I'd say are kinda 'proto-sapient' I think if given a long enough time, they could evolve similar intelligence to humans, I think personally dolphins and whales have already reached that point, they just have no means of physically showing their intelligence. I mean hell, the Indian government has classified dolphins as people I beleive, which is crazy. Needless to say, if these animals are truly sapient like us, then humans are kinda fucked up.
So true.
Sperm whale valley girl vocal frying at 100+ decibles was not the laugh I expected to have today.
Also, regarding the whales, the problem is what they reference in their sounds, that is their worldview, as a particular group, as speech is something not inherently obtained but learned within some culture. It may be much easier to try to understand that first without trying to "translate" into something specific for our culture. It is very likely that they partially reference things and not only things, but some situations, events in some places by their acoustic patterns, and then marking those patterns in their language.
Amazing!
I've been seeing lots of buzz lately about decoding whale language with AI, but rarely are the details expanded on... And I hadn't realized it until seeing this thumbnail, but you're the perfect person to break it down! Thanks again for another beautifully constructed and deeply fascinating video! 🙏😊
I'm with the sperm whale pod clicking to Flight of the Valkyries as we dive in on some squid.
Ok, you nailed the coda on that one. :)
The thought that whales speak is exciting, but the thought they enjoy music is weep-inducing.
the section where the whales are split up into the different channels was VERY confusing until i realized i had my headphones on the wrong way around. =w=
The fact we are doing this is honestly insane, I never thought understanding welsh would be a possibility
I can't lose the sense that whale speech isn't words OR music. They navigate using echolocation. Whalesong is PICTURES. Treating it as if it's language or music is getting it entirely wrong.
Those creepy fur-less fire-apes are always scratching black soot on everything.
Their caves, dead mammal skins, swamp reeds, even under their own fookin' skin.
Turns out that is how they have been navigating up there on the air-water, with all that featureless wave noise.
You see, they scratch this soot on things they call CHARTS and that's how the get around to pester us.
So it must all be just maps.....
I think the answer is probably between these two opinions. They definitely use it for navigation, but I'm pretty sure that it also has some level of communicative/identificational purposes, but I don't think it's close to, or as complex as an actual language.
Let me, as a biologist, make a correction to the very beginning of the video: the generic name should be capitalized, and the whole binomial should be in italics.
The difference in capitalised or not then conveys meaning about which concept is being applied when the two parts of a binomial are being used in isolation of each other, so a genus name is understood as being a genus because it is capitalised, etc. Else the italicisation of both (when used together or apart) helps clarify that the words are exceptional to the main text language, therefore of some other significance usually implying some foreign language basis such as Latin or latinised Greek (which can be translated, often to describe some key aspect about the taxon). It’s almost as if the specificity of such rules about standard usage of these aspects of usage also conveys other meaning beyond the actual words 😂
I, as an a$$hole on the internet, will tell you that 'italics' should only be written in its own font.
☝🏻🤓
This is the only thing I remember from high-school
This is really interesting! Also amazed I was able to catch this 21 seconds after it was posted... that almost never happens to me.
I am really fascinated by the idea of non-human communication, and I hope to see more advances in this area of research.
I feel lucky to have caught it at 21 minutes! 😄
Those times relate to when TH-cam decided to notify your account of the video. It notifies different people at different times.
Breaking news: For the first time, researchers have actually managed to translate a whale conversation. It says:
.
,
,
,
"I'm never gonna give you up..."
I'm not sure that there is such a definite cut between music and language, and I have no doubt the researchers in the article would not consider there to be any significant difference in terms of their investigations. They could have presented their findings in terms of musical notation, and it would not changed the findings, though the musical notation would have been cumbersome. One of the elements in simple communication between any animal is a form of handshaking, that is confirmation of who you are, that you are still there, whether you are friendly or unfriendly, and how much of a similar mind you have. A lot of human conversation is for just this reason - called idle chatter. And much music feeds into this by filling the need of a virtual someone trying to communicate at this level, and then by the listener singing along, responding. From the findings in the paper this seems to be what most of the communication is about - constant reassurance about who they dealing with and what mind set they are in.
I suspect it's really important to keep in mind that whales most likely perceive sounds very different to us, since they use sound for echo location.
Just as a thought experiment:
If sperm whales perceived the echos of their clicks in a "visual" way, it's imaginable that they "see" the other whales clicks (especially if they are semi synchronized).
Yes, for instance if a series is uttered, and the reply click sequence is time and volume shifted subtly it could represent a 3D object's reflection.
It could also be an analogue to the Chinese language family, but instead of pictograms being concept fixed, but phonetically different and tonally expressed, the clicks would be sonograms concept fixed, but temporally expressed and tonally dialectic. Or some such.
@@flamencoprof that's how would have phrased it, if my English was better 😅
@@dmdjt Good thing we have English script in common. 🙂
@@flamencoprof oh yes!
I’m a linguist and I’ve been WAITING to hear another professional talk on this, however tangential your expertise is.
When the guy starts generating the conversation it all started to fit together in my head this is crazyyy!!! We're making crazy progress discovering this. When I was growing up they always said humans are the only ones with language, and things change so fast!
Thank you for sharing a professor’s knowledge, a poet’s soul, and a philosopher’s insight. Thank you for demonstrating also in a way how science best works. When we ask better questions. -jom
12:57 But the intonation is still a faster or slower passage of air through the vocal chord gaps. Theirs is just a lot slower than our vocal flapping.
Yeah, I was thinking that! Melody/Harmony is just reeeeally fast Rhythm!
(Adam Neely has a great video on this!)
While this is incredibly fascinating, I can't help but comment about your amazing editing. So funny.
Beautiful and informative video! I also love rhe way you ended it with a lovely quote.
I've really enjoyed many of your past videos, this one is your finest to date. Thanks!
Thank you! I think it'll be too off-topic for many of my followers.
@DrGeoffLindsey i think it's just enough off-topic to mix things up but close enough to your thing so that you can provide valuable insite.
@@DrGeoffLindseyas a regular viewer, i must say i enjoyed it more than your typical content. apply your expertise to tangential topics as much as you can, it's always interesting
I wonder if the frequency of the codas have a zipfian distribution like words do in languages, where the frequency of the nth most common word is proportional to 1/n, i.e. the 2nd most common word occurs half as often as the most common word, the 3rd most common 1/3 as often, etc.
I've plotted their data in Excel and found the best fitting power law relationship to be y = 5043.3x^-1.608 where y is the frequency and x is the rank of each coda type. The R^2 value is 0.939, which I **think** is high enough to say the distribution is Zipfian.
However, I'm not an expert and could VERY easily be interpreting this wrong. Also, I'm not sure why the data they've shared contains 35 coda types even though the paper says there are 21 known coda types from the Eastern Caribbean 1 clan, and they show 18 coda types in their charts.
EDIT: It's worth noting that many things have a Zipfian distribution, so if this distribution does count as Zipfian, that is consistent with, but not proof of, it being language.
Humpbacks are definitely zipfian so I wouldn't doubt spermwhales are
I hope we find discernible meaning behind the pops. Also, I wonder how closely they follow Zipf's law relative to human speech.
I've plotted their data in Excel and found the best fitting power law relationship to be y = 5043.3x^-1.608 where y is the frequency and x is the rank of each coda type. The R^2 value is 0.939, which I **think** is high enough to say the distribution is Zipfian.
However, I'm not an expert and could VERY easily be interpreting this wrong. Also, I'm not sure why the data they've shared contains 35 coda types even though the paper says there are 21 known coda types from the Eastern Caribbean 1 clan, and they show 18 coda types in their charts.
EDIT: It's worth noting that many things have a Zipfian distribution, so if this distribution does count as Zipfian, that is consistent with, but not proof of, it being language.
@@SockTatersbro just casually uses Excel to answer people in comments
i wonder if we could try clicking and getting whales to respond
swedishs alredy did this. 99% of the whales just ignored the researchers but a young adult female not only said hello back to them but stay very friendly toward the crew members
@@estrelaalva looks like we’re getting somewhere!
I'm fascinated by the way both humans and sperm whales appear to like the same pattern: 1+1+3, or as I think of it, 1-1-123. The football pattern is identical; except humans complete the circle by clapping their hands in a 1-1- 123- 1234 - 1-1 pattern (which properly I suppose would be 1+1+3+4+1+1).
That was an excellent presentation of not only the results and interpretation in the article, but a fascinating invitation to consider alternative interpretations, such as music. Great video, Dr. Lindsey
I’m disappointed they don’t seem to have the ‘shave and a haircut’ sequence.
if you get a speaker and play it into whale territory will they learn it and sing it too
1 3 1 2 ? Though I guess the length between the 2 is longer than the two pauses between the 3, and the gap between the 3 and the following 1 is shorter than the gap between that 2 and the 2?
@@miniepicness but it might already mean something, possibly something horrible
Aww, they get in the rhythmic groove together.
You made big point at the start about it not being a language , but if it communicated information then that's exactly what it is.
So, pheromones are language? They are transmitted from organism to organism and carry data about the source.
Language, from what I understand, is a system of signals arranged in a specific way as to transmit abstract information from agent to agent if that makes sense.
Not a linguist, but I want to get across that there is a nuance to the way the concpet differs from simple communication.
11:41 the way the whales communicate in parallel and sort of mirror each other. reminds me of how modems "handshake". combine that with estimated 8 bits per coda... hmm
Dial Up Whale. it would be very funny if it turned out nature beat us to the punch on modem synchronization stuff
Fantastic idea! Don’t know if there is any research about that, but I can easily believe that first music emerged earlier than language. As a way to share images produced by emotions
What an ending, Doc. That's how you get me to stay through the Patreon credits.
The idea of Whales actually going around singing football chants amuses me greatly
"THERE'S ONLY ONE POD OF MALTA! ONE POD OF MALTA!"
"WISE WHALE SAY, ONLY FISH RUSH IN. BUT I CAN'T HELP, FALLING IN LOVE WITH YOU"
"DUN DUN, DUN DUN DUN, DUN DUN DUN DUN, SPERM WHALES!"
That was a well produced, educational, and moving video. Thank you! I thought it sounded rather like some bird call patterns.
That was an outstanding breakdown of the recent research in a way which was clear but not dumbed down. Thank you so much. It's an enormously interesting topic.
Using the 2-channel stereo for the whale communication example was a pleasant surprise for me and my headphones
This reminds me of my childhood on a light house station(I'm 58 now), and my parents talking about fishermen's radio telephone chat style which had very many spacers, "Oh yeah", "well" "right" etc. Much discussion about local weather. Past that, I've forgotten over the decades since!
Compare an aspergers person's tight conversation style with high content vs chat at a pub with lots of social group bonding speech. Look in whales for environmental discussion, tribal group reinforcement mimicry, altruistic emotive discussion and self attention seeking behaviors. Many of these can be seen by behaviour and niche within the tribe. Our human teenagers have a mumble-language with their parents. Expect for understanding to begin in the womb during long gestation. Memorisation of patterns. This will build a sense of rythm, that alternative to tone that the researchers show.
We instinctually baby-talk to our young, much as we instinctively tickle and laugh response to tickling to learn protection of vulnerable regions, In whales there will be evolved baby(calf) talking behaviors. More obvious by context, safe space, parent talking to calf. We can expect a whale calf to have a highly restricted repertoir. That which it has learnt during gestation, that which it copies and that which is added with real-world learning. Look at a young calf's first days. Expect the mother to be discussing early concepts, rising for air. Discussing surface wave conditions. Discussing hunger, feeding, nursing. Expecting to understand the grownups talking to each other is probably well beyond most of us at the moment but start with the easy things!
This will build a sense of rythm, that alternative to tone that the researchers show.
If Whales do have language I would think they would have a name for every member of their pod. A whale, on hearing its name would reply. hence giving its position. That would be the most basic thing of all.
I am always thrilled to see a new video from you Doctor! Thank you!
“Cannnnnn youuuuuuuu hellllllllllp meeeeeeeee?”
I wonder how different it is from their written language.
I don’t know who said it first, but here is an old quote: do animals speak? Yes, they do, but what they have to say isn’t all that interesting…
I would love to converse with whales and dolphins about the philosophical implications of living a weightless life (as they do in the ocean)
I'm curious to see whether their language is simpler than ours, or more complicated, or so incredibly different that there's no way to compare them directly.
I wonder if there are concepts that can easily be expressed by cetaceans which humans aren't able to articulate, or even that we aren't capable of comprehending?
I think we'd need to spend the first year apologising for our greed, cruelty and ignorance, unfortunately.
True. And humans are the most boring of all.
1-1-3 = "WHAT DOING!?" and you can't convince me otherwise. 🤣
My nephew used to say "WHAT DOING?" when he was 2. 🥰
Why “what doing?”
Never would have thought so, but you're the exact person I'd want to give me updates on the CETI program.
Someone play “Land Down Under” for these whales. It starts with their greeting.
The other paper from CETI points out that they also have a "vowel" which we can "reproduce" by making palatal click and varying lip rounding.
I tried it - interesting, makes me think of Chinese tones crossed with African click languages
I'm really sad we can't even come close to replicating most of their language with our own bodies
We cant replicate ANY of their language underwater physically. @@catpoke9557
It is really informative, interesting and so beautiful. Thank you so much for uploading!
I recently listened to the Big Picture Science podcast Animal Alphabets (June 29, 2024) that touched on this from a marine biology and neuroscience point of view, so it's great to hear a linguist's point of view on the topic.
Whales are fascinating creatures, and the ocean is a whole new world. Thank you for creating a video on this topic. You've earned a subscriber all the way from India
Time to summon the producer of the Grudge to decipher whale vocal fry... fabulous and fun. Thank you for breaking the paper's concepts down for us!
A single piece of music definitely does not evoke the same emotions in everyone. It is not definite at all.
For sure. There's a lot of music I enjoy that is in a genre I normally hate purely because I've built a positive association with the songs that make me feel different emotions than they did before.
I chuckled at "alphabet" when I first saw this story. I guess the term "phoneme inventory" is not widely known by news outlets.
What do they call the end of thier click bursts -- coda codas?
I guess they write on the seabed using their tails?
Punctuation!
I had a quick look at research on sperm whale vocalizations. Aparantly, there are two types. Usual clicks are produced in a 10 Hz-30 kHz frequency band, and creak clicks produced at higher frequencies and believed to be used for echo-location. Automated detection of sperm whale clicks has been achieved in the frequency range 0-500 Hz. I presume this research refers to usual clicks, but it would be interesting to research whether creak clicks are also used for communication.
there's a phonetic alphabet developed by software engineers with severe RSI or otherwise unable to use a keyboard. W is pronounced "whale"
What's it called?
@@myname-sj7hs doesn't seem to have a proper name - it's known as "the phonetic alphabet in the Talon Community repository" but if you look for "whalequench" and Emily Shea you'll find it
because it's for individuals to use their highly personalised voice-typing setups it's not standardised but rather it's a starting point. like, if you make software that's about whales you'd like "whale" to be the word "whale" not the W key - so you could configure a different word for that 😄
What's wrong with the traditional "alpha, bravo, Charlie", etc?
@@myname-sj7hs my reply got eaten. it doesn't have an official name. unofficially "whalequench" I think (after the :wq keypress to exit Vim)
@@esquilax5563 "I cr___ed out all the fats with Esquilax!"? the Nato phonetic alphabet is optimised for communicating with a human over a noisy radio. voicetyping / voice control alphabets have different constraints - they need to be single-syllable words easily understood by a computer and not confused with words you just want transcribed directly
This was an excellent explanation of the topic. I was fascinated by the news reports too but of course, they often get things wrong or don't go into much detail, so I appreciate you taking the time to make this video. Have you looked into other animal vocalizations? I think prairie dogs' are especially interesting.
This video was amazing, dude what the heck. A whole new perspective has opened to me. We arent alone in the universe
Dr. Lindsey, the talking whale animation was a little creepy. I imagine a stalker whale would sound just like that "whats up." 😮
We have anthropology for chimps and now phonology for whales. I'm sure there's more
And more to come.
Thank you! Beautiful music and quote at the end.
Very fascinating! Thanks for the video.
AWESOME video, would love to see more content on the lifestyles / intelligence / communication between other cetacea species too! especially delphinidae
What a beautiful conclusion to a beautiful video.
Thanks Geoff for another fascinating video. As a pianist however, I was a little perturbed by your animated piano playing the opening of Beethoven's 5th. The keyboard was around the wrong way - it needs to be flipped so that it's higher keys are playing the higher notes of Beethoven's music.
What a beautiful ending to the video. A treat. Thank you.
I am suprised this doesn't havw more views. I thought this fitted with the conlang audience, and science audience about AI, and stuff
For transmission of data, frequency (or any temporal) modulation is more robust than amplitude modulation, and they make clicks rather than various "timbres".. it make sense they use tempo modulation.. maybe also because if there's a lot of echoes in their environnement, the modulation must be slower than the echoes so it can't be confused with it
I think it's more likely they are changing their pattern of clicks to "fine tune" their sonar to specific tasks.
Finding other whales, locating prey, navigating along the seafloor , checking the distance to the surface when they need air.
The reason for the different standard tempos and the synching up of clicks is to avoid "blinding each other".
that ornament in the middle of the whale conversation between blue and orange looked to me like the orange whale saying "just shut up and listen for a second! you're not getting the tempo right" :p
what if they're just playing the whale equivalent of rock-paper-scissors?
I find it interesting that TH-cam added a feature between the recording, and the release of the video that allows you to have 35 discrete tempos in a video, instead of the 8 previously
that feature has been around for a while, he just missed the 'custom' button in the top right of the speed control window that you can see in the video.
Amazing Video. So excited when I heard about this research from a lab mate. I think you do a great job being being hyper while staying measured. Amazing stuff
AWESOME; been waiting for this to come out for so long!
Whales composing music. Is far more impressive than knowing they have a language. It suggests that they have culture and ideas. They just evolved in a different way.
They are kinda like people..
Hi, zoologist and marine mammal expert here. The problem is, we're thinking about it all wrong. As we've seen with dolphins, cetacean singing is not linear like see we language. It's three dimensional.
A sound wave moving through water exists in a 3D space. Cetaceans can "read" these, if you l could look at a cross section of these sound waves in motion, you'd see there are minute differences in each depending on the sound being made. This is what constitutes the language of whales.
Humans need to stop trying to brute force other species' languages into simple forms we understand, like letters or "alphabets". That's just not how it works. We need to change our thinking to understand them, not try to make them fit our rigid language systems.
Thanks for the explanatory video!🐳
I laughed way too hard at the vocal fry segment 😂 riiiiiiiiiiiggggghhhhhhtttttt
I would call music a language of emotion. Great video, thank you!
Music is variously described. I would say that music is added to vocabulary; deepening meaning and eliciting emotional response; when correctly done. In this context it "fattens" the language. As pure instrumental, however, music is hypnotic, evocative, though any inferred thought connection between writer/performer and the listener is purely incidental.
As I put it: "music is communication without connection. The artist puts a bit of his or her soul into a composition; a listener takes of it what he or she will. This may or may not be what the writer meant or intended. Thus, music is two communications (the writer/performer and the auditor), but without connection."
Brilliant video! And absolutely fascinating.
That H E L L O sequence was quite creepy
Fun fact, The original version of Morse Code (Sometimes called American Morse Code), similar to these Whale Clicks, actually differentiated between different lengths of silence between dots, So for example the letter 'c' would be '.. .', as opposed to '...' which is 's', or '.. .', with a longer gap, which would be 'ie'.
I really hope that we can one day discover how to talk with these things