Making A Math Murderer

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 พ.ย. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 2.2K

  • @blizzardaddict1383
    @blizzardaddict1383 3 ปีที่แล้ว +7354

    I know another joke: An engineer, a physicist and a statiscian go hunting in the woods. They spot a deer and take turns shooting at it, first goes the physicist, he look at the angle, calculates the speed of the bullet and shoots but his shot goes 50 meters to the right. The engineer says he didnt count for the wind and he also makes his measurement and shots but his shot goes 50 meters to the left. Then the statiscian yells hapilly : We did it !

    • @Vsauce2
      @Vsauce2  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1766

      Ok, that's a good one.

    • @nxt6341
      @nxt6341 3 ปีที่แล้ว +296

      in life, all boils down to a 50/50 chance

    • @Phoboz
      @Phoboz 3 ปีที่แล้ว +323

      @@nxt6341 I always but the lottery when I walk in front of someone selling, cus either I win or I lose. 50/50 chance of being rich yo.

    • @nxt6341
      @nxt6341 3 ปีที่แล้ว +92

      @@Phoboz exactly man, you either win or lose

    • @magno415
      @magno415 3 ปีที่แล้ว +56

      @@nxt6341 you dont have a brain or you have two i cant understand

  • @neandrewthal
    @neandrewthal 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1529

    The fact alone that they make the next child wear an apnea monitor obliterates the idea that the next instant death is just as improbable as the first.

    • @Vsauce2
      @Vsauce2  3 ปีที่แล้ว +383

      Good point. The argument is built right into that.

    • @TheNess667
      @TheNess667 3 ปีที่แล้ว +111

      Yes i was just thinking about how researchers are now understanding more about SIDS and how sleep apnea and structural deformities of the eosophagus have a genetic component to them. Sadly some families may just be more prone to these tragedies than others without knowing why.

    • @vibaj16
      @vibaj16 3 ปีที่แล้ว +37

      I was thinking that it could be genetic, so there would be a higher chance that the 2nd also would have it

    • @ezraho8449
      @ezraho8449 3 ปีที่แล้ว +46

      Yeah I was thinking this while watching the video. She must have the worst defense attorneys of all time for them not to catch any of this.

    • @alaididnalid7660
      @alaididnalid7660 3 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      Well... technically it's not the wearing of the monitor, it's the fact that the monitor gave warnings.

  • @D30TBrendon
    @D30TBrendon 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5708

    This is an incredible concept for a video series. Would love to see more real life math failures.

    • @tiku80
      @tiku80 3 ปีที่แล้ว +97

      ''Would love to see more real life math failures''
      Are you sure?

    • @HeadShotPR
      @HeadShotPR 3 ปีที่แล้ว +22

      There's way too many real life math failures

    • @AxxLAfriku
      @AxxLAfriku 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Let me get this straight: You comment something that is unrelated to the fact that I have two HEAVENLY HANDSOME girlfriends? Considering that I am the unprettiest TH-camr ever, having two handsome girlfriends is really incredible. Yet you did not mention that at all. I am quite disappointed, dear bren

    • @thenateman27
      @thenateman27 3 ปีที่แล้ว +57

      Check out Matt Parkers new book. It's about math failures ranging from a small Oops, to mass death

    • @thenateman27
      @thenateman27 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      OH, and he mentions this exact case

  • @smartereveryday
    @smartereveryday 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1486

    Closing with her words was powerful.

  • @Jabranalibabry
    @Jabranalibabry 3 ปีที่แล้ว +376

    Man, this breaks my heart. Imagine losing two children and then going through such hell. I hope her surviving son and husband are happy, she was a strong person to endure it all

    • @biazacha
      @biazacha 2 ปีที่แล้ว +53

      I would have zero trust in the authorities if I was her son, they literally took his mom from him after the family already suffered so much.

    • @Jabranalibabry
      @Jabranalibabry 2 ปีที่แล้ว +18

      @@biazacha Absolutely, brother, I think that's why it's very important for people in positions of power esp bureaucracies to know that there's a person behind every file and not make it 'routine'.

  • @counterfeit1148
    @counterfeit1148 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3343

    The "Two bombs on a plane is unlikely" thing at the end reminds me of the Blackadder episode where Baldrick says "You know how they say someone somewhere has a bullet with your name on it? Well if I own the bullet with my name on it, I'll never get hit by it because I won't shoot myself".

    • @Vsauce2
      @Vsauce2  3 ปีที่แล้ว +658

      Blackadder is great. My favorite one is the dictionary episode.

    • @thinboxdictator6720
      @thinboxdictator6720 3 ปีที่แล้ว +94

      @@Vsauce2 please accept my most enthusiastic contrafibularities.

    • @mulgerbill
      @mulgerbill 3 ปีที่แล้ว +48

      ​@@Vsauce2 My most sincere contrafibularities to you good sir! But prithee, do not mention the Scottish Play!

    • @adityasuhane8930
      @adityasuhane8930 3 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      I didn't got the joke?
      I mean why to keep a bomb in first place?

    • @souravkb
      @souravkb 3 ปีที่แล้ว +69

      @@adityasuhane8930 since 'the odds two people having bomb is astronomical', if he has a bomb, then there is no chance of others around him having a bomb... So he is safe from bombs (unless his one explodes)

  • @Vsauce3
    @Vsauce3 3 ปีที่แล้ว +6070

    KEVIN! Love this video! It is such a unique way to express information while also telling a story. Great job!

    • @almightyentertainment7333
      @almightyentertainment7333 3 ปีที่แล้ว +29

      Can’t wait for season 3 of CYSTM

    • @imabookworm
      @imabookworm 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Yay

    • @Bibibosh
      @Bibibosh 3 ปีที่แล้ว +13

      Why does TH-cam try to ruin everything good on this website.

    • @NearlyBatman
      @NearlyBatman 3 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      Sorry it got demonetized. And yes, it was definitely very interesting. What is also interesting is why there are only 4 comments here.

    • @gunjanshah4844
      @gunjanshah4844 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@NearlyBatman 5* 😂

  • @ryanhaart
    @ryanhaart 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1511

    I live in the UK and remember this case very well, as it garnered a lot of publicity. At the time, when they talked about how unlikely two cot deaths were, I immediately thought "what about correlation"? Maybe cot death has some genetic causes or other correlations, or maybe there were some unknown toxins in the paint or furniture of the room where the babies slept.

    • @adamrak7560
      @adamrak7560 3 ปีที่แล้ว +247

      Or mold spores from previous water damage. There are many bacteria and mold species which are perfectly harmless for a healthy adult, but quite deadly for a baby.

    • @Treblaine
      @Treblaine 3 ปีที่แล้ว +252

      It's the equivalent of accusing each and every lottery winner of cheating because "the chance of you winning is one in tens of millions" but tens of millions of people play the game!

    • @jamesmccomb9525
      @jamesmccomb9525 3 ปีที่แล้ว +36

      Nothing's changed since then and it never will in British society. People are all too eager to make the same mistakes.

    • @Indrid-Cold
      @Indrid-Cold 2 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      THE ONLY TRULY IMPORTANT QUESTION HERE, IS:
      What the FVCK was a statistician doing on the stand three years prior to THE CORONER with the results of the goddamned autopsy?!?
      Anyone have an answer for this? How and why did it take three years to find out that the child died of a bacterial infection????
      I suppose that’s too much to ask from a country where attorneys dress like penguins, and the judges still wear powdered wigs 🙄

    • @feuby8480
      @feuby8480 2 ปีที่แล้ว +37

      Yeah I though it too. I didn't already see the logic flaw of the calculus, but I knew something was wrong. Just because it's rare does not mean it never happens. And as you stated it, there are MANY, MANY reasons that could lead to two death. I first though the explanation was something like "the baby bed was inadequate", or they put a pillow that blocked baby's breathing. But seing that's because of infection make this way lot horrible.

  • @livinginputnam8820
    @livinginputnam8820 3 ปีที่แล้ว +735

    From someone who's worked in the Child Protective Services field for over 20 years, I believe this is a must-see video for all CPS investigators. Thank you Kevin.

    • @Indrid-Cold
      @Indrid-Cold 2 ปีที่แล้ว +34

      THE ONLY TRULY IMPORTANT QUESTION HERE, IS:
      What the FVCK was a statistician doing on the stand three years prior to THE CORONER with the results of the goddamned autopsy?!?
      Anyone have an answer for this? How and why did it take three years to find out that the child died of a bacterial infection????

    • @orppranator5230
      @orppranator5230 2 ปีที่แล้ว +16

      @@Indrid-Cold Someone at CPS was trying to get promoted for taking down a supposed murderer, and was suppressing that evidence/testimony somehow?

    • @KawaiiCat2
      @KawaiiCat2 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Also for someone who works in early childhood education.

  • @AdamOfIngolstadt
    @AdamOfIngolstadt 2 ปีที่แล้ว +294

    "one is a tragedy, two is suspicious, three is murder" -man who accused woman of murder after 2 deaths

    • @VoidLordHades
      @VoidLordHades 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +8

      this is why humans are failing

  • @TheFinalChapters
    @TheFinalChapters 3 ปีที่แล้ว +160

    The thing that sticks out the most to me as an American is the fact that you could have two jurors vote "not guilty" on murder charges and still have the verdict be "guilty".

    • @Vsauce2
      @Vsauce2  3 ปีที่แล้ว +64

      Good point -- anywhere in the US she wouldn't have been convicted. Given what the UK press published about her, her life still probably would've been terrible, but at least she wouldn't have spent years in prison.

    • @LilyoftheLake14
      @LilyoftheLake14 ปีที่แล้ว +22

      Right!? I was wondering this too! Wouldn't a 10 to 2 vote be a "hung jury" in the US? Idk if they get the case dismissed as not guilty or if they just have a 2nd trial with a new jury at that point though. She definitely wouldn't have been convicted though. Even an 11 to 1 wouldn't have equaled to a conviction. 😔

    • @Mythraen
      @Mythraen ปีที่แล้ว +4

      @@Vsauce2 I mean, I don't know how British courts work. If we just go off the jury of 12 and how they voted, you're right, but I'd want to know a lot more about their court system, and especially their jury system, before I declared, "she wouldn't have been convicted" in ours.

    • @Houshalter
      @Houshalter 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      ​@@LilyoftheLake14 they force the jurors to deliberate until there is a consensus. There is a lot of social pressure to conform, so a hung jury is rare. But at least they get a chance to raise their concerns and talk it over. If they really can't reach a consensus, the prosecution can call a new trial. But a hung jury might convince them the case isn't strong enough to be worth their time.

  • @corrinking96
    @corrinking96 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2091

    This is a really sad video, this woman lost more than most of us could possibly imagine and then rather than anyone having sympathy for her she was convicted by a jury for a horrendous crime that she never committed, and its so much more unfortunate that she basically numbed herself to death from all the pain inflicted upon her. This world is cruel, and ive never hoped someone rested in more peace than i do for this woman.

    • @zombies4u29
      @zombies4u29 3 ปีที่แล้ว +95

      Can't agree more. I hope her remaining family is over compensated for all they've lost

    • @acediadekay3793
      @acediadekay3793 3 ปีที่แล้ว +37

      I shed a tear reading your comment, can't even imagine the demons she have had after an experience so horrendous

    • @user-vn7ce5ig1z
      @user-vn7ce5ig1z 3 ปีที่แล้ว +64

      Unfortunately, this wasn't the only time this sort of thing has happened, there have been numerous cases of people not only losing a loved one, but being accused of doing it and going to jail for it. 😒

    • @ZentaBon
      @ZentaBon 3 ปีที่แล้ว +18

      I would've killed myself if convicted in a case like this.

    • @JamecBond
      @JamecBond 3 ปีที่แล้ว +31

      Cases like this, of backwards justice, are more common than most realize

  • @Stars-Mine
    @Stars-Mine 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1040

    What baffles me so hard is why Meadows assumed the odds of a second instance was the same as a first instance.
    We still dont know the causes for SIDS and how exactly it functions, but we KNOW the conditions were met the first time meaning we know its possible it can happen again.
    LIke lets take a simpler example with better understood odds.. the odds of having a kid that is Schizophrenic is 1 in 100.
    but when you do hit that 1/100 roll, you know something in either the nature or nurture of the home environment raises the odds of a second kid to 1 in 10.
    So the odds of having two kids that are Schizophrenic is not 1/10k, its 1/1k.
    Every time new information is added to a statistical model, the model changes. because the odds were obfuscating unknown variables before.

    • @SiMeGamer
      @SiMeGamer 3 ปีที่แล้ว +92

      That's exactly the point of the video. It used the simplest form of consecutive odds multiplication and not the conditional form.

    • @karlboud88
      @karlboud88 3 ปีที่แล้ว +33

      wait, 2 of my 4 siblings are schizophrenic...

    • @helderboymh
      @helderboymh 3 ปีที่แล้ว +219

      @@karlboud88 are you sure you are not an only child ?

    • @Dialethian
      @Dialethian 3 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      @@helderboymh ???

    • @helderboymh
      @helderboymh 3 ปีที่แล้ว +34

      @@Dialethian it's a joke ;)

  • @alexs6746
    @alexs6746 2 ปีที่แล้ว +548

    Hitchhiker: how did you know I wasn’t a serial killer
    Driver: because the odds of two serial killers being in the same car are astronomical

    • @idontcheckmynotifications7138
      @idontcheckmynotifications7138 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

      I've seen this so much

    • @avriiile
      @avriiile 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +16

      I think its funnier if the driver asks, and the hitchhiker responds

    • @I_am_nobody999
      @I_am_nobody999 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@avriiile Doesn't make sense for the driver to ask. The hitchhiker makes the query because the driver is the one who has to decide to pick him up, ergo - 'thanks for picking me up, but how did you know I wasn't a serial killer?'.

  • @angelicaleder
    @angelicaleder 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +43

    Same thing happened in Australia in 2003 to a mom who had 4 kids die of SIDS (now thought to be due to a genetic mutation predisposing them to sudden cardiac death), she was imprisoned for 20 years and only had her conviction overturned and got out last year. Such a sad story, poor woman lost all her babies and then her husband even turned on her as well. Her name is Kathleen folbigg.

    • @nixm9093
      @nixm9093 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      I read about that, it was truly tragic. She went through hell

    • @SnaabbeamSneebers
      @SnaabbeamSneebers 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      This is another case of people "oh my science" plebbitors not actually understanding the very thing they are referring to.
      That case CANNOT be simply disregarded because of the recdnt THEORETICAL discovery of the dangerous SNPs she is a carrier of.
      It's so insanely frustrating that people do not understand how that woman was unjustifiably freed.
      If you TRULY care about the truth, go ahead and actually look into the case. Don't get ready the headlines about it.
      THEN, read about the single nucleotide polymorphism's in question to that case. Those SNP's have NEVER been shown to cause death, they have only have been AS A LITERAL HYPOTHESIS.

    • @athaya2992
      @athaya2992 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      why did they only convict the mother... its not like she wanted all her babies to die :(

  • @ChaosRaych
    @ChaosRaych 3 ปีที่แล้ว +872

    This terribly tragic situation could be the best answer to anyone who asked, "When am I ever going to use this in real life?" during math class.

    • @wolfgangoppenheimer2905
      @wolfgangoppenheimer2905 3 ปีที่แล้ว +48

      Yes, it really annoys me to no end that people just ignore maths as " WhEn wILl i evER usE iT ".

    • @jieyeongtan1351
      @jieyeongtan1351 3 ปีที่แล้ว +69

      @@wolfgangoppenheimer2905 Well to be fair if they're asking that question they probably never will coz they won't know how to

    • @MementoMoriGrizzly
      @MementoMoriGrizzly 3 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      The people who say that, are too dumb to solve a school exercise, let alone use it in real life. It's a waste of time teaching them in the first place.

    • @Vsauce2
      @Vsauce2  3 ปีที่แล้ว +90

      Unfortunately... yes.

    • @Aki.0049
      @Aki.0049 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@jieyeongtan1351 won't stop them from pretending to, unfortunately

  • @LucaBakiMMA
    @LucaBakiMMA 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1645

    When he said "double infanticide is actually more rare than double COT"
    - Major BRUH moment.

    • @travcollier
      @travcollier 3 ปีที่แล้ว +21

      Frequentist vs Bayesian... The latter approach is far more appropriate to this (and most real world) applications.

    • @hsterts
      @hsterts 3 ปีที่แล้ว +59

      Im no statistician, but if someone had the history and previously had a reason to commit infanticide once, wouldnt the second occurrence be at least more probable?

    • @travcollier
      @travcollier 3 ปีที่แล้ว +39

      @@hsterts I'm not certain, but I would presume so. The statisical term for it is "the events are not independent". If you roll 2 normal dice, the chance of getting 1,1 is just 1/6 × 1/6. But lots of things in life aren't like that.
      Committing infanticide twice is still a lot less common than having two babies dying of SIDS/COT.

    • @jigan2971
      @jigan2971 3 ปีที่แล้ว +58

      @@hsterts you're not accounting in for the probability of having a child after committing infanticide, would you expect someone to have a child after the first one?, and then there's the fact that, there can be genetic defects, where it would likely be probable for it to be reoccurring, it's like a mom has an albino child , and probability of one of the next few children being albino, in which, you'd expect more of a 1 in 4 chance, cause the parents carry a gene for albinism, compared to the 1 in 18,000 - 20,000 , the circumstances change the probability, so, you'd expect double COT to be more like, 1 in 34,172, assuming that the parents only carry one gene associated with COT, it can also be a case where they have multiple genes associated, which can ramp up chances of COT

    • @taylor92493
      @taylor92493 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @jigan Just on the note of “not accounting for” everyone’s model might be slightly different and account for something they deem important. Might be hard to explain that model on TH-cam.

  • @whatever56567
    @whatever56567 3 ปีที่แล้ว +827

    This was a great video. The thing that was most infuriating to me is the fact that he didn’t do the obvious thing and weigh double SIDS vs Double infanticide (even with his poor calculations). Like how tf do you not calculate the rate of the accused crime alongside it if for no other reason than a control number to weigh your odds against when adding up the double SIDS likelihood? I do understand that the numbers are just that, numbers, and choices can negate that. But if you’re going to use the likelihood of two infants dying as ammunition and it has no meaningful contrast, it was just basically manipulating the court. Whether or not it was intentional. Poor woman, she went through hell.

    • @EebstertheGreat
      @EebstertheGreat 3 ปีที่แล้ว +111

      It's the equivalent of arresting someone because they fit the profile of a crime, then arguing that only a tiny fraction of people fit the profile, so he is overwhelmingly likely to be guilty. Prosecutors do this so often, it is called the "prosecutor's fallacy."
      The most egregious example of this I have seen is _People v. Collins._

    • @user-db3xu1hw7r
      @user-db3xu1hw7r 3 ปีที่แล้ว +35

      man with lab coat say big number
      that's all it took

    • @user-vn7ce5ig1z
      @user-vn7ce5ig1z 3 ปีที่แล้ว +26

      The even more obvious thing is to consider the countless other and more likely possibilities from genetic abnormalities to environmental hazards. 🤦

    • @EebstertheGreat
      @EebstertheGreat 3 ปีที่แล้ว +28

      @@user-vn7ce5ig1z Right. From a statistical perspective, this is just the wrong question. If the only information we have is that somewhere there is a woman two of whose children died in infancy for unknown reasons, the question should not be "how often does that happen?" but "out of all times that happens, how often is it because the mother murdered them?" You can't just say a big number and think that means anything. You have to compare two possibilities: guilt and innocence. So if there are more cases of two children of the same mother dying from SIDS or whatever than from two separate murders, we should conclude the mother is probably innocent. And even if the former is much less likely, unless it is _overwhelmingly_ less likely than infanticide, the jury still should find her not guilty.
      There is also the separate problem of multiplying together two probabilities that have not been demonstrated to be independent. In fact, we have very good (and I think fairly obvious) reasons to believe they are not even close to being independent.
      Though, this is all a bit silly, because that wasn't the only evidence presented at the trial. The jury should really weigh all the evidence. Because this statistical argument is so much more prejudicial than probative, it never should have been allowed in the first place. This is ultimately how the appeals court ruled.

    • @dragonkyng
      @dragonkyng 3 ปีที่แล้ว +16

      I mean it’s stated in the video the second kid received special monitors, so the hospital already showed that a SECOND SIDS related death was much more likely and felt it important enough to provide a system to help ensure their baby lived. It unfortunately wasn’t recorded properly, but I think that should skew the odds a massive amount

  • @noidea2568
    @noidea2568 3 ปีที่แล้ว +92

    In my opinion, this is one of your best videos you've made to date. You explain everything very clearly, while telling a great but tragic story, showing how important maths can really be, and why it's important to understand certain concepts, because if we don't, then horrible thing can happen, and real people can be hurt by a simple mistake.
    Great work, I really appreciate it!

  • @zantas-handle
    @zantas-handle 3 ปีที่แล้ว +29

    According to my local Crime Investigation Officer, the odds of your car being vandalised are only 1/220 in my city. But the odds of TWO cars in the same car park being vandalised are much higher, closer to 1/1500. So, whenever I park in the city, I always vandalise somebody's car in the same car park - y'know, just to be on the safe side.

  • @davimelo9181
    @davimelo9181 3 ปีที่แล้ว +317

    As a lawyer myself, I'm constantly baffled with how emotional and irrational is the distribution of value among the evidence

    • @psychopompous489
      @psychopompous489 3 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      People

    • @roseCatcher_
      @roseCatcher_ 3 ปีที่แล้ว +16

      If you are a lawyer, that means you are sometimes paid to deliberately tilt that balance and take advantage of irrationality of the jury, the biases in their collective consensus. Necessary evil, but I don't consider lawyers human.

    • @davimelo9181
      @davimelo9181 3 ปีที่แล้ว +39

      @@roseCatcher_ I see what you mean. Indeed, part of a lawyer's job is to create a narrative that emphasizes the evidence favourable to them. But that's done with the evidence that's given to them, that's already been made by the state. Moreover, a lawyer doesn't have control over the result of an evidence they introduce to the case (it can end up being prejudicial to the defence). So, yeah, you work with what you're given
      But more importantly, a lawyer works against abuses that can and often are committed by the state itself against the individual who's being prosecuted. An individual is always smaller and weaker than the state, and will always be ran over if there's the opportunity.
      So I'd say that's the real value of a lawyer's job, and I believe anyone who's suffered abuse from authorities will agree.

    • @Vsauce2
      @Vsauce2  3 ปีที่แล้ว +67

      The human condition is the human conundrum.

    • @Greywander87
      @Greywander87 3 ปีที่แล้ว +17

      @@roseCatcher_ This is unfair. There's a lot of scummy lawyers, to be sure, but the entire idea is that both lawyers argue their position as best they can, and whichever one has the Truth on their side will be victorious. You can't have a fair trial if both lawyers aren't doing their darnedest to argue their positions. Even a guilty person deserves a fair trial, because we want to be absolutely certain that they were, in fact, guilty. A prosecutor and defense attorney arguing their positions are like a hammer and anvil striking together. If both sides argue perfectly, then all untruth will be obliterated between these two forces, leaving the Truth apparent to all. Sadly, they're not perfect, but it's the best we've got right now.

  • @TheFaxMachine69
    @TheFaxMachine69 3 ปีที่แล้ว +783

    Hearing that she got released made me so happy, then hearing she died honestly crushed me

    • @Vsauce2
      @Vsauce2  3 ปีที่แล้ว +279

      Yeah, this one seems to have a happy ending until it... doesn't. Somehow a terrible story managed to get even worse.

    • @vigilantcosmicpenguin8721
      @vigilantcosmicpenguin8721 3 ปีที่แล้ว +50

      Nobody won.

    • @vibaj16
      @vibaj16 3 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      I somehow misread "released" as "arrested", so you can imagine how I initially reacted to your comment

    • @germanycountryhuman2227
      @germanycountryhuman2227 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      same bro

    • @mr.boomguy
      @mr.boomguy 3 ปีที่แล้ว +29

      I honestly don't blame her for dying the way she did. She was fighting a whole country.
      I cannot imagine the amount of stress and turmoil she must've been through...

  • @5GTower1000Percent
    @5GTower1000Percent 3 ปีที่แล้ว +758

    Imagine losing 2 children and then being called a monster by people who only repeat flawed statistics they themself don't understand.
    On the other hand it is absolutely disgusting to see how an expert we are supposed to trust abuses his position of power and doesn't admit that he may actually be wrong when other experts question his calculations.
    My guess is, to solve this issue, that in medical cases the whole case should be checked by several independent groups of experts. These take months anyway, so having several independent groups of expert's check them would make it more clear if it is crystal clear or if critical information is needed.

    • @tastes-like-straberries
      @tastes-like-straberries 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Agreed

    • @Indrid-Cold
      @Indrid-Cold 2 ปีที่แล้ว +32

      THE ONLY TRULY IMPORTANT QUESTION HERE, IS:
      What the FVCK was a statistician doing on the stand three years prior to THE CORONER with the results of the goddamned autopsy?!?
      Anyone have an answer for this? How and why did it take three years to find out that the child died of a bacterial infection????

    • @Soneoak
      @Soneoak 2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      The calculations are correct, the judge and jury have no idea what was happening and just passed judgement after being told of the likelihood equivalence and had no idea what they were doing.
      The expert isn't wrong, his data was wrongly applied.

    • @nomekop777
      @nomekop777 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      That 2nd paragraph hits hard. Also who's fauchi?

    • @AnnekeOosterink
      @AnnekeOosterink 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      The problem here is also, a pediatrician is not a statistician, so he was not an expert on those statistics, yet he was trusted to interpret them. Being skilled in one area does not make him skilled in another.

  • @TheTrevorS1
    @TheTrevorS1 3 ปีที่แล้ว +85

    As an engineer, I feel the need to learn from the failures of math from real world cases like this one so I don't have to experience them personal. This video is well done.

  • @alexeykozyrev5939
    @alexeykozyrev5939 3 ปีที่แล้ว +25

    This is a brilliant video. How could it be demonetized?! This is probably the most important work you’ve done on TH-cam. Keep going Kevin

  • @Crypt4l
    @Crypt4l 3 ปีที่แล้ว +405

    Even if his math was right, an event that occurs about every century, is sill a event, that can be expected to occur every century and not prove of murder.

    • @roseCatcher_
      @roseCatcher_ 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Nah it will be outside realistic boundaries if his calculations were correct.

    • @Vsauce2
      @Vsauce2  3 ปีที่แล้ว +187

      SOMEONE'S gotta be the 1 in "1 in a something."

    • @ZentaBon
      @ZentaBon 3 ปีที่แล้ว +38

      @@roseCatcher_ is it truly? Do you truly want to chance people's lives that way? Imagine this as a lottery to win, except you only win life in prison.

    • @vigilantcosmicpenguin8721
      @vigilantcosmicpenguin8721 3 ปีที่แล้ว +18

      If seven million people buy a lottery ticket, one of them has to win.

    • @Crypt4l
      @Crypt4l 3 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      @@vigilantcosmicpenguin8721 No, the chance to win the lottery is about 1 in 14 million, but your sentiment is correct :)

  • @Lawh
    @Lawh 3 ปีที่แล้ว +214

    I have had this personal joke that I say to myself in my head, where when I have anxiety about dying or something, I think, "What are the odds of me dying when I randomly get a jolt of fear of dying?". I laugh, because I at the same time knew that it doesn't work that way, and how that thought still and joke still comforts me a little. This perfectly summarized what I never actually articulated to myself.
    Knowledge is power, and too little knowledge is misguided power.

    • @Vsauce2
      @Vsauce2  3 ปีที่แล้ว +75

      Diffusing internal tension with a statistics/probability joke is amazing.

    • @PtylerBeats
      @PtylerBeats 2 ปีที่แล้ว +18

      This kind of reminds me of when I was a kid learning about religion. I always had these super weird questions for my dad and people at my church because things just didn’t make sense to me. The pastor said something along the lines of, “the second coming of Christ will never happen when you expect it. It wouldn’t be possible to predict when it’ll happen.” I dont remember the exact words, but I held onto that sentiment. Because it baffled me. Sooo… it’s not happening tomorrow because I could predict that it would happen tomorrow. And it’s not happening within the next 1 million years because I could predict right now that it’ll happen in the next 1 million years. Even though I knew that that’s not how predictions worked, part of me felt like his paradoxical statement implied that I could control when the second coming of Christ would happen because I COULDN’T predict it. So if I predicted every day that it would happen tomorrow, I would always be wrong, and I would forever have control over that. Because I could count on me being wrong.

    • @alpheusmadsen8485
      @alpheusmadsen8485 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@PtylerBeats That reasoning even has a name for it, but I can't remember it off the top of my head (it may be something like the "prisoner's paradox", because it involves a prisoner deciding he won't be executed, because the judge said he'll be executed this week, but he won't know the day).
      As a religious person, I've never really been bothered by this, because I figure I'll just do my best to be ready for it today, and if it comes today, I'll be as prepared as I could be (give or take a bit of variation). Also, whenever a new date gets put on a billboard, or gets blasted in headlines, I always ignore it, because we're specifically *warned* we won't know the date, so anyone telling us otherwise doesn't know what they are talking about!

  • @bengriffiths9631
    @bengriffiths9631 3 ปีที่แล้ว +472

    It always amazes me that some experts in different fields rarely explore ideas from outside their area. There was a flurry of papers released in medical journals fairly recently claiming to have developed a new analytical technique for reading a patients data. Turns out the authors had re-discovered numerical integration, a very basic analytical method in maths.

    • @bjmben88
      @bjmben88 3 ปีที่แล้ว +44

      If I remember correctly it was just the one author that made that claim, and they were quickly ridiculed and debunked in response papers.

    • @micahphilson
      @micahphilson 3 ปีที่แล้ว +99

      "This will revolutionize medicine as we know it! We call it... Calculus!"

    • @penitentman7139
      @penitentman7139 3 ปีที่แล้ว +14

      Experts like to stay blind to anything that isn't their own way of thinking because, well they are the "expert" after all. All they care about is their paycheck, if what they're expected to do requires actual work, they just revert back to their closed minded, quick and easy solutions instead of taking the real life happenings for each individual case into consideration

    • @Jvk1166z
      @Jvk1166z 3 ปีที่แล้ว +15

      i mean, its not surprising to me. to be a medical doctor you dont need to have much statistical math knowledge as far as i know. if you dont have an interest in it personally, you're not gonna go research it. like if i have an interest in astronomy, im not gonna go researching medicine because thats not what im interested in

    • @BertiferousRex
      @BertiferousRex 3 ปีที่แล้ว +21

      There was an article about midichlorians that got published in a medical journal just to see if it could. It was.

  • @ShouVertica
    @ShouVertica 2 ปีที่แล้ว +38

    It seems crazy that someone just looks at a SIDS death and goes "yep, no way it could happen twice!" lol. What.
    This guy was insane.

  • @RennyNanaya
    @RennyNanaya 3 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    I love this somber tone integrated into the enthusiastic and curious framing. You really pulled it off well!

  • @leidecarvalhodemello4594
    @leidecarvalhodemello4594 3 ปีที่แล้ว +219

    Just hearing about this makes my blood boil, when statics are used in court, there should be at least one highly educated matematician to check for these kind of mistakes, one life was lost, such a tragedie…

    • @NaoyaYami
      @NaoyaYami 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      But no one wants to pay math budget.

    • @heyyou9137
      @heyyou9137 3 ปีที่แล้ว +30

      More idiotic is that later they found medical documents showing bacteria infection. Where were they when court found her guilty?

    • @NaoyaYami
      @NaoyaYami 3 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      @@heyyou9137 Possibly obfuscated so that it wouldn't influence the judgement.

    • @navinsingh1730
      @navinsingh1730 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      The doctor was doing the math, what else do you expect?

    • @vibaj16
      @vibaj16 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      or there should be more motion in court

  • @bentaylor8299
    @bentaylor8299 3 ปีที่แล้ว +82

    4:28 P(A|B) isnt the probability of A then B. Its the probaility of A given B. With a coin flip, the probabily of A being heads given B is heads is 0.5, as its independent. But the probabilty of B being heads then A being heads is 0.25, as we need to depend on B also being heads. When with A given B we have assumed B is already heads.

    • @fetchstixRHD
      @fetchstixRHD 3 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      Wanted to say that - while I know what was meant, the wording used is likely to be confusing.

    • @cobalt7678
      @cobalt7678 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Yup exactly

    • @CheshyrCatt
      @CheshyrCatt 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Thank you - I felt like I was being really anal when he was describing this.

    • @lukasvik4636
      @lukasvik4636 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      No I wasnt stuck on questioning my probability knowlage for like 10 minutes or if I just misunderstood or what was happening. And I was definitely not excited to notice this comment after asking myself if noone caught the mistake, especially cause it would not work with the joke in the end. So Thank u for saving my soul and mind 😅

    • @bentaylor8299
      @bentaylor8299 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@lukasvik4636 haha no worries. I remember making this comment, and it was an inconsequential thing but it kept playing on my mind

  • @alkatron768
    @alkatron768 3 ปีที่แล้ว +154

    Another thought, both kids dying of that specific illness might be 1/73 million, what are the chances of both kids dying of any 2 unrelated illnesses? like 1/10'000? what about both kids dying of the same illness, but the illness isn't specified? that might drop the number to more reasonable 1/1 million maybe.
    I don't know if I'm on a wrong logic train here, but it seems somewhat relevant. That specific case may have been unlikely, but there are other unlikely cases that could also have happened.

    • @CouchPotator
      @CouchPotator 3 ปีที่แล้ว +27

      That is indeed the point, you are on the correct train. The second kid even died of a bacterial infection, a fact that was somehow lost in the first trial.

    • @willguggn2
      @willguggn2 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      I don't get how it got through. Like nobody had ever heard of a family tragically losing two children before, because each specific case is almost impossible.

    • @ZentaBon
      @ZentaBon 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      And what's sad is...just because it's unlikely to happen doesn't mean it didn't. :( we can't just go with what's most likely every time because many, many of our conclusions would then be untrue.

    • @NaoyaYami
      @NaoyaYami 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      That's exactly what that example of 2 car crashes in 2 months was about. That ex-expert treated both cases as identical which was obviously idiotic, since there's no chance that circumstances were exactly the same, especially since the parents already experienced sid before. Just another case of emotions (mostly pride I guess) triumphing over empyrical evidence and logic.

    • @NaoyaYami
      @NaoyaYami 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@willguggn2 Emotions. Just that. Most adults have this weird idea that children's life is sacred and holy but never even try to expand it to other adults. Hence, when 2 babies died under care of the same couple, humans wanted to see an easy to accept explanation and maybe get a feeling that the world will be a better place once the mother is sentenced. I guess that's similar to how ancient civilizations imagined all those different gods (like egyptian god Ra moving the Sun on the sky which we know is factually not true).

  • @GoldeeLoxs
    @GoldeeLoxs 3 ปีที่แล้ว +10

    I’ve been watching you and vsauce 1 & 3 for about a decade now and your videos have been awesome, educational, and entertaining!!! I’m so sorry that you got demonetized. It’s rough seeing content creators who put so much hard work and thought into their videos not get paid for their work. I hope you know that you, Michael, and Jake have made content that’s had a real impact on people all over the world (myself included).
    It’s not money and it won’t pay your bills, but I still would like to say: Thanks man!

  • @iluxa-4000
    @iluxa-4000 2 ปีที่แล้ว +17

    1 in 73 million is not even that impossible, why did they go so hard on this?

    • @kart182
      @kart182 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      You serious?

    • @iluxa-4000
      @iluxa-4000 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      @@kart182 there are billions of humans doing things every single second, there are quadrillions small things that shift and change around us all the time. To get my point across clearer - the odds are somewhat similar to winning a lottery. Except you don't buy 1, 2 or even 10 tickets. Everybody buys hundreds, thousands of tickets every day. If anything, it's pretty wild that stuff like that doesn't happen more often. Now, of course, the math used to get to 1 in 73 million was *so* wrong, the situation itself is not a simple chance game, but still, it is not that unlikely that it would happen to someone

    • @kart182
      @kart182 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@iluxa-4000 I guess it’s subjective, so there’s no right answer, but I think your decision of what is improbable vs not improbably is kind of dumb. Yes of course, some odds are insanely tiny, like a human cell being found on Jupiter, 1 in a googolplex or something, but how tf is that relevant to real world probabilities?
      The probabilities of many things happening to and within the human population is not likely to be on a scale even remotely close to 1/googolplex, but much closer to 1 in 75 million.
      Many things we encounter every day have much higher odds than that. The odds of being struck by lightning in the US is around 1/1.2million, and you’re saying 1/73m is “not that improbable”. BRUH

  • @teabagfc
    @teabagfc 3 ปีที่แล้ว +115

    An excellent video!
    In the first year of my maths degree I sat an Introduction to Statistics course in which the lecturer constantly used the Sally Clark case in his examples about probabilities and conditional probabilities, almost to the point that the students were sick of hearing about it. Nevertheless, there's a class of students who will *never* allow themselves to make mistakes on conditional probabilities.

    • @Vsauce2
      @Vsauce2  3 ปีที่แล้ว +34

      That's great, Dom -- and it's a lesson that probably can't be reinforced too often.

    • @Indrid-Cold
      @Indrid-Cold 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@Vsauce2 THE ONLY TRULY IMPORTANT QUESTION HERE, IS:
      What the FVCK was some nerdy statistician doing on the stand three years prior to THE CORONER/Pathologist, with the results of the goddamned autopsy?!?
      Anyone have an answer for this? How, and why did it take three years to find out that the CAUSE OF DEATH was a bacterial infection???
      I suppose that’s too much to ask from a country where attorneys dress like penguins, and the judges still wear powdered wigs 🙄

  • @jakey1995abc
    @jakey1995abc 3 ปีที่แล้ว +189

    Am I the only one who thought this was common sense in the medical field... When something occurs once it tends to be much more likely to reoccur?

    • @SoulDelSol
      @SoulDelSol 3 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      Exactly

    • @Vsauce2
      @Vsauce2  3 ปีที่แล้ว +73

      It hurts to even think about how obvious that should've been.

    • @kennethkho7165
      @kennethkho7165 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Exactly

    • @harischastoukis8471
      @harischastoukis8471 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      @@Vsauce2 I am a bit late to the party but even if the propability is 1 in 73 million you have 330 million Americans so a court should atleast face around 5 cases of this level of improbability. If my math is right the propability of having atleast 1 american this happens too is 99%

    • @ernimuja6991
      @ernimuja6991 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Common sense works like that but that's a fallacy all on its own.
      Like if I get heads 50 times in a row, the next one HAS to be heads right? No.
      So the probability that the death of the second child is predicated on the first is also really low.

  • @ehrichweiss
    @ehrichweiss 3 ปีที่แล้ว +44

    In less than 2 weeks of September of 2019 I had my car hit THREE times. My insurance company(Progressive) didn't even bat an eye when I told them because I've had so many cars hit just in front of my house that they're used to it. Hell, I've been hit twice in a month's time more than three times that I can recall. It happens because my town is utterly full of people who can't drive, won't look when changing lanes, etc. and far too many of those accidents were hit and runs because they also seem to be drunk when they hit you(and a H&R charge is easier to deal with than a DUI so they will always run). For the record, I keep full coverage on my cars because of the hit and runs.

    • @Vsauce2
      @Vsauce2  3 ปีที่แล้ว +19

      Ok, that's wild. And it sounds frustrating. But it's a good example of what's in this video!

  • @Doppio3006
    @Doppio3006 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I am an applied statistics graduate, and I have been telling students even way back, that statistics is one of the most important things to learn, and they just laughed at me. Thank you, Kevin, for sharing this video, even if TH-cam demonetized this, we really appreciate this, keep it up!

  • @gustavosaddi
    @gustavosaddi 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    This is undoubtedly your best video so far!
    It’s great to watch the explanations of paradoxes e statistical probabilities. But seeing a real example of how a misinterpretation of a simple theory ruined somebody’s life is mind blowing.
    Please, keep up the series!

  • @philrobson7976
    @philrobson7976 3 ปีที่แล้ว +116

    Wow, Kevin, you really outdid yourself in this episode. A sad and tragic outcome that I hope will correct some legal injustices. Keep it up!

    • @Vsauce2
      @Vsauce2  3 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      Thanks, Phil! More on the way...

    • @ZentaBon
      @ZentaBon 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@Vsauce2 that's good to hear. I hope you enjoy making these as much as I enjoy learning about these cases. It's tragic, as this sort of thing could happen to you, or to me. I can't imagine how truly terrifying it is to be in the situation she is in. I've had to stay away from true crime because it upsets me how certain people portray themselves over outcomes that, to me don't at all appear certain.

  • @austinevans
    @austinevans 3 ปีที่แล้ว +86

    Terrific video my friend!!

    • @PashtunChad
      @PashtunChad ปีที่แล้ว

      never expected to see Austin Evans in this comment section. How does your comment have only 77 likes?

  • @raspxaseron6464
    @raspxaseron6464 3 ปีที่แล้ว +151

    TH-cam makes no sense. They demonitize this and yet the multitude of things they should, such as naked yoga which I didn't know was a thing until Reddit pointed it out, they cast a blind eye to. I know losing the revenue from this hurts, but for what it's worth this was great and a interesting presentation. I always love to a new video from you in my subscriptions. To you and the team that makes these videos possible keep up the amazing work.

    • @paulthompson9668
      @paulthompson9668 3 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      RaspX Aseron It was demonetized because the video was not inclusive or diverse enough.

    • @raspxaseron6464
      @raspxaseron6464 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@paulthompson9668 Thank you for the information. That at least sheds some light to the matter.

    • @jerecakes1
      @jerecakes1 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      @@paulthompson9668 huh
      didnt know that can strip off monetization lmao wtf

    • @paulthompson9668
      @paulthompson9668 3 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      ​@@jerecakes1 My comment was (somewhat) tongue in cheek. Sergey Brin and Susan Wojcicki (the people who control TH-cam) have taken the approach that you're immunized from demonetization if you tow the party line (i.e., what Big Tech, Hollywood, and the mainstream media present as the "right" way to think).

    • @sudonim7367
      @sudonim7367 3 ปีที่แล้ว +13

      @@paulthompson9668 Blind leading the blind right here

  • @th3n3wk1dd
    @th3n3wk1dd 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Great job Kevin. Brought a tear to my eyes but as an analyst, I have tried explaining this to many people and they never got it. Maybe it is my fault for not being able to explain it properly, but this video did a great job.
    Thank you.

  • @adamnorthrop79
    @adamnorthrop79 3 ปีที่แล้ว +11

    Can’t believe TH-cam demonetized this! It’s educational and entertaining. Nothing about this goes against their guidelines.

  • @Hartbreak1
    @Hartbreak1 3 ปีที่แล้ว +44

    Amazing episode. I wouldn’t be surprised in this case if that Meadow guy was already prejudiced when providing testimony and just chose the math that made her look the worst.

    • @Vsauce2
      @Vsauce2  3 ปีที่แล้ว +34

      There's some odd evidence that suggests Meadow defaulted to guilt, including his ex-wife saying he assumed that child abuse was happening way too often.

  • @lafcursiax
    @lafcursiax 3 ปีที่แล้ว +56

    Thank you for covering this tragedy. I wasn't familiar with this case, but having read about the satanic panic of the '80s & '90s, I'm all too familiar with how easy it is for flawed science to seem convincing when accusers have the specter of child endangerment to silence critical thinking. And of course, this terrible episode is a powerful argument for making sure everyone is trained in mathematical literacy!

    • @Vsauce2
      @Vsauce2  3 ปีที่แล้ว +13

      The cult/Satanic panic especially in California is a shocking subject -- a documentary that Sean Penn narrated does a great job with it. It's called "Witch Hunt" and it's awesome. Check it out if you haven't seen it!

  • @albl247
    @albl247 3 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    This may be one of the most important videos you have ever done. Thank you.

    • @Vsauce2
      @Vsauce2  3 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      Thanks, Bisley -- it certainly felt that way making it.

  • @ZacJelke
    @ZacJelke 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    It is absolutely shameful that TH-cam would demonetize this. I enjoy all of your videos but it is really interesting to see more real-life applications of the theoretical probability stuff you show. Fantastic video!

  • @Alkis05
    @Alkis05 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    My statistics professor made all his exams with questions with high stakes like that:
    "Do you convict this person of murder based on this probability argument? Why?" or;
    "The probability of a ship passing near this desert island is X/week. How long do you have to make your poor rations last so it will last until the next one shows up"
    It was very tense.

  • @strawberryowl962
    @strawberryowl962 3 ปีที่แล้ว +212

    It's like someone making a three-pointer basketball shot alone while facing backwards and then this one popular kid called it fake (even tho it has happened before) and gets bullied by the whole school for being a "liar".

    • @chuck_norris
      @chuck_norris 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      lmao

    • @ioannisloukas4131
      @ioannisloukas4131 3 ปีที่แล้ว +17

      Is it a personal experience of yours?

    • @noahsan92
      @noahsan92 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@ioannisloukas4131 sounds like it

    • @strawberryowl962
      @strawberryowl962 3 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      @@ioannisloukas4131 Not the basketball part (I never played basketball) but the school bullying part since I get teased in my classmates a lot when I was younger.

    • @iShionSinX
      @iShionSinX 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      True story, I witnessed another kid from my 4th grade class do it.

  • @lystalan
    @lystalan 3 ปีที่แล้ว +18

    Thank you for this video. I’ll be sharing with my engineering team. It is important to remember that when dealing with numbers and probabilities what we are really doing is trying to protect people from harm. This is an example of why it is important to think critical and not just go through the motions.

    • @lucusloc
      @lucusloc 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      It's also important to remember, especially for engineers, that statistics is really just covering for unknowns. As soon as you figure out those unknowns it is no longer a statistical calculation, but a deterministic one. That is what a huge part of engineering is; trying to convert statistical calculations to deterministic ones.

    • @Vsauce2
      @Vsauce2  3 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      Engineering is a great field to recognize that we have known knowns, known unknowns, unknown unknowns... and values attached to all of them. 10/10 comment, thank youuuu

  • @kayoliver5530
    @kayoliver5530 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Thank you so much for doing this video, I remember this case so clearly and the hate mob that were screaming and shouting "murderer" at the prison van she was in. I could never even imagine the pain Sally and her husband went through, still to this day there are so many people who staunchly believe she is guilty and will not let her rest in peace or her husband and child live their lives as best they can. Roy Meadows should have been given a life sentence.
    I hope more people here in the UK see this video.

  • @Thiago100Zwetsch
    @Thiago100Zwetsch 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Out of every video I ever watched on this channel, this, by no coparisson, is the number one. This is a masterpiece. Great job, Kevin. KEEP ON!

  • @ZunarZulfiqar
    @ZunarZulfiqar 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Kevin, well done. As Jake put it, a unique delivery method. This was heartbreaking, but seriously insightful. I don't get math, but somehow this just made sense and it was informative as I hadn't heard about this story before. Entertainment backed with a serious level of lessons to learn. I'm voting you do more of these.

  • @wicked_wralf
    @wicked_wralf 3 ปีที่แล้ว +21

    This was honestly incredible. Love the new format. Would love to see more like this in the future!

    • @Vsauce2
      @Vsauce2  3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Thanks, Jacob! Perhaps you will...

    • @vez3834
      @vez3834 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@Vsauce2 Eh, what are the chances?

  • @RGC_animation
    @RGC_animation 3 ปีที่แล้ว +86

    For those who didn't get the "Two bombs on a plane is unlikely" joke, it's as likely as another person has a bomb in this circumstance because the first bomb is already guarantied to be on the plane.

    • @morfeusfs
      @morfeusfs 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      But this is not so much about conditional probability, as he says in the video, but more about the Gambler's fallacy, right? The two events are unrelated, so one doesn't influence the other.

    • @Vsauce2
      @Vsauce2  3 ปีที่แล้ว +25

      Right -- and you bringing one on the plane (or not) is entirely independent of whether someone else will. Conflating your actions with independent actions matters here.

    • @Robbedem
      @Robbedem 3 ปีที่แล้ว +19

      actually I'ld even dare say that if you are able to bring a bomb on the plane, the chance of someone else doing so is higher because it means there is very little security checking going on. ;)

    • @RGC_animation
      @RGC_animation 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@Robbedem Haha lol that is true.

    • @picklenik9658
      @picklenik9658 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@Robbedem Now that is what we call some sensible statistics, using some outside logic in order to better evaluate probability.

  • @TheSykobanana
    @TheSykobanana 3 ปีที่แล้ว +27

    Mate, that was incredible and being in Australia, I had no knowledge of it at all.
    Thankyou for making this!

    • @Vsauce2
      @Vsauce2  3 ปีที่แล้ว +12

      Thanks, Syko -- Australia's got some pretty crazy cases like this, too. Might poke around a bit to see if there's a good math-related topic on the island. :)

  • @mattrenegar476
    @mattrenegar476 3 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Total BS that this video got demonetized. SHAME ON TH-cam for not reversing the decision immediately. You are awesome Kevin. Please don't let this hold you back from producing the amazing content that you always have!!

  • @pippyharrison9745
    @pippyharrison9745 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    We used this as a case study in my stats degree as an example of misconceptions in decision theory. Amazing video

  • @khianjoshabesamis9608
    @khianjoshabesamis9608 3 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    THIS IS AMAZING. The ingenuity, the education merging with the thrill and drama. OUTSTANDING

    • @Vsauce2
      @Vsauce2  3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      That means a lot, Khian -- THANK YOU. SERIOUSLY.

    • @khianjoshabesamis9608
      @khianjoshabesamis9608 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@Vsauce2 First time I actually got a reply from a TH-cam celebrity. That reply just made my entire week a whole lot better. Thank you for that too

  • @RLeaguer_Saint
    @RLeaguer_Saint 3 ปีที่แล้ว +56

    Beautifully and compassionately presented. Willful Ignorance of science has never been more problematic as it today, and this is a great example of the consequences. Thank you.

    • @Vsauce2
      @Vsauce2  3 ปีที่แล้ว +20

      Thanks, Saint -- one of the most glaring elements to this story was how indignant Roy Meadow was about his ignorance of the principles at work. Really, really bizarre.

  • @noelblack8159
    @noelblack8159 3 ปีที่แล้ว +136

    Two Vsauce‘s in one day?
    It’s a Beautiful day for sure!

  • @stargazingsongs
    @stargazingsongs 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    if you flip a coin 99 times and it lands on head every single time, the chance of it landing on heads the 100th time you flip it is still 50%

  • @mihaihuidan573
    @mihaihuidan573 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    How could someone demonetize this? This is one of the most interesting videos on the whole youtube.

  • @richardfrenette6648
    @richardfrenette6648 3 ปีที่แล้ว +13

    Wow, amazing video Kevin. Great story, great perspective! We want more of that. Medical, engineering, financial (2008 debacle), math errors are important to understand.

    • @Vsauce2
      @Vsauce2  3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      The math of the 2008 financial crisis probably would not fit in TH-cam's 10-hour video limit.

  • @makfrags14
    @makfrags14 3 ปีที่แล้ว +140

    I'm convinced vsauce is my maths and science teacher

  • @EebstertheGreat
    @EebstertheGreat 3 ปีที่แล้ว +97

    The prosecutor's fallacy isn't about erroneously assuming statistical independence. It's about falsely conflating the p-value of a test with the probability that the defendant is innocent. It's possible to perform the test correctly and still be guilty of the fallacy.

    • @UsmanMuhammadNooruddin
      @UsmanMuhammadNooruddin 3 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      This is a very good and a very deep explanation of the fallacy that clears a lot for me. Thanks!

    • @EagleDarkX
      @EagleDarkX 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      I think the best example of it - when talking about improbable, recent events - is the moderators' and internet's response to the Dream cheating scandal.
      Statistics is a terribly misused tool.

    • @mufflebuns6322
      @mufflebuns6322 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@EagleDarkX Oh, with statements like the 1 in 7.5 trillion chance being spread around, rather than the more accurate version of it? (I haven't taken Stats in a while, but I think it was more so like 1 in 7.5 trillion similar simulations would produce such a result)

    • @EagleDarkX
      @EagleDarkX 3 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      @@mufflebuns6322 The point is not that the 1 in 7.5 trillion is inaccurate, it's that nobody understood what that number represents.
      What that number represents is the likelyhood that the underlying probabilities are as defined in the games code are, correctly, used to determine the outcomes of both ender pearls and blaze rods. Some people took it as the chance that dream's runs were not cheated. There's a nuance difference there, a step that if it weren't skipped, would have saved us a whole lot of drama.

    • @ZentaBon
      @ZentaBon 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@EagleDarkX can someone explain this? Did he cheat simply because of the rarity of what happened?

  • @shirirukun6325
    @shirirukun6325 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    This is why I think you should consult a professional or a friend who has background in something before showing your output to everyone.
    Like in a school setting, if you are unsure yourself in your answer, you either copy from the one who is smartest in that subject, or a friend who won't give you wrong answers.
    Pretty great vid overall in discussing how important maths can be in real life. Hoping for more content

  • @almahnak12
    @almahnak12 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    This video was so deep, it had its own one rising action, exposition, climax and everything

  • @AceMoonshot
    @AceMoonshot 3 ปีที่แล้ว +67

    Kent Brockman: Mr. Simpson, how do you respond to the charge that petty vandalism such as graffiti is down 80% while heavy sack beatings are up a shocking 900%?
    Homer: Oh, people can come up with statistics to prove anything, Kent. 40% of all people know that.

    • @kilangalangamoekalon
      @kilangalangamoekalon 3 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      Lisa: Dad, don't you see you're abusing your power like old vgilantes? I mean, if you're the police, who will police the police?
      Homer: I don't know, postguard?

  • @HexerPsy
    @HexerPsy 3 ปีที่แล้ว +51

    Still makes me wonder what the proper manner is for calculating the ods of double SIDS.
    A quick google search says the risk of SIDS is increased when a sibling died of SIDS before you. Which makes sense, since you put a breathing monitor on the next baby when there was a SIDS; you wouldnt do that if it was completely random.
    So what should it have been?
    1/8543 * 1/50 or something similar?

    • @MisterIncog
      @MisterIncog 3 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      yeah, if we view it outside of the timeline, so to speak. Like, if we take random woman with no children and try to predict that outcome... But if you're in trial about the second child dead than the first child already died and therefore for Sally in her point in life it was JUST 1/50. Because the first case already happened and we should try to predict only the second death. My explanation is kinda messy, not a native speaker, sorry

    • @HexerPsy
      @HexerPsy 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@MisterIncog I see what you mean. That would make sense for the case of the mother had to stand trail for child 2 and not for both.
      But then I cant see them winning on murder if they only had to consider one death.
      Still..... Its a great video to show why math matters in society :)

    • @Vsauce2
      @Vsauce2  3 ปีที่แล้ว +19

      It depends on so many elements, like the few mentioned (age of mother, smoking, etc.). You'd have to identify every one of an individual's risk factors, AND have a reasonable value for each of them, to get a "1 in n" number that might actually be useful. It would take a lifetime to try, and you still wouldn't get all the risk factors, some of which we don't even know about yet.

    • @moto2442
      @moto2442 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@Vsauce2 It's interesting as well because UK homes extensively used asbestos in construction before 1999. If the house they lived in used asbestos that would probably increase the rate of SIDs.
      If there was mould, an unknown genetic defect like you mentioned (which was my first thought once you laid out the initial case), if they lived in an area with high air pollution then all of these would substantially affect the odds. Before even getting into minutiae that would have massively compounding effects.

    • @ds43045
      @ds43045 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@moto2442 I may be mistaken, but I am pretty sure asbestos takes 20+ years to really have any significant effect. It's basically just sharp dust that you inhale and it gets imbedded in your lungs. Years of breathing causes tiny damages as the lung tissues expands/contracts, eventually causing scar tissue and reduced lung function. Its a very slow process with no real way to stop it once the asbestos is in there.

  • @ShayanSaqiba
    @ShayanSaqiba 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    the editing is so cool i love it definitely bring him back

    • @Vsauce2
      @Vsauce2  3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      John Swan nailed it on this one.

  • @xotbirdox
    @xotbirdox 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I hate maths, I'm autistic and was late diagnosed and I'm convinced they missed a diagnosis of comorbid dyscalculia growing up too. Maths just does not compute with me, I've never been able to understand it. So I've become almost scared of trying most of the time bc I know I'll look like an idiot. But you make it interesting and actually way easier to understand. I never watched your videos until yesterday, although I'd heard of you a lot over the years. I will definitely be watching now.
    Also, even I, certified Terrible At Maths™️, took one look at the fact that, that "expert" just multiplied to get to 1 in 73 million and said "oh, you definitely can't do that!" Like, if even I, someone who very probably has a learning disability in maths, who doesn't understand fractions at all and can't do multiplication tables much higher than 5, can understand immediately that he made a HUGE mistake, then what excuse does he have? He should hang his head in shame at how he ruined this poor woman's life. Glad he got struck off.

  • @StrangeTamer86
    @StrangeTamer86 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Wow, this one effects me personally due to SIDS cases in my life, and i think this is a great way to prove that maths isn't everything and that we are not just numbers and statistics. We are all made from a unique set of circumstances that shape our lives that, however unlikely to repeat themselves, still has a chance to happen. Thanks Kevin, as always, i love your work

    • @taylor92493
      @taylor92493 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I thought this was to prove math is everything… as they were going to use probability in the court anyway. I mean you saw what happened here to someone that had a shotty mathematician involved.

  • @sugibudder
    @sugibudder 3 ปีที่แล้ว +18

    9:35
    My first thought was to consider how many times she has tried, its not suprising to win a 1 in a million game if you try it a million times.

    • @ottlight
      @ottlight 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      you still only have a 62% chance

    • @sugibudder
      @sugibudder 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@ottlight My point was that we automatically ignore all the fails because of confimation bias.

  • @tatianemarques6002
    @tatianemarques6002 3 ปีที่แล้ว +155

    Man, this is the best TH-cam video that I seen in years! TH-cam just increase the probability for more views 😂😂Go, go Kumon!! Good job!

    • @slevinchannel7589
      @slevinchannel7589 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @HคMMคď MцʂŤคϝค Youre a science-fan, yes?

  • @d0ubl3d
    @d0ubl3d 3 ปีที่แล้ว +14

    actually a great video, the thought of being wrongfully convicted over faulty math is truly terrifying to me and shows how important cases like these are

    • @Vsauce2
      @Vsauce2  3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Thanks, Double D -- and it definitely shows how fragile the whole legal system can be.

  • @SamEy3Am
    @SamEy3Am 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I just wanted to drop by and personally thank you for challenging the way that I think. I have previously been brought to the brink of anger by your videos, but only because I wasn't willing to challenge what my own instincts were telling me HAD to be true. This video did not do that with me, since watching previously has opened my mind to thinking critically and in a way that mirrors reality. Keep up the amazing work! I know I deeply appreciate it.
    TL;DR - Thanks Kevin! 😀

  • @QuartzChrysalis
    @QuartzChrysalis 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    "Your kid isn't sick, the sickness detection box is lying." -NHS

  • @theBATgoesUPoh
    @theBATgoesUPoh 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Things like this are what I point to when people ask what practical application math has. Great work as always, Kevin!

    • @Vsauce2
      @Vsauce2  3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Thanks, shotbot! And yes, this is a great example of how something seemingly-academic is extremely real, and with serious consequences. They're hard to come by.

  • @anant_singh
    @anant_singh 3 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    I really like the new production quality.
    Also, would love to see more such tragic stories, may be start a series for the same ?

    • @Vsauce2
      @Vsauce2  3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      Thanks, Anant -- John Swan did a great job editing. And a series isn't a bad idea...

  • @BrickTsar
    @BrickTsar 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Excellent video Kevin. This is so important to understand. Thanks for making this. People just don’t get it most of the time

  • @TheCatAteMyShoe
    @TheCatAteMyShoe 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I wonder if her family got any compensation from this. The judicial system put her in her grave, they should be aware of that. A man is now without a wife and a child without a mother. That is the real tragedy.

  • @xenosbreed
    @xenosbreed 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Amazing video, actually had me tearing up by the end, no wait its full blown crying. This is why I love science, sociology, and psychology so much, the intersection in how these worlds collide is so amazing, it effects our every day lives in mundane ways... but also in horrifically tragic ways.

  • @ZentaBon
    @ZentaBon 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    This video is a great argument in favor of math class. To prevent cases like this, as the populous can be equipped to identify it instead of falling for it.

    • @Vsauce2
      @Vsauce2  3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Everyone has to know the basics. Everyone.

  • @EndiXIV
    @EndiXIV 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    I think it's interesting that, even if the 73,000,000 number was accurate, with a population of 7.3 billion, that means there's about 100 people that it would happen to. SOMEONES gotta be in that 100

  • @EverythingIsLit
    @EverythingIsLit 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    While it's always fun to ponder the hypothetical, I'm really glad this video dives into the real life impact that math and science have

  • @camerongordon5879
    @camerongordon5879 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    This is so sad. I can't imagine what it would be like to go through something like that. Thanks for the educational insight.

  • @mithinthegamer69
    @mithinthegamer69 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    the fact that he replies to all comments .... what a legend

  • @ImNotACatLawyerButIPlayOneOnTV
    @ImNotACatLawyerButIPlayOneOnTV 3 ปีที่แล้ว +16

    I remember this story. Imagine your kide having a predisposition to dying and you getting blamed for it

    • @Vsauce2
      @Vsauce2  3 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      This has to be one of the worst possible things to put on someone's mind. And then... twice. Unfathomable pain.

  • @RomoMalo
    @RomoMalo 3 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    WE NEED MORE real life scenario videos like this one

    • @Vsauce2
      @Vsauce2  3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      PERHAPS YOU WILL HAVE MORE.

  • @rakill4883
    @rakill4883 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Just got to know TH-cam demonetized this video. Here to say please keep making this kind of content. 👍🏻

  • @AwesomeAngryBiker
    @AwesomeAngryBiker 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Between the closing music and Kevins line about Sally Clarke prob being alive today is hearty breaking

  • @seanmccann1961
    @seanmccann1961 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    This stuff NEEDS to be talked about and the creator NEEDS to be paid for his work that we all enjoyed.

  • @bluefeye
    @bluefeye ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Am I missing something? Why was the mother charged and convicted instead of her husband? What made the husband innocent and not suspicious of being involved in the death like his partner?

  • @GlorifiedGremlin
    @GlorifiedGremlin 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    I can't believe this was demonitized. This is an amazing well done video that does nothing but lay out facts of a popular case. Wtf is controversial about clearly proven facts?

  • @geoffist
    @geoffist 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    this makes your already amazing videos even more practical. love it. keep this up!

    • @Vsauce2
      @Vsauce2  3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Thank youuuu, lastoneout! Keep an eye out for more. :)

  • @sandraviknander7898
    @sandraviknander7898 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Powerful video Kevin! This is the sort of trails you would read about in one Kafka books. This is also the reason all lawyers and judges should have training in statistics.

  • @josealejandrorodriguez3818
    @josealejandrorodriguez3818 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    A wonderful video that brought tears to my eyes as a math teacher. Thank you so much for this