Engine Failure at 400 feet. The Impossible Turn.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ก.ย. 2024
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HUGE thanks to Robert for agreeing to interview! That was great! Thanks Dan as always for your amazing work.
I'll never fly a plane but I learned a lot in this video. I take a boat out into the ocean and do a pre launch check list like a pilot. I consider the depth and vastness just as dangerous if something happens out there. Thanks so much!
Dan, have you ever flown in a glider? The situational awareness it gives you is priceless. As a glider pilot, I transitioned to airplane, and soloed in little over 5 hours.
I had 5 engine fails, 3 fires and one bird in 45 years of aviation. Landed without a scratch every time. Every takeoff, I am planning to turn upwind if engine fails, and sit there wondering how this bucket of bolts will crap out now. The rest of the flight I fly high, and look for places to land always. I tell people, if you think you are flying a plane, you are deluding yourself. You are flying a very bad glider with a drag overcoming device. If you don't believe me, you will when drag overcoming device stops abruptly.
As an A&P, I know where the potential issues are, but nothin can help you predict a connecting rod, or a valve just unceremoniously giving out. That is where training and knowing your plane is critical.
As having glider experience, my instructor illustrated during a winch launch, if cable breaks below a couple hundred feet, can land ahead; if below around six hundred feet, can do a 180 and land back; above that, a low tight circuit and land - the point was, you're never without pre-planned options.
Helicopter flying is good too, for keeping an eye out for possible landing spots.
I'm totally on board with Dan's AQP push and I agree with everything you just said in your comment. And everything you're saying and everything Dan is pushing should be top priority to a GA pilot/aviator. What I'm calling for in addition to those things, is a COLLECTIVE push to actually solve the problem. As much as I hate "mandates" in most cases, I'd like to see airports create designated cleared areas where if a GA engine quits on takeoff, the pilot can go direct to the spot and avoid the 180 turns. Of course the FAA would have to get involved and the city involved too. But it happens EVERY time !! When a new airport is built, it's ALWAYS out in the middle of nowhere. So for perhaps the first 30 years, there are ample spots to put the aircraft down. But then one day you wake up, and the airport is surrounded by houses, shopping malls, schools, stadiums, concrete, cranes, powerlines, ect ect. Well, my feeling is, since the airport was there FIRST, there should be no problem with creating a designated emergency landing spot, and as much as I don't like Eminent Domain, I don't have a problem with it in this case, because NOT crashing into a building is absolutely for the common good. The other thing we need to collectively push is the powerplant itself. As an example, the Dyna Cam engine {an engine with 50% of the moving parts as a "conventional" engine} was literally APPROVED by the FAA and tested on a Piper Arrow in the 1990's and passed with "flying" colors. Yet here it is 2023, and there are no Dyna Cam powered aircraft {except possibly that Piper Arrow}. So there's one thing "we" could be pursuing. The other is some kind of emergency backup system. My idea is use a conventional engine with a solid crank {you get rid of the CS prop where aplicable} and it's connected to a "thrust bearing box" {not a gearbox, unless it's a Rotax}. The "box" is set up like a manual transmission clutch on a car. 99% of the time, the clutch remains engaged and a lever in the cockpit you can disengage it. Connected to the output shaft are a set of pulleys driven by dual belts which are driven by pulleys directly attached to an electric torque motor via a centrifugal clutch. So let's apply my idea to Robert's situation. On takeoff, Robert sets the power, 80 HP from the O200 and 20 HP from the electric. The O200 is driving the prop through the engaged clutch and the electric torque motor is driving the prop through the centrifugal clutch {because the electric motor is turning}. So Robert takes off and starts the climb and at 400 feet BAM !! the O200 is rendered useless. The torque motor experiences more a of a load and through circuitry, sounds a MAIN ENGINE FAILED ALARM and the immediate action is disengage the mechanical clutch. So Robert hears "BAM !!" then MAIN ENGINE FAILED BELL and immediately pitches as required for best flying speed, then immediately disengages the main engine via the clutch handle - it would be spring loaded with a lock detent. NOW the prop is unconnected to the failed engine. Then Robert would push the electric throttle up to the full 100 HP and continue to do a normal climb. Then Robert would pull the mixture handle and turn off the fuel on the selector valve since he's now fully electric. The battery which are in the wing tips, can supply 20 minutes of emergency power, so there's plenty of electrical energy to do a normal climb and do a normal landing. Robert will still declare an emergency because he may have the ability for one, maybe 2 go arounds if needed. But what Robert does NOT have to do are steep banked turns close to the ground. - But look, I think it's just beyond ridiculous to continue with this idea that we just have to accept the notion that if you lose an engine, your only option is going down. This is 2023 and we can figure SOMETHING out. Like I said earlier, at the very least, airports need designated clear spots just off the runways. But I can't do it alone - this has to be a collective effort - don't sit around and wait for the FAA to do anything about it because if they haven't done anything by now, they NEVER intend to.
@@mustardseedsociety Government is the worst way to do anything. Everything they touch turns to crap.
@@KutWrite Well I tell you what, you're PREACHING TO THE CHOIR !! But I have found when it comes to aviators, they are perhaps some of the most brainwashed people on the planet. On one hand, most are incredibly super duper smart and that's why they have achieved a high level of success as an aviator and to that I totally tip my cap. HOWEVER, on the other hand, many {NOT ALL} but many are as dumb as rocks in other areas. As an example, according to Josh Yoder, 80% of airline pilots took the "sleever". How can people who are so smart as aviators, be so stupid as lab rats ?? I don't get it. That's why in my efforts to create a freedom and liberty aviation network, I 'm pretty much done with reaching out to current aviators because the vast majority I've run into are brainwashed robots as well as mister know it alls. You certainly can't have a REAL out the box thinking revolutionary discussion with them because most are like zombies cut from cookie cutters. So, because of that, I literally have to invent ways to introduce any out of the box solution because most get so offended and triggered. Especially those that are former military. They'll accuse you of being "against America" and I be like, OK whatever dude, have a nice day mister I know everything about everything. But I totally appreciate you for saying what needed to be said - you just spoke the truth and I thank you for it.
OK, tell me to shut up if you need to. But guys, why are people so against Dan😢
He is promoting the training I know, in South Africa we have a British based training curriculum. Maybe that is the difference. It includes most of Dan's AQP scenarios. Stall/spin in the pattern is almost unknown in South Africa. Of course we have a rectangular pattern, and on the straight stretches, particularly Base and Final it gives time to do speed checks, flap settings and trimming before turning to finals through 90 degrees . WITHOUT your senses being occupied for a smooth half circle turn from downwind to final as it appears the practice is in videos from US pilots. A nd YES, our pattern (circuit as we call it) is more precisely trained from day 1 than what appears to be the case in the USA. Speed MMS is drummed into your mind I did my initial training in 1982.
Training has to become reflexive. No thought required. There is no time to think about what to do. This guy is alive because he reflexively pushed forward. He is a goldmine of experience. Excellent interview Dan!
Exactly, his 30yrs experience sure helped him fly to the crash scene alive. God Bless you Robert for sharing.
Thought is required, then action. You cannot just react without thought.
@@Capt_Ron reflex is an automatic reaction to an unexpected occurrence. Like putting your hand to your face when you sneeze.
If you have to take time to think, you’ll react too slowly.
Funny, as a Captain for a major US airline, (38 years experience) and having trained hundreds of crews over a 17 year period, it’s not what I have observed. Guys that react before they think are usually dangerous or cause a less than desirable outcome. I agree with you that some things needs to happen without a 1/2 second thought, for example, pushing the yoke forward on climb out after a sudden engine fail. But even in that case there is time spent determining what just happened and then acting.
@@Capt_Ron You may be confusing the two areas. Panic reacting without thought can cause a guy to shut down the wrong engine, or to disable a GCU that can't be restored. "Conditioning" on the other hand, has to do with making a human being an "Airman" where the controls are connected to his or her appendages, and the proper control response is intuitive because they are airmen, and can put in the correct rudder, aileron, or elevator deflection properly and in real time void of the shock and surprise delay. It's the same "reaction" that you see when driving. If a car crosses a lane and is headed towards you, you react without thinking and steer more towards the ditch to avoid the head on. There is zero thought process in that time of crisis, you just see and avoid and there is no time to be slow about it. See the difference?
This pilot is a delight. I'd love to spend hours hangar flying with him. He's accumulated a lot of wisdom over the years, and is not too proud to allow that he may have done better, and what was working in his favor. He just seems so pleasant to talk with. Someone who knows how to listen as well as speak.
So well said, thank you!
Anyone who tries turning back to the runway in a simulator will soon discover that two turns are needed. After the 180 is complete, the plane is not pointed towards the runway. A second turn is needed, and then aileron input to level the wings. As the video described, the strong crosswind was definitely in Robert's favor.
Practice turning back at altitude to figure out your expected altitude loss. You don't have to land on a runway. Take a taxiway, another runway, the ramp, or even the grassy infield. All are preferable to a housing project, a shopping mall, or the trees. Turn around right away. You can talk later. Great job, Mr. Airman. Thanks for promoting AQP, Dan. Barry Schiff's son has been studying this and he's found some "impossible turns" are actually quite possible.
My sentiments entirely!!
You don't have to land on the runway. You can land across it if insufficient height.
Ploughing through fences or runway lights and equipment etc ain't going to kill you.
Spinning in WILL
So the airspeed & keep those wings level close to the ground.
"Airspeed" should be the end of every conversation amongst pilots. I love this gentleman and thanks for sharing this with us Dan.
"Put parachutes on the airframe of every plane" should be the beginning and end of every conversation that a pilot has, with every single person they converse with until it happens. When that starts being a thing thst happens only then will I beleive anyone actually cares about safety. You can train until you turn blue but human nature in emergency situations will always have a possibility of disaster. Put chutes on the damn planes. It might not fix everything but it will go a long way towards making aviation safer, and every single pilot in the word should be very, very very loud about it. If every single commercial pilot in just the US alone said "I'm not going to fly anymore after x date if this is not done by then". Manufactures would certainly start looking into it more seriously.
That Advice is great, Airspeed is life! I grew up around my father's feet in General Aviation. He had 18,000 hours over 35 years and even got to fly Jimmy Carter out of PDK to several Habitat for Humanity house projects around the country. I learned a lot and I always heard Airspeed is Life!
@@thatguy7085 In retrospect, considering what we just survived, Carter wasn't a bad president at all. He achieved peach in the mid east, and many other accomplishments. The energy crisis and Iranian hostage crisis wasn't due to him being "too nice". And it's a fact that the ayatollahs purposely waited to release the hostages until Reagan was sworn in, just to spite Carter.
Altitude is life.
Congratulations Robert. I had a similar incident that happened to me in 1977 in a C-150. I took off from Earlton CYXR on runway 16 in the middle of winter. There was a good headwind from the southeast. At approximately 400 to 500 feet, I had a complete sudden lost of power. Not wanting to land straight ahead in a field with three feet of snow, and damage the aircraft, I did something very stupid in deciding to attempt a quick 180 turn. I figured if I did a steep turn at low speed without stalling, I would be able to turn on a dime. Well, it did not work out as planned. In the turn, I could not see where I was going as the wing was in the way. All that I could see in my left window was the snow covered ground approaching at an alarming rate. I then decided to level the wings to see where I was going. Before I even had time to level the wings, I touched down nose high with no clue as to where I was. I had done a 180 and touched down about 400 feet east of runway 34. Incredibly, I happened to land on the button of runway 07 heading north towards the 300 feet long taxiway that leads to the runway. I had to apply full left rudder to avoid hitting parked aircrafts beside the taxiway, then full braking and full right rudder to avoid hitting the radio operator’s building. I then continued rolling on the taxiway and with the speed I had, I was able to roll the aircraft in the hangar with a stopped propeller. It is nothing short of a miracle that I survived this stupid manoeuvre. The lesson for me was that I endangered my life or worse I could have killed someone just to avoid damaging an aircraft. Every situation is different but generally it is better to land straight ahead in a controlled touchdown at a slow but safe speed and stay alive.
I remember reading about this in the paper....but you forgot about the part where you hit the gas pumps, your cap popped off, the pump turned on, the nozzle fell into the tank and topped off you tank on the way to the hangar allowing you a 5 minute turn around time to still get to Vegas on schedule.
@@CFITOMAHAWK2 ya think?
Not mentioned much in this vid. was the fact that the engine was still generating some power with three cylinders. As I understand it, there was not COMPLETE loss of power. This probably allowed the 180 degree turn that may not have worked out as well with a completely dead engine.
True.
Yep, huge difference in some power and a windmilling prop creating drag
Was about to say the same thing, and it's probably not that rare for an engine failure to still leave you with some power. That's actually more insidious than a clear-cut engine failure because it might cause a delay in remedial action.
Yes and PARTIAL power loss on takeoff is yet another thing that the FAA private pilot curriculum doesn’t teach us about! Question - in the scenario in the video, should you leave the throttle in to get what power you can, or is there too much danger the engine will shake itself off the mount?
@@crufflerdoug Yes, wish the FAA required teaching about partial power loss. I'd keep the power up to make the airport and ignore the vibration.
Happened to me twice...stuck open exhaust valve. Once with my instructor on board, once several year later with a passenger.
Thanks to him showing me how to handle it, I was able to react when the chips were down. Thanks Paul D.
Great video. Glad he made it around. During take off brief I like to cover 4 points:
1) malfunctions before rotation
2) malfunctions after rotation with runway remaining
3) malfunctions after rotation below TPA
4) malfunctions after rotation above TPA
And a plan of action for each of those. Keep your airspeed!
It’s unbelievable that the FAA doesn’t require AQP type training. In all of my military flying and instructing emergency procedure training was rarely pre-announced. Imagine taking off in a twin engine helicopter from a tight confined area without single engine hover capability and just as you clear the trees, your instructor pulls an engine to ground idle. Training that scenario allowed me to pass my instructor check-ride, and taught me the importance of AQP type training.
Actually Joseph, it's not surprising at all!
As with the recreational Marine industry, the lobbyists fight against making it so onerous to use the product, that adverage people won't bother!
While the resulting mishaps on the water aren't usually as dramatic as those in the air, lives are still lost on a regular basis.
Oh well...another used boat/plane off the market!
Hate to be so cynical, but greed is the human condition!
My CFII would pull power and NEVER announced it.
He’d look over at me and ask … “whatcha gonna do?” I would then verbally and physically go through procedures he taught me.
I appreciate that to this day.
Thank you nick for agreeing to talk openly. He could save many lives decades in the future.
Very good I really enjoyed this video I was one of the lucky students to have an instructor that not only taught me awareness from the beginning, he also tested me on all kinds of unlikely events that could happen and I was so good at feeling, listening, motion, that I almost didn't pass my private check ride because the FAA examiner swore I was looking under the hood at the instruments and recovered too quickly after we landed he had to call my instructor and had a long conversation with him and not only did I pass the check ride we went back up and I explained how I did it as we went into different attitudes hats off to you Bob Heare the best instructor I have ever flown with. 1980 Fullerton, Calif Always be ready and remember there are old pilots and there are bold pilots but there aren't any old bold pilots.
wow
I remember that during my flying training, EFATO was practiced frequently. That below 1000ft you should fly straight ahead and not try to turn back. However I do not recall anyone saying to me to fly directly INTO the wind, if you have a significant crosswind takeoff. It sounds so obvious sitting here in my living room. But would I have been able to think that as a student pilot under training. I think NOT.
Thank you for your great work.
Dan the look on your face is priceless when walkie talkie man comes up like who what and how are you all sitting in the restricted area. Oh man. Thank you for the interview.
I guess that dude didn't realize you were doing an interview but thru the magic of editing he just disappeared, I thought that was freaking funny.
Robert's dad was prophetic - keep your air speed! And, his checklist "Fly the plane" as opposed to stalling or spinning the plane. The farthest distance you can glide without power is to maintain max L/D airspeed - keep the nose lowered, but not too much, not too fast. In Air Force pilot training we were always thinking and training for an emergency and memorizing check lists. Save pulling back on the stick for the landing flare.
If you want to go down push forward. If you want to go down faster pull back.
@@edwardhobelman6296v.good axiom
When I learned to fly back in the 80's my instructor use to pull the throttle back on takeoff and we would practice 180 back to runway.
It was great training.
Thanks Robert for the interview
I’m merely a 70 yr old MSFS “pilot” and I can’t tell you how much I’ve learned from these videos . Roberts honesty and integrity is priceless and his generosity in sharing this experience tells you everything you need to know about him. Thanks!
I think this old pilot was cold enough to fly his Cessna within its flight envelope. when the engine quited he was 400 feet high, he inmediatelly unloaded the wing, and didn't overturn the bank angle. The plane was light and the proximity of the parallel runway helped a lot.
@@CFITOMAHAWK2 That's a good point. Nothing far from the real facts: he managed to trade altitude for speed; made a coordinated turn without compromising aerodynamic flow through the (inner) wing. When I say "He unloaded the wing" it means that by pulling the yoke slightly forward, he certainly achieved "0" G-You can't stall a wing at "0" G-. Managing the startle factor is paramount during this critical part of the flight. Many pilots don't fly to the crash; they just crash.
Without a doubt, Dan is running a very good campaign to avoid spins after an unexpected upset at takeoff.
glider instructors do a pretty good job of preparing students for "abnormal". We teach be prepared for launch emergencies, train spins...
What a great guy, for many reasons. The fact that he doesn't mind being critiqued on how he worked through the emergency for the greater good and helping others out there god forbid who might watch this and end up in the same situation just shows what a (as we say in England) a true gent he is! And thanks to you both for creating this potentially life saving video. edit: hopefully everyone doesn't see part of this interview as Dan laying into Robert and criticising him personally, he's drawing out the habits we as humans have, complacency, desensitisation and sometimes a bit of hubris. Driving is nothing like flying but it's similar in that when some idiot is barrelling down the motorway/highway at 120mph, takes one truck, car or obstacle to ruin your day.
The comment about pulling back reminds of what my brother, a USAF pilot, former Beech IP, and CFI, always says:
"If you pull back, the houses get smaller. If you keep pulling back, they get larger again, and fast."
You might like it that he flew the EC-47 in Vietnam, Dan, and came back to fly "Kilroy" in airshows for a few years.
He can still recite all of the intricacies of a C-47 from heart.
My dear friend Lonnie had the same exact scenario occur to him in a C150, and he was at 400’ climbing out on 4 at LQK. The top of the rocker assembly casting broke off and left the rockers laying inside the valve cover. He too had a good left crosswind which he turned into and teardrop back to the runway and made it with just a loss of a wheel pant and a landing light, approaching the runway on a slight diagonal. Very lucky day for him as a student pilot. He kissed the tarmac when he got out.
Thank you both! I don't can't fly anymore, but I can live my life vicariously through your adventures!
One thing you guys didn't mention is that there were. 2 parallel runways which gave Robert a better chance not to have to make the last s-turn you need to do to return to the take off runway.
What did MR. WALKIE TALKIE want???? 😂😂😂
These interviews ARE EXTREMELY VALUABLE! Wonderful to hear this story! Thanks Dan, KEEP IT UP!
*** AIRSPEED ***
My ultralight instructor was a religious man. But he told me right from the start “Airspeed is God”
I obtained my PPL, CPL and Instructor Rating in New Zealand in the mid 70's.
At every level we had to demonstrate a forced landing due to engine failure after takeoff down to 200 feet AGL.
@@robinmccarthy9435I’m interested but unfortunately not familiar with aircraft specifically training for ppl for example, do you know if anything like this is still common practice or is the standard a higher altitude forced landing perhaps?
Great to see another one that ended WELL! 👍 His story about his WWII Veteran dad saying, “airspeed” to him made me tear up a little - that saved his life!! 👍😎👍
Looks like he was still above the runway at 400' - which also helped for sure! Nicely handled sir
I'm in the UK. No way a student could do their first solo until they had EFATO procedures drummed into them. My instructor used to close the throttle at 300' and say what are you going to do?
I was always glad when the engine revved up again after I had pushed the nose down and said landing there!
I can't believe that the FAA training does not include anything for loss of power - on take off or any other time. Surely it must be in there???
There was another pilot that survived the turn of death recently. He received his pilot's license within the last 3 months. He purchased a Comanche 250 (59) and got checked out in it by a really good instructor, who trained him in all the things that Dan is advocating for. He took off from Auburn and lost power climbing out (tank selector switch sucking air). Could not maintain altitude. Pushed in on yoke, made the 180, declared an emergency, and made a controlled landing at about 130 knots. He got it stopped with 50 ft. to spare. Flat spotted the tires to the cords though. His new name is now Skidsworth. $1500 for tires and thorough inspection.
Another 5 * interview by Dan! I'm not a pilot, but if I was ever a passenger and the pilot had a medical emergency. I'm confident with help from the air traffic controller, combined with what Dan has taught me, I would have a positive outcome. Mayday, Mayday, Mayday, complete engine failure, we are descending. I'm not a pilot and I'm declaring an emergency. My pilot has had a medical emergency. My location is, roll fire, a ambulance, EMTs, and Police as we are going down fast at low altitude. Best area to land, avoid the impossible turn at all costs, avoid highways, power lines and trees; look for a cornfield :), wheels up, wings level, power back, adjust flaps, minimum safe airspeed, slight flare for the impressive landing. Donate to Dan's animal rescue!
🤙😁
Naw you die
Wow, pilot having a medical emergency and the plane a complete engine failure simultaneously! That'd be quite the challenge for any non-pilot.
love the comment 'fly the plane' and 'I got complacent' a lovely man with little ego. this video is so worthwhile for all flyers.
Great stuff! Thank you for sharing!!! Glad things went well! I like your father's words of wisdom "Airspeed"!
Awesome channel Dan.. Fabulous Content.. Keep'em Flying 👍✌🇨🇦
Not to diminish the pilot's ability in any way of course, but this case was not quite the "impossible turn" scenario for two reasons. One, the engine didn't actually quit (it "ran rough") so it did provide at least some power helping in some measure to maintain airspeed. And second, he landed on the parallel runway, which is a much easier maneuver, involves less turns and loses less altitude than turning back to the exact runway from where the take-off was done. Great job nonetheless, we could all learn from his experience. Great inverview too.
"Airspeed"... his Dad saved his life!
great video. You realize these accidents involve people, nice, professional people. Makes me think about all the nice professional people in most of your videos who you haven't had the opportunity to talk to.
Good situational awareness knowing where the wind was coming from and turning into the wind to stay close to the runway. The radio procedures were god in that you told them what you were going to instead of waiting for their instructions. The first transmission was a little long. I always instructed my students in a similar situation to maintain control of the aircraft, pitch to best glide speed then say to the tower, “Cessna 1234 engine failure declaring an emergency.” And the throw the microphone (or headset on the floor as far away from you as you can and then take whatever action you deem necessary. That was great advice from your Dad. Excellent job and great interview.
“Airspeed” is now my default answer to any question I get.
I had an engine failure in a Mooney 231 immediately when I raised the gear. I don’t know how high I was but it was most certainly lower than 400’. One thing to keep in mind BEFORE takeoff is the wind direction. If you have any crosswind at all you’ll have a smaller turn radius into the wind. It’s the same reason that you never turn towards the hill when ridge soaring.
I don't fly. (But I did have an engine blow up once at rush hour on the I-5, so I know a good day can go bad in an instant.) This was a great interview and Robert and his Dad are are top-notch teachers, too, along with Dan. Thanks.
I used to fly gliders here in Australia. Particularly with winch launch, "airspeed" is hammered into trainee pilots to the extent that on every pre-takeoff checks every pilot must rehearse cable break scenarios in detail, including knowing and reciting out loud vs, vs1.3 and vs1.5 of each particular aircraft You must know wind direction and windspeed and proposed direction of turn if the cable breaks and you can fit in a modified circuit. It is a very comprehensive, rigorous and comfortable, so when the inevitable happens at any altitude you just slip into the well rehearsed process without thinking or startle .... "stick forward, vs1.3, then make your decision as to whether you land straight ahead or fly a circuit. I am incredibly grateful for those instructors who took us through this.
I have had several swallowed valves in my 56 years of flying. A piece of the hard steel exhaust valve breaks loose and is hammering away at the aluminum piston top. The valve either wins the struggle and either puts a hole in the piston(worst) or is ejected out the exhaust pipe(best). In a 4 cylinder if it ejects the piece the engine does just like Dan says. Immediately rough but you still have enough power to barely maintain altitude. I flew one time for 10 minutes in a 200hp Musketeer. In 6 cylinders its a little better and in radials its just a small miss . However when you pull the throttle back be ready to land and you will hear some backfiring. Great job Dan and Dan.
What a great and informative presentation, AQP is absolutely necessary, my father practice all scenarios all the time, he flew for nearly 40 years and helped others, level the wings and watch your airspeed, its in my brain and I'm not a pilot, thanks Dan.
Dan the old guy did good because he still had some sort of power and he knew his flying abilities, with 3000hr in a 150 he knows and still having 3 jugs banging around before a total lockup. That’s experience for you, great job. Mike from AZ
Flown for over 30 years and been lucky. But anytime you can walk away from an emergency it’s great! Thank you so much for your information.
He got lucky. Looking at the picture, he didn't have a lot of options for putting it down straight ahead, and that crosswind saved his life. It was ALL about airspeed. Thankfully, the engine was still turning. If that prop had been standing still, we would be at a funeral for two right now.
Super nice interview. Very recognisable for my self. Airspeed is every thing I always tolled my students. “Airspeed” I use to say a lot when instructing as Robert’s dad did. Now I mad an impossible turn too. But this after an approach to a EMG landing that failed. It’s a long story. But my impossible turn saved me although I wrecked my plane beyond repair. Fly the plane until its stopped . Thanks for sharing Dan and Robert.
Ps: when I had my FAA check ride the FAA examiner said “ you did well , congratulations, Keep in mind that you have a licence to fly a plane but realise we ( flight schools ) don’t give a perfect training, so the big lesson begins now” .
I wish we could have heard how quickly he started the turn back. He said he reflexively pushed the nose down immediately but did he also initiate the turn immediately? The audio is a little painful to listen to because of the amount of time ticking by as he communicates to the tower his situation and intentions. I'm thinking as I'm listening to it that he is communicating everything first and then initiating the turn after the communication which seems to take forever. I hope he immediately pushed forward and started the turn while monitoring air speed and then got on the radio to communicate his emergency and intentions. It took him 10 seconds on the radio to get to " I'm doing a 180..." and then Dan cuts off the recording...he might have talked another 5 or 10 seconds easily. I'll just assume he was multi-tasking, talking and turning and monitoring instruments but in these 180 scenarios, 2 or 3 seconds of time are priceless and usually the difference between life and death. Another take away on this should be Aviate - Navigate - Communicate. All that time communicating did nothing to save his butt, it's a nice to have if you have lot's of time but in this scenario I'm not wasting even a second of time or my brain focus on anything but getting the plane to the ground safely which is going to happen very quickly at 400 feet with a 180 turn. Another thing to keep in mind is the pilot was estimating his altitude and he might have guessed low with all that time he had to chat. When losing an engine and power in an instant during takeoff, the reflex to lower the nose should be followed by check Altimeter having a Go/No-Go number already figured out in your head re: making the turn or going straight ahead picking the least bad landing spot.
As you say it's a judgement call about picking the least bad spot. My instructor showed me a 180 landing before I soloed and before I knew it was impossible. Simply nose down, dump flaps, maintain airspeed above stall, rotate 180 if you have 400 to 500 ft and straight ahead if you don't. I'd practice it at safe altitude. A C-150 with full flaps and nose down attitude will save you if you have altitude for a 180 or some clear space ahead.
Dan, you know that airport. If he doesn’t turn 180 his only other option is to land on I-85 south, and good luck with that. He lucked out with the wind direction but I can’t say I would have tried anything differently given the surroundings.
Your dad , even though he isn't with you anymore, helped save both of your lives that day .
Training! Period! Just practice it endlessly! You should have instant push reflex.
It is great to see and hear a real success story.
There are far too many of the others....
And remember, around PDK, there are no other places to land your plane...
Great information as always cause and effect..
Outstanding lesson Dan!!! This short, straight survival sums up your mission on your channel. 🎶”Staying Alive” 🎶. Godspeed 🛫🛬
Dan your time involved in what you do is worth gold and you have inadvertently. saved more than one life . Kudos to you
I met a WW2 pilot years ago and his words were “ velocity is life“ must have been impressed into those pilots to more or less hear the same words from his father…
We always did 400 ft engine pulls on take off during BFRs. We always made our turns back and landed. I wasn't aware that it was an "Impossible " because it was a common practicefor us to do. During tailwheel training would do 24 250ft dead stick landings in an hour. Made for alot of confidence.
Just shared with my son, who is a student pilot. Thanks, guys.
Always makes me happy to hear about the ones that make it! Seems like a heck of a good guy. Thanks for sharing Dan!
Just looking at the aerial view of the runway, other than a turn back, I wonder where the pilot would have decided to approach and land. Very much a built up area. Maybe the highway? Guess we'll never know. Great outcome and great interview.
Keep the stick forward, nose down, and turn gradually.
Hi Dan
Great video
I was lucky to be trained in fixed wing aircraft by a Vietnam war veteran who flew Cobra and Huey helicopters. He taught me all the scenarios before I took my PPL single engine. Airspeed & fly the plane all the way to the ground was also something he said during every training session.
I did have a total engine failure flying an Aeronca Champ in the pattern and elected to land off the air field in a location I felt I had a higher chance of survival.
He had drilled into me the importance of always thinking about. “ when your engine fails where will you land. The best location might be behind you. Always look for landing spots”
Slangevar
Craig
Thanks Robert for allowing Dan to show this video.
I love it when you interview someone who made it through..Pricesless info. much love Dan 💕
What a great interview for it highlights what you have been saying for the past year.
Bought back memories of my c182 engine failure on take off at Townsville Australia several years ago. One of the things I remember in my turn back was the sound of the stall horn in my ears. Instead of landing in a crock infested swamp and missing the ndb tower by inches I landed safely back on the take off runway the other way. Cause, oversized fuel bladder in wings trapping a lot of water in fuel tank. Cessna went to wet wings on the new 182 I flew after.
Barry Hill.
Hi Dan, a thought just popped in my brain, we are taught defensive driving as a normal course of getting a drivers license, what your videos advocate for is defensive flying. As a father my forearm hairs stood up when Robert said his dad always said air speed, he was literally trying to keep him alive as all fathers do mentioning the salient points to remember when things get tuff. Awesome stuff!
I used to try engine out in MS Flight Simulator with the Cessna. It seemed to me that you needed 400 feet to make the 180 turn with power out. I thought that might be why they have you turn once you have 400 feet on climb out. You had to lower the nose and start turning as soon as possible. Doing it in the simulator takes the stress out trying it. Good job!
My instructor had a surprise every flight. I became conditioned to assume something would happen, and if not it was going to sooner or later. I landed in simulated dead stick all the time, he cut fuel during maneuvers simulating engine failure during climb, turns, landing etc. He had experienced a engine fail on takeoff with a loaded aircraft near max weight. He landed and learned a ton. He would not allow his students to experience the same without some tools to handle it. He also drilled into me...airspeed!!!! Obviously this is correct advice.
It also helped that the engine was generating partial power.
I had a valve break in a Twin Comanche once. The little 4 cylinder ran very rough, but it ran!
WOW Dan spot on as always. Love the AQP vs FAA approach to training. I recall as a fresh trainee with about 8 hours having the flying school owner pulling the throttle at about 500 ft on takeoff. This was not even on my mental radar as a reality! He rapidly talked me through live on what to do and we "aborted the emergency landing" at about 50 ft with ortunately a decending landscape at the chosen site. MAN, did that give me a reality check while still a chicken pilot! WHY IS THIS NOT PART OF TRAINING TODAY? I think that complacency due to an improvement in engine reliability in the 80s and 90s led to the ball being dropped. Younger instructors are too scared to do this training!
Never stop training and evolving your training.
My Dad learned to fly in WWII, just like Roberts. When I started flying as a 30-year old, he said Airspeed! Airspeed! Airspeed! every time I flew. I have passed that on to my USAF son, who now flies for the airlines. Whenever we part, instead of Good-by, we say Airspeed! Airspeed! Airspeed! (Angle of Attack! Angle of Attack! just doesn't have the same ring to it LOL!)
Airspeed- love it! I tell my students that airspeed is their best friend or worst enemy. Make it your best friend.
We were always taught to do an emergency briefing before every flight, so that it is at the fore front of your mind as you take off. I now make my students do the same.
Another fascinating video. Thanks. I learn lots from them.
He was lucky to fly into the wind. Every time I take off I decide whether to turn left or right depending on the wind if I decide to return. e.g. He turned into the wind which gave him better lift and kept him close to the airport. What is the problem if he had turned to the right. The wind would be a tail wind with reduced lift, he would be losing altitude and and it would push him further away from the runway. When he turned back he would then face a headwind which would it harder to return to the runway. I am an ATP with 3,600 hours and I have an RV6 and can do a 180 in 200'. A great experienced instructor pilot friend showed me a trick.
1) Push the nose down to maintain glide speed.
2) Do a 60° bank (Try 45° to start with) turn whilst lowering the flaps at the same time to full flaps.
3) As you bank back to level flight whist doing it raise the flaps back to 0°. ( This is done with or without using the wind)
I suggest you go and accomplish this maneuver. After this then do the same maneuver to a 270° turn to recreate turning back to your departure runway.
You will have fun trying to reduce altitude loss on each attempt and maybe one day it could save your life.
P.S. I will not attempt the "Impossible Turn" if I am below the TPA. Fly Safe!
The result after a sudden engine malfunction depends on the perception, personal skills, training and experience of each one. That's why during an upset recovery, trained pilots react as if they're in some kind of low motion mode that allows them to react sharply and quickly. This is particularly noticeable in single-engine helicopters: as soon as the r.p.m. of the rotor drops slightly, simply lower the collective and go into autorotation. No time to think!.
Great chat Dan !
Thanks Dan ! And to Robert; thanks for sharing your insights with us. AVIATE, NAVIGATE , Communicate . . . Bob. Animal Rescue supporter . . .
My CFI (training for PPR-Gyro) - late in my training ....did the "surprise" pulling out power on climb-out - pitch forward & land ahead! ( gyros...can land with next to no forwards roll & very steep descent rate!) ...YES ...that first time my startle reaction was to pull-back! ...I got yelled at! - never again! Good lessons!
Thank you!!! Air speed is life!!!
Great episode Dan! Robert was a wonderful guest! This video saves lives!
Marvellous, educational video. Thank you, to both of you gentlemen.
"Airspeed". Yep.
Dan in my later days my instructor one day in the pattern pulled the power and said you just lost the power and said make the runway.. best lesson I ever had and will never forget!
You should have left the security guy in the footage since he voluntarily inserted himself into the video.
like that one " if you want to go up pull back, if you want to go down pull back" thanks for sharing.
lovely video from two gentlemen. my CFI always said 'land on' but i experienced differently with my instructor opting to go round. the closeness to trees caused a definite squeeky arse moment or ten. always plan always think if things go wrong where will i get down safely
I was fortunate in earning my wings in 1962 at NAS Pensacola and the Navy preached airspeed airspeed airspeed.
Instructing in helicopter training I demonstrated 100s of full autorotations with engine fully disingaged all the way to landing.
The student practiced autorotations only down to flare-out where he engaged the engine. Instructing in fixed wing the instructor would announce "simulated engine failure" and the student would pull back the power and glide toward the nearest clearing and plan his approach. I had several forced landings with no injury and only one with aircraft damage. I was also very lucky.
I enjoy hanger flying too. I always gravitate toward the older gentlemen like Robert because they have thousands of hours of experience that they can share with you.
My father a WW2 Marine pilot used to repeat the same thing to me , Airspeed is life. Saved my arse too. Another is engine slowed, drop the nose. Good show Dan!
Great value in your content. Lesson that is not included in basis pilot training. As a retired airline pilot the training was always better in the skills for the unexpected.
So, what's going on at 08:40? Couldn't he see that you were busy?
Well done Robert, thankyou Dan as always... never stop doing what you do...
I love this channel for this exact reason.
Thank you ! My husband is a private pilot. Your videos/info is AWESOME for us Both
I know. Don't tell him that we talk often, he has no idea.