Turning Red: How Disney Deals With Mothers
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ต.ค. 2024
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"Parents aren't always evil, but they are always just people"
This hit hard.
Wish that is was true with my ex sister-in-law, but no, she is a true monster that is beyond repair & won't accept the fact that her daughter is no longer a baby nor admit her faults that she's becoming just as worse as the mother that "abandoned" her.
@@keshiaanders6452 sorry to hear that from you
Except my father that man is pure evil
@@keshiaanders6452 Lol, cope.
"Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes"
I like that Pixar has realized that generational trauma was the true antagonist all along.
It is said mankind's greatest enemy are themselves.
The real villain was the trauma and emotional baggage we got along the way.
Encanto is Disney but yeah, the thing is, making three movies about that and calling it a hit seems lazy tbh, and don't get me wrong, I loved Coco, and enjoyed Encanto and Turning Red, but I don't see the thrill outside representing other cultures. Coming soon: German family with generational trauma discovers generational trauma was the problem and they live happily ever after when working on it
I think they listen to black channels and Black scholars. Generational Trauma was first penned by black people, I think
@@IsThisUsernameAvailable subtly different takes on it, but people like feeling seen.
In a way Disney itself it's working out it's issues with mothers and fathers. Issues that come from Walt himself. It's great that we aren't only moving away from the orphan trope of classical Disney (all the way up to Frozen) but into a full exploration of family dinamics and generacional trauma.
!
itself *is*
out *its* (it's is a shortened version of it is)
*dynamics*
*generational*
Sorry being that guy but I just wanted to correct these because your grammar's actually pretty good.
@@normiewhodrawsonpaper4580 so true besticle
I find it weird how people talk about how "Disney is moving away from" or whatever when the Disney movies from the past weren't truly written by Disney.
It had nothing to do with Disney and his own past. He just animated already existing classic German and French fairy tales.
It seems that people are forgetting that these stories existed and were well known and loved long before Disney animated them.
@@plzleavemealone9660 okay but most of the time it barely followed the original source material. the narratives and tone are completely different from the original stories. disney had a certain way of adapting those stories and choosing to focus on certain elements and not on others, which is slowly changing as time moves forward.
I appreciate that none of these were actually the villain, just people who happened to become an antagonistic figure
To quote Loki,
“No one bad is ever truly bad & no one good is ever truly good.”
Except for De la Cruz, he can choke on a chorizo
Step mothers on the other hand are ALWAYS cast as the villain.
@@AaaaNinja
Unless it’s ‘A Whisker Away’ (a Netflix anime film). The step-mother in that film was surprisingly gentle.
Alma did questionable things. And in another movie she would be a villain more. Because the things that she did are awfully. She contemped her own son, she wanted that Isabela get married with a man that she didn't want marrige, she was cruel with Mirable because she didn't have a gift. Unlike, Mama Imelda or Ming Lee which at least showed up affection with their relatives, Alma saw her relatives as a pawns and she rare care about their feelings. It's not an excuse saying that because Alma was a hurted woman have any justification.
One thing I would also like to point out. Although many people paint Mother Gothel, from Tangled, as a metaphor for an overprotective mother figure, I think that's not the case at all. Gothel looks more like a metaphor for paedophilles, children traffickers, kidnappers, and all people who use and exploit children for their own personal, selfish gain. Sometimes even posing as a good parental figure, but actually only seeing the kid as an object to satisfy their own goals. Gothel is truly a real life villain. Abuela and Ming on the other hand are a way better depiction of actual overbearing mother figures, who are sometimes antagonistic, but not evil.
You’re right. I remember when Gothel found Rapunzel after beating the Stabbington Brothers, her first priority was to check Rapunzel’s hair. I also love how Pixar & Disney develop their philosophical conflict with similar stories but different situations.
Completely agree
Gothel never cared for Rapunzel, any kind words she has are for or about her hair because it’s of worth to Gothel. Rapunzel doesn’t get kind words, she gets platitudes and deferrals, back handed compliments if she’s lucky.
I interpreted Gothel as a narcissistic parent.
This is so true. Or foster parents that just get the kids so they can get money from them. So many horror stories about the foster care system.
Seems like you could make a similar argument about Moana, and that trauma itself was the actual antagonist. Te Ka was just the traumatized version of Te Fiti. Maui stood in Moana's way because of his past trauma, and Moana's father was in the way because of his past trauma. In the story trauma tried to preserve itself and fought its own healing. Te Ka didn't allow her heart to come back, Maui was afraid to risk his broken hook, and the father watched his island die rather than let his daughter attempt to fix it.
thats an amazing way to look at moana holy shit !!!
i never saw it as that bc it was a much broader tone than straight to the point like coco , encanto n turning red , (n also bc i was much younger when i first saw it n i havent rewatched it again)
thats honestly so cool n super cool of you to think of moana that way
I also liked how Grandma was her shelter and let her say that she couldn't do it. That Moana had done enough, let her come to her own realizations. And her Mum just quietly supporting her.
The dad in Encanto saying he was protecting his daughter had that same energy. Loved it and felt very true to life where there aren't always villains per se, but there are flawed people who don't realise the damage they are doing, or don't realize it's worse than what they are 'protecting' you from.
That's pacific islanders for ya mate and what we struggle with to this day. Trauma.
True. No wonder I sobbed at the “This isn’t who you are” bit.
@@carly7522 You forgot Jin from Turning Red.
funny enough i actually HAD a disney style reconciliation with my mom. as a stereotypical asian mom she and i fought a lot (and by that i mean she would tell my dad to whoop my ass), but one night we (after an argument) talked it out, and she is now my greatest supporter and i love her:)
White Moms do the exact same thing!
Cool! I want to talk to my mother about some things but I'm too scared to
Yeah, this will never happen to me for my disgrace i have a latina mother
Wait, those actually happen irl?
As in you try to initiate constructive dialog and it works?
@@matheussanthiago9685 it really depends on chance and how patient or resistant you are to be able to fix it since it's never comfortable
To be fair, Mirabel's mother is a good mother. Julieta is a wonderful mother, and while Tia Pepa has issues with emotional control, her children seemed to love her, too. But Abuela Alma is the one who wanted to control everyone.
Julieta really is best mom in Encanto. She and her husband really do have issues with protecting their daughters from the harmful perfectionism though. They recognize that it's kinda hurtful but try to make up for it by encouraging their daughters rather than speaking up for them. Only after everyone found out about Bruno's vision with Mirabel in it, do they start speaking up against Abuela. When it comes to choosing a side, they won't hesitate to pick their daughters over anything but by that time it's already too late since most of the damage had already been done. With Isabella especially.
Funnily enough Pepa's side of the family protect their kids better than Julieta because the only troublesome person in the family is Pepa herself, so her children seem to fall under the radar. They have the least expectations put on them and while they all have varying levels of issues, they also seem more content with their lives rather than the absolute mess that is Julieta's kids.
@@moony2249 Most theories on Tia Pepa's side speculate that they aren't actually as happy as they could be. Dealing with a mother and a wife who's so emotionally strained, especially with the years of possible sternness her mother put onto her (by always making her believe clear skies are the only good skies/emotions she has to feel for the betterment of everyone else) it makes everyone around her have to essentially be her caretakers. I forgot the terms but i can imagine how that kind of stress affects the kids and how tired Felix gets from being one of Pepa's only source of calm and reasons.
Dolores having to put up with thunderstorms and hearing her mother mutter in an anxious anxiety at a young age probably bothered her alot, especially with her gift. Camilo having to feel like his father, taking care of her almost as constantly as Felix to sooth her. Then Antonio's gift being theorized to be reminiscent of children disassociating from their problems by finding less complicated companions to comfort them.
They might've been saved from direct influence from Abuela like Julieta's side, but the indirect influence from Pepa's unsolved trauma from how her mother treated her still affected them all. At least that's my perception and take on it.
@@moony2249 yea. I love Agustin and Julieta but some stuff they let off wasn't the best. I think most of their focus was on Mirabel that they forget Isa and Luisa. They both needed someone to talk to on how they feel. While yes, Isa and Luisa have their gifts, I do think they should had at least tey to spend some time checking up on them
@@sundalosketch4769 Yeah, that's true. They're also the main ones talking about Bruno in We Don't Talk About Bruno, which MIGHT mean something. (irony.) Idk, I'm not a psychologist.
I love Juliaetta and Agustin, they are such good parents. When the house was crumbling and Alma was yelling at everyone Agustin says “I was thinking of my daughter” and Juliaetta says “Ma you were always too hard on mirabel” and Alma ignores it and try’s changing the subject to pepa and Agustin and Juliaetta change the Subject back to Mirabel. I love them so much, they really care about mirabel.
I am a guy in my mid 20s and I related to this Turning Red and Mei damn there too much, that some scenes hurt my chest and gave me ptsd.
I had (and still do have) an overprotective mom who would used to show up to my school at random and who had a vice grip on my life when I was younger, I come from a (matriarchal led) family with their own bag of generational trauma that isn't addressed, I a over did things in school but it didn't truly make me happy, puberty hit me and it was hell having your body be so different, and so much more. The only thing I am not is (although a poc) Asian, not Canadian, and not female.
But anyone who says Turning red (or any of these movies) move CANT be relatable because of certain things like culture, sex, and or race, is just flat out wrong. They are timeless tales of becoming your own person in the world.
I think everyone is Mei Lee in a way. I just couldn't get over this movie and it's been more than a week since it's come out.
I feel the exact same way and when her mom said sorry it made me cry because I know it'll never happen in my life.
@@seekittycat It's pure and wholesome wish fulfillment. Medicine for the soul.
@@austinpapageorge7210 same. i cried like a baby a multiple points during it and by now I'm sure my family and friends must be annoyed by me constantly urging them to go watch it too. It's a beatiful story that has amazing animation, great character design, and, despite all the cartoony exaggerations, there's something about it that made it insanely immersive to watch. truly some of Pixar's best work.
Turning red portrayed what being a preteen is so well. It’s cringe, it’s goofy, and it’s hard. And I couldn’t help but relate when Mei was hard on herself for every little thing that her mom didn’t approve of.
I don’t think Abuela exiled Bruno, instead Bruno chose to leave to protect his niece and in turn she decided to blame Bruno for leaving them
True. Alma didn't exile Bruno explicitly, but he felt like her perfectionism was the source that drove him away.
And after Bruno left it became known throughout not just the home but the entire community "we don't talk about Bruno." That's because Alma doesn't talk about Bruno, and everyone follows her lead. She "exiled" him in a similar way Hector was "exiled" from his family - by just not being talked about.
But in Encanto it's very telling that everyone is bursting at the seams to talk about Bruno. He had a massive impact on their lives and not talking about him is subconsciously messing with the community as well as his family.
She *unpersoned* him.
I love how they casually work in unpersoning in the catchiest sort of song that is destined to be replayed, and it goes under our heads because it’s a catchy song first (though admittedly a catchy song where people are compelled to point out every single detail).
Aubela kind of used denial to cope. She blamed every other person for whatever was going wrong. And I think the scene with her argument with Mirabel really shows this.
“Bruno left because of you!”
And two seconds later when Mirabel proves this statement incorrect
“Bruno did not care about this family!”
She will make up whatever excuse she needs in order to ignore her own flaws
And she resolves this at the end of the movie(admittedly I feel like she was forgiven too quickly, but they only had so much time to fit that in)
Abuela is just…in denial. And I like that about her character. It’s interesting. I can’t find her likable,(because again she only had like 3 minutes of redemption) but I do think she’s an interesting character
How Pixar made a movie about a movie about a teenager publicly humiliated for her body and desires and it did NOT turn out like Carrie is remarkable. Carrie murders her school. Mei tells you to love yourself at the end. Even the little tykes can see it. OMG I cannot get enough
To be fair, Mei had a much, much better life than Carrie. She had a group of best friends and her mother, while overbearing and strict, also made clear how much she loved her. She also wasn't bullied (much) even if she was mocked at times
@@M4x_P0w3r nah bro this movie triggers ptsd tho. For me. The pixar one. I'm not kidding
It physically hurts to watch Mei cry because she might just be my favorite character of Turning Red.
Break the cycle. Dont pass your trauma. Forgiveness and understanding to you all. I adored Mei Mei’s story And your analysis.
Mei WOULD NEVER.
But don't break it too hard by embracing evil on the far end. The one they warned about. The one they used as justifications
@@revimfadli4666 what
@@austinpapageorge7210 i think what theyre saying is that u should still take ur parents’ words somewhat into account instead of just completely ignoring them. find an in between for yourself
Or just end the cycle itself and just don’t have kids
I think a noticeable trait of generational trauma that Disney/Pixar has been exploring has been how the trauma starts with some strength/power to overcome hardship and becomes an inspiration to the family. It becomes a problem later, naturally, as they show how what was a source of strength, when left unaddressed, becomes a new kind of toxicity. I just think it's very interesting and a good point of how generational trauma often starts from overcoming difficulty that then becomes glorified as strength and durability, often not addressing how truly damaging what they went through actually was.
That's actually a great point. I gotta think about that.
So what is the answer then? How do you address that trauma? Like in Encanto, it seems as though the miracle WAS Abuela's way of confronting and moving past what happened to her. So at what point did she go too far? Or in Turning Red, the red panda was the ancestor's way of fighting back against her oppressors. Then when the family came to Canada, they actually DID try to let go of the panda and truly move on from their past.
Remember: An antagonist doesn’t have to be a bad character; their purpose in the story is to oppose the main character, and this doesn’t have to be in an ‘evil’ way.
Think of it like opposing sides in a debate
Good example would be Yoshikage Kira
@@ricardonb6375 How is killing women for their hands not evil?
@@Emma__O Well, from a certain point of view
Abuela is and will always be a good example of Latino elders, it's painfully accurate, painfully real, and the fact that she apologized... I wish it was also more... Real in people's life because Latino elders often don't apologize to younger folk
I think you're just so used to getting nothing that you're placing a lot of value on a simple apology. Abuela did horrific things for 40 years and acted like she just had a minor misunderstanding, her saying sorry doesn't undo what she did. Her legacy is the trauma she inflicted on every other member of the family that won't be fixed by a single apology.
If you're talking about mothers in Disney, you HAVE to mention the O.G: Brave. Merida's relationship with her mother felt so relatable to me. I never cry during movies, but I very nearly did during their reconciliation scene
Yeah, queen Elenor is so underrated
It really was ahead of its time. Made such an impact on me in my early teens. Toxic mother/daughter relationships were not shown on screen and it got so much hate for it, but it was so good to see my feelings represented on screen and I'm glad girls of Chinese background have something similar to relate to now
Hard agree!
Too bad the bear happened and the plot went all over the place
@@OJorEm True, but still. I'd say Turning Red is the better movie in which a mother and daughter reconnect while one of them gets turned into a bear.
I like how Disney shows how people have very complicated relationships with their mothers. However I'd love to see some more complicated father relationships with fathers who take a more prominent role in the movie. For example, there was Alberto's awful father relationship in the movie Luca, but obviously the father isn't present (honestly that was better for the movie anyway). Some other movies are the same in the regard that maybe the relationship isn't great but it isn't really touched upon after that. Though at the same time we do have ratatouille.
I mean, we've had a TON of those tho? Off the top of my head, only from Disney and Pixar: Ratatouille like you said, Finding Nemo, The Incredibles (both of them), Onward, Chicken Little, Aladdin, Little Mermaid, not to mention every "that's your dream dad not my dream" and sports tween movie ever. Even Coco is more about the grandfather than the grandmother. That's not even counting the ones about metaphorical dads like the Toy Story movies or dad figures, like Cars, Up, Treasure Planet. Or ones where the dad is primary figure that the lead is focused on as his personal struggle, like the Lion King. Just. There are a lot of dads, and a lot of men focused movies. It's okay if two of them get to focus on the mom/grandma for once.
Don't forget Brave.
How to train your dragon!
Not from Disney, but I highly recommend The Mitchells vs The Machines! It's just amazing all around and one of my favorite movies of all time.
@@UchihaKat Cars?? And other movies you listed weren't father/familial-centered, while the talks about mothers/grandma were entirely family-focused and the instigators being the mothers/grandmothers themselves. The conflict of The Incredibles and Toy Story weren't centering around the father themselves, some of the movies don't even take the conflict seriously such as Chicken Little and every other sports tween movies. Others are not as on touch as Turning Red such as the Little Mermaid, since they never really showed more of Ariel's father and simply used him as an instigator rather than an actual father-daughter relationship, or rather never showed it. In fact family wasn't the main moral/story in Ariel.
Other movies are also more abstract than relatable too. The whole concept of Up and Treasure Planet exemplifies that, as while they both portray a meaningful relationship of fatherhood, the relationship itself becomes more vaguely beautiful than blatant like movies such as Encanto.
The only movie that I think matches what the person's saying is Finding Nemo, where the entire focus is on the father-son relationship. I honestly would also like a father version of generational trauma, that a father is affected by his own traumatic experiences that he heavily affects his family. Especially since there are also untold traumas men go through, such as being drafted for war...so many soldiers back then had a lot of untreated PTSD since their mental health were brushed off, and that's most likely the reason why there's a lot of domestic abuse cases within American families.
Also, especially for the uprise of disrespect against father's day. Fuck I appreciate all these uplifting stuff in mother's day but I don't see one commercial congratulating guys in father's day, in fact I've seen a commercial actually centering a mom in father's day, and essentially say we celebrate mothers on father's day too. I get that commercial wasn't trying to be malicious, but seriously? Where's the celebration of fathers in mother's day?
I guess we can call Coco, Encanto, and Turning Red the generational trauma trilogy.
Unless there’s a 4th one
@@queenspacegirl1393 Like what?
@@johnsantos507 Moana
@@iicosmogyral Oh. But which character of Moa- oh. It's Moana's father.
The real villain was the generational trauma we found along the way.
“Sometimes simply seeing ourselves and our struggles told genuinely and well is all we need” couldn’t have said it better, that line made me cry. Turning red is probably one of my fav films of all time now exactly bc it told my story so genuinely that it was like my fantasy of my mom reconciling with me had come to life. I love my mom, I even watched the film with her! But we didn’t always have such a nice relationship, and it’s still quite rocky to this day. Turning red touched me sm not only bc parental trauma and shit, but bc I saw the part of the family turning into red pandas as a metaphor for having bipolar disorder (or other similar emotional disorders). I have bipolar and adhd but I only got diagnosed last year, so all my life my mom has been extra harsh on me because I just can’t seem to be like the other kids, I can’t get work done properly, and acted irrationally often. So she’s always get mad at me. During my early angst teen years, my bipolar came out even more in heavy depression, and I would argue back with her, with both of us saying some terribly hurtful things to each other. After being diagnosed and both of us learning more about my disorders, she’s accepted me more. And tho I still haven’t had my big ‘movie’ apology moment with her yet, turning red just reminds me of where I’ve been as a young Chinese Cantonese-speaking girl myself, and the struggles I’ve had to get through to be where I am today. Seeing Ming as a teen girl crying about hurting her mom in the forest is the most unforgettable part for me, reminds me of myself but also to remember my mom has her own struggles too to this day and I should be more caring towards her. That’s why I love turning red, and I liked this video a lot too!
your story is so heart warming, and it upsets me that people only want to see the superficial period analogy when it comes to mei's red panda. yes the movie itself compares it to a period, but the comparison doesnt go any farther than that. by the end of the movie mei flaunts her panda with pride and chooses not to hide it away, because the panda becomes a part of her. i hope you have found the same peace with your personal struggles as mei found peace living with her panda.
@@cry_stain I really dont get the period analogy, it didnt make sense, she was red I guess? Thats about it.
Family and the home have been a traditionally feminine space for a very long time. It makes sense that when that space becomes toxic, women in their familial roles (mother, grandmother) would be explored first. It's nice to see female characters and their relationships with other women take center stage in these films because we don't often get that outside of specific genres. Some commentators have pointed out toxic father figures in other Disney films, but those stories do not center on generational trauma or abuse the way we see Tangled, Encanto, or Turning Red do. I hope some day we get to see paternal dysfunction and toxicity explored in depth too!
The Mitchells vs the Machines comes to mind, although that dad isn’t toxic so much as struggling to understand the mc
Okay, but why does generational trauma always manifests only through the mothers, though? I'd love to see a stubborn patriarc in a Pixar movie who traumatizes generations.
Mean old dads are a staple of other stories, not from Disney
Right, I felt like this was Brave 2.0 at some points. You can have a mom who isn't dead and isn't overbearing, uncaring and/or manipulative.
@@austinpapageorge7210 Which stories - in this generational context, please...?
Triton from The Little Mermaid
@Jade we have so many movies and TV shows with toxic fathers
It would be nice to have a good father for once
Love this psychological analysis about these families and how trauma and just being in a family is passed down generation to generation. Thank you so much! I hope you do more like these!!
Ikr? This is literally my family and I couldn't relate any further. I know that sounds like a bad thing, but you get what I mean. 😅
Coco was such a brilliant movie. It's a shame most people remember it as "the movie Disney tried to use to copyright a cultural holiday"
Is that how most people remember it?? I thought it was remembered as the movie that made everybody cry like a baby.
@@Dachusblot at least in most discussions about it, it's always brought up
To be fair, it's a pretty fucked up thing to do
@@AD-dg3zz oh definitely. Disney reminding us that it's still just a big greedy corpo. But that's not really the movies fault though, is it? It's the asshole Disney higher-ups that decided to do that. Idk I just always thought that was unfair
@@DeadlyLazer As a Mexican, I did feel attacked by Disney back then. I still can't believe they thought it was a good idea. However, I like separating the creative team from the big corp. I know there's no denying that they are still the same company, but I like to believe that the writers and animators, having done such a wide and sensitive research about Mexico for the film, would have respected the culture they were writing for, as opposed to the corpo itself. I hope I'm right, lol. Side note, I like how it came out a little earlier here in Mexico, I think it it was a nice touch.
Another note of this is that Mei is extremely reverent of her culture and religion. Her devotion to her ancestors is never in doubt.
But what if she has a child who doesn't want to even try to respect this stuff. They want to pretend it doesn't exist. Would Mei be able to handle *that*
that’s a good take i would love to see a continuation of this movie when mei is an adult
I feel like due to what she went through in the movie, she might be more open minded about such things. Although a struggle for balance I could see happening
@@StonedHunter i would love to see her deal with her daughter or what if they have only boys. I really loved this world. And Godzilla panda so fluffy
That would be an interesting route to take as I haven’t seen that scenario being shown much in media (unless there’s good examples pls tell I wanna see it:0)
I think they wanted it to be relatable to actual asian americans/canadians/europeans and how most kids follow their parents ideology until they’re old enough to even question it. But it would be a cool idea for a sequel.
It's been hard to explain the therapy-like impact these stories have had on me when I feel helpless confronting trauma others aren't able to, but I've since gotten closure for myself with their help. Thanks for putting it into words!
Turning Red is my therapy now for real for real.
@@austinpapageorge7210 Esp. with real therapy too expensive for most people.
I remember when coco came out all of my friends here in Mexico told me “prepare to cry” we all felt that. When encanto came out we didn’t cried as much but it certainly hit some of us harder. With turning red it was the same it got uncomfortable because I got real. I love how all these aren’t the same and yet have the same message. You can relate to one but not the other but at the end we all have felt like that at sometime in our lives. (If your family is very messed up, you will relate to all) but at the end it’s the human experience of we aren’t perfect, our parents and grandparents and our ancestors in general weren’t perfect either. It also comes with the more modern thinking of “breaking the cycle” a thing that is currently happening in my family. Where we validate our own traumas in our generation but remember to honor the trauma our parents and grandparents had to go through. But addressing them all to keep our little siblings and nieces and nephews from having to deal with it.
I genuinely loved Turning Red. There are so many other fantastic elements to it outside of addressing generational trauma. I love that Mei decides to embrace her panda instead of seal it away. The idea that can embrace our imperfections and grow alongside them instead of trying to hide them. Also, I just loved the accurate depiction of early 2000’s culture. It was beautifully cringey.
Same. The ending also reminds me of "X-Men The Last Stand", where the X-Men decide whether to keep or remove their superpowers with a "cure".
it should also be mentioned that bao had little to no dialogue. telling a story that conveys so many layered messages in a mature, realistic, innovative way and *solely* through the use of visuals is extremely difficult. domee shi absolutely deserves that academy award for her work.
I think there could be a turning Red sequel (far into the future)
Where Mei Lee is a mother or grandmother so focused on making sure her children don't suffer/don't feel repressed that she doesn't set proper boundaries or rules, or she puts pressure on her kids to do things that she thinks are "fun", (like really loud parties).
And in the process she ends up hurting someone and herself.
its kinda like my big fat greek wedding 2
This is basically the "Toph as a parent" problem. She spent half her childhood in an overcontrolled, oversafe environment and the other half being fiercely independent. So, she gave her kids a little too much room. The younger ended up a well adjusted former troublemaker and the elder ended up a massive stickler for rules because she essentially had to be the parent instead.
There's more involved like career reputation, but that's the boiled down version of it.
I think it'd be a great opportunity to explore the struggles of parenting. In the embracing the red documentary (making of turning red), the producer talked about how an action of a parent could either be traumatizing or empowering for the kid, and it's definitely really hard to make decisions as a parent, especially when they have to make these decisions 24/7. It is really nice to see films that explore generational trauma, but putting the focus on the parent would also be such a meaningful and interesting direction for future movies as well. I think it would give more balancing perspectives to these topics, and help kids to empathize their parents, like how encanto and turning red might have helped parents understand what their kids could have been experiencing.
If the red panda is passed on specifically from mother to daughter does that mean a generation with no girls would break the chain and make the red panda not appear for future generations. I wonder if the red panda blessing magically comes at the cost of being unable to have a son. Does the family have a male that did not marry into it?
... I feel like it's still important to acknowledge that all of these mothers (and grandmothers, and great-geat-grandmother) were *very* emotionally abusive. While reading reviews for Coco, Bao, Encanto and Turning Red, as well as other movies like Lady Bird, I found that reviewers always seem to shy or cringe away from the term (maybe to compensate for those who demonize the characters), and even this video avoids the word "abuse". Most abusers are not monsters, and all of these movies do a fantastic job of showing how unresolved trauma can make people develop incredibly cruel behaviors without them realizing it, but it should not be such a great taboo to acknowledge that Imelda, Elena, Alma, Ming and Wu were emotional abusers-- who learned from their mistakes and got better only after realizing that they almost destroyed their families.
Granted in "Encanto" and "Coco", the main characters' mother was pretty nice. In those 2 films it's the grandmother who's abusive.
It was most likely unintentional, but at 8:20 when you said "acted out of love", the slight waver in your voice brought me to the edge of tears. Encanto was such a wonderful film and exploring the narrative of parents as people with flaws and all makes not only for an important narrative, but a broadening of the audience as even adults who never had access to these kinds of stories as children, get to see themselves in these films. Thank you so much for this video!
Dude, when I saw Bao in theaters, and the mom ate the bao, everyone started laughing in the theater, meanwhile me, my mom, and my friend, and her little sister all were shocked, and my friend's little sister said very loudly, "Why are they laughing?" and everyone just got quiet.
It’s funny how much I can relate to Mei Lee, despite me being an 18 yr old guy going into college
Loved this movie
Oh especially because you are going to college!
man you really got me in tears with the sentence about how some of us will never have that come to jesus moment with our parents. I don't think I can ever truly bond with my mother and I have been trying to get to terms with that for years but it's just so unfair and I feel so betrayed. I don't know how to handle it. I'd be grateful to hear other peoples experiences with parents who are too troubled to love their children unconditionally.
Honestly, same - couldn't stop the tears at the end.
I can't imagine what it feels like to have parents that don't really love you. I can however understand the struggle of feeling like it'll never get better / you'll never have a good relationship ever (again) with your parent(s). My Mother is extremely toxic and has already been with my 24 years older sister - the example of it'll never get better (at least the relationship part). It feels so unfair seeing other people have understanding parents, parents that want to learn. And that just hurts so freaking much...
I've tried a lot, but she believes I'm just lost due to my "evil" boyfriend and dad, which actually just makes matters worse as I know that in her beliefs she's just doing what's best for me. It sometimes feels as if she's lost in her twisted explanations for stuff.
Anyway, personally I hope it'll get better once I'm emotionally more stable, but it hurts to know that time will be lost until then.
Distance helps me a lot, and the knowledge of possibly acquiring family in anyone you meet- and cutting blood related people off is sometimes for the better. And anyone that tries to shame you for it should shut the fuck up. You come first, always.
One thing I really loved is how Ming and Mei watching a soap opera is used to point out the hypocrisies of certain overbearing parents. Because if a Game of Thrones-esque drama with a gold digger coveting the young prince's throne is okay to show to your kid, and it's okay to let her join you in plotting the death of said gold digger, then why is a boy band whose lyrics are rather clean considered taboo?
Oh and another thing. I think it's a little off to say Panda = Trauma. For Mei the Panda was the best thing that ever happened to her!
My mother was a Gothel. My father, an abuela. I am SO happy to see these issues brought to light and really try to help people find the way out of the hole that became their lives.
The 2021 Disney short Far from the Tree is also solely about generational trauma. Definitely a theme this batch of creators is wrestling with lately.
Perhaps to some it may be heresy, but I think you're on pretty much the same level as Schaffrillas for pumping out video essays on Disney, concerning all kinds of topics. Ever since his vid on Encanto, and the recent release of Turning Red, I've been waiting to see what you in particular had to say about these movies, and you didn't disappoint! Keep it up, dude!
Oh god crab guy? I was thinking you meant that as an insult.
@@austinpapageorge7210 right his takes haven’t been it lately but that’s personally what i think
Lol, I only recently discovered him and laughed a lot about his unhinged hate on Dear Evan Hanson, but his obsession with the dumb crab is a bit overbearing (and completely puzzling) for me. I HATE that crab with a passion and his song is the only Disney villain song that I will always fast forward. That isn't even music, it's a cacophonic accumulation of words and he KNOWS it or he wouldn't ask 'did you like the song?' at the end. NO! No, I did not like the 'song' and I hope the cook from Ariel finds you and boils you!
Since we are tapping on generational trauma, I'm now waiting for a generational trauma that involves a male character, like a father or a grandfather or uncle. Because I think that there are many people that struggled with that too. I loved seeing the protagonist Mei struggling with her mum because in a less asian setting I faced the same, so I would love for someone that had those struggle with a male figure in their life.
I talked about the intergenerational trauma theme with my mom in these two movies (we're a Mexican family) and she said "well that's just how many Latin American families are."
And. I mean.
I appreciate the character Mother Gothel. Sometimes some parents go too far. Rapunzel saw her as her mother, while Gothel saw her as something for her own gain.
I think maybe the reason Ming Lee's panda is so big is that she and her family moved away from their homeland when she was very young so she had to deal with not just puberty & an overbearing mother but also the pressure to conform from society, discrimination and feelings of alienation from both her heritage and her new home. Furthermore, It could be that she snapped when he mother disapproved of Jin because she not only loved him but he made her feel at home & it felt like her mother was trying to take that away from her.
The nose touch at the end of Turning Red was so sweet, it was one of my favorite parts in a movie that was already chock full of "oh my god this is my favorite part"s.
Not gonna lie, I think Bao managed to do what Coco and Turning Red couldn't, though all three are still good to outstanding movies.
Bao was an emotional rollercoaster.
something that you said that really struck me was that a parent may love their child, but that doesn't mean that their love can't be selfish and painful. so often we view love as the highest virtue, and it is, but sometimes it doesn't come from the best of places and isn't expressed in the best of ways. thank you for this thoughtful and inspiring analysis.
Literally had me sobbing watching, I can’t tell if that was intended to or not! Each beautifully told stories that seem so close to home and we move forward
I’m honestly really surprised I haven’t seen more comparisons between Brave and Turning Red. They’re both about Mothers who want their daughters to be perfect and daughters who want to forge their own path, but when one of them turns into an animal they have to learn to work together and bond along the way. Hell, the climaxes even end with both mothers being saved by their daughters in a ritual circle that changes them back to normal.
Wait that's so true- even merida has red hair lmao
And both mothers end up trying out what the younger daughter suggests.
I was super suprised that the movie just... let her be into boy bands. No judgment or questions asked. I was 90% sure they were going to turn out to be horrible divas or just acting for the money or straight up the villains but no. 4 town is just a band that brings her a lot of joy and that she even made a new unexpected friend through. Like its poked fun at but the movie never makes her out to be stupid for liking it. And at the end I felt bad for expecting the movie to put the kids down like that. Like wtf I simped at 13. Pop off. Lavish in that shit girl. Its super nice that the movie aknowledge how genuenly important dumb shit can be at that age to us and its so sweet. Like that is a level of empathy that we need so much more of.
If you're interested in the crossover between psychology and film-making that this video covers, I would strongly recommend you look up a channel called Cinema Therapy. As it just so happens they've done an episode on Encanto that is well worth watching.
I'm pretty sure he's aware, that channel gets fed to me when I'm offline no matter what kinds of videos I'm consuming lol
Bruno was never exiled from the family, I don't know where you got that from to be honest. Bruno himself said that he chose to leave, the family always claim he disappeared on day, and even Aubela was shocked to find out that her only son was alive all along.
Also for "we don't talk about Bruno" seems less of everyone exiling Bruno and more of the effects that Bruno had on the town. Pepa feels upset just by the thought about Bruno, so unless she is watering crops, she should never be upset or she will cause a storm and the town all fears him since he brings bad luck.
13:31 "but sometimes perfection and storytelling is NOT the purpose, sometimes simply seeing ourselves and our struggles told genuinely and well gives us all we need"
I absolutely love this quote, it really put things to a different perspective on how I judge films. Sure the writing may be too direct at certain films, but you're right, the message is there and it's clear. It may not be important to me, but It's important to somebody and I respect that so much. Film and art is truly such a beautiful thing to have that range
I got an ad about motherhood before this lmfao
I think what I got most out of Turning Red wasn't the generational trauma stuff, which was a BIT too obvious.
Grandma in that movie wasn't my cup of tea, but she did add some variety.
It was literally everything else in the movie. How Mei Lee is so traumatized inside and yet becomes the extrovert party animal she really is. And while I'll never have a menstrual cycle, it did break my heart to see Mei Lee suffer like she did (with an obvious metaphor).
Not to mention all the questions about culture and religion that are in the movie.
4:45- You know... when a youtuber talks about a movie resonating with you, you never hear it in their voice. I feel like i'm crying with you hearing how much this movie meant to you!
When he started talking about villains all I could think of was this girl that I knew in girl scouts, her family is strict in a way that I think is unhealthy but that's beside the point. At one point the movie Maleficent came up and her dad said that he didn't let his kids watch the movie, his reason was they took a villain and glorified her. He said that he wanted to teach his children the difference between right and wrong. My mom then leans in and says to me "OR you could teach your children that the world isn't black and white". That moment stuck with me even years later.
I love these movies so much. It shows how parents aren't perfect and how everyone has trauma and that we unknowingly can hurt others. I love all of these pieces so much cause it feels so relatable yet hopeful, tho I didnt have a Disney style reconciliation too, after I came out and stood my ground but also made an effort to educate, I finally have a somewhat healthier relationship with my mother. I hope families see these films and maybe open a discussion and have healthier or stronger bonds.
Fantastic... I come straight to you for this kinda stuff. I have a hard time breaking down themes in art on my own and your editing and narration really helps. Not only does it give me food for thought but it helps me craft my own ideas and opinions. And I'm very grateful.
Turning Red perfectly depicted this topic and the awkwardness of teenage years in general. Loved it.
these films hit home for me in alot of ways, especially Encanto. To this day I'm trying tot come to terms with the trauma and pressure I experienced in my family. But seeing it get solved and healed in the end gives hope that I can over come my own struggles one day.
I believe an argument could be made that these themes could've originated even further in 2012 with Pixar's BRAVE?
I'm really goddamn lucky to have a mom who respects our shared history, owns her part in our shared trauma, and is really proud of us both for communicating and growing through it.
turning red was the perfect combination of uncomfortable exposition of our own generational trauma and very cute fluffy animals
I'm mostly commenting to feed the algorithm, but I want to note that I am glad that Turning Red is getting acknowledgement for its themes and story, rather than just the absurd drummed up controversy that came with the release.
Man, Bao always makes me cry, even if I'm just watching a recap. I have no qualms declaring it better than the film that follows it; Bao is pitch-perfect in every respect.
You might also find Tangled to be a useful complementary example to this trend of generational trauma; Mother Gothel is someone who passes on trauma to Rapunzel, but unlike these other examples she's a villain and unlikely to change. The movie doesn't deal especially with this but it gave my siblings and me the language to help us come to terms with our own family life; that you may be able to to try to reconcile but sometimes you just can't.
I wouldn't put Mother Gothel in this particular box, considering that she is very intentionally gaslighting and psychologically abusing Rapunzel, whom she kidnapped as an infant, keeping her emotionally and physically dependent upon herself, for her own personal gain.
Ming Li, Abuela, and Mamá Imelda are good people, who have lost their way because of their respective trauma and pain. Mother Gothel is just evil.
@@DoubleADwarf oh, for sure. I wouldn't include it in a list of movies that touch on generational trauma. It was just the only movie my siblings and I had seen that deals with bad parents, so it was the language we used to discuss the problem. Nowadays these newer movies are able to tackle the subject with better nuance and depth, but Tangled will remain an important stepping stone for me.
"We have scars from our protectors and tracks of tears from those who have taken care of us." Damn bro, I think you could be a novel editor
OK if it's not clear I relate too much to this movie probably because I also went through a LOT of parental trauma in the year 2002. Not the same exact thing but it feels real.
I loved that Turning Red didn't have an antagonist in the form of a person, it was genuinely a refreshing take from a kids movie. Whilst there's conflict between them, it's immediately established that their family has always been close and this rift is new and a result of shifting circumstances, not a lack of love or a long-term streak of disappointment. Not to mention the introduction to Mei and her mum lets the audience know that even if the expectations on Mei seem very high from a particular perspective, it doesn't mean a lack of love or even that the kid in question is unhappy with everything. Mei loving her culture and spending time with her mum in addition to wanting to go to concerts and hang out with her friends was PERFECT. And what I also loved is that Mei got to chose her own path without having to radically change all the adults in her life! They still chose to contain their pandas because that's what they know and is comfortable for them, and that doesn't impact their acceptance of Mei. Everyone in this movie gets to choose what's best for them rather than be forced into a new way of life just to be "authentic" - which is also something new for a kids movie from Disney.
I think a few reasons for the focus on generational trauma are: that it's a topic that just about every person can relate to, the people who are now making movies of the generations that have really started the push towards breaking these cycles, and finally that it shows up in so many different ways and from different causes that there is no end to the stories you can tell with it
Also the reason I think there's so much focus on mothers is that in just about every culture, the mother is meant to be the emotional rock of the family more than even the fathers at times. They are meant to care for everyone and as such are the most likely to bottle their pain away often for decades or their entire lives. Of course it effects men too, obviously, but they aren't often made to be in control of not only their own emotions (hell they're often taught not to have any), but those of the rest of their family too.
7:56 “The cracks in their hearts become deep fissures in the lives of their children.” Damn. You ate with that line right there
Not going to lie, I hoped that you'd dive deeper into Turning Red. but that's only because I'm totally obsessed with the movie.
So many onions. . . . Just the mention and recap of Bao had me crying all over again.
I loved this analysis. One thing that has really bothered me about the discourse about Encanto is the need to make Abuela the villain of the story, when it's a lot more complicated than that. Intergenerational trauma is complex, and you can't always distill it down to plain abuse
His explanation of bao made me cry. You have such a good way with words.
This was a really great conversation, this film really hit hard
THIS. IS. SO. GOOD. THE WAY YOU EXPLAINED ENCANTO MADE ME SOB
You forgot to mention the short film before Encanto, “Far from the Tree,” which also focuses on this same exact themes of motherhood, family trauma, reconciliation, and healing.
A baby raccoon and her mother go out to gather food, but danger is lurking around every corner. The mother tells her baby to stay where it’s safe, but the baby gets carried away while playing, putting herself in danger. Fiercely terrified because her baby nearly died, the mother raccoon scolds her daughter, but in doing so, she emotionally scars the daughter she loves so much.
Fast forward to the next generation, the baby has now become the mother. History nearly repeats itself as the new mother tries to keep her baby safe while collecting food the way her mother taught her. However, she breaks the chain of emotional scarring by taking the time to SHOW her baby where the danger is and why it’s important to stay where it’s safe.
The new mother gains understanding of what her own mother went through, and now she is a better mother, herself, because of it.
I love how Mei and her mom aside from a few differences actually get along. We need more movies where even if kids and parents don't see eye to eye they still get along fairly well with eachother.
Disney mothers need to calm down, let’s be honest-
To be honest. They have been dead or an background character for many years. No wonder they are now claiming the spotlight with drama.
im really happy the younger generation will get to grow up woth movies like these. No matter how much I love the classic disney style and story telling, these recent ones have been so lovely and maybe the kids will, at a younger age, have more empathy and compassion or speak more openly about how they feel
disney. they've gone from killing off stepmoms unconditionally. to trying to fix problems mom's can unknowingly cause.
That's some good 🌃✨Character Development ✨🌃
@@Takejiro24 now if they could stop hating the LGBT community
Americans: Those who think disney invented the little mermaid, cinderella, aurora, Snowwhite and Elsa
@@jungkooks_microwavephobia No one said they did.
@@dissonanceparadiddle I don’t think Disney hates the LGBT community. I just think they overplayed their pandering to the community with poor execution. I do know however, a good portion of the audience is tired of it.
Yeah, Turning Red really did hit the mark with the mother and daughter relationship including the reason why they are that way. I think it is the perfect masterpiece of a film, especially for early 2020s.
These intergenerational trauma stories kick my heart and I love them for it
I love how Imelda starts off bitter and resentful towards Hector, until the truth about his fate is revealed. She then goes full tsundere mode, even being conflicted over calling Hector "the love of her life."
What are you thoughts on Merida's mom from Brave?
I'm surprised you didn't bring that Pixar movie up at all. It's the movie that started this whole trope with anti-villain mothers. It's also kind of a nice change from the traditional evil step-mother/parent trope that Disney was especially known for.
I think there are a lot of Disney films without a central antagonist. It's not rare anymore to have a villain-less Disney film.
Yeah, and it eventually gets boring.
This is an excellent video, however I think the one thing that this video misses, is that these movies, and their stories and themes on generational trauma, ties directly into the cultures they portray. Generational trauma is so very common in Latino and Asian cultures, where it's common to have multi-generations of a family all living together, and the focus on family is ingrained in our culture. This isn't to say that western/American/European cultures can't have generational trauma, but I do think to us, who have lived our lives in these Big Family culture, these movie hit a lot deeper.
The way this guy explains things makes me really want to cry, the movies have such an emotinal meaning behind them and he just explains it to beautifully. I really did enjoy the way you showed instead of just telling, thank you for such a beautiful video!!
How Disney deals with fathers: 👻
Most fathers in Disney movies are either absent or assholes.
Most relatable scene was Mei expecting an earful and then some from her mom, only to move past her and not say a single word.
I guess there are a LOT of themes in Turning Red. Movie's densely packed, imo.
Juggles a lot more balls than Encanto I suppose.
Just an aside, but I love that you referred to the "twist" in Bao, at the same time the character was twisting the bao closed.
I found with "turning red" it also shows how an entire generation can be an instant repeat, seeing how Mei Meis own mother is like with HER own mother had she not fixed it she would have been separated or split just like her mother & grandmother
Listen I know this is a hot take, but it pains me to my core when I hear people talking about Coco, look no disrespect at all I think it’s a great family film, but to me- & this is fact: The Book of Life came out first & I saw that & was traumatized (in a good way) that movie is absolutely banging & not talked about enough 🔥💯
(For anyone wondering ‘The Book of Life’ also touches on ‘family’ but is actually more about Love in general so if you want a more personal Coco, you should check it out! ((Ps: they’ve got LGBTQ+ representation 😎
Edit: Also woah this is my first time watching this channel’s videos & your insight/review is pretty top-notch!
And Disney tried to trademark Dia de los muertos, people like to forget that
@@Crisopeia mhm, a bit shameless, but we’ve come to expect that of big corporations today lol
Book of Life Representation!!!! I'm here for it.
@@TheArtofKAS yess haha “no retreat, no surrender!” :D
@@Crona_Gowther_Kanato 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
Oh my god, the director of Turning red did Bao too? I would ask who hurt her, but it's obvious who. I just want to give her a hug.
Great analysis and breakdown of all the themes!
This is so deep and I love how a video essay like this has the potential to change a lot of people's lives. Love your videos. Keep doing what you're doing!
Actually found out that discussion of trauma in Turning Red with my mother and some professional present lead to a legitimate ptsd attack in me.
Fun.
Ending of turning red is realistic. Mei doesn't get a specific apology. If anything her mom just wants to tell her to be an overachiever again
"Some of our parents either don't want to reconcile or are unable to"
:(