Hey, man. Great video. While slightly underwhelming I thought it was a great season. Also, do you remember that video you did on Amber? Well… look I’m not gonna shame you for trying to defend her, but I think you just misinterpreted why people hate her. It’s more about how she was never portrayed as in the wrong and Mark was shown as completely in the wrong by the story and other characters. It would’ve been better if it turned out she somehow knew for weeks and instead Mark revealed his identity, she apologises for yelling at him but questions if they’ll probably have too many problems and isn’t sure it would be worth getting back together. I’m sorry, that just would’ve made their breakup feel way more impactful in season 2. The acting was great in that, but I just kept on remembering how she shamed him for keeping his identity a secret even though it would’ve been life changing for him, especially after dating for a few months, and she didn’t tell him she knew.
@@insectostrich4407 you’ve not ruined my day because these don’t really counter the points I made in that video, they’re just reiterating the same tired complaints. You’re free to feel that way, but none of them are ‘flaws’ in the writing or anything. Smart people like Amber aren’t automatically _instantly & consistently rational beings_ in emotional beings (especially when they’re in their teens), 5 months is a pretty long time, actually, she’s yelling at him (while knowing) because she’s upset (😲!) and I _just don’t agree_ that season 1 positions her as totally 100% correct for her actions - see the final/epsiode 8 scene I reference in the Amber video. Because, yeah, this is all in that video. I’m not sure why you didn’t like the counters I made in it, but to me they remain as valid now as they were then. Edit: for anyone wondering why this comment no longer makes a great deal of sense as a reply, the person I’m responding to edited theirs
@@PillarofGarbage Oh sorry. I didn’t realise you were typing. Anyway, to respond to your response. I understand what you’re are trying to say, but it just doesn’t work because there’s literally no moment where Amber was called out, it’s just William and Eve saying he was a terrible boyfriend and he got what he deserved. And yes, it makes sense she wouldn’t think rationally as a teenager all the time, but it doesn’t make sense in a situation where like this where she knows Mark is the hero who saved them. That’s why it should never have been revealed she knew. I know the writers were just trying to show a parallel between Omni-Man lying to Debbie, but it doesn’t work with how it’s executed.
@@insectostrich4407 The only other thing I’ll add now is that if you think the only way a show can position behaviour as good/bad is with a scene of explicit, textual ‘calling out’ I think you’re approaching TV in a rather shallow way.
@@PillarofGarbageonce again, really sorry to bring this up and beat a dead horse, but it just impacted invincible in negative way. I understand why you’re sick of the ranting and videos on why Amber is bad. However, it’s a problem that needs to be addressed. See in the comics she was angry at Mark for disappearing, but had no idea he was Invincible. And when he revealed himself she was so happy and got back together. So, I would keep the not knowing part, but change her reaction to finding out. Like I said have her question if it would be worst getting back together and then after the Omni-Man fight have them get back together. Making the breakup in season 2 so much more heartbreaking.
Steven Yuen fucking killed it this season, ESP in the finale. It's easy to forget because he's surrounded by industry vets like JK Simmons and Clancy Brown but with the finale alone he's put himself among the greats in voice acting.
@@grhmcrck Sociopath versions of Mark like that are so funny yet so terrifying. It's like this surface level niceness about committing his horrible deeds, our Mark's kindness twisted into something very dark.
A common theme I picked up on this season was doubt and subsequent reflection. We get a lot of scenes where characters are shaken and forced to reflect on who they are. Mark repeatedly doubts his ability to hold a stable relationship with Amber, work together with both Cecil and the Guardians and even whether he's any different from his father. Season 1 showed Mark get repeatedly beaten down physically, but Season 2 chipped away at him emotionally and mentally and it all culminates with Angstrom Levy. He's not the villainous mastermind working in the shadows, he's the straw that broke the camel's back. Mark has been getting pushed and pushed to his mental limits all season so when Angstrom portals in and hurts Mark's family, it causes all of the stress to boil over and ultimately kill Angstrom.
As Rex puts it, "Everybody f*cks up. To f*ck up is to be human ... [We've] all sh*t the bed at least once." As far as animated pep talks go, it's up there with Todd telling BoJack, "You do the Hokey Pokey, and you turn yourself around. You TURN YOURSELF AROUND."
I'm glad you bring up the dichotomy of season 1 and 2, as the major complaint prior to the finale of season 2 I saw online was "why can't Mark beat anyone" even though he does win, it's just when he does it's not a substantial threat or he squashes it before it becomes one, excluding the Sequids. Season 1 showed us how utterly powerless Mark is as a hero at times, and takes some heavy losses physically. Season 2 showed us how even if Mark has the capability to win, he still loses as Angstrom expertly displays this, he lost control. Much like in the show, to the fanbase Mark just can't win, which is kinda poetic. Also wanna add the fact he's still fairly new to all this still, he's not an aged veteran, he's not even an adult. He's trying to make decisions on the fly without experience or composure. Granted I truly believe if he weighed up his options, Angstrom would had to have been stopped. It's just he couldn't reach that conclusion before reaching into the depths of rage, which isn't the hero Mark wanted to be. As we even see flashbacks to when Mark said to Omni-Man he wants to be just like him after he gets back to his Earth and is flying at speed to basically release all his frustration to himself. Mark has a built up idea of what a hero is. I love Mark as a character because he's not just relatable in one sense or another, tackling with taking a life and how much power you truly have vs times where you can't do a single thing, it's odd to say but most all people will encounter moments like this in their life and how they handle them defines them, as it does Invincible.
@@skankhunt4767they’ve been getting too comfortable with some of their decisions. That only leads to complicity and a degradation of quality if left unchecked and unchallenged. I think amazon can continue to make invincible great as a show. That’s if they remain aware of what makes it great. That scheduling was a big L that pissed many off
@@lilricebowl9731 maybe, if they’re smart and care about maintaining views. They’re however extremely large, so if they deem invincible to not be profitable enough they could potentially cancel it. All possibilities, to what degree I’m not sure as contracts make things a lil funny.
The finale worked very well for me. It hit hard when he realized that he not only lost control but that he wanted to, that Levy pushed the right buttons for him to do something he didn't know he was capable. I also love how Cecil's attempt to help Mark was such a black and white/hollow attempt to soothe Mark's turmoil.
Yeah I thought it was super interesting that Cecil through the whole season is like "Meh you're acting just like your dad rn" and then the second he genuinely does an act like his dad he goes "Nah man what? Nahhh. Nah man ur good."
Yeah i disagree with the video and this take. Like I think that was the writers' goal, to make Mark lose control and the audience think "Oh wow is Mark actually a loose cannon?" but it didn't land for me. It felt forced. Like Mark is so shaken by the fact that he killed a guy, a guy who held his mother and brother hostage, threatened them, threw a knife at them with intent to kill, and then intended to kill Mark and they fought for a while. Responding to that by killing Angstrom is... a pretty normal and reasonable reaction for anyone in such a circumstance. All the clips during the season of other, evil Marks feel completely disconnected from the Mark we know (and it feels like essentially wasted screentime) because they are entirely different characters. At no point did I ever think "Oh man, I hope our Mark doesn't become that!" because he's already demonstrated repeatedly that he isn't like those other Marks. He didn't join Omni-man because of his human love for his family, friends, and the species as a whole. He told Anissa to F off based on morals, even though Cecil himself encouraged him to say yes. He tried to protect the bug people against the Viltramites because the bug people were innocent. All he's ever done is demonstrate an unwavering commitment to do what's right, and the show tries to force this dynamic that he's uncontrollable or that he's a danger to those around him. It wasnt a bad season, but Season 1 was far better (even with awful Amber).
@@aaronb6878 I do not feel like it's intent was to make Mark seem capable of "evil" or "uncontrollable" so much as to show that Mark didn't think himself capable of that. Now he has to realize that not only is that want/ need to end a threat with death normal for most people, especially those with the power to do so, that its as human as much as it is Viltrumite. Having to contend with that want while having so much power will have to be part of his future training. If he wants to keep himself from taking what seems like the easiest option in killing someone and search for a better solution, finding more tools than violence will have to part of said training. The fact that Mark WANTS to do this is a large part of WHY this Mark is different. You can't just look at the previous actions, you have to look at all of who Mark is even as he learns about himself. He is still a teenager after all. That's where my mind went when I saw the final episode.
One thing I really loved in this season is how they've been slowly teasing what the idea of a visceral and adrenaline-filled Mark would look like and how it would look like if Mark truly stopped holding back, and that ties into the comics/show exploration into the moral complexity of heroism. When we see Mark go all out and beat the living s*** out of Angstrom, we feel thrilled and satisfied to finally see what they've been building up to; however, just like Mark, we eventually/slowly come to the realisation that Mark is killing Angstrom was not epic win we had in mind but seeing Mark become just like his father and lose control in a fit of rage (rage which was justified given that Angstrom did deserve it), and only validate what Angstrom has been saying with almost every universe having become evil. We have to learn how to understand Mark's perspective and what it means to control his mind and body to not reflect what Angstrom was saying with other Marks in the multiverse, how the world sees Mark, or how he sees himself becoming like his dad, and learn to be better.
Especially with how the music starts off triumphantly and then becomes distorted when he pins Levy to the ground. That was the line Mark crossed, when he had the opportunity to walk away.
@@klaw6368 Having a sad backstory doesn't justify any villain, it just makes them more sympathetic. Angstrom was still willing to kill a baby. His original intentions don't change that.
@connie4334 Seems like people complained so much about gingercide, they contemplated raceswapping Amber or Eve and chose to change Amber. Starfire, Iris West, Jimmy Olsen, Ariel all received backlash so they chose the blonde one this time
@@suezcontours6653Honestky, Zazie Beetz is good, so I don’t mind the change. I am curious if the decision was made before or after the casting process began.
Angstrom Levy is not THE big bad. Season 2 wasn’t constructed around a big final villain like Omni-Man in Season 1. The season was built more around various events in Mark’s life that were building in severity and frequency. All of that intensified by Mark’s underlying trauma and fear of becoming his father. Mark’s trauma was the real villain. And Angstrom was the personification of Mark’s fears. The idea that Mark was just another violent Viltrumite no matter how much he fought against it. It’s a fight against this predestined narrative that he will always be his father at the end of the day. I love the idea behind Angstrom being used to represent Mark’s character. His mind has been jumbled up with all of the memories of his counterparts and the vast majority of universes show Mark embracing being a Viltrumite. The implication is that even though this Mark is a hero, he still has similar traits to his counterparts when it comes to violence. Mark’s decision at the end represents that Mark still feels that same rage that is emblematic of Viltrumites and now Mark has to wrestle with the fact that deep down he can be just as aggressive as a Viltrumite. Mark beat Angstrom the same way Nolan beat Mark in the Season 1 finale. Essentially the multiverse is used as a way to explore Mark’s character as opposed to fanservice cameos……although those Spider-Man and Batman scenes were fire 😏
This season is a masterpiece. Not only did it meaningfully address Mark's journey toward self-acceptance by showing why Earth needs him as Invincible, but it understood with relationships such as Oliver and Debbie that people need Mark, too. Even though the emotional highs may not reach the same as in season 1, they have a consistent heart throughout each episode with a much more self-realized supporting cast. How many other Superhero shows can you think of where a character like Donald has equal depth to the protagonist? Finally, the ending. Most season 2 finales either resolve every plot thread or leave a cliffhanger, but the fact that it could do both, just like season 1, shows these showrunners can capture lightning in a bottle twice. Amazon should be careful not to rush their next season again.
I agree with most of what you said except the very last part. What part of this season was rushed? It took 2.5 years to begin and if that’s rushing then this series is going to take like 20 years to finish lol
@@caseyhart4999 Cool. I mean rush the release date. They weren't finished with the animation since they took that break. I argue that Amazon should let the season get finished before promising a release date.
This show really is "Superheroes, but Humanism". It's one of the only shows I've watched where it legitimately feels like all the characters are their own people, with their own stories, lives and journeys to self-actualisation - they're used to further the plot, sure, but they all act in natural ways given their situation and history.
I feel like it's because angstrom wasn't really in the season that much, he really showed up only in the first episode and a bunch of post credit scenes. But to me, it kind of makes sense for him, he is kinda supposed to be the over the top evil arch enemy with a bad reason. It kinda makes sense how less time he has. Mark doesn't even really know him at all. He is more of a tool to push mark's character rather than being a real character himself. He sets up Mark's development to quit college and focus on himself getting stronger and being able to compete with future foes like the viltrumite army. I still liked it tho.
I feel like its a byproduct of the comics, where characters will just kinda reappear for one issue after being teased in the last page of the previous one, doesn't always necessarily work better for a far more serialized tv show.
I think even the show itself makes a point that it isn't about Angstrom when Mark doesn't remember him, which is quite funny. Angstrom is just a guy pissed at Invincible that managed to get under his skin and make him lose control.
I liked it, and yeah, looking at it this way, Season 2 ends up being Mark's story more than Season 1 did. It makes sense that Nolan took a backseat. We've seen the confliction Nolan had, and in Season 1, Mark's confliction was more with Nolan than the personal one he had in Season 2. It also makes sense why, despite losing the fight, Season 1's ending was explicitly hopeful, while Season 2 is comparatively a downer and melancholy.
This show deserves so many more episodes. I think the best part of Invincible is the dialogue, the vulnerable conversations and exploration of character. I think this season really brought that side of the comics out. I can't wait for the next seasons which are truly the peak Invincible arcs in terms of action and story.
Although it’s not as great as Season 1, Season 2 is still very solid! In fact, there’s more emotional weight added in Season 2, thanks to the story focusing on Mark’s and Debbie’s struggles after Nolan left Earth.
@@halloweenfridayinvincible it seems grows up and is just maturing, I’m seeing people who think S2 was setup and only setup, but S2 imo is way more complete cause it bounces off season 1 so perfectly. It’s all an aftermath of Omni man S1, but time continues to move on so more shit still happens while they’re dealing with trauma from before. It’s a mature show and I thought they did a great job
the season was amazing, but man, i feel like the animation quality dipped like hell. often during scenes where characters just talk, their entire bodies held stiff poses while only their lips kept moving, which was really uncanny
I love this season and the emotional development of the characters. The finale episode was a bit abrupt. Maybe it needed another scene. But it was clear that Mark is afraid of becoming his dad in order to protect those he loves, and Omni man, his father is becoming more human to protect the ones he love. The line, "I miss my wife" was great
In retrospect, this season carries the theme of "How does one preserves their humanity over barbarism while responding to conflict with violence?". And if I go with the different answers that different moments of the comics have come up with : season 1 : by taking the violence from others. season 2 : by exercising restraint (oops, it didn't work) season 3 : by meeting out violence only on those who deserve it from a righteous man (oops, that doesn't work either) Viltrumite war : By using violence in service of protecting the homeland and this is where I'm at now, in the aftermath of the viltrumite war : You kinda don't actually, you have to let go of the violence and talk, negotiate with people. Excited to see where this goes next.
Another great video! To us, the whole “trying not to be like my dad” thing feels a little weird because Mark doesn’t act like Nolan, he acts like a regular teenager with an extreme amount of power that he’s still getting used to. It would make sense to us if it was *just* Mark feeling that way and maybe some people compared them to get under his skin, but it feels like the show wants us to think that Mark is really starting to show his “Viltrumite side”. Like if someone did your mom (or someone else you care a lot about) like Angstrom Levy did Debbie you would almost certainly beat their ass the first chance you got, and if you’d only had super strength for a couple years you would definitely kill that person by accident at the very least. Tldr: Mark isn’t like Nolan, he’s just a teenager with extreme trauma and more power than he can control atm.
But that’s the thing. A regular teenager with an extreme amount of power is terrifying. If that kind of behavior persists then you could end up with a might makes right hierarchical society like the Viltrumites. Viltrumites represent humans who completely forego any sense of compassion in favor of strength above all else. They are completely obsessed with power that weakness is seen as a disease. Any hint of empathy or compassion is weeded out because to them it makes them powerless. When one has that much power, the weight of their actions has loads more consequences. Most people can lose control and be fine. But since Mark has the power to break the world he has to be more careful. He can’t just easily give in to his aggression. Especially because there is little to nothing on Earth that can stop him. He has to have more self-control than the average person. This is what the alternate Marks reveal about Mark. That deep down he can be just as violent as a regular Viltrumite and that he won’t always be able to control himself.
I think people dont understand that what Nolan did led to Mark having a moral compass similar to Batman and Spider-Man. He knows how powerful and potentially dangerous he is, why is why he consciously puts limits on himself. He knows that if he allows himself to kill, that will have a domino effect and he will graduallg grow more and more similar to traditional viltrumites. This is also why even though Anissa has him beat, he has no way of winning the fight, he doesnt even think about lying about agreeing with Viltrum. He would rather die "honourably" knowing he didnt break his moral compass, even if he knows deep down that pragmatically that was a very risky move
A thing- he acts like asshole in the comic and there is clear "I do is right so shut up" attitude while still showing empathy. Show just makes him moopy and not engage in casual jerk behaviour which got later reinterpreted as him becoming more like evil Marks.
@@mikhaelgribkov4117 we didn’t really see it as him being an asshole, more like he’s a teenager trying to figure things out on his own and doesn’t want the help/advice of the adults, though I can definitely see how you can consider that as him being an asshole
@@Ren_Davis0531 yeah, but having more power doesn’t automatically make you more like the people who only value power. It’d be different if after losing control he found himself enjoying it like a full-blooded viltrumite. There are more differences between viltrumites and humans than just their powers and abilities. Oliver is actually a perfect example, he *actually* starts acting like Nolan and it’s a problem.
I felt underwhelmed at the climax of the Angstrom fight. My first thought was “wait, has he really not killed anyone before?” I could have sworn he’s definitely killed a few giant monsters. And during the Flaxan invasion he was throwing around tanks, and giving people time cancer. I guess killing someone in self defense who was repeatedly threatening you and your family just didn’t feel like a moral failing to me.
When I saw Mark trying to justify his killing of Levy to himself and eventually realizing he genuinely lost control, I was chilled. This is a guy fighting himself every day. Good stuff.
From a filmmaking perspective, the ending of Mark vs Angstrom is blocked and framed very similarly to Nolan vs Mark. Only Mark is now in his father's position, crouching over someone lying beneath him, utterly unmoving. Mark is even on his dad's side of the frame (he's frame left, Angstrom is frame right). Both Mark in S2 and Nolan in S1 take a moment to look at their hands as they realize what they're doing. I think this is part of what makes it so uncomfortable. The show is very intentionally reminding you of last season's finale and drawing attention to how the script has been flipped.
We see him be evil as much as we saw OmniMan be evil, but OmniMan wasn't always being evil. He was a main character, that built up his betrayal. We just don't have Angstrom in the story as much, not in a full Sense. So even think i loved it, i still don't feel like i know Angstrom as much as i knew Nolan. That said he will return, so there's more time to really feel his menace.
Thank you for this video. Finally someone understands the reason Angstrom Levy exists as a villain to Mark and why it matters for Invincible. Two lines that go unmentioned which I think you should of mentioned was Rex to Mark in episode 7 telling him no one could of come back from what he had suffered through and Eve at the ending moment of episode 8 telling Mark he does not deserve this. This whole season was about breaking Mark and in the end it happened, is Mark truly Inv....
Liked the season a lot, the only thing that was strange was how Mark kinda ignored the viltrumite threat after returning to Earth after meeting Nolan. In not a single moment he warned Cecil and the others or started to really prepare. You can point this to characterization, sure, he's basically a teenager trying to juggle different parts of his life, but it still feels a bit off. The rest I liked a lot, it did feel that the villain was underdeveloped, but with what presented on the video, I'm starting to like it more
I knew about the Invincible war for years and I didn't get to read it in depth. I was able to read up to when the Viltrumites got Nolan and read a head due to the comics being bought and I had to read what was out there. I like the idea of you being the only good one while most other versions of you chose wrong or became evil. This was almost seen in Multiverse of Madness but it didn't go that way.
The invincible war in comics is only 1 chapter so I really hope the show does it Justice. 8 invincible nuking all of earth should be way more than 1 chapter.
@@The-Legend-of-P it's not one chapter but spread through different on going series because DC and Marvel do that as well. They make the event crossover into other comics to get a different perspective from another character.
@@mandalorianhunter1 they do the invincible war in the other invincible comic series? Ig that’s fine but I still think the main Invincible war should be more than a slideshow chapter
@@mandalorianhunter1 ohhh ok ok 👍 I didn’t know image comics did that, all Ik are the spin-offs comics exist and stuff but that’s it. That’s super cool tho
While this is a good point, I think you are missing something in your analysis: Mark is still just a kid. He might be in college, but the dilemmas he is encountering are the ones we all face when we get the first whiff of adult society in college. He just has the gargantuan responsibility of...you know...being Invincible on top of everything. In my opinion, calling him the villain might be bit of a stretch. I think a better way of putting it would be that is he both the hero and the villain of the season, because, frankly, we all are both the hero and the villain in our own respective stories when we are figuring out the person we want to become in our late teens/early adulthood. Mark is Invincible, but at the end of the day, just like everyone else, he is struggling with what he *wants* to do, and what he *should* do.
I think the focus on levy reflects marks view on the situation. He barely remembered the guy, and only gave him any consideration when his family was threatened by him. It’s intense and a cool fight for a bit. But it ends quicker than you’d expect, and mark feels the same. He thought he was stronger, that he could take marks pent up anger built over the course of days trapped in different dimensions. It’s a great scene, where a good hearted guy encounters the perfect opportunity to let off too much steam. He got caught up in the drama, in the genre of superhero’s to some extent. He’s fought enough people who could take the blows. But not this time
I gotta say, this is an EXCELLENT analysis of this season, and goes to show how deep the show actually is, compared to what the general viewer sees on the surface.
I love having read the comics knowing why everything was done this way and having it make sense meanwhile just watching people be like "smh shoulda been Anissa." Like, don't fucking worry guys. When she comes back she is gonna ruin Mark, just you trust me and my experience
@@mygetawayart I see you too have my knowledge. The show is either gonna get canceled by Twitter when it happens, or it's gonna be praised for having the guts to show it.
thank you for this, media literacy has really taken a downfall recently and some people need it explained to them that a final conflict doesn’t always have to be person vs person, it’s often person vs self
Completely agree this is how I interpreted the series anyway, I think why there’s some confusion is because of that mid season break where the story was more thematic I feel people would’ve forgot all the subtle remarks about mark being like his dad in the first half of the series. However I feel like this series being more of a subtle story sets up a really good action packed season 3
What I liked was the subversion of a number of conventions which often appear in comic stories. some of this had already been foreshadowed. Angstrom Levy is first portrayed as the classic genius with a desire to better the world - more, the multiverse - applying his intellect and talents for the betterment of humanity and adhering to a code of empathy and justice. That ambition is ruptured by the accident which changes him - and yet his actions on that day exemplify the values which underpin his original dream: he will not allow his utopian ideals to be founded upon the death of an innocent, for he has the compassion to recognise that the Mark we know is not simply the same person as the countless others Levy has witnessed murder thousands. Instead, he sacrifices himself for another - and lives up to his ideals. In other superhero stories, there have been a few common paths from here. First, there is the 'hero turned villain' whereby the character undergoes a reversal in their philosophy and humanitarian values, seeking their opposite - either because they think events proved their old values wrong, or simply seeking payment for their prior sacrifices. The second, related but distinct path, is one whereby they determine to use their intellect to impose their utopian dreams upon a world which they now view as unwilling or incapable of accepting or creating that utopia without their will. They attempt to impose themselves as an authoritarian leader upon humanity 'for their own good' - betraying some of their own principles whilst believing that it is the only way to save them. We have seen this from Dr Doom to Magneto. This can lead to a third path, where that character later undergoes a redemption arc, returning to a more idealistic and peaceful philosophy after conflict and debate. Angstrom Levy didn't get the chance to follow any of these paths. I appreciated that the writers focused upon the trauma that someone would go through due to the accident. Levy experiences horrific physical and mental trauma, which leaves him unable to choose a path rationally. Instead, he is overwhelmed by the rush of superimposing memories and their related views of who he really is. He is overwhelmed by shame and self-loathing at his physical appearance, which he discovers neither his intellect nor compassion for others can overcome. he instead focuses upon the loss of the person that he used to be, and comes to see himself as a cruel mockery of that ideal. Unable to focus long enough to make use of his genius to forge a productive path, his emotions lead him to protect himself from his trauma by fixating upon Mark as the cause of his situation. He commits terrible brutality upon him and his family, not as part of some intricate plan, but merely as a way to express his frustrations. At first, we think that Mark, who remembers the man Levy once was and what he did to save him, is going to be able to get through to Levy's mind and convince him of the right path to take - but it soon becomes clear that Levy has simply been talking as if it has some higher purpose, flitting wildly from one position to another without any seeming logic, until he finally admits that his desire is in fact to simply inflict the suffering he feels onto them. Ultimately, when Mark is goaded into acting out his own fears and emotions, the story seems to end with the destruction of the last scrap of Angstrom Levy's dream with the corruption of Mark himself... ... and yet. Mark will never forget what happened here, and the significance of the choices which every person has to make in order to live ethically, especially those with great power - be it physical, mental, economic or political. The betrayal of his father was a similar moment, but Mark had determined that, so long as he rejected the cultural values of the Viltrumites and cared for his family and friends, he was incapable of committing the kinds of brutal acts his father had done, suppressing his fears by focusing upon acts of heroism. Now, he must wrestle with the reality of whether the capacity for acts of violence and oppression exist within all of us when our emotions are not examined, and what it takes to acknowledge and them overcome this with compassion. I think that he will find a path, and in doing so, Angstrom Levy's dream will be reborn and his sacrifice justified.
I felt the same both after season 1 and season 2 finale. Relief. Such a great evil as nolan was exiled... the mechanism matters... but the important thing is he was turned, he stopped, he left. As for Levi: Mark killed a dangerous lunatic and managed to get back to his home dimension. Relief. I dont feel like Mark is going to turn to the darkside. Mark isnt, nor should be, Batman. You SHOULD KILL some people. Angstrom Levi mutated and out of his mind is one such person.
I'll be honest, this could have been a better take. I love this channel, and I've always seen good content here, but having read the comics I think that people have the wrong idea about what Invincible is. It isn't Avatar or Breaking Bad or any other show with immaculate planning and drawn-out character arcs like other shows may have, it is literally 60% one-off encounters and vibes throughout the very long comic saga. There isn't a "big bad" per season like other shows, because that's just not how the comics wanted things to work. This season follows the comics very closely, just like season 1, and while season 1 had a solid conclusion, season 2 is basically a few chapters of buildup in the comics. I'm not going to spoil the comics (please read them though they're great even if the artstyle for the first issues is kinda funky) because it'd ruin a lot of people's enjoyment of the show, but this season could never have had a solid conclusion like the first one did. I was very surprised that season 1 convered so little ground when I first watched it, but I think that they used it to essentially make a tightly-bound season conclusion with a high-note, something I now realise can only be done maybe thrice in the entire comic series. Invincible isn't a classic superhero comic or a manga, it's a multi-character anthology with an enthralling world that does not focus on the main plotline more than is absolutely necessary, at least in the comics. It doesn't wrap things up neatly every issue, or even every 50 issues, and that's something I really hope people can get along with going forward, because I love this show and how well it's adapted it's source material, to the point where the show has superior characterisation and events, in my opinion. I really hope that people don't get turned off of the show right now, because the next season isn't really going to be that different if the creators don't start meshing plotlines together haphazardly. I really like this channel, but I just think that it's far too early to take such a broad look at Mark's character in the setting at this time with such intensity. It'd be like looking at Aang's character journey between episodes 1 and 2 of Avatar. It's an amazing show, so it's there, but you can see why it'd be a bit redundant. Also, for a few points here you made some statements about what this season is leading up to, and they were really just wrong, as much as I don't like to say it. I hope that you can read the comics if you have the time, and I'm still really glad you enjoyed this season like so many others have. I get that it takes so long to make each season that it's basically impossible to have extremely high hopes, but the way this is looking, it's getting the Attack on Titan treatment. That's the best way I can describe it. If anyone didn't really vibe with season 2, that's fine, and I just recommend being patient or reading the comics so you can pace your expectations and get excited for what's going to happen in the future.
The end of season 2 only feels like a loss because mark was sad and the music was too. But if it had showed mark cheering and looking happy we’d have felt the same way too.
I honestly hate Levi as a villian so much his whole stick is that he is incredibly smart and knows everything that happens in every universe but his grand plan is to kill the one version of Invincible that isn't a bad guy. Like wow genius plan. Like it's so dumb because he knows how rare it is for invincible to be good. Like he is supposed to be smart but all his actions are dumb and only exist to serve the plot of the writers
The reason it feels like it doesn’t have as much buildup as season one is because the story isn’t completed. This is a stepping stone that will make set up the future of the show. Although it was a season finally, it’s only a rising action to the climax of Angstroms story
To me the impact of Nolan saying "I miss my wife" is just as impactful as the ending of season 1. Yea there was no spectacle, but as others in the comments have mentioned if they keep making it bigger the show will suffer for it. Can't wait for season 3
Season 2 was essentially asking the question "How would Mark deal with his father's problems?" The answer it seems that even in the 'best' version of him, he would essentially do the same thing. - Mark upon meeting his father again was ready to let an entire planet die because of his own emotions. - He had to come to terms with an incredibly short-lived species the same way his father must look at humans, even has the same mindset of taking care of his brother "What's one year out of my life to raise him?" - Course during all of his fights (except for the last one) he was holding back, and him holding back was getting everyone else in trouble; yet ironically once there was no one else to worry about it was in that moment he decided to not hold back. An additional irony is that Nolan does the exact same thing, but for different reasons. - Indirectly Mark's actions end up redeeming Nolan, because when placed in similar situations they feel similar emotions, and have similar motivations; and that similarly of course scares Mark greatly because the line between good and evil ends up being razor thin. - Both Nolan and Mark ended up facing the same dilemma: Their morals, or their family; and they both picked their family.
My only gripe with Angstrom is that he didn't go around terrorizing the Marks who actually did turn evil. It'd be cool if he was systematically killing them, and by going down the list, he gets around to "our" Mark.
I absolutely loved the ending, Mark managed not only to visit Batman and roast him, but then got his own Joker and "One Bad Day" all in one evening. That Omni-Man in him came out so strong that he even delivered the exact same beating that he received in the first season from his dad onto Angstrom. Absolutely powerful stuff, bring on season 3
One of the biggest things that let me know this season was less on the story and more on Mark, was the Darkwing sidekick engagement. He problably knows that Mark saved the world from Omniman, but all he cares about, like Angstrum, is that he IS Omniman son. When the Darkwing guy threatens to leave him in some suspended animation universe, about .2% of that viltrimite takes over when he says “I’m Omnimans son… You don’t know what I’m capable of” That Black Air Force energy was just dark enough to make his opponent realize that he was fighting the wrong person for yhe worst reasons and he Noped that crap. I don’t Reddit dive so I don’t know what everyone, especially the comic book nerds, as saying, however the pacing was perfect for every story, when one cliff hanger happened, another was solved. They didn’t drag everything out into some long story they made the story, solved the story, and gave us another one to anticipate, all while showing you how Mark is developing as he comes to grips with his responsibilities that come with his powers.
I think my main issue is how little presence Angstrom had throughout the rest of the season. I almost kind of forgot he was even there for a bit. I get that this fight was really more about Mark fighting himself but it would still have made the confrontation more meaningful if there had been more character development.
This is how I viewed the difference between season 1 and 2's villain arcs. Omni-Man was a Mark Grayson villain as even though he doesn't know it until the final episode, everyone working on the case from Cecil and Darkblood to Debbie is trying to confirm their suspicions with Mark finding out as he idolised his father. Angstrom Levy on the other hand was an Invincible villain, he didn't care about Mark's normal life at all just that he is Invincible and Invincible deserves to die
i think what hurt this season was the release schedule. Had it not released in two parts so far apart from one another people would've felt and remembered all story beats from the first part better. I for one forgot many things. I imagine if i had binged it all the way through, i'd have liked it better. Next season they should drop the whole season back to back.
I think Levy was a disappointment for me because I didn't think he was gonna be the "boss" of the season. He was so much in the background cooking, that I thought maybe he would show himself like he did and then have to dip. Not like "Oh wow what tense scene, how's this gonna play.... oh he's dead...." And no Anissa should not be the "boss" of the season, because then the show would be fucking over lol. People who think that really just want the same fight as season one.
It throws so much stuff at you and so far I'm not convinced, the characters should be feeling the higher stakes and yet they don't they go through the emotions but quickly move on, as it is it's become an amalgamation of multiple superhero tropes that straight up refuse to give you enough time to digest them.
My issue with this season is without that hook the pacing does feel off. For at least the finale, I feel this is easy to change the Guardians needed more to do. Put the Mulit-Paul fight in there it would also help the Kate twist not feel as much out of place for non-comic fans, have her reveal herself during the fight (as the book also does) just without Immortal finding out beforehand, and have him be there because he does he is Kate’s brother. Overall (especially episodes 1, 2, and 8) this season feels like a checklist in the buildup to an end we have not gotten yet. I just wish there was more payoff and this plot point would do that.
I think the main reason it didn’t click for so many people right away is because the release schedule made a lot of people forget about the inner battle Mari had in those early episodes. With the cliffhanger of Omni-Man being captured, and Mark being threatened by the Viltrum empire, I think many people focused on that part of the story during the months off, and not on Mark’s inner demons. If it were released regularly, the connecting thread would probably have been much clearer.
"the real villain was their deep seeded violence" is a character archetype we've seen 3980911920 fimes. It's a trope at this point. Its boring, its played out and it's just trite. Invincible was cool because it did something we've seen a tonne (evil superman) but grounded it, made you think about the humanity of the trope. This isn't that. It's just doing it straight. Levy was so obviously setting up the "will mark finally kill?" That just having a well executed fight would have been the subversive move. Hell, even just ignoring Levy and having the final episode be a character episode would have been subversive. I liked the aftermath, I think it was interesting to see how it affected mark (as i mentioned earlier it's about exploring the humanity not always exolored in the trope) but it wouldn't have been affected if the entire Levy sequence had been cut. Genuinely, 3 panels of Levy threatening Debbie, mark struggling against the portals and mark killing levy, and it would've had no difference in it's impact. So the fact so much time was spent on it when you have 20 far more satisfying emotional beats and plot threads to focus on... Just unsatisfying.
I don't get why it's generally acceptable to say I show is bad because it was slow, or didn't have *enough* action. Season 2 had a lot of action, too. The fight scenes were awesome, and the story was *very* well done. (Voice acting, too). The villain was manic, and out-of-no-where (And many other foil/symbolisms to Marc in this season). He threatens his family, not him. And in his humanity, his empathetic drive to protect, he finally kills a man with his own hands. Marc, in his most human moments, is the most alien. Both his family (his humanity) and his strength (his viltrumite) are weaknesses to him now. Can he protect his family? *should he* protect his family? He is constantly reminded how weak he is, in his failing relationships, and at the hands of one (of many) supervillains. When he says he needs to become stronger, it isn't *just* so he can protect Earth from Viltrum, it's so he won't ever lose control again. I related BIG TIME to Marc this season. As a senior in Highschool I'm wracked with dichotomies and fear for what's to come. Stepping out into something bigger than yourself, leaving behind relationships- really, your life as you knew it- for something you aren't sure about. I've never "He's liwally me'd" a character before, but Marc might be the first.
A smaller side plot I would have liked to see develop more is Immortal and Duplikate’s relationship. We only got a short reason from Duplikate of why she was with Immortal, but never saw that connection happen. It felt odd that Immortal was so racked by her death as we never saw their relationship grow. I felt like one of Amber and Mark’s annoying relationship hiccups could have been replaced with this.
The only thing i thought was weird about the end was the time travel part, like i guess there wasnt really any better way of doing it but it felt out of nowhere
What I also noticed is that the series refuses to tell how far these alternative marks are in terms of time. Could be in the past but ALSO the future. I think Mark's fate is TO become like his father. I think he'll be the true villain towards the end or atleast an anti-hero. There will always be a reason why Mark becomes voilent.
This season did much more for me than the first season. I think that characterization was vastly improved, while I liked omniman more in season 1, and I thought he was better written, this season uses him to pose interesting questions about forgiveness. I didn't like robot season one, he was a huge creep, but this season he got to be a boy and make reasonable mistakes and learn. Rexsplode just became a more enjoyable individual. Amber and Mark had a more interesting relationship that I honestly cared about more. We got a lot of Debby time that I loved. By putting Mark in situations we can't survive his way through like the fight with Levy, the relationship with Amber, meeting his Dad again, and of course meeting his brother- we get to explore Mark's character further, and he becomes less of a reinforced cardboard cutout and more of a real character.
The irony of Levy’s plan is that he’s lashing out at potentially the one dimension where Mark didn’t go villain. Which, in turn, has forced Mark to realize he’s capable of being more Viltrumite if pushed too far. Oh and every comic reader probably had their legs crossed during the Anissa scenes. For… obvious reasons.
I haven't really read the comics (I don't want to spoil the show for me,which I don't usually do but Invincible seem better not really knowing what will happen) so I wonder how far they will take the Mark becoming like his dad thing because at the end of the day he isn't him. Also, I can understand in a way why people found season 2 underwhelming, but I agree it wasn't fully underwhelming, it was and wasn't for me. I loved Donald comforting Rick and them talking about their shared trauma, but Anissa did feel underwhelming, I guess like Levi they can bring her back, but there’s one problem with that. Like everyone has been talking about, in comics Anissa rapes Mark, and now it’s debated if the plot line should be in the show, here are some arguments and justifications for the plot line and my thoughts on it: Point 1- The rape can feel like it just there for shock value: I understand why people would say this, unfortunately, rape had been put in media for this reason, though there is a counterpoint to this Point 2- It can be a good way to represent Male sexual assault victims/survivors- It can be if done right IDK how well it was handled in the comics, but the show could do it though another point I’ve heard is Point 3- it would be unnecessary to the show, as Mark already going through a struggling arc: I mean he is already gone through a lot in the show, so people saying this have a point out there's the second point to consider The final point is that the rape plot line is causing drama and some people are being gross about it, so the show would be better off not including it. I think even if there is drama, it can be included again respectfully. If any sexaul assault victims/survivors have any thoughts they want to say about this,I’ll hear them.
This show is genuinely some of the best television I’ve seen in my life. It feels like the final form of superhero storytelling. Every trope and writing technique honed until razor sharp. So yeah I guess you could say I liked season 2. I didn’t think anything could make me feel worse than the train scene but Angstrom’s death managed to do that *comfortably*.
@@matthewseggelink1192 show will not get respect in both cases, it's writing is pathetic and dumb down of originally unique superhero parody. I may have issues with comic but show is just straight up assassination of everything comic was and turned into something itself despised in superheroes. Thank God that X-men 97 acutally deliver on being good and have actual example of good character writing and cinematography.
I always knew there was no way Angstrom was going to be a serious threat to mark. They pretty well showed that it takes a lot to kill a viltrimite and Angstrom wasn't going to be capable of doing that. This season felt more like mark coming to terms with the fact that he can't just take the passive route and hold back. The viltrimites are willing to kill and mark needs to be willing to kill them. Angstrom was there for one reason and one reason only. He was Mark's first kill
i also think the biggest reason that it felt underwhelming was just how they were released, 8 episodes is already short enough, but the fact it was 2, 4 episode bursts that were once a week made it feel like 2 4 episode season and the second 4 were just not as good, i might rewatch season 2 in one sitting but the first time i watched it has been ruined by how amazon chose to release it
Looking ahead to overarching themes in the story of how society deals with its villians - season 2 leans really nicely into it. Setting it up correctly for later seasons to land their own philosophical punches
Idk about anyone else but I was extremely satisfied with the fight. There was no way to peacefully resolve the Levi fight. His motivations were not logical because he was projecting the terrible things other Mark's did to other versions of himself onto the one Mark who didn't do anything to him (lets be real the accident was entirely his fault. He decided to interrupt the machine despite the warning from the mauler twins and he easily could have built the machine in a dead world with no risk of interference, instead hiring breaking known violent criminals out of prison, making intervention from a hero extremely likely). Mark was incredibly patient too. He had multiple opportunities to speed blitz and kill Levi bjt he held back and repeatedly tried to reason with him as he hurt and endangered his family. He also couldn't be taken down nonlethally because his abilities make him practically impossible to contain. He can't be reasoned with and can't be imprisoned. Until he was put in the ground he would cobtinue to be a threat to Mark and more importantly his family. I know Mark blames himself but he has time and time again risked his own life for his principles about not killing, but a villian gave him the choice of either killing or letting g his family die and Mark made the choice anyone would. In my eyes I saw the amount of hesitation and regret as further proof that Mark is extremely far from his other selves, but I think he needs to be more like them or he won't be able to protect earth from the viltrumite invasion. Nolan told him on Thracan that he needs to be willing to kill because other viltrumites won't hesitate.
The timeline for the series is such a breath of fresh air, at first I was incredibly concerned with Angstrom Levy's introduction, especially in the wake of the "Multiverse fatigue" set up by the MCU, this whole concept of there being infinite dimensions and infinite possibilities, and thus nothing really matters. You can always just replace a character with another version of themselves from a universe in which everyone is a copy of them or something. The show writers seemingly knew from the start that this was something that had to be addressed, and so they made sure to give the concept limitations, make it clear that this all begins and ends with Levy (within the current dimension and timeline anyways) and focus on the growth of OUR Mark. Then events from the comics got shuffled around to avoid pitfalls such as the reliance on timeskips to artificially bring an arc to it's conclusion immediately. I'm so glad that they've decided to improve the base material in such a way, I don't think following the comic's timeline would've worked at all.
Mark needs to accept his darkness and embrace it instead of fight against it and ultimately lose against it. By accepting that it is always a part of you you can be the one in control of it instead of it being in control of you. The darkness will always and forever be there, once you accept that you can learn that you can use it to help yourself out and keep it in check. I have done this, would you rather your darkness be your demons that fight against you or your soldiers that fight along side you?
With all this talk about the "real throughline" of the season, I'm surprised there was no mention of the title screen. Season 1's progressively got bloodier to foreshadow Mark getting beaten to a pulp. Season 2's shows the title screen cracking and breaking to foreshadow Mark cracking under the pressure and breaking his rule of "No killing".
The problem with Mark's arch in this season is that they portray it as his Human half versus his Viltrumite half, when the "dark parts" of him are still 100% human. Any reasonable human could have been driven to kill Levi in a similar situation. Take away the super powers and you've basically just got a hostage standoff with guns, and if Mark had just shot him then no one would be having this conversation. And the other supers kill people all the time without anyone calling them a monster, so the show seems to reserve this internal conflict to Mark alone which really undermines its impact. So when Cecil tries to pull on Mark's guilt it just seems like manipulation rather than an actual moral conundrum. Hell, even Nolan's internal conflict seems more believable.
I binged the comics during the mid season break and I keep having to stop myself from screaming at speculation where this goes lmfao. If you weren't feeling this season, stick with it, trust me.
Levy is not the big bad, just another way to introduce struggle for the Main Character. I like that they gave him the multiple memory confusion. The comic just lets him be wrong without justifying his actions. Spoiler: Levy will be back
I was disappointed at first with the finale because I read the comic a decade ago so I had expectations of a different order of events for the show to fit a more action oriented climax. They kept the same emotional finale which i agree is more impactful since it better followed the theme of the season but I cant lie I was a bit deflated. It's like across the spiderverse, once I knew what i was getting it was more enjoyable on a second watch. Anyways spot on analysis
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Hey, man. Great video. While slightly underwhelming I thought it was a great season.
Also, do you remember that video you did on Amber? Well… look I’m not gonna shame you for trying to defend her, but I think you just misinterpreted why people hate her.
It’s more about how she was never portrayed as in the wrong and Mark was shown as completely in the wrong by the story and other characters. It would’ve been better if it turned out she somehow knew for weeks and instead Mark revealed his identity, she apologises for yelling at him but questions if they’ll probably have too many problems and isn’t sure it would be worth getting back together.
I’m sorry, that just would’ve made their breakup feel way more impactful in season 2. The acting was great in that, but I just kept on remembering how she shamed him for keeping his identity a secret even though it would’ve been life changing for him, especially after dating for a few months, and she didn’t tell him she knew.
@@insectostrich4407 you’ve not ruined my day because these don’t really counter the points I made in that video, they’re just reiterating the same tired complaints. You’re free to feel that way, but none of them are ‘flaws’ in the writing or anything.
Smart people like Amber aren’t automatically _instantly & consistently rational beings_ in emotional beings (especially when they’re in their teens), 5 months is a pretty long time, actually, she’s yelling at him (while knowing) because she’s upset (😲!) and I _just don’t agree_ that season 1 positions her as totally 100% correct for her actions - see the final/epsiode 8 scene I reference in the Amber video. Because, yeah, this is all in that video. I’m not sure why you didn’t like the counters I made in it, but to me they remain as valid now as they were then.
Edit: for anyone wondering why this comment no longer makes a great deal of sense as a reply, the person I’m responding to edited theirs
@@PillarofGarbage Oh sorry. I didn’t realise you were typing. Anyway, to respond to your response. I understand what you’re are trying to say, but it just doesn’t work because there’s literally no moment where Amber was called out, it’s just William and Eve saying he was a terrible boyfriend and he got what he deserved. And yes, it makes sense she wouldn’t think rationally as a teenager all the time, but it doesn’t make sense in a situation where like this where she knows Mark is the hero who saved them. That’s why it should never have been revealed she knew.
I know the writers were just trying to show a parallel between Omni-Man lying to Debbie, but it doesn’t work with how it’s executed.
@@insectostrich4407 The only other thing I’ll add now is that if you think the only way a show can position behaviour as good/bad is with a scene of explicit, textual ‘calling out’ I think you’re approaching TV in a rather shallow way.
@@PillarofGarbageonce again, really sorry to bring this up and beat a dead horse, but it just impacted invincible in negative way. I understand why you’re sick of the ranting and videos on why Amber is bad. However, it’s a problem that needs to be addressed.
See in the comics she was angry at Mark for disappearing, but had no idea he was Invincible. And when he revealed himself she was so happy and got back together.
So, I would keep the not knowing part, but change her reaction to finding out. Like I said have her question if it would be worst getting back together and then after the Omni-Man fight have them get back together. Making the breakup in season 2 so much more heartbreaking.
Obviously it was the release schedule.
fair actually
@@PillarofGarbagei’d honestly go as far to say it’s reaction is directly proportional to this reaction at least subtly.
Legit took the words out of my mouth
Fact
Agreed, I was going to say it was Amazon lol
Steven Yuen fucking killed it this season, ESP in the finale. It's easy to forget because he's surrounded by industry vets like JK Simmons and Clancy Brown but with the finale alone he's put himself among the greats in voice acting.
couldn’t agree more, I can’t imagine anyone else in the role
And Mark Hamil 🙄😂
Fr every emotional scene he does be it rage or sadness, chills.
the "oh no, poor angstrom" line was such an amazing performance it's stuck in my head
@@grhmcrck Sociopath versions of Mark like that are so funny yet so terrifying. It's like this surface level niceness about committing his horrible deeds, our Mark's kindness twisted into something very dark.
The real villain was the evil amazon scheduling.
And the addition of unskipable ads into paid service. Like what the fuck
Bruh i thought my shit got downgraded @Etticos.
Be a pirate
@@ceequesburneracc what?
Seth rogan
A common theme I picked up on this season was doubt and subsequent reflection. We get a lot of scenes where characters are shaken and forced to reflect on who they are. Mark repeatedly doubts his ability to hold a stable relationship with Amber, work together with both Cecil and the Guardians and even whether he's any different from his father. Season 1 showed Mark get repeatedly beaten down physically, but Season 2 chipped away at him emotionally and mentally and it all culminates with Angstrom Levy. He's not the villainous mastermind working in the shadows, he's the straw that broke the camel's back. Mark has been getting pushed and pushed to his mental limits all season so when Angstrom portals in and hurts Mark's family, it causes all of the stress to boil over and ultimately kill Angstrom.
As Rex puts it, "Everybody f*cks up. To f*ck up is to be human ... [We've] all sh*t the bed at least once."
As far as animated pep talks go, it's up there with Todd telling BoJack, "You do the Hokey Pokey, and you turn yourself around. You TURN YOURSELF AROUND."
I'm glad you bring up the dichotomy of season 1 and 2, as the major complaint prior to the finale of season 2 I saw online was "why can't Mark beat anyone" even though he does win, it's just when he does it's not a substantial threat or he squashes it before it becomes one, excluding the Sequids. Season 1 showed us how utterly powerless Mark is as a hero at times, and takes some heavy losses physically. Season 2 showed us how even if Mark has the capability to win, he still loses as Angstrom expertly displays this, he lost control. Much like in the show, to the fanbase Mark just can't win, which is kinda poetic.
Also wanna add the fact he's still fairly new to all this still, he's not an aged veteran, he's not even an adult. He's trying to make decisions on the fly without experience or composure. Granted I truly believe if he weighed up his options, Angstrom would had to have been stopped. It's just he couldn't reach that conclusion before reaching into the depths of rage, which isn't the hero Mark wanted to be. As we even see flashbacks to when Mark said to Omni-Man he wants to be just like him after he gets back to his Earth and is flying at speed to basically release all his frustration to himself. Mark has a built up idea of what a hero is. I love Mark as a character because he's not just relatable in one sense or another, tackling with taking a life and how much power you truly have vs times where you can't do a single thing, it's odd to say but most all people will encounter moments like this in their life and how they handle them defines them, as it does Invincible.
Only reason it FELT lackluster was because we waited four months for only four episodes. Definitely still an amazing season.
The release schedule was the true villain. More evil than any villain Mark or any hero will ever face 😱
Hope they don't ever do that shit again
@@skankhunt4767they’ve been getting too comfortable with some of their decisions. That only leads to complicity and a degradation of quality if left unchecked and unchallenged. I think amazon can continue to make invincible great as a show. That’s if they remain aware of what makes it great. That scheduling was a big L that pissed many off
@@SoulburgersSoll enough people are complaining about it that I don’t think they’ll do it again (if they’re smart)
@@lilricebowl9731 maybe, if they’re smart and care about maintaining views. They’re however extremely large, so if they deem invincible to not be profitable enough they could potentially cancel it. All possibilities, to what degree I’m not sure as contracts make things a lil funny.
The finale worked very well for me. It hit hard when he realized that he not only lost control but that he wanted to, that Levy pushed the right buttons for him to do something he didn't know he was capable. I also love how Cecil's attempt to help Mark was such a black and white/hollow attempt to soothe Mark's turmoil.
Yeah I thought it was super interesting that Cecil through the whole season is like "Meh you're acting just like your dad rn" and then the second he genuinely does an act like his dad he goes "Nah man what? Nahhh. Nah man ur good."
Yeah i disagree with the video and this take. Like I think that was the writers' goal, to make Mark lose control and the audience think "Oh wow is Mark actually a loose cannon?" but it didn't land for me. It felt forced.
Like Mark is so shaken by the fact that he killed a guy, a guy who held his mother and brother hostage, threatened them, threw a knife at them with intent to kill, and then intended to kill Mark and they fought for a while. Responding to that by killing Angstrom is... a pretty normal and reasonable reaction for anyone in such a circumstance. All the clips during the season of other, evil Marks feel completely disconnected from the Mark we know (and it feels like essentially wasted screentime) because they are entirely different characters. At no point did I ever think "Oh man, I hope our Mark doesn't become that!" because he's already demonstrated repeatedly that he isn't like those other Marks. He didn't join Omni-man because of his human love for his family, friends, and the species as a whole. He told Anissa to F off based on morals, even though Cecil himself encouraged him to say yes. He tried to protect the bug people against the Viltramites because the bug people were innocent. All he's ever done is demonstrate an unwavering commitment to do what's right, and the show tries to force this dynamic that he's uncontrollable or that he's a danger to those around him. It wasnt a bad season, but Season 1 was far better (even with awful Amber).
@@aaronb6878 I do not feel like it's intent was to make Mark seem capable of "evil" or "uncontrollable" so much as to show that Mark didn't think himself capable of that. Now he has to realize that not only is that want/ need to end a threat with death normal for most people, especially those with the power to do so, that its as human as much as it is Viltrumite. Having to contend with that want while having so much power will have to be part of his future training. If he wants to keep himself from taking what seems like the easiest option in killing someone and search for a better solution, finding more tools than violence will have to part of said training. The fact that Mark WANTS to do this is a large part of WHY this Mark is different. You can't just look at the previous actions, you have to look at all of who Mark is even as he learns about himself. He is still a teenager after all. That's where my mind went when I saw the final episode.
I feel we kind of got that beat in episode 4 already which made if feel less impactful to me here.
One thing I really loved in this season is how they've been slowly teasing what the idea of a visceral and adrenaline-filled Mark would look like and how it would look like if Mark truly stopped holding back, and that ties into the comics/show exploration into the moral complexity of heroism. When we see Mark go all out and beat the living s*** out of Angstrom, we feel thrilled and satisfied to finally see what they've been building up to; however, just like Mark, we eventually/slowly come to the realisation that Mark is killing Angstrom was not epic win we had in mind but seeing Mark become just like his father and lose control in a fit of rage (rage which was justified given that Angstrom did deserve it), and only validate what Angstrom has been saying with almost every universe having become evil. We have to learn how to understand Mark's perspective and what it means to control his mind and body to not reflect what Angstrom was saying with other Marks in the multiverse, how the world sees Mark, or how he sees himself becoming like his dad, and learn to be better.
Especially with how the music starts off triumphantly and then becomes distorted when he pins Levy to the ground. That was the line Mark crossed, when he had the opportunity to walk away.
angstrom did not deserve to die he had a noble cause which mark ruined out of ignorance and then was forced to live through insanity.
@@klaw6368 Having a sad backstory doesn't justify any villain, it just makes them more sympathetic. Angstrom was still willing to kill a baby. His original intentions don't change that.
@@bloodredhanded he had good reason to kill this potential genocidal vilturmite baby
except it doesnt even matter later on in the story as both mark and eve, and i quote, “being a hero is bullsh*t”
The real villain is how long they are making us wait for mark and eve.
Trust me dude it’s worth the wait
@connie4334 Seems like people complained so much about gingercide, they contemplated raceswapping Amber or Eve and chose to change Amber. Starfire, Iris West, Jimmy Olsen, Ariel all received backlash so they chose the blonde one this time
@@suezcontours6653Honestky, Zazie Beetz is good, so I don’t mind the change. I am curious if the decision was made before or after the casting process began.
Give Mark some time, they JUST broke up, like, a day ago canonically. Eve x Mark shippers really tweaking over nothing
@@suezcontours6653reaching
Angstrom Levy is not THE big bad. Season 2 wasn’t constructed around a big final villain like Omni-Man in Season 1. The season was built more around various events in Mark’s life that were building in severity and frequency. All of that intensified by Mark’s underlying trauma and fear of becoming his father. Mark’s trauma was the real villain. And Angstrom was the personification of Mark’s fears. The idea that Mark was just another violent Viltrumite no matter how much he fought against it. It’s a fight against this predestined narrative that he will always be his father at the end of the day.
I love the idea behind Angstrom being used to represent Mark’s character. His mind has been jumbled up with all of the memories of his counterparts and the vast majority of universes show Mark embracing being a Viltrumite. The implication is that even though this Mark is a hero, he still has similar traits to his counterparts when it comes to violence.
Mark’s decision at the end represents that Mark still feels that same rage that is emblematic of Viltrumites and now Mark has to wrestle with the fact that deep down he can be just as aggressive as a Viltrumite. Mark beat Angstrom the same way Nolan beat Mark in the Season 1 finale. Essentially the multiverse is used as a way to explore Mark’s character as opposed to fanservice cameos……although those Spider-Man and Batman scenes were fire 😏
This season is a masterpiece. Not only did it meaningfully address Mark's journey toward self-acceptance by showing why Earth needs him as Invincible, but it understood with relationships such as Oliver and Debbie that people need Mark, too. Even though the emotional highs may not reach the same as in season 1, they have a consistent heart throughout each episode with a much more self-realized supporting cast. How many other Superhero shows can you think of where a character like Donald has equal depth to the protagonist? Finally, the ending. Most season 2 finales either resolve every plot thread or leave a cliffhanger, but the fact that it could do both, just like season 1, shows these showrunners can capture lightning in a bottle twice. Amazon should be careful not to rush their next season again.
I agree with most of what you said except the very last part. What part of this season was rushed? It took 2.5 years to begin and if that’s rushing then this series is going to take like 20 years to finish lol
@@caseyhart4999 Cool. I mean rush the release date. They weren't finished with the animation since they took that break. I argue that Amazon should let the season get finished before promising a release date.
@@BatAmerica I do agree with that. I just hope there’s some way we can get it in under 2 years please lol this season was indeed a masterpiece.
@@caseyhart4999I agree, if that is possible, it would be fantastic.
This show really is "Superheroes, but Humanism". It's one of the only shows I've watched where it legitimately feels like all the characters are their own people, with their own stories, lives and journeys to self-actualisation - they're used to further the plot, sure, but they all act in natural ways given their situation and history.
I feel like it's because angstrom wasn't really in the season that much, he really showed up only in the first episode and a bunch of post credit scenes. But to me, it kind of makes sense for him, he is kinda supposed to be the over the top evil arch enemy with a bad reason. It kinda makes sense how less time he has. Mark doesn't even really know him at all. He is more of a tool to push mark's character rather than being a real character himself. He sets up Mark's development to quit college and focus on himself getting stronger and being able to compete with future foes like the viltrumite army. I still liked it tho.
I feel like its a byproduct of the comics, where characters will just kinda reappear for one issue after being teased in the last page of the previous one, doesn't always necessarily work better for a far more serialized tv show.
I think even the show itself makes a point that it isn't about Angstrom when Mark doesn't remember him, which is quite funny. Angstrom is just a guy pissed at Invincible that managed to get under his skin and make him lose control.
I liked it, and yeah, looking at it this way, Season 2 ends up being Mark's story more than Season 1 did. It makes sense that Nolan took a backseat. We've seen the confliction Nolan had, and in Season 1, Mark's confliction was more with Nolan than the personal one he had in Season 2. It also makes sense why, despite losing the fight, Season 1's ending was explicitly hopeful, while Season 2 is comparatively a downer and melancholy.
"It was me barry"
This show deserves so many more episodes. I think the best part of Invincible is the dialogue, the vulnerable conversations and exploration of character. I think this season really brought that side of the comics out. I can't wait for the next seasons which are truly the peak Invincible arcs in terms of action and story.
something i noticed is how our mark never smiles in costume, but the evil ones do
People disliked this season? That’s crazy. The show juggles so much, it’s very impressive.
Although it’s not as great as Season 1, Season 2 is still very solid! In fact, there’s more emotional weight added in Season 2, thanks to the story focusing on Mark’s and Debbie’s struggles after Nolan left Earth.
@@halloweenfridayinvincible it seems grows up and is just maturing, I’m seeing people who think S2 was setup and only setup, but S2 imo is way more complete cause it bounces off season 1 so perfectly. It’s all an aftermath of Omni man S1, but time continues to move on so more shit still happens while they’re dealing with trauma from before. It’s a mature show and I thought they did a great job
the season was amazing, but man, i feel like the animation quality dipped like hell. often during scenes where characters just talk, their entire bodies held stiff poses while only their lips kept moving, which was really uncanny
I love this season and the emotional development of the characters. The finale episode was a bit abrupt. Maybe it needed another scene. But it was clear that Mark is afraid of becoming his dad in order to protect those he loves, and Omni man, his father is becoming more human to protect the ones he love.
The line, "I miss my wife" was great
Exactly how I felt. Seemed beyond obvious to me, no clue how people are missing the seasonal through line
In retrospect, this season carries the theme of "How does one preserves their humanity over barbarism while responding to conflict with violence?".
And if I go with the different answers that different moments of the comics have come up with :
season 1 : by taking the violence from others.
season 2 : by exercising restraint (oops, it didn't work)
season 3 : by meeting out violence only on those who deserve it from a righteous man (oops, that doesn't work either)
Viltrumite war : By using violence in service of protecting the homeland
and this is where I'm at now, in the aftermath of the viltrumite war : You kinda don't actually, you have to let go of the violence and talk, negotiate with people.
Excited to see where this goes next.
Another great video!
To us, the whole “trying not to be like my dad” thing feels a little weird because Mark doesn’t act like Nolan, he acts like a regular teenager with an extreme amount of power that he’s still getting used to.
It would make sense to us if it was *just* Mark feeling that way and maybe some people compared them to get under his skin, but it feels like the show wants us to think that Mark is really starting to show his “Viltrumite side”.
Like if someone did your mom (or someone else you care a lot about) like Angstrom Levy did Debbie you would almost certainly beat their ass the first chance you got, and if you’d only had super strength for a couple years you would definitely kill that person by accident at the very least.
Tldr: Mark isn’t like Nolan, he’s just a teenager with extreme trauma and more power than he can control atm.
But that’s the thing. A regular teenager with an extreme amount of power is terrifying. If that kind of behavior persists then you could end up with a might makes right hierarchical society like the Viltrumites. Viltrumites represent humans who completely forego any sense of compassion in favor of strength above all else. They are completely obsessed with power that weakness is seen as a disease. Any hint of empathy or compassion is weeded out because to them it makes them powerless.
When one has that much power, the weight of their actions has loads more consequences. Most people can lose control and be fine. But since Mark has the power to break the world he has to be more careful. He can’t just easily give in to his aggression. Especially because there is little to nothing on Earth that can stop him. He has to have more self-control than the average person. This is what the alternate Marks reveal about Mark. That deep down he can be just as violent as a regular Viltrumite and that he won’t always be able to control himself.
I think people dont understand that what Nolan did led to Mark having a moral compass similar to Batman and Spider-Man. He knows how powerful and potentially dangerous he is, why is why he consciously puts limits on himself. He knows that if he allows himself to kill, that will have a domino effect and he will graduallg grow more and more similar to traditional viltrumites.
This is also why even though Anissa has him beat, he has no way of winning the fight, he doesnt even think about lying about agreeing with Viltrum. He would rather die "honourably" knowing he didnt break his moral compass, even if he knows deep down that pragmatically that was a very risky move
A thing- he acts like asshole in the comic and there is clear "I do is right so shut up" attitude while still showing empathy. Show just makes him moopy and not engage in casual jerk behaviour which got later reinterpreted as him becoming more like evil Marks.
@@mikhaelgribkov4117 we didn’t really see it as him being an asshole, more like he’s a teenager trying to figure things out on his own and doesn’t want the help/advice of the adults, though I can definitely see how you can consider that as him being an asshole
@@Ren_Davis0531 yeah, but having more power doesn’t automatically make you more like the people who only value power. It’d be different if after losing control he found himself enjoying it like a full-blooded viltrumite. There are more differences between viltrumites and humans than just their powers and abilities. Oliver is actually a perfect example, he *actually* starts acting like Nolan and it’s a problem.
I felt underwhelmed at the climax of the Angstrom fight. My first thought was “wait, has he really not killed anyone before?” I could have sworn he’s definitely killed a few giant monsters. And during the Flaxan invasion he was throwing around tanks, and giving people time cancer. I guess killing someone in self defense who was repeatedly threatening you and your family just didn’t feel like a moral failing to me.
When I saw Mark trying to justify his killing of Levy to himself and eventually realizing he genuinely lost control, I was chilled. This is a guy fighting himself every day. Good stuff.
Dude could have been the greatest hero of all worlds and instead chose to become a villain of one.
16 you mean
From a filmmaking perspective, the ending of Mark vs Angstrom is blocked and framed very similarly to Nolan vs Mark. Only Mark is now in his father's position, crouching over someone lying beneath him, utterly unmoving. Mark is even on his dad's side of the frame (he's frame left, Angstrom is frame right). Both Mark in S2 and Nolan in S1 take a moment to look at their hands as they realize what they're doing.
I think this is part of what makes it so uncomfortable. The show is very intentionally reminding you of last season's finale and drawing attention to how the script has been flipped.
I can't believe this guy only has 100K subs. His videos are so well done and written
Was less of a direct conflict and more of an inner conflict and I think that's equally as important to explore.
People said that season 2 was gonna be slower than season 1 but hit harder and it's a gateway to season 3, and imo it served it's role perfectly
We see him be evil as much as we saw OmniMan be evil, but OmniMan wasn't always being evil. He was a main character, that built up his betrayal. We just don't have Angstrom in the story as much, not in a full Sense. So even think i loved it, i still don't feel like i know Angstrom as much as i knew Nolan. That said he will return, so there's more time to really feel his menace.
Thank you for this video. Finally someone understands the reason Angstrom Levy exists as a villain to Mark and why it matters for Invincible. Two lines that go unmentioned which I think you should of mentioned was Rex to Mark in episode 7 telling him no one could of come back from what he had suffered through and Eve at the ending moment of episode 8 telling Mark he does not deserve this. This whole season was about breaking Mark and in the end it happened, is Mark truly Inv....
Liked the season a lot, the only thing that was strange was how Mark kinda ignored the viltrumite threat after returning to Earth after meeting Nolan. In not a single moment he warned Cecil and the others or started to really prepare. You can point this to characterization, sure, he's basically a teenager trying to juggle different parts of his life, but it still feels a bit off. The rest I liked a lot, it did feel that the villain was underdeveloped, but with what presented on the video, I'm starting to like it more
I knew about the Invincible war for years and I didn't get to read it in depth. I was able to read up to when the Viltrumites got Nolan and read a head due to the comics being bought and I had to read what was out there.
I like the idea of you being the only good one while most other versions of you chose wrong or became evil. This was almost seen in Multiverse of Madness but it didn't go that way.
The invincible war in comics is only 1 chapter so I really hope the show does it Justice. 8 invincible nuking all of earth should be way more than 1 chapter.
@@The-Legend-of-P it's not one chapter but spread through different on going series because DC and Marvel do that as well. They make the event crossover into other comics to get a different perspective from another character.
@@mandalorianhunter1 they do the invincible war in the other invincible comic series? Ig that’s fine but I still think the main Invincible war should be more than a slideshow chapter
@@The-Legend-of-P I'm talking about Imagine comics characters stories like two Marks appeared in Tech Jacket, one appeared in Spawn ect
@@mandalorianhunter1 ohhh ok ok 👍 I didn’t know image comics did that, all Ik are the spin-offs comics exist and stuff but that’s it. That’s super cool tho
4:06 LMAOOOO
Boy oh boy you’re in for a surprise
I’m aware of Invincible War - here I’m talking about what these alternate Marks accomplish in _this_ season.
While this is a good point, I think you are missing something in your analysis: Mark is still just a kid. He might be in college, but the dilemmas he is encountering are the ones we all face when we get the first whiff of adult society in college. He just has the gargantuan responsibility of...you know...being Invincible on top of everything.
In my opinion, calling him the villain might be bit of a stretch. I think a better way of putting it would be that is he both the hero and the villain of the season, because, frankly, we all are both the hero and the villain in our own respective stories when we are figuring out the person we want to become in our late teens/early adulthood. Mark is Invincible, but at the end of the day, just like everyone else, he is struggling with what he *wants* to do, and what he *should* do.
I think the focus on levy reflects marks view on the situation. He barely remembered the guy, and only gave him any consideration when his family was threatened by him. It’s intense and a cool fight for a bit. But it ends quicker than you’d expect, and mark feels the same. He thought he was stronger, that he could take marks pent up anger built over the course of days trapped in different dimensions. It’s a great scene, where a good hearted guy encounters the perfect opportunity to let off too much steam. He got caught up in the drama, in the genre of superhero’s to some extent. He’s fought enough people who could take the blows. But not this time
I gotta say, this is an EXCELLENT analysis of this season, and goes to show how deep the show actually is, compared to what the general viewer sees on the surface.
I love having read the comics knowing why everything was done this way and having it make sense meanwhile just watching people be like "smh shoulda been Anissa." Like, don't fucking worry guys. When she comes back she is gonna ruin Mark, just you trust me and my experience
it's a *whole* other kind of ruining
@@mygetawayart I see you too have my knowledge. The show is either gonna get canceled by Twitter when it happens, or it's gonna be praised for having the guts to show it.
@@heavymusicguy8227I can’t see it getting canceled. How would that even work.
@@arbitarious I don't mean literally canceled, I mean canceled like people whining about it on Twitter
@@heavymusicguy8227 oh. I mean I guess. My understanding is that lots of boys will do the whole “ why couldn’t it be me” type situation.
thank you for this, media literacy has really taken a downfall recently and some people need it explained to them that a final conflict doesn’t always have to be person vs person, it’s often person vs self
Completely agree this is how I interpreted the series anyway, I think why there’s some confusion is because of that mid season break where the story was more thematic I feel people would’ve forgot all the subtle remarks about mark being like his dad in the first half of the series. However I feel like this series being more of a subtle story sets up a really good action packed season 3
Mark simply doesn't think before he acts, he'll learn eventually
What I liked was the subversion of a number of conventions which often appear in comic stories. some of this had already been foreshadowed. Angstrom Levy is first portrayed as the classic genius with a desire to better the world - more, the multiverse - applying his intellect and talents for the betterment of humanity and adhering to a code of empathy and justice.
That ambition is ruptured by the accident which changes him - and yet his actions on that day exemplify the values which underpin his original dream: he will not allow his utopian ideals to be founded upon the death of an innocent, for he has the compassion to recognise that the Mark we know is not simply the same person as the countless others Levy has witnessed murder thousands. Instead, he sacrifices himself for another - and lives up to his ideals.
In other superhero stories, there have been a few common paths from here. First, there is the 'hero turned villain' whereby the character undergoes a reversal in their philosophy and humanitarian values, seeking their opposite - either because they think events proved their old values wrong, or simply seeking payment for their prior sacrifices. The second, related but distinct path, is one whereby they determine to use their intellect to impose their utopian dreams upon a world which they now view as unwilling or incapable of accepting or creating that utopia without their will. They attempt to impose themselves as an authoritarian leader upon humanity 'for their own good' - betraying some of their own principles whilst believing that it is the only way to save them. We have seen this from Dr Doom to Magneto. This can lead to a third path, where that character later undergoes a redemption arc, returning to a more idealistic and peaceful philosophy after conflict and debate.
Angstrom Levy didn't get the chance to follow any of these paths. I appreciated that the writers focused upon the trauma that someone would go through due to the accident. Levy experiences horrific physical and mental trauma, which leaves him unable to choose a path rationally. Instead, he is overwhelmed by the rush of superimposing memories and their related views of who he really is. He is overwhelmed by shame and self-loathing at his physical appearance, which he discovers neither his intellect nor compassion for others can overcome. he instead focuses upon the loss of the person that he used to be, and comes to see himself as a cruel mockery of that ideal. Unable to focus long enough to make use of his genius to forge a productive path, his emotions lead him to protect himself from his trauma by fixating upon Mark as the cause of his situation. He commits terrible brutality upon him and his family, not as part of some intricate plan, but merely as a way to express his frustrations. At first, we think that Mark, who remembers the man Levy once was and what he did to save him, is going to be able to get through to Levy's mind and convince him of the right path to take - but it soon becomes clear that Levy has simply been talking as if it has some higher purpose, flitting wildly from one position to another without any seeming logic, until he finally admits that his desire is in fact to simply inflict the suffering he feels onto them. Ultimately, when Mark is goaded into acting out his own fears and emotions, the story seems to end with the destruction of the last scrap of Angstrom Levy's dream with the corruption of Mark himself...
... and yet. Mark will never forget what happened here, and the significance of the choices which every person has to make in order to live ethically, especially those with great power - be it physical, mental, economic or political. The betrayal of his father was a similar moment, but Mark had determined that, so long as he rejected the cultural values of the Viltrumites and cared for his family and friends, he was incapable of committing the kinds of brutal acts his father had done, suppressing his fears by focusing upon acts of heroism. Now, he must wrestle with the reality of whether the capacity for acts of violence and oppression exist within all of us when our emotions are not examined, and what it takes to acknowledge and them overcome this with compassion. I think that he will find a path, and in doing so, Angstrom Levy's dream will be reborn and his sacrifice justified.
great essay, echoes my feelings on the season exactly
I felt the same both after season 1 and season 2 finale. Relief. Such a great evil as nolan was exiled... the mechanism matters... but the important thing is he was turned, he stopped, he left. As for Levi: Mark killed a dangerous lunatic and managed to get back to his home dimension. Relief. I dont feel like Mark is going to turn to the darkside. Mark isnt, nor should be, Batman. You SHOULD KILL some people. Angstrom Levi mutated and out of his mind is one such person.
and the real villain is...
wait for it...
the animation.
I'll be honest, this could have been a better take. I love this channel, and I've always seen good content here, but having read the comics I think that people have the wrong idea about what Invincible is. It isn't Avatar or Breaking Bad or any other show with immaculate planning and drawn-out character arcs like other shows may have, it is literally 60% one-off encounters and vibes throughout the very long comic saga. There isn't a "big bad" per season like other shows, because that's just not how the comics wanted things to work. This season follows the comics very closely, just like season 1, and while season 1 had a solid conclusion, season 2 is basically a few chapters of buildup in the comics. I'm not going to spoil the comics (please read them though they're great even if the artstyle for the first issues is kinda funky) because it'd ruin a lot of people's enjoyment of the show, but this season could never have had a solid conclusion like the first one did. I was very surprised that season 1 convered so little ground when I first watched it, but I think that they used it to essentially make a tightly-bound season conclusion with a high-note, something I now realise can only be done maybe thrice in the entire comic series. Invincible isn't a classic superhero comic or a manga, it's a multi-character anthology with an enthralling world that does not focus on the main plotline more than is absolutely necessary, at least in the comics. It doesn't wrap things up neatly every issue, or even every 50 issues, and that's something I really hope people can get along with going forward, because I love this show and how well it's adapted it's source material, to the point where the show has superior characterisation and events, in my opinion. I really hope that people don't get turned off of the show right now, because the next season isn't really going to be that different if the creators don't start meshing plotlines together haphazardly.
I really like this channel, but I just think that it's far too early to take such a broad look at Mark's character in the setting at this time with such intensity. It'd be like looking at Aang's character journey between episodes 1 and 2 of Avatar. It's an amazing show, so it's there, but you can see why it'd be a bit redundant. Also, for a few points here you made some statements about what this season is leading up to, and they were really just wrong, as much as I don't like to say it. I hope that you can read the comics if you have the time, and I'm still really glad you enjoyed this season like so many others have. I get that it takes so long to make each season that it's basically impossible to have extremely high hopes, but the way this is looking, it's getting the Attack on Titan treatment. That's the best way I can describe it. If anyone didn't really vibe with season 2, that's fine, and I just recommend being patient or reading the comics so you can pace your expectations and get excited for what's going to happen in the future.
The end of season 2 only feels like a loss because mark was sad and the music was too. But if it had showed mark cheering and looking happy we’d have felt the same way too.
“I wanted to kill him. I wanted to kill him but I didn’t know if I could” cheers Mark as ‘Walking on Sunshine’ plays. Everyone is happy and smiling.
I honestly hate Levi as a villian so much his whole stick is that he is incredibly smart and knows everything that happens in every universe but his grand plan is to kill the one version of Invincible that isn't a bad guy. Like wow genius plan. Like it's so dumb because he knows how rare it is for invincible to be good. Like he is supposed to be smart but all his actions are dumb and only exist to serve the plot of the writers
The reason it feels like it doesn’t have as much buildup as season one is because the story isn’t completed. This is a stepping stone that will make set up the future of the show. Although it was a season finally, it’s only a rising action to the climax of Angstroms story
I think part of the issue is that for Mark killing the villain was one of the most important moments of his life but for the audience it was Tuesday.
To me the impact of Nolan saying "I miss my wife" is just as impactful as the ending of season 1. Yea there was no spectacle, but as others in the comments have mentioned if they keep making it bigger the show will suffer for it. Can't wait for season 3
just wait for season 3......... oh boy mark
Season 2 was essentially asking the question "How would Mark deal with his father's problems?" The answer it seems that even in the 'best' version of him, he would essentially do the same thing.
- Mark upon meeting his father again was ready to let an entire planet die because of his own emotions.
- He had to come to terms with an incredibly short-lived species the same way his father must look at humans, even has the same mindset of taking care of his brother "What's one year out of my life to raise him?"
- Course during all of his fights (except for the last one) he was holding back, and him holding back was getting everyone else in trouble; yet ironically once there was no one else to worry about it was in that moment he decided to not hold back. An additional irony is that Nolan does the exact same thing, but for different reasons.
- Indirectly Mark's actions end up redeeming Nolan, because when placed in similar situations they feel similar emotions, and have similar motivations; and that similarly of course scares Mark greatly because the line between good and evil ends up being razor thin.
- Both Nolan and Mark ended up facing the same dilemma: Their morals, or their family; and they both picked their family.
My only gripe with Angstrom is that he didn't go around terrorizing the Marks who actually did turn evil.
It'd be cool if he was systematically killing them, and by going down the list, he gets around to "our" Mark.
I absolutely loved the ending, Mark managed not only to visit Batman and roast him, but then got his own Joker and "One Bad Day" all in one evening. That Omni-Man in him came out so strong that he even delivered the exact same beating that he received in the first season from his dad onto Angstrom. Absolutely powerful stuff, bring on season 3
One of the biggest things that let me know this season was less on the story and more on Mark, was the Darkwing sidekick engagement.
He problably knows that Mark saved the world from Omniman, but all he cares about, like Angstrum, is that he IS Omniman son.
When the Darkwing guy threatens to leave him in some suspended animation universe, about .2% of that viltrimite takes over when he says “I’m Omnimans son… You don’t know what I’m capable of”
That Black Air Force energy was just dark enough to make his opponent realize that he was fighting the wrong person for yhe worst reasons and he Noped that crap.
I don’t Reddit dive so I don’t know what everyone, especially the comic book nerds, as saying, however the pacing was perfect for every story, when one cliff hanger happened, another was solved. They didn’t drag everything out into some long story they made the story, solved the story, and gave us another one to anticipate, all while showing you how Mark is developing as he comes to grips with his responsibilities that come with his powers.
I think my main issue is how little presence Angstrom had throughout the rest of the season. I almost kind of forgot he was even there for a bit. I get that this fight was really more about Mark fighting himself but it would still have made the confrontation more meaningful if there had been more character development.
This is how I viewed the difference between season 1 and 2's villain arcs. Omni-Man was a Mark Grayson villain as even though he doesn't know it until the final episode, everyone working on the case from Cecil and Darkblood to Debbie is trying to confirm their suspicions with Mark finding out as he idolised his father. Angstrom Levy on the other hand was an Invincible villain, he didn't care about Mark's normal life at all just that he is Invincible and Invincible deserves to die
i think what hurt this season was the release schedule. Had it not released in two parts so far apart from one another people would've felt and remembered all story beats from the first part better. I for one forgot many things. I imagine if i had binged it all the way through, i'd have liked it better. Next season they should drop the whole season back to back.
Agree, I almost made a video about this a month ago, as it happens!
I think Levy was a disappointment for me because I didn't think he was gonna be the "boss" of the season.
He was so much in the background cooking, that I thought maybe he would show himself like he did and then have to dip.
Not like "Oh wow what tense scene, how's this gonna play.... oh he's dead...."
And no Anissa should not be the "boss" of the season, because then the show would be fucking over lol.
People who think that really just want the same fight as season one.
It throws so much stuff at you and so far I'm not convinced, the characters should be feeling the higher stakes and yet they don't they go through the emotions but quickly move on, as it is it's become an amalgamation of multiple superhero tropes that straight up refuse to give you enough time to digest them.
I loved season 2 and the eve special... started tearing up when i heard Lance Reddicks voice
Restbin peace king...
My issue with this season is without that hook the pacing does feel off. For at least the finale, I feel this is easy to change the Guardians needed more to do. Put the Mulit-Paul fight in there it would also help the Kate twist not feel as much out of place for non-comic fans, have her reveal herself during the fight (as the book also does) just without Immortal finding out beforehand, and have him be there because he does he is Kate’s brother. Overall (especially episodes 1, 2, and 8) this season feels like a checklist in the buildup to an end we have not gotten yet. I just wish there was more payoff and this plot point would do that.
Strong analysis. Seeing this season through the lens of Mark’s potential for darkness gives it a narrative unity that I thought was otherwise lacking.
I think the main reason it didn’t click for so many people right away is because the release schedule made a lot of people forget about the inner battle Mari had in those early episodes.
With the cliffhanger of Omni-Man being captured, and Mark being threatened by the Viltrum empire, I think many people focused on that part of the story during the months off, and not on Mark’s inner demons. If it were released regularly, the connecting thread would probably have been much clearer.
"the real villain was their deep seeded violence" is a character archetype we've seen 3980911920 fimes. It's a trope at this point. Its boring, its played out and it's just trite. Invincible was cool because it did something we've seen a tonne (evil superman) but grounded it, made you think about the humanity of the trope. This isn't that. It's just doing it straight.
Levy was so obviously setting up the "will mark finally kill?" That just having a well executed fight would have been the subversive move. Hell, even just ignoring Levy and having the final episode be a character episode would have been subversive. I liked the aftermath, I think it was interesting to see how it affected mark (as i mentioned earlier it's about exploring the humanity not always exolored in the trope) but it wouldn't have been affected if the entire Levy sequence had been cut. Genuinely, 3 panels of Levy threatening Debbie, mark struggling against the portals and mark killing levy, and it would've had no difference in it's impact. So the fact so much time was spent on it when you have 20 far more satisfying emotional beats and plot threads to focus on... Just unsatisfying.
I don't get why it's generally acceptable to say I show is bad because it was slow, or didn't have *enough* action.
Season 2 had a lot of action, too. The fight scenes were awesome, and the story was *very* well done. (Voice acting, too).
The villain was manic, and out-of-no-where (And many other foil/symbolisms to Marc in this season). He threatens his family, not him. And in his humanity, his empathetic drive to protect, he finally kills a man with his own hands. Marc, in his most human moments, is the most alien. Both his family (his humanity) and his strength (his viltrumite) are weaknesses to him now. Can he protect his family? *should he* protect his family? He is constantly reminded how weak he is, in his failing relationships, and at the hands of one (of many) supervillains. When he says he needs to become stronger, it isn't *just* so he can protect Earth from Viltrum, it's so he won't ever lose control again.
I related BIG TIME to Marc this season. As a senior in Highschool I'm wracked with dichotomies and fear for what's to come. Stepping out into something bigger than yourself, leaving behind relationships- really, your life as you knew it- for something you aren't sure about. I've never "He's liwally me'd" a character before, but Marc might be the first.
A smaller side plot I would have liked to see develop more is Immortal and Duplikate’s relationship. We only got a short reason from Duplikate of why she was with Immortal, but never saw that connection happen.
It felt odd that Immortal was so racked by her death as we never saw their relationship grow. I felt like one of Amber and Mark’s annoying relationship hiccups could have been replaced with this.
maybe the real villains are the frien- Ok I'll shut up
The only thing i thought was weird about the end was the time travel part, like i guess there wasnt really any better way of doing it but it felt out of nowhere
What I also noticed is that the series refuses to tell how far these alternative marks are in terms of time. Could be in the past but ALSO the future. I think Mark's fate is TO become like his father. I think he'll be the true villain towards the end or atleast an anti-hero. There will always be a reason why Mark becomes voilent.
I thought you were stronger; both talking to himself and his opponent. It's great
The real villain was the friends we made along the way
This season did much more for me than the first season. I think that characterization was vastly improved, while I liked omniman more in season 1, and I thought he was better written, this season uses him to pose interesting questions about forgiveness. I didn't like robot season one, he was a huge creep, but this season he got to be a boy and make reasonable mistakes and learn. Rexsplode just became a more enjoyable individual. Amber and Mark had a more interesting relationship that I honestly cared about more. We got a lot of Debby time that I loved. By putting Mark in situations we can't survive his way through like the fight with Levy, the relationship with Amber, meeting his Dad again, and of course meeting his brother- we get to explore Mark's character further, and he becomes less of a reinforced cardboard cutout and more of a real character.
Also u should play hytale and do a video about it when that comes out in a million years
i keep forgetting glenn's actor from the walking dead voices mark. he's doing great
The irony of Levy’s plan is that he’s lashing out at potentially the one dimension where Mark didn’t go villain. Which, in turn, has forced Mark to realize he’s capable of being more Viltrumite if pushed too far.
Oh and every comic reader probably had their legs crossed during the Anissa scenes. For… obvious reasons.
I can't believe people missed the central theme of season 2. Imo this season delivered everything perfectly and was so much better than season 1.
I haven't really read the comics (I don't want to spoil the show for me,which I don't usually do but Invincible seem better not really knowing what will happen) so I wonder how far they will take the Mark becoming like his dad thing because at the end of the day he isn't him. Also, I can understand in a way why people found season 2 underwhelming, but I agree it wasn't fully underwhelming, it was and wasn't for me. I loved Donald comforting Rick and them talking about their shared trauma, but Anissa did feel underwhelming, I guess like Levi they can bring her back, but there’s one problem with that. Like everyone has been talking about, in comics Anissa rapes Mark, and now it’s debated if the plot line should be in the show, here are some arguments and justifications for the plot line and my thoughts on it:
Point 1- The rape can feel like it just there for shock value: I understand why people would say this, unfortunately, rape had been put in media for this reason, though there is a counterpoint to this
Point 2- It can be a good way to represent Male sexual assault victims/survivors- It can be if done right IDK how well it was handled in the comics, but the show could do it though another point I’ve heard is
Point 3- it would be unnecessary to the show, as Mark already going through a struggling arc: I mean he is already gone through a lot in the show, so people saying this have a point out there's the second point to consider
The final point is that the rape plot line is causing drama and some people are being gross about it, so the show would be better off not including it. I think even if there is drama, it can be included again respectfully.
If any sexaul assault victims/survivors have any thoughts they want to say about this,I’ll hear them.
This show is genuinely some of the best television I’ve seen in my life. It feels like the final form of superhero storytelling. Every trope and writing technique honed until razor sharp. So yeah I guess you could say I liked season 2. I didn’t think anything could make me feel worse than the train scene but Angstrom’s death managed to do that *comfortably*.
If that's peak superhero story telling, I'm sad how low bar is.
@@mikhaelgribkov4117 can’t tell if you’re talking shit about the show, the superhero genre as a whole or both
@@matthewseggelink1192 show will not get respect in both cases, it's writing is pathetic and dumb down of originally unique superhero parody. I may have issues with comic but show is just straight up assassination of everything comic was and turned into something itself despised in superheroes. Thank God that X-men 97 acutally deliver on being good and have actual example of good character writing and cinematography.
I always knew there was no way Angstrom was going to be a serious threat to mark.
They pretty well showed that it takes a lot to kill a viltrimite and Angstrom wasn't going to be capable of doing that.
This season felt more like mark coming to terms with the fact that he can't just take the passive route and hold back. The viltrimites are willing to kill and mark needs to be willing to kill them.
Angstrom was there for one reason and one reason only. He was Mark's first kill
Considering how Invincible War and Conquest will happen in Season 3, the season focused on more of a chilled season, so it works I think
Did it work for me? Yes, but I binged the whole comic series back when season 1 was airing, so I see the bigger picture already.
i also think the biggest reason that it felt underwhelming was just how they were released, 8 episodes is already short enough, but the fact it was 2, 4 episode bursts that were once a week made it feel like 2 4 episode season and the second 4 were just not as good, i might rewatch season 2 in one sitting but the first time i watched it has been ruined by how amazon chose to release it
spoilers
season 2 was the actual build up for angstrom levy! in the comics he did not get killed here so in the long term it will feel more fleshed out
Looking ahead to overarching themes in the story of how society deals with its villians - season 2 leans really nicely into it. Setting it up correctly for later seasons to land their own philosophical punches
Main antagonist of this season is mark himself
Idk about anyone else but I was extremely satisfied with the fight. There was no way to peacefully resolve the Levi fight. His motivations were not logical because he was projecting the terrible things other Mark's did to other versions of himself onto the one Mark who didn't do anything to him (lets be real the accident was entirely his fault. He decided to interrupt the machine despite the warning from the mauler twins and he easily could have built the machine in a dead world with no risk of interference, instead hiring breaking known violent criminals out of prison, making intervention from a hero extremely likely). Mark was incredibly patient too. He had multiple opportunities to speed blitz and kill Levi bjt he held back and repeatedly tried to reason with him as he hurt and endangered his family. He also couldn't be taken down nonlethally because his abilities make him practically impossible to contain. He can't be reasoned with and can't be imprisoned. Until he was put in the ground he would cobtinue to be a threat to Mark and more importantly his family. I know Mark blames himself but he has time and time again risked his own life for his principles about not killing, but a villian gave him the choice of either killing or letting g his family die and Mark made the choice anyone would. In my eyes I saw the amount of hesitation and regret as further proof that Mark is extremely far from his other selves, but I think he needs to be more like them or he won't be able to protect earth from the viltrumite invasion. Nolan told him on Thracan that he needs to be willing to kill because other viltrumites won't hesitate.
The timeline for the series is such a breath of fresh air, at first I was incredibly concerned with Angstrom Levy's introduction, especially in the wake of the "Multiverse fatigue" set up by the MCU, this whole concept of there being infinite dimensions and infinite possibilities, and thus nothing really matters. You can always just replace a character with another version of themselves from a universe in which everyone is a copy of them or something.
The show writers seemingly knew from the start that this was something that had to be addressed, and so they made sure to give the concept limitations, make it clear that this all begins and ends with Levy (within the current dimension and timeline anyways) and focus on the growth of OUR Mark. Then events from the comics got shuffled around to avoid pitfalls such as the reliance on timeskips to artificially bring an arc to it's conclusion immediately.
I'm so glad that they've decided to improve the base material in such a way, I don't think following the comic's timeline would've worked at all.
87% audience score woulda been 95+ if not for that hiatus in between ffs
didnt affect me though i started the show on 11th march lol
Mark needs to accept his darkness and embrace it instead of fight against it and ultimately lose against it. By accepting that it is always a part of you you can be the one in control of it instead of it being in control of you. The darkness will always and forever be there, once you accept that you can learn that you can use it to help yourself out and keep it in check. I have done this, would you rather your darkness be your demons that fight against you or your soldiers that fight along side you?
With all this talk about the "real throughline" of the season, I'm surprised there was no mention of the title screen. Season 1's progressively got bloodier to foreshadow Mark getting beaten to a pulp. Season 2's shows the title screen cracking and breaking to foreshadow Mark cracking under the pressure and breaking his rule of "No killing".
I would agree except for the large number of dead zones where they relay their feelings poorly.
I didn't really think there wass an overarking Villain on purpose, The "Villain" of the season was doubth and depression🤔
The problem with Mark's arch in this season is that they portray it as his Human half versus his Viltrumite half, when the "dark parts" of him are still 100% human. Any reasonable human could have been driven to kill Levi in a similar situation. Take away the super powers and you've basically just got a hostage standoff with guns, and if Mark had just shot him then no one would be having this conversation. And the other supers kill people all the time without anyone calling them a monster, so the show seems to reserve this internal conflict to Mark alone which really undermines its impact. So when Cecil tries to pull on Mark's guilt it just seems like manipulation rather than an actual moral conundrum. Hell, even Nolan's internal conflict seems more believable.
Is it bad that I felt nothing but satisfaction when Levy was killed
This felt like a midseason finale.
I binged the comics during the mid season break and I keep having to stop myself from screaming at speculation where this goes lmfao. If you weren't feeling this season, stick with it, trust me.
Levy is not the big bad, just another way to introduce struggle for the Main Character. I like that they gave him the multiple memory confusion. The comic just lets him be wrong without justifying his actions.
Spoiler:
Levy will be back
Comic fans when a show takes a more emotional focus and doesn’t just make big huge fights every finale ☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️
I was disappointed at first with the finale because I read the comic a decade ago so I had expectations of a different order of events for the show to fit a more action oriented climax. They kept the same emotional finale which i agree is more impactful since it better followed the theme of the season but I cant lie I was a bit deflated. It's like across the spiderverse, once I knew what i was getting it was more enjoyable on a second watch. Anyways spot on analysis