The .32ACP Dreyse Light Carbine
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Manufactured by Rheinmetall and designed by Louis Stange, this light .32ACP (7.65mm Browning) carbine is a bit of a mysterious item. Very little written information exists about it, but we know it was sold on the commercial market as it appears in several firearms sale catalogs and it is, frankly, and wonderfully handy little small game rifle. It is a simple blowback action with a 6-round detachable magazine, sharing a number of elements with the Dreyse 1907 pistol from the same company (Johann von Dreyse died in 1867, but the brand name was owned by the Rheinmetall company). One feature of the rifle that is likely to be overlooked given today's cultural insistence on eye and ear protection is that the Dreyse carbine's small .32 caliber cartridge and long barrel made for a relatively very quiet report when firing. Not quiet enough to be considered hearing safe today, but much less unpleasant than many other firearms using higher pressure cartridges.
Thanks to H. in Sweden for letting me shoot this handy little carbine!
If you enjoy Forgotten Weapons, check out its sister channel, InRangeTV! / inrangetvshow
The driving force behind the gun design was that the inventors brother was an out of work thumb surgeon.
🤣😆😂
A modern one of those with Skorpion magazines would be a blast.
Agree. But the tacticool morons would say it was underpowered and useless except for plinking. They would then go and plink with their 3k ar.
If I ever get into firearms manufacturing, that's one of the things I'd want to make. Pistol caliber carbines in less common pistol cartridges.
Well, there's the well known Garand thumb, the infamous Ljungman thumb, now we have to coin the term Dreyse thumb.
If they were in production today I'd buy one in a heartbeat
MrLM002 , me too!
Today the 22 lr or 9mm carbines fit the same place for use.
.32 ACP is relatively cheap. Cheaper than .40 and .45
@@ryanehlis426 im sorry but but 9mm does not fit
I wouldn't.
Seating the magazine is dumb on this, the little indicator is dumb, 6 round capacity sounds annoying and it also malfunctioned.
And it's not all that interesting of a gun if it was modern and in production. But it being completely lost from any records is kinda interesting
This is the first time I heard our Lord and Savior Gun Jesus swear and it was for good reason.
First time I heard Ian say "damn" I had to rewind the video to make sure I heard him correctly. It caught me off guard and surprised the hell out of me despite me cursing like a drunken angry sailor 24/7 lol
Can’t say I blame him though!
He swears more often at inrangetv. But I'm starting to notice he seems to be swearing more in general lol.
WW1Trenchgun/Shotgun video. Shocking use of language. F-bomb warning.
He said "Oh shit" during the Lebel video.
That's the cutest little double-stack magazine I've ever seen.
I did not realize Gun Jesus could take his own name in vain with two adjectives.
Well you did it again. You featured a firearm that I was convinced, until seeing this video, was a toy or at best a "beginners" rifle (think .22 LR Marlins, Remingtons, et., etc.). I once had the occasion to view, but not handle much less fire, an example that is in a closely held family firearms collection. The example I saw was in much the same condition as the one in this video and found it's way to the U.S. via a flag grade officer/family member who "found it" in Germany near the end of WWII and brought it home with him. As usual you have added to my firearms education with this video. Keep 'em comin'!
FD Mackey in practical use it's really not any different from any 22 "beginners rifle".
Dear Gun Jesus, there is a new tv series out in Germany, it‘s called „Babylon Berlin“ and it‘s set in the late 1920‘s Berlin. The main actor uses a pistol which i really did not know and i was unable to identify it properly with it being visible only for short moments. That bothered me like hell! Now, thanks to you, i know that it‘s a Dreyse 1907! Thank you very much!
CaptainLumpyDog I don‘t know where you live but i think Netflix or HBO already bought the rights for the show for the US market. It pretty good, for a german show that is. ;)
It's probably just How It's Made in German.
There is a internet page called IMFDB (internet movie firearms database) on which you can see which guns were used in a movie. As of now., i have not a found a single movie or tv show that wasn't on there
I can back up TheCrazypsicho IMFDB is a good resource. Especially for guns that have been modded or adapted for sci-fi and the like.
There's a bunch of guns that look like the 1907 pistol.
They made the magazine double-feed so people with sore thumbs could still load it. Either that or they made the magazine first and then designed the cocking indicator because they lived by the doctrine of "everyone must feel some pain from our carbine, even the owners!"
Oh man this tiny mag is so cute
that is the equivalent of gun jesus stepping on lego
Twice.
It really does look like somebody just stuck a pistol slide on that stock
You are right
Crossman air pistol slide really.
The caliber 7.62x25mm would be formidable for self-loading carbines, but nobody has made them!
Berserkr01 to put it simply. That is the pistol caliber they wish was never imported to the USA. Shreds body armor. I wish we were able to own a modern pistol in that particular caliber. Oddly enough the Canadians can..
+Berserkr01 Closest you can get is a PPS-43C, there are companies that make 16 inch barrel conversions for them, which if you buy a parts kit with a stock, you can have a folding stock with a 16 inch barrel on it. Same company makes 9mm Largo barrels for them too, or at least they did at a time. There's also a company out there called Bazooka Brothers who makes an 7.62 Tokarev conversion for AR rifles that takes PPS-43 magazines too.
So, there's a few options out there. But honestly... if you want that performance, just get a .357 Sig Carbine from somebody like JRC or one of those Glock upper kits from MechTech. I've got one in 10mm that's been proving quite solid. I say go with .357 Sig as its performance is nearly identical but using heavier bullets on average. Otherwise, save up and hunt down a Mauser C96 Carbine model.
+712criminal It shreds Level 2A soft armor or weaker, 3A soft armor stops a vast majority of 7.62 Tokarev rounds. There are some loaded hot that were intended for use with sub guns as well as some steel cored rounds which are all but impossible to find now that would have done that after a few shots in the same area. Sadly now you got those Hyrbid armors that will stop it cold when fired out of a handgun. However, the 10 inch barrel on a PPS-43 gives it the extra velocity it needs to get through some soft armors, but wont get through hard plate. So I dont think there's much regret for importing it at all.
I love the round and still shoot my Tokarev often, but you're better off getting a modern alternative like .357 Sig or a 9x25 Dillon if you want to go with a bigger gun. The 7.62 Tok out of a 4.5 inch barrel on average with hot loads meant for a handgun is often pushing an 86gr bullet around 1450 fps or so. A 9x25 Dillon with a 90gr bullet from the same barrel length is pushing around 1700 fps, a 115gr .357 Sig from the same barrel length with some Remington green and white box factory loads is capable of 1,400 to 1,560 fps or so. I imagine IF you found a 90gr .357 Sig it could push into the 1,600 range roughly.
Berserkr01 yes they did both mauser and luger made pistol carbines in 7.62x23 ,
7.65x19 and 9x19 from 1896 till mid 1940s! And the tokarev is literally a 7.62x23 mauser cartridge dispite what the so called experts say! The Soviets adopted it because they purchased a couple hundred thousand *bolo* short barreled broomhandle mausers
In the 1920s they continued to use them well into the 1950s and passed them along to the Chinese who had a very great love of the broomhandle!
There are lots of semi-auto versions of PPS and PPSh, if that is close enough to a carbine for you ;)
Oh, I want someone to make a repro of this!!!!!!
technical design is very sturdy. Actually a nice carbine!
This looks really simple and really genius to me.
Imagine that technique with a larger ammo (and some design fixes that crushes your thumb).
Would be a really nice Carbine right?
At least for that time....
The mechanism wouldnt be able to take it.
Why not? I am not that much into refiles.
The system this uses is called blowback. Once you fire the weapon it relies on the weight of the bolt to seal the rear end of the barrel until the bullet has left the front end. With heavier calibers you would need way too much weight to create that seal which would make the gun uncomfortably bulky and heavy.
If you want heavier calibers you need a locking mechanism for the bolt to create a safe seal. If you don't lock the rear of the barrel you can end up with all the pressure from firing coming out the back of the gun instead of the front of the barrel. Think of it as popping a champagne bottle where the bottle comes flying back into your stomach and you end up with the cork in your hand.
Okay sounds legit :)
If you want an example of what HP Browning is talking about, look at the Hi Point pistols. They offer larger calibers, and are also blowback. The weight of the slide can double as a pretty handy weapon by itself with all of the mass it needs.
Using a delayed blowback mechanism (whereby the gas pressure is forced to do a lot more work to get the bolt moving initially) would allow it to handle significantly more pressure. putting the MP5's rollers on it wouldn't be that hard.
Boy, Rheinmetall is sure getting a lot of airtime for "forgotten weapons" these days. All good stuff, considering I hadn't heard of them prior.
First thought I had when I saw it was "That's an elegant firearm". I really like the schnabel forend on it, and the stock shape is just "right". Ian clipping his thumb (twice) is just the icing on the cake.
I want one of these really bad now the way this thing is designed is awesome I would definitely make a 20 round magazine for it though
More fire arms like this, 32 is under apriciated I think. Doesnt take much to do the job lol
That's a cool little rifle. Really quiet.
just making a point. If given a larger magazine wouldn't this be good to storm a trench with? Yes the .32 ACP wasnt as good as 9 or .45 but it was enough and in a large quantity like what a semi auto rifle could give you for example this one? I know reliability may be a bit off.
Kristobro98 it makes sense. But semi auto weapons never gained anything close to common usage in the trenches in WWI.
Kristobro98. There were a lot of Ruby Pistols (also in .32ACP) available to the allies, they may have been better for clearing out trenches as it's a much smaller weight and bulk to carry in addition to your rifle which you'd need when fighting to get close to a trench.
And it was far more accepted to use grenades to do most of the work in clearing out trenches and dugouts. But pistols were more useful in the general 'mopping up' as you look through every nook and cranny.
Ruby pistol with 9+1 shots of .32ACP was quite sufficient.
The Pederson Devise made for the 03 Springfield fired a round very similar to .32 ACP.
There were better options, and given this guns low caliber and lack of extended magazines, not to mention exposed "firing pin" and general lack of combat readiness, i'd rather have a 1911 or c96.
Yeah, I was thinking that exact thing. Why not just put a stock on a long-barreled Mauser instead? (You know, like many people actually did.) It'd be far more practical for combat than trying to force a varmint rifle into military use.
Seems kinda ahead of it's time considering all the assbackwards gun designs from the era. Probably could've made for a decent military rifle if they would've beefed it up to a larger caliber.
Id like one in 357 sig
He said imperial German, no I think it would have been right at home with the other carbines of WW1
At least something for pilots
The limit is bolt mass, not spring technology. Even a simple .22LR exerts some thousand pounds of bolt thrust, and with forces that high, any retention force a reasonable spring could provide is a drop in the bucket. With a 5.56 you're looking at 3-7 pounds (just in the bolt alone!) for a straight blowback action.
Laired Cummins is spot on
I kind of dislike the silent intro's. I end up checking my headphones and volume thinking something is wrong with my system.
I think I see why this rifle wasn’t so successful. 👍🏻
Eric Keeble Thumbs up now has a whole new meaning on this channel.
I always assumed that hearing protection has been a constant thing through modern firearms history. When exactly did hearing protection become the standard practice?
Bradley Chapman plenty of people still don't use hearing protection. Just look at the videos of people shooting draco's without hearing protection or look at the Syrian War. I've been informed a number of times by TH-cam idiots that only pussies use hearing protection and that after being exposed to loud noises they can hear better. LOL
Bradley Chapman for guns in the US, the 80s really.
We wore plugs and earmuffs on the flight deck of US Navy Aircraft carriers way back in the 60's. But I recall being pistol and shotgun qualified for a base security posting with no ear pro at all in the mid 80's. I think folks were aware of the hearing loss issue, but had no way to provide situational awareness with the available technology. Hearing loss, tinitus and even in extreme cases vertigo are a real issue among us veterans.
My father was in Special Forces back in the early 70s and he just told me that they had ear plugs but they were optional. And I've got a friend that was in artillery in Vietnam and he said you would get written up if you didn't have your ear protection on
For me yes i use ear protection but i do like hearing the gun time to time so i take them off sometimes and forget to put my muffs back on. As for eyewear never had a need in my life been more of a hindsesns especially since i like hugging the stock to my face, only ever used them at ranges because its enforced. And only reason i bought muffs because i started shooting more often and in more quantity. I don't wear ear muffs and eye protection while hunting lol it will just look and feel goofy. Guess just boils down to what your used too.
Been going to gun shows most of my life and I've seen one of these just once; at the "Egg" in Albany, NY about 15-20 years ago.
Ian's editing didn't do him any favors in helping him not look stupid having warned us about it then immediately falling for it again XD
This gun really rather sounds and seems like something you use to keep smaller animals off of your property.
Brutus Pontificus don't forget kids
6x.32ACP in 4 seconds? Could you take that? "Tis but a scratch!"
Brutus Pontificus, armadillos might need a second round
.32 ACP, especially out of a rifle length barrel, is an adequately effective defense weapon.
Excellent presentation Ian, as usual.
Beautifully engineered "watchsmith's" carbine.
Hand placement is just part of the drill (e.g., Vickers MG or Garand).
good guy gun jesus, gives us safety tips on rifles we will never see
This would be a good action to reproduce and make a modern version in other pistol calibers. It could make some fun plinking rifles.
thank you. i enjoy your videos, and your mellow style of delivery.
Those sling swivels are the exact same as the swivels on my pre-1900 Dreyse side by side hammer shotgun.
I bet with some minor modifications (hand guard, thumb protector thing, bigger mag) this thing would've probably been pretty handy in a trench raid.
Those are so neat, I want one!! Could've been used with or without a suppressor as a special forces operation/ commando rifle for covert type ops in ww1
Would make sense as an aviator's survival gun. A sidearm in 32acp and a little rifle in the same caliber to hunt some small brushwood/desert game. Would probably add better sights and interchangeable magazines w the pistol.
Let's see...it hinges open at the front, the top half of the receiver contains the bolt, the bottom half contains the fire-control group and the magazine. Does any of this feel a bit...familiar?
I think saw that listed as rook and rabbit rifle in a 1907 gun catalog, it wasn't cheap for the average worker on a bike. It was suited for higher end landowners and wealthy gentry.
I like it. Other than the thumb thing, it looks like it would be a lot of fun.
Hm if these were made in Sömmerda there could be a chance the guys in the Weapons Museum in Suhl know a bit about it. Just a wild guess but maybe worth checking out.
Cool blouse !!!
Very pleasant with only occasional eye-watering pain! Sounds like a winner.
This looks pretty sweet, aside from the way it bites your thumb.
Been waiting on this to be published
Poor Ian’s thumb. Hope it heals quickly. I’m always worried when he fires old fire arms.
"so how did you find the video?" I just pressed the Thumbnail.... See what I did there...
Me: Hey, Dreyse, could you make me handy plinker carbine that will rip my thumbnail off if I hold it wrong?
Dreyse: I got you fam.
I guess your thumb found out the hard way why these guns didn't sell very well. ;-)
Wonder why the original maker didn't cut a bit off the indicator ?
Hurting the thumb must've been a common complaint
Wow...quiet is not the word! I thought my speakers were not working.
Ah gun Jesus never disappoints, weird and interesting guns for all!
3D print a 100 round drum magazine and convert it to full auto and you have yourself a super fun gun
I do love Dreyse designs
wow, this gun is beautiful!
So, Ian, how did you find out you shouldn't do that? :D
I really like this gun, very cool alternative to the ruger and marlin .22's we're swamped with today. I think a lot of people would buy this just because it's different.
Give this higher cap mags and this would be a delightful plinking gun.
.32 needs a renaissance.
That is a nice little plinker rifle.
I saw a picture of someone shooting one of these like... years and years ago and I've been tryna find out what it was since. THANK YOU SO MUCH... ha :D also sorry about your thumb. Will hold a small memorial service in it's honour
Heard of some knock-off m16 lookalike that shot .32acp. Now my purpose is life is to reinvent the wheel using KelTec magazines.
That’s fascinating! The Swiss guards used Dreyse 1907 pistols. This carbine would have been a great companion for those guys. This seems like it would have made a great great cop gun. Why wasn’t it popular ?
And why wasn’t weren’t there more pistol caliber semi auto carbines based on pistol actions like this? For instance the Mauser 06/08 pistol in 9x23. A carbine based on that would have been badass!
In usage it seems like it would be very similar to what the British call a "rook" (bird) rifle. Like u mentioned, a garden rifle. Small caliber, fairly quiet, sonewhat limited range. I think the British ones were mostly single shot or bolt action, and mostly late black powder era. It would certainly have its uses for small game, pest control, and even self defense in a pinch. Don't laugh, the .32 ACP was well thought of for that purpose in handguns for decades. In theory the rifle will achieve a bit more velocity, and thus more energy. Although, it is possible that there will be little gain because of the extra friction of the longer barrel acting to slow the bullet back down. A chrono test would be interesting. I wouldn't be surprised if someone somewhere once made a 20 round "assault" magazine for it. It would be pretty practical for various things in a stronger cartridge such as 9mm (a 38 Super intrigues me). I wonder if this influenced the Marlin Camp Carbine, 80 years later. They are fun and practical guns also. Great video as always. Thank you
The most surprising thing about this is fact that it's in Sweden. I just didn't expect that.
cool little gun!
I suspect, if this was designed as a Police Carbine, it would have had a much larger magazine. Even that early there were better options either in stopping power or capacity (Luger P07 or Mauser C96 based carbines for example.) Looks like a small game/vermin control/range toy to me.
Rheinmetall should have made a bigger caliber version when they could.
a Dreyse that doesn't use a needle? my gawd man!
My new favorite hunting rifle...how many favorites can one guy have?
*Ian; "I Shot myself in The Thumb...Again!!!"
What a fantastic, and very neat gun.
Surely the striker /thumb interface problem could have been solved by putting a little plate onto the back of the striker.
This is a remarkably clean and simple rifle. For minor caliber cartridges, this would still viable today, were it still in production.
Of course, you'd need to shroud the striker tailpiece somehow.
its a shame those things are rare, that looks like a interesting firearm to modify
I love the simplicity of these weapons .
Gorgeous minimalist design. Like you say fantastic brush gun.
It doesn't have that german "over-engineered" look. Seems perfectly practical.
I give this video a thumb up.
Heh.
Oh cool a german bb gun.
I’d be interested to see what kind of velocity you can get out of this.
Damn, that's about as big as a BB gun.
My god , i thought i'd never hear ian swear on video. As always awsome video , keep it up gun jesus
That would be a great gun for plinking.
I wonder if it would still function if you took a hacksaw to that cocking indicator/thumb basher.
KarlBunker id think it would
Thanks again sir...........
There's a commercial for a kindergarten in my "Up Next" related video queue for this, wonder how that's related...
that explains it sorta. Thought you'd think it'd pick up on the whole gun thing
+Forgotten Weapons there is a museum in the city of Sömmerda situated in the former residential house of Nicolaus von Dreyse and it is dedicated to his life, work and inventions. www.dreysehaus.de/museum/
Thanks Ian. I own a 1907 Dryse pistol but had no idea about this carbine. facinating.
So .32 ACP rifles are actually a thing??? Guess Fallout 3 wasn't as wrong on that one as I thought.
toss it in the BF1 heap, standard issue for the African storm trooper regiments
That Rheinmetall stamp alone is reason enough to want one. A rabbit gun me thinks.Would be interesting to see what .32 does ballistically out of that barrel length.
This little plinker is what we called a varmint gun or a truck rifle, perhaps a tiny ranch rifle, again, to dispatch rodents and snakes. Another beauty is the Remington 1100 in .410. Would that be considered a forgotten weapon? I have only seen one of them In 30 years of hunting and shooting. Thanks
I had the overwhelming urge to go "aww" when he pulled out the mag...
I have always been fascinated by this firearm. It's extremely ahead of it's time I'm honestly.
That might actually be an excellent start-point for a .22 Rimfire semi-auto, particularly in WMR. Much easier to clean than most modern designs for a start.
Could probably do with a shroud on that cocking indicator though... and you'd probably have to mount any scope-rail forward of the breach like a scout rifle.
I hope i can own that carbine
Being a shooter as far back as the 70's, I can remember we always had hearing protection even with .22's. In the early 80's I had these ear plugs with some type of magic insert which enabled hearing voice very well while simultaneously lowering the decibel levels on the fire.. I haven't been able to find them since, but I haven't tried that hard.. Now I am curious.
I have one of these. The little box magazine is the cutest thing ever. Mine has the DREYSE and Sommerda text on it. Little sweet handling carbine!
Really needs a thumb safety stop. What were they thinking?
This thing reminds me of the auto loading 8