600 Volt Tube Op Amp! Lets Power It Up.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ก.ค. 2024
- Lets take a close look at one of the first op-amps. This is a tube type op-amp, and we're going to power it up in this video.... It only requires 600 Volts. To learn more about electronics in a very different and effective way, check out my Patreon page. Click this link: / mrcarlsonslab
- วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
At RCA labs I was the guy who tested the 12AX7 tube and matched them up using a Tektronix scope curve tracer. I built a chassis to pre heat 100 tubes at a time fir the 100 hour burn in time . All the data was recorded by hand and cataloged in bank of file cabinets.
It might appear you the reader as a dull and monotone nous job, but I loved every minute of everyday. The money was very good and I got to work with real gentlemen like Mr. Carlson. Staying late at night working overtime was a joy . I learned so much. Then it all ended with my induction into the United States Army. Fortunately fir me the Army realized my skills and trained me to repair radio equipment. Two years later when I returned hime , my old job was available to me, but now the technology had changed so much and OP amps were now solid state bricks. Testing and setup the was done by machine. I used my Army experience and went back to RCA training as a Radio / TV technician. Color TV service was a good job in the mid sixties, however I did not like doing in home repairs. By 1970 I earned my way into the shop and later on into the research lab. Over my 40 year experience i had to learn so much as technology never stood still. Here I am at 80 watching Mr. Carlson’s refresher course videos of my life. I am proud and very hard to have chosen electronics as my lives work and hobby. For all of you out there, stick too it and stay with it. Electronics is hard but interesting work that nerds do. Wear that title proudly.
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I used an analog computer in the late 60's. It did differential equations in real time, where a digital computer would take all night to run. You could simulate a car suspension, for instance. It used op amps like these.
Your lab looks like mine 30 years ago.
Thanks for sharing your story James!
thats awesome wow
On behalf of the people of youtube, we appreciate the honesty, and also the time involved in setting the camera up 600 freakin' times........
Fantastic, I remember these from the late 50s and analog computers (I'm 81). I always thought they were impractical until the 741 showed up in the mid 60s.
Probably another technology that came from Roswell (e.g. IC chip, laser light, optical fibers, night vision), from 1947 to 1958, 11 years after, the year "Jack Kilby, a TI engineer, invented the integrated circuit." :)
I wonder if we know about something (more) that is going to be invented 10 years in advance!?
Today’s my birthday I told everybody to hold on one more hour to put off dinner and watching a video on vacuum tube opamps. I Learned a little more today👍
Mr Carlson is now officially the guy I would most like to meet ever!
Never would have thought I could stay interested in 44 straight minutes about a tube op-amp. Well done! Impressed by your attitude to safety also; so important when disseminating knowledge. Double thumbs up!
Several decades ago I bought one of those NOS. I had a boss who had a Phd in electronics who got his degree in the 50's tube era. We mounted a socket on a fancy wooden base and gave it to him for his birthday. He was ecstatic to get it and often chided us gently about our solid state devices.
Thanks for sharing your story George!
Just an amazing video describing an ancient artifact. Suddenly i want to implement one and test all its possible configurations. Thanks again for the quality content here and on Patreon.
Nice to see this very clear video, and nice to see tube op amps... I wrote my master's thesis building a D/A and A/D subsystem between an analog computer (using these) and a PDP-11/45. I've been doing analog and digital hardware design, plus software design, ever since.
The battery demonstration really helped me understand what was going on with the +/- 300V and 600V total, i initially didn't get it, thanks for these really great videos
Glad you enjoyed!
Digikey only discovered nanofarads a couple of years ago...
Hi Mike. Thanks for stopping by!
Great Video. I used tube opamps during my Melbourne university electronic degree back in 1960's. Our analog computer had 100 channels which allowed us to model quite complex systems. The computer (MUDPAC) remained in service until 1970 when digital computers were cheaper. Analog was still used for real time emulation in rocketry because analog computers could integrate/differentiate much faster than digital computers. They were also much better for non-linear systems because of their high compliance (+/-100V). Sadly by 1980 all benefits had disappeared and IC OpAmps and digital computers completely replaced tube opamps.
Thanks for taking the time to write Peter!
Peter Kay I
Thanks for sharing your story/fond memory, Peter. I'd loved to have viewed that set-up!
Cheers
Now that things like VR are getting popular, the speed of analog computers are becoming desirable again for the quick and repetitive linear maths required for things like body tracking that are cumbersome and resource consuming for processors. Why do the same functions in calculus over and over in a processor when some fixed, dedicated hardware like op amps can do it faster externally?
"Leave the scary stuff to me." Yes, sir, I will! High voltage, open terminals... I'll stay well clear! :) Very interesting to watch, though! Thanks, Mr. Carlson!
OMG this op amp is amazing :o, thanks Paul for the best electronics classes I've ever had, success professor!
The most scary capacitors that I worked with were 100 μF at 8.6 kV, used to power an x-ray machine. One of the safety compliance tests was to demonstrate the mechanism to directly short the cap if the cabinet was opened improperly. The first test vaporized the hinge on the shorting bar. It sounded like about six double-barrel 12 gauge shotguns being fired at once. Needless to say, a much larger hinge was designed and tested.
Those caps are used in "coin shrinking" demo's as well.
I thought Xray tubes run on 70kV and up?
NiHaoMike The capacitors were used to power a Marx surge pulse generator, which powered a field emission x-ray tube at 350 kV. The pulses were delivered at 1 kHz, and the number of pulses was determined by the exposure. The result was a low-dose high resolution chest x-ray system. The technology was developed by Field Emission Corp., and went to market in 1973. Hewlett-Packard bought the company in 1974.
Around 1977, Floating Point Systems started selling array processors, to GE and J&J, making CT possible.
My father has dealt with GE medical xray his entire career. I remember seeing the huge volt packs when I was young.
E=½CV². C=0.0001 F; assume V=8000 volts, so E=6400 J (joules) = 1.53 gram of TNT equivalent.
Awesome video! Thanks for taking the time to show us this, now that is able to multiply it would be interesting to see some of its other functions.
I've been watching a couple years now and I really want to thank Mr. Carlson because you keep giving me the motivation to work on my own projects :)
Glad to be that motivation!
Paul, without you and your Channel, I'd have no chance to see such beautiful devices like this extraterrestrial looking op Amp ;) You are the only person I know, who can play the famous "Crocodile Dundee - That's not a knife" scene with opAmps :D BTW: Congrats to your TekScope which looks awesome too and many thanks for sharing such great content!
Thanks Ralf..... Thats not an op-amp..... This is an op-amp! LOL :^) A good friend of mine "Steve" had the scope in his lab. He was nice enough to part with it. Great scope for digital work, and nice screen to display info for video work..... For low noise analog work, I will definitely stick to my TEK type 547 scope. "Absolutely" no comparison in that regard.
Awesome! I found one of these in MIT's ham radio room. It was this same model I think. Now I want to build something with it after watching this video!
Great video and as always I learn something, keep it up Mr Carlson. Thanks for the best on TH-cam
It's obvious that you had a lot of fun making this video. It was quite entertaining to watch. Thanks for sharing this old tube op amp with us!
Way back when (1964), while my friends were into Ham radio, I built an analog computer, based on modules built into Vector aluminum cases. A typical Op Amp module was put together using one 6U8 and two 6AU6 tubes and the supply voltage was +-300V. Still have one right in front of me as we speak. The plug-in module used an eleven pin octal socket. Fun stuff!
Also, nF was not an unfamiliar way to express capacitance at the time.
Enjoy your videos, for sure.
Before watching this video I was having just theory knowledge on opamps and analog computers and I have to memorize most of it🤯, after 43 mins I can understand the whole book which I read during my engineering. Thank you very much.
I have been waiting for this for some time! This should be great!
Today is our 36th wedding anniversary, and I am watching Mr. Caslon's Lab. Fascinating!Nice op amp Paul. Thanks for sharing.
Saturday will be our 40th. Congratulations, now go get her some flowers!
Happy anniversary Buddy, all the best wishes to you and your wife!
Happy anniversary as well James!
Happy anniversary Buddy to you both
Thanks Paul, I enjoy all of your videos.
I remember the LM341 op amp. It was the standard transistorized op-amp on a chip that came out in the 1970s. But, I LOVE this tube op-amp. And I love that you found it and showed it to us Paul !
I enjoyed this lesson so much it's been reminded 3 times. Keep up these invaluable and very particular lessons !
Thank you for making my Lunch hour at work the best. Working nights just got better!
Started to get hives when you showed the first picture! When I was in the Navy my first duty station had me working on a piece of gear that used , literally, over 500 of these things in a trainer that simulated 16 aircraft, 9 destroyers and 1 aircraft carrier. Each vehicle had it;s own operator and the device was housed around the perimeter of the base theater. During the winter months it was the warmest place on base! LOL
Thanks for sharing your story Phil!
My dad was an electronics engineer. He owned and operated Wes's TV repair in Banning California. He closed his shop in i981 and passed away in 1983. He was an ' old school' electrician. When the age of integrated electronics came to rise, he could not keep up. His eyes were failing him as do most older people. He taught me a lot about electronics. Especially the old tube based stuff. I never really got into electronics. I haven't even thought about it for more than thirty years. OK, so. Just out of boredom or maybe curiocity, I decided to watch this channel. It truly surprised me that I completely understand everything that was talked about here. You would think that after all these years, I would forget all that stuff. Get into the modern electronics and I am as dumb as a rock.
Nice video Paul, I guess the Op Amp won the video contest. Hope to see the others soon. Thanks again for another great video.
Very good video. Back in the tube days vehicles were making the transition from 6 volt to 12 volt electrical systems. So a center tapped heater would allow the designer to build a radio that could operate on either system.
It is 3am, video about old opamp. Brain: you are not getting any sleep tonight
Incredible video. Never seen a Vacuum Tube OP AMP. Been in audio for years. This was fun. Great video Mr. Carlson.
It's easy to sprinkle solid state op-amps throughout an audio circuit, but the same design philosophy would require a lot of tubes.
Don't know how you find all this neat stuff, and in excellent condition. Great video.
I really like watching your videos. There are times that I smile. I am a retired Broadcast Engineer. I regularly worked on transmitters that had 10 KV on the plate that could deliver up to 5 A. So you say this is dangerous and I smile.
I am just stunned with your level of knowledge. Amazing and thanks! I know next to nothing about electronics, but I’m enjoying learning.
Bob Pease started his career at Philbrick and wrote some of his Pease Porridge columns plus some articles in at least two compendium books about his experiences there.
We never had any of these Philbrick tube op-amps. They were way expensive for our control systems. We built our own with 2N930 transistors that we mounted as pairs in aluminum blocks to keep the temperature matched. At one time we had stability problems on a purchased production line that used tube amplifiers, thyratron tubes and finally a Ward Leonard generator set. We improved their tube op amp circuits as a quick fix, but then we replaced the controls with our own op-amp and SCR system. In those days, the SCRs were new and the best ones we could get were 2N688 (later on 2N692 became our standard SCR).
Our op-amp had a maximum gain of about 3,000 and when some commercial modules became available (from Fairchild as well as from Burr-Brown and naturally from Philbrick) that offered gains over 20,000, we occasionally used those. The next attempt was to use Fairchild 702 IC, but its unbalanced voltage swing was no good. Quickly, though, there came the 709 that was good enough to replace our own amplifiers as well as the modules. And then the godsend 741 arrived.
Great story Pellervo! Thanks for taking the time to write.
Electronics design: 1. Bob Pease built this varactor-input op-amp out of discrete components, based on an old design of Jim Williams. When Jim Williams died, Bob pease went to his funeral. On his way back, he crashed his vw beatle killing him... The day analog died. watched all old Bob Pease videos on YT. Such a gentle giant.
Thanks for the history, I'd somehow forgotten the 709 (kept thinking "So what was before the 741? Maybe 723 - but that ain't right..." :-)
Just out of curiosity, where did you work at these amentioned times?
Meri Lundström , It was Nokia Cable Works, or actually before the fusion, it was called Suomen Kaapelitehdas. My first job was trying to put together a pin hole sensor for lead jacket of cables. Those pin holes were formed by dirt particles in the molten lead that was extruded around the paper insulated telephone cable. The dirt was most abundant when we were using recycled lead from old lead acid batteries. My final report however had to state that no single sensor would do for all the different cable sizes, with the limit of usability changed somewhere around 0.5 inch diameter. Smaller cables could be sensed with a surrounding set of coils, while larger ones required a rotating probe or a set of multiple probes. Too complex, and moreover, the use of lead as cable jacket was already expected to fade away and be replaced with plastics. Situation might have been different with modern ICs - after all, the metal detectors at airports work with the same principle.
You did it again, I get ancient computers now😃
You are really good at explaining things, while I relax I learn-
If school were like this I'd have loved it.
Thank You, I am so glad I stumbled upon Your channel.
You're welcome!
This is amazing, seeing this technology working. And it's accurate, as well. Thanks for sharing it!
That 155V P-P output is also very impressive!
Been sitting around for a month with a broken leg, nothing to do, waiting for a video, I was getting ready to cut my wrist !
Thank you Mr. Paul!!
Great Video, I remember using these analog tube amps back in the 60's and 70's.
A 43 minutes video that looked like a 4 minutes video. That proves how well done and entertaining this video has been for me.
Glad you enjoyed Elías!
This is a blast from the past for me. I worked at Red Johnson Electronics 1966-68, at the counter, a surplus store on El Camino near Stanford where I went to school. One day I came in and one of the boss's friends was sitting with a large pile of these - he'd cornered the market for these devices at the same time that the first IC devices became available, and the only value they now had was for the tubes in the units so he had thousands he was pulling the tubes out of in order to sell the tubes as a single lot.
your demonstration of negative voltage using 9v batteries was incredibly comprehensive. i have been trying to wrap my head around it for awhile now. thanks!
Glad it helped!
@@MrCarlsonsLab i may have to continue my studies on patreon. you're helping a former foundry worker wrap his head around electronics before he goes back to school!
You're great Mr. Carlson! It's always a learning experience.
Takes me back to my "Electronics in the Laboratory" course in school. Our professor had used quite a few Philbrick op amps as a student. He brought in a Philbrick brochure and manual for us to read. We were all happy that the 741 had taken its place.
Yes, a tube op-amp was very interesting. It worked amazingly well and what a fantastic output range for an op-amp.
Why am i still watching mr carlson at 4.30am ? Wife got bored at 10pm and went to sleep i am in trouble in the morning !
Never saw an tube opamp before! Really enjoyed it! Thanks!!! 😊
Great learning experience. Thanks for the feedback loop on negative vs. positive.
As ever, an excellent, clear and clean explanation of a non very usual device (I mean, a tube opamp, not a solid state one). Thanks a lot for your great videos.
You're welcome!
Your videos are great. Learned a lot from watching them. I have been messing with electronics since I was 2. I never messed with anything that had tubes. I love watching them glow. I have started my journey into tubes. I got 6 magic eye kits and wanna connect to an Arduino and make a spectrum analyzer with them. I already have 1 on each stereo speaker for level indicators. Keep up the great work Mr. Carlson.
You're welcome! Sounds like a neat project.
As I went to college for electrical engineering I never even knew a tube op amp existed. How cool. Thanks. I was interested in analog computers but they were solid state.
Thank you very much for uploading that video I enjoyed it immensely I look forward to all your videos keep it up love your stuff
i love how you push things/electrons to the limit, and describe in detail what is going on !! you are equal to a college professor,.,. i love it
Good stuff, that tube op amp is a remarkable find. The math lessons reminded me of broadcast engineering class back in the early 80s. Thanks for the awesome project!
You're welcome!
I restored a Dymec (HP) 2401A hybrid tube/transistor 5 digit systems multimeter a number of years ago that was made in 1962. At the front of the input is a Philbrick Research supplied tube type op-amp printed circuit board. An interesting piece with very thick, gold plated traces. It inspired me at the time to read about GAP/R, and that was as interesting as the Dymec meter itself. Thanks for this segment.
My kinda cool! Mr. Carlson rocks
Just discovered your vids...GREAT work. I like how you have the balls and confidence in your knowledge to actually franken-build these little experiments...not only talk talk talk like most other channels. Build shit that CAN kill you...THAT is the ticket!
That was a blast from my past. Well done.
Thanks for the great video and helping me to better understand my old Heathkit EC1! I really miss it😢 Keep up the excellent work!
I'm speechless... Excellent lesson! 🤗 🤗 I've learned so much about this tube op amp!! 🤗 🤗 🤗
I would have not even believed there was such a thing. Really cool.
I love this. Gunna build one thanks !!
Dude. Build a super scary high voltage oscillator.
@@virtuosomaximoso1 You obviously don't know this dude. You should check out his media.
Bro u gotta put at least one of these in a synth. Like it’s basically required that you have at least one tube these days in everything if you want that real mojo
Great demonstration of the op amp. happy to see tubes involved. 73, ad0am
I have never seen or heard of an op amp so I learned something new today
Great job Paul! This is a great way to demonstrate the early COMPUTOR :)
Mr. C Nice work, thanks for sharing
Again 5 days in "good" school or 43 min with Carlson...
Don't forget mmf (micro micro Farad). That was also a very popular unit of measure for caps way back when.
LOL, that's going way back Mike. Thanks for stopping by!
Mr Carlson's Lab Or cm, that really confused me when I first saw it.
And mpF I've seen too - ie femto-farads
micro micro Farad was common term in my younger days but instead of saying "micro micro" we said "mickey mikes". I still like the old equipment. Thanks Paul for teaching those days to the "New Comers".
Yes, I remember that, usually used for the mica caps.
That was really great - it seems you had fun too!
YABBA DABBA DOOO! Another AWSOME video. Totally worth the wait!
I actually have very little interest in vaccum tubes, I am a solid state guy, but you make such great videos with such detailed explanations, I am addicted!
Great! Thanks for your comment.
Awesome video mr Carlson big thumbs up 👍
This was really neat to see work, and the explanation was great.
That is wild!! What a find! Thanks for sharing.
The time that the internal circuits were openly shared with the user. Great job!
Wow nearly 50 views in 1 minute. Proof that people love your videos.
New Carlson video, and it's TUBE based!
I get up at 4 am if a new vid is out..
Great video. I’ve been playing around with “solid state” analog computers to learn more about op amps. I’ve got a few working Comdyna GP-6 computers, and a whole stack of Heathkit EC-1s in various conditions, but mostly working. I find the subject fascinating. Most of the early missile guidance work was done with analog computers. I’ve picked up a couple of Philbrick P2 transistor op amps, but I haven’t had a chance to try them out. That op amp was in beautiful shape. I didn’t realize they used 12AX7s. I saw the base on eBay a few times, but passed it up because I thought it would be hard to find tubes for it. If anyone is interested in learning about op amps, the old Philbrick applications manual is a really interesting read. The pdf is available on the Analog Devices website. Thanks for your great work Mr. Carlson!
Tim Thompson, I had about 40 of those Philbrick op-amps back in 2002 from cleaning out a small electronics warehouse----they sold quite well on ebay, and the best part us, most of them had highly prized Telefunken 12AX7s in them that tested like new! Ka-ching!!!
Easiest way to quickly connect this type is to use an octal relay socket, gives you a nice base to use flat, plus it has numbered screw terminals.
The first time I used opamps was in the 60s at a NASA ground station. They were plastic blocks about 1 inch across and made by Burr Brown.
You are such a good teacher
the high speed computer used by the British in world war 2 to decode the ultra secret enigma german code. used a room full of vacuum tubes. it was digital flip flops. this Analog Op Amp is interesting. must have been fun keeping those things calibrated.
Thank you for the simple explanation of negative voltage.
Nice Work Mr. C thanks for sharing
You're welcome!
Another informative video. One other thing I learned, in all my years in electronics (60 + years), I always thought that the writing on the tube designated the filament voltage, the engineers initials that developed the tube, and of course, the number of elements. Oh well, learn something everyday.
What a bunch of awesome test equipment. Wow!
Truly a piece of history. I used to work there.
We used literally scores of K2W's in the Navy's X14A6 Antisubmarine Warfare Tactical Simulator at the Navy Operating Base (NOB) in Norfolk during the late 1960's. They were driven by a digital time base established with a huge magnetic reed switch column that was a mechanical precursor to the soon-to-be all solid-state digital signal generator.
it's probably still in use and the most accurate working device there ;))
I did enjoy this video Paul.. Thanks for this sharing!
In a similar vein I remember "FETtrons" - solid state direct replacments for valves (tubes). The FET circuitry mimicked the performance of a particular valve and could literally be plugged into the existing valve socket,
Funny, I mentioned FETrons to an acquaintance just a couple weeks back -- so that's twice in 50 years that those have come up in my conversations :-)
This video answers or illustrates a great deal of what Paul is always mentioning about the nature of capacitors. The risky nature that is.
This is a great video.
Absorption.
Very cool demonstration. Didn't know about the derivation of the 12.6 CT filament. Educational.
Came across these exact tubes researching analogue computing, really interesting video! Would love to try a Wein Bridge Oscillator using this beastly op amp! :)
The two battery - + power supply explanation was excellent.
Your videos are incredibly interesting and when you work with tubes I'm remembering my old Telefunken Bw TV where one time I replaced a tube.... just saw the only tube not lighting up 😊