Student Pilot crashes during landing at Old Bridge | Camera Footage Included
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 ก.ย. 2024
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Thanks to Rob for sharing his camera footage and audio.
Visit his channel - th-cam.com/video/46Xt2dbbk8I/w-d-xo.html
Why is Rob referring to the woman as "a female" and "a girl" like he is some kind of Ferengi? Why is he even pointing out emergencies that she was involved with that have nothing to do with the accident (and which she handled extremely professionally if you watch the linked video)?
@@jqxok The email also says that the female CFI we heard flew the plane that crashed before and had problems with it. I think he is trying to say that there might be some problems with the plane resulting the crash. Rob probably knows her so he heard the stories from her.
@@colonelwanovich5554 Well, yeah, but her gender doesn't have anything to do with that. Mentioning it once is fine, but why harp on it? (Then again, the email didn't have the best English in the world, so we can just chalk it up to writing and/or language issues.)
@@HiddenWindshield it’s just an easy way to distinguish her with others as she is the only female on the frequency. It’s way much easier to recognize the only female voice than telling you the tail number.
@@HiddenWindshield Same reason we use pronouns in sentences instead of saying their title, name, or description again. It's easier.
Sweet parking job by the other landing aircraft though!
The other aircraft actually put out a video of this with his commentary, it's his video. He said that he first wanted to go around but then realized that he might be the first responder if he just lands, parks quickly and runs to the aircraft. He did great!
Tokyo drift parking job lol.
LLLike a gloooovvvvve!!! th-cam.com/video/XoeRgxyBH1Q/w-d-xo.html
@F. A. It's linked in the description
LMFAO!!!....I thought the same thing...was like dang, that dude just parked the shit out of that plane at the end:)
Everyone can criticize the second pilot all they want, but if I crashed hard on an uncontrolled field where there may or may not be any other personnel there to help me escape the aircraft, I would hope an experienced pilot would set down and help me regardless of how he had to land.
@KC Jones there's no ATC at uncontrolled aerodromes... It's a CTAF. That's why the guy stated that he would hope other pilots in the VC of the AD would land to help.
@KC Jones As the others have stated the second pilot made the go around call then decided to land after thinking it over, that's why I said in my original comment it was an uncontrolled field
@KC Jones ATC does clear aircraft to land at ADs, but only if the AD is controlled by a tower.
At uncontrolled aerodrome there is no twr, so pilots make the decision to land themselves based on a number of factors including: weather, approach, OTHER AIRCRAFT, runway conditions. Although these same factors are included at controlled aerodromes, ATC handles the traffic so you don't have to; it's still good to look out for traffic yourself however. ATC clears you to land if there's no traffic movements that'll pose a threat to your approach or landing; however, at uncontrolled aerodromes you make that call as to whether traffic will intervene or not.
@ CRB Conservationist - you are absolutely spot on. There may be absolutely no one around at an uncontrolled airport to assist in an emergency. The pilot could cook or die of injuries waiting for someone to come help. The second pilot did precisely the right thing….and he did it very well. Land if possible to see if he can help. Anyone that has landed at Oshkosh during the air show - or has done any formation work - should be fine landing with another plane on the runway as long as there is enough room.
@KC Jones Yes you can. The decision is 100% on the PIC to continue. ATC just have to resequence other airplanes. In this case, there is no tower and all the communication was on CTAF.
I see a few comments here talking about "pulled too hard", "stalled" and so on.
What might've happened instead is not pushing hard enough on the yoke during go-around, either forgetting or not having enough strength (especially for a young student)
A C-172 properly trimmed for landing will exhibit a strong pitch-up moment when full power is applied for a go-around. You need to either apply a lot of forward pressure on the yoke right away or be quick with the trim wheel (or both), otherwise the plane will stall.
While that skill should've been mastered before solo, it still manages to catch student pilots by surprise.
Non-pilot here. Is that something you can practice? I get talking about it, but practicing & getting muscle memory of a bounce / go around?
@@oldRighty1 It is practiced ("go-arounds") extensively prior to solo.
Ive never realized that a smaller framed pilot might not be able to slam that yoke forward in the go-around. Full power, yoke forward, clean up. I remember being 17 and thinking this is rough haha.
@@UncleKennysPlace understood go arounds are practiced, but after a bounce? I'm assuming that is a very different feel.
@@oldRighty1 Short of the bounce being severe enough to damage the airplane (if you suspect that you do your best to keep the plane on the ground), the procedure would be the same as a regular touch-and-go or go-around.
During my time as an instructor we trained students for this exact situation, but at altitude. Configure the aircraft in an idle glide with full flaps, trimmed for approach speed. Have the student shove the throttle forward while not controlling pitch and observe the nose rise rapidly towards a stall. One time is all a student needs to see the importance of keeping the nose down during a go-around. A couple more times with them practicing smooth, prompt power application and the correct elevator input to keep the nose set for level flight will give them the tools they need for this scenario. I'd encourage any CFI seeing this to incorporate it into their pre-solo training.
Anf some cfi need to stop shoving go around down students throat. Teach em how to recover from a minor bounce.
I was trained with go around for days on end before I started to train for landing in seriousness. I always had the chance to land the airplane at the end of each flight but the practice of landing didn't begin until I consistently nailed the go around.
My pre-solo instructor would hold the weight on the go around everytime 🤦🤦 I had no idea what he was going on about telling me to "hold the nose down" until one time he just let go on me 🤦🤦 absolute tosser of an instructor...
@@StrikerFin How? Can you give some important points to manage and consider? Thx.
@@StrikerFin If people don't stigmatize the bounce, then bounces are non factor. If the students get the impression that bounces are bad then they may react negatively to them. So teach the students that bounces are not bad, they are just part of learning. Go to a long runway and make bounce landing and teach bounce recovery by keeping holding the landing attitude until the airplane settles down. Too many CFI's overly concentrate on making perfect landing during training that imprint the negativity of bounces which led to panic. I bounced during my first solo too but it was a non factor. I still bounce once in a while, especially when I don't fly for a while. Again, don't emphasize the negativity of bounce but it is just a part of learning and flying.
I think people are confused by the e-mail at the start. The female CFI mentioned was not in the accident plane, she was in the plane that was diverting (you can hear her voice on comms saying that they will divert to another airport). The e-mail just states that the same airplane has had multiple accidents before, the female CFI mentioned (CFI = Certified Flight Instructor, not a student pilot) and the student pilot are two different people.
CFI = Certificated Flight Instructor. Not chief.
@@Cepheus25565 Yeah my brain went bye-bye for that sentence it seems. Meant to say certified flight instructor not whatever the heck I wrote lol.
The email was very confusing.
@@oldRighty1 Yeah it was, not gonna lie. As a non-native speaker I had to read it multiple times to realize that he's talking about how the aircraft has had multiple accidents before and not about its pilot.
I'll admit that at first I thought the emphasis on "female" and "girl" was someone showing their issues, but I think it's actually just meant to help us tell one pilot from another.
I once had a first-solo student go off the runway due to rudder oversteering. It is absolutely the worst feeling you can have as a CFI. I feel for this instructor and student. Thankful that the student is ok.
I don't see how it's possible that an instructor was in the vehicle, but I don't know the facts. Wouldn't any sane instructor intervene when he tried to take back off with no airspeed? This seems like a student's solo flight.
@@markbtw7987 That seemed to me to be made very clear, no?
@@HalfShelli A good teacher allows their students the freedom to make mistakes, but this is a bit next level.
@@markbtw7987 you would be shocked at how many pilots despite a strict and solid regimen of training in fundamentals such as V speeds and their correlation to takeoff performance end up fucking up… I speak from experience-
I was doing touch and go landings way back in the day when I was getting my license. In the excitement, despite already having plenty solo landings and takeoffs, I full sent the throttle before I could get the flaps up. See most pilots especially young students will naturally want to “correct” the issue by pulling flaps immediately. I went to do so but my CFI was taxing with another student and came on the radio… he said verbatim “don’t you do it son” and sure enough, I did not fucking do it. Took off with 40 degrees flaps, waited to get positive rate and 500 Ft AGL, got Vy and started pulling flaps slowly as airspeed came up. He likely saved my life and limbs on that. Point is… shit happens
I remember my dad telling me about his instructor hopping out to take a piss and leaving him to do more touch and go’s after doing a few pretty well. He said after 4 or 5 he got the call on the radio to come back to the ramp and the the instructor said he did pretty good from what he saw from his (bathroom) office. This was also the early 70’s so a different time period.
To the pilot:
Congrats on surviving one hell of a rollercoaster ride.
I hope your injuries are inconsequential, and you'll keep getting joy from flying, regardless of this... minor setback 🙂👍🏼
to the CFI who cleared this guy for solo... consider quitting.
The student pilot completed 3 pretty good looking landings with that CFI onboard just before his solo incident... watch the full video and its quite the drastic change in airmanship! Maybe after those smooth landings the bounce put him in panic mode and he started an unexpected go around and forgot a couple of critical steps! I'm guessing he was used to being smooth and hadn't bounced it in very much even when he first started flying 🤔
@@berryreading4809
Seems plausible :)
@@drjanitor82 By your logic, every pilot that has crashed in history should blame his CFI?
Actually he quit flying after this, the student pilot was only 16 he said he will never get in another plane and his family doesn't want him to ever fly again also. He took that as a sign to quit.
I am very impressed at the forward slip being performed by the 2nd aircraft to dump the altitude they had to help rescue the downed pilot. Watch how accurately he did that.
What should I be looking for? Newbie here. Thank you!
@@k.pacificnw02134 @ 1:00 the 2nd plane is applying right ruddder and left alerion and pushing forward on the stick/yoke.You loose altitude without gaining speed. It's a maneuver that needs to be taught more. It's an application that is used (not so aggressive) in a cross wind landing. Creates a tremendous amount of drag.
Dude in the RV12 absolute chad. Landing anyways to see if he could lend any kind of assistance to the student pilot who had an accident.
Yeah, he actually uploaded a video of this with his commentary, stating that he first considered going around but then realized that he was in a prime position to just land and run over to help.
@@Andrew-fg6zk link?
@@Andrew-fg6zk And in prime position to collide with firetrucks landing next to the accident like that.
@@normiepuppet He took procedure to his own hands and being glorify by it I don't get it, the aviation society is a bit of a cult of no ones does wrong until they do.
@@Atite_Lometen I always try to defer my opinion to support that of the person who was there, in the moment, trying to make a logical and well meaning decision. So in this case, if the second pilot deemed that decision necessary in that moment, and knew they could do so safely... Then, I think they are justified in their actions and I support them.
i am a c172 student myself and had a very similar incident about a month ago. (without the crashing part) i porpoised and decided to go- around at 45kts. thankfully i knew that pushing the nose down is important during a go-around. what you see here is the nose going up because they went full power under full flaps at a very slow speed. i can definitely see how a student may overlook a characteristic like that. glad they are okay.
does slowly reapplying power change anything?
@@pokpok97642 no - you put the power in pretty quickly then hit the right rudder to control the yaw. The key for a go-around is hold it level let the speed pick up, and remove the drag flap when all is stable, pitch up and continue on your merry way
This looks to be a case of pulling back on the stick too much and not pushing forward quickly enough. The drag flap will quickly bleed any speed and once that's gone, well... it goes down
@@pokpok97642 depends what you mean by slow. Too slow is bad, but yeeting it immediately fully forward can cause controllability issues. It should be more firm and steady while staying in control, but definitely not too slow.
@@pokpok97642 it makes you crash earlier.
the go-around procedure MUST be executed as follows, otherwise you crash.
• FULL THROTTLE
• CHECK RPM
• CARB HEATING OFF (in case you didn't turn it off in the final check)
• ATTITUDE FOR LEVEL FLIGHT UNTIL 60 KTS
• at 60 knots…
• FLAPS 10
• ATTITUDE FOR CLIMBING AT Vx
Or may not have the strength to do so. Im a small guy and after having trimmed for landing and then having to go around, it was very difficult to push the yoke and could barely do in it. Had to immediately retrim.
not many walk away from a situation like that and can use the experience for the future. i'm so glad they were ok
That's a classic go-around mistake. Cessna pulls up HARD with a full flap and full power. I was taught to push the yoke forward as your life depends on it, and watch the airspeed indicator to make sure you stay above the stall speed. If you have ever done one of those maneuvers, you will be surprised how much force is needed to keep the nose not pitch up. Also, let's not forget to watch the slip indicator and right rudder to keep the plane straight!!!
Whoever taught you to look inside at 2 gauges in a busy maneuver low to the ground should rethink that statement. You don't need a gauge to tell you everything outside is moving sideways.
@@theonlyguills I never say not to look outside. Do all three at the same time.
Trim wheel- that’s key to not losing that fight with the yoke… but well said my friend. I’ve heard of several accidents and seen one where flaps got pulled way to early before the plane could get Vy and dropped like a fucking rock
In my opinion all flight training should begin in gliders. Someone with glider training would not try to pull up when at a critically low airspeed.
@@testmcgee9230 didn't seem like the pull up was the issue, was more the (unsustainable) high pitch, maybe together with flaps, and consequent stall. You can't really learn "go arounds" in gliders, but I suppose you can learn better energy management.
No one is born with experience. Everyone can do mistakes, even though this was a bad and serious mistake.
The student pilot is okay thankfully! Hopefully he will learn of his mistakes.
Panic is the most deadly thing in a cockpit.
Accident pilot is male, idk why people keep saying she
You need a safe environment to gain experience though.
Most CFI's I know let students solo without them beeing even remotely ready for it.
@@ZicajosProductions people didn't fully read the email text at the beginning, that's why.
Whatever gender, this CFI should be thinking of another career. Almost got themselves killed for not doing a go around.
@@ZicajosProductions Does it really matter?
In a stressfull situation we can all do something wrong, a lot of armchair pilots criticising the student while she is just that, a student and is learning. Good thing is she escaped alive and this will probably become a very usefull training video.
From what I see, It seems like she bounced an tried to abort and go around, but she pulled too hard on the stick.
exactly my first thought.... tried to "go around" instead of trying to force it on the ground, which btw is a good move, but unfortunately stalled it
Accident pilot is male not female
We should definitely criticize all pilots when able. We don't get do overs. Too many pilots still deliberately stalling aircraft. If you don't understand how to push the yoke, you better learn real quick. Not all pilots should be flying.
If this turns out to be a pilot error, one should blame the instructor, not the student. However the chance that the seat got loose with the bounce and slid back during rotation isn't unlikely. We will wait for the report and see.
Looks like she tried to GO AROUND with full flaps. That's why the plane climbed so quickly. I actually made that mistake once myself and believe me it takes one hell of a lot of push pressure to keep the nose of the plane from raising up. I got lucky and reduced flaps almost immediately and kept hard forward pressure on the yoke until the plane was more stable but it took fast thinking to overcome the error to start with. Not proud of the error I made but was happy to see I was able to overcome this potential dangerous situation that could have been deadly. Glad this student was able to get away safely. Only her pride was hurt. I guarantee it will be a learning moment for her though. Once they debrief the flight she'll never do that again........guaranteed!
I’m glad the pilot is okay. I’m also glad to see so many fellow aviators responding with supportive comments. As we all know, it only takes a second for things to go sideways (no pun intended).
It is so easy to do this in a go around. When you add power, the nose will go up in almost all aircraft but especially small prop aircraft like in this case. That is enough to just barely exceed the critical AOA and lead to a stall. That is why pilots are specifically trained to push forward and add power slowly.
Before anyone starts judging, they should ask themselves if they really know, how easy the mistake of not pushing enough can be made!
I understand your thoughts on this, but training includes many go-arounds and T&Gs. If the A/C is trimmed for the approach, the pitch up at full TOGO power isn't something that cannot be easily countered. Something went wrong here. I'd love to know the outcome of the inquiry. (1,000+ hour 172/182 driver here)
Like going off the road in a car because you forgot to turn enough? That would be a really bad driver.
This student has no business ever being in an aircraft. You need to push forward to develop speed.
@@Steve74783 wouldn’t that be the purpose of learning?
It is indeed however at this airport where I fly from Go arounds are not possible. If you land, you brake. But I 100% understand what your trying to explain
I hope the pilot is okay 🙏🏼
I saw the clip before. Thanks for the audio clip
The pilot had few injuries. waiting on some further info on him
im just glad the pilot survived. No one is immune to an accident.
Maybe vaccine may help the affected
Hey, he walked away and nobody else was hurt.
Good landing in my book.
Whew!. Thought we were going to be putting RIP's in the comments there for a sec. Nice job by N713 paying attention and keeping cool! Glad everyone is OK.
Today we learn about stalls and stall recovery. At 50 feet AGL.
Glad my instructor showed me how to stall/recover at a much higher altitude.
I don't think you can really recover from a stall at this altitude lol. The ground will recover your stall for you.
Looks like a trim stall - nose up trim for the landing - student was confused and unable to overcome the control pressure with the trim when go around power was added. Climbed straight up and stalled.
The text at the start seems confusing: It looked like it was describing the pilot who crashed but instead it actually only describes a CFI who is in a third plane (Cessna 172, N713) which diverted, and then the guy in the second plane (RV12) who landed after the crash.
Apparently the person landing is a student whose communications we do not hear in the video (N8074E), but we hear his/her instructor who was on the ground shouting about fire etc. Am I correct in this interpretation of the situation?
(And it just happened to be that very CFI 3rd in the circuit who had earlier had an emergency in that very plane that crashed. But was not piloting it this time.)
That's how I understand it too. And that this plane have been involved in a few cases previously.
I am in no way claiming that this is what happened, but rather speaking from my own experience.
In a go around situation, as others have mentioned, a C172 when applying full power and in trim for landing has quite a powerful pitch up, if landing with flaps 30 (some schools teach F20 others teach F30 for preferred landing config) this pitch up can be quite hard to combat, and requires an incredible amount of force pushing against it. For someone with a lot of experience and practise, this is manageable but definitely noticeable, but for someone learning and with little practise this can either be a force too hard to combat or still catch you by surprise even if you’re expecting it. This would then lead to a stall as the pitch up will slow the aircraft and the wings will lose lift. It’s an unfortunate situation that thankfully the student walked away from, but if this is what’s caused it it’s a valuable lesson to teach that you need to be ready for this and practise it often
Thank you, this explanation / hypothesis really helped me a lot! Much appreciated!
…and that is why the blame for this accident goes exclusively, 100% to the instructor.
the student is a student, so doesn't know better. if the instructor says "go fly solo" the student will fly solo. hey dude, can you properly execute a go around? "sure thing".
it's the instructor's job to predict that this fellow is unable to hold the yoke down.
@@drjanitor82 He pulled off 3 good landings just before the incident with the CFI onboard... I'm guessing he'd never bounced it in like that and performed a panic induced go around... which sadly caused him to quickly forget some important steps... hell he probably even pulled back after throwing on the power, even after being trained to keep the nose down 😬 I'm just glad the kid survived!
Credit to the student pilot, she was terrified but did a lot of things that under the circumstances are not easily accomplished, including aviating, navigating and communicating. Whatever happened on final sucks, but she made it that far and I hope she continues flying and finds a good career in aviation, she deserves it! Arm chairing her now isn't appropriate, let's just wish her a full and speedy recovery.
I was flying overhead doing flight lessons my instructor was the fine lady on 1:19, we diverted to Monmouth airport in the end
It’s a weird sensation to know that 30 minutes before the accident I took off runway 24 and had to listen to this all on frequency.
glad the pilot made it out (also that parking job wow)
This is terrifying to watch
Really confusing as others have said. So the accident pilot was a Male, Student pilot? Rob, the submitter, was in the 2nd airplane who announced the go around? And the female CFI mentioned in the email, which flies the accident airplane regularly, was the 3rd plane to land which asked abou the divert? So who on earth is on the ground shooting the video?
According to the other comments the guy that was flying Rob. It’s his camera
The second plane announced the go around but then decided to land, stop as quickly as possible and run over to help.
No the second airplane, the one that landed is also the one that announced it would go around but then he changed his mind. The female pilot apparently did divert to some other airport.
The camera is apparently set up there all the time. I've seen other incidents at this airport from the exact same camera angle.
@@TankTheSpank The guy flying was on the ground filming himself crash?
@@donmoore7785 Look at the comment regarding VASaviation. He mentioned it.
Wow glad pilot was okay.
The best lessons are the ones you survive to learn from. It was expensive, but better that the cost was the airframe and not the pilot! Also it seems from the write up at the beginning that this aircraft had a case of gremlins.
I learned this same lesson by flying with my CFI. No planes were harmed in the learning of the lesson.
A pilot student flying the plane and a filming student filming this video. Awesome!
Hard landing with a bounce, possibly due to some unexpected crosswinds (looking at around 10-20 foot) that wasn't properly corrected/compensated for with the rudder. Attempted a go-around after what appears to be 3-5 seconds of indecision, pulled too hard, and stalled. - Very basic, but entirely understandable error for a nervous learner.
Glad no one was hurt.
May not have pulled that hard. Depending on how strong she was if she didn't trim for the power on she'd need to make sure she kept nose DOWN (ie, some good force FORWARD). If you are a bit less strong that can be counterintuitive to be jamming things forward. I'm actually impressed with how slow she got that plane before it nosed in!
@@randominternet5586 You might be right, but it looked like a pancake stall to me. Dead in the air. Which is more indicative of pulling hard up with not enough power.
@@PigeonPlucker I zoomed in and played at 1/4 speed. Could not see the elevator position, but to me it looked like the pilot pulled the yoke all the way back. I don't think the a/c would have nosed up that quickly by firewalling the throttle....It does take a few seconds for the power to come up.
@@TheKaptainkraig Oh I'm 100% convinced this was a full panic yank on the yoke. Pulled too hard, pitched too high, not enough airspeed. Probably one of the most common causes of aircraft accidents.
@@PigeonPlucker Pause it and advance frame by frame by hitting the "period" key on the keyboard ("comma" key to reverse 1 frame). Elevator position says all.
Glad the pilot is OK - gotta be hard as a new pilot to know to push forward when at such low altitudes, after increasing throttle, until speed is up
That bounce freaked him out and he may have thought about a go around and forgot to give it power in the panic. I don't know. I do know that must have been a scary ride though
He*
He gave it power. But with the flaps down and the airplane trimmed nose up (typical attitude for a landing) when he added full power the airplane nosed up excessively, which slowed its forward speed while also stalling the wing from the high pitch angle. The aircraft fell with zero room to recover.
When we add power on a go-around, we need to push forward really hard to prevent the nose from raising like that.
@@ZicajosProductions he said he though?
@@henrygambill8188 Edited it later.
@@henrygambill8188 yeah, the comments kept saying she so I just went with the flow. Lol
Unfortunately airplanes don't come with training wheels and I'm glad the student was ok. I'm sure he'll be a really good pilot with acute attention to detail going forward.
That's why students fly "tricycle gear"... (training wheels) before, if ever getting a tailwheel endorsement.
As a long, long-time pilot, watching this breaks my heart.
They survived, but I get what you're saying.
As a long time engineer, fixing this breaks my heart.
@@martinholmes1493 As a airplane owner this financially breaks my heart.
huh.
As a long-time amateur luthier, watching this breaks my heart.
I used to sneak this situation into unusual attitude recoveries. They put their head down, I did a chandelle with partial flaps, trimmed it way nose up, and called for the recovery. Most of my unusual attitude lessons included mis-trimming the aircraft. It got the student to control the airspeed and PUT the nose on the horizon. One warning: be ready for the spin because about half of them will try to put you in one.
This accident happened at my local airport about 10 minutes from my house. Pretty scary to see but thankful to hear the pilot made it out OK. Thank you, VASAviation for providing this ATC/Video footage so student pilots and others can use it to understand what went wrong and how to avoid such an incident. I’ve watched this channel for years and never thought something so close to home would be uploaded!
Finally my airport is featured on this channel
All I know is that if this pilot keeps at it they'll be very good at go arounds. Mistakes are great teachers, and that plane can be replaced! Really glad the pilot survived
Don't let this end your enjoyment of aviation. I have very little experience in high wing aircraft and I could have made a mistake like this. Go Arounds are very stressful situations ontop of the fact that, in your mind, something is saying you failed this landing, try again. You screwed up, but you survived in relativelygood health. Sometimes the best ways to learn is to really fuck something up. Don't let it end your aviation journey. Make it a life lesson that you learn from and get some more experience with an instructor. I will say to use the runway and ground effect to your advantage. Get off the runway...slightly, and increase speed in ground effect, then take off and start slowly losing flaps.
This isn't a game changer, just a hard lesson.
This is a strikingly common issue I've seen with the C172. If you go around at low speed and forget to bring the flaps out of full, the airplane becomes wildly unstable and easy to stall/spin right back into the runway. This exact same thing happened at the school I worked at. Student survived. But it was yet another bounce, followed by a go around that did the same thing. It's very important to keep that forward pressure in until you're cleaned up because the nose wants to pitch up excessively when you throw full power in and those flaps are generating a lot of downward airflow on the tail. I love the Skyhawk, but it really does require a lot more care near the ground than some others I've flown.
Flaps generating airflow on the tail? LOL. Not quite.
@@joecooksey4331 Flaps do increase downward forces on the horizontal stab, which is also why there is a pitch up moment when putting them down as well. Brush up on your knowledge.
It's easy to judge ahit after the fact. I wasn't there. My heart wasn't racing and time wasn't slowed down for me. I have a lot of experience in very stressful situations but not everyone does. Glad to see she made it out. To play that back seat pilot if only she had kept the plane level she would have had a good landing. But again without mistakes we don't learn. Glad she survived
He
Bounce and slight climb is nothing to worry about. He should have maintained the pitch and let the Cessna lose speed slowly and settle back down to the runway. I couldn't tell if he added power, but he definitely exceeded the proper angle of attack and stalled the plane out.
'Good judgment comes from experience; experience comes from bad judgment' - fly another day, lesson learned.
Solo flights can be stressful, especially when you encounter landing irregularities and need to go around. One major problem is not giving enough forward pitch on the elevator during the Go-Around, since there is a lot of Nose Up trim during the approach adding power will produce a strong pitch up force, resulting in Elevator Trim Stall.
This is my local airport, I got s picture of the exact plane taking off the exact airport back in august.
I think this was a mixture between "let it float" and "go around too optimistic"^^
As a student pilot, I've had a LOT of bounced landings. If you bounce over 20 ft, you can't hold the yoke steady back and work it out. Have to go around. But you gotta hold the nose in when you ram the throttle, or you go into a power on stall. Then its the equivalent of driving your car off the end of a parking structure. Scary. Ram throttle, Hold it down, get to half flaps, when you get to 65 knots, flaps up and pull out. I hope he's gonna be ok. I've got no problem with other people landing as long as their intention is to hop out and come help.
This almost happened to me. Luckily it was a very gusty day and the wind picked up after I stalled, giving me the airspeed to recover and go around. I definitely reviewed and practiced go arounds more thoroughly after that
wow.. that's amazing. it almost happened to me but with the CFI onboard.. Same airport.. he yelled new cuss words
I know it´s not really the same but his remnds me of a glider incident we had on the field, when I was a glider student. The poor guy had his first solo and messed up the flare because he came in to fast. Me and my instructer had just landed a fe minutes earlier and were towing our plane back to the start with some dudes. The glider stalled right next to us at roughly 20 feet. When we saw it about to happen everybody was screaming like hell "Stop pulling! Push! Damnit, push!" He never did (was in panic and freezed). Fell like a stone. Poor guy got back injuries from that one. But he survived and recovered.
@VASAviation you really need to delete this and reupload with clarifications about who's who. These comments are a mess because everyone is confused about who's piloting the plane that crashed, who was on the radio, who the CFI referred to in the email is, etc.
Not to take away from your work or promote anybody…. but the guy who was behind the student pilot in the pattern made a video from his perspective.
That's Rob. The guy who sent me the video and audio. Camera is his property.
This is one of the reasons I don't trim ALL the pressure out during landing. Sure, I may need to pull a bit more - and I'm not a big guy but, On the few go arounds I have had to do, the pitch up moment was never too intense.
It's also good for getting your muscles ready for the strength needed in the flare
Oof! That pitch angle when trying the go around (I'm assuming). When you forget that you're not flying an F22.
I had a go around years ago where I had to go against my natural instincts to pull back and consciously make an effort to push forward, because I was going so slow at the time. If I was less experienced at the time, myself and my passenger would have crashed.
Exactly aircrafts do the exact opposite at different speeds, it's only practice that makes you better. I was watching navy pilot procedures landing on deck, and with jets its even more difficult landing on moving object in the wind, say your missing deck by coming in too short because of wind then you fire up engine but yoyr flaps still are full, and jet goes into barreling stall immediately, only few know how to pull out of it or ditch/eject correctly. Everything is opposite that pilots are used to at regular speed and using vertical stabilizer the opposite way of the stall, in split seconds. They go over each procedure in steps until it is second nature, and new procedures are added every time there is a near crash so it's mind bending flying millions of dollars of tech
I took flying lessons there in my teens. I'm surprised by the report indicating two different plane issues (throttle cable and power-out). It sounds like the planes might not be getting maintained properly if both those incidents occurred in the same year. Glad the student was okay.
Link
@@a.nelprober4971 Here is more info on the plane's owner, but I can't find that article now that mentioned throttle cable and power-out issues.
Public LLC Record:
Name: N8074E LLC
Registered Agent: Joseph P Holt
Business Purpose: Flight Training Services
My question is why this student was allowed to solo in the first place.
Wow. The dude was not ready to solo....That is for sure since he stalled out the plane falling back onto the runway.
this is what your "friends" want for you . The "best". dont tell people your goals because your own damn family will be against you .
Ouch. Glad no one is hurt severely. But the poor Cessna...
that looks like a poweron stall and then the beginnings of a spin. yanking the yoke perhaps contributed to this and was not managed allowing the rest of the events to progress.
seems like incorect aircraft airspeed/attitude management unfortunately but will be interested to see the official report.
One time when I was a student pilot, on a smooth night flight, just above the runway when I start to flare, the seat unlatches and slides all the way back, taking my hand and the yoke with me. Thankfully it wasn't a terrible landing, thought it was pretty hard. And it also probably helped that my instructor was in the right seat, but he wasn't aware of my new seat position until after rollout. Needless to say, I explained to the instructor and the aircraft was grounded for maintenance.
Now, I am definitely not an investigator of any sort, nor have I flow in some years, but looking closely at 0:30 reminded me of my scenario; the sudden pitch-up attitude followed by what I think is the students hand keying the mic briefly due a sudden jolt of some sort, maybe the seat suddenly flew backward like the one on the aircraft I flew some years ago? Of course, hard to say, what do I know?
Not sure if it’s in the 172 but I have heard of seat rail issues in one of Cessnas high wing trainers (maybe was a 152) where they can fail if they haven’t been serviced recently. Idk though, I’ve only flown pipers.
I like how the guy was says "Going around, 24" with a bored to death voice, as if this happens to him all the time when he's trying to land.
Someone needed instruction on a balked landing from their instructor. If you balloon the flare, the proper response is to give the aircraft a blip of throttle at the top of the balloon. It looks like this guy hauled back on the yoke and stalled at an altitude of about 40' AGL
What a scary situation. I hope the student flies again and hope the CFI doesn't get the book thrown at him.
Glad they survived.
First incident: touched down briefly and pulled up , insufficient airspeed , stalled at high angle of attack , nose down dive and crash.. Is that about right , what happened here ?
During his initial landing he let the airplane sink to the ground too fast. This caused him to bounce. After he bounced he tried to initiate a go-around (which is generally the correct thing to do in this situation). Something went wrong during the go-around. Don't know if pulled back inappropriately or just wasn't ready to make corrections when he applied full power. Either way he exceeded critical angle of attack. Stalled. Allowed the stall to develop fully and become a Spin. Spins to the left and smacks into the ground before the Spin can fully develop because he's only 100ish feet from the ground.
Bounced his landing, panicked and pulled back on the stick while throttling up for a text book power on stall
Pilots Psalm: Maintain thine Airspeed, lest the Earth rise up and Smite Thee!
Proves what a great trainer the cessna is. Very difficult to kill yourself or even seriously injure yourself in these birds
A week or so after checking out in a 182 I did something similar. Was doing a touch and go and forgot to reset trim before applying power. I remember it taking all my strength to hold the nose down with one hand while working to trim nose-down with the other. Easy mistake to make.
Yep my instructed soloed me in 8 hours...never told me how to handle a bounce. Lucky I'm alive.
Y'all need to do the audio from the Knoxville TN cirrus crash. I was one of the responders on that incident
Lucky. That was one hell of a bouce/splat on that one.
Oh my god.....never ever....NEVER....you should find yourself in such nose up position in an aircraft like this....except at or above 2000 feet over ground while practicing anything. Pushing nose down must be the first (and absolut logical in your mind) reaction when attempting to fly a plane. Phycial principals dont has to be in your head, thinking, calculating, and so on could be too time consuming, therfor only logical reaction can help in such situations.
I know, error can occure anytime, but as I said, knowing instinctively that an aircraft cant fly in such position, is mandatory.
Best whishes to the pilot. Hope he will recovery soon.
No need to divert land on the Drag Strip next to it.. or... or.. on the lake.. between 'em it's anarchy out here. that other plane landed in like 1500' of runway lol.. That was my home airport!! 3N6 Glad he's ok.
Oof, that must have been terrifying for the student. Hope she's okay and gets back in that cockpit!
he
@@jetroar17 she , a Filipino female pilot
Practice those Go-Arounds ! Seems like a good debrief is in order :'D Lucky Student
Too little flare, followed by a bounce, reactive yank on the yoke, and a stall... Well, any landing you can walk away from, I guess. Was that Old Bridge Airport in NJ?
What´s the deal? He survived. That´s awesome ! No criticism required.
Articles I read said just cuts and bruises and that the accident pilot was male
Yes, I don't know why everyone thinks the pilot was a woman. The female CFI the e-mail spoke about was not the one flying, they were the ones diverting. I think people are confused.
The CFI might have let this one solo a little early.
Bounce on landing, try to go around, then classic stall.
I'm confused, was he doing a go around? You can tell he obviously didn't have the power needed and went too high causing a stall, but I'm confused why he went around, the landing looked fine to me tbh.
Glad all involved are safe though.
She didn’t push the yoke forward after adding full throttle to go around in landing trim.
RIP. That really was tragic
RIP? I dont believe anyone died here.
Shows why it is incredibly important to practice stalls until you are beyond sick of them. Also why it is important to practice emergency procedures... Makes me wonder if the student was truly ready to solo.
It looked like the flaps were retracted on the attempted climb. 10 degree flaps would have helped, but it’s hard to see in the video. It also looked like the aircraft yawed substantially to the left which would be consistent with the left wing drop. As others have said, full power while in landing configuration will result in a hard pitch up. Making the decision to go around in mid air requires a lot of pilot input. He had plenty of runway ahead, would have been better to push the nose down with part throttle and get the plane flying before attempting a climb out. Flaps back to 10, trim down then full throttle.
Good practice to do a go around from 10 ft AGL a few times to get comfortable flying the plane at very low altitude.
“Consistent with left wing drop.” Lol. You mean left turning tendencies, stop pretending to be a pilot.
Woah! That is absolutely on the student’s CFI. Very important to teach early on the cause and effect of ground effect and what happens when the aircraft gets out of it.
So every students' accident is on the CFI ? I think not.
@@jimmiller5600 As far as I understand it (I'm an instrument student, not a CFI), if a student pilot receives their endorsement from their CFI, that means the CFI has given the legal confidence to the student to perform solo action - the first two things the NSTB is going to be looking at and then interviewing is the student's logs, and the CFI's records. The CFI has the legal responsibility to ensure the student is ready to fly and that they understand wholly the basics of flight. No, not every accident is on the CFI, and he didn't say every accident ever is; but this one probably is.
@@jimmiller5600 I said “that is absolutely on the student’s CFI”. I did not say every accident, I said this specific accident. The student clearly did not have the understanding of maintaining a minimum airspeed in order to prevent a stall, or have the training done before the solo to know how to recover from basically a slow flight configuration.
Looks like he bounced high and thinking it better to abort and go around, pulled up elevator while adding power.
At this point the planes drag became higher than available power, "below the power curve" as it's called, and was doomed.
Too low too slow with an engine too weak to substitute for lift, and he stalled.
Proper recovery from the bounce would be to add power but keep nose down until airspeed built up, then climb out.
You need experience to overcome instinct to pull up when the ground is approaching.
Glad he survived!
That is why you build muscle memory. I was teaching my sister to drive and I always put a lot of effort into teaching her to always think in avance. One a dog crossed the street running and my sister decided to say and break which make her lose control and crash s couple parked cars. That was an expensive lesson but what she never will forget. No idea if a dog or any animal has crossed her but after this incident she has more awareness of her surroundings and I feel she would know how to react better.
Power up pitch up clean up, no slower than Vx, call it 65, hold that nose down until you can get flaps from 30 to 20 or 40 to 20, and get some down trim in and you be good. Remember it’s trying to return to its last trimmed airspeed with full power in and will pitch up.😀
Am I wrong or the first thing you do is to advance full throttle, retract flaps and gain altitude in that order! I learned to fly in 1974 and that's what my brain said to do while watching this for the first time! I have a little over 1,200 hours in GA aircraft. Thanks for posting and take care.
I think you missed a step there. 1. Full Throttle, 2. push the yoke forward 3. gain speed 4. retract flaps. Retract flaps before you gain speed will also stall the aircraft.
Power in, carb heat off, establish air speed and arrest the decent. Establish Vy (which will be poor because of flaps) wait for sufficient altitude before reacting flaps. If flaps are electric slowly removing flaps will work. If manual flaps are used on position at a time (easy does it) Cessna 172 use both depending on year.
Glad they are ok. Almost had it!
The first part of text has everyone confused and I’m not surprised. It is very confusing and fairly irrelevant, why this very expected coincidence was even mentioned at all never mind at the start is weird 🤯
Ouch, watching that hurts my butt.
Armchair pilot alert: Would’ve been better off to just hold that backpressure off and let it settle down again, not *every* bounced landing should be a go around.
He's a learner. Going around would've been fine as well as setting it down - maybe that was actually the problem. Halfway between decisions we sometimes do half of both, like pulling the stick but not engaging the throttle. That's why CFI teach you to be decisive, you can't "half-go around".
[Edit: Pilot was male, not female - thanks for the comment.]
@@QemeH the accident pilot was male
@@ZicajosProductions Sorry, you're right - the CFI was female, got that mixed up.
There is no back pressure really,.but rather a nose-up trim and flaps that were not cleaned, and plus , a strong pitch up force caused by application of full power that led to this attitude. All that could have been partially countered by positive forward yoke pressure. But it would be tough to hold while building airspeed with full flaps.
Not an armchair pilot, but an actual student: I've bounced on many landings, and never needed to make it a go-around. Unless it's a really hard bounce that would lead to porpoising or you have a very short runway that doesn't give you enough room to recover, you can usually just hold the back pressure on the yoke, be patient and let it settle for a nice landing.
However, it would be very easy to panic, especially if you haven't bounced much before. And it would be VERY easy to let the nose get away from you when you apply full throttle for the go-around, and then stall exactly like in the video.
I feel for the student, my first genuine (unplanned) go-around on a solo was nerve-wracking, precisely because I was trying to avoid what happened here. Thankfully, I kept the nose under control; but I did forget to raise the flaps incrementally and ended up barely climbing on my takeoff. Mistakes happen all the time when you're learning; I truly hope this student recovers and continues his flying, he's got a helluva crash story under his belt already, and lived to tell the tale!
Was it better to let the nose slip left, or was there enough time/a good idea to kick in rudder and crash straight?