I always recall what Harlan Ellison said: “The trick isn’t becoming a writer. The trick is staying a writer.” Also an addendum to number 3/4: you will learn this the *hard way*. I have a list of about ten unfinished short stories-one of them stuck at six thousand words long-all of them good ideas, all of them with a high chance of never being finished, all likely because the execution has gone south and can’t recover.
Probably the truest truisms I've encountered here. I have a novelty problem where I jump from one project to the next once the writing gets difficult. And, it always gets difficult. I've finished four (terrible) books in twelve years, and probably started a hundred or so others in that time. Seeing something through to completion... I honestly don't know how so many writers do it, and yet there are so many book series out there - both traditionally and self-published.
@@duskburn I don't think experienced authors attend many workshops. Besides, the concept is fairly new. None of the great writers of the past centuries went to workshops, and they still produced brilliant texts. That said, I'm not against joining groups that can critique one's work. Getting some feedback can be quite enlightening, but I doubt that joining a group consisting of mostly other amateurs will make or break an author, especially these days when you can get so much valuable professional instruction for free on excellent channels like this one.
I jump from story to story when I’ve thought it to death and become bored because I’ve talked about it too much or know too much detail. That’s when it loses its mystery aura. Like having a date and there’s nothing left to talk about, so now you just want to go home.
I think you'll find that ideas are important, it's just what the ideas are and where they appear that may be misleading. If someone writes a book with a generic idea but the execution is good, the execution being good probably means there are hundreds of little good ideas sprinkled throughout the book that make it that way. So your single "idea" for a novel is not important, but to write a novel you need ideas, good ones, and you need them constantly.
I genuinely think "harsh truths" are a waste of everybody's time. The people you're talking to won't listen, the people who listen don't need the talking to, and really, it's not that big a deal. Telling people you'll have to write ten novels before you get one published is not a great inspiration to anyone. They have to have the passion for writing to not exactly care how many it takes to get published. That's something you're going to feel in your gut or it isn't. The notion that it's going to be hard on any level is not news to any person who has actually tried.
Great joke there on Paul Valéry's "...Abandoned" adage. I disagree on the importance of execution over premise. Of course, the execution must be at least competent. However, the most memorable great works have a unique premise. Too many forgotten novels are the result of an artist sweating over the execution, but not having a good idea in the first place. Many writers in my critique groups and clientele suffer this problem: They worked a year on an idea without really thinking or bothering to ask if anybody else found it interesting in the slightest. (Also, sorry to say that while I can see you are now wearing the clip-on microphone, it doesn't sound as if it was active. The audio still has that distant quality with reverb you can get from using the mic on the camera or laptop. )
That's a good point... I think there is value in assessing an idea as you mentioned and ideally you want a good idea and a good execution. I didn't end up using the lapel mic audio as it had some feedback issues... I'm still figuring out a way to fix the audio, I appreciate your patience on it.
Well what level of execution are we talking? Are we talking sentence level execution? Because I'm convinced Brandon Sanderson would be nowhere if readers cared about that, and his readers obviously care a lot about his ideas.
@@futurestoryteller As i said: "Of course, the execution must be at least competent." That means it effectively tells the story, doesn't draw attention to itself, doesn't have errors that ruin immersion.
Harsh, true, and if you learn to like the 'taste' of bitter, you just might complete a manuscript. An added thought... fatigue from working on the boring isn't because it's hard, it's because you're mind thinks it's going to talk you into do something else for that Dopamine hit. Make your writing a priority, your job, and when your mind truly gets into that alignment even trudge-work writing becomes exhilarating.
Great video and some harsh truths. @1:16 What does it say, if anything, about my novel (or me) that--after literally dozens of rewrites of almost all chapters over a decade--when I come back to a fresh reading of it after a break I enjoy it? @5:25 Killing darlings. The novel I'm working on had an entire developed character and plot line (basically a "reformed" Berserker [Saberhagen] with a personality and POV) and figured out that: (1) she was totally unnecessary to the main plot, and (2) deleting her would save 30.000 words in an already-overly-long novel. @7:52 In a short poem I wrote, I'm haunted by a really obvious and stupid grammatical error that escaped both me and the editor of the anthology it appeared in. I'm dreading what I'll find in the novel, if it ever gets published.
As to the revision thing ... there is also the one pass revision class out there. Perfectionism is a killer. As said mentor reminds us: Each work we turn loose is the Best We Can Do At That Exact Moment. Yes, three pages into the proof from the publisher, including Kindle, etc of the self publication, one is gonna find things that could have been done better. Use it in the next book. And this from someone who is on the umpteenth revision of a 10 year old novel ... because at 83K, there were four short stories masquerading as chapters. (side note, I have the one pass revision class, but can't really make it work ... i am soooooooooooo not professional. )
I don't write novels, personally. There's very little kudos or money in writing them. Very few people will care about your book, or that you've written one. You'll be just another name on a shelf, and your book will most likely remain there. At least you will have written a book and you've only wasted a couple of years of your life. There's harsh and then there's harsh, I guess.
I have a question. Speaking of masters of execution…what is your opinion of prolific writers? Do you think over time they actually become even better or are basically the same but just continue to become even more masters at being prolific? I’m truly curious because I really want to become even better over time, and I’m not sure whether prolific authors become even more improved with each book they put out. I wonder if being a little less prolific would allow more building up of skills if one concentrates on improvement and not just the chase of another efficiently-created story. If you could make a video that addresses this, that would be even more super awesome. ☺️
Its different for every author but I think a lot of authors do their most creative (or at least wide ranging) work at the start of their careers and once they start finding what works they keep refining with each new work. So their focus narrows but their quality goes up as they hone in on whatever is commercially/critically successful for them. For new writers I usually recommend writing as much as you can, but keeping an eye on improvement. Don't write just for the sake of writing, but also don't limit practice too much. Practice is incredibly important.
@@duncanosis6773 I think I have a built in regulator against getting sick of it. When the inspiration fades i work on editing, creating covers, illustrations, formatting or translation. There are so many aspects of producing books that there are always alternative lines of work to engage with. Translating between languages is more patience testing than editing, and that's what I'm doing now, but I can feel that another book is about to sprout.
I'm the weirdo who loves going back and forth editing and editing before even finishing the story, writing a new chapter whenever inspiration strikes and then go back to editing and re-reading and polishing. I'm also the weirdo that never wants the story to end because I want to spend more time with my characters, but also definitely knows when the story is told and over and then is sad 😂 I'm now in the last quarter of the book I'm currently writing and already panicking that the end is nigh.
On some level you're in good company. Tolkien rewrote things frequently ... eventually, he did turn LotR loose on the world, but it seems to have taken a decade for him to do so. Fret not. You're not the only one. (BTW: even when you finish the story, the characters will always be with you, whispering about tales that did not get included ... I'm of the opinion that this is why we have series.)
@@scloftin8861 I really do not want to compare myself to the great Tolkien 😂 But it's good to know that even the greats struggled with this stuff. Thank you. And yes, I agree, I think this is how we get series 😉
Wow. This is the video I didn’t even know I needed. And thanks for balancing humor with harsh advice. Love. Love. Love. And now I am going to subscribe.
1:22 oh, you have beta readers... lol gotta say, if seeking quick satisfaction from a good story at every expected level, writing if working a ft job is probly not gonna manifest as anything more than a clogged writing file... 25 years i spent writing a novel whilst working, now 4' of white hair tells tales itself... broke the novel down to 2, now thinking of 6? omg.... the backburner gets stacked with pots simmerin, the necessary neglectful simmer... it builds a fresh look when it's revisited.... agree with execution: the slain backstory is another harsh reality. but learning to pants if you're a planner is a way to let the inner muse tell a story, yet as a major pantser, learning to plan got my books completed! 4 to 30 revisions and rejections have led to some soon-to-be-released time travel paranormal romantic epics! Thanks for the vid, Duncanosis
I always recall what Harlan Ellison said: “The trick isn’t becoming a writer. The trick is staying a writer.”
Also an addendum to number 3/4: you will learn this the *hard way*. I have a list of about ten unfinished short stories-one of them stuck at six thousand words long-all of them good ideas, all of them with a high chance of never being finished, all likely because the execution has gone south and can’t recover.
No one wants to hear any of this, but they obviously, really should listen and take note. Thank you for this.
You're welcome!
Probably the truest truisms I've encountered here. I have a novelty problem where I jump from one project to the next once the writing gets difficult. And, it always gets difficult. I've finished four (terrible) books in twelve years, and probably started a hundred or so others in that time. Seeing something through to completion... I honestly don't know how so many writers do it, and yet there are so many book series out there - both traditionally and self-published.
They have money for "workshops" and great editors.
@@duskburn I don't think experienced authors attend many workshops. Besides, the concept is fairly new. None of the great writers of the past centuries went to workshops, and they still produced brilliant texts. That said, I'm not against joining groups that can critique one's work. Getting some feedback can be quite enlightening, but I doubt that joining a group consisting of mostly other amateurs will make or break an author, especially these days when you can get so much valuable professional instruction for free on excellent channels like this one.
I jump from story to story when I’ve thought it to death and become bored because I’ve talked about it too much or know too much detail. That’s when it loses its mystery aura. Like having a date and there’s nothing left to talk about, so now you just want to go home.
I think you'll find that ideas are important, it's just what the ideas are and where they appear that may be misleading. If someone writes a book with a generic idea but the execution is good, the execution being good probably means there are hundreds of little good ideas sprinkled throughout the book that make it that way. So your single "idea" for a novel is not important, but to write a novel you need ideas, good ones, and you need them constantly.
I genuinely think "harsh truths" are a waste of everybody's time. The people you're talking to won't listen, the people who listen don't need the talking to, and really, it's not that big a deal. Telling people you'll have to write ten novels before you get one published is not a great inspiration to anyone. They have to have the passion for writing to not exactly care how many it takes to get published. That's something you're going to feel in your gut or it isn't. The notion that it's going to be hard on any level is not news to any person who has actually tried.
Great joke there on Paul Valéry's "...Abandoned" adage.
I disagree on the importance of execution over premise.
Of course, the execution must be at least competent.
However, the most memorable great works have a unique premise.
Too many forgotten novels are the result of an artist sweating over the execution, but not having a good idea in the first place.
Many writers in my critique groups and clientele suffer this problem: They worked a year on an idea without really thinking or bothering to ask if anybody else found it interesting in the slightest.
(Also, sorry to say that while I can see you are now wearing the clip-on microphone, it doesn't sound as if it was active. The audio still has that distant quality with reverb you can get from using the mic on the camera or laptop. )
That's a good point... I think there is value in assessing an idea as you mentioned and ideally you want a good idea and a good execution.
I didn't end up using the lapel mic audio as it had some feedback issues... I'm still figuring out a way to fix the audio, I appreciate your patience on it.
Well what level of execution are we talking? Are we talking sentence level execution? Because I'm convinced Brandon Sanderson would be nowhere if readers cared about that, and his readers obviously care a lot about his ideas.
@@futurestoryteller As i said: "Of course, the execution must be at least competent."
That means it effectively tells the story, doesn't draw attention to itself, doesn't have errors that ruin immersion.
@@PaulRWorthington Why don't you try taking "yes" for an answer...
@@futurestoryteller
I can’t take Yes as an answer because I didn't ask you anything.
You asked me two questions. I tried to answer them politely.
Very good writing channel.
Thanks!
Harsh, true, and if you learn to like the 'taste' of bitter, you just might complete a manuscript.
An added thought... fatigue from working on the boring isn't because it's hard, it's because you're mind thinks it's going to talk you into do something else for that Dopamine hit. Make your writing a priority, your job, and when your mind truly gets into that alignment even trudge-work writing becomes exhilarating.
Yes absolutely, overcoming your own mind is critical.
"Would you have a great empire, rule over yourself." as Mr. Syrus so wisely said.
Great video and some harsh truths.
@1:16 What does it say, if anything, about my novel (or me) that--after literally dozens of rewrites of almost all chapters over a decade--when I come back to a fresh reading of it after a break I enjoy it?
@5:25 Killing darlings. The novel I'm working on had an entire developed character and plot line (basically a "reformed" Berserker [Saberhagen] with a personality and POV) and figured out that: (1) she was totally unnecessary to the main plot, and (2) deleting her would save 30.000 words in an already-overly-long novel.
@7:52 In a short poem I wrote, I'm haunted by a really obvious and stupid grammatical error that escaped both me and the editor of the anthology it appeared in. I'm dreading what I'll find in the novel, if it ever gets published.
“As God is my witness….. I thought turkeys could fly”
- Mr. Carlson WKRP
Enjoy your videos! Keep it up.
Thanks!
Just stared in the background until I figured out that is a WKRP picture. Kudos.
Wow, this makes me feel better, it's OK and normal to feel like the work has turned to drugery. I thought it was a sign that the work was crap.
it's always chapter 6, isn't it?!
Unless its chapter 5 or chapter 7...
As to the revision thing ... there is also the one pass revision class out there. Perfectionism is a killer. As said mentor reminds us: Each work we turn loose is the Best We Can Do At That Exact Moment. Yes, three pages into the proof from the publisher, including Kindle, etc of the self publication, one is gonna find things that could have been done better. Use it in the next book. And this from someone who is on the umpteenth revision of a 10 year old novel ... because at 83K, there were four short stories masquerading as chapters. (side note, I have the one pass revision class, but can't really make it work ... i am soooooooooooo not professional. )
I don't write novels, personally. There's very little kudos or money in writing them. Very few people will care about your book, or that you've written one. You'll be just another name on a shelf, and your book will most likely remain there. At least you will have written a book and you've only wasted a couple of years of your life.
There's harsh and then there's harsh, I guess.
I have a question. Speaking of masters of execution…what is your opinion of prolific writers? Do you think over time they actually become even better or are basically the same but just continue to become even more masters at being prolific? I’m truly curious because I really want to become even better over time, and I’m not sure whether prolific authors become even more improved with each book they put out. I wonder if being a little less prolific would allow more building up of skills if one concentrates on improvement and not just the chase of another efficiently-created story. If you could make a video that addresses this, that would be even more super awesome. ☺️
Its different for every author but I think a lot of authors do their most creative (or at least wide ranging) work at the start of their careers and once they start finding what works they keep refining with each new work. So their focus narrows but their quality goes up as they hone in on whatever is commercially/critically successful for them.
For new writers I usually recommend writing as much as you can, but keeping an eye on improvement. Don't write just for the sake of writing, but also don't limit practice too much. Practice is incredibly important.
@@duncanosis6773 Great opinion. Thanks!
I've published a million words that took me all my spare time for ten years to write, and I never once felt sick of it. What's wrong with me?
Maybe once you get to 2 million you'll feel sick?
@@duncanosis6773 I think I have a built in regulator against getting sick of it. When the inspiration fades i work on editing, creating covers, illustrations, formatting or translation. There are so many aspects of producing books that there are always alternative lines of work to engage with. Translating between languages is more patience testing than editing, and that's what I'm doing now, but I can feel that another book is about to sprout.
@@andreasboe4509what did you write?
@CSGOCOMPILER Premium bragging requires intelligence. Writing only takes inspiration.
Great art is never finished, only abandoned...
I'm the weirdo who loves going back and forth editing and editing before even finishing the story, writing a new chapter whenever inspiration strikes and then go back to editing and re-reading and polishing. I'm also the weirdo that never wants the story to end because I want to spend more time with my characters, but also definitely knows when the story is told and over and then is sad 😂 I'm now in the last quarter of the book I'm currently writing and already panicking that the end is nigh.
I do it all the time, and I don't even write as much as I want to, I don't get why this would bother anyone.
@@futurestoryteller Right? Editing is half the fun :)
On some level you're in good company. Tolkien rewrote things frequently ... eventually, he did turn LotR loose on the world, but it seems to have taken a decade for him to do so. Fret not. You're not the only one. (BTW: even when you finish the story, the characters will always be with you, whispering about tales that did not get included ... I'm of the opinion that this is why we have series.)
@@scloftin8861 I really do not want to compare myself to the great Tolkien 😂 But it's good to know that even the greats struggled with this stuff. Thank you. And yes, I agree, I think this is how we get series 😉
Wow. This is the video I didn’t even know I needed. And thanks for balancing humor with harsh advice. Love. Love. Love. And now I am going to subscribe.
Great advice. Thank you.
You're welcome!
1:22 oh, you have beta readers... lol gotta say, if seeking quick satisfaction from a good story at every expected level, writing if working a ft job is probly not gonna manifest as anything more than a clogged writing file... 25 years i spent writing a novel whilst working, now 4' of white hair tells tales itself... broke the novel down to 2, now thinking of 6? omg.... the backburner gets stacked with pots simmerin, the necessary neglectful simmer... it builds a fresh look when it's revisited.... agree with execution: the slain backstory is another harsh reality. but learning to pants if you're a planner is a way to let the inner muse tell a story, yet as a major pantser, learning to plan got my books completed! 4 to 30 revisions and rejections have led to some soon-to-be-released time travel paranormal romantic epics! Thanks for the vid, Duncanosis
the best writers know what they aren't good at.
I walked away from this comment😂
I just justify my typos by making fun of it in my next book.
It is a slog and it doesn't get easier unless you get lazy.
Ouch, that last one 😅
Harsh truths for sure!