I had a sudden realization towards the end of the game. I think shivers is Harry picking up on chaotic information from the pale, kind of like how the old trucker woman suffers from other peoples memories caused by her exposure to the pale.
@walterk9916 Inland Empire is your ability or tendency to parse the world through your own mind, but in an emotionally intelligent way. edit: addending to this that I.E is heavily associated with Harry's ability to use abstractions to distance himself emotionally from the world. Create a dreamstate, talk to your clothes, convince your partner of impressive and complex character motivations. Dream wide awake.
More or less? It's clear from the writing that part of the Return is a people's revolution or similar political event, much like the Yugo-Graad spring mentioned in the Graadian Literature book you can find. It's clear that because Shivers is Harry tapping into the Pale to gather perspective, the Return will probably also coincide with some event pertaining to the paracausal nature of it. But yeah, the author has detailed that 22 years after the game takes place, a revolution occurs in Revachol that grips the city so strongly that the Coalition decides to drop a nuke.
Haven't read the book, all my info is from youtube videos so correct me if I'm wrong. From what I understand, 22 years after the game there is a new innocence, Jean Miro or something like that. This guy is the innocence of nihilism and under his rule the moralintern starts dropping nukes across the world in order to hasten the pale's progression. The implication is that he nukes holes in the world like the one in the church. Iirc the book mentions that he also attacked Graad and other places.
@@hopecunningham8868 It should be noted though, Harry can change the future. It's possible to do it at least once in the game as-is: in the Moralist quest, you can receive a signal from Pale interference of Kim speaking about the generator on the island. But this can play before the tribunal, and you can make it so Kim is out of commission for that moment instead, so the words are never said. The Pale apocalypse and the bomb are just one way reality can go, but someone aware of what's happening has the potential to derail that future.
@@NG_v1 The Moralist International (Moral-Intern) were after her after she "did a job for them", presumably because after she completed her objective they deemed her a loose end and a potential problem in the future for what she knew. If you arrest her, she's pretty much an easy target for them.
Just for the sake of info i leave it here: if you have high enough Impossible check Shivers, after you return to the book store to tell to the shopkeeper about the hole in reality in the church, and that is not a curse and an actual hole in reality, you tell her to move to another city for the sake of her and her daughter's safety, the Shivers check says, that it would be pointless for her, for you and the entire Elysium Sorry, if somebody already said it in the comments Its basicaly forshadowing the book, that Revachol became independent due to a New Revolution (that is coming after the main story of this game), Harry probably had major role to play in it. Also because Revachol became an independent state, The Coalition nuked it to the ground.
I think this is referencing the book. In it Elysium really does face "The Great Bloodletting", or more specifically an apocalypse that ends in the world being consumed by the pale.
Three playthroughs and never saw this particular branch.... I'm still amazed how much content there still is in this game which I still need to get around to teasing out!
Spoilers for the end of the game I'm confident the miracle is the Insulindian Phasmid. One of the +'s during that perception check is "heard about the miracle". The discovery of an intelligent creature making its home in Revachol would be world changing. Also, there's another Shivers check when she talks about where her ID and travel tickets are, that aludes to the Phasmid playing with the bouy
@@likopinina6803 in my "I don't even know the number anymore" playthrough, i rewrited the save just to play with all maximum skills, really fun experience tho, i really felt that Harry went nuts with all those voices in his head :D
@@emp_izaro you could probably just open up the save with notepad or something. cheat engine would probably work too but Windows does not like that anymore.
In the church if you succeed a Shivers skill check and have high reaction speed you'll find out. That Revachol is going to be destroyed by a Atomic Bomb in 20 years....
What check do we think Kim made when he looked out to the sea and said trouble was coming? Can he even make Shivers checks? We know he has Authority, assumedly others like Logic and Hand Eye.
im digging through FAYDE trying to find variables for this but it's not much help. my guess would be that you have to have shivers on a certain level (probably four and up) and try to arrest klaasje but back off in the last moment. let me know if this works if you ever get around to try this
@@толямбокатеман When Klaasje suggests you give her a notice slip, ask what will change in that time. If you don't arrest her after that, the option will be there. You can't do this check if you arrest her or if you haven't seen that dialogue.
@@thyetyeyryeretyery Yes, another comment in another shivers video said that in the novel this game is based upon, revachol does become independent, but the coalition drops a bomb 22 years into the future. So the return is different from the bomb.
there's two things coming Her and the bomb "She" is a communist people's revolution in Revachol, again. the bomb was the response to the shores of revachol, once again, becoming a target-saturated environment for the militant wing of organized capital (The Coalition)
The whole concept of "The Return" seems to be a reference to a concept in Heidegger's philosophy-a salvation of humanity in one fell swoop during it's darkest hour. My memory is foggy on that one, but i can sence the connection. So "The Return" is not just a communist revolution, it's something greater.
Addendum: hell, "The Return" may even be a creation of a whole new political system-not communism, fascism or liberalism. Those of you insane or russian enough to be familiar with A.S. Dugin's work will get what I mean.
@@VashdaCrashProbably more that they are Estonian (and seem to be big on some stream of self determination), while Dugin's views hold an undercurrent of Slavic/Russian supremacy which harken back to the darkest periods of imperial and Soviet occupation. Personally I pick up on a lot of influence from Estonian independence in the game's themes, but I'm not an expert on modern Baltic culture, so grain of salt.
It's kinda weird that after reporting her to the Sunday Friend she actually does not get arrested and nothing changes in her storyline. Probably overlooked by the writers.
@@likopinina6803 Yeah, that's a rare situation because most players deal with him much earlier and he's not available when she admits to being an industrial spy. But the only true outcome is getting the honor point, I used it to get the honor achievement.
I have to wonder if The Return means the return of Harry DuBois, detective, or maybe it hints not so much as something returning to the world, but rather, the world returning to the pale.
@@likopinina6803 From context, that seems like the most logical meaning, but the only things that could really return to Revachol are either communism (very unlikely considering there are very few communists left), fascism (bad) or monarchism (bad). Also, The Return is prophesized to be the event that brings forth an independent Revachol, or at least what changes Revachol's standing with regards to the Moralintern, and not the change itself. At the church, you can name the nightclub Revachol West, which is very ominous.
There's an Esprit check during the ending where the police Captain is putting together a list of names, and Harry is a definite yes. I wonder if there's some connection.
I had a sudden realization towards the end of the game. I think shivers is Harry picking up on chaotic information from the pale, kind of like how the old trucker woman suffers from other peoples memories caused by her exposure to the pale.
Then what’s Inland Empire?
@@walterk9916 His role in the Remote Viewers Division, duh. It's totally real.
@@walterk9916 Schizophrenia.
@walterk9916 Inland Empire is your ability or tendency to parse the world through your own mind, but in an emotionally intelligent way.
edit: addending to this that I.E is heavily associated with Harry's ability to use abstractions to distance himself emotionally from the world.
Create a dreamstate, talk to your clothes, convince your partner of impressive and complex character motivations.
Dream wide awake.
Man dont ruin the magic by trying to explain it with your bullshit
So Revachol becomes independent because of "The Return" and in retaliation, the Coalition destroys it? Fucking brutal.
More or less? It's clear from the writing that part of the Return is a people's revolution or similar political event, much like the Yugo-Graad spring mentioned in the Graadian Literature book you can find.
It's clear that because Shivers is Harry tapping into the Pale to gather perspective, the Return will probably also coincide with some event pertaining to the paracausal nature of it.
But yeah, the author has detailed that 22 years after the game takes place, a revolution occurs in Revachol that grips the city so strongly that the Coalition decides to drop a nuke.
@@hem9483fuck off with your theories connecting shivers to the pale
In the church if you succeed a Shivers skill check and have high reaction speed you'll find out.
That Revachol is going to be nuked in 20 years....
Haven't read the book, all my info is from youtube videos so correct me if I'm wrong. From what I understand, 22 years after the game there is a new innocence, Jean Miro or something like that. This guy is the innocence of nihilism and under his rule the moralintern starts dropping nukes across the world in order to hasten the pale's progression. The implication is that he nukes holes in the world like the one in the church. Iirc the book mentions that he also attacked Graad and other places.
@@hopecunningham8868 It should be noted though, Harry can change the future. It's possible to do it at least once in the game as-is: in the Moralist quest, you can receive a signal from Pale interference of Kim speaking about the generator on the island. But this can play before the tribunal, and you can make it so Kim is out of commission for that moment instead, so the words are never said. The Pale apocalypse and the bomb are just one way reality can go, but someone aware of what's happening has the potential to derail that future.
Her, dying in prison after you arrest her, hits different after this check.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHYYYY YOU GAD DAMN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHYYY
Wait she dies if you take her into custody?
I thought she lies her way out again, I must have misunderstood some dialogue
@@NG_v1 shivers check on the island, maybe somewhere on YT you can find it.
shit I know that would happen if I did arrest her.
@@NG_v1 The Moralist International (Moral-Intern) were after her after she "did a job for them", presumably because after she completed her objective they deemed her a loose end and a potential problem in the future for what she knew.
If you arrest her, she's pretty much an easy target for them.
Just for the sake of info i leave it here: if you have high enough Impossible check Shivers, after you return to the book store to tell to the shopkeeper about the hole in reality in the church, and that is not a curse and an actual hole in reality, you tell her to move to another city for the sake of her and her daughter's safety, the Shivers check says, that it would be pointless for her, for you and the entire Elysium
Sorry, if somebody already said it in the comments
Its basicaly forshadowing the book, that Revachol became independent due to a New Revolution (that is coming after the main story of this game), Harry probably had major role to play in it. Also because Revachol became an independent state, The Coalition nuked it to the ground.
I think this is referencing the book. In it Elysium really does face "The Great Bloodletting", or more specifically an apocalypse that ends in the world being consumed by the pale.
Three playthroughs and never saw this particular branch.... I'm still amazed how much content there still is in this game which I still need to get around to teasing out!
The storm is coming - the storm so powerful it will literally down “Archer” from the sky…
Spoilers for the end of the game
I'm confident the miracle is the Insulindian Phasmid. One of the +'s during that perception check is "heard about the miracle". The discovery of an intelligent creature making its home in Revachol would be world changing.
Also, there's another Shivers check when she talks about where her ID and travel tickets are, that aludes to the Phasmid playing with the bouy
it's interesting that you played this whole time without seeing your own face 😳
fourth playthrough in im just straight up skipping on some stuff
or removing the body
@@likopinina6803 in my "I don't even know the number anymore" playthrough, i rewrited the save just to play with all maximum skills, really fun experience tho, i really felt that Harry went nuts with all those voices in his head :D
@@r99g15 How do you do it? I wish there was some kind of god mode where you could give max stats to everything and see all the interactions
@@emp_izaro you could probably just open up the save with notepad or something. cheat engine would probably work too but Windows does not like that anymore.
In the church if you succeed a Shivers skill check and have high reaction speed you'll find out.
That Revachol is going to be destroyed by a Atomic Bomb in 20 years....
What check do we think Kim made when he looked out to the sea and said trouble was coming? Can he even make Shivers checks? We know he has Authority, assumedly others like Logic and Hand Eye.
Something Beautiful Is Going To Happen 🤫
Never knew this was a thing, neat
How do you get this. I never ever saw the option?
im digging through FAYDE trying to find variables for this but it's not much help. my guess would be that you have to have shivers on a certain level (probably four and up) and try to arrest klaasje but back off in the last moment. let me know if this works if you ever get around to try this
@@likopinina6803 is it worked?
@@толямбокатеман When Klaasje suggests you give her a notice slip, ask what will change in that time. If you don't arrest her after that, the option will be there. You can't do this check if you arrest her or if you haven't seen that dialogue.
god dasha god
Once you learn about the atom bomb Shivers is talking about it really gives context to what exactly is "coming"
Isn’t the atom bomb several years in the future?
I don't know. That's 22 years from now and Shivers says this is a couple of months away.
@@thyetyeyryeretyery Yes, another comment in another shivers video said that in the novel this game is based upon, revachol does become independent, but the coalition drops a bomb 22 years into the future. So the return is different from the bomb.
there's two things coming
Her
and the bomb
"She" is a communist people's revolution in Revachol, again.
the bomb was the response to the shores of revachol, once again, becoming a target-saturated environment for the militant wing of organized capital (The Coalition)
@@OnTheRocks08Isn't "the return" the name of the last quest in the game?
Un jour je serai de retour près de toi
The whole concept of "The Return" seems to be a reference to a concept in Heidegger's philosophy-a salvation of humanity in one fell swoop during it's darkest hour. My memory is foggy on that one, but i can sence the connection. So "The Return" is not just a communist revolution, it's something greater.
Addendum: hell, "The Return" may even be a creation of a whole new political system-not communism, fascism or liberalism. Those of you insane or russian enough to be familiar with A.S. Dugin's work will get what I mean.
@@arktisch36 sounds to me like the resolution of a dialectic.
@@arktisch36 I doubt the people making this game were alluding to an ultranationalist's work with a concept that symbolizes hope.
@@Lurdiakwhy not? They seems eclectic enough. Too leftists?
@@VashdaCrashProbably more that they are Estonian (and seem to be big on some stream of self determination), while Dugin's views hold an undercurrent of Slavic/Russian supremacy which harken back to the darkest periods of imperial and Soviet occupation. Personally I pick up on a lot of influence from Estonian independence in the game's themes, but I'm not an expert on modern Baltic culture, so grain of salt.
It's kinda weird that after reporting her to the Sunday Friend she actually does not get arrested and nothing changes in her storyline. Probably overlooked by the writers.
Oh I didn't know she can be reported to him 👀
@@likopinina6803 Yeah, that's a rare situation because most players deal with him much earlier and he's not available when she admits to being an industrial spy. But the only true outcome is getting the honor point, I used it to get the honor achievement.
@@ZwiekszoneRyzyko I think it's because the sunday friend isn't supposed to be in martinaise so he not gonna do anithing about that.
I don't think A Sunday Friend actually cares. He does his job for the money and almost performs his moralist beliefs to himself.
Who would she get arrested by? You and Kim are the only two Moralintern agents operating in Martinaise.
I have to wonder if The Return means the return of Harry DuBois, detective, or maybe it hints not so much as something returning to the world, but rather, the world returning to the pale.
My assumption is revolution of Revachol against the Moralintern
@@likopinina6803 From context, that seems like the most logical meaning, but the only things that could really return to Revachol are either communism (very unlikely considering there are very few communists left), fascism (bad) or monarchism (bad). Also, The Return is prophesized to be the event that brings forth an independent Revachol, or at least what changes Revachol's standing with regards to the Moralintern, and not the change itself. At the church, you can name the nightclub Revachol West, which is very ominous.
There's an Esprit check during the ending where the police Captain is putting together a list of names, and Harry is a definite yes. I wonder if there's some connection.
i feel like it’s a concept that every person in Revachol have their own interpretation of.
@@likopinina6803 not necessarily communist, iirc the author states its a people's revolution without a specific organized monetary ideology
how do I come to the roof?
dont worry, you'll be directed there as the plot progresses