Bit of a disclaimer, I put a lot of determination into completing this mission & more than one occasion lost my cool under pressure. Forgive my tantrums! No reflection on my enjoyment of the mission, loved every minute!
Kudos on getting this done, lanky! Great gunnery against those Fishcans! I've been stuck on this one since forever, at this point... The Migs maul me every time. I don't know how people manage to score head-on shots against them. Mine always bite off on flares and that's it. I even had a missile that pre-emptively spoofed itself on ghost flares before they would even materialise! Utterly ridiculous stuff. It doesn't help that Paco's about as useful as a dead piece of wood in this fight and that all the "Fox 2" calls are completely canned - he never shoots anything. It takes sooooo long to get to the engagement that after 6 failed attempts, I built my own mission to practice just that engagement (as a 1 v 2). 1 in 4, maybe 1 in 3, I come out on top. For the rest, I succumb to the DCS'isms of massive AI over-performance (There is no way a Fishcan can hang with a Tomcat, yet these either out-rate me or match me on my best rate speeds; when beaten in the 1c, they ditch out into the 2c and regain energy _far_ faster than I do). Gotta get it done within 5-7000lbs of fuel, too, or it gets hairy to get back, I hear. Tough fight.
Wow, I feel even luckier hearing that. I think there were several occasions I could easily have been shot myself. Considering i had trouble getting a lock at all Im very am surprised it hit after hearing your attempts. Then I was only a meter away of getting hit by the other mig firing. And then lost him altogether, could easily been shot while i was chasing paco & ghosts. Yes i think with the bombs on we were definitely at disadvantage. To be honest if i had been shot at that stage it would have cracked me after that 10min orbit. Huge respect for doing it 6 times! Even looking at tac view & my bomb drop I was oblivious to all the tracers. Luck ran out in end tho with fuel
@@lankypilot778 Oh, no! The heartbreak! I am embarrassed to confess, I was called away before I could finish watching the whole video and left my comment at around the time you were doing CAS. I assumed that you had made it through the whole ordeal, since you had uploaded the video, but I see now that you didn't. My bad. It is an amazing and exhilarating mission, but also uniquely frustrating (for me). That Mig encounter is way harder than it needs to be. I hope my stories about it don't put you on the wrong footing for your next attempt(s?) and I wish you not get stuck, like I am! FWIW, I have gotten so much practice at everything up to- and including that fight, that I have picked up a few pointers for you. 1 - the orbiting in formation is much less stressful, if you trim out the aircraft and you abandon the thought of cruise formation. Yes, I know we've been "taught" that form of formation, but the rest of the team doesn't do it on Paco, so why should you? There's plenty of nerves to go around in this mission - make this part easy on yourself. I, myself, like to hang back a little and put Paco in the right quadrant of my forward windshield, between the HUD and the canopy bow. Find a placement, where his wings fill out that space and trim out the aircraft, so that Paco's left wing aligns with the little black warning box on the right of the HUD. Keeping him there, once trimmed out, requires minimal stick deflections from time to time. Your biggest problem will be roll accuracy (at least, that's mine). 2 - now, you know that fuel management is pretty critical to this mission, so there's two things you can do to help yourself in that, mainly: get into the mindset of going max conserve whenever you're not pushing or fighting and drop bags prior to engagement. Don't worry, the tanks will be just empty by the time you get to the "commit" call. This will help with performance in the fight as well as prolong your airtime after it (assuming you survive it!) When you launch off the carrier, you need to stay at or below 300 kts, so that's already half-throttle, but no one says you _need_ to hurry and re-join Paco and the others at the RV point. The push happens quite late and there will be plenty of orbiting for you to do, even if you max-conserve your way to it (and the drop tanks will still be empty by the time you meet the Migs). When you are orbiting for CAS, you don't need more than max-conserve. When you are re-joining Paco afterwards, you don't need more than max-conserve, etc, etc, etc. Also, more rounds you put on target in 1 strafe, the less strafing runs you need to make and the more fuel you will have ;) 3 - for the Fishcans, the tactic I have most success with is going vertical at the merge. Your mileage may vary, but once I pass the trail bandit, I just plug the burners and pull right back on the stick, dropping flares when I feel like the lead bandit might be having a shot (radar warning helps with indicating that; if someone's painting you, they are somewhat nose-on and probably have a solution). Assuming they follow you up, the vertical will drain their energy somewhat and give your Fox 2 an advantage. If you can acquire them and lock them in time, that's mostly an easy kill. Now, the second bandit... that's where the trouble begins... for me, at least =). I hope this all helps. You did good! It's a damned shame you didn't get through on your first attempt! You deserved it, IMO - especially the bombing run and strafing were bang on! Best of luck on the next attempt! I'll be watching for sure!
Much appreciated! Haha yes not quite back to the boat. Yes I agree in hindsight there was plenty of options to conserve fuel better throughout in all those areas you mention. I was so focused on completing the tasks it took me a while to even look at the fuel gauge! think mainly you just really need to take those migs out quick smart, the longer that dogfight went on cost me dearly. I remember getting marked down for taking too long in the RAG so it was drilled in early to us. Yes after my first fox 2 shot i pulled off high to try drop back in on them when merging, although probably could of gone more vertical since i almost got tagged there. Thanks again!
@@lankypilot778 Dispatching them early (and without over-g'ing the jet) was a nightmare for me. Easily the most challenging part of the RAG, I found. I know exactly what you mean with the fuel management. On my first attempt, I wasn't nearly as careful with it as I have become since. I wasn't reckless with it, but I wasn't conservative, either. I'm currently reading the Raven One series by Kevin Miller (which everybody in our community recommends - for good reason) and one thing that stands out to me is just how mindful real pilots are of their fuel. It's their life-line; secondary only to bogeys. With all respect to Reflected and what he wants to achieve with the design of this mission, I feel like there should be either an option to RV with a tanker at some point after the fight or after CAS, before making it back to Mother, _or_ there should be an F10 option for "Sorry, but I'm bingo - RTB". That's what happens in real life, if you get short on gas. I would also say making the CAS tasking optional would be an appropriate move.
@@riman8493 Yeah I would have loved one of those S3's to have been held back for tanking at the 80 mile mark on return! But it's true in real life, I am probably the worst when it comes to fuel management & working out what i need each flight. I couldn't tell you what any of the planes require for what distances.
Bit of a disclaimer, I put a lot of determination into completing this mission & more than one occasion lost my cool under pressure. Forgive my tantrums!
No reflection on my enjoyment of the mission, loved every minute!
Kudos on getting this done, lanky! Great gunnery against those Fishcans! I've been stuck on this one since forever, at this point... The Migs maul me every time. I don't know how people manage to score head-on shots against them. Mine always bite off on flares and that's it. I even had a missile that pre-emptively spoofed itself on ghost flares before they would even materialise! Utterly ridiculous stuff. It doesn't help that Paco's about as useful as a dead piece of wood in this fight and that all the "Fox 2" calls are completely canned - he never shoots anything.
It takes sooooo long to get to the engagement that after 6 failed attempts, I built my own mission to practice just that engagement (as a 1 v 2). 1 in 4, maybe 1 in 3, I come out on top. For the rest, I succumb to the DCS'isms of massive AI over-performance (There is no way a Fishcan can hang with a Tomcat, yet these either out-rate me or match me on my best rate speeds; when beaten in the 1c, they ditch out into the 2c and regain energy _far_ faster than I do). Gotta get it done within 5-7000lbs of fuel, too, or it gets hairy to get back, I hear.
Tough fight.
Wow, I feel even luckier hearing that. I think there were several occasions I could easily have been shot myself. Considering i had trouble getting a lock at all Im very am surprised it hit after hearing your attempts. Then I was only a meter away of getting hit by the other mig firing. And then lost him altogether, could easily been shot while i was chasing paco & ghosts.
Yes i think with the bombs on we were definitely at disadvantage. To be honest if i had been shot at that stage it would have cracked me after that 10min orbit. Huge respect for doing it 6 times! Even looking at tac view & my bomb drop I was oblivious to all the tracers. Luck ran out in end tho with fuel
@@lankypilot778 Oh, no! The heartbreak!
I am embarrassed to confess, I was called away before I could finish watching the whole video and left my comment at around the time you were doing CAS. I assumed that you had made it through the whole ordeal, since you had uploaded the video, but I see now that you didn't.
My bad.
It is an amazing and exhilarating mission, but also uniquely frustrating (for me). That Mig encounter is way harder than it needs to be. I hope my stories about it don't put you on the wrong footing for your next attempt(s?) and I wish you not get stuck, like I am!
FWIW, I have gotten so much practice at everything up to- and including that fight, that I have picked up a few pointers for you.
1 - the orbiting in formation is much less stressful, if you trim out the aircraft and you abandon the thought of cruise formation. Yes, I know we've been "taught" that form of formation, but the rest of the team doesn't do it on Paco, so why should you? There's plenty of nerves to go around in this mission - make this part easy on yourself. I, myself, like to hang back a little and put Paco in the right quadrant of my forward windshield, between the HUD and the canopy bow. Find a placement, where his wings fill out that space and trim out the aircraft, so that Paco's left wing aligns with the little black warning box on the right of the HUD. Keeping him there, once trimmed out, requires minimal stick deflections from time to time. Your biggest problem will be roll accuracy (at least, that's mine).
2 - now, you know that fuel management is pretty critical to this mission, so there's two things you can do to help yourself in that, mainly: get into the mindset of going max conserve whenever you're not pushing or fighting and drop bags prior to engagement. Don't worry, the tanks will be just empty by the time you get to the "commit" call. This will help with performance in the fight as well as prolong your airtime after it (assuming you survive it!)
When you launch off the carrier, you need to stay at or below 300 kts, so that's already half-throttle, but no one says you _need_ to hurry and re-join Paco and the others at the RV point. The push happens quite late and there will be plenty of orbiting for you to do, even if you max-conserve your way to it (and the drop tanks will still be empty by the time you meet the Migs).
When you are orbiting for CAS, you don't need more than max-conserve. When you are re-joining Paco afterwards, you don't need more than max-conserve, etc, etc, etc.
Also, more rounds you put on target in 1 strafe, the less strafing runs you need to make and the more fuel you will have ;)
3 - for the Fishcans, the tactic I have most success with is going vertical at the merge. Your mileage may vary, but once I pass the trail bandit, I just plug the burners and pull right back on the stick, dropping flares when I feel like the lead bandit might be having a shot (radar warning helps with indicating that; if someone's painting you, they are somewhat nose-on and probably have a solution). Assuming they follow you up, the vertical will drain their energy somewhat and give your Fox 2 an advantage. If you can acquire them and lock them in time, that's mostly an easy kill.
Now, the second bandit... that's where the trouble begins... for me, at least =).
I hope this all helps. You did good! It's a damned shame you didn't get through on your first attempt! You deserved it, IMO - especially the bombing run and strafing were bang on!
Best of luck on the next attempt! I'll be watching for sure!
Much appreciated! Haha yes not quite back to the boat. Yes I agree in hindsight there was plenty of options to conserve fuel better throughout in all those areas you mention. I was so focused on completing the tasks it took me a while to even look at the fuel gauge! think mainly you just really need to take those migs out quick smart, the longer that dogfight went on cost me dearly. I remember getting marked down for taking too long in the RAG so it was drilled in early to us. Yes after my first fox 2 shot i pulled off high to try drop back in on them when merging, although probably could of gone more vertical since i almost got tagged there.
Thanks again!
@@lankypilot778 Dispatching them early (and without over-g'ing the jet) was a nightmare for me. Easily the most challenging part of the RAG, I found.
I know exactly what you mean with the fuel management. On my first attempt, I wasn't nearly as careful with it as I have become since. I wasn't reckless with it, but I wasn't conservative, either. I'm currently reading the Raven One series by Kevin Miller (which everybody in our community recommends - for good reason) and one thing that stands out to me is just how mindful real pilots are of their fuel. It's their life-line; secondary only to bogeys.
With all respect to Reflected and what he wants to achieve with the design of this mission, I feel like there should be either an option to RV with a tanker at some point after the fight or after CAS, before making it back to Mother, _or_ there should be an F10 option for "Sorry, but I'm bingo - RTB". That's what happens in real life, if you get short on gas. I would also say making the CAS tasking optional would be an appropriate move.
@@riman8493 Yeah I would have loved one of those S3's to have been held back for tanking at the 80 mile mark on return! But it's true in real life, I am probably the worst when it comes to fuel management & working out what i need each flight. I couldn't tell you what any of the planes require for what distances.
Hey, even Maverick had to eject. Don't feel bad.
Haha thanks. I'm sure Chig won't let me forget it..
Better hit a tanker.