Nope missed the point big time. Doublethink is cognitive dissonance. Like how the dystopian state in Orwell’s 1984 had the people believing that “freedom is slavery, war is peace, ignorance is strength”. It involves believing both sides of a logical contradiction without recognizing that logical contradiction.
double think is knowing that something is untrue forgetting that it is untrue while knowing that it is true and forgetting that it is true, all while forgetting the act of forgetting
Tbh as others have said these examples miss the very important point of the term, at least in Orwell's case. It's not just being able to pick whatever is convenient at the time. It's about not even acknowledging the contradiction. It represents complete subservience, even in the mind itself, to some political cause. It's the ability to believe something that cannot possibly be true, because someone else told you to. It is not just some trick people use to play golf. It is very dangerous.
What is it called when you do aknowledge the contradiction. I do believe in free will and do not at the same time. From a scientific standpoint I don't believe in free will, as it doesn't make sense in a causal chain. I do believe, because free will is needed to have a sense of purpose and feel incentivized to put in effort. Not believing in free will can also be beneficial because it allows you to be more epathetic, understanding, and less angry all the time. There is none to be angry at when you realize there are no real choosers or doers. I don't believe in justice, but I believe in correction, and confinement for the safety of others.
I see your thought process, but it's not a great example. At least for now, debates over free will are metaphysics. Human consciousness is far too complicated for our current factual understanding. A contradiction in your own beliefs here-- whether you acknowledge it or not-- results from the limitations of human perception and is not really doublethink as Orwell conceived of it. Orwell's conception of doublethink deals with more mundane issues, usually involving politics or policy. A good example from 1984 is the clear and rigid class hierarchy of Oceania juxtapositioned with the fact that the Party calls itself "socialist," identifying with an economic philosophy which above all else seeks to abolish social stratification. Citizens of Oceania largely seem to accept the hierarchy of Inner Party, Outer Party, and Proletariat as good and necessary, and yet believe in a history where the Party heroically cast down such hierarchy and liberated the proletariat. It calls back to Animal Farm's famous quote: "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others." In actual history, this kind of self-deception happens all the time and it often forms the basis of some of the worst crimes against humanity-- largely because it allows a government to do transparently evil things and still be treated as heroic by its people. Stalin was considered a great liberator by many Soviet citizens, even though it was abundantly clear that he brutally suppressed all political and economic activism within his borders. The situation in Nazi Germany was not much different-- civil liberties essentially did not exist even for ethnic Germans, soldiers were dying by the million, and political dissidents and ethnic minorities were being forced into ghettos, camps, and mass graves, and yet many citizens believed that Hitler was a great savior and was leading them to a "thousand year Reich." Americans are unfortunately not immune to this kind of self-deception, either in history or in present day. Thomas Jefferson wrote about how "All men are created equal" while owning chattel slaves. He and his contempoaries went on to write and adopt a Constitution which granted the right to vote only to white land owners, and gave slave owners *extra votes*-- three for every five slaves they owned. This state of affairs continued for close to a century, and did not change until a bloody civil war tore the country apart.
"I love animals (Veganism)" + "I eat animals (Carnism)" = Doublethink..... "As long as there are slaughter houses there will be battlefields." - Tolstoy
That is correct. I'm vegan. I've evolved to non-violence. I'm trying to pull others out of the Matrix that is carnism. "“The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” - George Bernard Shaw
Self defense or survival situation may call for violence... Other than that, there is no excuse. Take a 22 day vegan challenge... social psychology says it takes 2-3 weeks to break a habit. bit.ly/CvCh22
Perhaps a cousin to this interpretation of doublethink is Stephen Hawking's idea of model dependent reality. In that case both models are known consciously, known to conflict but each has it proven area of applicability. Another model of doublethink that I am particularly interested in is where the two model contradict each other blatantly but this, apparently, is not realized by the speaker.
I’ve never heard of this “double think” Is this like believing God is sovereign and yet, believing you make your own choices and are therefore responsible for your own life? And the idea of control is a mirage to be let go of in the first place? I don’t know if I’m explaining this well. I’m thinking out loud.
Yes! In a way! Essentially this is saying that we hold the ability to hold contradictory thoughts in our heads and then harness the power of whatever is relevant at that time. So, YES! But it is also super subconscious so it is important to stay on top of our thoughts. -Charlie & Team Optimize
Turns out that I've been thinking doubly all the time. Now not really sure if it is good or bad. I kinda sorta accept it as it helps me. Duh, doublethink again. But surely, doublethink seems the most powerful weapon and at the same time an ally to the world.
Basically the mind is made to be ultra sensitive to everything having to go with OR against you or someone or something.... Doublethink happens when you can see how both extremes could potentially be true. But not that both are true at once. When there is a conflict then it may be something like cognitive dissonance
Brian in one of your podcasts this week you mentioned one your favorite books ever or of all time - I think it was "The Power of Focused Attention" ? please confirm title and author - appreciate your work, time and say hello to your family!
"I love animals (Veganism)" + "I eat animals (Carnism)" = Doublethink..... "As long as there are slaughter houses there will be battlefields." - Tolstoy
I'm a honest student of you. I have gone through all your classes and interviews. I need good books on the skill acquisition . will be help me to find it out. I m a surgeon. so to speed up my skill I need your help . Thank u.
+konckok norboo Norboo These two come to mind immediately: brianjohnson.me/philosophers-notes/the-little-book-of-talent/ + brianjohnson.me/philosophers-notes/black-box-thinking/ + brianjohnson.me/philosophersnotes-tag/learning/ + brianjohnson.me/philosophersnotes-tag/10000-hours/
A better example of doublethink would be a common Christian practice (before creationism reared its ugly head anyway) of believing in Adam and Eve and Original Sin on Sunday, but believing in Natural Selection and evolution every other day.
Hypocrites can acknowledge the contradiction. Also, hypocrisy is more a discrepancy between ones actions and their words. 'do as I say, not as I do' Doublethink is holding two beliefs that contradict each other while being unable to acknowledge the contradiction. The video slightly misrepresents the concept, as it isn't necessarily mean holding two beliefs and switching between either one when convenient. Doublethink is '2+2=5' The citizens of Airstrip 1 are indoctrinated by the party to the point their inherent language is so limited that thoughts themselves become limited due to that lack of language. Language evolution and evaluation is surpressed to the extent that the idea of a contradiction between two beliefs is literally unthinkable. The concept of contradiction is is devoid in the minds of Oceanias citizens. At one point Oceania has always been at war with Eurasia. Halfway through the novel, it is announced Oceania are at war with eastasia, and its citizens now believe as strongly that they have always been at war with eastasia and aligned with Eurasia. That's Doublethink.
Nope missed the point big time. Doublethink is cognitive dissonance. Like how the dystopian state in Orwell’s 1984 had the people believing that “freedom is slavery, war is peace, ignorance is strength”. It involves believing both sides of a logical contradiction without recognizing that logical contradiction.
Yes.
Isn't he describing blackwhite?
double think is knowing that something is untrue forgetting that it is untrue while knowing that it is true and forgetting that it is true, all while forgetting the act of forgetting
Tbh as others have said these examples miss the very important point of the term, at least in Orwell's case.
It's not just being able to pick whatever is convenient at the time. It's about not even acknowledging the contradiction.
It represents complete subservience, even in the mind itself, to some political cause. It's the ability to believe something that cannot possibly be true, because someone else told you to.
It is not just some trick people use to play golf. It is very dangerous.
What is it called when you do aknowledge the contradiction. I do believe in free will and do not at the same time. From a scientific standpoint I don't believe in free will, as it doesn't make sense in a causal chain. I do believe, because free will is needed to have a sense of purpose and feel incentivized to put in effort. Not believing in free will can also be beneficial because it allows you to be more epathetic, understanding, and less angry all the time. There is none to be angry at when you realize there are no real choosers or doers. I don't believe in justice, but I believe in correction, and confinement for the safety of others.
I see your thought process, but it's not a great example. At least for now, debates over free will are metaphysics. Human consciousness is far too complicated for our current factual understanding. A contradiction in your own beliefs here-- whether you acknowledge it or not-- results from the limitations of human perception and is not really doublethink as Orwell conceived of it.
Orwell's conception of doublethink deals with more mundane issues, usually involving politics or policy. A good example from 1984 is the clear and rigid class hierarchy of Oceania juxtapositioned with the fact that the Party calls itself "socialist," identifying with an economic philosophy which above all else seeks to abolish social stratification. Citizens of Oceania largely seem to accept the hierarchy of Inner Party, Outer Party, and Proletariat as good and necessary, and yet believe in a history where the Party heroically cast down such hierarchy and liberated the proletariat. It calls back to Animal Farm's famous quote: "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."
In actual history, this kind of self-deception happens all the time and it often forms the basis of some of the worst crimes against humanity-- largely because it allows a government to do transparently evil things and still be treated as heroic by its people. Stalin was considered a great liberator by many Soviet citizens, even though it was abundantly clear that he brutally suppressed all political and economic activism within his borders. The situation in Nazi Germany was not much different-- civil liberties essentially did not exist even for ethnic Germans, soldiers were dying by the million, and political dissidents and ethnic minorities were being forced into ghettos, camps, and mass graves, and yet many citizens believed that Hitler was a great savior and was leading them to a "thousand year Reich."
Americans are unfortunately not immune to this kind of self-deception, either in history or in present day. Thomas Jefferson wrote about how "All men are created equal" while owning chattel slaves. He and his contempoaries went on to write and adopt a Constitution which granted the right to vote only to white land owners, and gave slave owners *extra votes*-- three for every five slaves they owned. This state of affairs continued for close to a century, and did not change until a bloody civil war tore the country apart.
I don't know if the golf example is quite doublethink
MG I’m an athlete and that is pretty much exactly how it works in most sports. It is unconcious, however. We don’t think about it, it just happens.
The golf thing sounds more like 2 thoughts after another
“Ok i need to do this to win” followed by “yeah i can totally pull this off”
Double think is scary when people believe horrible lies just because it's convenient for them.
"I love animals (Veganism)" + "I eat animals (Carnism)" = Doublethink..... "As long as there are slaughter houses there will be battlefields." - Tolstoy
Ed Lon once youre aware, and not acting in truth, youve moved to the cognitive dissonance stage
That is correct. I'm vegan. I've evolved to non-violence. I'm trying to pull others out of the Matrix that is carnism. "“The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” - George Bernard Shaw
Self defense or survival situation may call for violence... Other than that, there is no excuse. Take a 22 day vegan challenge... social psychology says it takes 2-3 weeks to break a habit. bit.ly/CvCh22
Was good till the second half of the video which was just an ad
It's like having free in the name of your organization yet being totally committed to enslavement.
Perhaps a cousin to this interpretation of doublethink is Stephen Hawking's idea of model dependent reality. In that case both models are known consciously, known to conflict but each has it proven area of applicability. Another model of doublethink that I am particularly interested in is where the two model contradict each other blatantly but this, apparently, is not realized by the speaker.
Thanks chess is a good example of doublethink
Nice one! I agree!
Zak | Team Optimize
I’ve never heard of this “double think”
Is this like believing God is sovereign and yet, believing you make your own choices and are therefore responsible for your own life? And the idea of control is a mirage to be let go of in the first place?
I don’t know if I’m explaining this well. I’m thinking out loud.
Yes! In a way! Essentially this is saying that we hold the ability to hold contradictory thoughts in our heads and then harness the power of whatever is relevant at that time. So, YES! But it is also super subconscious so it is important to stay on top of our thoughts. -Charlie & Team Optimize
Turns out that I've been thinking doubly all the time. Now not really sure if it is good or bad. I kinda sorta accept it as it helps me. Duh, doublethink again.
But surely, doublethink seems the most powerful weapon and at the same time an ally to the world.
Interesting! - Zak | Team Optimize
GREAT CONTENT! love your videos and looking forward to getting a membership
+harold isaacs Awesome and look forward to rockin it in 2016, Harold!! :)
Great video breaking down patriarchal double-think
Thanks, Cynthia! -Charlie & Team Optimize
Basically the mind is made to be ultra sensitive to everything having to go with OR against you or someone or something....
Doublethink happens when you can see how both extremes could potentially be true. But not that both are true at once.
When there is a conflict then it may be something like cognitive dissonance
Thanks for watching. Have a great day! 😀 - Team Heroic
Enjoy a free trial of the Heroic app, TODAY! www.heroic.us
Golf example is not doublethink (that's fast and slow thinking by khaneman) and this is a totally bastardized view of taleb point in antifragile.
The universe works so weird. I'm in high school and am currently reading the book 1984 and is literally right next to me. Good vid as always :)
+Fridz Frezar haha and awesome!!! :)
Brian in one of your podcasts this week you mentioned one your favorite books ever or of all time - I think it was "The Power of Focused Attention" ? please confirm title and author - appreciate your work, time and say hello to your family!
+Khalil Aleker HI Khalil!! Hmmmmmmm... D'oh! I'm not sure what I referenced! :0 You remember which episode?!
+Brian Johnson got it!!! You said one of your fav books ever "The Power of Full Engagement" - Tony Schwrtz" ;) :) thanks you
Khalil Aleker Ah! Awesome!! :) brianjohnson.me/philosophers-notes/the-power-of-full-engagement/
You my super HERO!
Khalil Aleker :)
"I love animals (Veganism)" + "I eat animals (Carnism)" = Doublethink..... "As long as there are slaughter houses there will be battlefields." - Tolstoy
I'm a honest student of you. I have gone through all your classes and interviews. I need good books on the skill acquisition . will be help me to find it out. I m a surgeon. so to speed up my skill I need your help . Thank u.
+konckok norboo Norboo These two come to mind immediately: brianjohnson.me/philosophers-notes/the-little-book-of-talent/ + brianjohnson.me/philosophers-notes/black-box-thinking/ + brianjohnson.me/philosophersnotes-tag/learning/ + brianjohnson.me/philosophersnotes-tag/10000-hours/
Thoughts acceleration
A better example of doublethink would be a common Christian practice (before creationism reared its ugly head anyway) of believing in Adam and Eve and Original Sin on Sunday, but believing in Natural Selection and evolution every other day.
Thanks for sharing! -Zak | Team Optimize
close but no cigar.
Thank for sharing!
What is the difference between this and hypocrisy??
Hypocrites can acknowledge the contradiction.
Also, hypocrisy is more a discrepancy between ones actions and their words. 'do as I say, not as I do'
Doublethink is holding two beliefs that contradict each other while being unable to acknowledge the contradiction. The video slightly misrepresents the concept, as it isn't necessarily mean holding two beliefs and switching between either one when convenient.
Doublethink is '2+2=5'
The citizens of Airstrip 1 are indoctrinated by the party to the point their inherent language is so limited that thoughts themselves become limited due to that lack of language.
Language evolution and evaluation is surpressed to the extent that the idea of a contradiction between two beliefs is literally unthinkable. The concept of contradiction is is devoid in the minds of Oceanias citizens.
At one point Oceania has always been at war with Eurasia. Halfway through the novel, it is announced Oceania are at war with eastasia, and its citizens now believe as strongly that they have always been at war with eastasia and aligned with Eurasia. That's Doublethink.
Great explanation. U save me a lot of time. Exams on this tomorrow :s
Like thinking you can find a good wife out of the women that aren't married on a dating app. They are on the app for a reason...
Thats one way to apply it!
Zak | Team Optimize
ok this is epic. that was definitely a missing piece of my puzzle. thanks master Brian :)
+Gergely Sárfi Right on, Gergely!!! :)
This guy is totally wrong
Just like archo-capitalism 😂