@@postmodernrecycler We here in Europe sometimes criticese the USA for just having a "stereo" system, but after all, the music in "5.1" sounds the same ...
I’m a Republican and a Conservative, yet I was present for the 100th anniversary of Stravinsky’s “Le sacre” on May 29, 2013 at Théâtre des Champs-Elysées in Paris with my son. I can’t live without the music of Berg, Ravel, Debussy, Prokofiev and Stravinsky so I’m a weird eclectic surprise. But in a macro sense, you’re right. I think my political brethren AS A WHOLE probably wouldn’t know good music if it hit them square in the pickup truck.
To my fellow conservative Sheffield: I don't see how the general lack of appreciation for classical music reflects in ANY negative way on the conservative movement, other than from our own limited, elitist viewpoint. What percentage (miniscule) of the American public, regardless of political affiliation, cares about Ives or Cowell? And what's the point of castigated anyone over what is clearly an issue of personal taste? On that topic, let's not forget the VAST amount of $ support since the late 19th-century from conservative, free-market businesses and their foundations that have generously funded the Arts (orchestras, opera companies, concert halls) in addition to educational, philanthropic and health organizations, hospitals, museums...etc. SO WHAT if they don't appreciate Charles Ives? They've largely made it possible for his music to survive in performance. [The two Opera companies in Chicago that I directed were almost entirely dependent on the generosity of CONSERVATIVE businessmen for survival; these guys may not have appreciated Cowell, Piston, etc..but they cared IMMENSELY that the performing arts in America continue]. So be proud of your conservatism. LR
@@michaelsheldon8407 Very true; so what's the point in maligning the vast majority of the country? We all have the free will to listen to what we please.
We were so lucky during the Schwarz era to have a conductor who explored so much mid-century American rep with the Seattle Symphony. All orchestras should so balance their programs.
As a conservative and Christian, my comment is, well said. This is one reason I subscribe to Classics Today: good criticism on a foundation of common sense.
I think what's missing about our understanding of culture is that it is at its best when it is shared - shared openheartedly and with an attitude of welcoming. Maybe, after all, that is what culture is - the cultivation of sharing. Culture lives in its sharing, but dies when used as a weapon of power or an instrument of exclusivity, whether on the left or right. What I find heartening about your approach is that yours is a model of open-hearted sharing. Your humor and passion break through the snobbery and shibboleths of the classical music world. You make music fun again and for that we thank you!
Yes, you need to embrace all culture, not built walls and fences and exclude culture because it doesn't fit your narrow definition of art. Culture is the sharing of ideas from one person from another, from one group to another, and all culture should be encouraged and explored.
I really think it’s just a symptom of the drastic decline in classical music’s market share since the 1960s. As with the rest of Americans, very few politicians (D) or (R) listen to classical music. Democratic politicians do have some supporters who are NPR listeners, but not nearly enough to make promotion of the arts a serious priority. Most Republican elected officials staunchly oppose any public funding for the arts whatsoever; they view classical and jazz as the cultural province of an out-of-touch blue state liberal elite. It is what it is and isn’t like to change.
I went from seeing acres of classical LP's in the late 60's in record and instrument stores, even the May Co. had a large classical selection. About a decade and half later, not much besides The Three Tenors, (Zzzzz......)Baroque Trumpet Concertos, Maybe the New World Symphony. But there was always Tower Records, in their Classical Annex on the fabled Sunset Boulevard in Hollywood, I felt like Pinocchio on Pleasure Island.
Valid point! I very much doubt either side of the polarized aisle can claim a share of classical music listeners above 10%, and that's a liberal guesstimate!
This is absolutely brilliant, Dave. Many thanks. Each of the sides - and they are both equally polarised - deserves a good bashing on various grounds. We have this in the UK: nobody at the moment does anything other than encourage further polarisation. Nobody is centreist any more. And indeed each has good ideas - but, as you say, the motivations are all wrong. The arts, which are purist, can & do exist anywhere on the spectrum, but, I think, are more properly aware of where they are and why.
Same here in Austria: The conservatives have no interest in culture at all; the far right, which becoms stronger (first place in Austria after the last elections) has an image of culture which has nothing to do with sophisticated art, rather it means schlager music. And on the other side, the left changes words in classic literature to make it political correct, omits the antisemitic paragraphs from an "complete" edition of Highsmith' letters (to protect a lesbian woman from dark shadows) and starts a discussion, which percussion instruments should be forbidden, because they are "cultural appropriation". Standing in the midst between both sides, one get's angry comments and shitstorms from both.
You'd think that Classical fans would lean "Conservative" due the fact we focus on "Conserving" repertoire, maintaining appreciation of the "Classics" etc. - BUT that is simply not the case, we are as varied a bunch as any! Many left wing and right wing Classical fans. Barring the extremes - I think it's wonderful that we can all unite in our love of this music! We don't NEED to discuss politics - it really doesn't matter as much as discussing music does. Discussing politics NEVER leads to anyone changing their mind - it just leads to making enemies of friends. Discussing Classical music on the other hand? well that does the opposite - it invites us to be friends with would-be enemies. Let's unite over our love of Beethoven, Bach, Mahler, Chopin. Tchaikovsky. It may sound incredibly NAIVE and preposterous to claim "music is more important than politics" - but in our day to day lives - it really IS! it keeps us going, it's our lifeblood. If someone loves Classical music - we can be friends! their politics simply don't matter to me.
I'm so sick of both extremes. They're dangerous, tired and boring and lack any kind of pure creativity or appreciation for anything that makes a balanced sense. Art, cinema, sports, music and culture in general are being suffocated by these extreme political lefts and rights. Let it all breathe. Stop forcing things to be this way or that way and with all the agenda labelings.
Great talk Dave, thanks! I am not American, but I have a great respect for American music and literature which I enjoy a lot and it is sad to see what is going on... All the best, keep the good fight!
Well said although I’m afraid I escape from all this madness with music ! A little shout out for England! I’m no great patriot but I love it here and the only tubes I’m going down are the ones that get me to another part of town! Keep up with the music enjoy your passion
This is exhausting to think about but it needed to be said. Thank you. I don’t even like Piston or Ives but I understand that they are part of the “constellation.” They are on the shelf of things I might end up enjoying someday, and I certainly don’t think less of people who enjoy that stuff.
The video about Ives that David that was the subject of a recent video of David, "Dvorak's Prophecy: Charles Ives' America" can be seen for free on TH-cam. My wife is a casual consumer of classical music who didn't get Ives, but now his music really clicks with her thanks to this excellent documentary, and I recommend it to you as an excellent introduction to his music.
Haven't returned to Ives in a long time, semi-enjoyed some stuff but not much interest. Had no interest in Piston at all, had to slog through his Harmony testbook in college. But a while ago got his The Incredible Flutist, not as tiresome as I thought it would be. Got the CD really for the Gottschalk-Kay Cakewalk ballet that was up first.
I fell in love with classical music at age six after my mother took me to Carnegie Hall to hear a concert that included La Mer. I was thunderstruck. I've been obsessed with it ever since. To whatever extent your "bitchfest" hits the nail on the head, no matter - I will keep loving classical music and listening, studying and writing more of it in every spare moment until I bite the dust - even if no one else gives a damn about it - and certainly without expecting any politicians to give the best of our culture and its cultural institutions a moment's thought.
Very interesting, especially your ruminations on Ives. I am not American so I am curious about this: who would a music-loving American consider their most famous composer? Probably not Ives! Gershwin?
@@Bachback How interesting, thanks. I'd say Copland, Barber, Bernstein, Glass and Adams are the US composers I listen to most often. Not a huge fan of Gershwin, but I understand why he is so popular.
I've been terribly disappointed that the Philadelphia Orchestra Florence Price series has apparently retreated from physical product to streaming. I was hoping for at least three cd's worth. It's also frustrating that the Met under Gelb gives us the latest in what used to be called CNN opera, woke works which check the correct boxes but of variable merit while completely ignoring some very fine American works of the past century from Taylor and Hanson to Floyd, Moore, Beeson, Pasatieri, Bolcom or Paulus. I'd much rather have Barber's Antony and Cleopatra again than Adams'.
Wow, this was quite something to listen to, for better and for worse! I had a struggle 3/4 thru to continue or abandon🤔but since I REALLY enjoy your music musings, and respect your recommendations, I held on to the end, and felt you somehow brought it together🧡thank you, I think 🤔😁💜
My latest on the listening list are Ives' Symphony #3 (which is lovely, needs repeated listening to fully savour the work) and Handel's Judas Maccabeus (the full 3-hour oratorio). Thanks for bringing up Ives again, the Robert Browning Ouverture is a tough nut to crack.
Dave, I apologise for my lack of faith. I clicked on this with trepidation, convinced you were going to give a partisan political lecture. I should have known better! Re. your comments on US music, I can tell you, as an Australian who grew up in the shadow of the British Empire (manifested here by the dominance of "Gramophone"" and the "Penguin Guides") that your channel has opened my ears to great playing by orchestras I had never heard of. Unfortunately that means I need to spend more money, but that's OK. Thank you, for fighting the good fight, and letting the rest of us learn from you.
Some of the same thing happens with literature. Very few people read hard books and, of course, words are easier to politicize than notes. But I believe music suffers more, mostly because people don't have much experience listening to anything but pop. Furthermore, when they decide they might be missing something, they want Genuine Masterpieces. There's no sense of real exploration, even though streaming services provide an affordable way to do it. To me, you've got to be willing to "waste your time" to discover your tastes.
Couldn't agree more. Support any and all of those things that make American culture so rich and unique. If someone's offended by this light criticism, remember that you're less than 1/100000000 of the votes cast, so don't make that you're identity. Stop worrying about the left/right nonsense and just enjoy the culture.
I wish the right was doing "nothing" regarding culture. They are busy showing up at town hall and school board meetings, attempting to have some of the best American novels banned from our schools and public libraries. Some of these banned books include: To Kill a Mockingbird, The Great Gatsby, The Prince of Tides, The Catcher in the Rye, Schindler's List and, if you can believe it, the Lord of the Rings. While they have been ignoring music, at the moment, I'm almost certain it's somewhere on their list. Stay tuned.
The conservatives intellectuals and artists think they are safe, but you know the populist right will turn on them too soon enough. It’s the impossible for a movement this virulently anti-intellectual to ever appreciate the arts.
Just because musical culture in America is no longer classical, does not mean there is none. Rock and roll, jazz, blues, bluegrass, and country are all birthed here. The biggest musical sensation in the world is Taylor Swift. You can argue that it is crappy culture and most of us might agree. It’s a sad statement that the Lyric Opera in Baltimore is gone. That orchestras scramble for funding. That small community orchestras have disappeared. But that doesn’t mean there is no musical culture. Our biggest problem in classical music, IMO, is lack of exposure. If 6th graders all took a class trip to see Peter and the Wolf or something similar we’d generate the interest in the coming generations.
Actually, I think there's far more music available than the interest in it readily supports. I have no issue with organizations going bust. Not everyone can or will participate, but there should be some recognition of the importance of American musical culture and support for it, whether public or private. I'm actually pretty conservative when it comes to public funding of the arts, but that's a tricky question and it depends on how it's done.
Since the rise of online political obsession I've seen art/culture criticism go steeply downhill. People who are passionate (to use a kind word) about their political affiliation only seem to care about art to the extent that it's propaganda for their agendas. They have no concept of aesthetics or formalism or the difference between representation Vs expression. A pox on both their houses.
I guess I agree with some of this...if when we say 'culture' we mean just classical music. I know this is a classical music vlog, but I'd say that, for the most part, Americal cultural products still retain a hold over most of the rest of the world...if you consider popular music (Taylor Swift just completed a multi-billion dollar world tour. For me that's totally blech, but I don't think you can say it's not culture). Classical music is kind of its own thing because by and large, right or left, it is pretty much ignored by the mainstream media. I'm thinking here, for instance, about how pretty much every major news organization has ditched any semblance of arts reporting. Let's face it, it's just not considered 'relevant' (ghastly word). I'm not sure how 'wokeness' comes into this. OK, the left may have some wacky ideas. I can't stand the concept of 'cultural appropriation'. While I do understand that often communities who created a particular cultural 'product' failed to see the financial rewards that accrued to white people when they 'appropriated' it...I'm thinking here mainly of jazz and blues, but by and large it's an intellectually empty concept. Every culture has influenced every other culture throughout history. Should we expect the Italians to return the concept of pasta to the Chinese? Where I really part company with you is in your glib assertion that both sides are 'the same'. Sorry, no. The intentions of today's 'right wing' in the US are openly sinister. They are committed to taking rights away from people and to threatening any opposition into silence. A few arts organizations creating a DEA program doesn't really compare, in my opinion. At least with the sometimes over-zealous left, arts would continue to be funded. With the right in power, you can kiss all of that goodbye. Good discussion.
Well, of course I'm talking about classical music, and you are right when you consider "culture" in the wider sense. As for the right's sinister intentions, I'm not entirely on board with that sentiment, however much I may disagree with the policies of one particular branch of it. I think we are living in a time when there are many unhappy people who want to see things shaken up. I can't even begin to see what that will mean in the long term. And I do feel that the further you go to either extreme, the closer both right and left get in their intolerance and closed-mindedness. That I know for a fact.
Your post has me thinking. Perhaps we should distinguish between the cultural left/right and the political left/right. The cultural left--the woke--have been helpful stimulating intetest in the perhaps unjustly ignored works of female and nin-white composers and insisting upon expanding opportunities for minority musicians. The extreme among the cultural left have denigrated the established canon inappropriately. The cultural right has been mostly silent about music. Their focus on the arts seems to center around censorship of literature, theater, and visual arts. To the extent music comes up in politics, the principal issue is government funding. To the extent American politicians have supported government funding of the arts, they have come from the more statist element of the left; in the States, the right has tended to support small government and limited funding. You set out the basis for a program to unite all 4 sectors: The cultural left and right should all support promulgation of American repertoire and opportunity for American talent. Both the political left and right should support some government financing to build community through the arts, increase the stature and prestige of American music, and expand opportunities for American talent.
It’s a shame in general that America doesn’t promote and perform our own composers such as Copland, Harris, Hanson, Ives, Barber, ect. But yet again there is still a big European influence on American orchestras. I don’t necessarily think it’s a political problem, I just think it’s a anti-american bias because American composers really didn’t come into the scene of classical until the 1890’s.
This is brilliant, Dave!! Although I tend to lean conservative, I’m pretty much centrist. I absolutely agree with your take on the bullshit on both sides.
Most people I meet whether on the right or the left are basically interested in some form of Rock music and that's about it. I rarely meet people on the Left who have interest in Classical, but I do know a few on the Right who appreciate Classical music.
Furtwängler's 1942 live recording of Beethoven's 9th, for example, already serves to illustrate the consequences of melding artistic and political ambitions, does it not? Not sure how many of today's orchestral conductors yearn for an asterisk such as that. Moreover, it seems like today's conservative would wish for little more, musically speaking, than for Beyoncé's "Texas Hold 'Em" at the next political rally.
Dave you are spot on, I don’t want to make this too much about me, though I probably will, but I grew up incredibly leftist but over the years the lefts own racism/sexism/hypocrisy made right wingism very appealing but now after a few years of wearing both hats I realized each hat is just one half of a larger shitty egg and I just look like foolish king lear wearing either of them also you are spot on completely about the disregard for culture by the right. It is sad that appreciation for art is seen as indicative of one’s political beliefs. Im just a 29 year old man who loves “classical” music and paintings
In musical replay terms I have been purposefully using mono [even on stereo recordings] as my preferred method for three decades. Is it perfect? No! But for long term listening it does not distract. All that comes out is the music, and just where the players are on stage matters not one jot, so long as the balance is good and you can actually listen to all the contrapuntal lines simultaneously. So that make me a musical centrist! As for politics, there is a wise old maxim, "Never talk to acquaintances about religion or politics." In reality I hold deeply held views that put me left of Bernie Sanders, but I listen to all the sides ... I love your vids. May you have an enjoyable Season and great New Year. [Just hoping of course]. Best wishes from George in UK.
Start a campaign; there are plenty of billionaires in the US who could part with many millions and never miss it. Get a seed fund of $1 billion. Start a new fully professional orchestra and choir with no government involvement. Situate it in convenient region somewhere in middle America -NOT on either coast. Hire as many American musicians as possible (shouldn't be a problem). Conductors should be only American. The mission: to perform, broadcast and record music by American composers old and new. Rediscover so much forgotten and unknown music. The works of Gottschalk, Chadwick, Parker, Thomson, Ives, Harrison, Piston, Bennett, Willson and so much else finally brought to life! Of course it would never happen...American interests seem to only be concerned with things you can throw or kick.
I think such an orchestra should also do extensive national touring, NOT to Europe, but right here in the USA, all 50 states, and also MORE than just once per state per year.
@@DavesClassicalGuide RIGHT !! high school gymnasiums. I heard the St. Louis Symphony and KC, MO Phil in such places many times. I've read histories of orchestras and they used to play MANY times on tours in small towns. Videos just don't compare to a live concert WITH encores !!!!
Interesting, Dave. Yes, I’m an academic but not I hope of the kind you discuss there vis à vis US and other cultural “progressives.” I get your frustration, but I also feel (not in a hostile way at all, I’m not a nationalist) that we have never been more saturated by American music in all it’s forms, it’s a basic fact of the sound-world. In so-called “classical” music there are all the tv and film soundtracks, all this Copland derived stuff, the minimalism became a kind of aural wallpaper on tv documentaries and film and commercials in roughly 1990s-2010. Sure, we could listen to more Ives and Lou Harrison, but then there are many composers from elsewhere who don’t get much of a look in either! So I get the political points you’re making, but American music being hard done by not so much. The music composed and largely performed by artists in your country is wildly the most music everyone is exposed to every day, even the post World War 2 stuff.
Boy, oh, boy, you've put your foot in it this time, and I hope you don't have to spend all your waking hours deleting angry comments. Nevertheless, I greatly appreciate what you said. By the way, we're a long, long way from the letter A in the Overflow Room, but do you listen much to George Antheil? Wesley
Hey, I'm going to barge in here -- big Antheil fan. Discovered him through BALLET MECANIQUE, of course, the original techno piece -- but there's so much more to hear!
I disagree with your assessment of the Right's abdication of good music & culture. I've been a professional hornist for 26 years, and have also moved into the Arts Administration side of the industry. From firsthand experience, I can affirm that the professional music industry as a whole has a grossly, disproportionately high percentage of Left, woke people within. I am a staunch Conservative, and I have been virtually alone (politically speaking) nearly my entire career. I have been harrassed, pressured, insulted, cajoled, overlooked, ostracized and lost much, much work over the decades because I don't align with the Far Left. And the Far Left dominates the professional landscape. The Far Left has elbowed its way into the majority within professional music. So it's NOT that the Right has no interest in making American music great again. Quite the opposite! We've tried, but the Left won't allow us to share the space with them, and have pushed the majority of us out. I am one of the very few non-Far-Left musicians who doesn't allow himself to be bullied out of where he knows he belongs.
@@DavesClassicalGuideI love listening to your channel, by the way. I'm in the throes of a deeply thorough survey of recordings of all Mahler symphonies, and I always front-load each symphony with listening to your commentary on it. Thanks for all your insights and expertise!
@@danielwomer Dear Daniel Womer: You are not alone, believe me. But I must say, I'm thankful that I'm the age I am (NO regrets), since I'd never be accepted in today's Arts world, which is exactly as you've described (please see my other comments here). In my many years in arts organizations, it has never failed to amuse me how Leftist Boards/management...who continually "virtue-signal" their disdain for conservatism/capitalism...in ways obvious and subtle..routinely "submit" and go hat-in-hand to Foundations and individuals who have made their wealth via the same free-market, capitalist system. Of course, once they've received their much-needed funding, they go right back to their leftist, "Kulak"-hating ways. This could serve as a prime example of the "H"-word in the title of Mr. Hurwitz's video. Thanks for your honesty in posting your comments, and for your integrity in pursuing your work. And believe me, you are NOT alone in this profession; I know first-hand. Still, most conservatives can only survive by remaining "in the closet" and not risking the intolerance of the Lefties who dominate the music biz.. LR
Hello @danielwomer. It shouldn't need to be said, but I guess it does today, that the disrespect to you shouldn't be happening. Whatever your beliefs, you should be treated in a fair & professional manner, and I'm sorry to hear that you weren't. I'll push back on one thing, though. What you perceive in the people running things in the art world as being "far left", is not far left. It's more something to a central-left corporate friendly ideology - the "woke" aspects are fig-leaf aspects for institutions to appear more progressive than they are. Look at how many times that orchestra management has locked out players in union contracts for a concrete example of this (the Minnesota Orchestra is a big example of this). As Hurwitz alludes to in the video, it's all part of the American capitalist system - not far left by any means!
Often my fellow lefties are annoyed by my devotion to Western Culture ( no offense intended to any others) and I find it puzzling that the ones who benefit from it’s riches( material and spiritual) should ever dismiss or denigrate it. But I find a lot puzzling-frintenance: why do Americans ignore our own great music?
There is a growing portion of the far right who only listens to classical music. But it's mostly limited to Wagner, Beethoven, Bach and nationalistic composers. It's a subsection of the far right that seems to be largely overlooked by leftists. Classical music's low demand from the masses, it's religious themes, and it's connection to more traditional times make it an easy choice for those looking to avoid modernity and globalism.
What is "American Culture" really? I don't think that we can say there is a definitive, single "American Culture". But, I appreciate your efforts towards influencing one! Hope you and yours enjoy a Very Joyous Holiday Season!
Thank you David- well said. And to your point concerning Ives and American composers, this comment by George Grella from NY Classical Review concerning performances or lack thereof…. Biggest disappointment “Charles Ives is the single most essential figure in American classical music, and more important than any individual conductor or administrator has been in this country. For his 150th anniversary, the major New York City classical institutions of the Philharmonic, Carnegie Hall, and the Chamber Music Society of Lincoln Center played absolutely none of his music. They didn’t even rise to the basic parochial connection of Ives’s life as a New Yorker. Utterly shameful.” (GG)
For the right, classical music itself is evil or irrelevant. Pop music is the thing and its commercial value is king. It takes care of itself. We need to put public support of elite culture into more tax cuts for the rich. On the left your points are well taken but classical music of the modern kind is difficult and takes work and repeated exposure to enjoy and understand. For the most part, as a society we are not interested in our own history and doing the intellectual work to invest in exploring and understanding it. Sadly, Culture is by nature a football. culture is essentially bound up with identity and that a battleground for dominance over opposing/ different strains. Too bad we can’t learn to enjoy fine and great music of whatever genre.
It''s blanket statements like this which cause so many problems and mistrust. I'm on the right and so are many fellow musicians and music-lovers I know and we certainly don't think classical is evil or irrelevant.
Speaking from personal experience, you are incorrect when you write, "For the right, classical music itself is evil or irrelevant." Such generalizations are easily punctured.
I don't think I've ever met a single right-leaning person who thought classical music was evil or irrelevant. On the other hand, I've seen plenty of leftists who think it's white supremacist music, elitist, etc.
@@DavesClassicalGuide I enjoy Elliot Carter ,Takemitsu both Adams late ,Coltrane and so on - but trying to get my adult, highly educated family members to listen to something beyond warhorse classical music is impossible. For them music tends to be either background or party music. To sit down and actually listen to music without doing something else takes too much concentration I think it’s a rather small audience who focus on listening to classical music
When investigating the work of American C20 composers, I've been astonished by how poorly served some of them are on disc. There are good recordings of individual works, of course, but a lot of them long out of print and sometimes difficult/expensive to pick up. There ought to be box sets available of, say, symphony cycles by the neo-classicists. As you say, it shows up the inanity of the rhetoric that none of it translates into support for recording projects like that.
Instead of focusing too much on being left or right, we should strive to be as mono as possible.
The channel separation is amazing in the beginning until you realize they're making the same noise in different ways.
@@postmodernrecyclerLove it!😂
@@postmodernrecycler We here in Europe sometimes criticese the USA for just having a "stereo" system, but after all, the music in "5.1" sounds the same ...
Mono it be!
Yeah, but we ditched mono for a reason.
I’m a Republican and a Conservative, yet I was present for the 100th anniversary of Stravinsky’s “Le sacre” on May 29, 2013 at Théâtre des Champs-Elysées in Paris with my son. I can’t live without the music of Berg, Ravel, Debussy, Prokofiev and Stravinsky so I’m a weird eclectic surprise. But in a macro sense, you’re right. I think my political brethren AS A WHOLE probably wouldn’t know good music if it hit them square in the pickup truck.
I think Mitt Romney might.
Democrats, as a whole, don't enjoy classical music either. We listeners of it are a very small minority.
To my fellow conservative Sheffield: I don't see how the general lack of appreciation for classical music reflects in ANY negative way on the conservative movement, other than from our own limited, elitist viewpoint. What percentage (miniscule) of the American public, regardless of political affiliation, cares about Ives or Cowell? And what's the point of castigated anyone over what is clearly an issue of personal taste? On that topic, let's not forget the VAST amount of $ support since the late 19th-century from conservative, free-market businesses and their foundations that have generously funded the Arts (orchestras, opera companies, concert halls) in addition to educational, philanthropic and health organizations, hospitals, museums...etc. SO WHAT if they don't appreciate Charles Ives? They've largely made it possible for his music to survive in performance. [The two Opera companies in Chicago that I directed were almost entirely dependent on the generosity of CONSERVATIVE businessmen for survival; these guys may not have appreciated Cowell, Piston, etc..but they cared IMMENSELY that the performing arts in America continue]. So be proud of your conservatism. LR
I hope not .... Because I'm one. 😁
@@michaelsheldon8407 Very true; so what's the point in maligning the vast majority of the country? We all have the free will to listen to what we please.
We were so lucky during the Schwarz era to have a conductor who explored so much mid-century American rep with the Seattle Symphony. All orchestras should so balance their programs.
I have a pile of those recordings, eg, Piston, Creston, Diamond. Love those neo-classical works.
As a conservative and Christian, my comment is, well said. This is one reason I subscribe to Classics Today: good criticism on a foundation of common sense.
I think what's missing about our understanding of culture is that it is at its best when it is shared - shared openheartedly and with an attitude of welcoming. Maybe, after all, that is what culture is - the cultivation of sharing. Culture lives in its sharing, but dies when used as a weapon of power or an instrument of exclusivity, whether on the left or right. What I find heartening about your approach is that yours is a model of open-hearted sharing. Your humor and passion break through the snobbery and shibboleths of the classical music world. You make music fun again and for that we thank you!
Yes, you need to embrace all culture, not built walls and fences and exclude culture because it doesn't fit your narrow definition of art. Culture is the sharing of ideas from one person from another, from one group to another, and all culture should be encouraged and explored.
I really think it’s just a symptom of the drastic decline in classical music’s market share since the 1960s. As with the rest of Americans, very few politicians (D) or (R) listen to classical music. Democratic politicians do have some supporters who are NPR listeners, but not nearly enough to make promotion of the arts a serious priority. Most Republican elected officials staunchly oppose any public funding for the arts whatsoever; they view classical and jazz as the cultural province of an out-of-touch blue state liberal elite. It is what it is and isn’t like to change.
I went from seeing acres of classical LP's in the late 60's in record and instrument stores, even the May Co. had a large classical selection. About a decade and half later, not much besides The Three Tenors, (Zzzzz......)Baroque Trumpet Concertos, Maybe the New World Symphony. But there was always Tower Records, in their Classical Annex on the fabled Sunset Boulevard in Hollywood, I felt like Pinocchio on Pleasure Island.
Valid point! I very much doubt either side of the polarized aisle can claim a share of classical music listeners above 10%, and that's a liberal guesstimate!
This is absolutely brilliant, Dave. Many thanks.
Each of the sides - and they are both equally polarised - deserves a good bashing on various grounds. We have this in the UK: nobody at the moment does anything other than encourage further polarisation. Nobody is centreist any more.
And indeed each has good ideas - but, as you say, the motivations are all wrong.
The arts, which are purist, can & do exist anywhere on the spectrum, but, I think, are more properly aware of where they are and why.
The Savings Bank of Danbury (CT) just changed their name to "Ives Bank". Weird to name a bank after a composer, but it's great.
My grandmother used to bank there.
Same here in Austria: The conservatives have no interest in culture at all; the far right, which becoms stronger (first place in Austria after the last elections) has an image of culture which has nothing to do with sophisticated art, rather it means schlager music. And on the other side, the left changes words in classic literature to make it political correct, omits the antisemitic paragraphs from an "complete" edition of Highsmith' letters (to protect a lesbian woman from dark shadows) and starts a discussion, which percussion instruments should be forbidden, because they are "cultural appropriation". Standing in the midst between both sides, one get's angry comments and shitstorms from both.
Oh Patty! I don't know what she did wrong but I do enjoy her books
Every word you said, Dave, applies to the situation with classical music in France as well.
You'd think that Classical fans would lean "Conservative" due the fact we focus on "Conserving" repertoire, maintaining appreciation of the "Classics" etc. - BUT that is simply not the case, we are as varied a bunch as any! Many left wing and right wing Classical fans. Barring the extremes - I think it's wonderful that we can all unite in our love of this music!
We don't NEED to discuss politics - it really doesn't matter as much as discussing music does.
Discussing politics NEVER leads to anyone changing their mind - it just leads to making enemies of friends.
Discussing Classical music on the other hand? well that does the opposite - it invites us to be friends with would-be enemies.
Let's unite over our love of Beethoven, Bach, Mahler, Chopin. Tchaikovsky.
It may sound incredibly NAIVE and preposterous to claim "music is more important than politics" - but in our day to day lives - it really IS! it keeps us going, it's our lifeblood.
If someone loves Classical music - we can be friends! their politics simply don't matter to me.
Well said!
Thank you for injecting sanity into the discussion.
No, no please! Music is and will be my escape hatch until the end. I’m going to listen to Munch recordings until the house burns down!
Danke!
Thank you very much!
The Airing of Grievances! An old holiday tradition!
I'm so sick of both extremes. They're dangerous, tired and boring and lack any kind of pure creativity or appreciation for anything that makes a balanced sense. Art, cinema, sports, music and culture in general are being suffocated by these extreme political lefts and rights. Let it all breathe. Stop forcing things to be this way or that way and with all the agenda labelings.
Glad i'm not alone
Political fight with culture as the football. That's a fantastic line.
Gardening!
Great talk Dave, thanks! I am not American, but I have a great respect for American music and literature which I enjoy a lot and it is sad to see what is going on... All the best, keep the good fight!
Harry Partch and Moondog weeks with major orchestras.
Partch is difficult. You would have to use his instruments.
You threaded the needle rather well given the dicey nature of the subject.
Of course. Subtlety is my middle name.
@@DavesClassicalGuide LOL
Well said although I’m afraid I escape from all this madness with music ! A little shout out for England! I’m no great patriot but I love it here and the only tubes I’m going down are the ones that get me to another part of town! Keep up with the music enjoy your passion
This is exhausting to think about but it needed to be said. Thank you. I don’t even like Piston or Ives but I understand that they are part of the “constellation.” They are on the shelf of things I might end up enjoying someday, and I certainly don’t think less of people who enjoy that stuff.
The video about Ives that David that was the subject of a recent video of David, "Dvorak's Prophecy: Charles Ives' America" can be seen for free on TH-cam. My wife is a casual consumer of classical music who didn't get Ives, but now his music really clicks with her thanks to this excellent documentary, and I recommend it to you as an excellent introduction to his music.
Haven't returned to Ives in a long time, semi-enjoyed some stuff but not much interest. Had no interest in Piston at all, had to slog through his Harmony testbook in college. But a while ago got his The Incredible Flutist, not as tiresome as I thought it would be. Got the CD really for the Gottschalk-Kay Cakewalk ballet that was up first.
I fell in love with classical music at age six after my mother took me to Carnegie Hall to hear a concert that included La Mer. I was thunderstruck. I've been obsessed with it ever since. To whatever extent your "bitchfest" hits the nail on the head, no matter - I will keep loving classical music and listening, studying and writing more of it in every spare moment until I bite the dust - even if no one else gives a damn about it - and certainly without expecting any politicians to give the best of our culture and its cultural institutions a moment's thought.
Very interesting, especially your ruminations on Ives. I am not American so I am curious about this: who would a music-loving American consider their most famous composer? Probably not Ives! Gershwin?
I’d say Gershwin as well as Aaron Copland.
Duke Ellington.
These days I think it would be John Williams.
Leonard Bernstein, John Williams, or Philip Glass.
@@Bachback How interesting, thanks. I'd say Copland, Barber, Bernstein, Glass and Adams are the US composers I listen to most often. Not a huge fan of Gershwin, but I understand why he is so popular.
I've been terribly disappointed that the Philadelphia Orchestra Florence Price series has apparently retreated from physical product to streaming. I was hoping for at least three cd's worth.
It's also frustrating that the Met under Gelb gives us the latest in what used to be called CNN opera, woke works which check the correct boxes but of variable merit while completely ignoring some very fine American works of the past century from Taylor and Hanson to Floyd, Moore, Beeson, Pasatieri, Bolcom or Paulus. I'd much rather have Barber's Antony and Cleopatra again than Adams'.
Wow, this was quite something to listen to, for better and for worse! I had a struggle 3/4 thru to continue or abandon🤔but since I REALLY enjoy your music musings, and respect your recommendations, I held on to the end, and felt you somehow brought it together🧡thank you, I think 🤔😁💜
Glad you stuck with it! I think...
@@DavesClassicalGuide ...funny comment😁
My latest on the listening list are Ives' Symphony #3 (which is lovely, needs repeated listening to fully savour the work) and Handel's Judas Maccabeus (the full 3-hour oratorio). Thanks for bringing up Ives again, the Robert Browning Ouverture is a tough nut to crack.
Dave, I apologise for my lack of faith. I clicked on this with trepidation, convinced you were going to give a partisan political lecture. I should have known better!
Re. your comments on US music, I can tell you, as an Australian who grew up in the shadow of the British Empire (manifested here by the dominance of "Gramophone"" and the "Penguin Guides") that your channel has opened my ears to great playing by orchestras I had never heard of.
Unfortunately that means I need to spend more money, but that's OK.
Thank you, for fighting the good fight, and letting the rest of us learn from you.
Some of the same thing happens with literature. Very few people read hard books and, of course, words are easier to politicize than notes. But I believe music suffers more, mostly because people don't have much experience listening to anything but pop. Furthermore, when they decide they might be missing something, they want Genuine Masterpieces. There's no sense of real exploration, even though streaming services provide an affordable way to do it. To me, you've got to be willing to "waste your time" to discover your tastes.
Very true!
Couldn't agree more. Support any and all of those things that make American culture so rich and unique. If someone's offended by this light criticism, remember that you're less than 1/100000000 of the votes cast, so don't make that you're identity. Stop worrying about the left/right nonsense and just enjoy the culture.
Bravo, Dave. This was an excellent semi-tangent to delve into.
I wish the right was doing "nothing" regarding culture. They are busy showing up at town hall and school board meetings, attempting to have some of the best American novels banned from our schools and public libraries. Some of these banned books include: To Kill a Mockingbird, The Great Gatsby, The Prince of Tides, The Catcher in the Rye, Schindler's List and, if you can believe it, the Lord of the Rings. While they have been ignoring music, at the moment, I'm almost certain it's somewhere on their list. Stay tuned.
To Kill a Mockingbird was attacked by the woke left, not the right.
The conservatives intellectuals and artists think they are safe, but you know the populist right will turn on them too soon enough. It’s the impossible for a movement this virulently anti-intellectual to ever appreciate the arts.
If you could make 4 or 5 recommendations, specifically to orchestral managements and conductors, based on your ideas here, what would they be?
Lou Harrison did some cool Gamelan influenced stuff. Haven't heard that in 15 years but i enjoyed it
That‘s real music loving! Thank you, Dave!
I like thinking of political parties as clumps. Such a versatile word.
Just because musical culture in America is no longer classical, does not mean there is none. Rock and roll, jazz, blues, bluegrass, and country are all birthed here. The biggest musical sensation in the world is Taylor Swift. You can argue that it is crappy culture and most of us might agree. It’s a sad statement that the Lyric Opera in Baltimore is gone. That orchestras scramble for funding. That small community orchestras have disappeared. But that doesn’t mean there is no musical culture. Our biggest problem in classical music, IMO, is lack of exposure. If 6th graders all took a class trip to see Peter and the Wolf or something similar we’d generate the interest in the coming generations.
Actually, I think there's far more music available than the interest in it readily supports. I have no issue with organizations going bust. Not everyone can or will participate, but there should be some recognition of the importance of American musical culture and support for it, whether public or private. I'm actually pretty conservative when it comes to public funding of the arts, but that's a tricky question and it depends on how it's done.
Since the rise of online political obsession I've seen art/culture criticism go steeply downhill. People who are passionate (to use a kind word) about their political affiliation only seem to care about art to the extent that it's propaganda for their agendas. They have no concept of aesthetics or formalism or the difference between representation Vs expression. A pox on both their houses.
Great thoughts! Thanks for sharing.
I guess I agree with some of this...if when we say 'culture' we mean just classical music. I know this is a classical music vlog, but I'd say that, for the most part, Americal cultural products still retain a hold over most of the rest of the world...if you consider popular music (Taylor Swift just completed a multi-billion dollar world tour. For me that's totally blech, but I don't think you can say it's not culture). Classical music is kind of its own thing because by and large, right or left, it is pretty much ignored by the mainstream media. I'm thinking here, for instance, about how pretty much every major news organization has ditched any semblance of arts reporting. Let's face it, it's just not considered 'relevant' (ghastly word). I'm not sure how 'wokeness' comes into this. OK, the left may have some wacky ideas. I can't stand the concept of 'cultural appropriation'. While I do understand that often communities who created a particular cultural 'product' failed to see the financial rewards that accrued to white people when they 'appropriated' it...I'm thinking here mainly of jazz and blues, but by and large it's an intellectually empty concept. Every culture has influenced every other culture throughout history. Should we expect the Italians to return the concept of pasta to the Chinese?
Where I really part company with you is in your glib assertion that both sides are 'the same'. Sorry, no. The intentions of today's 'right wing' in the US are openly sinister. They are committed to taking rights away from people and to threatening any opposition into silence. A few arts organizations creating a DEA program doesn't really compare, in my opinion. At least with the sometimes over-zealous left, arts would continue to be funded. With the right in power, you can kiss all of that goodbye.
Good discussion.
Well, of course I'm talking about classical music, and you are right when you consider "culture" in the wider sense. As for the right's sinister intentions, I'm not entirely on board with that sentiment, however much I may disagree with the policies of one particular branch of it. I think we are living in a time when there are many unhappy people who want to see things shaken up. I can't even begin to see what that will mean in the long term. And I do feel that the further you go to either extreme, the closer both right and left get in their intolerance and closed-mindedness. That I know for a fact.
Your post has me thinking. Perhaps we should distinguish between the cultural left/right and the political left/right. The cultural left--the woke--have been helpful stimulating intetest in the perhaps unjustly ignored works of female and nin-white composers and insisting upon expanding opportunities for minority musicians. The extreme among the cultural left have denigrated the established canon inappropriately. The cultural right has been mostly silent about music. Their focus on the arts seems to center around censorship of literature, theater, and visual arts. To the extent music comes up in politics, the principal issue is government funding. To the extent American politicians have supported government funding of the arts, they have come from the more statist element of the left; in the States, the right has tended to support small government and limited funding. You set out the basis for a program to unite all 4 sectors: The cultural left and right should all support promulgation of American repertoire and opportunity for American talent. Both the political left and right should support some government financing to build community through the arts, increase the stature and prestige of American music, and expand opportunities for American talent.
It’s a shame in general that America doesn’t promote and perform our own composers such as Copland, Harris, Hanson, Ives, Barber, ect. But yet again there is still a big European influence on American orchestras. I don’t necessarily think it’s a political problem, I just think it’s a anti-american bias because American composers really didn’t come into the scene of classical until the 1890’s.
As a Swiss citizen, I don‘t think it‘s an anti-American bias - to me it feels more like a self-righteous neglect.
Louis Moreau Gottschalk and Edward MacDowell would be rolling over in their graves if they'd be able to read this 😉
Brilliant again Dave
Listening to the Leonard Slatkin American Collection would be a good starting point. Unfortunately, it appears to be out of print!
Slatkin has always done a vast array of music, foreign and domestic, old and new.
Right on target, David, brilliant.
SO spot on. This was really good!
This is brilliant, Dave!! Although I tend to lean conservative, I’m pretty much centrist. I absolutely agree with your take on the bullshit on both sides.
Centrists are some of the worst hypocrites of all
@ Hypocrites can be found at any point along the spectrum.
@@kevinm6790 Exactly.
Most people I meet whether on the right or the left are basically interested in some form of Rock music and that's about it. I rarely meet people on the Left who have interest in Classical, but I do know a few on the Right who appreciate Classical music.
One more Classical deplorable bitter clinger here.
Furtwängler's 1942 live recording of Beethoven's 9th, for example, already serves to illustrate the consequences of melding artistic and political ambitions, does it not? Not sure how many of today's orchestral conductors yearn for an asterisk such as that. Moreover, it seems like today's conservative would wish for little more, musically speaking, than for Beyoncé's "Texas Hold 'Em" at the next political rally.
I'd bet anything Charles Ives wasn't thinking about Sikorsky's when he wrote that Housatonic piece!
He was a bit north of Stratford.
Dave you are spot on, I don’t want to make this too much about me, though I probably will, but I grew up incredibly leftist but over the years the lefts own racism/sexism/hypocrisy made right wingism very appealing but now after a few years of wearing both hats I realized each hat is just one half of a larger shitty egg and I just look like foolish king lear wearing either of them also you are spot on completely about the disregard for culture by the right. It is sad that appreciation for art is seen as indicative of one’s political beliefs. Im just a 29 year old man who loves “classical” music and paintings
In musical replay terms I have been purposefully using mono [even on stereo recordings] as my preferred method for three decades. Is it perfect? No! But for long term listening it does not distract. All that comes out is the music, and just where the players are on stage matters not one jot, so long as the balance is good and you can actually listen to all the contrapuntal lines simultaneously.
So that make me a musical centrist!
As for politics, there is a wise old maxim, "Never talk to acquaintances about religion or politics." In reality I hold deeply held views that put me left of Bernie Sanders, but I listen to all the sides ...
I love your vids. May you have an enjoyable Season and great New Year. [Just hoping of course]. Best wishes from George in UK.
Start a campaign; there are plenty of billionaires in the US who could part with many millions and never miss it. Get a seed fund of $1 billion. Start a new fully professional orchestra and choir with no government involvement. Situate it in convenient region somewhere in middle America -NOT on either coast. Hire as many American musicians as possible (shouldn't be a problem). Conductors should be only American. The mission: to perform, broadcast and record music by American composers old and new. Rediscover so much forgotten and unknown music. The works of Gottschalk, Chadwick, Parker, Thomson, Ives, Harrison, Piston, Bennett, Willson and so much else finally brought to life! Of course it would never happen...American interests seem to only be concerned with things you can throw or kick.
I've been suggesting that for years.
I think such an orchestra should also do extensive national touring, NOT to Europe, but right here in the USA, all 50 states, and also MORE than just once per state per year.
And not to major concert venues--to schools and churches and "popular" venues in out of the way places.
@@DavesClassicalGuide RIGHT !! high school gymnasiums. I heard the St. Louis Symphony and KC, MO Phil in such places many times.
I've read histories of orchestras and they used to play MANY times on tours in small towns. Videos just don't compare to a live concert WITH encores !!!!
Interesting, Dave. Yes, I’m an academic but not I hope of the kind you discuss there vis à vis US and other cultural “progressives.” I get your frustration, but I also feel (not in a hostile way at all, I’m not a nationalist) that we have never been more saturated by American music in all it’s forms, it’s a basic fact of the sound-world. In so-called “classical” music there are all the tv and film soundtracks, all this Copland derived stuff, the minimalism became a kind of aural wallpaper on tv documentaries and film and commercials in roughly 1990s-2010. Sure, we could listen to more Ives and Lou Harrison, but then there are many composers from elsewhere who don’t get much of a look in either! So I get the political points you’re making, but American music being hard done by not so much. The music composed and largely performed by artists in your country is wildly the most music everyone is exposed to every day, even the post World War 2 stuff.
Interesting!
Salut !!
Boy, oh, boy, you've put your foot in it this time, and I hope you don't have to spend all your waking hours deleting angry comments. Nevertheless, I greatly appreciate what you said. By the way, we're a long, long way from the letter A in the Overflow Room, but do you listen much to George Antheil? Wesley
Actually yes. I like Antheil very much.
May we have a Glass or Adam....and a ' few others' since? 😊
@@DavesClassicalGuide Cool, so do I.
Hey, I'm going to barge in here -- big Antheil fan. Discovered him through BALLET MECANIQUE, of course, the original techno piece -- but there's so much more to hear!
@@1-JBL Ha! Original techno piece for sure.
Amen
I disagree with your assessment of the Right's abdication of good music & culture.
I've been a professional hornist for 26 years, and have also moved into the Arts Administration side of the industry. From firsthand experience, I can affirm that the professional music industry as a whole has a grossly, disproportionately high percentage of Left, woke people within. I am a staunch Conservative, and I have been virtually alone (politically speaking) nearly my entire career. I have been harrassed, pressured, insulted, cajoled, overlooked, ostracized and lost much, much work over the decades because I don't align with the Far Left. And the Far Left dominates the professional landscape.
The Far Left has elbowed its way into the majority within professional music. So it's NOT that the Right has no interest in making American music great again. Quite the opposite! We've tried, but the Left won't allow us to share the space with them, and have pushed the majority of us out.
I am one of the very few non-Far-Left musicians who doesn't allow himself to be bullied out of where he knows he belongs.
Good for you!
@@DavesClassicalGuideI love listening to your channel, by the way. I'm in the throes of a deeply thorough survey of recordings of all Mahler symphonies, and I always front-load each symphony with listening to your commentary on it. Thanks for all your insights and expertise!
@@danielwomer Dear Daniel Womer: You are not alone, believe me. But I must say, I'm thankful that I'm the age I am (NO regrets), since I'd never be accepted in today's Arts world, which is exactly as you've described (please see my other comments here). In my many years in arts organizations, it has never failed to amuse me how Leftist Boards/management...who continually "virtue-signal" their disdain for conservatism/capitalism...in ways obvious and subtle..routinely "submit" and go hat-in-hand to Foundations and individuals who have made their wealth via the same free-market, capitalist system. Of course, once they've received their much-needed funding, they go right back to their leftist, "Kulak"-hating ways. This could serve as a prime example of the "H"-word in the title of Mr. Hurwitz's video. Thanks for your honesty in posting your comments, and for your integrity in pursuing your work. And believe me, you are NOT alone in this profession; I know first-hand. Still, most conservatives can only survive by remaining "in the closet" and not risking the intolerance of the Lefties who dominate the music biz.. LR
Mr. Womer, There are more conservatives in classical music than you may think; you are NOT alone. Best, LR
Hello @danielwomer. It shouldn't need to be said, but I guess it does today, that the disrespect to you shouldn't be happening. Whatever your beliefs, you should be treated in a fair & professional manner, and I'm sorry to hear that you weren't.
I'll push back on one thing, though. What you perceive in the people running things in the art world as being "far left", is not far left. It's more something to a central-left corporate friendly ideology - the "woke" aspects are fig-leaf aspects for institutions to appear more progressive than they are. Look at how many times that orchestra management has locked out players in union contracts for a concrete example of this (the Minnesota Orchestra is a big example of this). As Hurwitz alludes to in the video, it's all part of the American capitalist system - not far left by any means!
Dave, love your channel and commentary. Proud American composer here!
Greetings from the UK.Thank you for your excellent informative talks, which are most helpful and enjoyable.
Often my fellow lefties are annoyed by my devotion to Western Culture ( no offense intended to any others) and I find it puzzling that the ones who benefit from it’s riches( material and spiritual) should ever dismiss or denigrate it. But I find a lot puzzling-frintenance: why do Americans ignore our own great music?
There is a growing portion of the far right who only listens to classical music. But it's mostly limited to Wagner, Beethoven, Bach and nationalistic composers. It's a subsection of the far right that seems to be largely overlooked by leftists.
Classical music's low demand from the masses, it's religious themes, and it's connection to more traditional times make it an easy choice for those looking to avoid modernity and globalism.
What is "American Culture" really? I don't think that we can say there is a definitive, single "American Culture". But, I appreciate your efforts towards influencing one! Hope you and yours enjoy a Very Joyous Holiday Season!
Thank you David- well said. And to your point concerning Ives and American composers, this comment by George Grella from NY Classical Review concerning performances or lack thereof….
Biggest disappointment
“Charles Ives is the single most essential figure in American classical music, and more important than any individual conductor or administrator has been in this country. For his 150th anniversary, the major New York City classical institutions of the Philharmonic, Carnegie Hall, and the Chamber Music Society of Lincoln Center played absolutely none of his music. They didn’t even rise to the basic parochial connection of Ives’s life as a New Yorker. Utterly shameful.”
(GG)
For the right, classical music itself is evil or irrelevant. Pop music is the thing and its commercial value is king. It takes care of itself. We need to put public support of elite culture into more tax cuts for the rich. On the left your points are well taken but classical music of the modern kind is difficult and takes work and repeated exposure to enjoy and understand. For the most part, as a society we are not interested in our own history and doing the intellectual work to invest in exploring and understanding it. Sadly, Culture is by nature a football. culture is essentially bound up with identity and that a battleground for dominance over opposing/ different strains. Too bad we can’t learn to enjoy fine and great music of whatever genre.
Not all of it is difficult. Film scores are often not difficult. Lou Harrison, composers like Hovhaness, and the minimalists are often enchanting.
It''s blanket statements like this which cause so many problems and mistrust. I'm on the right and so are many fellow musicians and music-lovers I know and we certainly don't think classical is evil or irrelevant.
Speaking from personal experience, you are incorrect when you write, "For the right, classical music itself is evil or irrelevant." Such generalizations are easily punctured.
I don't think I've ever met a single right-leaning person who thought classical music was evil or irrelevant. On the other hand, I've seen plenty of leftists who think it's white supremacist music, elitist, etc.
@@DavesClassicalGuide I enjoy Elliot Carter ,Takemitsu both Adams late ,Coltrane and so on - but trying to get my adult, highly educated family members to listen to something beyond warhorse classical music is impossible. For them music tends to be either background or party music. To sit down and actually listen to music without doing something else takes too much concentration I think it’s a rather small audience who focus on listening to classical music
When investigating the work of American C20 composers, I've been astonished by how poorly served some of them are on disc. There are good recordings of individual works, of course, but a lot of them long out of print and sometimes difficult/expensive to pick up. There ought to be box sets available of, say, symphony cycles by the neo-classicists. As you say, it shows up the inanity of the rhetoric that none of it translates into support for recording projects like that.
Quite so, nicely articulated.
Pop and jazz music is, of course, totally about appropriation, imperialism and capitalism.
Somebody else said it first, that the Rock Music Industry was the greatest monument to capitalism in human history.
@pianomaly9 Yeah.