I went to school for process control and spent a lot of time working with PID controllers and the theory behind them, both in college and on the job. Since getting a quad, racing, and looking at blackbox (not to mention your videos), I took the leap from memorizing a textbook to fully understanding what each term does and how they affect each other. So I thank you very much for helping me with your depth of knowledge, you have taught me more than thousands of dollars in tuition has! lol
I cannot tell you enough times Josh THANK YOU. You are instrumental into how I tune as of late. You break things down that just makes it easy for me to learn from. I hope your channel takes off with all the new improvements you have been doing to it. I will always be a faithful follower thanks again.
Thank you soooooo much for talking about the importance of tuning your own craft. I so often hear people asking for PIDs when there is no "one size fits all" . Great video as always man. Keep it up!
I love this title :) You make a great point Josh, about HOW you tune i.e. use the same tune for racing and acro flight. I think you're spot on, and consistency is worth its weight in gold. I'm still learning mind you, so if I ever become some sort of 1337 super-pilot I may change my opinion, but right now your methodology just makes logical sense to me.
Definitely saving this video for multiple viewings when I'm ready to tune. Slowly piecing all the components based on your videos for my 1st build. I did however jump the gun by purchasing a Naze32 Rev 6.
+skunkman62 Well, chances are it will be fine. But I would already start saving up for the replacement, as I have a friend who has had three of them fail in less than a few months each. But other people out there fly them with no problem, so you may be okay. It would just stink to be grounded if/when it goes.
Nothing like starting out on an Atari. Lol you gotta complete it by getting all vintage hardware so it'll be like a little time machine you can always go back to on your FPV journey.
Awesome ! Not seen one of your videos before, really, really impressed by the detail and stats shown. Surprised how little your sticks mode whilst flying, cool to see that overlay in the video. Thanks
Hey Josh, just wanted to say a big Thank You for this video, very informative and has helped me diagnose my quad as having too much D gain on Roll. Great videos, keep up the good work :)
when you strip your wire for the main power lead, from your pdb to xt60. Keep the silicone sleeving that you strip off and use that for anti vibration dampers.
Hi Joshua, thanks for explaining so nicely all you's information about BlackBox, PID settings, gyro noise, dampening and quick tips (about maintening XT60). It's very usefull. I've learned so muchs in the 2 weeks i'm following your channel. Maybe you can if you like post a video with the a worse tuned quadcopter, everybody starts with a new quad and tune it till it flies good. I'm mean every quad owner got to tune their quads, it flys never immidiately perfect after the build! It's maybe nice too show that too?
+Dropkicker27 It's been two weeks but I want to let you know this is high on my list of videos to make. Sort of. I plan to set P to some ridiculously low value and I and D to zero, and then show how the copter flies as you bring the values up.
Thanks you again, I keep learning cause I keep tuning in. I said tonight "what Joshua got for me tonight?" Another great lesson with great info. Ill be heading to my LHS soon to pick up a few heli blade dampeners , Im sure they have a few soft sets in stock for those little birds. My quads pretty vibe free but hey why not make it better. :} Looking forward to my next lesson.
Thank a lot for this example! It will be great if you show an other opposite example with what will be considered as a over tuned , oscillating quad with too high P and D.
Thanks for the brain dump. You explain what you are up to very well. One thing I'd like to see is comparisons on the screen between your optimal tuning results and the oscillations you want to avoid. Not a criticism so much as a feature request. :) I'm subscribing.
Joshua I think it's great you take the time to do all of these video. There is so much good information in them. I am not that great at tuning my quad, so I think I should give blackbox a try. Is there another video before this one for someone who doesn't know how to use or read blackbox for tuning? Or point me in the right direction.
Fantastic tutorial as always. I'm going to try the dampeners on my FC to see what kind of difference it makes. Regarding materials for the spacers, do you think nitro fuel tubing would be too stiff? Also are the screws and standoffs isolated from the frame at all or is it just down to the dampener above and below the board? Cheers
+Porutac People have specifically suggested fuel tubing, so I think it would be fine. Whether you want to isolate the screws is up to you, but personally I think that a damper above and below the board should be more than enough.
+Joshua Bardwell Cool, thanks for the info! I suspect a little vibration isolation will go a long way on my quad since my motors have lived a pretty hard life.
Joshua, I'm a software developer and I'm just getting into the drone racing scene. Your videos are great - super helpful for folks like me! I'm considering starting an open source project to help analyze blackbox logs as a way for me to get my hands dirty and learn more about this stuff. I have some ideas (spectrogram visualization, machine learning based classification of issues, pid adjustment recommender, etc), but I'm new to this so I'm hoping we could chat a bit to see what would be the most useful. Do you have time to discuss?
Thanks again for another educationally detailed video Joshua. Do you already have a video comparing the P, I and D term waves?... And if not, will you be making one?
Have you ever thought of a kilt? Nothing wrong with what you wear just wondered if you ever tried a kilt I've seen them but don't know what they're like
For dampers, just pick up some 3mm glow fuel tubing from the hobby shop and cut it into lengths required. Cheapest, and best dampers for this purpose IMHO , and you will have a lifetime supply with one $4 purchase.
+ArionRaine so will order this one right? www.ebay.com/itm/2-3mm-3-32-I-D-Silicone-RC-Nitro-Glow-Engine-Fuel-Tubing-Hose-Pipe-Silicon-Tube-/261108962863?var=&hash=item3ccb4e962f:m:mhpPbFXaZEpW98jWAFskP_Q
Joshua Bardwell Interesting to hear. Wondering if that's 6500 related ? I found a big improvement going from 2.4 to 2.6. But like you said, if it ain't broke....
OK... so its not that then. Would be interesting to see before & after Blackbox logs going from 2.4.1 to 2.6.1 with the same tune & similar flight path / conditions. By the way I can't get Jeremy Clarkson's voice out of my head when I see the best tuned copter "in the world" :)
Very well known in nitro rc planes. Go buy nitro rc gas line. It's cheap you can cut grommets of any size for days. They're perfect size for use as vibration grommets.
I just stumbled across this video and subscribed to your channel. Looks like good stuff. I've got a stupid question. You mention black neck, where can I get this?
+Joshua Bardwell Sorry, I wrote that from my Android and I guess it interpreted box as neck. I would like to know where I learn more about this Blackbox system you are using. A link to a website would suffice. Thanks.
+Joshua Bardwell So this only works on cleanflight then? I usually fly APM since it had an AutoTune feature to take care of the PID settings for me. I'm guessing think you get a better flying machine by tuning it yourself? How would you describe how your tuning results compare to AutoTune? Sorry but the title "The Best Tuned Quadcopter ... In The World" click baited me here.
I don't think Blackbox works on APM. Check out my video from today "Practical PID Tuning" for an example of what I do without Blackbox. I don't think autotune works very well personally but I have pretty specific goals for a tune.
Try the Cobra champions 2207 2450kv (old tech) I still fly those motors. still blows me away everytime i fly them. the BBB 2207 2650kv are almost as powerful just better efficiency. I only use 2207 so choices were slim.
Hey, very informative video, but Im still looking for help. I have Naze32 on 2200mAh 3s ZMR250 with 1806 2400kv motors, and whenever i give it more then 75% throttle it starts to fall to 1 sire, e.g. roll right, pitch foreward and yaw about 50 degrees to the left... What do I need to change to fix this? PIDs or something else? If its PID, which one do I need to lower? I already lowered P and got rid of most of the oscilation, but I´m still tuning. Thanks for help! - Oliver
Joshua Bardwell hmm, now that you say that yes, I crashed it once and id was dirty, and since then sometimes it wont spin up when i arm it, so i have to arm and disarm several time before i can take off... what should I do? just replace motor? or when could be the problem there? or could this also be damaged ESC?
+south02m Yes. I think it's at 22 degrees. I still feel like, for acro flight, it is a good choice for me. For racing, I might-could take it or leave it, since it's not too hard to coordinate turns manually. But coordinating snap-rolls and split-s maneuvers is hard to get smooth and consistent and I like using the uptilt compensation to help.
I use Nitro RC car fuel tube as vibe dampers on my FC Try it tighten the screws only enough to squish the fuel tube a bit The fuel tube acts like a nyloc nut keeping the screws from backing out
+Joshua Bardwell They are the same material but aquarium silicone tubing has a larger ID and the tube slips over M3 screw heads very easily. It also does not grip the M3 screws threads and the screws loosen often when using aquarium silicone tubing so you need to check it every few flights.
Ur vibration isolating setup; how do u know the plastic bolt threads arent touching the FC FCB? Iv dealt with vibration through fast spinning HDD arrays in servers and noisy external fuel pumps in street cars.It would be more ideal if u index out the hole in the corners of the PCB and then run a silicon insulator around that as well I M O .
+ATMO You're right, but the results ultimately speak for themselves. Huge improvement! Any time you take a Dremel to a PCB, there is a chance of damage, so it's just not worth it to me if it's not needed.
+Javier Sanchez the stick overlay is rcCommand which is after expo is applied. My sticks are moving more than you see. I think I typically ran about 0.65 expo.
Hi Josh. Does the video file have to be a certain type in Blackbox? I've uploaded the log file to blackbox explorer with the video file, but video file does not load. Video plays in wmp ok and it was recorder in Fatshark goggles. Cheers :)
+bing quadby Yes, sort of. The F303 doesn't have buzzer holes. Well, actually, the latest rev does, but mine doesn't. So I put the + pin of the buzzer through a spare 5v header, and run a wire to the - buzzer pad. I also use a small piece of foam tape to reinforce and vibration-isolate the buzzer.
The best quadcopter, or any flying craft............... IN THE WORLD, is the one you are flying. All the other ones are not flown by you at that moment.
+Sindre In my experience, about 1 kHz with 1:1 logging. That's a very rough number that depends on exactly what you're logging. For example, if you're running iNav, you're logging a whole lot of additional variables. If you're running a 10DOF board vs. a 6DOF board, same thing.
+Joshua Bardwell thanks mate. I got the latest fw and should hopefully get as good log performance as possible. Pure acro log. Just finished my 8 KHz build (I'm the same Sindre as just popped up in the BF thread). Just needed to know what kind of BB denom I need to use. I'll give that a go then. Never bothered with BB before but looks very useful.
If you're running raceflight at 8 kHz then I would start with a blackbox_rate_denom of 8. If you're running betaflight, you need to take into account the pid_process_denominator as well. The blackbox logging rate is 8 kHz / pid_process_denominator / blackbox_rate_denom.
+Joshua Bardwell Currently I'm using BF. Still 8 then as pid_process_denominator is 1. That should then give a logging rate of 1 KHz. I'll try that and see what happens. Thanks again mate
why is youre roll rate set higher than pitch rate? normal its the pitch rate that needs slightly higher number to compensate the mass that is spread over the lenght of the frame
+Hans Turpyn That's just how I like it. I don't think it's normal for pitch rate to have to be higher. Pitch P gain has to be higher to achieve the commanded angular rate. But the desired angular rate can be however you want.
+Joshua Bardwell if you like it than thats good :) but normaly on most frames the weight is spread in the lenght of the frame making the movement slower on the pitch. therefore some people set the rate on pitch slightly higher to compensate that and make the roll & pitch even.
+Joshua Bardwell and yes i know that the P on pitch mostly is a bit higher also do to the mass that is spread over the lenghth of the frame. but i am talking about the rates, but all in all. if you like it that way thats the most important. ;)
+Hans Turpyn I think you're confusing rate with P. As long as the copter is doing what you command, it will rotate at the commanded speed no matter what the axis.
+Relic FPV i am talking about the rates, not pids. i know what pids are and what they do :) lets say we take a zmr frame and give roll & pitch the same rates. now give full stick on these 2 axis, you will see that the pitch axis is alway a bit slower do to the mass that is spread over the lenghth make it more sluggish on that axis. thats also the reason that you need less P on roll, because its more agile on that axis and starts to oscillate with to hight P
+south02m I have flown rewrite forever and I know exactly what rates I like from it. I like the strictly linear rates of rewrite and lux compared to the dynamic rates of MW2.3.
I had weird gyro twitches on 2.6.1 that I didn't care to track down. They're not there on 2.4.1 with no changes necessary from me. The next copter I build will be 2.6.1, but for the time being. I'm staying on 2.4.1 for my QAV-R.
I'm noticing a lot of "bounce back" in flips and rolls specifically in air mode. I tune the quad in rate, and get things right, but when I go into air mode I feel like there's a lot of bounce. Is this something you've dealt with?
+Levi Maston air mode should increase authority at low throttle. If turning on air mode makes bounce worse then I would guess your copter is over tuned. Excess P. Tune how you fly. Air mode on or off.
hi Mr engineer i'm a kind of nob i watch all ur vid and take advice i have a f303 v2 with dys xm20 and emax red bottoms 2300kv on an x frame i build can i send u the black box readings for u to look at please, i m really trying to get more ppl on my island to get in to drone racing im from trinidad and tobago google it if u dont know were that is
+MicroRCFiend I really hoped putting Jeremy Clarkson in the thumbnail would give it away. "... in the world" is his catch-phrase. Sorry the joke didn't land for you.
+MicroRCFiend FWIW, personally I feel like clickbait is purposely vague titles that are intended to suck you in, like, "10 weird tricks for better PID tuning. #6 had my jaw on the floor!" With this title, if you literally believe that I'm claiming to have the best tuned copter in the world, then I don't know what to say. I just don't see how you can take this title as anything except an exaggeration.
I said fine line, between, not that you crossed it. You just seem to be skating that line as close as possible when I feel your content is way above needing this. It's just my opinion though, i'm not at all put out if you disagree. It's gutting to see awesome channels go spammy and impersonal because they are trying too hard to grow fast. I have nothing but respect for you and learn something every video, even this one. So please don't take my lack of tact and Yorkshire honesty as anything but what it is. I'm a touch blunt.
like to thank u soooo much your videos helped me out so much Be nice but first tine tune with blackbox betaflight .. After this noticed yaw p gain was a Lil high so dropped it 0.3 .. Tuned with bent props .. Now to see what it does with my new set lol.. th-cam.com/video/PtHOZkwRfdI/w-d-xo.html
This video is wrong on so many levels. It's not how data should be used. You should watch requested vs delivered value and look ad P, I & D terms. Watch for overshoot and oscilation.
I went to school for process control and spent a lot of time working with PID controllers and the theory behind them, both in college and on the job. Since getting a quad, racing, and looking at blackbox (not to mention your videos), I took the leap from memorizing a textbook to fully understanding what each term does and how they affect each other. So I thank you very much for helping me with your depth of knowledge, you have taught me more than thousands of dollars in tuition has! lol
I cannot tell you enough times Josh THANK YOU. You are instrumental into how I tune as of late. You break things down that just makes it easy for me to learn from. I hope your channel takes off with all the new improvements you have been doing to it. I will always be a faithful follower thanks again.
+Brent Simpson Thanks kindly. Glad you like the channel.
I use silicone hard drive vibration isolators. Fit's on M3 perfectly.
bauhaus where do you buy them? I've been looking for a bulk source of them for a while now.
Thank you soooooo much for talking about the importance of tuning your own craft. I so often hear people asking for PIDs when there is no "one size fits all" . Great video as always man. Keep it up!
+Bluegrass.Multirotor Agree. Somebody else's PIDs are a crap shoot.
I love this title :) You make a great point Josh, about HOW you tune i.e. use the same tune for racing and acro flight. I think you're spot on, and consistency is worth its weight in gold. I'm still learning mind you, so if I ever become some sort of 1337 super-pilot I may change my opinion, but right now your methodology just makes logical sense to me.
Lots and lots of LOVE to you! Joshua Bardwell.
One thing you can use for dampening is the softer nitro fuel tubing like hayes and cut them to length.
Definitely saving this video for multiple viewings when I'm ready to tune. Slowly piecing all the components based on your videos for my 1st build. I did however jump the gun by purchasing a Naze32 Rev 6.
+skunkman62 Well, chances are it will be fine. But I would already start saving up for the replacement, as I have a friend who has had three of them fail in less than a few months each. But other people out there fly them with no problem, so you may be okay. It would just stink to be grounded if/when it goes.
Nothing like starting out on an Atari. Lol you gotta complete it by getting all vintage hardware so it'll be like a little time machine you can always go back to on your FPV journey.
Awesome ! Not seen one of your videos before, really, really impressed by the detail and stats shown. Surprised how little your sticks mode whilst flying, cool to see that overlay in the video. Thanks
+Ivan Gutowski the sticks overlay is after expo is applied so the stocks are actually moving more than that.
Hey Josh, just wanted to say a big Thank You for this video, very informative and has helped me diagnose my quad as having too much D gain on Roll. Great videos, keep up the good work :)
D gain is like salt in a soup. Too much will ruin the whole thing. Just enough makes it delightful.
Thanks so much for this video! I've been hoping you'd do this for a while.
when you strip your wire for the main power lead, from your pdb to xt60. Keep the silicone sleeving that you strip off and use that for anti vibration dampers.
Hi Joshua, thanks for explaining so nicely all you's information about BlackBox, PID settings, gyro noise, dampening and quick tips (about maintening XT60). It's very usefull. I've learned so muchs in the 2 weeks i'm following your channel.
Maybe you can if you like post a video with the a worse tuned quadcopter, everybody starts with a new quad and tune it till it flies good. I'm mean every quad owner got to tune their quads, it flys never immidiately perfect after the build! It's maybe nice too show that too?
+Dropkicker27 It's been two weeks but I want to let you know this is high on my list of videos to make. Sort of. I plan to set P to some ridiculously low value and I and D to zero, and then show how the copter flies as you bring the values up.
Very helpful. Thank you Josh
Thanks you again, I keep learning cause I keep tuning in. I said tonight "what Joshua got for me tonight?" Another great lesson with great info. Ill be heading to my LHS soon to pick up a few heli blade dampeners , Im sure they have a few soft sets in stock for those little birds. My quads pretty vibe free but hey why not make it better. :} Looking forward to my next lesson.
Another great instructional vid, keep up the good work.
Thanks for the notes. I see I have lots of work to do.
Thank a lot for this example! It will be great if you show an other opposite example with what will be considered as a over tuned , oscillating quad with too high P and D.
I posted a high D example to my Facebook page yesterday. Check it out!
Thanks for the brain dump. You explain what you are up to very well. One thing I'd like to see is comparisons on the screen between your optimal tuning results and the oscillations you want to avoid. Not a criticism so much as a feature request. :) I'm subscribing.
+Ming Mongo Keep an eye on the channel going into the beginning of next week. I have a whole tuning series coming up.
+Joshua Bardwell Sweet!
Joshua I think it's great you take the time to do all of these video. There is so much good information in them. I am not that great at tuning my quad, so I think I should give blackbox a try. Is there another video before this one for someone who doesn't know how to use or read blackbox for tuning? Or point me in the right direction.
+RookTV th-cam.com/play/PLwoDb7WF6c8lS4iNqWuyQgbz4IBngB58Z.html
I love the tech9 reference in here thats one of my fav songs .....jack of all trades or be the master of none ....yeah thats awesome ..
WOW... Cleanflight! It's the first of your videos where you use it that I've ever seen! 😂
Thus was back when you could use either.
@@JoshuaBardwell Well, you still can, but... It wouldn't make sense anymore.
Great video! I just built my first quad and I found this to be a very clear guide to the goals of tuning.
+Brad DeBruler Glad it was helpful.
Fantastic tutorial as always. I'm going to try the dampeners on my FC to see what kind of difference it makes. Regarding materials for the spacers, do you think nitro fuel tubing would be too stiff? Also are the screws and standoffs isolated from the frame at all or is it just down to the dampener above and below the board?
Cheers
+Porutac People have specifically suggested fuel tubing, so I think it would be fine. Whether you want to isolate the screws is up to you, but personally I think that a damper above and below the board should be more than enough.
+Joshua Bardwell Cool, thanks for the info! I suspect a little vibration isolation will go a long way on my quad since my motors have lived a pretty hard life.
Joshua, I'm a software developer and I'm just getting into the drone racing scene. Your videos are great - super helpful for folks like me! I'm considering starting an open source project to help analyze blackbox logs as a way for me to get my hands dirty and learn more about this stuff.
I have some ideas (spectrogram visualization, machine learning based classification of issues, pid adjustment recommender, etc), but I'm new to this so I'm hoping we could chat a bit to see what would be the most useful.
Do you have time to discuss?
+Brandon Furtwangler Please email me joshuabardwell @ gmail . com
some real good info, thanks
+michael lee Glad you liked it.
Thanks again for another educationally detailed video Joshua. Do you already have a video comparing the P, I and D term waves?... And if not, will you be making one?
I would say to check out my Blackbox 101 playlist.
Thanks!!!
You are King of usable facts.
consistency is the key to increasing performance.
Hey Joshua,
These are P3 Orings. Typically found in Kyosho shocks.
-Max
Have you ever thought of a kilt? Nothing wrong with what you wear just wondered if you ever tried a kilt I've seen them but don't know what they're like
another great video!!!
For dampers, just pick up some 3mm glow fuel tubing from the hobby shop and cut it into lengths required. Cheapest, and best dampers for this purpose IMHO , and you will have a lifetime supply with one $4 purchase.
+ArionRaine This seems like the best suggestion I have heard so far.
+ArionRaine I can´t seem to find 3mm anywhere, only 2.3mm. Isn´t that what you meant?
kubaistube
That would work. Or get 1/8inch, which is essentially 3mm. Make sure you get silicone tubing also!
+ArionRaine so will order this one right?
www.ebay.com/itm/2-3mm-3-32-I-D-Silicone-RC-Nitro-Glow-Engine-Fuel-Tubing-Hose-Pipe-Silicon-Tube-/261108962863?var=&hash=item3ccb4e962f:m:mhpPbFXaZEpW98jWAFskP_Q
kubaistube
Thats perfect.
Nice video - great info & insight as always. Noticed you're still on BF 2.4.1, any reason why you haven't gone to 2.6.x?
+David Martin I had strange gyro twitches and noped out of there. The copter flies great for me on 2.4.1. If it ain't broke...
Joshua Bardwell Interesting to hear. Wondering if that's 6500 related ? I found a big improvement going from 2.4 to 2.6. But like you said, if it ain't broke....
I have 6050.
OK... so its not that then. Would be interesting to see before & after Blackbox logs going from 2.4.1 to 2.6.1 with the same tune & similar flight path / conditions. By the way I can't get Jeremy Clarkson's voice out of my head when I see the best tuned copter "in the world" :)
Very well known in nitro rc planes. Go buy nitro rc gas line. It's cheap you can cut grommets of any size for days. They're perfect size for use as vibration grommets.
I just stumbled across this video and subscribed to your channel. Looks like good stuff. I've got a stupid question. You mention black neck, where can I get this?
"black neck"? I'm not sure what you mean.
+Joshua Bardwell Sorry, I wrote that from my Android and I guess it interpreted box as neck. I would like to know where I learn more about this Blackbox system you are using. A link to a website would suffice. Thanks.
Haha. No problem. github.com/cleanflight/cleanflight/blob/master/docs/Blackbox.md
+Joshua Bardwell So this only works on cleanflight then? I usually fly APM since it had an AutoTune feature to take care of the PID settings for me. I'm guessing think you get a better flying machine by tuning it yourself? How would you describe how your tuning results compare to AutoTune? Sorry but the title "The Best Tuned Quadcopter ... In The World" click baited me here.
I don't think Blackbox works on APM. Check out my video from today "Practical PID Tuning" for an example of what I do without Blackbox. I don't think autotune works very well personally but I have pretty specific goals for a tune.
Try the Cobra champions 2207 2450kv (old tech) I still fly those motors. still blows me away everytime i fly them. the BBB 2207 2650kv are almost as powerful just better efficiency. I only use 2207 so choices were slim.
you can also use the dampeners from helicopter rotor heads!! 😉
+mattyp80 Good suggestion!
+mattyp80 Can you post a link to buy such a thing?
There are some links elsewhere in the thread I think. Cut pieces of fuel tubing seem to have a good record, as well as shock kits for RC buggies.
Hey, very informative video, but Im still looking for help. I have Naze32 on 2200mAh 3s ZMR250 with 1806 2400kv motors, and whenever i give it more then 75% throttle it starts to fall to 1 sire, e.g. roll right, pitch foreward and yaw about 50 degrees to the left... What do I need to change to fix this? PIDs or something else? If its PID, which one do I need to lower? I already lowered P and got rid of most of the oscilation, but I´m still tuning. Thanks for help! - Oliver
Something is wrong with your frint right motor or ESC.
Joshua Bardwell hmm, now that you say that yes, I crashed it once and id was dirty, and since then sometimes it wont spin up when i arm it, so i have to arm and disarm several time before i can take off... what should I do? just replace motor? or when could be the problem there? or could this also be damaged ESC?
Swap the motor first. Then if that doesn't fix it, swap the ESC and keep the old motor as a spare
Couldn't you set up two pid profiles??
sorry, another question. Are you still using the yaw roll cam angle mixer?
+south02m Yes. I think it's at 22 degrees. I still feel like, for acro flight, it is a good choice for me. For racing, I might-could take it or leave it, since it's not too hard to coordinate turns manually. But coordinating snap-rolls and split-s maneuvers is hard to get smooth and consistent and I like using the uptilt compensation to help.
Hi Joshua, just I'm curious... which software do you use in order to mix camera video + blackbox data?
Thnks.
+Antoni Pons Oliver Blackbox Viewer can do it. Just open the video file using the same button you use to open the log file.
I use Nitro RC car fuel tube as vibe dampers on my FC Try it tighten the screws only enough to squish the fuel tube a bit The fuel tube acts like a nyloc nut keeping the screws from backing out
+Raptor21stoys I have also heard that aquarium silicone tubing can be good.
+Joshua Bardwell They are the same material but aquarium silicone tubing has a larger ID and the tube slips over M3 screw heads very easily. It also does not grip the M3 screws threads and the screws loosen often when using aquarium silicone tubing so you need to check it every few flights.
Nice tip. Thanks.
Ur vibration isolating setup; how do u know the plastic bolt threads arent touching the FC FCB? Iv dealt with vibration through fast spinning HDD arrays in servers and noisy external fuel pumps in street cars.It would be more ideal if u index out the hole in the corners of the PCB and then run a silicon insulator around that as well I M O .
+ATMO You're right, but the results ultimately speak for themselves. Huge improvement! Any time you take a Dremel to a PCB, there is a chance of damage, so it's just not worth it to me if it's not needed.
+Joshua Bardwell 100%, your before and after is most excellent
Small o rings look like they would make good dampeners
+Kevin French Worth a try. Just a question of whether they are hard or soft rubber.
Wow. On rails. Do you have a video talking about your expo? Seems you're ripping through these but your sticks barely move.
+Javier Sanchez the stick overlay is rcCommand which is after expo is applied. My sticks are moving more than you see. I think I typically ran about 0.65 expo.
Hi Josh. Does the video file have to be a certain type in Blackbox? I've uploaded the log file to blackbox explorer with the video file, but video file does not load. Video plays in wmp ok and it was recorder in Fatshark goggles. Cheers :)
Try passing the file through WinFF to convert it to mp4.
Joshua Bardwell
Yeah, that works as mp4 alright. Shame that Fatshark only save in AVI. Thanks Josh ;)
4:13 is that the buzzer directly soldered to the flight controller ?
+bing quadby Yes, sort of. The F303 doesn't have buzzer holes. Well, actually, the latest rev does, but mine doesn't. So I put the + pin of the buzzer through a spare 5v header, and run a wire to the - buzzer pad. I also use a small piece of foam tape to reinforce and vibration-isolate the buzzer.
Joshua Bardwell Is it ok to mount the buzzer directly to the FC, or should I worry about noise?
+Gouada definitely direct mount it if the board allows for it.
Joshua Bardwell Cool thanks just wanted to make sure that it wouldn't interfere with barometer/compass
You are good !
The best quadcopter, or any flying craft............... IN THE WORLD,
is the one you are flying. All the other ones are not flown by you at that moment.
You sound just like the guy from This American Life
Hey Joshua, what's the max rate the blackbox (external openlog) will handle with a decent sd-card, do you know ? 2 KHz possible ?
+Sindre In my experience, about 1 kHz with 1:1 logging. That's a very rough number that depends on exactly what you're logging. For example, if you're running iNav, you're logging a whole lot of additional variables. If you're running a 10DOF board vs. a 6DOF board, same thing.
+Sindre I think I could confidently state that 500 Hz would be absolutely safe assuming you are running 250 kBaud.
+Joshua Bardwell thanks mate. I got the latest fw and should hopefully get as good log performance as possible. Pure acro log. Just finished my 8 KHz build (I'm the same Sindre as just popped up in the BF thread). Just needed to know what kind of BB denom I need to use. I'll give that a go then. Never bothered with BB before but looks very useful.
If you're running raceflight at 8 kHz then I would start with a blackbox_rate_denom of 8.
If you're running betaflight, you need to take into account the pid_process_denominator as well. The blackbox logging rate is 8 kHz / pid_process_denominator / blackbox_rate_denom.
+Joshua Bardwell Currently I'm using BF. Still 8 then as pid_process_denominator is 1. That should then give a logging rate of 1 KHz. I'll try that and see what happens. Thanks again mate
What sampling rate setting do you use in for recording the blackbox log?
+fahrvergnuugen I shoot for about 1 kHz. If I'm running 2 kHz looptime, then I will set blackbox_rate_denom=2 or 3.
Out of interest did you use a custom motor mix for this tune?
+Stephen Gibb no. I don't think it's helpful on a flat rectangular quad.
why is youre roll rate set higher than pitch rate? normal its the pitch rate that needs slightly higher number to compensate the mass that is spread over the lenght of the frame
+Hans Turpyn That's just how I like it.
I don't think it's normal for pitch rate to have to be higher. Pitch P gain has to be higher to achieve the commanded angular rate. But the desired angular rate can be however you want.
+Joshua Bardwell if you like it than thats good :) but normaly on most frames the weight is spread in the lenght of the frame making the movement slower on the pitch. therefore some people set the rate on pitch slightly higher to compensate that and make the roll & pitch even.
+Joshua Bardwell and yes i know that the P on pitch mostly is a bit higher also do to the mass that is spread over the lenghth of the frame. but i am talking about the rates, but all in all. if you like it that way thats the most important. ;)
+Hans Turpyn I think you're confusing rate with P. As long as the copter is doing what you command, it will rotate at the commanded speed no matter what the axis.
+Relic FPV i am talking about the rates, not pids. i know what pids are and what they do :) lets say we take a zmr frame and give roll & pitch the same rates. now give full stick on these 2 axis, you will see that the pitch axis is alway a bit slower do to the mass that is spread over the lenghth make it more sluggish on that axis. thats also the reason that you need less P on roll, because its more agile on that axis and starts to oscillate with to hight P
is this the only video with no yellow border on the thumbnail lol
What is the logging rate in bb?
Why did you choose rewrite instead of mw23?
+south02m I have flown rewrite forever and I know exactly what rates I like from it. I like the strictly linear rates of rewrite and lux compared to the dynamic rates of MW2.3.
+south02m mw23 will be removed soon anyway. BTW Joshua I know you're stubborn about this but you should really be flying 2.6.x :)
I had weird gyro twitches on 2.6.1 that I didn't care to track down. They're not there on 2.4.1 with no changes necessary from me. The next copter I build will be 2.6.1, but for the time being. I'm staying on 2.4.1 for my QAV-R.
i use silicone glue to damp the motor )
I'm noticing a lot of "bounce back" in flips and rolls specifically in air mode. I tune the quad in rate, and get things right, but when I go into air mode I feel like there's a lot of bounce. Is this something you've dealt with?
+Levi Maston air mode should increase authority at low throttle. If turning on air mode makes bounce worse then I would guess your copter is over tuned. Excess P. Tune how you fly. Air mode on or off.
hi Mr engineer i'm a kind of nob i watch all ur vid and take advice i have a f303 v2 with dys xm20 and emax red bottoms 2300kv on an x frame i build can i send u the black box readings for u to look at please, i m really trying to get more ppl on my island to get in to drone racing im from trinidad and tobago google it if u dont know were that is
+leon roberts please submit to my Blackbox Log Video Responses thread on rcgroups.
+leon roberts please submit to my Blackbox Log Video Responses thread on rcgroups.
cut a little nitro fuel hose ijs
Actually my is tuned better :P in 10% zoom, just little bit, but in 100% I have straight lines :P
+Franek Dzbanek you win!
+Franek Dzbanek Now stop tuning and go fly already.
Yay, I won!
I've just corrected I and that's it :P I'm flying when I can :D
Best tune ever? Finalglides last video, by far, easily leaves every other tune behind wishing it was so smooth. No black box on kiss ESC?
+MicroRCFiend It's almost as if I intentionally made the title hyperbolically extreme for the purpose of entertainment.
Joshua Bardwell Fine line between click bait and 'entertainment'.
+MicroRCFiend I really hoped putting Jeremy Clarkson in the thumbnail would give it away. "... in the world" is his catch-phrase. Sorry the joke didn't land for you.
+MicroRCFiend FWIW, personally I feel like clickbait is purposely vague titles that are intended to suck you in, like, "10 weird tricks for better PID tuning. #6 had my jaw on the floor!" With this title, if you literally believe that I'm claiming to have the best tuned copter in the world, then I don't know what to say. I just don't see how you can take this title as anything except an exaggeration.
I said fine line, between, not that you crossed it. You just seem to be skating that line as close as possible when I feel your content is way above needing this.
It's just my opinion though, i'm not at all put out if you disagree. It's gutting to see awesome channels go spammy and impersonal because they are trying too hard to grow fast. I have nothing but respect for you and learn something every video, even this one. So please don't take my lack of tact and Yorkshire honesty as anything but what it is. I'm a touch blunt.
Those gyro lines look almost a coy of mine
www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=34588158&postcount=1543
Clarkson clickbait
I use these to vibration mount my board boltrc.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=1144&search=vibration
rc car o rings for vibration dampening
I've heard they help a bit, but also that they are too hard for optimal damping.
like to thank u soooo much your videos helped me out so much Be nice but first tine tune with blackbox betaflight .. After this noticed yaw p gain was a Lil high so dropped it 0.3 .. Tuned with bent props .. Now to see what it does with my new set lol..
th-cam.com/video/PtHOZkwRfdI/w-d-xo.html
10 people think they know better.
This video is wrong on so many levels. It's not how data should be used. You should watch requested vs delivered value and look ad P, I & D terms. Watch for overshoot and oscilation.
This video is 4 years old, practices on tuning have changed
5555 view ;)