It's not perfect, but in my humble opinion it's the best political system in the world. That doesn't mean that there aren't issues, but compared to other nations we're doing pretty well. Have a good one folks!
Of course it’s the best political system and model in the world. I’ve lived and worked in many countries around the globe, but there is nothing even near as the Nordics. PS. We all know that Stockholm is the capital of Scandinavia. 😅
Wish we would pursue more of the Nordic model here, it's noticeable across the water in Finland. We have elements, but are still working on and lacking in others. Greetings from Estonia.
Given the Estonian history, you are ahead of the curve. You have come far in a very short time. The Nordic countries had centuries to form the cultural mindset needed to 'invent' the model. You are doing it in less that a 100 years.
Greetings from a Danish citizen It is true what is said in the video, here in Denmark everyone is happy and here you are offered to come to the hospital and be screened to see if you are developing a form of cancer, and any subsequent treatment is also completely free you only have to show up if you have been summoned. One of my colleagues just got a new hip, and one of my 70-year-old neighbors just got a new knee, and of course it's also free here in Denmark because we have collectively paid for it through our taxes, which are high but very few complaints about. Here we happily help each other.
Compared to the USA, here a middle class family is better off in Denmark (the TH-cam channel “Travelling Young” has made a comparison of their finances - they are Americans living in Denmark). All things considered, with what they paid in the USA in private health insurance, tax, VAT, school fees and all the bad stuff, it was overall a few percent more expensive to live in the USA than in Denmark. And that was WITHOUT using the health system, such as a broken leg and medicine. For example, diabetes medicine. Whether the Nordic model could be used in the USA - perhaps if it is introduced over a couple of hundred years or more. Their distrust of their neighbor (and all state and municipal employees) is too high. Conversely, I see countries that already have much of what we have in the Nordic countries, which could undoubtedly introduce the rest of the things, without any major problems. Including most of the EU countries. Germany, the Netherlands just to name a few. Whether our model is better than theirs, I will not be the judge. for, but I am happy with the Danish model. Especially since I myself have an autoimmune disease which means a lot of treatment in hospitals and the use of a lot of medicine. Something that I am not to blame for myself, nor my parents. In other words, a bad luck that has just happened to me. If I had lived in the USA, with the medicine I use, the treatment I receive, I would have spent more than 1,200,000 USD on this alone, while I am not able to work (early retirement). I would have been one of the poor people we see living on the streets - through no fault of their own. The whole background to systems is probably also the idea, "I am happy to pay a little of my money to help others in need" - so basically a very Christian point of view - help your neighbor. In the USA you see a lot of charity - you have to do that to help those "we pay for in taxes". In the Nordic countries we just do not have a tradition of being able to bask in the company of friends like someone who has given a lot to charity - we pay our taxes with pleasure - instead.
They didn't include that VAT is way lower than moms. So equal spending money gives you quite a bit more buying power in USA than here in Denmark, as everyday goods are cheaper in the states.
Some excellent points. My experience of living in the U.S. is much along the same lines. So many great people there, but with a much lower quality of life than in the Nordics.
Hi. here in New Zealand we also run a system that has many similarities to the Nordic system with a similar outcome. Our taxes are not as high and our services are not as good but we are also happy and have very little corruption. American like to tout how wonderful their system is, we just hide our smile behind our hand and pity the ill-informed.
A very good video. I think you correctly emphasize the specific cultural norms that made this particular system possible. If you have an efficient, non-corrupt, public sector to help people out when they need it, that's going to be a plus. But that is much easier said than done.
Can confirm. The nearly 40% in Norway is if you are making over 180 000 USD or 2 000 000 NOK a year. The avrage is roughly 27.5% on >63 000 USD or 700 000NOK.
The median tax rate in Finland must be around 30%. Of course maximum VAT is 25,5% so taxes are high, but the income tax is nowhere near to what the video suggests.
they also don't explain high tax is only payed on what you earn above 94,000 dollars a year plus everybody have automatic deduction the average over all payed tax on income in Denmark is 34% total tax when you include income tax, vat, tarif's, tax on cars, housing, energy ect. is 55%
Today I heard a pretty strong utterance : It's not the oil that made Norge rich. If it were so-----Iran , Russia ,Venezuela would be paradises . Greetings from Lietuva Lithuania 🇱🇹.
As a nordic citizen this was very well put. Good info and I agree on all points. Those tax numbers however must be maximum numbers on income tax. On my above average wage I pay 32% and that's more than i need. (Tax return is just before vacation so I use it to get a guarateed vacation budget) 30% would be about enough. I do like the problems and limitation bit a lot. It gives perspective on why the US wouldn't be able to use the system as high level of trust in the state and other citizens are a must. Honestly makes me feel sad for them.
Myself, I love the Nordic welfare state with a balance in e.g. the labour market. Unfortunately, we now have a government that is hell bent on doing everything it can to make us a shitty US style economy.
Lol, you’ve got no idea what you’re talking about. Assuming fron your name, you’re talking about Finland? Isn’t the aim to copy or bring the older model towards the newer Danish and Swedish economic models, which function better on all categories. No country in Europe is close or getting closer to the US model.
Very interesting. But all is not well anymore. I live in Denmark. Private health insurance and private hospitals have been snuck into the health system. Those are ruining the equal access to health care. The ones who cannot afford private insurance are on the bottom of the barrel and suffer for it. It is all pretty rotten now, if you ask me. I don´t know how it is in the other Nordic countries, except for Iceland, which also has a very strained health care system.
In Sweden we've been voting right wing for the last 20 years and it's been eating our wellfare system, we now pay high taxes for private companies to funnel out of the country and our social safety nets are in total disarray, even schools are for profit. The right wing populist party, former nazi party, are the second largest party and are following the same template Hungary went through to dismantle communal learning and organizing, or Folkbildning, (as a dane tou know but Im sharing wider), and they are trying to undermine the unions directly alswell. The underpinning institutions that the people built for such a long time in Sweden have all lost their wider connection to the people and are in a mad dash to reestablish their roots in order to take back the country. Thats my take. Similar to Denmark, but not quite the same, if you want a tip, keep your eye on Folkbildningen and make sure it thrives.
it's not private insurance or private hospitals that have changed the public healthcare it's actually a help because they take some of the pressure and it's cheaper to send people on private hospitals for the state, the problem with the public system is to much regulation creating too much "paper" work, and and problem with getting enough staff, using employment agencies witch is much more expensive than hiring themselves, plus the staff using too much time with paper work
It sure is one important ingredient - just see the flags. There is an element of protest against all hierarchies in Christianity preached as "love thy neighbor as yourself", and Jesus message: I give you a new commandment above all others: love your fellowmen! This was read in the Bible in the language of the people, not in ancient Latin or Greek. The protestant churches also helped with widespread literacy. Schools become obligatory. Then literate workers could read about labour unions and strikes, and demand successful reforms as in other countries. And feminism spread with ever more education also for girls and women. Finland got universal and equal suffrage 1906, and women could become members of parliament, which was organised as one chamber only. Step by step many ideas were developed based on the first Christian congregations of which there are stories in the New Testament.Many social reforms were promoted with such values as a base. The Old Testament lost its last influence almost completely with the acceptance of women as Archbishops and leaders, instead the protestant churches have played important roles in social reforms that are at the core of what we call the welfare state, but the word *welfare* means fairness and equality for us, not condescending charity. Many also think general conscription for defense only, plays an important role for building trust and cohesion. And of course the only symbolic role of reformed monarchy in three of the countries in Norden.
We have some good systems, but I think it would break if we went into a new "Kalmar" (aka becoming a single nation with almost 30 million citizens). This is one of the reasons why New Zealand is hanging out with us as our dear antipode - similar size and homogeneity etc. As Norway and Denmark know, the idea of exporting any kind of "Western democracy" as a "gift from military presence" plus "all the money" is not necessarily successful as proven by the insanely naive Western nation-building project that happened after Afghanistan was initially "stabilized". We must remember that the Western idea of the modern national state took ca 300 years and pretty much continuous wars until 1945 to forge and that Sweden was not entirely unmotivated to assault Norway just 120 years ago (prevented largely by the Swedish people). My point is that for the 300 years, it took to establish the modern national state in Europe, Europe was more war-torn than most regions we can think of compared to Africa, the Middle East, Asia and South America today (even before we include a couple of World Wars to spice things up). Everyone should look at a timelapse of European borders over the past centuries and reflect on how much time and dead people it took to stabilise what we for odd reasons like to call the "old world". We Europeans should probably stop advising others quite as much with this in mind - especially when we consider how "fantastic and absolutely perfect" (/s) we handle a nation with the GDP of Italy going insane on one of our European family members while promising the rest of us to die by nuclear bombs every week. This said - we do see and observe our 5 independent nations continue to prioritize individually on details (as always) while standing on solid common Nordic ground on overarching perspectives. I think we should focus and build on the astonishing advantages we have, rather than trying to export the Nordic model around the world.
Nobody here is proponing a Kalmar union. The Kalmar union was an experiment in the past, where a monarchy tried to impose an European-styled centralized regime on fragmented lands with too large a land area and too little production, and then came into conflict with the fragmented local nobilities.
The Nordic model is hard to copy, we do have a homogenise population, only idiots like us would stand the cold winters, the silence, the wast empty space, ... except for Denmark, the environment is just too hostile, who else enjoy skiing and ice bathing?! Foreigners may survive in Denmark, Oslo, Stockholm, Helsinki, but rural Norway, Sweden, Finland, is next level wilderness and remote. I agree that low corruption level is a key for Nordic model, that is key to trust government programs and that they are able to use money well. Even so, I do think some other countries or states can do the same. In US, the middle class had a wonderful time in the 50s, if I remember correctly it was not until 80s, the US middle class squeeze started, the unions was destroyed and inequality between capital owners and workers, started growing much more. However, if media is controlling population with bias, non correct information, then an important pillar of democracy is gone, need free press and educate people well. If capitalistic or communist states control the press and media, how can democracy work? Selecting the best politicians, require the majority of the population to vote correct. One strong point in the Nordics, I would say is the education system and freedom of press, very highly educated population and quality of information and freedom of press and media, is high. Australia and New Zealand can do it, so can Canada and UK, same with Netherlands and Germany, Switzerland is already there, very strong democratic roots. US can too, it was actually US we in Norway copied when we made constitution in 1814, at the time, US had one of the most democratic constitutions in the world. They was ahead on so many things, it freakn took us 200 years to get same religious freedom as US had back then. US won over Japan and Germany in WW2, they provided framework for Western Europe to become democratic, they beat communism in the Cold War, but their own progress as democratic nation dropped behind Nordics, I don't know, but US middle class can become great again, they just need to understand they been squeezed for a long time and could have it much better. That takes knowledge and accepting they not the best at everything, which is kinda hard for the ego, lol Social programs was not special to the Nordics, post WW2 the allies had to show all the suffering of war wasn't for nothing. One reason the Nazi party did so well in Germany, was that they got the Germany economy going, build autobahn, got people working, stopped the hyper inflation. Big reason for Putin support in Russia, is the economy improvement after the fall of communism. The old rule apply for leaders, make people happy and if economy and social security is good, we accept a lot, including the tyranny of insane high tax. lol
It should be noted, that Denmark is doing it without the benefits of huge amounts of natural resources. It is a carefully balance system making sure the imports doesn't overwhelm the exports. Denmark found a few drops of oil, but otherwise it's farming and inventions that have driven the danish development for centuries. Everybody talk about the high taxes and VAT as a negative, but it is actually the very reason Denmark do have a high living standard. It's a way to balance the import to the export. Without it Denmark would have been run into the ground. It's also a way of securing a balance between private spending and public investments in infrastructure.
i get what you mean, we do have very good industry, being that we currently have the largest trade surplus in europe. But i would like to note we are the third largest oil producere in the EU. The other point i totally agree, VAT/MOMS is not a "tax" on the poor, if the earned money is what is given to those poor families.
@@pmaster1238 The reality is that our industry need to buy raw materials from others and our only income from that is the invention and design that we ad to it. What we produce is pharmaceuticals, wind turbines, design products, machinery, electronics and construction projects, all heavy on know-how and low in requirements for raw materials. It is true that right now we are the third largest oil producer in the EU, but what we have is a limited amount. The current estimate is that we run out around 2045-2055. It's also a somewhat false claim as neither Great Britain nor Norway are Part of the EU, so it really doesn't count all the much. Also we can't sustain that position for any length of time. With the current production we will see a drop in production around 2026-2027.
Transparency and lack of corruption is a constant vigilance. The Nordics nurse this societal gift. Trust is paramount. Trust in government and the necessary bureaucracy. Trust in our educational system which teach us to spot empty politicians. We've stopped throwing axes - we call the police - because we trust them. We are private - but we do talk to our neighbours - and help each other. And most of us have studied reality and found that it is Wednesday every day - and Valhalla is forever - so you behave - here and now‼A lucky Dane thanks you - Good luck to you all‼
The social contract is strong: you can call it "just high taxes and free health care," but this is what it is: the society protects you on condition that you protect the society. As for the cultural preconditions for creating a Nordic model anywhere else: yes. For example in South Korea, Taiwan. You need a novel system was based on the high esteem of solidarity and mutual aid, a negotiation culture, as well as mutual respect between the capital and labour unions. Where the capital has a sabotage culture of undermining the unions, you cannot create a Nordic welfare model, and the nation will be undermined in the long run by misdirected individuals within the capital sector. Also: dictatorships are a great deal mistrusted by the citizens. It is much harder to erect a Nordic model in former communist states, unless the people oust the communists and erect their own democratic system.
it looks quite close to the numbers for "Total government spending as percentage of GDP", it could be made clearer for sure what the numbers are and what year they represent or if its an average over time.
Yeah, I see places that list the personal income tax rate at 57% (like the one MilitaryRated linked), but if you dig deeper you'll realize this is actually the max tax rate, not the average. The average income tax rate were closer to 31.6% for Finland in 2023 according to OECD. I believe the other numbers are also based on erroneous numbers as Norway's average income tax is certainly not 40% either. The only number I found for Norway that correspond to the 40% were the max penalty of additional tax you may receive if you provide inaccurate or incomplete data on your tax return. The average income tax were 28.1% in 2023 according to OECD. Another fun fact is that in Norway you also only pay income tax for 10.5 months as opposed to 12 months, lol.
Gorbachev was a big fan of the Nordic Model and wanted to replace centralized planned economy, with its associated corruption, that was (is?) a big part of how hard core Socialism or Communism tends to play out. I think the "Nordic Model" more reflects the heritage of Social Democracy (still right of ideological center, using capitalism and socialism as a hard marker for the major economy, as that is the only thing that can be quantified), rather than the Neo-Liberal downward spiral we're now in (cons *and* pros). US SCOTUS 1976/78 had this "brilliant" idea to legalize political corruption in the name of "free speech"; the people haven't had representation since. Any and all legislation tends to work in the favor of big business and corporations that can afford the legislators. The country is now deeply rooted in fascism. And it was so long before Trump entered the stage, he just made it much more clearer, with even the end stage now being on the horizon. Nordics are headed there too, but at a much slower pace because security measures, at least so far, have a better chance of success.
As an Finnish person I facepalmed when I saw the video title because I thought that okay things aren't terrible here but things must be complete shit in other countries if they are not on our level
In Denmark we have a very high Labour Force Participation Rate of more than 74 percent, compared to less than 63 in countries like the US and UK. It means that we have 11 more people employed per 100 persons in the workforce. That is an important reason why Denmark is so rich and I think the same goes for the other nordic countries. The wellfare state and the high taxes makes it possible for most women to have wellpayed jobs. Tax paid child care and elder care makes it possible for most women to have a professional career,. They don't have to drop their career to take care of their children or parents, unless they want to. In return for investing in child care and elder care the society gets a huge boost in the workforce - and in the number of tax payers. Our universal health care and free education are other examples how we invest tax money in a big, healthy and well educated workforce. To us it is just common sense and has been for the last 60 years. That gives women the opportunity to have a 40 year carreer with a high wage, and the family has an extra income. That's worth paying some extra tax. We see it as a very smart investment in the workforce and as a pure economic winwin, and it is made possible not despite high taxes, but because of high taxes. By comparison, in many muslim countries, where women are not allowed to work outside their home, you see participation rates well below 50. It is no wonder that they are poor. High taxation is not an issue to most Danes. We and our politicians care about solving problems and getting things done. There is a very high degree of consensus about keeping the wellfare state, that has served us so well for the last 60 years.
The trust for the police in Sweden is just now low, mostly due of immigration from countries where the police were a part of the oppressing force, but also due to misinformation spread from Islamic countries that see Sweden as an enemy for Sweden's international work for equality and education.Bit also for there is a problem with violence now that have roots in Turkey and Spain with two or three organized crime groups being in conflict over the drug market and sex trafficking (often masked as Thi Massage) that now is more common than pizzerias.
😄 we're not perfect, we're like learning to ride a unicycle and has just figured out how to balance. Btw. If you're considered low income in Denmark, kindergarten is free. Edit 10:10 - yeah I trust the system quite a bit... even if an election doesn't turn out as I want it to, I know that it's not gonna turn the world upside-down... perhaps the fact that it doesn't take more than one vote majority in parliament, to overthrow the government and call for an election, may have an impact. Basically our politicians could find themselves unemployed in 4 weeks, we don't stick to fixed terms.
Not a perfect video (some of the data could benefited from a bit more research), but the arguments were still solid and true. :3 And yeah, a lot of people have a black and white perspective on the economy unfortunately. We're mixed economies that apply different ideologies on different sectors. The Nordics certainly are socialist if you look at the public service sectors (health care, welfare, and education), but we have a capitalist market economy and a liberal legislative and penitentiary system. I don't think any country has a pure single system when you look at all the sectors, but the US certainly tries to slap capitalism at every imaginable sector (which if anything have proven itself as a recipe for a corporatocracy). However, even the US have areas with a socialist structure and this includes their most celebrated institution: the military. If anything I would say that part of the Nordic models success is that we've managed to structure most sectors according to the political ideologies that harmonizes with and benefits those sectors the most.
Norwegian speaking about Norway here. I think we have passed our peak, the low unimployment rates is not as low. They have a different way of counting it, we have a really high number of people on the disability benefit. If we counted like most other countries the unimployment rate would be really high. We have alot of imigrants for good and bad, if you are a woman you have a higher chance of getting raped in a taxi then winning the lottery.. They have taxed the richest people out of the country, its better for a foreigner to own something in Norway. Politicians make "mistakes" that costs hundreds of millions and just get a slap on the wrist, the husband of our former prime minister trading stocks with very clearly inside information. We have corruption but are to nice/stupid to make them pay. Bureaucracy keeps growing, paracites draining everything. Electric cables to EU whith way to much capasity, selling electricity cheap to the german railway when the average person in our country have to pay marked price. I`m in something like homeguard/reserves now and we had a exercise resently, there was some higher ranking officers there and they had their own train and chefs cooking to them. Makes me sick if i met one of them I problaby could not hold my tongue and let them know what I think of them. To many officers in the Norwegian army, problaby more then soldiers. I`m pissed of on my country now as you might guess, It`s so unnecessary, we are rotten and if we don`t acknowledge that we will continue the downward spiral.
@@pabr2405 Nothing is perfect but one thing is for shure and that is we cant destroy what we have because we are not happy about things and then vote for some politicians who will destroy all we have, instead we have to make what we have better
@@Ikkeligeglad Rule of nature, nothing is perfect I agree. You problaby think I am going to vote frp, I never have voted frp and problaby never going to vote for them. The thing that annoys me is I always have to chose the lesser evil, but now i have come to a point where i problaby are going to vote blanc next election.
@@MilitaryRatedThere is another thing people never bring up, but it is one of the most important of them all. USA make claims they are all about freedom and sjit, however, they do not and i strees do not have political freedom. As far i am aware Denmark is about the only one with true free political systems. There are probably more but hear me out, in Dk for instance it is legal to form a communist part if you like, or a national socialistic party if this is your conviction. However, in nations like US and Swiss for that matter that is illegal and on it goes for most nations. In DK you can form what ever political party you want as long as it does not encourage violence.
It's not perfect, but in my humble opinion it's the best political system in the world. That doesn't mean that there aren't issues, but compared to other nations we're doing pretty well. Have a good one folks!
Of course it’s the best political system and model in the world. I’ve lived and worked in many countries around the globe, but there is nothing even near as the Nordics.
PS. We all know that Stockholm is the capital of Scandinavia. 😅
@@__Aurora__ Who is "we"?
Naa it should be the oldest of the nordic that is big enough
@@Ikkeligeglad
Well, Birka is not big enough these days. 😄
@@__Aurora__ Ribe in southern jutland is founded in the 700th hundred
🤨
Birka is how old?
@@__Aurora__ If you want a bigger then we can take Aarhus(Aros) from 900
Or Roskilde from 980
Wish we would pursue more of the Nordic model here, it's noticeable across the water in Finland. We have elements, but are still working on and lacking in others. Greetings from Estonia.
Given the Estonian history, you are ahead of the curve. You have come far in a very short time. The Nordic countries had centuries to form the cultural mindset needed to 'invent' the model. You are doing it in less that a 100 years.
Greetings from a Danish citizen
It is true what is said in the video, here in Denmark everyone is happy and here you are offered to come to the hospital and be screened to see if you are developing a form of cancer, and any subsequent treatment is also completely free you only have to show up if you have been summoned.
One of my colleagues just got a new hip, and one of my 70-year-old neighbors just got a new knee, and of course it's also free here in Denmark because we have collectively paid for it through our taxes, which are high but very few complaints about.
Here we happily help each other.
More or less
it's not free we pay by tax
@@veronicajensen7690 "because we have collectively paid for it through our taxes" Maybe read, before u start that petty stuff
The system is also generally slow and long wait times are common.
Try the UK or the US if you think we have bad wait times. It's all about perspective..
Compared to the USA, here a middle class family is better off in Denmark (the TH-cam channel “Travelling Young” has made a comparison of their finances - they are Americans living in Denmark). All things considered, with what they paid in the USA in private health insurance, tax, VAT, school fees and all the bad stuff, it was overall a few percent more expensive to live in the USA than in Denmark. And that was WITHOUT using the health system, such as a broken leg and medicine. For example, diabetes medicine.
Whether the Nordic model could be used in the USA - perhaps if it is introduced over a couple of hundred years or more. Their distrust of their neighbor (and all state and municipal employees) is too high. Conversely, I see countries that already have much of what we have in the Nordic countries, which could undoubtedly introduce the rest of the things, without any major problems. Including most of the EU countries. Germany, the Netherlands just to name a few. Whether our model is better than theirs, I will not be the judge. for, but I am happy with the Danish model. Especially since I myself have an autoimmune disease which means a lot of treatment in hospitals and the use of a lot of medicine. Something that I am not to blame for myself, nor my parents. In other words, a bad luck that has just happened to me. If I had lived in the USA, with the medicine I use, the treatment I receive, I would have spent more than 1,200,000 USD on this alone, while I am not able to work (early retirement). I would have been one of the poor people we see living on the streets - through no fault of their own.
The whole background to systems is probably also the idea, "I am happy to pay a little of my money to help others in need" - so basically a very Christian point of view - help your neighbor.
In the USA you see a lot of charity - you have to do that to help those "we pay for in taxes". In the Nordic countries we just do not have a tradition of being able to bask in the company of friends like someone who has given a lot to charity - we pay our taxes with pleasure - instead.
They didn't include that VAT is way lower than moms. So equal spending money gives you quite a bit more buying power in USA than here in Denmark, as everyday goods are cheaper in the states.
@@tobimobiv1 You need to visit the US, because prices aren't cheaper, only a few products are and they're all in the very unhealthy group.
Some excellent points. My experience of living in the U.S. is much along the same lines. So many great people there, but with a much lower quality of life than in the Nordics.
@@tobimobiv1 Is this also taking into account how much money people have at disposal? Salaries and other factors affect that.
@@tobimobiv1 vat is moms it can be diff. levels ,they did actually speak about buying power
Hi. here in New Zealand we also run a system that has many similarities to the Nordic system with a similar outcome. Our taxes are not as high and our services are not as good but we are also happy and have very little corruption. American like to tout how wonderful their system is, we just hide our smile behind our hand and pity the ill-informed.
Yeah we kinda view New Zealand as our six nordic brother though it has been misplaced in the south.
Not perfect, but very very good,, 🇸🇪💞🇩🇰💞🇫🇮💞🇮🇸💞🇳🇴
Cheers from Sweden to all my beloved siblings,, ☕🥰🍰
Agreed! Have a great evening!
@@MilitaryRated ❣🙏❣
Skål🍻
@@Ikkeligeglad ❣🙏❣
Lots of love from Norway❤
A very good video. I think you correctly emphasize the specific cultural norms that made this particular system possible.
If you have an efficient, non-corrupt, public sector to help people out when they need it, that's going to be a plus. But that is much easier said than done.
The tax numbers shown is for top tax (for the wealthy) average tax in Denmark is 37%
Can confirm. The nearly 40% in Norway is if you are making over 180 000 USD or 2 000 000 NOK a year. The avrage is roughly 27.5% on >63 000 USD or 700 000NOK.
The median tax rate in Finland must be around 30%. Of course maximum VAT is 25,5% so taxes are high, but the income tax is nowhere near to what the video suggests.
they also don't explain high tax is only payed on what you earn above 94,000 dollars a year plus everybody have automatic deduction the average over all payed tax on income in Denmark is 34% total tax when you include income tax, vat, tarif's, tax on cars, housing, energy ect. is 55%
And the maximum tax (for the top level income that over a certain value) is 53%.
In DK VAT is 25% and medium tax 37%. In total that gives 50% taxation.
Today I heard a pretty strong utterance : It's not the oil that made Norge rich. If it were so-----Iran , Russia ,Venezuela would be paradises . Greetings from Lietuva Lithuania 🇱🇹.
You did a good job in explaining the pros and cons of the Nordic model. Thanks for a great channal.
Glad you liked it Hans! Have a good weekend!
As a nordic citizen this was very well put. Good info and I agree on all points. Those tax numbers however must be maximum numbers on income tax. On my above average wage I pay 32% and that's more than i need. (Tax return is just before vacation so I use it to get a guarateed vacation budget) 30% would be about enough.
I do like the problems and limitation bit a lot. It gives perspective on why the US wouldn't be able to use the system as high level of trust in the state and other citizens are a must. Honestly makes me feel sad for them.
Often there might be employer taxes on your salary as well, that technically are taxes on you salary, but something you never think about.
@@Mosern1977 might be those. I would like to know how they calculated that number.
Universal health care is implemented in all developed countries except USA, where it is also implemented for children and retirees.
I really enjoy your well researched and well presented videos. Thanks!
Glad you like them brother. Have a great weekend!
Myself, I love the Nordic welfare state with a balance in e.g. the labour market.
Unfortunately, we now have a government that is hell bent on doing everything it can to make us a shitty US style economy.
Well seen!
Lol, you’ve got no idea what you’re talking about. Assuming fron your name, you’re talking about Finland? Isn’t the aim to copy or bring the older model towards the newer Danish and Swedish economic models, which function better on all categories. No country in Europe is close or getting closer to the US model.
Very interesting. But all is not well anymore. I live in Denmark. Private health insurance and private hospitals have been snuck into the health system. Those are ruining the equal access to health care. The ones who cannot afford private insurance are on the bottom of the barrel and suffer for it. It is all pretty rotten now, if you ask me.
I don´t know how it is in the other Nordic countries, except for Iceland, which also has a very strained health care system.
In Sweden we've been voting right wing for the last 20 years and it's been eating our wellfare system, we now pay high taxes for private companies to funnel out of the country and our social safety nets are in total disarray, even schools are for profit.
The right wing populist party, former nazi party, are the second largest party and are following the same template Hungary went through to dismantle communal learning and organizing, or Folkbildning, (as a dane tou know but Im sharing wider), and they are trying to undermine the unions directly alswell.
The underpinning institutions that the people built for such a long time in Sweden have all lost their wider connection to the people and are in a mad dash to reestablish their roots in order to take back the country.
Thats my take. Similar to Denmark, but not quite the same, if you want a tip, keep your eye on Folkbildningen and make sure it thrives.
it's not private insurance or private hospitals that have changed the public healthcare it's actually a help because they take some of the pressure and it's cheaper to send people on private hospitals for the state, the problem with the public system is to much regulation creating too much "paper" work, and and problem with getting enough staff, using employment agencies witch is much more expensive than hiring themselves, plus the staff using too much time with paper work
Would be interesting to see if one could make an argument for saying that the idea behind everything simply was protestantism.
It sure is one important ingredient - just see the flags. There is an element of protest against all hierarchies in Christianity preached as "love thy neighbor as yourself", and Jesus message: I give you a new commandment above all others: love your fellowmen!
This was read in the Bible in the language of the people, not in ancient Latin or Greek. The protestant churches also helped with widespread literacy.
Schools become obligatory. Then literate workers could read about labour unions and strikes, and demand successful reforms as in other countries. And feminism spread with ever more education also for girls and women. Finland got universal and equal suffrage 1906, and women could become members of parliament, which was organised as one chamber only.
Step by step many ideas were developed based on the first Christian congregations of which there are stories in the New Testament.Many social reforms were promoted with such values as a base. The Old Testament lost its last influence almost completely with the acceptance of women as Archbishops and leaders, instead the protestant churches have played important roles in social reforms that are at the core of what we call the welfare state, but the word *welfare* means fairness and equality for us, not condescending charity. Many also think general conscription for defense only, plays an important role for building trust and cohesion. And of course the only symbolic role of reformed monarchy in three of the countries in Norden.
5:08 Nice old footage of Kavaljersporten in Kalmar, Sweden, built in 1697 as a part of the Kvarnholmen defence wall.
Well spotted! 👍
We have some good systems, but I think it would break if we went into a new "Kalmar" (aka becoming a single nation with almost 30 million citizens). This is one of the reasons why New Zealand is hanging out with us as our dear antipode - similar size and homogeneity etc. As Norway and Denmark know, the idea of exporting any kind of "Western democracy" as a "gift from military presence" plus "all the money" is not necessarily successful as proven by the insanely naive Western nation-building project that happened after Afghanistan was initially "stabilized".
We must remember that the Western idea of the modern national state took ca 300 years and pretty much continuous wars until 1945 to forge and that Sweden was not entirely unmotivated to assault Norway just 120 years ago (prevented largely by the Swedish people).
My point is that for the 300 years, it took to establish the modern national state in Europe, Europe was more war-torn than most regions we can think of compared to Africa, the Middle East, Asia and South America today (even before we include a couple of World Wars to spice things up). Everyone should look at a timelapse of European borders over the past centuries and reflect on how much time and dead people it took to stabilise what we for odd reasons like to call the "old world".
We Europeans should probably stop advising others quite as much with this in mind - especially when we consider how "fantastic and absolutely perfect" (/s) we handle a nation with the GDP of Italy going insane on one of our European family members while promising the rest of us to die by nuclear bombs every week.
This said - we do see and observe our 5 independent nations continue to prioritize individually on details (as always) while standing on solid common Nordic ground on overarching perspectives. I think we should focus and build on the astonishing advantages we have, rather than trying to export the Nordic model around the world.
Nobody here is proponing a Kalmar union. The Kalmar union was an experiment in the past, where a monarchy tried to impose an European-styled centralized regime on fragmented lands with too large a land area and too little production, and then came into conflict with the fragmented local nobilities.
The Nordic model is hard to copy, we do have a homogenise population, only idiots like us would stand the cold winters, the silence, the wast empty space, ... except for Denmark, the environment is just too hostile, who else enjoy skiing and ice bathing?! Foreigners may survive in Denmark, Oslo, Stockholm, Helsinki, but rural Norway, Sweden, Finland, is next level wilderness and remote. I agree that low corruption level is a key for Nordic model, that is key to trust government programs and that they are able to use money well.
Even so, I do think some other countries or states can do the same. In US, the middle class had a wonderful time in the 50s, if I remember correctly it was not until 80s, the US middle class squeeze started, the unions was destroyed and inequality between capital owners and workers, started growing much more. However, if media is controlling population with bias, non correct information, then an important pillar of democracy is gone, need free press and educate people well. If capitalistic or communist states control the press and media, how can democracy work? Selecting the best politicians, require the majority of the population to vote correct. One strong point in the Nordics, I would say is the education system and freedom of press, very highly educated population and quality of information and freedom of press and media, is high. Australia and New Zealand can do it, so can Canada and UK, same with Netherlands and Germany, Switzerland is already there, very strong democratic roots. US can too, it was actually US we in Norway copied when we made constitution in 1814, at the time, US had one of the most democratic constitutions in the world. They was ahead on so many things, it freakn took us 200 years to get same religious freedom as US had back then. US won over Japan and Germany in WW2, they provided framework for Western Europe to become democratic, they beat communism in the Cold War, but their own progress as democratic nation dropped behind Nordics, I don't know, but US middle class can become great again, they just need to understand they been squeezed for a long time and could have it much better. That takes knowledge and accepting they not the best at everything, which is kinda hard for the ego, lol
Social programs was not special to the Nordics, post WW2 the allies had to show all the suffering of war wasn't for nothing. One reason the Nazi party did so well in Germany, was that they got the Germany economy going, build autobahn, got people working, stopped the hyper inflation. Big reason for Putin support in Russia, is the economy improvement after the fall of communism. The old rule apply for leaders, make people happy and if economy and social security is good, we accept a lot, including the tyranny of insane high tax. lol
It should be noted, that Denmark is doing it without the benefits of huge amounts of natural resources. It is a carefully balance system making sure the imports doesn't overwhelm the exports.
Denmark found a few drops of oil, but otherwise it's farming and inventions that have driven the danish development for centuries.
Everybody talk about the high taxes and VAT as a negative, but it is actually the very reason Denmark do have a high living standard. It's a way to balance the import to the export. Without it Denmark would have been run into the ground. It's also a way of securing a balance between private spending and public investments in infrastructure.
i get what you mean, we do have very good industry, being that we currently have the largest trade surplus in europe.
But i would like to note we are the third largest oil producere in the EU.
The other point i totally agree, VAT/MOMS is not a "tax" on the poor, if the earned money is what is given to those poor families.
@@pmaster1238 The reality is that our industry need to buy raw materials from others and our only income from that is the invention and design that we ad to it. What we produce is pharmaceuticals, wind turbines, design products, machinery, electronics and construction projects, all heavy on know-how and low in requirements for raw materials.
It is true that right now we are the third largest oil producer in the EU, but what we have is a limited amount. The current estimate is that we run out around 2045-2055. It's also a somewhat false claim as neither Great Britain nor Norway are Part of the EU, so it really doesn't count all the much. Also we can't sustain that position for any length of time. With the current production we will see a drop in production around 2026-2027.
Transparency and lack of corruption is a constant vigilance. The Nordics nurse this societal gift. Trust is paramount.
Trust in government and the necessary bureaucracy. Trust in our educational system which teach us to spot empty politicians.
We've stopped throwing axes - we call the police - because we trust them. We are private - but we do talk to our neighbours - and help each other.
And most of us have studied reality and found that it is Wednesday every day - and Valhalla is forever - so you behave - here and now‼A lucky Dane thanks you - Good luck to you all‼
The social contract is strong: you can call it "just high taxes and free health care," but this is what it is: the society protects you on condition that you protect the society. As for the cultural preconditions for creating a Nordic model anywhere else: yes. For example in South Korea, Taiwan. You need a novel system was based on the high esteem of solidarity and mutual aid, a negotiation culture, as well as mutual respect between the capital and labour unions. Where the capital has a sabotage culture of undermining the unions, you cannot create a Nordic welfare model, and the nation will be undermined in the long run by misdirected individuals within the capital sector. Also: dictatorships are a great deal mistrusted by the citizens. It is much harder to erect a Nordic model in former communist states, unless the people oust the communists and erect their own democratic system.
Okay, I have to already wonder about the numbers at 1:30. In Finland, taxation absolutely isn't 57 % on average. Where have you gotten those numbers?
tradingeconomics.com/finland/personal-income-tax-rate When you add it all up, it's a quite high number.
it looks quite close to the numbers for "Total government spending as percentage of GDP", it could be made clearer for sure what the numbers are and what year they represent or if its an average over time.
@@AndreasLarsson-vo3om Yeah, but that is not the average personal tax rate someone pays, is it? It is not even close to the real thing.
@@MilitaryRated That is a shitty source, and doesn't say what is the "personal income tax rate", does it?
Yeah, I see places that list the personal income tax rate at 57% (like the one MilitaryRated linked), but if you dig deeper you'll realize this is actually the max tax rate, not the average. The average income tax rate were closer to 31.6% for Finland in 2023 according to OECD.
I believe the other numbers are also based on erroneous numbers as Norway's average income tax is certainly not 40% either. The only number I found for Norway that correspond to the 40% were the max penalty of additional tax you may receive if you provide inaccurate or incomplete data on your tax return. The average income tax were 28.1% in 2023 according to OECD. Another fun fact is that in Norway you also only pay income tax for 10.5 months as opposed to 12 months, lol.
Gorbachev was a big fan of the Nordic Model and wanted to replace centralized planned economy, with its associated corruption, that was (is?) a big part of how hard core Socialism or Communism tends to play out. I think the "Nordic Model" more reflects the heritage of Social Democracy (still right of ideological center, using capitalism and socialism as a hard marker for the major economy, as that is the only thing that can be quantified), rather than the Neo-Liberal downward spiral we're now in (cons *and* pros).
US SCOTUS 1976/78 had this "brilliant" idea to legalize political corruption in the name of "free speech"; the people haven't had representation since. Any and all legislation tends to work in the favor of big business and corporations that can afford the legislators. The country is now deeply rooted in fascism. And it was so long before Trump entered the stage, he just made it much more clearer, with even the end stage now being on the horizon. Nordics are headed there too, but at a much slower pace because security measures, at least so far, have a better chance of success.
As an Finnish person I facepalmed when I saw the video title because I thought that okay things aren't terrible here but things must be complete shit in other countries if they are not on our level
It’s a combination of the two.
It's communist propaganda this video. The Nordic "welfare state" has been dead for long. All the Nordic countries are moving away from it.
have you ever left Finland?
@fredrikgrunditz7600 not for long periods of time
Here was me looking forward to seeing beautiful young women. The Nordics are managing well compared to many others.
52% if you are eaning much, my tax are 25.6% sweden
In Denmark we have a very high Labour Force Participation Rate of more than 74 percent, compared to less than 63 in countries like the US and UK. It means that we have 11 more people employed per 100 persons in the workforce.
That is an important reason why Denmark is so rich and I think the same goes for the other nordic countries.
The wellfare state and the high taxes makes it possible for most women to have wellpayed jobs. Tax paid child care and elder care makes it possible for most women to have a professional career,. They don't have to drop their career to take care of their children or parents, unless they want to.
In return for investing in child care and elder care the society gets a huge boost in the workforce - and in the number of tax payers.
Our universal health care and free education are other examples how we invest tax money in a big, healthy and well educated workforce. To us it is just common sense and has been for the last 60 years.
That gives women the opportunity to have a 40 year carreer with a high wage, and the family has an extra income. That's worth paying some extra tax.
We see it as a very smart investment in the workforce and as a pure economic winwin, and it is made possible not despite high taxes, but because of high taxes.
By comparison, in many muslim countries, where women are not allowed to work outside their home, you see participation rates well below 50. It is no wonder that they are poor.
High taxation is not an issue to most Danes. We and our politicians care about solving problems and getting things done. There is a very high degree of consensus about keeping the wellfare state, that has served us so well for the last 60 years.
The trust for the police in Sweden is just now low, mostly due of immigration from countries where the police were a part of the oppressing force, but also due to misinformation spread from Islamic countries that see Sweden as an enemy for Sweden's international work for equality and education.Bit also for there is a problem with violence now that have roots in Turkey and Spain with two or three organized crime groups being in conflict over the drug market and sex trafficking (often masked as Thi Massage) that now is more common than pizzerias.
EXCELLENT!
😄 we're not perfect, we're like learning to ride a unicycle and has just figured out how to balance.
Btw. If you're considered low income in Denmark, kindergarten is free.
Edit 10:10 - yeah I trust the system quite a bit... even if an election doesn't turn out as I want it to, I know that it's not gonna turn the world upside-down... perhaps the fact that it doesn't take more than one vote majority in parliament, to overthrow the government and call for an election, may have an impact. Basically our politicians could find themselves unemployed in 4 weeks, we don't stick to fixed terms.
Not a perfect video (some of the data could benefited from a bit more research), but the arguments were still solid and true. :3
And yeah, a lot of people have a black and white perspective on the economy unfortunately. We're mixed economies that apply different ideologies on different sectors. The Nordics certainly are socialist if you look at the public service sectors (health care, welfare, and education), but we have a capitalist market economy and a liberal legislative and penitentiary system. I don't think any country has a pure single system when you look at all the sectors, but the US certainly tries to slap capitalism at every imaginable sector (which if anything have proven itself as a recipe for a corporatocracy). However, even the US have areas with a socialist structure and this includes their most celebrated institution: the military. If anything I would say that part of the Nordic models success is that we've managed to structure most sectors according to the political ideologies that harmonizes with and benefits those sectors the most.
Best place. Kinda better than Iran, Somalia and ruzzia.
Norwegian speaking about Norway here. I think we have passed our peak, the low unimployment rates is not as low. They have a different way of counting it, we have a really high number of people on the disability benefit. If we counted like most other countries the unimployment rate would be really high. We have alot of imigrants for good and bad, if you are a woman you have a higher chance of getting raped in a taxi then winning the lottery..
They have taxed the richest people out of the country, its better for a foreigner to own something in Norway. Politicians make "mistakes" that costs hundreds of millions and just get a slap on the wrist, the husband of our former prime minister trading stocks with very clearly inside information. We have corruption but are to nice/stupid to make them pay.
Bureaucracy keeps growing, paracites draining everything. Electric cables to EU whith way to much capasity, selling electricity cheap to the german railway when the average person in our country have to pay marked price.
I`m in something like homeguard/reserves now and we had a exercise resently, there was some higher ranking officers there and they had their own train and chefs cooking to them. Makes me sick if i met one of them I problaby could not hold my tongue and let them know what I think of them. To many officers in the Norwegian army, problaby more then soldiers.
I`m pissed of on my country now as you might guess, It`s so unnecessary, we are rotten and if we don`t acknowledge that we will continue the downward spiral.
Do you only focus on the bad things in life and your country?
@@Ikkeligeglad Not at all I have a good life, I just think we are going backwards and this painted a little rosy picture of the situation.
the politicians called it cultural enrichment but its sad it ended this way
@@pabr2405 Nothing is perfect but one thing is for shure and that is we cant destroy what we have because we are not happy about things and then vote for some politicians who will destroy all we have, instead we have to make what we have better
@@Ikkeligeglad Rule of nature, nothing is perfect I agree. You problaby think I am going to vote frp, I never have voted frp and problaby never going to vote for them. The thing that annoys me is I always have to chose the lesser evil, but now i have come to a point where i problaby are going to vote blanc next election.
As a swiss I have to say: the nordics are doing okay, but there is still room for improvement. And we are more than willing to educate 😀
Not even close on the happiness rankings 😉
Go ahead!
You only make watches....😂
@@MilitaryRatedThere is another thing people never bring up, but it is one of the most important of them all. USA make claims they are all about freedom and sjit, however, they do not and i strees do not have political freedom. As far i am aware Denmark is about the only one with true free political systems. There are probably more but hear me out, in Dk for instance it is legal to form a communist part if you like, or a national socialistic party if this is your conviction. However, in nations like US and Swiss for that matter that is illegal and on it goes for most nations.
In DK you can form what ever political party you want as long as it does not encourage violence.
The shipyard industry needs advice... We look forward to hearing from you...🤔