Ghost in the Shell - Renegade Cut
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ธ.ค. 2016
- An analysis of the philosophical themes in Ghost in the Shell. Support Renegade Cut Media through Patreon. / renegadecut
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Please watch: "Thor Ragnarok - Colonialism in Asgard | Renegade Cut"
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The nitpicker in me forces me to point out a slight error in the synopsis: the Puppetmaster already has a Ghost when he encounters the Major. That's what tips Section 9 off that something strange is going on, that an empty cyborg shell somehow produces an intact Ghost-line, which should only be possible for human brains, and it causes the Major to question her own humanity.
The Puppetmaster wants to merge with the Major because he views himself as an incomplete life form, incapable of producing descendants as anything other than copies of himself. He needs to merge with a human consciousness to achieve ability to evolve beyond the artificial restraints that he was born with.
*****
Ehh, the way you phrase it in the introduction you make it kind of sound like that. I know, ambiguous phrasing, but when you say "Puppetmaster wants to merge with a Ghost", it sounds like the Puppetmaster doesn't have a Ghost and wants one.
9:55 It becomes obvious what he means here.
Haffu Paffu True, the introduction is the misleading bit.
I love this movie so much .. Yet I'm envious of your ability to get so much more philosophical input by this movie than I do. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this masterpiece!
I actually gasped when I saw this.
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Along with Anime everyday's video two years ago, thank you for doing an analysis on this. :)
This was great! I've been getting back into GITS and I think your analysis was one of the simplest and best I've seen on YT. Thanks!
Oh how I loved this movie. Still do
Great analysis of my favorite animated movie! I don't have high hopes for the live-action Ghost in the Shell releasing next year, but we will always have this classic.
I wish they went with the "laughing man" story instead. that way it could be more of a police story instead of a remake of an animated film which was based on blade runner which was based on a book.
They aren't remaking the movie - they are doing Kuze from 2nd GIG with a story that is taking elements from the manga, movie and Arise. Interesting choice for villain imo but I agree Laughing Man would be dope.
The Laughing Man wouldn't work well on film. His story is best suited for a TV show. The same applies to Kuze, actually, but I'm assuming that the film is greatly simplifying the story, and only keeping the bare bones of his inhuman charisma and his past connection to the Major, rather than involving all the morally gray struggle of extremist factions into the mix.
But you just couldn't do the same with the Laughing Man. The buildup, the questions of if he's even real, and eventually showing him a relatively innocuous activist who unwittingly started a meme that took a life of its own. It's too central to his character to simplify all that much, and it would end up too rushed, even anticlimactic, in film format.
Lightice1 The movie isnt a Ghost in the Shell story. Its a dystopia story about a woman who is made into a cyborg (probably secretly by force since "everything they told you is a lie"). And the story is about finding her humanity by remembering what her life was before being made into "The Major" by the Eviiiil Government. Bonus points if Kuze is secretly her husband from before and that's his motivation behind everything.
ive been waiting for this episode forever! Great analysis Leon!
I think that no matter what that thing is, if it fears death or loneliness based on this subject, the least we can do before our matter & energies transcend & expire is to be kind to those things. All we know is how we personally feel, envying & pitying something like a cell or a computer for not having to suffer as we do over our existence. If any sort of thing that interacts with me shares that suffering, I want to help them belong before the end comes for them. They'll always have a special place in my heart.
This was the first anine movie I fell in love with, even the various GITS TV shows. ❤
When you were discussing identity and whether the replacement of physical self leads to a new self I could not help but think of the ship of Theseus. I had never before considered the vessel of physical self to be like this ship but its an interesting dilemma nonetheless. If we replace parts as we go along, can we truly say we are the same and I think this goes not just for the body but also the mind. To expand I think this applies also to a mental state; memory is fickle and fleeting and so as we go through our lives and our brain matures and foundations of personality are established are we not a mentally evolving entity and hence never quite the same one moment to the next?
Yes. But everyone would agree, that no matter how many parts of the ship/body/mind are replaced, there is still something that characterized the person as "us". To the outside, to other people, we are still this one person and have not suddenly changed this.
Amazing video. As always I find myself not just enojoying but actually learning new things, and for that, I thank you
A bit specific, but the cut from batou swinging his arm over kusanagi before the hail of bullets into the bubbles rising from the major in the sea really hit me. Thanks for good video, I guess
10:03 There is no real world parallel to this science fiction scenario
Raising a child? Two minds shape the third which is half and half of the bodies? There is no direct analogy, but it was very obvious to me(perhaps wrongfully so)that that what Oshi intended to say
Your discussion of body theory around the 6 minute mark ties in well with your video in The Fly, and is a good expansion on it when you get into memory theory. Its really interesting how sci fi tends to be the genre that brings up these philosophical questions. Also I just love how you explain it - I personally have a hard time understanding the ideas of personhood and identity, but the way you explain it helps :p
Great vid, nice to see a movie I like and philosophy we had in school in one essay.
Haven't seen this movie in nearly 20yrs will be great to watch this again albeit with the eyes of an adult as many of the concepts were over my head as a naive 12 yr old, @renegade cut thanks for the work you put in; my brother and I always end up debating after one of your vids
Nicely done.
great analysis. one of my favorite movies
That was a very enriching primer on personhood. Thanks.
Interesting video Leon. I'll have to check this movie out.
Excellent
Great video!
It would also be great to see you analyze Angel's Egg, another movie by the same director. In my opinion, a masterpiece.
This may seem random given the subject of the video, but would you ever consider doing a Cronenberg month? I would suggest doing it in October, seeing as he is one of the masters of horror.
Suggestions:
The Brood
Videodrome
Naked Lunch
eXistenZ
Eastern Promises
Cosmopolis
Renegade Cut Of course, sorry for bothering you. As long as you keep making great content, it really does not matter.
identity is reflection of presence in all forms present
Outstanding, as always. Haven't watched your stuff for quite some time, is this the first you you show these "Bullet Points" in text form in your video? If yes, keep on doing that. It works incredibly well!
In a way there may be a bit of a real world scenario with body/mind merging since some folks who have had body part transplants like he heart were reported as starting to develop habits and traits similar to that of their donor but that may just be hearsay more than anything since they could have just heard about something their donor did and be subconsciously compelled to do it not because of the limb but maybe a desire to be closer to the person who helped save their life.
I'm back. This is not a request, but I wonder if this peeked your interest enough to watch SAC, which Johnny and Austin mentioned in Word Funk and I recommend wholeheartedly.There is a parallel between the merging of Kusanagi and the Puppet Master, made more apparent by the themes of the original manga, though touched upon the movie, which is the offspring in reproduction. You probably understood that, as the Puppet Master went in depth about genes, diversity and how it makes a system more resistant to a catastrophe that could wipe everything... but yeah, as it pertains to a person merging with an AI, we would all feel uncertain and scared.
It does worry me that the Hollywood take on it will be about being special, the typical superhero complex, when as you pointed out, GITS is a lot about the question of us being very unspecial and that being ok.
Apart from the mind-body problem, a lot of religious and metaphysical concepts, many from shintoism though using some symbols from christianity for universallity's sake, it also debates itself between ideas of literal gods from the machines, with this "angelic representation" of the Puppet Master descending upon the Major, and she reacting to it like one does an epiphany... and also the supposed sanctity of souls, which in the "extended universe" of the manga, this movie's sequel and SAC, ghosts, though analogous to software, cannot be copied without degradation. It's also a future in which diversity is key, as pure humans like Togusa have a place in it, and where reproduction isn't the only way to leave a legacy but the memes (not dank memes XD), the image and memories of us that others take with them.
To me GITS stands out among cyberpunk works in that it has got a little glimmer of hope but it's subtly dystopian. It's no more or less dark that our current world.
I don't think the christian symbols were there for universality but because Oshii himself is a christian.
The problem starts with words and their definitions. I recognized that there is a huge overlap in what people view as conscience and sentience. And how something like artificial self learning systems affect that part. For me conscience is always the part of us that experiences, not acts. And that is the one isolating factor. While we might grant personhood to something that merely acts like a person or like it has a kind of will on it's own this, the experiencing, is what makes the self. And we can be unconscious while most bodily functions and in some neurological cases even functioning are preserved. So there is never a question for me if highly automated statistics (a ka artificial intelligence) would ever develop a consciousness in itself. How could it? Why would it.
Of course this raises other questions. The body can function without consciousness but can consciousness function without a body? (Hello religion and philosophy) . If not and we consider the world we know and can observe as all there is, why did this even develop in the first place, as it is not needed.
Interestingly, there are some scientists that say that this conscience is an illusion in the first place, but I have a problem with this simplistic view (and it may be a clash of definitions again). If experiencing itself is an illusion, then what does experience that illusion. It is a circular argument that makes no sense.
Are you going to do the Westworld series as well? Great video as always
The difference is a soul...where do robots go when they die. If you can turn something back on its not human. It's the idea of an afterlife that make us human.What judgement does a robot have when it's turn off? It's the idea or the feelings that makes us human.
Somehow, you managed to take a somewhat novel approach to this film that people tend to reduce to "what makes us human". To my favourites. Now I have to go to work, but oh boy, am I going to comment in this gem of a video.
Identity is the perception of one's self or others.
How did you manage to not mention The Ship of Theseus?
fuck, no wonder I was confused when I watched this as a 17yrs old.
renegade cut renegade cut
Okay, but, what's your take on the 2nd season episode of Star Trek: Voyager, "Tuvix"?
I really enjoyed this analysis! I mean I'm a huge fan of the show, and this is one of my favorite animated films of all time so basic math says great episode!
Have seen or read anyt other GitS related media? It's quite interesting how different the original manga and this movie are tonewise.
Neukku Oshii does that to everything he makes a movie out of. Urusei Yatsura and Patlabor were comedies except for Oshiis movies of them where its suddenly the most serious thing.
who are they that do not possess whole minds? real or an estimation?
You guys haven't done this one yet? I thought for sure you already did.
Renegade Cut Background music name please?
Nihilism55 maybe your thinking of the Perfect Blue video?
Similar concepts, infact watching this one reminds me that I thought that GITS (
But isn't information immaterial but has to be encoded on something Physical so both materialism and dualism accurate
Amazing video and analysis. You have a lot of knowledge about philosophy and I felt you summarized entire chapters of a book in this video. Anime, despite its many flaws, has a few hidden gems as a result of the work of talented people. I hope you have seen some of the other works of Mamoru Oshii or the works of Satoshi Kon or Masaaki Yuasa.
have you thought about writing screenplays? if you would be interested in participating in such pm me, otherwise keep up the good work
***** Oh that's right. I had completely forgotten about that Perfect Blue review. Now that I remember, I found your channel because of that video.
I like the Ghost in the Shell tv series more than the movie. I like all the characters, especially the fact they don't question whether they have souls or not. Its still here, but the characters have made up their minds on where they stand on the question. Overall, it balances its need to tell a story and develop its characters.
You said you work as a literature teacher, do your students know about your channel?
Oh, ok :) Love your videos btw
I am genuinely surprised that I haven't seen anybody draw comparison between the merging of Kusanagi and the Puppetmaster with fusion in Steven Universe.
Fusion in Steven universe is generally reversable. The Major and the Puppetmaster are fundamentally and permanently changed by the merging.
that doesn't look like anything to me.
poor Mikoto all she needs is..... love....
I know! so cheesy! don't kill me )-: !
Personally, I've always believed that "sentience = having a soul." But that's just me.
But what is a soul, and does that mean you think there cannot be sentient A.I.? What about animals that recognise themselves in mirrors, do such animals have a souls?
You may need to reword that last sentence.
And while I cannot give a definite answer as to what a soul precisely is, and by my sentence, if an A.I. is sentient, that would mean that it has a soul. Hence what I said, sentience equals having a soul.
@@RexBlazer1 the trouble with positing that sentient lifeforms have souls is that there's not only no evidence a soul exists but the evidence on cognition and human brains indicates that the most likely isn't a soul at all.