Ramsey Dewey responds to a comment from a viewer about how boxers should use traditional Chinese martial arts forms to train their cardio instead of running.
- My wrestling coach used to tell us, "The best way to get in shape is to wrestle. That's why we don't lift weights during wrestling season. If you want to lift, do it during the off season. While they lift, we wrestle." And that was what we did. Drill wrestling specific with and without partners, and wrestled. More drilling than matches. I can still hear him: "Again. Up! Again." - If we ran, it was on our own time to cut weight, but coach would open up the wrestling room so we could drill non-partner. - Results: We never lost if a match went to the third period. We won the Team State Championship for the largest high school division (AA or AAA - it was 35 years ago). Sometimes we would send our "A team" to one meet and our "B team" to one in another city - we always won both.
Absolutely. This shouldn't be a surprise. How many times will this lesson need to be repeated? You train for what you need, there's no substitution for fighting if you really want to get good at fighting. Some people in my gym are so busy that the only thing they can do is dedicate most of their time at the gym to sparring followed by physical training. They do very little techniques and yet they are still amongst the best in our gym. But if all you do is practicing forms then the only thing you'll be good at is doing forms.
One of my kung fu instructors actually tried using forms training for my cardio. Kung fu forms done properly are a smoke session, but there is definitely a point where forms training just wastes valuable training time. Traditionally people only learned a couple kung fu forms and (unless you're a teacher) this is all that is necessary. Practicing two or three northern shaolin style sets gives great cardio, flexibility, coordination, leg strength, and stamina. Additionally, forms training gave me tons of leg strength and endurance. So it's definitely not wasted time, and I got more out of it than I got from road work. As an added benefit, when one becomes too old to fight there are still forms to stay in shape :)
Haven't checked in with you for awhile, I'm almost 67 now and mostly fighting Arthritis , when I studied Gung Fu in the 70s it was magical, things have changed so much, take care and keep training, maybe do a vid on Cane Fu.
Lmfaooo00 😂🤣😆 🤌 is this a joke ? Are you serious? Bro Bruce Lee was nothing more than an actor. You can't be serious. You know that that was a joke right? Gung fu ? Lmfaooo00 😂🤣😆🤌 I'm dying over here thanks for the laugh . The best medicine for your arthritis is to get in the sun. Vitamin d is for arthritis and the only way our body can actually Get the vitamin is through the Sun.
@@IDRUSKI This is just their ridiculous mindset creating an art of fighting out of anything. They ran out of animals to mimic so when they came to the West they created Gunfu mimicking a gun. It's more of a mental illness than anything
@@IDRUSKI What happened was they ran out of animals to mimic to make fighting styles. So when they came to the West they created an art out of guns and called it Gun fu .
Super happy to learn more from you and I like how you state that “just because it’s not in the UFC, then it doesn’t work”. Thanks for that, Coach. And I like that you’re knowledgeable in traditional styles while still enjoying combat sports. Very nice to see fair understanding of both sides, TMA and MMA
That is a good one, partial arts, I've practiced Gung Fu, Kemple Karate, Aikido, Lima Lama, Arnis, Tai Boxing, and Wing Chung for the longest time and not once did I ever can honestly say I knew how to fight. Of course we did liight sparring, but it never felt like it was real to me. So I quit and got into boxing, and dude that was a wake up call for me. As someone who had practiced numerous martial arts for 8 years I found myself getting pulverized by someone who had been training in boxing for only one year. But the interesting thing I learned from boxing after 5 years of it was when I finally understood how to fight confidently the skills and technique that I had learned from all the different arts became clear to me on how I could apply them in actual combat. In the event of me using techniques from my forms for defense and offense, it cause a lot of my sparring partners to be angry at me "as they would say that I was cheating for using my Kung Fu sh*t".
In fencing we have a variety of forms, some people may know Rene Geuna's scales for sabre fencing. The scales are a series of evolving partner drills that hone a fencers reflexes, sentiment du fer (closest thing in English is "feeling the steel"), control of the blade, and so on. Boxing doesn't have Kung Fu esque forms or katas because boxers already have training methods like mitt work, bag work, and a variety of drills for head movement and footwork that are more dynamic than what forms or kata offer.
Forms can be solid cardio work, but I don't think they're good enough at that to fully replace other cardio work. All in all, while forms can absolutely be a great addition to what you do for endurance training, it's usually not intense enough to replace things like running.
Sparring like Jitsu or striking is usually Cardio. Boxers do Road-work because they need conditioned legs to stand and move in the ring for numerous rounds.
@whattimeislove-h5h he knew that getting hit on the head will make you braindead he was a great counter puncher . I see him fighting again hopefully against 50 cent 😂🤣😆
@@EnsoGhisonisuccessgateway Honestly I usually find controlled sparring to be less cardio intensive than running. I usually find that muscular endurance is tested there before cardio is. In full contact that's different, and cardio absolutely is tested a lot more.
One of my pet peeves is seeing techniques shown in a way that relies on "turn-based combat" -- you know, where one person throws a single punch and then stands there acting dumbfounded as the other person does move after move. I think that's what we end up seeing in movies and video games more often because it's visually easier to follow and satisfying to watch, but that's not what combat is like. To train like that for fighting without working those techniques in a "live" environment (i.e. Sparring or something akin to it) can be very misrepresentative of not only HOW the technique works, but WHETHER it works at all. I'm really glad to see that you, Ramsey, found a method in making those old dojo techniques work for you -- it's unfortunate, but I think many can become disenfranchised with the viability of a technique when they are shown it works THIS way and when it doesn't, rather than seeing if it works THAT way they end up throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Movements in your forms *should* matter, so if you're not sure what the movement represents, try thinking of it differently.
I used to do a lot of Taekwondo forms and while yes they were tiring, I don't think anything could replace the stamina you get from roadwork or other traditional forms of cardio as the focus there is almost solely on cardio vs the forms where you have to also be paying attention to technique etc.
I don't know. I once attended a seminar on southern horse bench, and the master had insane cardio. In his 50s, just pure kung fu with lots of form work. I was in my 20s, running 30 miles a week on top of working outside and martial arts. I couldn't keep up. It's just most people don't push and sustain the pace working forms, and not all forms are designed for that.
Nice video Ramsey. I don't know if this has been covered already but I did have some thoughts about running vs more specific training. Here is my thinking: 1) One of the main limitations for any athlete is training injuries. 2) Martial arts stances tend to be assymetrical, there is a dominant side. 3) Over-developing one side of your body can lead to imbalances which can then lead to injuries. 4) Running is fairly symmetrical, both sides of the body should be working equally hard and this tends to be self-correcting. 5) I conclude that running is a good way to rehabilitate potential imbalances in the body before they become problematic. Any thoughts?
Anything that enhances your strength and endurance will make you a better combat athlete. Because you gotta have power, and you gotta endure both the pain and all the work your heart and lungs gotta do. I think the best exercise for being a fighter, and I might be incredibly old school by writing this but... Hard work. ¡Trabajo duro! Weighted carries, striking something with a heavy hammer over and over again, chopping wood, that kind of stuff. Weighted carries especially brought me really far, am not surprised that these exercises are so important in many special forces training programs
It's most important to understand how to stay calm. Learning this is all many need to do because they gas mentally. Learning how to stay calm and preserving your energy is key .
@@HarryTzianakisTheGodOfSpeed Exactly. If you get nervous, you will make mistakes. This is one of the many reasons why they burn you so hard in bootcamp, you just gotta be calm no matter what.
Ramsey, thanks for the in depth video on our comments. Let me clarify a few things. I couldn't really argue which style's forms would be the most effective in application, so I chose the two styles I was familiar with. With anything the style is far less important than the way it is practiced. I study Northern Shaolin (not longquan). Pardon the pinyin mistake. My teacher's teacher was from Taichung, Taiwan. I have always translated Fajin as "coil and whip" movement. I think the Wikipedia description does the word justice so I will copy/paste it here. In terms of biomechanics, fa jin is a matter of utilizing body alignment and coordination to form an extremely efficient kinematic chain. The body begins in a relaxed physical state, which is then quickly accelerated in a coordinated whole-body movement. Obviously sparring is most important to getting better at fighting. Forms are great for cardio, stances, flexibility, and explosiveness, and when drilled properly I believe most of them have real life application. Most of the techniques within them can be effective in a fight, if they aren't, then the form is not being practiced the way it was designed.
Totally agree with you ! Forms are a dictonnary of technique. Once you understand the application of one technique you have to test it progressively against an opponent and make adjustements. The way I was taught in my kung fu school is that movements are at first exagerated for learning purposes but when we drilled them and sparred with them, you have to make them smaller. All the deep squats or extended stances are there for exercises purposes. Wish more people understood that
Why do so many pretenders of the partial arts choose not to spar? I’ve had Mcdojo karate guys tell me they could win a street fight (specifically this small 15 year old claim to be able to fight off a grown man trying to kidnap him) even though they’ve never sparred, and I just don’t understand how anyone can bring themselves to believe that.
I see forms as a complementary exercise alongside the other stuff you're meant to be doing (lifting, stretching), if you like that stuff. I love them, so I do them in that context, even though my "main" martial art is competitive Judo. Depending how you practice your fancy dancing, there's quite a lot of overlap there! Also, I got the same hat! Don't think Terry minds, he seems like a chill guy. Just gotta watch out of he asks us if we're ok, tho.
I think forms definitely have value, I am a GongFu and TaijiQuan man myself- but running is an irreplaceable input. I've done some Muay Thai too, and those guys are pretty crystal clear about it- if you don't run, you dont actually do Muay Thai. It's a low grade, prerequisite part of the shin conditioning process too.
One of the issues with HEMA is that quite frankly we have no idea much of the time what we are looking at. Sure, it looks like a block, but it doesnt work. So what is it? We dont know. I remember we were puzzling over a particular technique, wondering why it was performed the way it was when it seemed doing it differently would seemingly be more efficient. It wasnt until one of our guys was in period garb that we realised that unless the technique is performed as describes, the quillons of the sword will get caught in the clothing. Another time we performed certain techniques with a live blade. Things that seemed strange before instantly made sense once the context of death was added to the equation. We *did not want to be hit*. At All. and that changed things.Techniques are created with context, and if the context is lost, the technique is in some ways corrupted.
Clothing and swords were invented by the Greeks . The rest of you were wearing animal heights on your backs, banging rocks together and moaning When the Greeks were civilized and had swords and clothing.
Certain things should not be overcomplicated. After all, we fought with spears and knives for over 10000 years. Manuals for using these tools can be found from the Bronze Age to the middle ages. Especially archery, Bronze Age archery forms are seemingly different, the Sumerians, Mycenaeans, Hittites, Egyptians etc... all used different stances. But I am an archer, and I do not really care, I just use the one that works for me. It is a tool, after all. I just need it for my hunting.
All I gotta say is: modern Shaolin training, regardless of how representative this current practice may or may not be to the ancient practices, includes running every day of their program. Lots of it.
"A block is a lock is a strike is a throw". The pulling hand is literally pulling to strip grip or move a limb or off balance the other person, it's baffling in 2024 when I see people still teaching these as strike blocks -- it'd be nice to see movie fight choreography get up to speed, too.
Try mountain climbing and hold a static hold while moving up wards . That my cardio and 500 punches kicks non stop and road work and half theses dudes can’t breathe
In terms of cardio value, it really depends on how close a form is to shadow boxing. There is first a core basic technique that should be learned from the form then, after that, it depends on if the form represents how footwork would be applied in combat to show footwork, positioning and recovery- the best example being the wooden dummy forms. My teacher would comment that those who did forms would often find that they reacted in an unconscious, particular and beneficial way in a fight after the constant rehearsal. Our current split is to do a high intensity exercise and do the form during a rest period, between sets.
He's referring to shaolin Do ten full minutes of shaolin forms, kicking arials, tricking, three sixties for days, handstand, rolls, endless spinning. The athletic demands are extreme.
If he suggested boxers learn Tai Chi for stress management and fluid movement, then I would agree. But Kung Fu forms? They're mostly exercise. I did them for years. They are fun. But only fighting can make you a better fighter.
in fencing our cardio that we do most consists of essentially back and forth tag but with footwork. definitely gets blood pumping and heavy breathing but keeps closer to the pace of a fight if not a bit more prolonged. Oldest manual we have in HEMA is alittle over 700 years old tho not really easy to say weather anyone practicing from that manual is doing the same stuff as people in 1300, mostly trying out some pictures that are hard to interpret at the best of times in sparring.
Hello Ramsey God bless you, I’ve seen a lot of of your videos and they are very interesting, and I have a question, is it possible to add some kung fu techniques to the mixed martial arts? And is it true that all styles are good but it all depends on the individual, or also has to do with the styles, thank you very much. Have a wonderful day. God bless you.
As a Chinese speaking martial artist, I always translated the whole "fa jing" thing to "directional projection of force". I probably shared OP's opinion at some point in time, but now I've been training as a boxer for the past 4 years, I can confirm that it's erroneous to think that conscientious combat athletes (like boxers) DON'T think about maximising the amount of force they can generate and throw into an opponent. You don't see it as often unless you train as a boxer, but there are ABSOLUTELY critical nuances that optimise the effect your punches have on your opponent. You'll see it during weighted shadow-boxing and heavy bag drills in particular. I think the misconception comes from the fact that a lot of traditional martial artists tend to think technique by technique (i.e. EVERY strike needs to lead to maximum 'damage' to the opponent), and NOT about using set-ups leading up to a decisive blow. That misconception likely boils down to the fact that most traditional martial artists don't wind up in protracted fights (or even sparring sessions) with equally or more skilled opponents, which is usually what teaches you that trying to take someone's head off or break all their ribs with EVERY strike, usually results in you doing neither of these things while you keep getting hit/dropped. How to take your time, feel your opponent's defences/tendencies out, and capitalise on an opportunity are just things that take a lot of time sparring/fighting to learn. Prioritising "directional projection of force" is something that might make you awesome on the heavy bags, but won't necessarily turn anyone into a good fighter (EVERY gym has someone like that).
My maui thai fighter friend (fought pro at low level in Thailand ) Always talked when running, made me say little poem things or recite something. He said it’s better for fighting cause you can’t breathe rhythmically when fighting.
Never fought pro anything so def not on your level, but I started doing this for my jits cardio and maybe placebo but it subjectively helped quite a bit, done it ever since.
@@nsparacino yeah definitely helps. There’s definitely a base level of cardio/fitness where any type of cardio will help. But above that only sport specific training will only help. Same as strength training. Doing weights and getting your deadlift from 50kg to 150kg will help ju-jitsu like nothing else, but getting your deadlift from 150kg to 200kg will probably make no difference at all.
Ramsey I want your opinion about this. Ive trained in combat sports (More Striking than Grappling), Reality based systems (including those that teach unarmed knife defense), medieval combat (Swords and weapons) and traditional martial arts. I have experience in sparrings with multiple opponents. I have won against 3 friends, they couldnt even touched me. From my experienced in sparrings against multiple oponents Striking is superior to Grappling. Grappling is greater for some things, like weapon disarming or takedown defense, but Striking is king in my opinion.
"All styles are made up. Somebody had to make up karate. Somebody had to go: "What's a silly, really inefficient, goofy way of moving?" And they had to do it a bunch of times and be like "I wonder if I can charge people for this."" - Master Ken, 11th Degree black belt and founder of Meri-Do-Te
My 2nd comment. Boxers do understand jin ( force) the best people to ask and train fa jin ( shock force ) is chen village style tai ji masters. Chen taiji goes back to the 17th century, not much else has survived that long.
Hey Ramsey. The style I practice is not thousand but hundred thousand years old. I practice basic of stick fighting (the very basics likee swinging at air, ground or water) with my toddler, so you were wrong about that! Check your facts!
Pankration has not been consistently taught and practiced since then. When the Ancient Olympics ended in the 4th century AD, so did the practice of pankration. Modern pankration is not what was done in Ancient Greece. It’s a historical revival based on incomplete information.
Forms are directed shadowboxing. A lot of people would benefit from forms over the random collection of movements they put together and call shadow boxing. Icy Mike had a pretty good video about how most people shadow box incorrectly. They don’t visualize and they just string moves together. Those people could benefit from a form that ingrains combinations and acts as a visualization exercise.
@@RamseyDewey I was more meaning in terms of running through solo techniques. It’s like if you have judo kids running combinations. Unless they know, they don’t usually put together logical patterns (Osotogari- sasae) and often just string two they happen to like because they’re not picturing an opponent.
Hey Ramsey, I recently began reading "A Brief History of the Martial Arts" by Jonathan Clements and it reminded me a lot about the discussions you have on your channel. Was wondering if you're familiar with the book and if so what's your take on it? Thanks.
An old instructor of ours use to always tell us that "Jog if you want to get good at jogging." A few guys that came to our gym from different styles, like boxing, always asked us why we werent encouraged, or taken out to do road work. We did a short amount of circle jogging on the mats, but that would only be for a few seconds before we would start doing other movement patterns with it. Our stamina was just fine. It makes alot of sense to work the muscles you'l actually use in the sport. The gloved takedowns in sanda are one of my favorite aspects of watching it. To me, thats a style and dicipline all by itself, and its hard to compare it to other gloved takedowns seen in muay thai and other sports. Wasn't initially going to share this, but i figured i would. Unless your security job is at a bathhouse or a quiet bar somewhere, and you gotta watch out for the rowdy politician that comes in wearing his business suit, than maybe jacket training is your go to. Otherwise, if a persons working security at an establishment and a style of some sort is a pre requisition on a resume, I'd honestly suggest Sanda. Its fast-paced nature is what gives it an edge and how it can flow into takedowns, much like some other sports, like combat sambo or kudo. The only difference is that you're not allowed to have efficient grips, which is also one of its greatest advantages, in my opinion. Some might think that it's a dumb idea, but it really isn't. In a high stress security situation, especially in a dark room, you dont always have time to try and set up an efficient grip, whether on the suit of the rowdy mayor, or just a standard tie up. To flow into someone while their punching and kicking at you and take them down with minimal grip is a PHENOMENAL advantage. Id actually suggest security workers try train with the higher ounced, grip restricted gloves on.
Sport specific cardio is def no.1 but running and those basic cardio are such a pillar for general athleticism ,like if you run 10k with ease you def will have an head start with any activities ,and also running is all body no mind so you can take your body to the extremes and not be limited by keeping form and other things There is a reason every single martial artist, especially striking ones ,are almost professional level runners
This rhetoric is better than what I would have come up with. I would have just maintained that running/cycling/swimming is constant "uptime" of cardiovascular training, and practically everything else falls short for increasing endurance. Now, big gas tank or not, if you don't train in the thing you wanna do, you'll be bad at it, including breathing through the motions. I think it's necessary to do cardio exercises no matter what the sport or hobby, if one wants to compete.
Well Ramsey, my style has been around for like 50-60 years. Although one example of a style with over 1000 years of history is Greco Roman Wrestling. I'm sure its changed significantly from its origin over the millenium, but it has been practiced for a very long time. Would you consider HEMA an old system? Its a modern attempt to restore medieval techniques, through the research and application of original texts. Those texts granted are not 1000 years old, most are from the 1300s-1600s, but still rather old.
My Army drill sergeant said that running was as close to dying as you can get without it happening. And then he proved it… many times. It’s hard on your joints, and is time consuming. I have tried to not run as exercise since then. Honestly, I hate running, probably because of this experience.
You mention karate/TKD style blocks about halfway in. I found a - sort of - way to use them IRL. I started in karate and got a Brown Belt before trying BJJ for a few years, then started doing Muay Thai and karate at the same time. I hated yow useless a healthy chunk of my karate was. Don't get me wrong, my kicks were tricky - so they'd make contact -, I was decently agile in footwork, and not timid in sparring... But at boxing range I would get thrashed (unless I clinched - which I am just anomalously gifted at). So, I said to myself, "someone deliberately made this karate stuff so even if it's not very good there must be SOMETHING to it". So I experimented for years and found in a higher guard with my lead hand - more like a common Muay Thai guard than a peekaboo guard (still my most comon guard)- I could reliably "block" using the first few inches of my forearms and just moving my shoulder maybe 30 degrees in any direction. That FEELS very much like using a high, low, middle or inside block. I wouldn't recommend most new strikers practice this, but if you're intermediate and experimenting or if you started into combat sports from karate, TKD, or maybe even Kung Fu (IDK Kung Fu so I'm guessing) background then this might be worth drilling a few times then trying in sparring.
There's only one dominant style of fighting created by the Greeks. Striking the best style is kickboxing. The head movement and the foot movement to avoid strikes is superior to any other style. That's why the Greeks developed it to be their stand-up fighting style. When they combined all the fighting styles into one, they named this mixed martial art Pankration. It didn't only involve fighting with your hands and feet. It also involved how to use weapons. Sword fighting is what started to take over the hand-to-hand combat of war . The Greeks were the best sword fighters. The best physical hand-to-hand combat fighters that have ever existed on this planet All this knowledge was given to the Greeks by the gods. Because the only chosen people are the Greeks proving this with their god-given knowledge and inventions. Without the Greek, all of you would still be banging rocks together. Mumbling and doing sign language
Recently went back to TKD after a while of only training boxing and kickboxing. Wanted to try it out again now that I have more general striking knowledge/ experience. I completely agree that the traditional blocks of TKD seem to be movements to compliment a long guard. I also agree not to teach beginners to use traditional TKD blocks. My current view is to teach a tight high guard first as a reliable defensive fall back option once distance is closed.
Hey Ramsey, training helps improve my confidence and mental wellbeing however after training I find I’m more inclined to go out on the town, get woman and booze. Ultimately counterproductive to my mental wellbeing. What should I do with this conundrum? Thanks big fan
I don't know why anybody would ask such a stupid question. You obviously know the answer to it, but do you really need to hear it from someone else? 😐🤌
I like to do traditional forms. They are great for isometric workout, flexibility and technique fundamentals. But running is also part of training it develop breathing and bone density and helps to creat muscle... sprinting is a fundamental training
Does Sanda have a belt ranking system? I’m seeing them included in more kickboxing systems like bang Muay Thai and Roufus Sport. I don’t get why more Thai schools don’t go that route? They’re as stuck in tradition as karate schools that still teach kata or choreographed “self defense.” You always hear “your record is your rank,” but 99.99% of people are never going to fight amateur or professionally but still want to progress in a system. I think we’d eliminate half of the useless martial arts doing this.
🤣 I currently box and wrestled as a kid too. TMA is my background... any martial arts class with sparring is effective. learning forms is a good thing too.
Hi coach question for you. What are the best ways to set goals in martial arts? I want some ideas if im working on a technique like a single leg takedown for example my sparring partners will change and adjust to defend that technique better themselves. Are there any tips for knowing if my technique is actually improving. Cheers for the content its great
I have been practicing sanda for a few months. I'm training in shaolin kung fu as well for 2 years. Taolu did not give me fighting skills, but it made me stronger physically and mentally. In my school was an idea that sanda is for the tough and advanced people but i was already fit and strong enough to train with more advanced people, i can also spar with them and not get beat up. I may not be good yet in sanda because I'm inexperienced, but i have a question for you Ramsey. How do i become skillful in forms/patterns. I know you have the answer, i mean you've been training since you were a kid and you have mastered taekwondo, kyokushin and shotokan. How do i get very good to compete, my sifu says all the time that i will cry if i complete in a national tournament. Give me a few advice
I would say boxers and sanda guys do practice traditional forms . I would also say forgive him because its an unexperienced observation. But for balance in fairness Road running does alot of damage so don't just do one thing, it's a successful combination, as someone once said 😊
Hi Ramsey I saw your video on how to protect your nose already I want to start mma but I don’t want to lose my nose shape will a broken nose ever look like before again? Thanks for your videos!
My suggestion:every pro fighter should learn the "Homer Simpson strategy"when you let your opponent beat you till they passed out from over fatigue😂 btw what do you think of road work with combat boots like Marvin Haggler?
I practiced Shorin-ryu karate and saw how some newer styles did their forms; you're right, it is totally different. Shorin-ryu isn't tournament focused, so for all the flaws, they would allow grabbing and grappling. Usually ground fighting wouldn't happen, but sweeps and standing locks (that weird two handed outside block is possibly an entry to a grovit?) were there. I found that after starting to teach and practice ringen & catch wrestling, a lot of the forms made much more sense.
So I have a question it's not about 'forms' but it is about kung fu which was the very first martial arts class I took. I learned when someone grabs you an effective way to deal with it is to cause pain to their hands. The technique I was taught was something along the lines of make a 'crowpeck' fist and drive it into the middle of the back of their hand. Now, I've never done this in a straight up fight, but I have done similar things in aggressive situations and people let go pretty quickly because it really hurts. Do you think it would work against grapplers in a real world scenario? People in UFC tend not to go for damaging the hands because of gloves and rules, but I've always looked at them as pretty obvious targets. Any thoughts?
How many times will this lesson need to be repeated? You train for what you need, there's no substitution for fighting if you really want to get good at fighting. Some people in my gym are so busy that the only thing they can do is dedicate most of their time at the gym to sparring followed by physical training. They do very little techniques and yet they are still amongst the best in our gym. But if all you do is practicing forms then the only thing you'll be good at is doing forms.
Hello Ramsey, i have a question based on your expertise and knowledge martial arts in history, do you think that martial arts like boxing as we know it, freestyle wrestling and kickboxing have changed the way people fight and that before these arts were made popular, professional fighters fought differently, for example before boxing fundamentals became the go to for hand striking, people may have had the dominant hand (orthodox or southpaw) used as a type of jab instead of weaker hand, or upper body techniques used instead of single and double legs.
Young bull has more muscle ... Old bull has more experience ... My take on this is people that run or practice "forms " are all in the same category ... They all got to much time on their hands . Some folks actually have to go outside and provide a real service to others for prophet .... 😁
Here’s what, it seems to me that maybe Karate was not supposed to be taught to westerners. But, there was lots of money in doing so. So, those instructors that brought it to the west, were probably walking a bit of a thin line. Maybe, as a compromise they just didn’t really teach it the way it was meant to be used? Or something was lost in translation?
@@RamseyDewey Still, what about them maybe not giving all of it to the west? I mean, they wouldn’t even train Japanese people who they had not come to trust.
No. In the 1900’s. When they rebranded it and changed the name from 唐手道 to 空手道，for national pride, added the gi and belt ranks, and made up a completely different sport version of bad kickboxing instead of teaching all the grappling techniques from the forms to try to make it mainstream and popular. The Japanese did that to the Okinawan art in recent history, not westerners.
A real kung fu form. Like SHaolin "Xiao hong Quan, or ChangHU XInYi Men" are VERY tiring and designed to strengthen the lower body so it moves fluidly. if you see it done with correct low stances youd see it's worth 20-30 min of back to back repetition. I ran 5-10 miles every morning before training when i lived at my shifu's school. he wanted me dial back on the running but honestly i weent for long runs to get a break from the kungfu. theose were great years. I can say i think you could replace running with form training if done right.
What is “cardio” for? If you’re going to compete, you need the cardio to fight effectively for however long a round is in your competition rule set, recuperate in the 30 or 60 s that same rules specify between rounds, and repeat for a specific number of rounds. But if you want to train hard and consistently, you need at least enough cardio to perform everything the class or set demands, with mental engagement as you go (if you want to learn anything that is). This will probably be for longer time than any match. You also want your body to reduce systemic fatigue from one day to another. You know, when you do a really hard workout and the next day you’re still out of gas… less of that. Finally there’s cardio that allows you to work hard at an even pace, refilling your oxygen and energy at the same speed you’re expending it. Long distance running, swimming and biking for instance. I’m sure there’s some crossover benefits between all of these, but absolutely not one-to-one. And if you want to maximise the first kind, marathon running is probably the least efficient use of your time. But then again, if you just missed the bus and know you can still be in time for class (barely) if you run for twenty minutes… that’s a good ability to have in your life. Probably comes up more often than you need to be able to kick somebody’s ass. Cheers
As someone that practices Chinese forms religiously, I think it depends on the person. Every person is different, that’s why you have different types of exercises. For example, forms work fantastic for me while running does nothing, while it can be the total opposite for someone else. You can’t just make a blanket statement like that that guy did and expect it to apply for everyone.
this is completely off topic but i would love you're opinion on this. in my opinion the most telling thing about a fighters skill level is shadow boxing, especially slow technical shadow shadow boxing where the fighter is almost in a trance like state and you can see the "shadow" he is fighting.
almost all of my training involves me noticing a mistake I make in sparing, working it for a few hours in shadow boxing, to fix the mistake, and than attempting to incorporate the fix in sparring, and than in my fights by default . I also hit the pads, and do drills, but its mainly shadow boxing.
The reason you would Dance in addition to using fighting footwork is that the dance would put a great stress load for a longer period of time than the fight footwork. So having done the dance when you go to apply fight foot work your faster and more coordinated… for example lomachenko
Tim Welch recently interviewed Sean O’Malley’s ( UFC Bantemweight champion) strength and conditioning coach. He has an interesting philosophy and some interesting methods. Worth checking out and testing
I can feel your pain about mixing languages. Some people try to replace 30% of their language with english to sound cooler, however if you use english on a daily basis that is just super awkward.
Ramsey, you prob know the US Stock Market crashed rather badly last Mon 8/5 marking an official US recession. Inflation is at an all time high, job market is broken with massive layoffs each week, interest rates remain stubbornly high et al. I'm starting to get a way better picture now on why you moved your family to Shanghai 15+ yrs ago. I think you learned something during the Great Recession of 2008-2009 and that's why you did it!
Just for fun. If you could create a form for boxing, what would it look like. When my uncle was in karate, part of his black belt testing was to create his own kata, which i thought was a neat idea. A couple yrs ago, at gym i was training at, one of the coaches and i put together an mma form for fun. Included punches, kicks, capoeira meialua de compasso, takedown shoot, and a few other moves.
Coach, I have seen martial arts instructors, especially in Taekwondo, forcefully stretch students into splits, causing a lot of pain and making them cry. Is this correct ?
@@HarryTzianakisTheGodOfSpeedno, that's apparently a valid contraction of words in English. I saw it somewhere a few years ago but have no idea what it means exactly.
In the case of Karate, it is still very effective in real fights with many people. Many agains many. Riots, that are just everyday normal life in many countries especially in the 70s 80s before the cellphones and the dictatorships in Latin America. And I talk about real big groups of people demonstrating, often 2 groups like sport supporters. And police and military get involved. Military vehicles that fills their tanks in the city from the septic drain system and aim at you with high pressure that knocks you to the ground. You have to move, turn around your head and body, fight and run for your life. Same thing with Capoeira. That was how it once was, not same cousin brawl on the fluffy back yard at the family-meet once a year there the others pull up their smartphones and film it and put it up on internet. Many real fights don't get filmed, unless they get stuck on some surveillance camera and somebody puts it up on internet.
Which style of wrestling do you practice? Greco Roman? That’s from the mid 1800’s. Freestyle? 1920’s. Folk style? 1800’s. CACC? 1800’s. No one practices the same style of wrestling as the Ancient Greek Olympians today. Just because every culture throughout history has independently developed wrestling styles does not mean that your specific wrestling style is ancient.
@@RamseyDewey That's fair. I just was going off the fact/assumption that wrestling was from the Greeks/Romans therefore thousands of years old. I was thinking Greco Roman. I didn't know it was from the mid 1800s's. Thanks, coach!
Pick a language and stick to it gets weird when you say omoplata. This is an old Portuguese word that means shoulder blade. So I’d describe the omoplata as, “do the shoulder blade?”
If you have a perfectly functional word or phrase for a thing in your language like "strength", or "push", or "pull", or "triangle choke", it's much less efficient to say those things in a foreign language. If you don't already have a simple workable translation for a complex movement figure, like "omoplata", but Portuguese does, then borrowing the word makes sense. All the Chinese words that tai chi nerds use (and often misuse) have perfectly good English translations. There is no need to pretend that badly pronounced Mandarin offers any magical benefits to martial arts training.
- My wrestling coach used to tell us, "The best way to get in shape is to wrestle. That's why we don't lift weights during wrestling season. If you want to lift, do it during the off season. While they lift, we wrestle." And that was what we did. Drill wrestling specific with and without partners, and wrestled. More drilling than matches. I can still hear him: "Again. Up! Again."
- If we ran, it was on our own time to cut weight, but coach would open up the wrestling room so we could drill non-partner.
- Results: We never lost if a match went to the third period. We won the Team State Championship for the largest high school division (AA or AAA - it was 35 years ago). Sometimes we would send our "A team" to one meet and our "B team" to one in another city - we always won both.
Absolutely. This shouldn't be a surprise. How many times will this lesson need to be repeated? You train for what you need, there's no substitution for fighting if you really want to get good at fighting. Some people in my gym are so busy that the only thing they can do is dedicate most of their time at the gym to sparring followed by physical training. They do very little techniques and yet they are still amongst the best in our gym. But if all you do is practicing forms then the only thing you'll be good at is doing forms.
I do my repetitive forms on a treadmill. It looks a lot like jogging, but it's really an ancient art from the Ming Dinasty.
The ancient Ming treadmills are getting hard to find......glad you have one!😊
Ming dynasty pussy got me acting unwise
😂
One of my kung fu instructors actually tried using forms training for my cardio. Kung fu forms done properly are a smoke session, but there is definitely a point where forms training just wastes valuable training time. Traditionally people only learned a couple kung fu forms and (unless you're a teacher) this is all that is necessary. Practicing two or three northern shaolin style sets gives great cardio, flexibility, coordination, leg strength, and stamina. Additionally, forms training gave me tons of leg strength and endurance. So it's definitely not wasted time, and I got more out of it than I got from road work. As an added benefit, when one becomes too old to fight there are still forms to stay in shape :)
hi man can you reccomend a couple of them.
Im learning horse stance currently
Haven't checked in with you for awhile, I'm almost 67 now and mostly fighting Arthritis , when I studied Gung Fu in the 70s it was magical, things have changed so much, take care and keep training, maybe do a vid on Cane Fu.
Lmfaooo00 😂🤣😆 🤌 is this a joke ? Are you serious? Bro Bruce Lee was nothing more than an actor. You can't be serious. You know that that was a joke right? Gung fu ? Lmfaooo00 😂🤣😆🤌 I'm dying over here thanks for the laugh .
The best medicine for your arthritis is to get in the sun. Vitamin d is for arthritis and the only way our body can actually Get the vitamin is through the Sun.
@HarryTzianakisTheGodOfSpeed shut up. Jesus.
@@HarryTzianakisTheGodOfSpeed I mean yeah, Gung fu is literally the original name of what's 'kung' fu
@@IDRUSKI This is just their ridiculous mindset creating an art of fighting out of anything. They ran out of animals to mimic so when they came to the West they created Gunfu mimicking a gun. It's more of a mental illness than anything
@@IDRUSKI What happened was they ran out of animals to mimic to make fighting styles. So when they came to the West they created an art out of guns and called it Gun fu .
"Martial pretenders of the partial arts" - had me rolling 😂
Super happy to learn more from you and I like how you state that “just because it’s not in the UFC, then it doesn’t work”. Thanks for that, Coach.
And I like that you’re knowledgeable in traditional styles while still enjoying combat sports. Very nice to see fair understanding of both sides, TMA and MMA
That is a good one, partial arts, I've practiced Gung Fu, Kemple Karate, Aikido, Lima Lama, Arnis, Tai Boxing, and Wing Chung for the longest time and not once did I ever can honestly say I knew how to fight. Of course we did liight sparring, but it never felt like it was real to me. So I quit and got into boxing, and dude that was a wake up call for me. As someone who had practiced numerous martial arts for 8 years I found myself getting pulverized by someone who had been training in boxing for only one year. But the interesting thing I learned from boxing after 5 years of it was when I finally understood how to fight confidently the skills and technique that I had learned from all the different arts became clear to me on how I could apply them in actual combat. In the event of me using techniques from my forms for defense and offense, it cause a lot of my sparring partners to be angry at me "as they would say that I was cheating for using my Kung Fu sh*t".
In fencing we have a variety of forms, some people may know Rene Geuna's scales for sabre fencing. The scales are a series of evolving partner drills that hone a fencers reflexes, sentiment du fer (closest thing in English is "feeling the steel"), control of the blade, and so on. Boxing doesn't have Kung Fu esque forms or katas because boxers already have training methods like mitt work, bag work, and a variety of drills for head movement and footwork that are more dynamic than what forms or kata offer.
Shadow boxing is like kung fu forms I think. A form is really just a series of shadow boxing moves in a sense
Forms can be solid cardio work, but I don't think they're good enough at that to fully replace other cardio work. All in all, while forms can absolutely be a great addition to what you do for endurance training, it's usually not intense enough to replace things like running.
Your intense training for cardio is my sleeping
Sparring like Jitsu or striking is usually Cardio. Boxers do Road-work because they need conditioned legs to stand and move in the ring for numerous rounds.
@whattimeislove-h5h Floyd didn't need the cardio that others did.
He was calm, hardly moved around Bobbing and weaving and holding.
@whattimeislove-h5h he knew that getting hit on the head will make you braindead he was a great counter puncher . I see him fighting again hopefully against 50 cent 😂🤣😆
@@EnsoGhisonisuccessgateway Honestly I usually find controlled sparring to be less cardio intensive than running. I usually find that muscular endurance is tested there before cardio is. In full contact that's different, and cardio absolutely is tested a lot more.
I didn't know Terry Bogart shaved is head.
One of my pet peeves is seeing techniques shown in a way that relies on "turn-based combat" -- you know, where one person throws a single punch and then stands there acting dumbfounded as the other person does move after move. I think that's what we end up seeing in movies and video games more often because it's visually easier to follow and satisfying to watch, but that's not what combat is like. To train like that for fighting without working those techniques in a "live" environment (i.e. Sparring or something akin to it) can be very misrepresentative of not only HOW the technique works, but WHETHER it works at all. I'm really glad to see that you, Ramsey, found a method in making those old dojo techniques work for you -- it's unfortunate, but I think many can become disenfranchised with the viability of a technique when they are shown it works THIS way and when it doesn't, rather than seeing if it works THAT way they end up throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Movements in your forms *should* matter, so if you're not sure what the movement represents, try thinking of it differently.
I used to do a lot of Taekwondo forms and while yes they were tiring, I don't think anything could replace the stamina you get from roadwork or other traditional forms of cardio as the focus there is almost solely on cardio vs the forms where you have to also be paying attention to technique etc.
My sleeping is your cardio
@@HarryTzianakisTheGodOfSpeed Did you read my comment lmao
@@raymorr8713yeah did you read mine ?
Yeah did you read mine ?
I don't know. I once attended a seminar on southern horse bench, and the master had insane cardio. In his 50s, just pure kung fu with lots of form work. I was in my 20s, running 30 miles a week on top of working outside and martial arts. I couldn't keep up. It's just most people don't push and sustain the pace working forms, and not all forms are designed for that.
Nice video Ramsey. I don't know if this has been covered already but I did have some thoughts about running vs more specific training. Here is my thinking:
1) One of the main limitations for any athlete is training injuries.
2) Martial arts stances tend to be assymetrical, there is a dominant side.
3) Over-developing one side of your body can lead to imbalances which can then lead to injuries.
4) Running is fairly symmetrical, both sides of the body should be working equally hard and this tends to be self-correcting.
5) I conclude that running is a good way to rehabilitate potential imbalances in the body before they become problematic.
Any thoughts?
Anything that enhances your strength and endurance will make you a better combat athlete. Because you gotta have power, and you gotta endure both the pain and all the work your heart and lungs gotta do. I think the best exercise for being a fighter, and I might be incredibly old school by writing this but... Hard work. ¡Trabajo duro! Weighted carries, striking something with a heavy hammer over and over again, chopping wood, that kind of stuff. Weighted carries especially brought me really far, am not surprised that these exercises are so important in many special forces training programs
It's most important to understand how to stay calm. Learning this is all many need to do because they gas mentally. Learning how to stay calm and preserving your energy is key .
@@HarryTzianakisTheGodOfSpeed Exactly. If you get nervous, you will make mistakes. This is one of the many reasons why they burn you so hard in bootcamp, you just gotta be calm no matter what.
@@CoffeeManiaTV yup staying calm and reading patterns of movement helps you create a mental fighting plan on the spot.
Nice Hat Dewey😁👍🏿.
Ramsey, thanks for the in depth video on our comments. Let me clarify a few things.
I couldn't really argue which style's forms would be the most effective in application, so I chose the two styles I was familiar with. With anything the style is far less important than the way it is practiced. I study Northern Shaolin (not longquan). Pardon the pinyin mistake. My teacher's teacher was from Taichung, Taiwan.
I have always translated Fajin as "coil and whip" movement. I think the Wikipedia description does the word justice so I will copy/paste it here.
In terms of biomechanics, fa jin is a matter of utilizing body alignment and coordination to form an extremely efficient kinematic chain. The body begins in a relaxed physical state, which is then quickly accelerated in a coordinated whole-body movement.
Obviously sparring is most important to getting better at fighting. Forms are great for cardio, stances, flexibility, and explosiveness, and when drilled properly I believe most of them have real life application. Most of the techniques within them can be effective in a fight, if they aren't, then the form is not being practiced the way it was designed.
Totally agree with you ! Forms are a dictonnary of technique. Once you understand the application of one technique you have to test it progressively against an opponent and make adjustements.
The way I was taught in my kung fu school is that movements are at first exagerated for learning purposes but when we drilled them and sparred with them, you have to make them smaller. All the deep squats or extended stances are there for exercises purposes. Wish more people understood that
Honestly at this point, people should just make up their own forms for cardio. Why not?
Why do so many pretenders of the partial arts choose not to spar? I’ve had Mcdojo karate guys tell me they could win a street fight (specifically this small 15 year old claim to be able to fight off a grown man trying to kidnap him) even though they’ve never sparred, and I just don’t understand how anyone can bring themselves to believe that.
Depend of the Dojo when I trained Karate in my Dojo we spar all the time a lot of my friends quit because of the hard spar.
Nice hat bro. “Hey! C’mon c’mon!”
I see forms as a complementary exercise alongside the other stuff you're meant to be doing (lifting, stretching), if you like that stuff. I love them, so I do them in that context, even though my "main" martial art is competitive Judo. Depending how you practice your fancy dancing, there's quite a lot of overlap there!
Also, I got the same hat! Don't think Terry minds, he seems like a chill guy. Just gotta watch out of he asks us if we're ok, tho.
The Dewy Bogard hat tho.
i would love a video of dewey playing a fatal fury or king of fighters game! 1 gaming video, dewey!
I think forms definitely have value, I am a GongFu and TaijiQuan man myself- but running is an irreplaceable input. I've done some Muay Thai too, and those guys are pretty crystal clear about it- if you don't run, you dont actually do Muay Thai. It's a low grade, prerequisite part of the shin conditioning process too.
Good video!!
Where did you get the fatal fury cap?! Thats the 2nd coolest think i have seen you wear. Only beaten by the skeletor lifting weights shirt
One of the issues with HEMA is that quite frankly we have no idea much of the time what we are looking at. Sure, it looks like a block, but it doesnt work. So what is it? We dont know. I remember we were puzzling over a particular technique, wondering why it was performed the way it was when it seemed doing it differently would seemingly be more efficient. It wasnt until one of our guys was in period garb that we realised that unless the technique is performed as describes, the quillons of the sword will get caught in the clothing.
Another time we performed certain techniques with a live blade. Things that seemed strange before instantly made sense once the context of death was added to the equation. We *did not want to be hit*. At All. and that changed things.Techniques are created with context, and if the context is lost, the technique is in some ways corrupted.
Clothing and swords were invented by the Greeks . The rest of you were wearing animal heights on your backs, banging rocks together and moaning When the Greeks were civilized and had swords and clothing.
Certain things should not be overcomplicated. After all, we fought with spears and knives for over 10000 years. Manuals for using these tools can be found from the Bronze Age to the middle ages. Especially archery, Bronze Age archery forms are seemingly different, the Sumerians, Mycenaeans, Hittites, Egyptians etc... all used different stances. But I am an archer, and I do not really care, I just use the one that works for me. It is a tool, after all. I just need it for my hunting.
One of the problems with HEMA guys is its really short for HEMATOMA guys, that's why they need all that armor 😮😅
All I gotta say is: modern Shaolin training, regardless of how representative this current practice may or may not be to the ancient practices, includes running every day of their program. Lots of it.
"A block is a lock is a strike is a throw". The pulling hand is literally pulling to strip grip or move a limb or off balance the other person, it's baffling in 2024 when I see people still teaching these as strike blocks -- it'd be nice to see movie fight choreography get up to speed, too.
Try mountain climbing and hold a static hold while moving up wards . That my cardio and 500 punches kicks non stop and road work and half theses dudes can’t breathe
In terms of cardio value, it really depends on how close a form is to shadow boxing. There is first a core basic technique that should be learned from the form then, after that, it depends on if the form represents how footwork would be applied in combat to show footwork, positioning and recovery- the best example being the wooden dummy forms. My teacher would comment that those who did forms would often find that they reacted in an unconscious, particular and beneficial way in a fight after the constant rehearsal. Our current split is to do a high intensity exercise and do the form during a rest period, between sets.
80% of all traditional martial arts forms across styles are grappling techniques… so not much like shadow boxing at all.
@@RamseyDewey practicing Kata on boxing class so I can get DQd for holding and hitting!
"I like to know what style been around for a thousand years" How about Windmill style?
He's referring to shaolin
Do ten full minutes of shaolin forms, kicking arials, tricking, three sixties for days, handstand, rolls, endless spinning.
The athletic demands are extreme.
And extremely different from both boxing and sanda, with little athletic crossover. The best sanda fighters are the guys who do the least forms.
@@RamseyDeweygives you good attributes though. My leg strength and flexibility was crazy in Sanda do to my Shaolin form practice
Running is good for losing weight. Fast-distance running is the only thing that ever made it possible for me to lose weight in a timely fashion.
If he suggested boxers learn Tai Chi for stress management and fluid movement, then I would agree. But Kung Fu forms? They're mostly exercise. I did them for years. They are fun. But only fighting can make you a better fighter.
in fencing our cardio that we do most consists of essentially back and forth tag but with footwork. definitely gets blood pumping and heavy breathing but keeps closer to the pace of a fight if not a bit more prolonged.
Oldest manual we have in HEMA is alittle over 700 years old tho not really easy to say weather anyone practicing from that manual is doing the same stuff as people in 1300, mostly trying out some pictures that are hard to interpret at the best of times in sparring.
Hey man! Love your vids keep going ❤
Hello Ramsey God bless you, I’ve seen a lot of of your videos and they are very interesting, and I have a question, is it possible to add some kung fu techniques to the mixed martial arts? And is it true that all styles are good but it all depends on the individual, or also has to do with the styles, thank you very much. Have a wonderful day. God bless you.
Hey Ramsey, do you know if Red Chuck is ever coming back to TH-cam also great video today 👍
I don’t know if he will make TH-cam videos any time soon. He’s focusing on boxing competition right now.
Sanda being a chinese unarmed martial art, wouldn't that make it "kung fu"?
As a Chinese speaking martial artist, I always translated the whole "fa jing" thing to "directional projection of force". I probably shared OP's opinion at some point in time, but now I've been training as a boxer for the past 4 years, I can confirm that it's erroneous to think that conscientious combat athletes (like boxers) DON'T think about maximising the amount of force they can generate and throw into an opponent. You don't see it as often unless you train as a boxer, but there are ABSOLUTELY critical nuances that optimise the effect your punches have on your opponent. You'll see it during weighted shadow-boxing and heavy bag drills in particular. I think the misconception comes from the fact that a lot of traditional martial artists tend to think technique by technique (i.e. EVERY strike needs to lead to maximum 'damage' to the opponent), and NOT about using set-ups leading up to a decisive blow. That misconception likely boils down to the fact that most traditional martial artists don't wind up in protracted fights (or even sparring sessions) with equally or more skilled opponents, which is usually what teaches you that trying to take someone's head off or break all their ribs with EVERY strike, usually results in you doing neither of these things while you keep getting hit/dropped. How to take your time, feel your opponent's defences/tendencies out, and capitalise on an opportunity are just things that take a lot of time sparring/fighting to learn. Prioritising "directional projection of force" is something that might make you awesome on the heavy bags, but won't necessarily turn anyone into a good fighter (EVERY gym has someone like that).
Great comment!
Thanks, @@RamseyDewey :-) Hope you're keeping well (all things considered). Keep up the good work!
My maui thai fighter friend (fought pro at low level in Thailand )
Always talked when running, made me say little poem things or recite something.
He said it’s better for fighting cause you can’t breathe rhythmically when fighting.
Never fought pro anything so def not on your level, but I started doing this for my jits cardio and maybe placebo but it subjectively helped quite a bit, done it ever since.
@@nsparacino yeah definitely helps. There’s definitely a base level of cardio/fitness where any type of cardio will help. But above that only sport specific training will only help.
Same as strength training. Doing weights and getting your deadlift from 50kg to 150kg will help ju-jitsu like nothing else, but getting your deadlift from 150kg to 200kg will probably make no difference at all.
Ramsey I want your opinion about this. Ive trained in combat sports (More Striking than Grappling), Reality based systems (including those that teach unarmed knife defense), medieval combat (Swords and weapons) and traditional martial arts. I have experience in sparrings with multiple opponents. I have won against 3 friends, they couldnt even touched me. From my experienced in sparrings against multiple oponents Striking is superior to Grappling. Grappling is greater for some things, like weapon disarming or takedown defense, but Striking is king in my opinion.
"All styles are made up. Somebody had to make up karate. Somebody had to go: "What's a silly, really inefficient, goofy way of moving?" And they had to do it a bunch of times and be like "I wonder if I can charge people for this.""
- Master Ken, 11th Degree black belt and founder of Meri-Do-Te
My 2nd comment. Boxers do understand jin ( force) the best people to ask and train fa jin ( shock force ) is chen village style tai ji masters. Chen taiji goes back to the 17th century, not much else has survived that long.
My personal opinion,
Instead of running fighters would be better off doing shadow boxing or pad work or striking/wrestling drills.
"Dragon style" is basically bak mei
Kung fu forms are definitely a great cardio workout. I used to burn out doing Shaolin Kung fu before Sanda lol
Hey Ramsey. The style I practice is not thousand but hundred thousand years old.
I practice basic of stick fighting (the very basics likee swinging at air, ground or water) with my toddler, so you were wrong about that! Check your facts!
Prankration since 648BC. If my math is right, that’s like 648+2024=uh…. Well, it’s longer than a thousand years😎
Pankration has not been consistently taught and practiced since then. When the Ancient Olympics ended in the 4th century AD, so did the practice of pankration. Modern pankration is not what was done in Ancient Greece. It’s a historical revival based on incomplete information.
@@RamseyDewey I know, I was being a smart ass👊. But what about boxing and wrestling?
Boxing and wrestling today are not the same sport as what the ancient Greeks practiced either.
Forms are directed shadowboxing. A lot of people would benefit from forms over the random collection of movements they put together and call shadow boxing.
Icy Mike had a pretty good video about how most people shadow box incorrectly. They don’t visualize and they just string moves together. Those people could benefit from a form that ingrains combinations and acts as a visualization exercise.
Most of the movements in most forms are not striking at all.
@@RamseyDewey I was more meaning in terms of running through solo techniques. It’s like if you have judo kids running combinations. Unless they know, they don’t usually put together logical patterns (Osotogari- sasae) and often just string two they happen to like because they’re not picturing an opponent.
Run! Then do the forms with someone simulating an opponent. That will be 2000.00 please.
Hey Ramsey, I recently began reading "A Brief History of the Martial Arts" by Jonathan Clements and it reminded me a lot about the discussions you have on your channel. Was wondering if you're familiar with the book and if so what's your take on it? Thanks.
An old instructor of ours use to always tell us that "Jog if you want to get good at jogging." A few guys that came to our gym from different styles, like boxing, always asked us why we werent encouraged, or taken out to do road work. We did a short amount of circle jogging on the mats, but that would only be for a few seconds before we would start doing other movement patterns with it. Our stamina was just fine. It makes alot of sense to work the muscles you'l actually use in the sport. The gloved takedowns in sanda are one of my favorite aspects of watching it. To me, thats a style and dicipline all by itself, and its hard to compare it to other gloved takedowns seen in muay thai and other sports. Wasn't initially going to share this, but i figured i would. Unless your security job is at a bathhouse or a quiet bar somewhere, and you gotta watch out for the rowdy politician that comes in wearing his business suit, than maybe jacket training is your go to. Otherwise, if a persons working security at an establishment and a style of some sort is a pre requisition on a resume, I'd honestly suggest Sanda. Its fast-paced nature is what gives it an edge and how it can flow into takedowns, much like some other sports, like combat sambo or kudo. The only difference is that you're not allowed to have efficient grips, which is also one of its greatest advantages, in my opinion. Some might think that it's a dumb idea, but it really isn't. In a high stress security situation, especially in a dark room, you dont always have time to try and set up an efficient grip, whether on the suit of the rowdy mayor, or just a standard tie up. To flow into someone while their punching and kicking at you and take them down with minimal grip is a PHENOMENAL advantage. Id actually suggest security workers try train with the higher ounced, grip restricted gloves on.
Sport specific cardio is def no.1 but running and those basic cardio are such a pillar for general athleticism ,like if you run 10k with ease you def will have an head start with any activities ,and also running is all body no mind so you can take your body to the extremes and not be limited by keeping form and other things
There is a reason every single martial artist, especially striking ones ,are almost professional level runners
@fabioooh Thats a good point.
This rhetoric is better than what I would have come up with. I would have just maintained that running/cycling/swimming is constant "uptime" of cardiovascular training, and practically everything else falls short for increasing endurance. Now, big gas tank or not, if you don't train in the thing you wanna do, you'll be bad at it, including breathing through the motions. I think it's necessary to do cardio exercises no matter what the sport or hobby, if one wants to compete.
Well Ramsey, my style has been around for like 50-60 years.
Although one example of a style with over 1000 years of history is Greco Roman Wrestling. I'm sure its changed significantly from its origin over the millenium, but it has been practiced for a very long time. Would you consider HEMA an old system? Its a modern attempt to restore medieval techniques, through the research and application of original texts. Those texts granted are not 1000 years old, most are from the 1300s-1600s, but still rather old.
Greco Roman wrestling is a French wrestling style from the mid 1800’s. It’s not ancient. It is not the style practiced by the ancient Greeks.
My Army drill sergeant said that running was as close to dying as you can get without it happening. And then he proved it… many times. It’s hard on your joints, and is time consuming. I have tried to not run as exercise since then. Honestly, I hate running, probably because of this experience.
You mention karate/TKD style blocks about halfway in.
I found a - sort of - way to use them IRL. I started in karate and got a Brown Belt before trying BJJ for a few years, then started doing Muay Thai and karate at the same time.
I hated yow useless a healthy chunk of my karate was. Don't get me wrong, my kicks were tricky - so they'd make contact -, I was decently agile in footwork, and not timid in sparring... But at boxing range I would get thrashed (unless I clinched - which I am just anomalously gifted at).
So, I said to myself, "someone deliberately made this karate stuff so even if it's not very good there must be SOMETHING to it".
So I experimented for years and found in a higher guard with my lead hand - more like a common Muay Thai guard than a peekaboo guard (still my most comon guard)- I could reliably "block" using the first few inches of my forearms and just moving my shoulder maybe 30 degrees in any direction. That FEELS very much like using a high, low, middle or inside block.
I wouldn't recommend most new strikers practice this, but if you're intermediate and experimenting or if you started into combat sports from karate, TKD, or maybe even Kung Fu (IDK Kung Fu so I'm guessing) background then this might be worth drilling a few times then trying in sparring.
There's only one dominant style of fighting created by the Greeks. Striking the best style is kickboxing.
The head movement and the foot movement to avoid strikes is superior to any other style. That's why the Greeks developed it to be their stand-up fighting style.
When they combined all the fighting styles into one, they named this mixed martial art Pankration. It didn't only involve fighting with your hands and feet. It also involved how to use weapons. Sword fighting is what started to take over the hand-to-hand combat of war .
The Greeks were the best sword fighters. The best physical hand-to-hand combat fighters that have ever existed on this planet
All this knowledge was given to the Greeks by the gods.
Because the only chosen people are the Greeks proving this with their god-given knowledge and inventions. Without the Greek, all of you would still be banging rocks together. Mumbling and doing sign language
@@HarryTzianakisTheGodOfSpeed I ain't reading all that
I'm happy for u tho
or sorry that happened
Recently went back to TKD after a while of only training boxing and kickboxing. Wanted to try it out again now that I have more general striking knowledge/ experience. I completely agree that the traditional blocks of TKD seem to be movements to compliment a long guard. I also agree not to teach beginners to use traditional TKD blocks. My current view is to teach a tight high guard first as a reliable defensive fall back option once distance is closed.
Hey Ramsey, training helps improve my confidence and mental wellbeing however after training I find I’m more inclined to go out on the town, get woman and booze. Ultimately counterproductive to my mental wellbeing. What should I do with this conundrum? Thanks big fan
I don't know why anybody would ask such a stupid question. You obviously know the answer to it, but do you really need to hear it from someone else?
😐🤌
I like to do traditional forms. They are great for isometric workout, flexibility and technique fundamentals. But running is also part of training it develop breathing and bone density and helps to creat muscle... sprinting is a fundamental training
Does Sanda have a belt ranking system? I’m seeing them included in more kickboxing systems like bang Muay Thai and Roufus Sport. I don’t get why more Thai schools don’t go that route? They’re as stuck in tradition as karate schools that still teach kata or choreographed “self defense.” You always hear “your record is your rank,” but 99.99% of people are never going to fight amateur or professionally but still want to progress in a system. I think we’d eliminate half of the useless martial arts doing this.
You deal with these messages from TMA fantasists so effectively.
🤣 I currently box and wrestled as a kid too. TMA is my background... any martial arts class with sparring is effective. learning forms is a good thing too.
Hi coach question for you. What are the best ways to set goals in martial arts? I want some ideas if im working on a technique like a single leg takedown for example my sparring partners will change and adjust to defend that technique better themselves. Are there any tips for knowing if my technique is actually improving. Cheers for the content its great
I have been practicing sanda for a few months. I'm training in shaolin kung fu as well for 2 years. Taolu did not give me fighting skills, but it made me stronger physically and mentally. In my school was an idea that sanda is for the tough and advanced people but i was already fit and strong enough to train with more advanced people, i can also spar with them and not get beat up. I may not be good yet in sanda because I'm inexperienced, but i have a question for you Ramsey. How do i become skillful in forms/patterns. I know you have the answer, i mean you've been training since you were a kid and you have mastered taekwondo, kyokushin and shotokan. How do i get very good to compete, my sifu says all the time that i will cry if i complete in a national tournament. Give me a few advice
I would say boxers and sanda guys do practice traditional forms . I would also say forgive him because its an unexperienced observation. But for balance in fairness Road running does alot of damage so don't just do one thing, it's a successful combination, as someone once said 😊
Hi Ramsey I saw your video on how to protect your nose already I want to start mma but I don’t want to lose my nose shape will a broken nose ever look like before again? Thanks for your videos!
My suggestion:every pro fighter should learn the "Homer Simpson strategy"when you let your opponent beat you till they passed out from over fatigue😂 btw what do you think of road work with combat boots like Marvin Haggler?
I practiced Shorin-ryu karate and saw how some newer styles did their forms; you're right, it is totally different. Shorin-ryu isn't tournament focused, so for all the flaws, they would allow grabbing and grappling. Usually ground fighting wouldn't happen, but sweeps and standing locks (that weird two handed outside block is possibly an entry to a grovit?) were there.
I found that after starting to teach and practice ringen & catch wrestling, a lot of the forms made much more sense.
That makes sense. A majority of the movements found in kata are grappling techniques.
So I have a question it's not about 'forms' but it is about kung fu which was the very first martial arts class I took. I learned when someone grabs you an effective way to deal with it is to cause pain to their hands. The technique I was taught was something along the lines of make a 'crowpeck' fist and drive it into the middle of the back of their hand. Now, I've never done this in a straight up fight, but I have done similar things in aggressive situations and people let go pretty quickly because it really hurts. Do you think it would work against grapplers in a real world scenario? People in UFC tend not to go for damaging the hands because of gloves and rules, but I've always looked at them as pretty obvious targets. Any thoughts?
How many times will this lesson need to be repeated? You train for what you need, there's no substitution for fighting if you really want to get good at fighting. Some people in my gym are so busy that the only thing they can do is dedicate most of their time at the gym to sparring followed by physical training. They do very little techniques and yet they are still amongst the best in our gym. But if all you do is practicing forms then the only thing you'll be good at is doing forms.
Hello Ramsey, i have a question based on your expertise and knowledge martial arts in history, do you think that martial arts like boxing as we know it, freestyle wrestling and kickboxing have changed the way people fight and that before these arts were made popular, professional fighters fought differently, for example before boxing fundamentals became the go to for hand striking, people may have had the dominant hand (orthodox or southpaw) used as a type of jab instead of weaker hand, or upper body techniques used instead of single and double legs.
Young bull has more muscle ... Old bull has more experience ... My take on this is people that run or practice "forms " are all in the same category ... They all got to much time on their hands .
Some folks actually have to go outside and provide a real service to others for prophet .... 😁
Here’s what, it seems to me that maybe Karate was not supposed to be taught to westerners. But, there was lots of money in doing so. So, those instructors that brought it to the west, were probably walking a bit of a thin line. Maybe, as a compromise they just didn’t really teach it the way it was meant to be used? Or something was lost in translation?
The Japanese bastardized karate long before westerners got involved.
@@RamseyDewey Still, what about them maybe not giving all of it to the west? I mean, they wouldn’t even train Japanese people who they had not come to trust.
No. In the 1900’s. When they rebranded it and changed the name from 唐手道 to 空手道，for national pride, added the gi and belt ranks, and made up a completely different sport version of bad kickboxing instead of teaching all the grappling techniques from the forms to try to make it mainstream and popular. The Japanese did that to the Okinawan art in recent history, not westerners.
A real kung fu form. Like SHaolin "Xiao hong Quan, or ChangHU XInYi Men" are VERY tiring and designed to strengthen the lower body so it moves fluidly. if you see it done with correct low stances youd see it's worth 20-30 min of back to back repetition. I ran 5-10 miles every morning before training when i lived at my shifu's school. he wanted me dial back on the running but honestly i weent for long runs to get a break from the kungfu. theose were great years. I can say i think you could replace running with form training if done right.
What is “cardio” for?
If you’re going to compete, you need the cardio to fight effectively for however long a round is in your competition rule set, recuperate in the 30 or 60 s that same rules specify between rounds, and repeat for a specific number of rounds.
But if you want to train hard and consistently, you need at least enough cardio to perform everything the class or set demands, with mental engagement as you go (if you want to learn anything that is). This will probably be for longer time than any match.
You also want your body to reduce systemic fatigue from one day to another. You know, when you do a really hard workout and the next day you’re still out of gas… less of that.
Finally there’s cardio that allows you to work hard at an even pace, refilling your oxygen and energy at the same speed you’re expending it. Long distance running, swimming and biking for instance.
I’m sure there’s some crossover benefits between all of these, but absolutely not one-to-one. And if you want to maximise the first kind, marathon running is probably the least efficient use of your time.
But then again, if you just missed the bus and know you can still be in time for class (barely) if you run for twenty minutes… that’s a good ability to have in your life. Probably comes up more often than you need to be able to kick somebody’s ass.
Cheers
As someone that practices Chinese forms religiously, I think it depends on the person. Every person is different, that’s why you have different types of exercises.
For example, forms work fantastic for me while running does nothing, while it can be the total opposite for someone else.
You can’t just make a blanket statement like that that guy did and expect it to apply for everyone.
Terry is asking for his hat
Wrestling is far older then 1,000 years
this is completely off topic but i would love you're opinion on this.
in my opinion the most telling thing about a fighters skill level is shadow boxing, especially slow technical shadow shadow boxing where the fighter is almost in a trance like state and you can see the "shadow" he is fighting.
almost all of my training involves me noticing a mistake I make in sparing, working it for a few hours in shadow boxing, to fix the mistake, and than attempting to incorporate the fix in sparring, and than in my fights by default . I also hit the pads, and do drills, but its mainly shadow boxing.
The reason you would Dance in addition to using fighting footwork is that the dance would put a great stress load for a longer period of time than the fight footwork. So having done the dance when you go to apply fight foot work your faster and more coordinated… for example lomachenko
I have logged far more hours dancing than Lomachenko. He has logged far more hours boxing. Take one guess who wins in a boxing match.
Tim Welch recently interviewed Sean O’Malley’s ( UFC Bantemweight champion) strength and conditioning coach. He has an interesting philosophy and some interesting methods. Worth checking out and testing
Was he aware that the traditional kung-fu practitioners did a lot of running? Shaolin even now, require students to constantly run.
I can feel your pain about mixing languages. Some people try to replace 30% of their language with english to sound cooler, however if you use english on a daily basis that is just super awkward.
Terry Bogard lives !!!
Ramsey, you prob know the US Stock Market crashed rather badly last Mon 8/5 marking an official US recession. Inflation is at an all time high, job market is broken with massive layoffs each week, interest rates remain stubbornly high et al. I'm starting to get a way better picture now on why you moved your family to Shanghai 15+ yrs ago. I think you learned something during the Great Recession of 2008-2009 and that's why you did it!
Just for fun. If you could create a form for boxing, what would it look like.
When my uncle was in karate, part of his black belt testing was to create his own kata, which i thought was a neat idea. A couple yrs ago, at gym i was training at, one of the coaches and i put together an mma form for fun. Included punches, kicks, capoeira meialua de compasso, takedown shoot, and a few other moves.
Love the Terry Bogard hat.
As a gamer I saw this right away!
Instead of running? No
In addition to running? Sure
what do you think about Bas Rutten's CDs? While not perfect, I wouldn't want the perfect to be the enemy of the good
Coach, I have seen martial arts instructors, especially in Taekwondo, forcefully stretch students into splits, causing a lot of pain and making them cry. Is this correct ?
my only 2 athletic hobbies are Martial arts and marathon running
so
I'm skeptical of whomst'd've'ly'yaint'nt'ed'ies's'y'es Ramsey is responding to
You are have a stroke ?
@@HarryTzianakisTheGodOfSpeedno, that's apparently a valid contraction of words in English. I saw it somewhere a few years ago but have no idea what it means exactly.
@@mrmoth26 😂🤣😆🤌
In the case of Karate, it is still very effective in real fights with many people. Many agains many. Riots, that are just everyday normal life in many countries especially in the 70s 80s before the cellphones and the dictatorships in Latin America. And I talk about real big groups of people demonstrating, often 2 groups like sport supporters. And police and military get involved. Military vehicles that fills their tanks in the city from the septic drain system and aim at you with high pressure that knocks you to the ground. You have to move, turn around your head and body, fight and run for your life. Same thing with Capoeira. That was how it once was, not same cousin brawl on the fluffy back yard at the family-meet once a year there the others pull up their smartphones and film it and put it up on internet. Many real fights don't get filmed, unless they get stuck on some surveillance camera and somebody puts it up on internet.
What almost no one knows is found in this book "Myths and blind spots in the fighting arts world... After the bible its the next good book for you."
Whose your favorite Fatal Fury character and what do you think about the new Fatal Fury?
Kalaripattu is older than 1000 years
My style has been around for thousands of years.
Wrestling.
Which style of wrestling do you practice? Greco Roman? That’s from the mid 1800’s. Freestyle? 1920’s. Folk style? 1800’s. CACC? 1800’s.
No one practices the same style of wrestling as the Ancient Greek Olympians today. Just because every culture throughout history has independently developed wrestling styles does not mean that your specific wrestling style is ancient.
@@RamseyDewey That's fair. I just was going off the fact/assumption that wrestling was from the Greeks/Romans therefore thousands of years old.
I was thinking Greco Roman. I didn't know it was from the mid 1800s's.
Thanks, coach!
@@denverwingchun9852 Did you know that Greco Roman is a French wrestling style?
@@RamseyDewey
I did not know that. I only knew of French savat or foot fencing
Jolie casquette !
I really got into walking stairs for additional cardio i feel like it engages my hips and core more than running and doesnt strain my ankles as much
I've heard that the Chinese fast wrestling, Shuai Jua, is a couple of thousand years🤷♂️
th-cam.com/video/fcmSdQrL4Yo/w-d-xo.htmlsi=H4JryZw8yZZS3vHN
Shuai Jiao is the oldest Chinese martial art by far.
@@RamseyDewey Do you think it is true that it goes back to thousands years or is it just a myth?
The modern sport version was introduced in the mid 1900’s. The concept, jacket, and techniques, are much, much older though.
Nice hat the new fatal fury is coming out next year
Could you do a vid on actual ancient chinese styles?
th-cam.com/video/fcmSdQrL4Yo/w-d-xo.htmlsi=FyCI57EGfNxABms_
Here the most ancient Chinese martial art of all time
Pick a language and stick to it gets weird when you say omoplata. This is an old Portuguese word that means shoulder blade. So I’d describe the omoplata as, “do the shoulder blade?”
Also more people need to make fun of John Danaher, the yoda of jiujitsu who has a doctorate in “Yapology”
If you have a perfectly functional word or phrase for a thing in your language like "strength", or "push", or "pull", or "triangle choke", it's much less efficient to say those things in a foreign language. If you don't already have a simple workable translation for a complex movement figure, like "omoplata", but Portuguese does, then borrowing the word makes sense.
All the Chinese words that tai chi nerds use (and often misuse) have perfectly good English translations. There is no need to pretend that badly pronounced Mandarin offers any magical benefits to martial arts training.
Omoplata is a bjj move. Not weird on this type of channel
@@FritzDWhite Omoplata originally is a Judo move called ashi sankaku garami adopted into bjj.
@@bravelilspidey cool man, I didn't know. Thanks