I am a WinME fan as well, never had issue with it. Ofcource in those times I wanted to experience the latest technology and didn't care about lack of MSDOS. A big chunk of my childhood memories is with WinME anyways and it always gives me good vibe.
I feel the same way. It did feel like a real step forward back then. Didn't look much different, but it sure felt a lot more stable and had a lot more ease of use features. Especially when it came to networking.
yeah, I had Win2000, Win 98SE and WinME. WinME was my favorite and it run flawlessly with a new machine (P3 1Ghz, Geforce2, etc). Never tried it on older system tbh.
Likewise, I had positive experiences with Me back in 2000. I picked up a System which came with Windows Me pre-installed. It was quick and I didn't experience any issues with it. It was rock solid stable. I think because a number of Tech blogs / Sites back in the day had an issue with Me, Lots of others who have NEVER touched it jump on the bandwagon. If I see Windows Me appearing on another "Worst OS Ever" List... I will lose my Shed!
Yep i am a fan also. I used it back in the day and it was way more reliable than Windows 98. I use it today on all my old hardware and it is still as reliable today as it was when it was released.
I also liked WinME and had zero issues with it. I'm convinced most of the "problems" people said they had with it are just people who jumped on the bandwagon after a handful of bad reviews online.
Fun Fact: That closet you were hacking into at the start of System Shock 2 has a passcode of 00000. I also prefer 800x600 in that game instead of 1024x768 because at 800x600 the vertical MFDs show up at the bottom corners instead of top corners, which I find more comfortable to read. Beyond that, the main reason I avoided ME since forever was not because it was "bad" but specifically because of the lack of proper DOS support.
@@the_kombinator There wasn't a year 1, 10, or 100 either. The AD/CE year numbering was an arbitrarily established numbering anyway. So why be pedantic about it, when that just makes things more difficult for everyone. It's meant as a measure of elapsed time, and ages don't automatically start as one year old, you aren't one year old until a year has elapsed. Besides, computer numbering starts at "0" anyway.
@@SenileOtaku This guy has heard and embraces "Korean age" for children :P Right about the binary 0. Too bad binary is a recent interpretation, and even it, in any bit representation, is still 0. Meaning nothing. There was never a year nothing. More to your point, the millenium had to FINISH at some point, to usher in a new one. This happened at the end of the year 1000, and at the end of the year 2000. Shit son, every decade starts at a 0 - 1990, at its completion, was the first year of that decade. I'd also love to know who these "everyone" is - Show up upvotes? Or logic.
The first PC I had access to was an HP Windows ME computer. ME was pre installed and I never had any stability issues. I remember playing tons of great games on that computer. Dark Forces II, Half Life, Galactic Battlegrounds and of course Age of Empires. It was my grandmother’s computer and I remember going over every weekend in the summers to play games on it. She eventually gave me the computer a few years later, and I still have it to this day. I’m very nostalgic for Windows ME.
I went from 95 to ME back in the day (after it was patched) and found it to be quite nice. My most vivid memory of Win98 was the never-disappearing “shutting down” window.
@@vardekpetrovic9716 2k was windows NT and only meant for businesses. Calling someone a fool for not purchasing a completely different line of OSes not marketed to them is rather silly.
@@vardekpetrovic9716 Same. I had the same issue with ME on launch that Vista had on launch: driver vendors were not really "ready." Systems would go unstable real quick if you by chance mixed-and-matched legacy VXD and newer WDM drivers. Going back and installing things today with the benefit of upgrades and proper driver packs isn't exactly the same "experience" as doing the upgrade on-launch.
Great video Phil ,used Windows ME in my İnternet Cafe in 2000 to 2001 .It had a great advantage. It was the first with system restore which was great for us İnternet Cafe owners .A solid platform ran all of my Voodoo series without any problems.
I like WinME. It was my first "desktop" OS (after father's corporate Win95-98 laptops) and I never had any issues with it on my P3-866/Geforce GTS2 rig.
Very good video! Windows ME is a very good alternative to 98 nowadays to be used in retro hardware, as USB support is much better and you don't need any workaround to use HID devices such as mouse&keyboard or built-in support for USB sticks. Much faster than XP in machines like Pentium 3 (my favourite era) with most of 98se advantages if you enable DOS support!
I really love that you are rehabilitating computer parts and old OS that are a bit unloved. P4 and WinMe?? Get the pitchforks!! : ) Great video! Nice to see you also showing off joystick hardware... something that is not covered a lot here on YT. Might be a great video topic for the future comparing stick performance and software.
512MB is plenty! I remember running XP regularly with 256, SOMETIMES 512 (at least in the early 00s up until 1-4gb was cheap). Remember using 98 with 64MB for awhile and eventually 128MB. And then Win2k at 384MB.It's funny how little ram we needed for so long.
@@riccardoiovenitti8688 as soon as we made the jump out of 32bit, things have run away with memory usage. And with so much available for so cheap now, nobody ever tries to optimize either. Honestly preferred the 32bit days where there was more of a push to optimize and make the best with the least. Imagine that + modern languages that are even more efficient…
@@riccardoiovenitti8688Windows and macOS anyway. Plus browsers come with so much stuff preloaded, it's insane how quickly developers threw out memory and code optimization in favor of ease and comfort and how we as users got used to it.
I vaguely remember running a 486 dx/66 with 4mb of ram, then in a span of a week going to 8 then 16 mb. Win 95 didn't install on 4, ran very badly on 8, and was fine on 16. Games were terrible, but win 95 ran fine.
17:50 exactly my point. Why Windows Me if 98 SE does almost everything Me does but not hinder you to either exit to DOS or start in DOS and there is no software that I'm aware of that runs under Me but not under 98.
WinME was Microsoft's attempt to hide DOS under a rock, but it was still there. Most of us back in the day dual booted Win98/Win2k. Win2k (NT) was a pure 32bit OS without the 16bit DOS, and also had multi-processor support (for those of us who owned a VP6, BP6 or similar). Win2k also had much better parallel port management. This can be demonstrated using a scanner, zipdrive and printer daisychained to the PP. If you try to use them at the same time on 98 it will most certainly crash. Win2k has no problem and data transfer in much faster on the zipdive. This may require changing the parallel port setting in the BIOS though.
And Win2K has a generic USB mass storage driver built in you just plug in a mass storage device like a USB stick either FAT32 or NTFS formatted and it will show up in Explorer.
Oh, and I just signed up for patreon. You've helped so much with my hobby, and your website is an awesome resource .Thanks for your dedication to all things pc.
SS is an amazing game. Second the headphones recommendation. Sound in that game is so useful. Can hear things through walls and around corners. Save yourself from being prematurely discovered (if at all) or walking into a room unprepared. Most of my PC gaming started and was spent on WinME since that's what my machine came with (later qualified for a free XP upgrade due to timing) and I don't remember having too many of the issues people seem to associate with WinME other than the obfuscation of any DOS mode, which wasn't something I used much of anyway.
I remember the horrors of Windows ME back in the day, when the hardware was new and the OS was released it was so buggy that many offices and departments made it company policy to not allow Windows ME into their network. As repair technicians we had such a high return rate for broken and/or crashing Windows ME systems that our manager made it policy to just offer a downgrade to Windows 98SE for free, and it became policy for when selling new systems to discourage users from selecting Windows ME. It had nothing to do with dos or game compatibility, but rather production workloads like accounting or bookkeeping, even Microsoft Office was unstable on ME. If you were just gaming it wasn't too bad, but the productivity applications all suffered for it. Still to this day it sticks out in my mind as one of the worst releases of Windows Microsoft made, up there along side Windows Vista.
That was my experience using Windows ME in a strictly work environment (a small business where I was the defacto IT guy). Machines that crashed regularly under ME worked much, much better when we upgraded to XP.
Never had any issues with Win ME back in the day. I was not playing DOS games anymore and didn't miss any lack of DOS boot capability. 2 years ago when I found your channel and started to revive my RetroPC stuff (had a couple of motherboards like ABIT SE6, Epox 8KA7, some Pentium 3 and Athlon XP CPUs, as well a Voodoo 3, Voodoo 5 and a Vortex 2 card there were stored in the last 20 years), I struggled a lit bit of how to setup things again. Had most files stored in CDs, but forgot completely the tips and tricks to make things work together. I also got some extra hardware during these 2 years (some Athlon64 and Slot 1 boards and CPUs, some ISA sound cards, etc) in order to have more choices and experimenting. I won't recall now which combination didn't work, one of my trial runs was not working on Windows 98Se (computer would crash after installing drivers), I tried Win ME and it worked out of the box, with same drivers. So yes Phil, you're right, do not discard choices like Win ME just because of reputation: you might be locking yourself out of a good choice that might work. On the Pentium 4 with Intel chipset... I grabbed some ECS motherboards (like P4VMM2) with VIA chipset for 2 reasons: it has universal AGP and it works with my Voodoos, whereas the Intel is AGP 1.5V only. The other thing is that VIA chipset works well with PCI sound cards like Yamaha YMF 7x4 and ESS1938 for native DOS sound. I'm bought one Intel P4 board from Aopen but unfortunately it was defective and I returned it to the seller - I could not verify its friendness with those PCI sound cards. Also thanks for the game suggestion, I will try Tachyon (only USD 1 today at GoG for me). It looks like a nice game. And don't forget to try Freespace 1&2 (avaiable on GoG also), nice missions, good history, massive capital ships.... you should check them out.... in my memory the best space combat game I played back on those days, before WinXp era. Cheers!
I actually liked Windows ME much more than Windows 98SE. I had very little issues with it as compared to Windows 98SE. Windows ME was great for gaming. Then I got a coupon for a free upgrade to Windows XP Home from MicroCenter and it was just wow. I have good Memories of Windows ME. I did a clean install of it instead of an upgrade. That may have been the reason it was so stable for me. Great Video.
1995-2000 era of gaming interests me the most so Win98SE gives the perfect range of compatibility, X Wing, Wing Commander, Doom to Quake 3 and Unreal Tournament.. all under one OS.
This is great Phil. I'd love to see what you meant about restoring DOS mode. I stuck with 98 back in the day well into the XP era, because of the ME horror stories.
The first Windows PC my family had ran Windows ME. It was one of those Compaq Presario 5000 models with the purple plastic disc holder on the front of the case. It had a 1 GHz Pentium III but unfortunately had no AGP slot. It would have made a great Windows 98/ME gaming machine with a GPU upgrade if it did. It did play Command & Conquer/Red Alert/Red Alert 2, though, and that's all I cared about in the year 2001!
Ahhh machines without AGP slot are so annoying! It really limits your options. S3 Virge, Matrox Mystique and of course Voodoo 3 come to mind for suitable card.
Excellent! In Russia Windows ME in joke was named Windows Linoleum and it was not so popular as Windows 98SE, but a bootspeed and Win2K liked interface were very impressive. Sorry my English, please.
I had no problems with ME back in the day. I did turn off the restore feature which noticeably slowed the computer down. I also removed the massive amount of bloatware and trial software that many computers had in that time period. It also helped that my ME was OEM to the computer which means I didn't have driver issues that the people installing ME may of had.
Windows Me was my favourite operating system back in the early 2000's, basically until XP was released. I had no idea why there was so much negativity around it back then, i loved it. I think it's starting to garner a more warm reception. Maybe some nostalgia involved there. Thanks for the review, i might build a Me retro pc myself and relive the 2000s again haha.
Great video Phil, the Win ME audio and visuals have always drawn me in and really have had very few problems when comes to hardware and or software compatibility/stability issues except with handful of exceptions.
I went from win95 to ME back in the day. Shortly after I also got a w2k machine for running business applications... that was a very stable machine which I absolutely loved. Over time I found myself running more and more of my games on that w2k machine, and the ME PC fell by the wayside. Not because I was unhappy with ME, but because the w2k PC ran all my new games and work applications flawlessly. ME just became redundant over time. I found w2k to be so good in fact, I held onto it as long as I could. Ended up skipping xp and went straight to win7 when forced to upgrade... :)
One theory I heard about Windows Me instability was mixing VXD and WDM drivers together. For the most stable possible theoretical Windows Me setup you need all WDM drivers. That being said I've never wanted to try Windows Me ever again because I still have flashbacks of it having BSOD's all the time before it eventually bricked itself by corrupting the file system beyond repair.
WDM drivers were introduced in Win98. I used WDM driver for AWE64 from W2k installation, because it played 48kHz samples on 44,1 kHz soundcard with much better quality. And I have never problem with crashes, sometimes just mixer menu was a little broken.
It absolutely was. Instability was similar to 9x running VXD drivers, possibly a little worse when mixing the two driver models but couldn't confirm if that was the specific issue. If you gave it WDM drivers it was just fine.
I remember my experience with ME was on a Pentium 4 1.3 or 1.4ghz Willamette (can't remember which model exactly) with a measly 256MB of ram and a Riva TNT. XP ran like hot garbage but ME was so smooth it was actually insane. Though part of that was also my antivirus, for whatever reason it seemed to use significantly less CPU on ME.
It actually was probably more due to how ME interacted with early ACPI and APM. 98SE used a eariler version of the driver for it while ME and XP used a later version that was buggy and crashed on a lot of systems. SP2 fixed that for XP but ME never got any updates so this is why many people had bad experiances with it.
I grew up with Windows 3.1 and 95 but the first computer for my room and that I tore apart was a Dell Dimension 4100 P3 933 MHz with Windows Me. I still have it and i recently put an SSD in it and reloaded Me. It runs great! Let me tell you having native USB Support is such a massive time saver!
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I always kept quiet about ME, because the retro community loves to bash on it. But everytime I used it I had zero issues and ran much, much better than 98SE. Sometimes I like to think that Win98 is overrated.
I was a tech at a computer store when ME came out. Those were the days when most computers people bought were build in small computer stores like where I worked. Even after ME came out almost every customer still wanted Windows 98 because they were told horror stories. The only issue I recall running into was with some older hardware not having drivers that worked well with ME. I myself was a Windows 98 holdout. Not because I didn't like ME, but because I still played DOS games and absolutely loved Windows 98 SE. Thanks for the entertaining video!
This makes me want to move my Socket A rig back to ME. I love 98, but I've had to become best friends with Scanreg just to keep running whenever it decides to throw a fit.
Funny enough I'm working on the same kind of thing but I'm upgrading a Presario 7000 with an Intel 865PE-based motherboard with a 3.2GHz P4HT. Granted, ME only uses 1 thread... but I also plan to use 2000 on it.
I think is an excellent decision to resume from saves, when you can, for the games you show. It gives the sensation of continuation, and for you may result more engaging and entertaining while you are producing your great videos!
tbh the only disadvantage of WinMe that was very noticeable for me was lack of pure DOS mode without patching the system files or using the bootdisk everytime you want to use pure DOS mode
Thank you Phil. I was waiting for you to try to use WinME again. With the MS-DOS mod, you'll have the best of Windows stability (sans internet browsing, just reboot) and all the safety features that are standard equipment now. THANK YOU!!! I kept trying to tell people WinME got a bad rap around the Capacitor Plague era. If it wasn't for that, it would likely have lasted a bit longer even though WinNT was the future..
I absolutely loved WinMe, and still nowadays I keep it in a Virtual Machine. I liked the stability, the look and the fact that finally I didn't have to format my PC once a month (being lucky) with Win98. I ever kept in a dual boot system with WinXP for an year, using both, without ANY issue. The peak of Win9x family for me.
Everybody seems to complain about Win Me.... i used it back in the day on my Asus P2B with a P2 233. Completely stable for me. I really loved Win Me until XP came around (yes i ran win XP on a pentium 2 233)
My MX440 128bit has become my go-to W98 card because "it just works" and is very compatible in DOS. I actually threw it out in the trash when I first got it as part of a local PC pick up but then decided to keep it and it still works fine about 5 years later despite literally zero love and care lol
Windows ME caused me kidney failure, my spleen to rupture, liver damage and caused an extreme rise in my blood pressure. It was not very good for me. But I'm all better now!
Shocked at all the people who like ME. It was the least stable OS I've ever used (and I remember how unstable the original 95 was). Everyone I know that had it either downgraded to 98SE or to 2000 for stability and much better compatibility with software/games.
My recollection is that the issue was never ME on initial startup or installation. It is fine on a clean installation. It was the cumulative experience over time, of using the OS, installing new apps and games, and then trying to uninstall programs/drivers so you can install new ones. ME just didn't age terribly well with the user, prone to serious driver conflicts that led to system-breaking problems. It wasn't stable and produced far too many BSODs. This kind of "Was ME really that bad?" video is never going to show that. Why? In a modern TH-camr project, you're usually looking at a short period of time to build the system, install the OS and software, then evaluate its performance. That could be a week or less, before needing to reach a conclusion, write a video, shoot it, and then move on to making new content. This leads to quickly breaking down the machine again into parts (or perhaps installing a different OS) before such problems can rear their heads. That isn't enough time for ME to show its warts, at least not if we're talking about ME as it was on its initial release. A long term project where it is used for 6-9 months would be really interesting, especially if starting with the unpatched original edition. What I recall is that I ended up ditching ME and instead going with 2000/NT, which was comparatively rock solid, until XP came out. The short gap between release dates, of June 2000 (ME) to August 2001 (XP), was so very short for a good reason. In its day, ME was a tire fire. Microsoft had to move quickly to staunch the bleeding. Fortunately, XP was a great OS.
Phil, you are awesome, retro gaming is the best gaming right now. I never played System Shock 2 back then but I remember it was praised for it atmosFEAR. I think System Shock 2 was the inspiration for creating Half-Life. Transferring save files from project to project and showing more of the games is the way to go, thank you!
I never had any problem with WinME. At that time I was a computer science student. And I pushed my computer at the limit with Delphi, VB6, SQL Server, IIS...
Wow, I had forgotten about Tachyon, this used to be one of my favorite games, thanks for the reminder and thank you for your videos, they are great fun and have encouraged me to build myself and my daughter Retro PCs (Win XP - Athlon 64 x2 based).
I really liked Windows ME at time. Kinda of a relief using ME after 98 because 98 was prone to crash in the hardware I was using at time. ME just works. It was just fine as end-user. People complaining at time that I remember were people from some offices, but well, this version wasn't meant for them anyway.
Great video, I use ME on my Dell Inspiron 8100 as it has more stable USB support than 98SE plus the sound card doesn't support true DOS mode anyways. It also does give better performance on late Pentium 3 / early Pentium 4 systems when compared to 2000/XP! Only thing I will say is to disable system restore as it never worked properly under ME and just wastes disk space.
My first machine came with Windows 98, but one day in 2001 the hard drive failed. (Presumably.) Dad took it to the local independent computer shop, and it came back with ME. A couple of the shareware games I liked to play didn't work properly, but everything else did once reinstalled. I suspect it worked fine because it was a clean install and the shop knew which drivers would avoid issues. As a young'un I didn't know how to use DOS mode anyway. "Lucky" for me, I got to experience the horror stories about driver incompatibility with Vista 5 or 6 years later. It was a machine which came preinstalled with it, but it somehow still had issues, and plugging in a printer designed for XP made the whole system crash. I installed XP on that laptop within a couple months.
I vividly remember the driver issues during the first 6 months after Vista. Scanner not working. TV tuner not working. Printer not working. Mobile broadband modem not working...
@@philscomputerlab this unlocked memories of that disappointment, 6-9 months after release, when people realised their particular peripheral wasn’t included in the swath of driver updates and probably wasn’t ever going to be.
@@kaitlyn__L It was THE opportunity to drop support and force you buy a new scanner. Dispute you owning the high end precious model, perfectly functioning... I worked at a computer store back in the day and we offered a service to business customers. If the machine has Vista Business you could downgrade to XP. The service centre made a killing with that and even us sales guys learnt about this and promoted it. I think we were one of the few stores offering this service, customers were begging for laptops with XP. Later companies like Toshiba even shipped us XP Images to help sell more of their Toshiba Tecra business machines...
@@philscomputerlab So many conversations about what they were going to do with their old scanner/printer… Funnily enough a bunch of people I knew at the time took that opportunity to switch to Mac. I don’t think it was explicitly a conspiracy, but I do think the manufacturers all realised Vista was a huge opportunity to just Conveniently choose not to update their equipment and force an extra sale sooner than their usual obsolescence cycle would. Some of those press releases about “unfortunately, we can’t offer updates at this time. However we will offer a $20 rebate on purchase of a new printer or scanner” were just… sickeningly self-serving and full of corporate, fake, upbeat turns of phrase. Honestly, I’m amazed that my 2009? 10? Canon printer still has ink cartridges available and doesn’t use a DRM chip (or it was reverse engineered right away). Some people seem to need an entirely new printer every 2-3 years nowadays due to very slight changes to the cartridges. I can certainly understand why Big Clive modified a late-90s printer to take bulk ink fed directly to the heads.
There are some interesting things that Windows ME does with DOS memory management which aren't well advertised. I've seen some other youtubers "restore" DOS mode and becausue of the changes to memory management you don't quite need to fuss as much with freeing up Conventional memory. At least that's what it looked like. That youtuber didn't play any games though. You might consider looking into that.
Nice revisit. I had less issues from ME. I remember many nights reinstalling 95 and being disappointed when 98 restores didn’t work. So yeah, I was good with ME. Don’t really recall having issues with old games… maybe Ultima 7… fuzzy memories ya know.
I had the same years ago. At time I used this OS I don't played much DOS games so that lack of exit to DOS wasn't problem for me. For me Windows ME worked always as good as 98SE. By the way at 98SE when folder was copied to HDD from CD that folder files were set as read-only, at Windows ME they had normal attributes. Even when was created shortcut by clicking "Send to" desktop at 98SE by clicking right at file "start in" wasn't populated in propeteries which is solved at ME.
I bought Sytrm Shock 2 back in the day. THE creepiest soundtrack I have ever heard. Movies included. A lesson in sound design. That back ground hum still makes my nerves go on edge. Thanks. I am curious as to what sort of costs you incurred in building this.
On a solid system ME works well. Low overhead on circa 2000 gaming. My hardware is on either side of this era, i have a solid 98 system and a solid XP system.
Nice to see the os getting some appreciation. It is what it is. Ahead of its time, and thus hardware of the day steuggled to cope. Vista had the same problem. Niwadays though with cherry picked hardware both can be rock solid stable.
WinMe has become my go-to test OS for retro hardware (even if the machine will ultimately run something else). I don't always use an SSD in an adapter that I can easily plug into my main PC, so the out of the box USB storage support and more robust network stack compared to 98 are invaluable features. It's also proven to be remarkably forgiving when using the same install on another computer; for the most part its just boots, finds some built-in drivers, and works.
I used ME for a while back in the day, right up until Microsoft's Rise of Legends game came out and required Windows XP. Spent the first few hours of a LAN party upgrading everyone's PC so we could all play that game lol.
I never used ME, but i remember it being the butt of all jokes at the time. I went from 3.11, to 95, to 98, to XP. I used Vista briefly but didn't like it much. 7 was what Vista should've been it seems. skipped 8 but went to 8.1 or whatever the updated one was with the start menu. and finally Win10. Not a fan of 11 at all (have it at work). It's interesting how it seems every other windows release is a bust. 2000 was solid, we had it in college on everything and while i worked at the computer lab i developed and appreciated for its stability.
I'd be very interested in a DOS-mode-restored testing of Windows ME. I had ME back in the day, for a fairly long time actually because I was a bit late jumping to XP. It certainly wasn't any more unstable than 98 that's for sure. On a semi-related tangent, have you ever tried installing an Audigy 2 ZS in DOS with the Audigy 1 driver? It would make a compelling option for a fast, late 9x focused but DOS-compatible build such as this one, provided it works as some claim.
OK Phil are you a mind reader? While digging around in the basement I found a New copy of Win Me still in the box. I have had this for many years BTW. I also have the Same exact sound card and Vid card too. CPU is no problem and neither is the Mem. What is the largest SSD I can use with ME I'll figure out. I do have some old games to try again. Only issue is the motherboard that I don't have. So I'll have to dig around some more and see if I have one somewhere. On the other hand I do have a an IBM with a P4 3.0ghz and a Radeon X850XTX card that works just fine. Might be worth a try. I'll check that website that you mentioned for drivers and get the others from Lenovo. Many Thanks for keeping this stuff alive and well!
With me I have seen Windows ME as a mixed bag because it all depends on the hardware that you had installed inside of your PC. My dad had a Sony VIAO mini laptop that had Windows Me on it and it ran like absolute garbage that sucker blue screened every chance it had but once he upgraded to Windows 2000 that machine became so much better. My two friends had PIII 500mhz machines both running Windows Me and both machines ran it just fine. With me I tried Windows Me for about 30 seconds because of the lack of DOS support so I went back to Windows 98 SE.
@PhilsComputerLab Phil, you were very objective here and while I personally disagree with your ultimate conclusion, you were very fair in your observations and showing just how good WinME actually was. Well done, well done indeed!
I was wondering what you use for a hardware test bench Phil. I'm guessing that you've mentioned it in one or more of your many other videos. Is it something that you constructed yourself or something you purchased? Which hardware test bench would you recommend?
I will never understand the fuzz about Windows Me. I used it for quite a while, and for a lot of different tasks (not just gaming) without any memorable issues with it. Anyway, great video as usual, thank you!
I used ME several months ago for testing a VIA Tualatin Board, and ME run flawlessly. But yes, it was no long time test and no daily use PC. Back in the day, it was horrible. I had to reinstall ME every second month or so. Random BSODs. I also think it had something to do with drivers and which specific Hardware were in use. I was 13 and had no idea about wdm and vdx drivers. I installed the bundled drivers cause we dont had Internet. Only graphics drivers were updates with every new PC Action issue (Germany) :-D Great times, best magazine. But yes, installed Win98, problem solved. Maybe the drivers we pick today are more matured.
Back then I had a pre-build with Windows Me, it was a Pentium 3 with 750MHz, 768MB RAM, graphics card I can't remember. It worked for me without any problems and, to be honest, I found Windows Me totally okay
Zalman made a true 5.1 surround sound headphone during this era - I still have one, and other than my own damaged hearing, they’re still great! They’re strange looking, most definitely, but they’re somewhat collapsible and has an insanely long cord with three jacks for your sound card. Hope you can find a set, they’re quite nice especially given their age.
i used ME for years and was very happy with it. You can play most dos games in windows just by clicking on them. If you really want pure DOS mode you can get it, but you don't need it the vast majority of the time.
Just like in 98 you can edit MSDOS.SYS to prevent the GUI from running at startup. Setup a boot menu to either load the DOS mode drivers, or to boot windows on the command line. It's easier to do then you think.
I am curious to try Windows ME, after seeing this video and LGR's review/retrospective of it. I only remember one person using Windows ME back in the day, but I wasn't aware of it's terrible reputation at the time XD.
yeah you can restore the DOS „real“ mode. I personally even removed all windows ME commonents so just DOS 8 was left. a TL;DR of dos8. in 99% of cases it’s just like dos7. two things really stand out for me: the microsoft provided memory management is completely broken so you need a third party one (which are in my opinion better than the MS one anyway). format /s doesn’t work. otherwise it’s so far just like dos7
I remember some people giving ME a try back when it was released to. It got a lot of bad press at the time but honestly, my impression of it was always that it was just a worthy update to Windows 98SE. It wasn't particularly necessary since at the time of its release there was less and less reason to run 98SE: games had largely all become compatible with NT/2K and drivers for NT/2K were available for basically all new enthusiast tier hardware. This wasn't always the case but at the time ME came out it largely was so Windows 2000 was the windows of choice and ME fell a little flat amongst enthusiasts. That said it was just fine so long as you had drivers. It basically required WDM drivers and a lot of people were attempting to run old VXD drivers with it which led to instability. If you gave it appropriate, contemporary hardware with the right drivers it was fine... just didn't really serve much purpose except niche cases when you absolutely needed 9X/DOS compatibility although from memory you had to enable this manually.
Imo games back in the days didn’t have the same visual immersion as today so developers put so much more emphasis on sound. I wish that modern games put more time on sound quality for immersion.
My first new computer the purple compaq came with windows me so I'm fond of me. I have a cool oem sony computer that I upgraded from 700mhz piii to 1.4 ghz piii. I found a sony oem recovery on archive that actually installed and is windows me, came with original bloat and even store demos!
Windows Me was my daily driver in the early 2000s, and I fortunately didn't have a lot of stability issues compared to Windows 98 SE. The only real drawback was the removal of the Restart in MS-DOS mode option. I was a bit confused by the OS-tan Windows Me memes, but I guess a lot of people had trouble with it back in the day.
Which games are easier to run on Windows ME instead of XP? Is there an advantage to using an 9x/ME OS over XP, other than games which require DOS under to hood, such as NFS 1?
The reason the WDM drivers support CD audio in a virtual machine is because the operating system directly reads the audio tracks and plays them in software.
The Audigy2ZS is such a great piece of hardware, I still use mine to this day (bought a PCI to PCI-E bridge just for that), with the unofficial "kX" drivers, it offers possibilities in terms of audio routing and processing in real time that only very high end modern solutions could realistically rival with. It's an amazing card, though it's 96KHz/24bits capabilities are kinda limited.
Indeed! I have mine too and a SoundBlaster Z. I understand for some people is enough on board audio, but for me it isn't. Not only I use some pro audio editing tools but the quality of the sound is totally different. I gave on board audio a chance several times and always was crappy and with "electrical noise" or issues like that. Not with my SBs! I hope soundcards keep being a thing in the future, even for specific uses...
98SE2ME can apply some of the eye candy from WinME such as bringing the Explorer shell to 98SE. The internet games option is bugged, but the servers no longer work anyways. Some of the system files introduce bugs that don't exist in the 98SE equivalents, but also resolves bugs from older 98SE system files at the same time. Apparently WinME includes the Win2K TCP/IP stack that is left out in 98SE2ME. MDGx has update packs for WinME but they were not as well supported as the U98SESP. I stick with 98SE on any retro PCs as it's quick and easy to install and update while having the flexibility to go into DOS.
I used Windows ME many times even on laptops and I don't had any problems with that OS. I only had little problem when it installed WDM driver for soundcard at ThinkPad T20 instead VXD one that was more suitable for DOS games there, but I was able to install VXD driver for soundcard without problem.
I am a WinME fan as well, never had issue with it. Ofcource in those times I wanted to experience the latest technology and didn't care about lack of MSDOS. A big chunk of my childhood memories is with WinME anyways and it always gives me good vibe.
I feel the same way. It did feel like a real step forward back then. Didn't look much different, but it sure felt a lot more stable and had a lot more ease of use features. Especially when it came to networking.
yeah, I had Win2000, Win 98SE and WinME. WinME was my favorite and it run flawlessly with a new machine (P3 1Ghz, Geforce2, etc). Never tried it on older system tbh.
Likewise, I had positive experiences with Me back in 2000. I picked up a System which came with Windows Me pre-installed. It was quick and I didn't experience any issues with it. It was rock solid stable.
I think because a number of Tech blogs / Sites back in the day had an issue with Me, Lots of others who have NEVER touched it jump on the bandwagon.
If I see Windows Me appearing on another "Worst OS Ever" List... I will lose my Shed!
Yep i am a fan also. I used it back in the day and it was way more reliable than Windows 98. I use it today on all my old hardware and it is still as reliable today as it was when it was released.
I also liked WinME and had zero issues with it. I'm convinced most of the "problems" people said they had with it are just people who jumped on the bandwagon after a handful of bad reviews online.
Fun Fact: That closet you were hacking into at the start of System Shock 2 has a passcode of 00000. I also prefer 800x600 in that game instead of 1024x768 because at 800x600 the vertical MFDs show up at the bottom corners instead of top corners, which I find more comfortable to read. Beyond that, the main reason I avoided ME since forever was not because it was "bad" but specifically because of the lack of proper DOS support.
Great comment, thank you 👍
Phil is celebrating the new millennium and has finally upgraded to MS DOS 8!
...except that the new millenium was actually on the cusp of 2000-2001.
Show me a year 0 and I'll renounce my logic :P
@@the_kombinator ...000000001
@@Thomas.Falcone are you parity checking me?
@@the_kombinator There wasn't a year 1, 10, or 100 either. The AD/CE year numbering was an arbitrarily established numbering anyway. So why be pedantic about it, when that just makes things more difficult for everyone. It's meant as a measure of elapsed time, and ages don't automatically start as one year old, you aren't one year old until a year has elapsed.
Besides, computer numbering starts at "0" anyway.
@@SenileOtaku This guy has heard and embraces "Korean age" for children :P
Right about the binary 0. Too bad binary is a recent interpretation, and even it, in any bit representation, is still 0. Meaning nothing. There was never a year nothing.
More to your point, the millenium had to FINISH at some point, to usher in a new one. This happened at the end of the year 1000, and at the end of the year 2000. Shit son, every decade starts at a 0 - 1990, at its completion, was the first year of that decade.
I'd also love to know who these "everyone" is - Show up upvotes? Or logic.
The first PC I had access to was an HP Windows ME computer. ME was pre installed and I never had any stability issues. I remember playing tons of great games on that computer. Dark Forces II, Half Life, Galactic Battlegrounds and of course Age of Empires. It was my grandmother’s computer and I remember going over every weekend in the summers to play games on it. She eventually gave me the computer a few years later, and I still have it to this day. I’m very nostalgic for Windows ME.
I went from 95 to ME back in the day (after it was patched) and found it to be quite nice.
My most vivid memory of Win98 was the never-disappearing “shutting down” window.
I liked WinME back in the day, it did boot quickly. I didn't find it that unstable, I think the issue at the time was the removal of DOS modes.
We kept Windows 98 SE, or NT
Was Me only for minimal builds ?
@@vardekpetrovic9716 2k was windows NT and only meant for businesses. Calling someone a fool for not purchasing a completely different line of OSes not marketed to them is rather silly.
@@vardekpetrovic9716 Same. I had the same issue with ME on launch that Vista had on launch: driver vendors were not really "ready." Systems would go unstable real quick if you by chance mixed-and-matched legacy VXD and newer WDM drivers.
Going back and installing things today with the benefit of upgrades and proper driver packs isn't exactly the same "experience" as doing the upgrade on-launch.
@@UncleUncleRj Yeah I remember the days of getting patched drivers for voodoo cards to work with Win2k. Good times
Of course, the removal of the DOS modes contributed to the speed of booting... swings and roundabouts
My first computer had windows ME. It was a gateway with 800mhz celeron. Played Diablo 2 and Baldurs gate like a champ.
Great video Phil ,used Windows ME in my İnternet Cafe in 2000 to 2001 .It had a great advantage. It was the first with system restore which was great for us İnternet Cafe owners .A solid platform ran all of my Voodoo series without any problems.
I like WinME. It was my first "desktop" OS (after father's corporate Win95-98 laptops) and I never had any issues with it on my P3-866/Geforce GTS2 rig.
Very good video! Windows ME is a very good alternative to 98 nowadays to be used in retro hardware, as USB support is much better and you don't need any workaround to use HID devices such as mouse&keyboard or built-in support for USB sticks. Much faster than XP in machines like Pentium 3 (my favourite era) with most of 98se advantages if you enable DOS support!
I really love that you are rehabilitating computer parts and old OS that are a bit unloved. P4 and WinMe?? Get the pitchforks!! : )
Great video! Nice to see you also showing off joystick hardware... something that is not covered a lot here on YT. Might be a great video topic for the future comparing stick performance and software.
512MB is plenty! I remember running XP regularly with 256, SOMETIMES 512 (at least in the early 00s up until 1-4gb was cheap). Remember using 98 with 64MB for awhile and eventually 128MB. And then Win2k at 384MB.It's funny how little ram we needed for so long.
Yea with 98 most had 64 or 128 if I remember...
To do more and less the samr thigs. Current OSs consume 10 fold the memory just to present you some fancy icons nothing more. It's frustrating
@@riccardoiovenitti8688 as soon as we made the jump out of 32bit, things have run away with memory usage. And with so much available for so cheap now, nobody ever tries to optimize either.
Honestly preferred the 32bit days where there was more of a push to optimize and make the best with the least. Imagine that + modern languages that are even more efficient…
@@riccardoiovenitti8688Windows and macOS anyway.
Plus browsers come with so much stuff preloaded, it's insane how quickly developers threw out memory and code optimization in favor of ease and comfort and how we as users got used to it.
I vaguely remember running a 486 dx/66 with 4mb of ram, then in a span of a week going to 8 then 16 mb. Win 95 didn't install on 4, ran very badly on 8, and was fine on 16. Games were terrible, but win 95 ran fine.
17:50 exactly my point. Why Windows Me if 98 SE does almost everything Me does but not hinder you to either exit to DOS or start in DOS and there is no software that I'm aware of that runs under Me but not under 98.
WinME was Microsoft's attempt to hide DOS under a rock, but it was still there. Most of us back in the day dual booted Win98/Win2k. Win2k (NT) was a pure 32bit OS without the 16bit DOS, and also had multi-processor support (for those of us who owned a VP6, BP6 or similar). Win2k also had much better parallel port management. This can be demonstrated using a scanner, zipdrive and printer daisychained to the PP. If you try to use them at the same time on 98 it will most certainly crash. Win2k has no problem and data transfer in much faster on the zipdive. This may require changing the parallel port setting in the BIOS though.
And Win2K has a generic USB mass storage driver built in you just plug in a mass storage device like a USB stick either FAT32 or NTFS formatted and it will show up in Explorer.
Oh, and I just signed up for patreon. You've helped so much with my hobby, and your website is an awesome resource .Thanks for your dedication to all things pc.
Awesome, thank you!
thank you for making important resources far more accessible for us retro computing enthusiasts, phil!
SS is an amazing game. Second the headphones recommendation. Sound in that game is so useful. Can hear things through walls and around corners. Save yourself from being prematurely discovered (if at all) or walking into a room unprepared. Most of my PC gaming started and was spent on WinME since that's what my machine came with (later qualified for a free XP upgrade due to timing) and I don't remember having too many of the issues people seem to associate with WinME other than the obfuscation of any DOS mode, which wasn't something I used much of anyway.
I remember the horrors of Windows ME back in the day, when the hardware was new and the OS was released it was so buggy that many offices and departments made it company policy to not allow Windows ME into their network. As repair technicians we had such a high return rate for broken and/or crashing Windows ME systems that our manager made it policy to just offer a downgrade to Windows 98SE for free, and it became policy for when selling new systems to discourage users from selecting Windows ME. It had nothing to do with dos or game compatibility, but rather production workloads like accounting or bookkeeping, even Microsoft Office was unstable on ME. If you were just gaming it wasn't too bad, but the productivity applications all suffered for it. Still to this day it sticks out in my mind as one of the worst releases of Windows Microsoft made, up there along side Windows Vista.
That was my experience using Windows ME in a strictly work environment (a small business where I was the defacto IT guy). Machines that crashed regularly under ME worked much, much better when we upgraded to XP.
Never had any issues with Win ME back in the day. I was not playing DOS games anymore and didn't miss any lack of DOS boot capability. 2 years ago when I found your channel and started to revive my RetroPC stuff (had a couple of motherboards like ABIT SE6, Epox 8KA7, some Pentium 3 and Athlon XP CPUs, as well a Voodoo 3, Voodoo 5 and a Vortex 2 card there were stored in the last 20 years), I struggled a lit bit of how to setup things again. Had most files stored in CDs, but forgot completely the tips and tricks to make things work together. I also got some extra hardware during these 2 years (some Athlon64 and Slot 1 boards and CPUs, some ISA sound cards, etc) in order to have more choices and experimenting. I won't recall now which combination didn't work, one of my trial runs was not working on Windows 98Se (computer would crash after installing drivers), I tried Win ME and it worked out of the box, with same drivers.
So yes Phil, you're right, do not discard choices like Win ME just because of reputation: you might be locking yourself out of a good choice that might work.
On the Pentium 4 with Intel chipset... I grabbed some ECS motherboards (like P4VMM2) with VIA chipset for 2 reasons: it has universal AGP and it works with my Voodoos, whereas the Intel is AGP 1.5V only. The other thing is that VIA chipset works well with PCI sound cards like Yamaha YMF 7x4 and ESS1938 for native DOS sound. I'm bought one Intel P4 board from Aopen but unfortunately it was defective and I returned it to the seller - I could not verify its friendness with those PCI sound cards.
Also thanks for the game suggestion, I will try Tachyon (only USD 1 today at GoG for me). It looks like a nice game.
And don't forget to try Freespace 1&2 (avaiable on GoG also), nice missions, good history, massive capital ships.... you should check them out.... in my memory the best space combat game I played back on those days, before WinXp era. Cheers!
Great comment! It really is a fun hobby. I often watch my own guides as details escape me 🤣
I actually liked Windows ME much more than Windows 98SE. I had very little issues with it as compared to Windows 98SE. Windows ME was great for gaming. Then I got a coupon for a free upgrade to Windows XP Home from MicroCenter and it was just wow. I have good Memories of Windows ME. I did a clean install of it instead of an upgrade. That may have been the reason it was so stable for me. Great Video.
1995-2000 era of gaming interests me the most so Win98SE gives the perfect range of compatibility, X Wing, Wing Commander, Doom to Quake 3 and Unreal Tournament.. all under one OS.
This is great Phil. I'd love to see what you meant about restoring DOS mode. I stuck with 98 back in the day well into the XP era, because of the ME horror stories.
i really appreciate this vids, love the retro gaming scene and equivilant era tech
The first Windows PC my family had ran Windows ME. It was one of those Compaq Presario 5000 models with the purple plastic disc holder on the front of the case. It had a 1 GHz Pentium III but unfortunately had no AGP slot. It would have made a great Windows 98/ME gaming machine with a GPU upgrade if it did. It did play Command & Conquer/Red Alert/Red Alert 2, though, and that's all I cared about in the year 2001!
Ahhh machines without AGP slot are so annoying! It really limits your options. S3 Virge, Matrox Mystique and of course Voodoo 3 come to mind for suitable card.
Excellent! In Russia Windows ME in joke was named Windows Linoleum and it was not so popular as Windows 98SE, but a bootspeed and Win2K liked interface were very impressive. Sorry my English, please.
I had no problems with ME back in the day. I did turn off the restore feature which noticeably slowed the computer down. I also removed the massive amount of bloatware and trial software that many computers had in that time period. It also helped that my ME was OEM to the computer which means I didn't have driver issues that the people installing ME may of had.
I used that OS even on laptops like Sony Vaio PCG-F707 without problems, even with many videocards, for me was always stable.
Windows Me was my favourite operating system back in the early 2000's, basically until XP was released. I had no idea why there was so much negativity around it back then, i loved it. I think it's starting to garner a more warm reception. Maybe some nostalgia involved there. Thanks for the review, i might build a Me retro pc myself and relive the 2000s again haha.
@@vardekpetrovic9716 - Actually that rings a bell, i think i switched from Me to XP after SP1 was released
Great video Phil, the Win ME audio and visuals have always drawn me in and really have had very few problems when comes to hardware and or software compatibility/stability issues except with handful of exceptions.
I went from win95 to ME back in the day. Shortly after I also got a w2k machine for running business applications... that was a very stable machine which I absolutely loved. Over time I found myself running more and more of my games on that w2k machine, and the ME PC fell by the wayside. Not because I was unhappy with ME, but because the w2k PC ran all my new games and work applications flawlessly. ME just became redundant over time.
I found w2k to be so good in fact, I held onto it as long as I could. Ended up skipping xp and went straight to win7 when forced to upgrade... :)
One theory I heard about Windows Me instability was mixing VXD and WDM drivers together. For the most stable possible theoretical Windows Me setup you need all WDM drivers. That being said I've never wanted to try Windows Me ever again because I still have flashbacks of it having BSOD's all the time before it eventually bricked itself by corrupting the file system beyond repair.
WDM drivers were introduced in Win98. I used WDM driver for AWE64 from W2k installation, because it played 48kHz samples on 44,1 kHz soundcard with much better quality. And I have never problem with crashes, sometimes just mixer menu was a little broken.
It absolutely was. Instability was similar to 9x running VXD drivers, possibly a little worse when mixing the two driver models but couldn't confirm if that was the specific issue. If you gave it WDM drivers it was just fine.
The Mistake Edition is back!
I remember my experience with ME was on a Pentium 4 1.3 or 1.4ghz Willamette (can't remember which model exactly) with a measly 256MB of ram and a Riva TNT. XP ran like hot garbage but ME was so smooth it was actually insane. Though part of that was also my antivirus, for whatever reason it seemed to use significantly less CPU on ME.
It actually was probably more due to how ME interacted with early ACPI and APM. 98SE used a eariler version of the driver for it while ME and XP used a later version that was buggy and crashed on a lot of systems. SP2 fixed that for XP but ME never got any updates so this is why many people had bad experiances with it.
I grew up with Windows 3.1 and 95 but the first computer for my room and that I tore apart was a Dell Dimension 4100 P3 933 MHz with Windows Me. I still have it and i recently put an SSD in it and reloaded Me. It runs great! Let me tell you having native USB Support is such a massive time saver!
I always kept quiet about ME, because the retro community loves to bash on it. But everytime I used it I had zero issues and ran much, much better than 98SE. Sometimes I like to think that Win98 is overrated.
I was a tech at a computer store when ME came out. Those were the days when most computers people bought were build in small computer stores like where I worked. Even after ME came out almost every customer still wanted Windows 98 because they were told horror stories.
The only issue I recall running into was with some older hardware not having drivers that worked well with ME.
I myself was a Windows 98 holdout. Not because I didn't like ME, but because I still played DOS games and absolutely loved Windows 98 SE.
Thanks for the entertaining video!
Reminds me of Vista and customers asking for XP...
This makes me want to move my Socket A rig back to ME. I love 98, but I've had to become best friends with Scanreg just to keep running whenever it decides to throw a fit.
Thanks for reinvigorating the ME interest Phil - I have a Pentium 4 project sitting in storage that would benefit from a Windows ME build. 💿
Funny enough I'm working on the same kind of thing but I'm upgrading a Presario 7000 with an Intel 865PE-based motherboard with a 3.2GHz P4HT. Granted, ME only uses 1 thread... but I also plan to use 2000 on it.
Never had problems with Win ME ;) Great vid, Phil! Loved it! Great memories!
Thanks 😊
I think is an excellent decision to resume from saves, when you can, for the games you show. It gives the sensation of continuation, and for you may result more engaging and entertaining while you are producing your great videos!
Thank you 😊
Nice to see you showcasing SS2! That's got to be my favorite retro game and I've played through it many times.
always preferred ME to 98. seemed to work better on every system I install on, plus some quality of life features that we take for granted.
tbh the only disadvantage of WinMe that was very noticeable for me was lack of pure DOS mode without patching the system files or using the bootdisk everytime you want to use pure DOS mode
My ;ME machine was one of my favorites so I have a strong bias. Well done. This would have been a killer ME build back in the day.
Thank you Phil. I was waiting for you to try to use WinME again. With the MS-DOS mod, you'll have the best of Windows stability (sans internet browsing, just reboot) and all the safety features that are standard equipment now. THANK YOU!!! I kept trying to tell people WinME got a bad rap around the Capacitor Plague era. If it wasn't for that, it would likely have lasted a bit longer even though WinNT was the future..
I absolutely loved WinMe, and still nowadays I keep it in a Virtual Machine. I liked the stability, the look and the fact that finally I didn't have to format my PC once a month (being lucky) with Win98. I ever kept in a dual boot system with WinXP for an year, using both, without ANY issue. The peak of Win9x family for me.
Everybody seems to complain about Win Me.... i used it back in the day on my Asus P2B with a P2 233. Completely stable for me. I really loved Win Me until XP came around (yes i ran win XP on a pentium 2 233)
My MX440 128bit has become my go-to W98 card because "it just works" and is very compatible in DOS. I actually threw it out in the trash when I first got it as part of a local PC pick up but then decided to keep it and it still works fine about 5 years later despite literally zero love and care lol
Nice!
Windows ME caused me kidney failure, my spleen to rupture, liver damage and caused an extreme rise in my blood pressure. It was not very good for me. But I'm all better now!
😂
Shocked at all the people who like ME. It was the least stable OS I've ever used (and I remember how unstable the original 95 was). Everyone I know that had it either downgraded to 98SE or to 2000 for stability and much better compatibility with software/games.
My recollection is that the issue was never ME on initial startup or installation. It is fine on a clean installation.
It was the cumulative experience over time, of using the OS, installing new apps and games, and then trying to uninstall programs/drivers so you can install new ones. ME just didn't age terribly well with the user, prone to serious driver conflicts that led to system-breaking problems. It wasn't stable and produced far too many BSODs. This kind of "Was ME really that bad?" video is never going to show that. Why? In a modern TH-camr project, you're usually looking at a short period of time to build the system, install the OS and software, then evaluate its performance. That could be a week or less, before needing to reach a conclusion, write a video, shoot it, and then move on to making new content.
This leads to quickly breaking down the machine again into parts (or perhaps installing a different OS) before such problems can rear their heads. That isn't enough time for ME to show its warts, at least not if we're talking about ME as it was on its initial release. A long term project where it is used for 6-9 months would be really interesting, especially if starting with the unpatched original edition.
What I recall is that I ended up ditching ME and instead going with 2000/NT, which was comparatively rock solid, until XP came out. The short gap between release dates, of June 2000 (ME) to August 2001 (XP), was so very short for a good reason. In its day, ME was a tire fire. Microsoft had to move quickly to staunch the bleeding. Fortunately, XP was a great OS.
Yes guilty of the above. I rarely get longer term experience with my projects...
Not having any crash on win me is a monumental achievement honestly.
I really enjoyed playing the co-op patch for system shock 2. I'll probably do it again with my son when he's older!
Phil, you are awesome, retro gaming is the best gaming right now. I never played System Shock 2 back then but I remember it was praised for it atmosFEAR. I think System Shock 2 was the inspiration for creating Half-Life. Transferring save files from project to project and showing more of the games is the way to go, thank you!
Awesome 😎
I never had any problem with WinME. At that time I was a computer science student. And I pushed my computer at the limit with Delphi, VB6, SQL Server, IIS...
Wow, I had forgotten about Tachyon, this used to be one of my favorite games, thanks for the reminder and thank you for your videos, they are great fun and have encouraged me to build myself and my daughter Retro PCs (Win XP - Athlon 64 x2 based).
I really liked Windows ME at time. Kinda of a relief using ME after 98 because 98 was prone to crash in the hardware I was using at time. ME just works. It was just fine as end-user.
People complaining at time that I remember were people from some offices, but well, this version wasn't meant for them anyway.
Great video, I use ME on my Dell Inspiron 8100 as it has more stable USB support than 98SE plus the sound card doesn't support true DOS mode anyways. It also does give better performance on late Pentium 3 / early Pentium 4 systems when compared to 2000/XP! Only thing I will say is to disable system restore as it never worked properly under ME and just wastes disk space.
Brings back memories of me watching my older brother play AVP 2.
My first machine came with Windows 98, but one day in 2001 the hard drive failed. (Presumably.) Dad took it to the local independent computer shop, and it came back with ME.
A couple of the shareware games I liked to play didn't work properly, but everything else did once reinstalled. I suspect it worked fine because it was a clean install and the shop knew which drivers would avoid issues. As a young'un I didn't know how to use DOS mode anyway.
"Lucky" for me, I got to experience the horror stories about driver incompatibility with Vista 5 or 6 years later. It was a machine which came preinstalled with it, but it somehow still had issues, and plugging in a printer designed for XP made the whole system crash. I installed XP on that laptop within a couple months.
I vividly remember the driver issues during the first 6 months after Vista. Scanner not working. TV tuner not working. Printer not working. Mobile broadband modem not working...
@@philscomputerlab this unlocked memories of that disappointment, 6-9 months after release, when people realised their particular peripheral wasn’t included in the swath of driver updates and probably wasn’t ever going to be.
@@kaitlyn__L It was THE opportunity to drop support and force you buy a new scanner. Dispute you owning the high end precious model, perfectly functioning... I worked at a computer store back in the day and we offered a service to business customers. If the machine has Vista Business you could downgrade to XP. The service centre made a killing with that and even us sales guys learnt about this and promoted it. I think we were one of the few stores offering this service, customers were begging for laptops with XP. Later companies like Toshiba even shipped us XP Images to help sell more of their Toshiba Tecra business machines...
@@philscomputerlab So many conversations about what they were going to do with their old scanner/printer… Funnily enough a bunch of people I knew at the time took that opportunity to switch to Mac.
I don’t think it was explicitly a conspiracy, but I do think the manufacturers all realised Vista was a huge opportunity to just Conveniently choose not to update their equipment and force an extra sale sooner than their usual obsolescence cycle would.
Some of those press releases about “unfortunately, we can’t offer updates at this time. However we will offer a $20 rebate on purchase of a new printer or scanner” were just… sickeningly self-serving and full of corporate, fake, upbeat turns of phrase.
Honestly, I’m amazed that my 2009? 10? Canon printer still has ink cartridges available and doesn’t use a DRM chip (or it was reverse engineered right away). Some people seem to need an entirely new printer every 2-3 years nowadays due to very slight changes to the cartridges. I can certainly understand why Big Clive modified a late-90s printer to take bulk ink fed directly to the heads.
There are some interesting things that Windows ME does with DOS memory management which aren't well advertised. I've seen some other youtubers "restore" DOS mode and becausue of the changes to memory management you don't quite need to fuss as much with freeing up Conventional memory. At least that's what it looked like. That youtuber didn't play any games though. You might consider looking into that.
Nice revisit. I had less issues from ME. I remember many nights reinstalling 95 and being disappointed when 98 restores didn’t work. So yeah, I was good with ME. Don’t really recall having issues with old games… maybe Ultima 7… fuzzy memories ya know.
I had the same years ago. At time I used this OS I don't played much DOS games so that lack of exit to DOS wasn't problem for me. For me Windows ME worked always as good as 98SE. By the way at 98SE when folder was copied to HDD from CD that folder files were set as read-only, at Windows ME they had normal attributes. Even when was created shortcut by clicking "Send to" desktop at 98SE by clicking right at file "start in" wasn't populated in propeteries which is solved at ME.
I bought Sytrm Shock 2 back in the day. THE creepiest soundtrack I have ever heard. Movies included. A lesson in sound design. That back ground hum still makes my nerves go on edge. Thanks.
I am curious as to what sort of costs you incurred in building this.
I got the parts over the last ten years couldn't tell you how much I've spent. A lot is all I have...
@@philscomputerlab Thanks.
On a solid system ME works well. Low overhead on circa 2000 gaming.
My hardware is on either side of this era, i have a solid 98 system and a solid XP system.
Nice to see the os getting some appreciation. It is what it is. Ahead of its time, and thus hardware of the day steuggled to cope. Vista had the same problem. Niwadays though with cherry picked hardware both can be rock solid stable.
Great video! I kind of miss messing around with Windows ME.
I use ME on any pc above 600mhz and used for mostly windows games. Go for 128mb+ ram to remove OS use from virtual ram/Swap
I use it on my dual ME/XP dual p3 1ghz rig
I live alone. I can't game at night with headphones on. i get too jumpy! lol
Another nice video as usual, What is the brand/model headphone you're show in the video ?
Shure 1440. Great headphones but the built quality is average, the fabric of the headband is falling apart.
@@philscomputerlab wow, so expensive 😮
WinMe has become my go-to test OS for retro hardware (even if the machine will ultimately run something else). I don't always use an SSD in an adapter that I can easily plug into my main PC, so the out of the box USB storage support and more robust network stack compared to 98 are invaluable features. It's also proven to be remarkably forgiving when using the same install on another computer; for the most part its just boots, finds some built-in drivers, and works.
I used ME for a while back in the day, right up until Microsoft's Rise of Legends game came out and required Windows XP. Spent the first few hours of a LAN party upgrading everyone's PC so we could all play that game lol.
I never used ME, but i remember it being the butt of all jokes at the time. I went from 3.11, to 95, to 98, to XP. I used Vista briefly but didn't like it much. 7 was what Vista should've been it seems. skipped 8 but went to 8.1 or whatever the updated one was with the start menu. and finally Win10. Not a fan of 11 at all (have it at work). It's interesting how it seems every other windows release is a bust. 2000 was solid, we had it in college on everything and while i worked at the computer lab i developed and appreciated for its stability.
I'd be very interested in a DOS-mode-restored testing of Windows ME.
I had ME back in the day, for a fairly long time actually because I was a bit late jumping to XP. It certainly wasn't any more unstable than 98 that's for sure.
On a semi-related tangent, have you ever tried installing an Audigy 2 ZS in DOS with the Audigy 1 driver? It would make a compelling option for a fast, late 9x focused but DOS-compatible build such as this one, provided it works as some claim.
I haven't but there are guides out there. Joseph in particular has done a guide for this.
OK Phil are you a mind reader? While digging around in the basement I found a New copy of Win Me still in the box. I have had this for many years BTW. I also have the Same exact sound card and Vid card too. CPU is no problem and neither is the Mem. What is the largest SSD I can use with ME I'll figure out. I do have some old games to try again. Only issue is the motherboard that I don't have. So I'll have to dig around some more and see if I have one somewhere. On the other hand I do have a an IBM with a P4 3.0ghz and a Radeon X850XTX card that works just fine. Might be worth a try. I'll check that website that you mentioned for drivers and get the others from Lenovo. Many Thanks for keeping this stuff alive and well!
Well with 98 I like using 30GB. The limit is 120 but even that size there are hoops...
With me I have seen Windows ME as a mixed bag because it all depends on the hardware that you had installed inside of your PC. My dad had a Sony VIAO mini laptop that had Windows Me on it and it ran like absolute garbage that sucker blue screened every chance it had but once he upgraded to Windows 2000 that machine became so much better. My two friends had PIII 500mhz machines both running Windows Me and both machines ran it just fine. With me I tried Windows Me for about 30 seconds because of the lack of DOS support so I went back to Windows 98 SE.
@PhilsComputerLab
Phil, you were very objective here and while I personally disagree with your ultimate conclusion, you were very fair in your observations and showing just how good WinME actually was. Well done, well done indeed!
I was wondering what you use for a hardware test bench Phil. I'm guessing that you've mentioned it in one or more of your many other videos. Is it something that you constructed yourself or something you purchased? Which hardware test bench would you recommend?
You can buy it. High Speed PC. Unfortunately overseas shipping was very expensive, otherwise I would buy a few more.
I will never understand the fuzz about Windows Me. I used it for quite a while, and for a lot of different tasks (not just gaming) without any memorable issues with it. Anyway, great video as usual, thank you!
Danke, Phil! Once I get myself a desk and such for my apartment bedroom, I wanna make a video on my Shuttle XPC SB62G v2 thanks to you.
Go for it!
I used ME several months ago for testing a VIA Tualatin Board, and ME run flawlessly. But yes, it was no long time test and no daily use PC. Back in the day, it was horrible. I had to reinstall ME every second month or so. Random BSODs. I also think it had something to do with drivers and which specific Hardware were in use. I was 13 and had no idea about wdm and vdx drivers. I installed the bundled drivers cause we dont had Internet. Only graphics drivers were updates with every new PC Action issue (Germany) :-D Great times, best magazine. But yes, installed Win98, problem solved. Maybe the drivers we pick today are more matured.
Back then I had a pre-build with Windows Me, it was a Pentium 3 with 750MHz, 768MB RAM, graphics card I can't remember. It worked for me without any problems and, to be honest, I found Windows Me totally okay
if you gaze long enough into -the- -abyss- Windows ME, -the- -abyss- Windows ME will gaze back into you.
Zalman made a true 5.1 surround sound headphone during this era - I still have one, and other than my own damaged hearing, they’re still great!
They’re strange looking, most definitely, but they’re somewhat collapsible and has an insanely long cord with three jacks for your sound card. Hope you can find a set, they’re quite nice especially given their age.
i used ME for years and was very happy with it. You can play most dos games in windows just by clicking on them. If you really want pure DOS mode you can get it, but you don't need it the vast majority of the time.
Just like in 98 you can edit MSDOS.SYS to prevent the GUI from running at startup. Setup a boot menu to either load the DOS mode drivers, or to boot windows on the command line. It's easier to do then you think.
I am curious to try Windows ME, after seeing this video and LGR's review/retrospective of it. I only remember one person using Windows ME back in the day, but I wasn't aware of it's terrible reputation at the time XD.
That Jeremy Soule soundtrack
I remember the bad reviews when windows me came out so skipped it.. I may have to try it out now. Thanks for the game reviews..
yeah you can restore the DOS „real“ mode. I personally even removed all windows ME commonents so just DOS 8 was left.
a TL;DR of dos8.
in 99% of cases it’s just like dos7. two things really stand out for me:
the microsoft provided memory management is completely broken so you need a third party one (which are in my opinion better than the MS one anyway).
format /s doesn’t work.
otherwise it’s so far just like dos7
I remember some people giving ME a try back when it was released to. It got a lot of bad press at the time but honestly, my impression of it was always that it was just a worthy update to Windows 98SE.
It wasn't particularly necessary since at the time of its release there was less and less reason to run 98SE: games had largely all become compatible with NT/2K and drivers for NT/2K were available for basically all new enthusiast tier hardware. This wasn't always the case but at the time ME came out it largely was so Windows 2000 was the windows of choice and ME fell a little flat amongst enthusiasts.
That said it was just fine so long as you had drivers. It basically required WDM drivers and a lot of people were attempting to run old VXD drivers with it which led to instability. If you gave it appropriate, contemporary hardware with the right drivers it was fine... just didn't really serve much purpose except niche cases when you absolutely needed 9X/DOS compatibility although from memory you had to enable this manually.
Imo games back in the days didn’t have the same visual immersion as today so developers put so much more emphasis on sound. I wish that modern games put more time on sound quality for immersion.
My first new computer the purple compaq came with windows me so I'm fond of me. I have a cool oem sony computer that I upgraded from 700mhz piii to 1.4 ghz piii. I found a sony oem recovery on archive that actually installed and is windows me, came with original bloat and even store demos!
Windows Me was my daily driver in the early 2000s, and I fortunately didn't have a lot of stability issues compared to Windows 98 SE. The only real drawback was the removal of the Restart in MS-DOS mode option. I was a bit confused by the OS-tan Windows Me memes, but I guess a lot of people had trouble with it back in the day.
Which games are easier to run on Windows ME instead of XP? Is there an advantage to using an 9x/ME OS over XP, other than games which require DOS under to hood, such as NFS 1?
The reason the WDM drivers support CD audio in a virtual machine is because the operating system directly reads the audio tracks and plays them in software.
You should test Windows 2000 for gaming as well.
Don't the WDM Audio drivers break DOS compatibility?
DOS has its own drivers, at least real DOS..if you mean running DOS prompt, then I think you're right. But for DOS 98 is the way to go IMO.
The Audigy2ZS is such a great piece of hardware, I still use mine to this day (bought a PCI to PCI-E bridge just for that), with the unofficial "kX" drivers, it offers possibilities in terms of audio routing and processing in real time that only very high end modern solutions could realistically rival with. It's an amazing card, though it's 96KHz/24bits capabilities are kinda limited.
Indeed! I have mine too and a SoundBlaster Z. I understand for some people is enough on board audio, but for me it isn't. Not only I use some pro audio editing tools but the quality of the sound is totally different. I gave on board audio a chance several times and always was crappy and with "electrical noise" or issues like that. Not with my SBs! I hope soundcards keep being a thing in the future, even for specific uses...
98SE2ME can apply some of the eye candy from WinME such as bringing the Explorer shell to 98SE. The internet games option is bugged, but the servers no longer work anyways. Some of the system files introduce bugs that don't exist in the 98SE equivalents, but also resolves bugs from older 98SE system files at the same time.
Apparently WinME includes the Win2K TCP/IP stack that is left out in 98SE2ME. MDGx has update packs for WinME but they were not as well supported as the U98SESP.
I stick with 98SE on any retro PCs as it's quick and easy to install and update while having the flexibility to go into DOS.
Interesting, I haven't tried networking with ME yet...
tHAT Audigy was like my fav sound card for near a decade :)
I loved Windows ME. My favourite version of all time.
I used Windows ME many times even on laptops and I don't had any problems with that OS. I only had little problem when it installed WDM driver for soundcard at ThinkPad T20 instead VXD one that was more suitable for DOS games there, but I was able to install VXD driver for soundcard without problem.
You look way different to the way I imagined you for so long… not disappointed!