it will make you more consistand and that will make you faster. i do have to add that a stronger wheelbase isnt as big a help as better pedals will be tho. from all your kitt the pedals are the biggest advantage, a stronger/ better wheelbase might have you end up fighting the wheel more then not. some of the absolute alien drivers are doing it with a t150 or even lower... i have 2 dd wheelbases (the accuforce v2 @16nm and the csl dd @8nm) and since im a racing purist i do have my fair amount of fights with the wheel that i dont always win, but im not the guy that wants or needs to be the fastest, i find clean driving way more important...
so let me also tell you that the amount of nm isnt so much about the power as it is to the amount of ffb details you get. yes it's more powerfull, but more importantly it gives you a wider range of ffb details. on the fanatec 8 nm dd wheels you got 8 things you can adjust (or atleast i think it was 8) on my accuforce 16nm i have around 20 different things i can adjust as far as ffb detail goes. it shows when driving with them while using the same amount of power too, for that test i turned down the accuforce to about 6nm and did the same with the csl dd. while still getting the same level of detailed ffb (only weaker) you clearly feel the difference between the two.
i also forgot to mention that i use the heusinkveld sprints, witch is a comperable step up from the fanatec loadcell V3 pedals and 2 steps up from the csl lc pedals.
For me I believe that no one should just start off with a high end setup unless they can show that they can be consistent with a mid to entry level gear. No matter how good your setup is, if you can't drive, then you can't drive. And if you're gonna spend all that money on a wheel, you might as well play on pc with a triple monitor or vr setup since you can get so much more out of your equipment regardless if it's high end or entry level.
In my experience coming from a G29 to a GT DD Pro, yes, better gear made me faster. But more than anything my enjoyment went through the roof and ultimately that’s the most important improvement. Smiles per mile and all that ;)
was it better gear, or natural skill progression? i feel someone who bought a topend wheel and then 2 weeks/months/years later swapped to a g29 would be faster on the g29 for the reason of natural improvement.
There is also psychological aspect of knowing you invested a lot of money in a dd wheel. When you drive g29 on full ffb. It like driving with flat tires. The dd wheels are known to cause thumb injuries up to torn ligaments.after a crash where the ffb cause the wheel to twist so violently tubs get broken and or ligaments torn of. I don't care for that level of realistically where I need to recover for several months.main reason why they don't sell them in regular stores it not a children's toy any more when you go direct drive.
I love my g29, reasonable price and works well. I’ve been considering upgrading to a fanatec but it’s hard to justify the pricetag, if I’m going to be spending thousands of dollars I’d rather put that money into my real car
Did you consider CSL dd? You can get everything at around 1k, also Monza and simcube have good budget offerings now. Don't get me wrong, it's still expensive, but way more affordable than 1 year ago even
I just upgraded from a g27 to a t300 and the difference is crazy to be honest…all I’m gonna need for a while until everything else in terms of setup is perfect
You are so right, I am going to full repaint plus aluminum rims my old second car and it will be like new. Cost under 2000 Euros (Greece). There are much better things to do with 2000, unless you re rich and money is not an issue, which is fine, but not wise for the majority of people. It all comes down to how much one is willing to spend.
Why don't you try driving these setups also : cheap wheel with expensive pedals and expensive wheel with cheap pedals and see the difference. The results will definitely be interesting.
I run old thrustmaster t150 for iracing I just got into iracing last year. Someone told me not to worry bout the wheel but to buy different pedals instead.
That's a good idea, upgrading my wheel made everything feel cooler but didn't make me faster. Upgrading my pedals though, I got a tiny bit faster almost immediately.
The biggest difference I feel with more expensive wheels is being able to feel the limit more. I can feel the wheel getting just a little lighter if any rubber is about to lose traction, where as on my old G27 and CSR, I could never feel that limit. So for me this made me faster and more consistent. If I crash now, 99% of the time, I know exactly what I did. With my older wheels, sometimes I was guessing. Also been sim racing since the mid 2000's with Iracing, ACC, and the GT series to a much lesser extent.
Practice of course always makes you better, and the fastest sim racer could blow us away with a g29. But with that said… the more expensive set up will also make you a better, and faster, more consistent, due to the fact that you can actually feel what is going on with your car, down to the smallest detail
@@yuyy8565 it’s not worth it only if you’re not looking to get a more realistic feel of the car. Otherwise you can’t make a G29 imitate a DD wheel.
Man I LOVE your Energy! The way you package your content and combine it with your personality is fantastic, keep it up! While im here id also like to add my take on this whole debate, adding a point many people overlook: In more hardcore sim racing games such as iRacing or ACC, tyre management becomes increasingly more difficult and important. A DD wheel allows you to get a much better feeling for the tyres' behaviour and in my experience has made me a lot smoother, meaning that it might not always impact outright laptime, but is definitely benificial for longer race stints with degredation, bringing your overall racetime down while reducing errors
FAM JUST REALIZED HE DOESNT? judging by quality you really put a lot of work and dedication in your vids. Wow. I'm surprised you don't get the recognition you deserve for that astonishing content, video- and audio quality. Maybe it's simracing kinda being nieche...
It’s not about expensive setups it’s all about track knowledge and getting around the track fast. Breaking points and apexs knowledge is extremely more important than expensive wheels and setups.
Answer: Expensive gear makes driving a lot easier so starting on better gear allows to make skill progress a lot quicker, especially with good, load cell pedals.
You know what mate. I'm not even here for the steering wheels, I stumbled on the channel as I was entertaining getting a g29 but I'm really just glued to you and your presenting style. You are a natural presenter. Upbeat, Clear voice with character so no deadpan delivery but not too much character to make you difficult to understand and the injection of comedy into your delivery was great too. Awesome vid! ... and yep g29 will do me for now :)
I went from a logitech g920 to a fanatec csl dd and it's a MASSIVE difference. It didn't necessarily make me faster, but the enjoyment I got out of it was so much better. the csl dd just feels so much better and is must more immersive. I only have the 5nm power supply right now, but I'm planning on upgrading to the 8nm power supply for the extra immersion. the g920 is $300 brand new and I got the csl dd ready2race bundle for $400. To me, it's well worth the extra $100.
Honestly I was slower with my CSL DD than my 300rs for a while before getting used to the different feel and pedals. Edit: For anyone considering the sim racing hobby on a budget, get an entry level Logitech or Thrustmaster and don't look back. Even the lower priced stuff is a joy to use IMO.
The Pedals are key, especially the brake pedal. I had the same problem going from a G27 to a T500...until I modded the brake I was up to 10 seconds slower with the T500/T3PA Pedals that came with it. After Modding I'm at least 2.5 seconds faster than the G27 on Bathurst (from a 2:09.964 to a 2:07.222) . On a default setup, not a bespoke one for the mountain. And a lot more comfortable at getting close to the walls on the Mountain, as you feel way more detail in the FFB. You can tip-toe a lot closer to the limit with better FFB, but consistent and precise braking gives you a lot more time. Add to that the SHH Shifter vs. the G27 shifter and it's worlds apart, I rarely misshift with the SHH, as the shifting is both smoother and sharper, as well as quicker and more precise. The stick itself is longer, but the throw is shorter, giving it a nice sporty feel and quick shifts. It's lower throw to stick length ratio is a definate improvement over the akward very long throw for the short shifter stick in the G27/Logitech G shifter. 5th and 6th gear are a bit weak, but even in those mishifts are maybe once or twice in two weeks. (If the shifter is properly aligned!) Compare that to the 1-2 mishifts every other session with the G27. With the SHH full manual shifting is fun and the shifter is about 120 Euros with the optional sequential plate, and postage to germany from Spain. (Without Postage it's about 108-109 Euros.) Also push down, twist 90 degrees left, flip one switch, that's the whole process of switching to sequential mode. Takes about 10-20 seconds. 40 if you switch out to the optional sequential plate for better guidance. Oh and it's a 7+R Shifter, with one extra gear over the Logitech one. So heavier gear does not make you faster, for me the biggest thing that has made me faster is more experience, but good equipment makes it easier to be consistent. And consistency wins races. Edit: P.S. Going used also makes good stuff way more affordable, as I got my T500RS used for about 220€ Including postage, the old F150 F1 Wheel for 118€ (including postage, and since it's 9 months old with left over warranty) and the F599XX Evo 30cm wheel for 128 euros (five weeks old, so warranty left over and in perfect shape). The brake mod for 36-37 € and the SHH shifter are the only thing new. If you want gloves, just get the Mechanix Speciality 0.9 (0.9mm faux leather grip surfaces) for about 25-30 Euros, they're good enough, cheap and you can use them for stuff like fixing shutters or other things at home.
I beg to differ. I wasted money on a Logitech wheel and the T300 RS GT I later moved on to was so much better, it was beyond explanation or price comparison. Even just gear to belt is a world of difference, perhaps just as great a difference to DD (haven't ever used one). I would personally recommend everyone should always skip any sort of gear-driven wheel and only consider a Thrustmaster as the entry point, because honestly, you're just throwing money away with "entry level" hardware.
@@Curratum I agree, did the same but didn't waste money on logi cause I got a g27. Now I got a t300rs gt and logitrash is just absolute pure dumpsterfire garbage that's only worth it to buy used. I mean I didn't even sim race that often cause I hated the wheel and setting it up, now I play on my thrustmaster daily whereas with logi I did monthly as one is a lot more enjoyable and most importantly: quiet and smooth. No more waking up entire house with late night dirt rally session. The easily pneumo modded brake pedal on logi was great tho. But you can achive similiar results with a squash ball on thrustmasters pedal. I reccomend all aspiring simracers to spend 120 bucks tops on logitech if they really can't save up for thrustmaster since the race is tomorrow.
DD’s don’t make you faster. They give you cleaner and more FFB than lower units. It communicates more allowing you to have more consistent fast times. Than make you faster. That being said, premium DD wheels are nice. But I agree TS300 or entry level wheels are perfectly fine.
In my experience, you are more consistant with a better wheel but not neccasarily faster. Consistancy is what you are looking for when racing as that will generally win you races. I started on a 2nd hand DrivingForce GT wheel, then onto a G29 for a few years and now on a CSL DD wheel. I enjoy hotlapping from time to time, and have set lap records on PC2 with all my wheels. Mostly on the DFGT wheel but that is due to the time I put into hotlapping with that wheel. If you enjoy sim racing and put in the hours, then a DD wheel is a good investment as you do get more feedback and enjoyment from it.
I had the g29, the new g29 the t300 and now i have a dd pro the g29, new 29 and t300 to me all felt the same so if you're looking to get in the sim racing world, go with the cheapest one you can find imo If you're really into it and want to spend more the dd pro is a no brainer, i got the 5nm version, bought the 8nm kit afterwards and honestly I don't use it with all at max force because it's too much for me The biggest difference besides the feeling on pedals to me is that you can feel what's happening with the tires on the dd pro, something that i couldn't really tell on the cheaper wheels, that reason itself makes you a faster racer If you can afford a Fanatec and you like sim racing just do it, its awesome
Before upgrading from Logitech, I noticed an improvement in laptimes with positioning my monitor better with more accurate FOV. This with the wheel and pedals upgrade was a game changer .... for me 👍🏾🙏🏾
Go VR. - No messing at all with FOV - Immersion goes through the roof - much better sense of speed and distances Especially in Dirt Rally 2.0, VR made me a lot better.
Just got into sim racing, picked up a 2nd hand (used once by a kid who wanted a flight sim instead) g923 setup with shifter, it works perfectly and I personally think its amazing and for £210 not a bad price
Been watching you for a while now, your enthusiasm is great, and ur also good at racing, your naturally talented at making people laugh and making them smile, also got talent behind the wheel, keep it up, your smashing it 💙👊🏻
Load cell brakes make the biggest difference. Brakes plus a solid base to put them on are the first things you should spend your money on. Good video making this point. Consistent and repeatable braking is the key to faster times.
A decent brake pedal does make a difference (it did for me). Otherwise the wheel made no difference, other than my old G29 grinding its gears becoming slightly annoying. I don't get that now with the DD of course.
I can tell you from experience that, if you are transitioning to a wheel for the very first time, what wheel you use really won't matter at first. If youve only ever used a controller, There is going to be a huge learning curve and your times are going to stink until you "learn the language" of whatever wheel you move forward with. I'm sure once you've sim raced for a while a better wheel with more precise inputs/outputs makes a huge difference. But at an entry level all wheels will feel like crap for a while
For the beginner I would say better gear won't make any difference. Maybe you get a bit more consistent earlier. But you'll have to learn the basics of racecraft and build skills like proper shifting, the correct line of sight, trailbreaking, etc. first. Later on the better equipment will of course help you to build consistency and to carve of the last tenths of a second. But as always skill will surpass the pure equipment. There are also alien sim drivers using Logitech or Thrustmaster hw.
Definitely yes. I went from a g29 to a fanatec CLS DD and saw 2 seconds faster lap times. The superior precision and better force feedback gave me better car control and confidence.
I'm hoping to go from a thrustmaster t80 (No ffb) to a t300. That will be quite the jump considering I've never touched a wheel that had any sort of ffb
My times are usually a second or so off world record times on my g29 so I can't wait to be 1 second clear of everyone when I finally upgrade 🤣. Seriously though, if you've found 2 seconds out of nowhere just by upgrading your wheel then you must have been slow af to start with.
Absolutely amazing video comparison and mindblowing editing it was like watching a documentary so engaging and seemless! Keep up the amazing videos coming!
Since buying my CSL DD at launch, I still haven't beaten my pb in Assetto Corsa around the Nordschleife in the 2017 911 RSR (6:39 full lap, not tourist), that was done on a T300 after smoking a few packed bowls... But I still believe it has made me more consistent, especially with loadcell brakes coming from T3PA Pro's
When I was a teenager I spent $1000 on fishing gear, still couldn’t catch a thing. If your a beginner.. just buy the basic stuff. But by all means make mid level your entry level.
In my experience, more expensive gear made me faster. Coming from a G29 some laptimes were nearly impossible to beat and after buying a Moza R9, those laptimes often got shattered on the 1-3rd lap. It's so much easier to stay on the limit without going over it. Granted, I was running against the capabilities of the G29 and only then would it make sense to upgrade.
I agree with you! I have found the same thing, although I definitely would like to try a g29 with a brake mod as I think that makes a large difference!
@@TheCarDoc1 So many prople will argue that gear doesn't matter but at the top level, margins are so small that I can guarantee you, you will burn yourself out trying to keep up with a G29 whereas those with Simucubes or Fanatec DD's can always be at the top level while putting in half the effort. I can say this with confidence because I just moved up to an SC2 PRO and I've been winning ever since
@@mcwclapz1994 Depends on what you want and what your budget is. If you want to compete at the highest level on ACC, rF2 or iRacing then you will have a much easier time with expensive gear. If you just enjoy sim racing as a hobby then a T300 / G29 is all you need. I personally just upgraded from a T300 and T-LCM to SC2 Pro and Heusinkveld sprints and the difference in my driving is night and day. The reason I upgraded is because I'm competing in this years LeMans virtual series. But if I didn't do sim racing seriously then I probably would have never upgraded
I think the biggest difference is from the stronger force feedback you can get smoother turning in corners and if you have a g29 mounted to a desk with a gaming chair and you think you need a better wheel the first thing you need a a rig to mount it to and that will benefit you significantly then think about a upgrading your wheel
I bought the Fanatec DD GT 7 and was going to sell my Logitech g293. After two weeks with the Fanatec I changed my mind and sold the Fanatec instead. I didn't see any reasons for that high price tag and all of the hype about it, I honestly have more fun with the g293 which I kept by the way.
I'm not here to change your mind. But you probably did not experience the fidelity of information that the direct drive can give you. Those information get lost if you are using gear driven wheels like the logitech. Nonetheless you're having fun w/ the logitech so I guess that's enough :)
Maybe in GT 7 it doesn't change a lot, but on the pc with Racesims the difference is night and day. It doesn't make you faster, but it does make you more consistent easier. The most important thing is your brake pedal in simracing. Good that you have the same amount of fun with the Logitech, that's a very good reason to keep it!
I think that everybody needs to understand that usually you'll go for a g29 from a gamepad driving. So that also should be considered. Of course the fanatec is better but is it so much better that the g29 is better confronted with the pad driving? It's hard to think that it is
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Good comparison. Immersion is more fun and its really a discovery. Jumping right into the most expensive gear you miss the relativity of the experiences you gain if you level up shortly and learn. Its nice to scale up.
Why not buy expensive gear and gradually move up the force feedback level?
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@@thrasherdave1428 It's not just a software / algorithmic problem. Some cheaper hardware for example has to compensate for lack of torque and does fancy pancy effects to sell to you the idea if 'haptics'. It's hard to understand/explain the difference of effects based haptics, without trying it first. In any case, ultimately to each's own, but slowing building up has advantages, since you can relate to other hardware you have tried before. ;-) IMHO
I went from a TM T300 set, to Fanatec CSL DD with Heusinkveld Ultimate pedals and then switched to a Simucube Pro wheel base. Same with my flight sim gear. I started with the Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, then switched to Virpil T50CM2 base with Realsimulator F-18 grip and WinWing F-18 throttle. Point is, i could have saved a stockpile of money if i´d skipped the entry level gear and purchased the high end stuff right away. I´d say if you´re confident to realy enjoy your new hobby, get the real good stuff from the beginning. Saves you nerves and money.
I’ve been using my G29 since I first got it christmas 2020 with no sim experience, playing GT sport. My wheel was mounted to a couch side table with an old gaming chair I had In the garage. 5 months later I was already able to qualify within the top 50 of the North American region. I realized I was top split when I made it into a lobby with Igor fraga, Kie’s American account, and Super GT’s American account, finishing top 10 as well. All with a setup made of household items. And I still use it when I play GT7. The other more expensive wheels are great, but you definitely don’t need all that to be fast and see results. Hell there’s even people who use the ps4/5 controller to play, and are top split drivers as well. Your equipment does not determine your speed!
Found your channel today and honestly believe you're going places man, enjoyable content and engaging as heck, best of luck homie and glad to say I found your content 👍👍
Thanks for the video mate. I am considering upgrading to a DD wheel from a Logitech G920 and you have given me a good reason to do so. A very fair video and super useful!
It would be better if you have more experience in this game a good lap time is a 1.42 on watkins glen on softs so in my opinion first you need a certain level to really compare them
8:38 Please DON'T try to grab a DD wheel that's doing that. If your finger gets stuck between the paddle shifter and wheel it's gonna hurt. I found out.
My only question would be, did the rig make the difference too ? Different seating style and position may have made you more comfortable and relaxed to put in a faster time. I'm about to look at a wheel and the G29 was where I was going but might save for a thrustmaster instead. Could never afford a DD
the answer is yes, i just got my first rig 6 months ago. its a massive upgrade, you instantly feel the difference and it will make you faster because your braking can become more consistent. two pieces of advice, buy bass shakers for your rig, you only need two really, front and rear, they make a lot of difference because you can feel your wheels locking in the corners and the engine vibration really adds to immersion in vr. and second cammus is doing a dd wheel set for like 600 usd and its advertised as 15nm but actually its 18nm so really its 15nm with headroom.
Had a g29 for a few years and upgraded to the gt dd and boy it's a world of difference and my lap times and consistency definitely improved with the dd
To be fair, it's more about the gaming experience than the performance. Switching up the direct drive does not necessarily make you quicker, but it surely do improve your experience by a lot. You'd be surprised by how many of those top sim-racers are using DS4 or keyboard and mouse. ;) But drifting with a direct drive definitely helps a lot, but thats a different category.
I sometimes drive with a few people in Automobilista 2. I have a G29 and most of the others drive with Fanatec DD's. They were really suprised when I told them that I drive with a G29 because I was keeping up so well on the Nordschleife. So I guess there is something to it.
That second is fully due to the brake pedal as you correctly mentioned. I got "truebrake" mod for the Logitech, made me a lot quicker. It's really a game changer. Obviously the "I can't fell the front wheels" has a lot to do with the wheel, but the game has a very very poor force feedback imo. Give it a try in ACC and then...sell the G29. :) You will get very close to your 200 bucks back.
I'm thinking of upgrading from G29 to Moza R5 kit. My current wheel was with me for many years and I had a lot of fun with it, but I think it's time to change. I'm still under the age that allows me to legally drive (18 yo in my country), so I want to have fun at home for now, and save for a good car when I'll get myself a job (I think I will have a starter car as a gift from my parents).
Important to note the new logitech direct drive pro wheel comes with improved pedals that will also work with the G29. You can also find awesome aftermarket parts for g29 like pedals and sequential shifters that improve the quality. You can also replace the original wheel with a real racing wheel with after market accessories
For performance, there is a slight jump in terms of consistency between not DD and DD. But other than that, upgrades are not gonna make you faster. Rather, they make the driving experience more comfortable and remove distractions which would give away that you are in a sim rather than a real car
I came from a t-300 rs gt edition to the dd pro. The t-300 was already a nice wheel, but the DD pro is on another level. The sensation of grip or lack of it is so much more tactile. Also, the load cell pedal was a game changer. I find myself lightly tapping the brake a lot more, which allows me to carry more speed in corners.
I think the Logitech wheels get more hate than they deserve. If you get one on special it's a great deal. That being said, it's rattles like there's no tomorrow lololol
The Logitech fills the gap between cheap crap to DD nicely so players can enjoy and develop and see if they really want to invest. It's such a big jump to DD cost wise if you don't have deep pockets you really need to be sure it's the path for you. I have Thrustmaster T500 and I'd love a DD wheel but I'm not convinced it's the right choice for me personally.
I might be a tiny bit faster on the DD pro compared to the G29, but it's definitely not worth the price for that. I paid for the new rig setup because I wanted more stability, rigidness and better FFB. For that immersion it was worth it, but to get better times, not really.
Good video, one thing I will add though is the Logitech has massive potential for low-cost mods that make a BIG difference in it's usability & immersion. Three of the best for value & improved performance: A variable pitch spring to replace the default brake pedal spring + stopper (reduces the stiffness, makes braking smoother / progressive) Magnetic ring mod for the paddle shifter (snaps back the shifters) Replacement spring for the manual gear shifter (increases the pressure required four-fold) All the above three cost less than £40 / $50 total, take minutes to install yet make a significant difference to the experience.
Great video and interesting experiment. During lockdown I took the plunge and bought a Thrustmaster T150 Pro (which comes with the T3PA pedals) and a wheel stand for my Playstation. Once I got to grips with it I absolutely loved it and was a couple of seconds faster than my friends who were still using controllers. Then I soon upgraded to a T300RS base and a SF1000 Ferrari add-on wheel. And the difference is staggering. I know it's still a world away from the top of the range kit but I can feel so much more detail now and am definitely quicker than I was with the T150.
I used to use a G27 forever and then upgraded to the csl dd with the load cell pedals. The biggest difference is the amount of detail that is fed back from the direct drive wheels. You can feel every bump on the road and even the weight of the car. And the load cells are much better for brake feel and consistent braking. It allows for much better modulation of the brake. I think like you said, the pairing of the wheel and the pedal is important. If you get a direct drive wheel and use a low end pedal set, you're not gaining anything from it. Very good vidoe!
I had a logitech DFGT and the pedals stopped working. Bought some ClubSport V3 pedals and my times Improved ALOT. It was more significant an improvement than when I finally went to a CSL DD. The DD made it possible drive at the limit and not pass the limit alot easier. Also I could finally catch a slide lolol
I replaced my g27 with a csw 2.5 and a 200kg loadcell pedals, and I went from the table to a full cockpit with screen. The difference is very noticeable, and there is a lot of difference in terms of feeling and race peace. To be fair it's another game and the main difference is that you feel all the disconnection in the ground. So that's make you faster and also you need less time to learn a track. I improved my lap times and also I'm enjoying simracing more. If you are wondering if is worth to buy new stuff yes, it is. It's definitely another game and another type of immersion. The last thing that changes your racing session is that you can feel when you are on the limit and it's easier to find the limit. This means that in 25 minutes of a race you can push without having the constant fear of twist the car. this probably is the main thing that change if you want to be competitive in a 25 or 40 minutes race. With my g27 was impossible to always push hard without spinning.
When you 'messed up' the corner more to the end of the vid, you were entering very wide, which I think was actually better. I think you dive in a bit too soon sometimes. Remember, use all the road you need :) Very good video, now I know I don't want a small logitech and will be better of with better pedals. Thank you!
I have a G920 and GT Track cockpit. Actually selling both and changing to a Simagic 23nm wheel and NLR Aluminum profile frame. Can't wait for them to arrive!
It's your preference at the end of the day I own 5 different wheels 2 direct drives I played Grand tourism 7 All day everyday And the best wheel for me for this game would be thrustmaster TGT I feel like the wheel was designed for this game the The feel that you feel in the game you don't feel it and no other will And I feel like I'm a lot faster With the TGT But like I said it is my preference in my opinion What works for me might not work for you
For anyone here with a G29, he states in the video that he thinks the brakes were the biggest factor in the quicker time for the Fanatec. He's completely correct, with that said however, there's a brake mod for the G29 from a company called Ricmotech. It's a load cell, very very easy to install and it eliminates the potentiometer from the brake and is based on pressure placed on the brake pedal instead. This will allow you to trail brake with the G29. Last time I checked (little over a year ago), it was around $130 USD. Yes, I've purchased one and it's very effective.
That’s a very fun video. Having better gear made me enjoy racing even more so I’ve been spending more time driving and therefore getting better overall.
I have the thrustmaster T300 and recently upgraded the pedals to t-lcm pedals. It still takes some getting used to but it does help with the trailbraking a lot
When I switched from Logitech G29 to Fanatec CLS DD Pro 8 Nm after a few years of racing, I was slower for the first 3-4 weeks. With time came the feeling, muscle memory at a decent level and in the end I was fractions of a second faster than my records on Logitech. However, what is crucial in simracing is repeatability, and this allowed me to achieve repeatability of 99.2 - 99,5%, whereas on Logitech I could not reach 99% in ACC. To sum up, in the hotlap I was at a similar level, the laptimes were very similar, but I start making fewer mistakes in the race, which translated into better results at the finish line. In as short a time as your test took, you won't prove anything crucial.
Justifying the stupendous amount of money for a direct drive wheel is more important to the purchaser than the actual performance. Does it make you faster, doubtful, but as there is no REAL feedback from a sim then what is felt through the wheel can matter. It's unfair to do direct comparisons unless you have never used either of them, otherwise you will always perform better with the equipment you have spent the time to setup and become accustomed to.
It mainly comes down to skill and experience. A novice sim racer won't get that much out of more expensive kits, but a more experienced sim racer will be able to really know what they're feeling through the wheel and get everything they can out of it. A good sim racer on a G29 will beat an novice sim racer on a Fanatec DD2 any day. I think pedals are far more important over a wheel. Saying that there's a night and day difference between a spring pedal and a load cell pedal would be a massive understatement. A load cell in the brake alone will help you so much with consistency and with consistency comes speed. Overall in terms of motors though, a high end direct drive is only worth it if you're a experienced to pro sim racer or an evening warrior looking to create the most immersive experience possible with their rig like I am. Good news is more budget friendly wheels are finally starting to come out. The Fanatec CSL DD was an amazing first step in budget DDs, and the MORZA R9 is giving it a run for its money. Thrustmaster is also set to unveil their budget direct drive soon as well. Loved the editing in the video!
I made the jump from a Fanatec CSL DD to a Simucube Pro 25NM base and there was a significant difference with the accuracy of the FF, but didn´t make any difference in lap times. Same when i went from a TM T300 to the CSL DD. The most significant difference in lap times was the jump from the TM pedals to the Heusinkveld pedals. This was a night and day difference, so yes, better gear will make you faster. At least when switching from ordinary pedals to Load cell brakes. But it takes some time to get used to it.
just a slight correction, the internals of the g29 have been in use since at least the driving force gt and possibly before that. its old really old. that being said, you can for about $30 get a more powerfull power supply (24V 6A 144W Power Adapter 100V~240V AC to DC Converter) and if you drill some holes in the chassis over the motors for the extra heat to escape it's perfectly fine for the motors. it roughly doubles the ffb strength.
Bottom line: Direct drive wheel bases provide frictionless feedback, as opposed to a belt or gear driven wheel base that lose some of their feedback fidelity from friction. Direct drive wheels are also capable of more direct, unfiltered force to the user. More force + more feedback = more information for the driver to use and improve. It’s as simple as that.
Of course it will, getting such an expensive gear is a commitment, that you are gonna drive that simulator, delve into engineering like a real nerd(or pro, depends on where you stand), it's not just the performance and the functionalities of a wheel.
I can't believe i didn't know who you were. Thanks so much for the wheel and stand doc.. Best marketplace buy ever.. My new/old wheel is famous.. I'm so stoked.. What you only spent 200 on the wheel.. Really i just wanted the stand... I'm ever so more keen on getting a bigger budget wheel down the track.... Set up set up set up.. Where's my gear shift mount? Lol... But i changed your settings a lot.. Then i changed them back and plus some more. Lol..i will be adding a aftermarket brake Spring very soon... Love the video.. Great production.. See you on the road...
Maybe weird but I feel like I have to say it: You're doing this YT thing very good man! Well edited and everything, it was a real joy to watch this video. As if you were born to be a TH-camr lol, not kidding. Instant sub. 👍 But why tf is your Playstation in front of your TV?! 😂😂
That is an incredibly kind comment, and you've made my day!! :D Thanks so much !! Stay tuned as I've got a lot of awesome content planned for 2022 :D Ps. I've stopped that nonsense now hahahah
Over a single fast lap you can be as quick with low end gear as high end gear. Where High end gear makes you faster is in your consistency to drive those fastest laps. Over the course of a race you will definitly become more faster with better gear.
I can testify to direct drive changing the game completely....used a G29 for 2 years, mainly playing F1 games and managed to get relatively quick using it ....however i recently upgraded to a logitech g pro wheel and pedals and i kid you not, corners that i struggled on with the G29 I can now take with ease as well as get on the throttle so much more confidently and faster as you feel exactly what the car is doing wayore than you ever will be able to woth the likes of a G29...... The load cell pedals as well make trail braking a beautiful experience.....Direct Drive has really changed my driving experience for the better and i definitely drive faster with it
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What do you think ? Did you get faster with more kit?
it will make you more consistand and that will make you faster.
i do have to add that a stronger wheelbase isnt as big a help as better pedals will be tho.
from all your kitt the pedals are the biggest advantage, a stronger/ better wheelbase might have
you end up fighting the wheel more then not.
some of the absolute alien drivers are doing it with a t150 or even lower...
i have 2 dd wheelbases (the accuforce v2 @16nm and the csl dd @8nm) and since im a racing purist
i do have my fair amount of fights with the wheel that i dont always win, but im not the guy that wants or needs
to be the fastest, i find clean driving way more important...
so let me also tell you that the amount of nm isnt so much about the power as it is to the amount of ffb details you get.
yes it's more powerfull, but more importantly it gives you a wider range of ffb details.
on the fanatec 8 nm dd wheels you got 8 things you can adjust (or atleast i think it was 8)
on my accuforce 16nm i have around 20 different things i can adjust as far as ffb detail goes.
it shows when driving with them while using the same amount of power too, for that test i turned down the accuforce to about 6nm
and did the same with the csl dd.
while still getting the same level of detailed ffb (only weaker) you clearly feel the difference between the two.
i did forget your on a console, so you only get 2/3 of what a pc user gets. if even that much.
not playing the pc master card here, it's a fact...
i also forgot to mention that i use the heusinkveld sprints, witch is a comperable step up from the fanatec loadcell V3 pedals and 2 steps up from the csl lc pedals.
For me I believe that no one should just start off with a high end setup unless they can show that they can be consistent with a mid to entry level gear. No matter how good your setup is, if you can't drive, then you can't drive. And if you're gonna spend all that money on a wheel, you might as well play on pc with a triple monitor or vr setup since you can get so much more out of your equipment regardless if it's high end or entry level.
In my experience coming from a G29 to a GT DD Pro, yes, better gear made me faster. But more than anything my enjoyment went through the roof and ultimately that’s the most important improvement. Smiles per mile and all that ;)
It made u faster because driving is easier to u now ;p
@@FirssenSimracing or because the detail is easier to feel
@@jxc7343 that's the part of making driving easier...
...except for simracers who hate FFB ;p
was it better gear, or natural skill progression? i feel someone who bought a topend wheel and then 2 weeks/months/years later swapped to a g29 would be faster on the g29 for the reason of natural improvement.
There is also psychological aspect of knowing you invested a lot of money in a dd wheel. When you drive g29 on full ffb. It like driving with flat tires. The dd wheels are known to cause thumb injuries up to torn ligaments.after a crash where the ffb cause the wheel to twist so violently tubs get broken and or ligaments torn of. I don't care for that level of realistically where I need to recover for several months.main reason why they don't sell them in regular stores it not a children's toy any more when you go direct drive.
I love my g29, reasonable price and works well. I’ve been considering upgrading to a fanatec but it’s hard to justify the pricetag, if I’m going to be spending thousands of dollars I’d rather put that money into my real car
Exactly my problem 😅
or pay for a day in a real circuit
Did you consider CSL dd? You can get everything at around 1k, also Monza and simcube have good budget offerings now. Don't get me wrong, it's still expensive, but way more affordable than 1 year ago even
I just upgraded from a g27 to a t300 and the difference is crazy to be honest…all I’m gonna need for a while until everything else in terms of setup is perfect
You are so right, I am going to full repaint plus aluminum rims my old second car and it will be like new. Cost under 2000 Euros (Greece). There are much better things to do with 2000, unless you re rich and money is not an issue, which is fine, but not wise for the majority of people. It all comes down to how much one is willing to spend.
Why don't you try driving these setups also : cheap wheel with expensive pedals and expensive wheel with cheap pedals and see the difference. The results will definitely be interesting.
Agreed, I will do that and see what happens! Ive got a gaming PC on the way and we’ll test it after :)
I bet pedals have more (mostly the brake pedal!) "weight" in sim performance, even more on solid software as ACC. Can't wait to know the result
I run old thrustmaster t150 for iracing I just got into iracing last year. Someone told me not to worry bout the wheel but to buy different pedals instead.
That's a good idea, upgrading my wheel made everything feel cooler but didn't make me faster.
Upgrading my pedals though, I got a tiny bit faster almost immediately.
@@bubberdeewolfe what's iracing
The biggest difference I feel with more expensive wheels is being able to feel the limit more. I can feel the wheel getting just a little lighter if any rubber is about to lose traction, where as on my old G27 and CSR, I could never feel that limit. So for me this made me faster and more consistent. If I crash now, 99% of the time, I know exactly what I did. With my older wheels, sometimes I was guessing. Also been sim racing since the mid 2000's with Iracing, ACC, and the GT series to a much lesser extent.
@@corporalansh Buy a T300RS great wheel and cheap.
that's because you are a slow driver.
Practice of course always makes you better, and the fastest sim racer could blow us away with a g29. But with that said… the more expensive set up will also make you a better, and faster, more consistent, due to the fact that you can actually feel what is going on with your car, down to the smallest detail
Best comment.
But you can do the same in a g29 lowering the gain no? It’s hard to justify the price jump when the difference is not immense
but could he destroy us with a T150 ? =')
@@yuyy8565 it’s not worth it only if you’re not looking to get a more realistic feel of the car.
Otherwise you can’t make a G29 imitate a DD wheel.
Man I LOVE your Energy! The way you package your content and combine it with your personality is fantastic, keep it up!
While im here id also like to add my take on this whole debate, adding a point many people overlook: In more hardcore sim racing games such as iRacing or ACC, tyre management becomes increasingly more difficult and important.
A DD wheel allows you to get a much better feeling for the tyres' behaviour and in my experience has made me a lot smoother, meaning that it might not always impact outright laptime, but is definitely benificial for longer race stints with degredation, bringing your overall racetime down while reducing errors
How does this guy not have at least 500k subscribers, highest quality video I have seen in a while!! Keep up the hard work my guy :)
Thanks so much for the support, fingers crossed I get there one day 😁
FAM JUST REALIZED HE DOESNT? judging by quality you really put a lot of work and dedication in your vids. Wow. I'm surprised you don't get the recognition you deserve for that astonishing content, video- and audio quality. Maybe it's simracing kinda being nieche...
No doubt you will @@TheCarDoc1
It’s not about expensive setups it’s all about track knowledge and getting around the track fast. Breaking points and apexs knowledge is extremely more important than expensive wheels and setups.
Answer: Expensive gear makes driving a lot easier so starting on better gear allows to make skill progress a lot quicker, especially with good, load cell pedals.
You know what mate. I'm not even here for the steering wheels, I stumbled on the channel as I was entertaining getting a g29 but I'm really just glued to you and your presenting style.
You are a natural presenter. Upbeat, Clear voice with character so no deadpan delivery but not too much character to make you difficult to understand and the injection of comedy into your delivery was great too. Awesome vid!
... and yep g29 will do me for now :)
That is really fantastic feedback!! I’m glad you enjoyed the video :)
I went from a logitech g920 to a fanatec csl dd and it's a MASSIVE difference. It didn't necessarily make me faster, but the enjoyment I got out of it was so much better. the csl dd just feels so much better and is must more immersive. I only have the 5nm power supply right now, but I'm planning on upgrading to the 8nm power supply for the extra immersion.
the g920 is $300 brand new and I got the csl dd ready2race bundle for $400. To me, it's well worth the extra $100.
Honestly I was slower with my CSL DD than my 300rs for a while before getting used to the different feel and pedals.
Edit: For anyone considering the sim racing hobby on a budget, get an entry level Logitech or Thrustmaster and don't look back. Even the lower priced stuff is a joy to use IMO.
The Pedals are key, especially the brake pedal.
I had the same problem going from a G27 to a T500...until I modded the brake I was up to 10 seconds slower with the T500/T3PA Pedals that came with it. After Modding I'm at least 2.5 seconds faster than the G27 on Bathurst (from a 2:09.964 to a 2:07.222) . On a default setup, not a bespoke one for the mountain.
And a lot more comfortable at getting close to the walls on the Mountain, as you feel way more detail in the FFB.
You can tip-toe a lot closer to the limit with better FFB, but consistent and precise braking gives you a lot more time.
Add to that the SHH Shifter vs. the G27 shifter and it's worlds apart, I rarely misshift with the SHH, as the shifting is both smoother and sharper, as well as quicker and more precise. The stick itself is longer, but the throw is shorter, giving it a nice sporty feel and quick shifts. It's lower throw to stick length ratio is a definate improvement over the akward very long throw for the short shifter stick in the G27/Logitech G shifter. 5th and 6th gear are a bit weak, but even in those mishifts are maybe once or twice in two weeks. (If the shifter is properly aligned!) Compare that to the 1-2 mishifts every other session with the G27. With the SHH full manual shifting is fun and the shifter is about 120 Euros with the optional sequential plate, and postage to germany from Spain. (Without Postage it's about 108-109 Euros.)
Also push down, twist 90 degrees left, flip one switch, that's the whole process of switching to sequential mode. Takes about 10-20 seconds. 40 if you switch out to the optional sequential plate for better guidance.
Oh and it's a 7+R Shifter, with one extra gear over the Logitech one.
So heavier gear does not make you faster, for me the biggest thing that has made me faster is more experience, but good equipment makes it easier to be consistent. And consistency wins races.
Edit: P.S. Going used also makes good stuff way more affordable, as I got my T500RS used for about 220€ Including postage, the old F150 F1 Wheel for 118€ (including postage, and since it's 9 months old with left over warranty) and the F599XX Evo 30cm wheel for 128 euros (five weeks old, so warranty left over and in perfect shape). The brake mod for 36-37 € and the SHH shifter are the only thing new. If you want gloves, just get the Mechanix Speciality 0.9 (0.9mm faux leather grip surfaces) for about 25-30 Euros, they're good enough, cheap and you can use them for stuff like fixing shutters or other things at home.
Well of course
I beg to differ. I wasted money on a Logitech wheel and the T300 RS GT I later moved on to was so much better, it was beyond explanation or price comparison. Even just gear to belt is a world of difference, perhaps just as great a difference to DD (haven't ever used one). I would personally recommend everyone should always skip any sort of gear-driven wheel and only consider a Thrustmaster as the entry point, because honestly, you're just throwing money away with "entry level" hardware.
@@Curratum I agree, did the same but didn't waste money on logi cause I got a g27. Now I got a t300rs gt and logitrash is just absolute pure dumpsterfire garbage that's only worth it to buy used. I mean I didn't even sim race that often cause I hated the wheel and setting it up, now I play on my thrustmaster daily whereas with logi I did monthly as one is a lot more enjoyable and most importantly: quiet and smooth. No more waking up entire house with late night dirt rally session.
The easily pneumo modded brake pedal on logi was great tho. But you can achive similiar results with a squash ball on thrustmasters pedal.
I reccomend all aspiring simracers to spend 120 bucks tops on logitech if they really can't save up for thrustmaster since the race is tomorrow.
DD’s don’t make you faster. They give you cleaner and more FFB than lower units. It communicates more allowing you to have more consistent fast times. Than make you faster.
That being said, premium DD wheels are nice. But I agree TS300 or entry level wheels are perfectly fine.
In my experience, you are more consistant with a better wheel but not neccasarily faster. Consistancy is what you are looking for when racing as that will generally win you races. I started on a 2nd hand DrivingForce GT wheel, then onto a G29 for a few years and now on a CSL DD wheel. I enjoy hotlapping from time to time, and have set lap records on PC2 with all my wheels. Mostly on the DFGT wheel but that is due to the time I put into hotlapping with that wheel. If you enjoy sim racing and put in the hours, then a DD wheel is a good investment as you do get more feedback and enjoyment from it.
I had the g29, the new g29 the t300 and now i have a dd pro
the g29, new 29 and t300 to me all felt the same so if you're looking to get in the sim racing world, go with the cheapest one you can find imo
If you're really into it and want to spend more the dd pro is a no brainer, i got the 5nm version, bought the 8nm kit afterwards and honestly I don't use it with all at max force because it's too much for me
The biggest difference besides the feeling on pedals to me is that you can feel what's happening with the tires on the dd pro, something that i couldn't really tell on the cheaper wheels, that reason itself makes you a faster racer
If you can afford a Fanatec and you like sim racing just do it, its awesome
Before upgrading from Logitech, I noticed an improvement in laptimes with positioning my monitor better with more accurate FOV. This with the wheel and pedals upgrade was a game changer .... for me 👍🏾🙏🏾
Go VR.
- No messing at all with FOV
- Immersion goes through the roof
- much better sense of speed and distances
Especially in Dirt Rally 2.0, VR made me a lot better.
@@De-M-oN you cant do VR in alot of sim racing games like gt7
@@De-M-oN sadly none of the good games have vr. asseto is dogwater for anything other than time trial nerding and drifting.
@@FLCLANFORTNITE GT7 finally got now VR with the release of PSVR2. I play only PC VR though
@@De-M-oN yep, its super fun! already got one
Just got into sim racing, picked up a 2nd hand (used once by a kid who wanted a flight sim instead) g923 setup with shifter, it works perfectly and I personally think its amazing and for £210 not a bad price
Been watching you for a while now, your enthusiasm is great, and ur also good at racing, your naturally talented at making people laugh and making them smile, also got talent behind the wheel, keep it up, your smashing it 💙👊🏻
Load cell brakes make the biggest difference. Brakes plus a solid base to put them on are the first things you should spend your money on. Good video making this point. Consistent and repeatable braking is the key to faster times.
A decent brake pedal does make a difference (it did for me). Otherwise the wheel made no difference, other than my old G29 grinding its gears becoming slightly annoying. I don't get that now with the DD of course.
I can tell you from experience that, if you are transitioning to a wheel for the very first time, what wheel you use really won't matter at first. If youve only ever used a controller, There is going to be a huge learning curve and your times are going to stink until you "learn the language" of whatever wheel you move forward with. I'm sure once you've sim raced for a while a better wheel with more precise inputs/outputs makes a huge difference. But at an entry level all wheels will feel like crap for a while
For the beginner I would say better gear won't make any difference. Maybe you get a bit more consistent earlier. But you'll have to learn the basics of racecraft and build skills like proper shifting, the correct line of sight, trailbreaking, etc. first.
Later on the better equipment will of course help you to build consistency and to carve of the last tenths of a second.
But as always skill will surpass the pure equipment. There are also alien sim drivers using Logitech or Thrustmaster hw.
Most underrated sim racing TH-camr.
You are too kind sir 😄
Definitely yes. I went from a g29 to a fanatec CLS DD and saw 2 seconds faster lap times. The superior precision and better force feedback gave me better car control and confidence.
I'm hoping to go from a thrustmaster t80 (No ffb) to a t300. That will be quite the jump considering I've never touched a wheel that had any sort of ffb
Thats a huge price difference for 2 seconds imo
My times are usually a second or so off world record times on my g29 so I can't wait to be 1 second clear of everyone when I finally upgrade 🤣. Seriously though, if you've found 2 seconds out of nowhere just by upgrading your wheel then you must have been slow af to start with.
@@zip-zucc That's is like going from blind to seeing...
@@r6luis it's not just 2 seconds, its the ability to play for longer (assuming cockpit upgrades as well)
Absolutely amazing video comparison and mindblowing editing it was like watching a documentary so engaging and seemless! Keep up the amazing videos coming!
Since buying my CSL DD at launch, I still haven't beaten my pb in Assetto Corsa around the Nordschleife in the 2017 911 RSR (6:39 full lap, not tourist), that was done on a T300 after smoking a few packed bowls...
But I still believe it has made me more consistent, especially with loadcell brakes coming from T3PA Pro's
Lmao we would get along well
When I was a teenager I spent $1000 on fishing gear, still couldn’t catch a thing. If your a beginner.. just buy the basic stuff. But by all means make mid level your entry level.
Wise advice and very true, all about affordability at the end and having as much fun with what you have :)
In my experience, more expensive gear made me faster.
Coming from a G29 some laptimes were nearly impossible to beat and after buying a Moza R9, those laptimes often got shattered on the 1-3rd lap. It's so much easier to stay on the limit without going over it.
Granted, I was running against the capabilities of the G29 and only then would it make sense to upgrade.
I agree with you! I have found the same thing, although I definitely would like to try a g29 with a brake mod as I think that makes a large difference!
@@TheCarDoc1 So many prople will argue that gear doesn't matter but at the top level, margins are so small that I can guarantee you, you will burn yourself out trying to keep up with a G29 whereas those with Simucubes or Fanatec DD's can always be at the top level while putting in half the effort.
I can say this with confidence because I just moved up to an SC2 PRO and I've been winning ever since
@@fridolfgranq so should I get more expensive or cheap?
@@mcwclapz1994 Depends on what you want and what your budget is. If you want to compete at the highest level on ACC, rF2 or iRacing then you will have a much easier time with expensive gear. If you just enjoy sim racing as a hobby then a T300 / G29 is all you need.
I personally just upgraded from a T300 and T-LCM to SC2 Pro and Heusinkveld sprints and the difference in my driving is night and day. The reason I upgraded is because I'm competing in this years LeMans virtual series. But if I didn't do sim racing seriously then I probably would have never upgraded
@@fridolfgranq ok probably just a hobby for now. Is the g920 also good for hobby sim racing? Budget is under 5k
I think the biggest difference is from the stronger force feedback you can get smoother turning in corners and if you have a g29 mounted to a desk with a gaming chair and you think you need a better wheel the first thing you need a a rig to mount it to and that will benefit you significantly then think about a upgrading your wheel
I bought the Fanatec DD GT 7 and was going to sell my Logitech g293. After two weeks with the Fanatec I changed my mind and sold the Fanatec instead. I didn't see any reasons for that high price tag and all of the hype about it, I honestly have more fun with the g293 which I kept by the way.
I'm not here to change your mind. But you probably did not experience the fidelity of information that the direct drive can give you. Those information get lost if you are using gear driven wheels like the logitech. Nonetheless you're having fun w/ the logitech so I guess that's enough :)
Maybe in GT 7 it doesn't change a lot, but on the pc with Racesims the difference is night and day. It doesn't make you faster, but it does make you more consistent easier.
The most important thing is your brake pedal in simracing.
Good that you have the same amount of fun with the Logitech, that's a very good reason to keep it!
Oh that is interesting… I definitely feel the fidelity is higher on the fanatec…out of interest what pedals did you have?
I think that everybody needs to understand that usually you'll go for a g29 from a gamepad driving. So that also should be considered. Of course the fanatec is better but is it so much better that the g29 is better confronted with the pad driving? It's hard to think that it is
Good comparison. Immersion is more fun and its really a discovery. Jumping right into the most expensive gear you miss the relativity of the experiences you gain if you level up shortly and learn. Its nice to scale up.
Why not buy expensive gear and gradually move up the force feedback level?
@@thrasherdave1428 It's not just a software / algorithmic problem. Some cheaper hardware for example has to compensate for lack of torque and does fancy pancy effects to sell to you the idea if 'haptics'. It's hard to understand/explain the difference of effects based haptics, without trying it first.
In any case, ultimately to each's own, but slowing building up has advantages, since you can relate to other hardware you have tried before. ;-) IMHO
I went from a TM T300 set, to Fanatec CSL DD with Heusinkveld Ultimate pedals and then switched to a Simucube Pro wheel base. Same with my flight sim gear. I started with the Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, then switched to Virpil T50CM2 base with Realsimulator F-18 grip and WinWing F-18 throttle. Point is, i could have saved a stockpile of money if i´d skipped the entry level gear and purchased the high end stuff right away. I´d say if you´re confident to realy enjoy your new hobby, get the real good stuff from the beginning. Saves you nerves and money.
I’ve been using my G29 since I first got it christmas 2020 with no sim experience, playing GT sport. My wheel was mounted to a couch side table with an old gaming chair I had In the garage. 5 months later I was already able to qualify within the top 50 of the North American region. I realized I was top split when I made it into a lobby with Igor fraga, Kie’s American account, and Super GT’s American account, finishing top 10 as well. All with a setup made of household items. And I still use it when I play GT7. The other more expensive wheels are great, but you definitely don’t need all that to be fast and see results. Hell there’s even people who use the ps4/5 controller to play, and are top split drivers as well. Your equipment does not determine your speed!
Found your channel today and honestly believe you're going places man, enjoyable content and engaging as heck, best of luck homie and glad to say I found your content 👍👍
Aw man I appreciate that so much! Very kind of you!
Thanks for the video mate. I am considering upgrading to a DD wheel from a Logitech G920 and you have given me a good reason to do so. A very fair video and super useful!
It would be better if you have more experience in this game a good lap time is a 1.42 on watkins glen on softs so in my opinion first you need a certain level to really compare them
Going between the wheels was tricky in one take. I got top 2000 on the watkins glen daily race qualifying times a few weeks ago so I am fairly fast!
8:38 Please DON'T try to grab a DD wheel that's doing that. If your finger gets stuck between the paddle shifter and wheel it's gonna hurt. I found out.
My only question would be, did the rig make the difference too ? Different seating style and position may have made you more comfortable and relaxed to put in a faster time.
I'm about to look at a wheel and the G29 was where I was going but might save for a thrustmaster instead. Could never afford a DD
the answer is yes, i just got my first rig 6 months ago. its a massive upgrade, you instantly feel the difference and it will make you faster because your braking can become more consistent. two pieces of advice, buy bass shakers for your rig, you only need two really, front and rear, they make a lot of difference because you can feel your wheels locking in the corners and the engine vibration really adds to immersion in vr. and second cammus is doing a dd wheel set for like 600 usd and its advertised as 15nm but actually its 18nm so really its 15nm with headroom.
Stiffer rig = less flex so ur inputs are more consistant and u receive more feedback to ur hands instead of rig.
Just get the G29 with the TrueBrake V2 mod. you'll save money and have a great brake pedal!
@@SupaBuma this mod cost same as used Fanatec CSPv1/2, CSR-Elite, CSLs ot T-LCMs and it's fake load cell effect compared to real ones.
Awesome channel, subbed
Thanks mate :)
Had a g29 for a few years and upgraded to the gt dd and boy it's a world of difference and my lap times and consistency definitely improved with the dd
To be fair, it's more about the gaming experience than the performance. Switching up the direct drive does not necessarily make you quicker, but it surely do improve your experience by a lot. You'd be surprised by how many of those top sim-racers are using DS4 or keyboard and mouse. ;)
But drifting with a direct drive definitely helps a lot, but thats a different category.
I sometimes drive with a few people in Automobilista 2. I have a G29 and most of the others drive with Fanatec DD's. They were really suprised when I told them that I drive with a G29 because I was keeping up so well on the Nordschleife. So I guess there is something to it.
That second is fully due to the brake pedal as you correctly mentioned. I got "truebrake" mod for the Logitech, made me a lot quicker. It's really a game changer.
Obviously the "I can't fell the front wheels" has a lot to do with the wheel, but the game has a very very poor force feedback imo. Give it a try in ACC and then...sell the G29. :) You will get very close to your 200 bucks back.
I'm thinking of upgrading from G29 to Moza R5 kit. My current wheel was with me for many years and I had a lot of fun with it, but I think it's time to change. I'm still under the age that allows me to legally drive (18 yo in my country), so I want to have fun at home for now, and save for a good car when I'll get myself a job (I think I will have a starter car as a gift from my parents).
Important to note the new logitech direct drive pro wheel comes with improved pedals that will also work with the G29.
You can also find awesome aftermarket parts for g29 like pedals and sequential shifters that improve the quality. You can also replace the original wheel with a real racing wheel with after market accessories
Loved this dude. Great idea too. My favourite bit was just at the end "let's go for a fast lap... That's that then" 🤣🤣 looking forward to what's next
For performance, there is a slight jump in terms of consistency between not DD and DD. But other than that, upgrades are not gonna make you faster. Rather, they make the driving experience more comfortable and remove distractions which would give away that you are in a sim rather than a real car
I came from a t-300 rs gt edition to the dd pro. The t-300 was already a nice wheel, but the DD pro is on another level. The sensation of grip or lack of it is so much more tactile. Also, the load cell pedal was a game changer. I find myself lightly tapping the brake a lot more, which allows me to carry more speed in corners.
Tbh the g29 is better for your wallet, and I had more fun with a g29
Agreed
Man you are a true professional. Your style of presenting the content is sublime! Subscribed :)
I think the Logitech wheels get more hate than they deserve. If you get one on special it's a great deal.
That being said, it's rattles like there's no tomorrow lololol
They deserve every bit of hate gear driven is bad
Its a great deal used for someone just starting or without having deep pockets but as you said that rattle tho 🤣
T150 babu
The Logitech fills the gap between cheap crap to DD nicely so players can enjoy and develop and see if they really want to invest. It's such a big jump to DD cost wise if you don't have deep pockets you really need to be sure it's the path for you. I have Thrustmaster T500 and I'd love a DD wheel but I'm not convinced it's the right choice for me personally.
I love your energy haha, subbed !
You da man! 🤣
I might be a tiny bit faster on the DD pro compared to the G29, but it's definitely not worth the price for that.
I paid for the new rig setup because I wanted more stability, rigidness and better FFB. For that immersion it was worth it, but to get better times, not really.
So if I just keep my g29 wheel base and buy say a Fanatec pedal set I’d reap most the benefits at less than half the cost?
I just got GT7 and a T150 wheel…. No complaints from me. Ignorance is bliss lmao 😆
Hahaha its all about having the most fun with what you have in the end!
Good video, one thing I will add though is the Logitech has massive potential for low-cost mods that make a BIG difference in it's usability & immersion.
Three of the best for value & improved performance:
A variable pitch spring to replace the default brake pedal spring + stopper (reduces the stiffness, makes braking smoother / progressive)
Magnetic ring mod for the paddle shifter (snaps back the shifters)
Replacement spring for the manual gear shifter (increases the pressure required four-fold)
All the above three cost less than £40 / $50 total, take minutes to install yet make a significant difference to the experience.
anyone using gt7 as a sim shouldnt be trusted
Hahahaha its a fun game to play!
@@TheCarDoc1 lol i trust you it my second and a half year sim racing i got ordered my wheel a few weeks ago just wanted someones opinion
Great video and interesting experiment. During lockdown I took the plunge and bought a Thrustmaster T150 Pro (which comes with the T3PA pedals) and a wheel stand for my Playstation. Once I got to grips with it I absolutely loved it and was a couple of seconds faster than my friends who were still using controllers. Then I soon upgraded to a T300RS base and a SF1000 Ferrari add-on wheel. And the difference is staggering. I know it's still a world away from the top of the range kit but I can feel so much more detail now and am definitely quicker than I was with the T150.
I used to use a G27 forever and then upgraded to the csl dd with the load cell pedals. The biggest difference is the amount of detail that is fed back from the direct drive wheels. You can feel every bump on the road and even the weight of the car. And the load cells are much better for brake feel and consistent braking. It allows for much better modulation of the brake. I think like you said, the pairing of the wheel and the pedal is important. If you get a direct drive wheel and use a low end pedal set, you're not gaining anything from it. Very good vidoe!
I had a logitech DFGT and the pedals stopped working. Bought some ClubSport V3 pedals and my times Improved ALOT. It was more significant an improvement than when I finally went to a CSL DD. The DD made it possible drive at the limit and not pass the limit alot easier. Also I could finally catch a slide lolol
What about the difference between a small TV screen and large screen? Is there a difference in precision and lap times?
That face after “isn’t she lovely” was hilarious buddy.
You get a clutch pedal with the g29. Its a great wheel in general for playing video games.
Wow! TH-cam finally put a video on my recommended videos that I want to watch.
Boom! Subbed.
If this is going to be a serious sim racing channel, you will need a computer and VR. That is the next level.
I replaced my g27 with a csw 2.5 and a 200kg loadcell pedals, and I went from the table to a full cockpit with screen. The difference is very noticeable, and there is a lot of difference in terms of feeling and race peace. To be fair it's another game and the main difference is that you feel all the disconnection in the ground. So that's make you faster and also you need less time to learn a track. I improved my lap times and also I'm enjoying simracing more. If you are wondering if is worth to buy new stuff yes, it is. It's definitely another game and another type of immersion.
The last thing that changes your racing session is that you can feel when you are on the limit and it's easier to find the limit. This means that in 25 minutes of a race you can push without having the constant fear of twist the car. this probably is the main thing that change if you want to be competitive in a 25 or 40 minutes race. With my g27 was impossible to always push hard without spinning.
When you 'messed up' the corner more to the end of the vid, you were entering very wide, which I think was actually better. I think you dive in a bit too soon sometimes. Remember, use all the road you need :) Very good video, now I know I don't want a small logitech and will be better of with better pedals. Thank you!
Subscribed! Great video - thank you for making!
Thanks for the good feedback :)
I have a G920 and GT Track cockpit. Actually selling both and changing to a Simagic 23nm wheel and NLR Aluminum profile frame. Can't wait for them to arrive!
It's your preference at the end of the day I own 5 different wheels 2 direct drives I played Grand tourism 7 All day everyday And the best wheel for me for this game would be thrustmaster TGT I feel like the wheel was designed for this game the The feel that you feel in the game you don't feel it and no other will And I feel like I'm a lot faster With the TGT But like I said it is my preference in my opinion What works for me might not work for you
For anyone here with a G29, he states in the video that he thinks the brakes were the biggest factor in the quicker time for the Fanatec. He's completely correct, with that said however, there's a brake mod for the G29 from a company called Ricmotech. It's a load cell, very very easy to install and it eliminates the potentiometer from the brake and is based on pressure placed on the brake pedal instead. This will allow you to trail brake with the G29. Last time I checked (little over a year ago), it was around $130 USD.
Yes, I've purchased one and it's very effective.
G920 with a few mods is perfect. Pair it with a stand and your literally set for anything
This 💯
Fanatec wheel with Logitech pedals sounds like a good answer.
Christ
Awesome video and great content.
Very well made and asked a lot of questions worth answering.
That’s a very fun video. Having better gear made me enjoy racing even more so I’ve been spending more time driving and therefore getting better overall.
bro i can tell your going to be big in the future keep working hard man and the algorithm will do it’s magic 🙏🏾
Thanks so much, I appreciate the kind words!!
Wheel comparison for sim racing , plays GT7. Mate you didn't even try a sim racing game like (Iracing,RF2,AC,ACC,Automobilista 1&2).
I use the Thrustmaster T248 for quite a while now. I love the option to choose between 6 force feedback levels. It's a great wheel to start racing!
Yes it’s not weak like the g29 it’ll break your arm lol
@@devontaedunn1278 you need some 'serious training' to play with the heaviest level 😅😅
dude, ur channel is so much fun.
I have the thrustmaster T300 and recently upgraded the pedals to t-lcm pedals. It still takes some getting used to but it does help with the trailbraking a lot
When I switched from Logitech G29 to Fanatec CLS DD Pro 8 Nm after a few years of racing, I was slower for the first 3-4 weeks. With time came the feeling, muscle memory at a decent level and in the end I was fractions of a second faster than my records on Logitech. However, what is crucial in simracing is repeatability, and this allowed me to achieve repeatability of 99.2 - 99,5%, whereas on Logitech I could not reach 99% in ACC. To sum up, in the hotlap I was at a similar level, the laptimes were very similar, but I start making fewer mistakes in the race, which translated into better results at the finish line.
In as short a time as your test took, you won't prove anything crucial.
The look back with the helmet on. Great video guys.
I'm looking forward to my first DD wheel incl. pedals as soon I can afford them.
Still racing with my 16 years old G25
Same. Still racing with a standard PS4 controller
Justifying the stupendous amount of money for a direct drive wheel is more important to the purchaser than the actual performance.
Does it make you faster, doubtful, but as there is no REAL feedback from a sim then what is felt through the wheel can matter.
It's unfair to do direct comparisons unless you have never used either of them, otherwise you will always perform better with the equipment you have spent the time to setup and become accustomed to.
It mainly comes down to skill and experience. A novice sim racer won't get that much out of more expensive kits, but a more experienced sim racer will be able to really know what they're feeling through the wheel and get everything they can out of it. A good sim racer on a G29 will beat an novice sim racer on a Fanatec DD2 any day. I think pedals are far more important over a wheel. Saying that there's a night and day difference between a spring pedal and a load cell pedal would be a massive understatement. A load cell in the brake alone will help you so much with consistency and with consistency comes speed. Overall in terms of motors though, a high end direct drive is only worth it if you're a experienced to pro sim racer or an evening warrior looking to create the most immersive experience possible with their rig like I am. Good news is more budget friendly wheels are finally starting to come out. The Fanatec CSL DD was an amazing first step in budget DDs, and the MORZA R9 is giving it a run for its money. Thrustmaster is also set to unveil their budget direct drive soon as well.
Loved the editing in the video!
Excellent comment! Thank you! I agree with what youre saying hugely 🙃
Thanks for the review. Finally convinced me to upgrade my set and sell the G923 to someone who will enjoy it over Christmas.
Good choice, glad I could help!
I made the jump from a Fanatec CSL DD to a Simucube Pro 25NM base and there was a significant difference with the accuracy of the FF, but didn´t make any difference in lap times. Same when i went from a TM T300 to the CSL DD. The most significant difference in lap times was the jump from the TM pedals to the Heusinkveld pedals. This was a night and day difference, so yes, better gear will make you faster. At least when switching from ordinary pedals to Load cell brakes. But it takes some time to get used to it.
2:26 That face expression hahaha
I'm about to make the plunge and go from Logitech gt driving force to direct drive.
just a slight correction, the internals of the g29 have been in use since at least the driving force gt and possibly before that. its old really old. that being said, you can for about $30 get a more powerfull power supply (24V 6A 144W Power Adapter 100V~240V AC to DC Converter) and if you drill some holes in the chassis over the motors for the extra heat to escape it's perfectly fine for the motors. it roughly doubles the ffb strength.
absolute dope crispy content 👌👌immediately subscribed 🙌🙌
Thanks so much!!
Just found your channel, rather enjoyable to watch and you come across as very likeable.
You keep doing you 👍
Thanks so much Alec, thats very kind, I hope you enjoy sticking around 😀
Bottom line: Direct drive wheel bases provide frictionless feedback, as opposed to a belt or gear driven wheel base that lose some of their feedback fidelity from friction. Direct drive wheels are also capable of more direct, unfiltered force to the user.
More force + more feedback = more information for the driver to use and improve. It’s as simple as that.
Of course it will, getting such an expensive gear is a commitment, that you are gonna drive that simulator, delve into engineering like a real nerd(or pro, depends on where you stand), it's not just the performance and the functionalities of a wheel.
Thanks. Just got home with my second hand G29. Gonna get on a game and see how it feels. Minor investment, potentially unlimited fun!
I can't believe i didn't know who you were. Thanks so much for the wheel and stand doc.. Best marketplace buy ever.. My new/old wheel is famous.. I'm so stoked.. What you only spent 200 on the wheel.. Really i just wanted the stand... I'm ever so more keen on getting a bigger budget wheel down the track.... Set up set up set up.. Where's my gear shift mount? Lol... But i changed your settings a lot.. Then i changed them back and plus some more. Lol..i will be adding a aftermarket brake Spring very soon... Love the video.. Great production.. See you on the road...
No worries!! I wouldnt say famous just yet 🤣 but I hope you enjoy it like I did! I am interested to see what you think of the brake mod!
i have the g29 and i found removing the dam rubber thing from inside the brakes helped a lot but do so at your own risk
Maybe weird but I feel like I have to say it:
You're doing this YT thing very good man! Well edited and everything, it was a real joy to watch this video. As if you were born to be a TH-camr lol, not kidding. Instant sub. 👍
But why tf is your Playstation in front of your TV?! 😂😂
That is an incredibly kind comment, and you've made my day!! :D
Thanks so much !! Stay tuned as I've got a lot of awesome content planned for 2022 :D
Ps. I've stopped that nonsense now hahahah
@@TheCarDoc1 Hell yeah, imma stay tuned asf! For 2023 tho! ;P
Over a single fast lap you can be as quick with low end gear as high end gear. Where High end gear makes you faster is in your consistency to drive those fastest laps. Over the course of a race you will definitly become more faster with better gear.
Seat belts?? safety first, i guess... Good vid bro!!
I can testify to direct drive changing the game completely....used a G29 for 2 years, mainly playing F1 games and managed to get relatively quick using it ....however i recently upgraded to a logitech g pro wheel and pedals and i kid you not, corners that i struggled on with the G29 I can now take with ease as well as get on the throttle so much more confidently and faster as you feel exactly what the car is doing wayore than you ever will be able to woth the likes of a G29...... The load cell pedals as well make trail braking a beautiful experience.....Direct Drive has really changed my driving experience for the better and i definitely drive faster with it