Quinn, you are right in drumming home this takes time. It took me 10 hours of this for it to start to come together, but now at close to 70 hours I’m almost completely natural at this. Thanks for all the videos on this. A lot of the beginner channels out there leave out a lot of the nuance and more advanced techniques which you kindly provide.
Out of those four tips, the number 1 thing that helped me was counterbalancing. When I finally got my ass off the seat and REALLY counter balanced it took away ALL my fear of falling/dropping the bike. Thanks, Quinn! You the man!!
@@mattdesjardins3776 that’s great Matt- yes it’s a huge help. Just remember the bulk of the work is upper body/torso for meaningful counterbalance more than just the butt, so work on that- you should feel pulling on your sides, stretching. Still, great to hear👍
Quinn, I really appreciate your walk though and explanation on these concepts. Listening to these lessons literally got me through motor school successfully last October.
@@chrismatkin7354 Chris- 1st of all congratulations on getting through motor school! That in itself is a huge achievement, I’m very happy for you👍 and hearing that this helped you directly is pretty much the whole reason I do it. So thanks for taking a minute to reach out, I really do appreciate it. And along the way please feel free to connect with any questions or issues and consider me a resource if I can help in anyway.
Thanks coach! Just what I have been working on lately. I thought I had to go faster but could only get to full lock at slow speed. Thought I was doing it wrong but now I have the confidence to keep working 👍🏼
I can't wait to give these a go when the snow in the UK melts. I am considered an advanced rider having done an advanced rider course and passed with a top grade, but they never checked slow speed riding. One thing I have always struggled with is tight u-turns. Just watching this video I had an AHA moment. To lean forward. Got a feeling I'm going to be binging on your videos once I finish work tomorrow morning
@@markgr1nyer i’m definitely pumped to see how this works out for you, make sure to take your time and work the drills and then give me a full report, sir👍😊
@@PoliceMotorTraining Just an update. I did a full lock U Turn on my RT for the first time this evening. Bike was still upright (well it didn't feel like it was dropping too much) but just by leaning forward it gave me so much better control over the throttle and clutch I was amazed by how easy it was and how stable the bike felt. I wasn't even trying to be honest I just needed to turn the bike tight and all of a sudden the bars stopped. When I parked the bike up I had a huge smile on my face
Great lesson, Quinn! It took me 3 years to get an understanding how these 4 techniques work and I have to practice the drills constantly to keep the skills I have developed. My motor (Road King) has a more limited lean angle than the BMW RTP and there are times where I am at full lock and leaned dragging the boards but still need a tighter radius turn. I subscribe to the physics that for any given lean angle speed = radius, so i must slow down when in the max lock and lean condition. Boy is that a pucker factor that now puts more emphasis on the counter weight. Again - great explanation and I hope all who watch this video will use your lesson to avoid years of trial and error. 👌
@@billcarson1966 thanks bill I really appreciate your support my friend. Yes those are the Lee Parks deer tour gloves. I know I sound like a broken record to most of you but those gloves simply rock and I love them.
Thanks for another great video Quinn! I love how you break it down in to a few basic steps, and then put it all together! Top notch Brother! Hopefully I’ll be able to catch up with you in person again in 2025!
@@stevewilson8752 hey thank you Steve. Very generous of you. I appreciate it! Make sure to hit me up if you have any issues or any additional questions on any of this stuff👍
Awesome tutorial and instructions Quinn and “that’s why you’re that guy” 😂😂as you instructed the aha moment will come👏🏽just have to put in the work (training and practice) all you mentioned in this video is very true you can’t be missing any of these elements in the maneuvering of the full lock operations 🙌🏽the hardest was getting the correct speed precisely 🙈
I had no idea you had a channel! I have seen some of the competition videos where you competed. I stumbled into this by accident. The four keys you present here are great tools. The more tools we have to draw upon the better. As well as having greater confidence in your abilities and enjoying the ride more. Many thanks to the 'Owl'!
@@williamforbes5826 haha that’s an old name buddy- I’m guessing we go way back👍 i’m happy to have you check out the videos, hopefully you like them, and definitely feel free to make suggestions on things you think would help out that I could cover in the next ones🙏
@@4b11t9 once you work out the process, you will use far less energy expenditure. Just about any new physical process, I learned, regardless of what it is will cost me significantly in mental and physical energy until I wrap my head around it and am repeatable. It will get much much easier overtime I promise.👍
Besides being a phenomenal motocop and outstanding rider\instructor, Quinn is an incredible human being. If you tried to run from him, he would chase you down, catch you, reason with you, make you a better person, and you would be wealthier from the experience. I'm being honest. There is so much more to this guy than what you see in these videos. We could be so lucky to have every police officer be as balanced and kind as Quinn. And his riding expertise is top notch, he's the real deal. I learned a couple things from this video but I learned a ton about Quinn from a 2 hour conversation I had with him this week in a Zoom meeting. He is an incredibly generous and kind hearted person who, oh yeah, knows a shitload about all things motorcycles.
@@deanhough8993 hey Dean, I really appreciate the compliment and definitely great connecting with you, looking forward to another session here in the near future!👍
Was able to put what you said to practice. Sitting up and not sub consciously fighting the control helped a lot. Able to get a couple full lock in but not consistent. Keeping the throttle steady is HARD. I keep finding myself adjusting speed using the throttle instead of the clutch which explains why I can’t consistently hold full lock.
@@4b11t9 hey that’s fantastic to hear it’s helping you. Keep working on it: One little trick I use to improve the consistency of throttle is to rest my index finger on the front brake lever to work as a “throttle lock “of sorts . It really helps lock down that throttle so you get a steady RPM. Play around with that and see if it helps and let me know.!👍
I enjoy your informative videos. I have a ‘03 BMW K1200GT that I am really struggling with at low speeds. I have ridden numerous other bikes, including a K100 RS, Honda ST1100 and R Nine T. On every other bike, after a little seat time I am comfortable with slow seeds, ‘18 foot or tighter U -turns consistently. Comfortable getting to full lock, U-turns from a stop. But the K1200GT, ‘26 foot is about the best I can do. I can’t figure out what I am missing, I am forward so my arms aren’t locking out, as needed I can position to counter balance, with the dry clutch the friction zone is a little slimmer than some other bikes, but feel comfortable in it, drag the rear brake etc. I am comfortable on my Moto Guzzi and my R Nine T, so I feel like I am doing all the things. I am a daily commuter (K1200GT 2-3 times per week). I do 15 to 20 U-turns each direction or a do figure 8’s everyday when I get to work, I get 30-40 minutes on the weekend with some regularity. But I still struggle. The bike seems very reluctant to tip in at slow speeds (awesome tip in at speed in the canyons) and when it does tip in to lean and the bars turn towards full lock, it drops like a rock instead of the more gradual onset of lean/fall on the other bikes. It drops faster than I can catch it/stand it up with the clutch. I can let the other bikes “fall” in and catch them with the clutch and friction zone as needed. I have heard other people struggle with this model at low speeds. Explanations are long wheel base, trail/rake, the very low center of gravity (I think the flying bricks have even a lower center of gravity than the boxers), the weight, the brakes on that model are also a bit grabby. Reasons? Excuses? Gotta to be something I am missing, I want to improve. If you have any experience with this model in particular or other tips for other more reluctant bikes, I would appreciate it. Thank you.
@@kevindowell6003 Kevin, let’s do this: have somebody film you doing slow figure 8 patterns on that bike for about three minutes, and then text me or email me the video. That will give me a better understanding of what’s going on and how we fix it. quinnredeker@yahoo.com Text 818-261-9814
@@PoliceMotorTraining Thank you for the generous offer. In the next week or so I should be able to have my son come over, or get day without wind to setup a tri-pod. When we get out of snowy season, I plan on signing up for one of the course that are supposed to be framed around moto-officers skills. I will take one of the bikes I feel comfortable on, take what I learn, drill on the other bike, then retake the course on the bike on which I am struggling.
@@watsonf3b in the video I produced, I’m only moving my upper body, and I leave my butt in the seat. Some people feel more comfortable counterbalancing by sliding their butt around, but it’s not really efficient what you want to start changing directions more rapidly. Plus, it’s a little more complicated as far as teaching goes, so I attempt to tell people to just leave their butt in the middle of the seat and start unlocking their range of motion with the upper torso. If you get time, watch my balance Ball 2.0 video and it walks you through the counter balance process pretty good. I will say that if you review any of my competition videos, you will see I’m all over the motorcycle and do not adhere specifically to this instruction. I’m giving you, but that has more to do with the fact that I use my feet and create significant downforce on the foot pegs when I’m transitioning from One Direction to the other, Which creates the illusion that I’m making an effort to slide my butt around on the seat when in fact, the motorcycle is just moving rapidly underneath me.
@@AutechB12 the short answer is “it depends.” You can do a comfortable full lock turn without engaging your legs at all. In other words, if we spent the day working on this objective of full lock, I wouldn’t at any point correct or discuss your feet. I would focus on the key areas in this video. You can simply set them and forget them. IF you want some light rear brake, that’s fine but will not make or break this objective either way. Most motor schools are NO BRAKE and thousands of new motors make it just fine. The KEY challenge is clutch friction zone. Forget about your feet and get really good at the friction zone. I said “depends” because I DO start to engage my feet to speed up my transitions in a tight pattern but that’s a different scenario and objective, and again unnecessary in this case. You should not be experiencing extreme g forces in this situation either. I’m going around 6mph, nice and smooth and flowing. No big forces anywhere. If you are talking “in general” what do you do with feet, unrelated to this full lock conversation, I’d say that we hold on to a motorcycle with our legs, we control with our hands, so squeezing the tank with your legs will help better connect you. Feet themselves may be a component of squeezing but is more of an off road aspect, as we weight outside pegs for traction and get on the balls of our feet for better control when standing. If I’m in the weeds on your question just try and ask it in a different way and I’ll do my best to clarify👍
Where/how should a complete beginner start learning? I have only been on a bike with my husband. I want to ride my own and hubby says he would rather I learn from someone who doesn't have his bad habits from 30 years. I naively thought the MSF beginner course would at least give me a good start. So wrong!! I dropped the bike and fell two times before even turning the key. I couldn't balance. I kicked myself out with bruises from hip to shin. I am not afraid but I would rather not keep making the same mistake ... I dont even know what the error was. Any advice will be appreciated.
@@Rebecca-m3s hey Rebecca, maybe the three of us (you, me, and your hubby) can get on a quick zoom call and you guys can walk me through specifically what you’re looking for, where you are currently, the bike you ride, and your overall expectations and goals and see if I can’t point you in the right direction? Shoot me an email with your contact information/day time that works and I will facilitate a Zoom session to chat. It’s all free so no sweat there: quinnredeker@yahoo.com
@@CaptainFishHead720 from a foundational standpoint, yes. The only significant difference you have with bikes, varying in rake and trail and wheel size and tire profile and ground clearance will be the amount of force you will need to exert at the handlebars. Of course, all those variables will impact the resultant radius The motorcycle will turn, but my process would not change.
Can you do another video like this but on a sportbike? This was really informative, but I find it more awkward/harrowing on a spot bike with clip-ons being so low and angled
@@snowmanii yes a sport bike is definitely different. The primary difference is the lock-to-lock range of motion at the bars. All the same rules and process apply but the results are less impressive unless you swap your bars and shave your stops ( like moto gymkhana riders do). Also-The clutch would benefit from lower gearing (larger rear sprocket) so it’s not working as hard to propel you. But bone stock it’s possible to lean it over full lock, slip the clutch a bit, and make a (relatively) tight u turn. Let me think on this and see about getting a small pack of various bikes and maybe making a video. 👍
@@NiftyMoto if you really want to be comfortable doing this, I suggest maybe taking the time to work backwards and see at what point you lose comfort and confidence in the process. If we focus and pay attention, we should be able to isolate what the issues are for you and then drill on them until you’re comfortable. I would take notes as well, tape a piece of paper on your tank and get out a pen or pencil, and start to articulate where the discomfort is. Think of it more as a laboratory experiment and start working through it. In time, we will figure out what the issue is.
@PoliceMotorTraining that's a really good idea. I got my bike last summer and have been practicing. I think you mention it in your video about going too fast in the lock. That's what end up doing I think. I've slowly built up enough confidence but my heart still races when I lock my handlebars. Great videos and thanks for sharing them. I know it takes a lot of effort to make that stuff.
Does this not depend on the lock of the bike you’re on? I have a CB500 Hornet and I've been practising this, I can only do full lock turns, well almost full lock with the bike ticking over? Do I need to go a bit faster and lean the bike?
I like the content but for me the video is too distorted to be helpful as unlike most people I am a visual/kinetic learner. I did subscribe just because I enjoy learning about different techniques and experiences. Thank you for posting !!
Rear brake helps calm the chassis down a bit during a turn, not so much help keep you upright. It can be useful, but its not a formal component required to execute full lock. For this reason I left it out, as it tends to confuse the lesson. I would say that job #1 is good friction zone without brakes, THEN if you feel the need to have it on, go for it. But by then you won't need it. All that said, you aren't wrong to use it, just not a formal key ingredient.
My problem is the feedback loop: What will happen if I reach full lock? Won't the bike hit the ground right away? So I always fight with the other arm to prevent reaching full lock because I think that if I won't the next thing is me picking up the bike from the ground.
Keep in mind that "full lock" is not a result of extreme lean angles, but only a small little "nudge" from straight up and down. In other words, concentrate more on friction zone, counterbalance, and THEN a mild, slow lean angle. The bars will fall into full lock with no effort whatsoever! And you will have a stable counterbalanced platform generating power and balance to keep you feeling solid. Take it slow, relax, breathe, and remember the road goes on forever, don't rush into it, there is no expiration date on learning!
Another great vid, thank you! I can’t wait for the ice to melt so I can start drilling on my GS. Just about every ride includes a few minutes in an empty parking lot. If you ever come to MA I would love a private lesson. I could pay you in pizza pockets and a delicious ginger ale.
@@MXD29 i’m coming out to the Laconia bike week in June. Not sure how far that is from you? I will be doing some clinics out there during the competition. Let me know.
@@PoliceMotorTraining it’s 90 minutes from our house but we also have a place about 20 minutes away right on the lake so it’s super close either way. What are the odds you’ll be able to stick around a bit after? I’d love to show you some of these back country roads. Maybe we could ride some of the NEBDR or just sit on the boat and do nothing. All sound like great options haha.
Thanks for another great video! Off topic question: how would you compare the Concours14 over the ST1300? On paper I know that the Connie is a better overall bike, but I'm intereseted in your opinion, esp in regards to suspension, manouverability and the brakes. I know that the RT is a better bike than those 2 but it is a bit out of my price range, and frankly I'm a bit concerned about the cost of maintanance if anything major goes wrong. Cheers!
@@devianthousend well I have owned both bikes and competed on both bikes and they are quite different. The Honda has a soft spot in my heart. It is quick and agile for its weight and the suspension is pretty planted for tight maneuvers. I think it’s a very forgiving chassis. I’ve done some Track clinic work on it with my knee down and it’s still not bad ha ha. The brakes are strong, but I’m not a fan of the linked system, still I get used to it, but I don’t love it. Kawasaki is quite a bit bigger and taller and heavier, much more of a brute and tight situations. Let’s just put it this way: I took overall first place at various events on both platforms, but I’m pretty sure the Kawasaki took years off of my life expectancy given how much more work it was in tight environments! But the faster you go, the more the Kawasaki is superior. It’s just more modern, and definitely a hell of a lot more powerful. I would not hesitate to circumnavigate the globe on the Honda any day though.
@PoliceMotorTraining Dang, well maybe I should look at a Goldwing then and get the best of both worlds, the power and the globe circumnavigating in comfort. Minus the tight cornering, those things won't win you any competitions I suppose..
@@devianthousend If I could have one bike it would be a Goldwing. I LOVE them. Power, comfort, agile as H*ll for a bike hundreds of pounds less...No I won't win a competition on one but who cares
@@PoliceMotorTraining just to be clear are you talking about the previous generation (pre-2018) Goldwing? I test rode the newest one and its just too small for me (I'm 6.5). Smooth as butter yeah but a bit cramped and I hate that they took out so much storage space just to appeal to todays standards of ever shrinking motorcycles. Now the previous model, thats a proper Golwing, I'll take that any day of the week thank you very much.
Just curious, how often did you drop the bike back in the day learning this? I still find myself dropping the bike at least once in a 30min practice session.
@@4b11t9 I have dropped my motorcycle plenty of times, but it’s usually due to extreme pushing within a competition pattern and I’m trying to figure out how hard I can drive the tires with whatever traction coefficient I have at a given location. Specifically learning this technique, did not see me dropping the bike that I can recall, but I think that had more to do with the fact that I had the friction zone and the counter balance technique sorted out already. The friction zone training is generally where most people struggle when they lean the bike over and don’t have that figured out yet so work on that first and the rest will get much easier
Ahh, yes, now I know the secret... burn incense! just kidding. Thank you for your excellent instructions... now, I am off to the parking lot to practice, practice, practice. Much appreciated.
@@billboring3925 well Bill- I have to say I don’t believe in the word “wrong.” In training. Inputs and outputs. We do something and a result shows itself. So when we look at the front brake, maybe the single most powerful control on a motorcycle- I am of the mind to ask “in how many ways can I explore and interact with it to get new and powerful benefits?” To just discount it as wrong in a given situation Is to ignore the question of what is possible. Remember, the brake is not simply on or off, but has infinite modulation abilities like the throttle. If we start slow, pay attention, and recognize the feedback we get, the brakes gain massive applications that, at first glance, we might discount as bad, wrong, or to be avoided altogether. I appreciate your feedback and thank you for generating the discussion👍
Quinn, you are right in drumming home this takes time. It took me 10 hours of this for it to start to come together, but now at close to 70 hours I’m almost completely natural at this. Thanks for all the videos on this. A lot of the beginner channels out there leave out a lot of the nuance and more advanced techniques which you kindly provide.
@@NakaNakaDerkaDerka nice job, you put in the work!💪
As always, the pacing of the teaching and the explanations are fantastic! Thank you again!
🙋♂
Thanks for the support!
Out of those four tips, the number 1 thing that helped me was counterbalancing. When I finally got my ass off the seat and REALLY counter balanced it took away ALL my fear of falling/dropping the bike. Thanks, Quinn! You the man!!
@@mattdesjardins3776 that’s great Matt- yes it’s a huge help. Just remember the bulk of the work is upper body/torso for meaningful counterbalance more than just the butt, so work on that- you should feel pulling on your sides, stretching. Still, great to hear👍
Quinn, I really appreciate your walk though and explanation on these concepts. Listening to these lessons literally got me through motor school successfully last October.
@@chrismatkin7354 Chris- 1st of all congratulations on getting through motor school! That in itself is a huge achievement, I’m very happy for you👍 and hearing that this helped you directly is pretty much the whole reason I do it. So thanks for taking a minute to reach out, I really do appreciate it. And along the way please feel free to connect with any questions or issues and consider me a resource if I can help in anyway.
Excellent explanation of counter balancing... thx!
Thanks coach! Just what I have been working on lately. I thought I had to go faster but could only get to full lock at slow speed. Thought I was doing it wrong but now I have the confidence to keep working 👍🏼
Great! Keep me posted and let me know if anything isn't making sense, we can work through it.
Thanks for another gem of a video!
I can't wait to give these a go when the snow in the UK melts. I am considered an advanced rider having done an advanced rider course and passed with a top grade, but they never checked slow speed riding. One thing I have always struggled with is tight u-turns. Just watching this video I had an AHA moment. To lean forward. Got a feeling I'm going to be binging on your videos once I finish work tomorrow morning
@@markgr1nyer i’m definitely pumped to see how this works out for you, make sure to take your time and work the drills and then give me a full report, sir👍😊
@@PoliceMotorTraining Just an update. I did a full lock U Turn on my RT for the first time this evening. Bike was still upright (well it didn't feel like it was dropping too much) but just by leaning forward it gave me so much better control over the throttle and clutch I was amazed by how easy it was and how stable the bike felt. I wasn't even trying to be honest I just needed to turn the bike tight and all of a sudden the bars stopped. When I parked the bike up I had a huge smile on my face
@ damn it Mark! That’s fantastic, brother! Great, great job, very cool to hear that it helped you out. It only gets easier from there.👍
@@PoliceMotorTraining I can't wait. A lot of work to do but feel much closer after yesterday. One of those rides where it clicks
Winter here.. cant wait til spring, you’re the best ❤
Great lesson, Quinn! It took me 3 years to get an understanding how these 4 techniques work and I have to practice the drills constantly to keep the skills I have developed. My motor (Road King) has a more limited lean angle than the BMW RTP and there are times where I am at full lock and leaned dragging the boards but still need a tighter radius turn. I subscribe to the physics that for any given lean angle speed = radius, so i must slow down when in the max lock and lean condition. Boy is that a pucker factor that now puts more emphasis on the counter weight. Again - great explanation and I hope all who watch this video will use your lesson to avoid years of trial and error. 👌
@@Old-n-slo-locked-n-leaned hey brother thanks for the support, I appreciate it!👍
You never deliver a bad video! Amazing content as always! What gloves are you wearing, the Lee Parks you mentioned a long time ago?
@@billcarson1966 thanks bill I really appreciate your support my friend. Yes those are the Lee Parks deer tour gloves. I know I sound like a broken record to most of you but those gloves simply rock and I love them.
Thanks for another great video Quinn! I love how you break it down in to a few basic steps, and then put it all together! Top notch Brother! Hopefully I’ll be able to catch up with you in person again in 2025!
@@717ThrottleTherapy hey I appreciate the support and definitely would love to catch up with you this coming year!
Hi Quinn, thanks for this video. Let’s go practice!
High from Australia 🇦🇺😊 Easy to understand teachings mate 👍😄 Love Your Work 🏍 👮♂️ Cheers from down under in Aus 🇦🇺🍹🏍
@@stevewilson8752 hey thank you Steve. Very generous of you. I appreciate it! Make sure to hit me up if you have any issues or any additional questions on any of this stuff👍
Awesome tutorial and instructions Quinn and “that’s why you’re that guy” 😂😂as you instructed the aha moment will come👏🏽just have to put in the work (training and practice) all you mentioned in this video is very true you can’t be missing any of these elements in the maneuvering of the full lock operations 🙌🏽the hardest was getting the correct speed precisely 🙈
@@BluAlualu hey thanks and glad to hear this made sense for you👍
I had no idea you had a channel! I have seen some of the competition videos where you competed. I stumbled into this by accident. The four keys you present here are great tools. The more tools we have to draw upon the better. As well as having greater confidence in your abilities and enjoying the ride more. Many thanks to the 'Owl'!
@@williamforbes5826 haha that’s an old name buddy- I’m guessing we go way back👍 i’m happy to have you check out the videos, hopefully you like them, and definitely feel free to make suggestions on things you think would help out that I could cover in the next ones🙏
Thank you so much, happy newyear 🎉
Thank you!!! I needed this. I’m so uptight doing these drills, hands and arms are sore after just 5mins. Full on soaked with sweat 10mins in.
@@4b11t9 once you work out the process, you will use far less energy expenditure. Just about any new physical process, I learned, regardless of what it is will cost me significantly in mental and physical energy until I wrap my head around it and am repeatable. It will get much much easier overtime I promise.👍
Besides being a phenomenal motocop and outstanding rider\instructor, Quinn is an incredible human being. If you tried to run from him, he would chase you down, catch you, reason with you, make you a better person, and you would be wealthier from the experience. I'm being honest. There is so much more to this guy than what you see in these videos. We could be so lucky to have every police officer be as balanced and kind as Quinn. And his riding expertise is top notch, he's the real deal. I learned a couple things from this video but I learned a ton about Quinn from a 2 hour conversation I had with him this week in a Zoom meeting. He is an incredibly generous and kind hearted person who, oh yeah, knows a shitload about all things motorcycles.
@@deanhough8993 hey Dean, I really appreciate the compliment and definitely great connecting with you, looking forward to another session here in the near future!👍
Finally I realized, I need to burn more incense. It did it. 😂. Great video, Sir. Thank you for all the advice.
This was awesome! Thank you!!!
Was able to put what you said to practice. Sitting up and not sub consciously fighting the control helped a lot. Able to get a couple full lock in but not consistent. Keeping the throttle steady is HARD. I keep finding myself adjusting speed using the throttle instead of the clutch which explains why I can’t consistently hold full lock.
@@4b11t9 hey that’s fantastic to hear it’s helping you. Keep working on it:
One little trick I use to improve the consistency of throttle is to rest my index finger on the front brake lever to work as a “throttle lock “of sorts . It really helps lock down that throttle so you get a steady RPM. Play around with that and see if it helps and let me know.!👍
verry verry good explication . thanks grts from belgium
Love the hair cut!!!! ❤❤❤❤
Outstanding!
I enjoy your informative videos. I have a ‘03 BMW K1200GT that I am really struggling with at low speeds. I have ridden numerous other bikes, including a K100 RS, Honda ST1100 and R Nine T. On every other bike, after a little seat time I am comfortable with slow seeds, ‘18 foot or tighter U -turns consistently. Comfortable getting to full lock, U-turns from a stop. But the K1200GT, ‘26 foot is about the best I can do. I can’t figure out what I am missing, I am forward so my arms aren’t locking out, as needed I can position to counter balance, with the dry clutch the friction zone is a little slimmer than some other bikes, but feel comfortable in it, drag the rear brake etc. I am comfortable on my Moto Guzzi and my R Nine T, so I feel like I am doing all the things. I am a daily commuter (K1200GT 2-3 times per week). I do 15 to 20 U-turns each direction or a do figure 8’s everyday when I get to work, I get 30-40 minutes on the weekend with some regularity. But I still struggle. The bike seems very reluctant to tip in at slow speeds (awesome tip in at speed in the canyons) and when it does tip in to lean and the bars turn towards full lock, it drops like a rock instead of the more gradual onset of lean/fall on the other bikes. It drops faster than I can catch it/stand it up with the clutch. I can let the other bikes “fall” in and catch them with the clutch and friction zone as needed. I have heard other people struggle with this model at low speeds. Explanations are long wheel base, trail/rake, the very low center of gravity (I think the flying bricks have even a lower center of gravity than the boxers), the weight, the brakes on that model are also a bit grabby. Reasons? Excuses? Gotta to be something I am missing, I want to improve. If you have any experience with this model in particular or other tips for other more reluctant bikes, I would appreciate it. Thank you.
@@kevindowell6003 Kevin, let’s do this: have somebody film you doing slow figure 8 patterns on that bike for about three minutes, and then text me or email me the video. That will give me a better understanding of what’s going on and how we fix it.
quinnredeker@yahoo.com
Text 818-261-9814
@@PoliceMotorTraining Thank you for the generous offer. In the next week or so I should be able to have my son come over, or get day without wind to setup a tri-pod. When we get out of snowy season, I plan on signing up for one of the course that are supposed to be framed around moto-officers skills. I will take one of the bikes I feel comfortable on, take what I learn, drill on the other bike, then retake the course on the bike on which I am struggling.
thank you
Thanks.
When counterbalancing in this case, it appears you shift your body alignment, but not position in the seat, correct?
@@watsonf3b in the video I produced, I’m only moving my upper body, and I leave my butt in the seat. Some people feel more comfortable counterbalancing by sliding their butt around, but it’s not really efficient what you want to start changing directions more rapidly. Plus, it’s a little more complicated as far as teaching goes, so I attempt to tell people to just leave their butt in the middle of the seat and start unlocking their range of motion with the upper torso. If you get time, watch my balance Ball 2.0 video and it walks you through the counter balance process pretty good.
I will say that if you review any of my competition videos, you will see I’m all over the motorcycle and do not adhere specifically to this instruction. I’m giving you, but that has more to do with the fact that I use my feet and create significant downforce on the foot pegs when I’m transitioning from One Direction to the other, Which creates the illusion that I’m making an effort to slide my butt around on the seat when in fact, the motorcycle is just moving rapidly underneath me.
Question do you press your heels against the frame of the bike for more extreme g forces? What should we actually do with our feet
@@AutechB12 the short answer is “it depends.” You can do a comfortable full lock turn without engaging your legs at all. In other words, if we spent the day working on this objective of full lock, I wouldn’t at any point correct or discuss your feet. I would focus on the key areas in this video. You can simply set them and forget them.
IF you want some light rear brake, that’s fine but will not make or break this objective either way. Most motor schools are NO BRAKE and thousands of new motors make it just fine. The KEY challenge is clutch friction zone. Forget about your feet and get really good at the friction zone.
I said “depends” because I DO start to engage my feet to speed up my transitions in a tight pattern but that’s a different scenario and objective, and again unnecessary in this case.
You should not be experiencing extreme g forces in this situation either. I’m going around 6mph, nice and smooth and flowing. No big forces anywhere. If you are talking “in general” what do you do with feet, unrelated to this full lock conversation, I’d say that we hold on to a motorcycle with our legs, we control with our hands, so squeezing the tank with your legs will help better connect you. Feet themselves may be a component of squeezing but is more of an off road aspect, as we weight outside pegs for traction and get on the balls of our feet for better control when standing.
If I’m in the weeds on your question just try and ask it in a different way and I’ll do my best to clarify👍
@ I think you nailed it. Thanks for the insight and gems 💎
Where/how should a complete beginner start learning? I have only been on a bike with my husband. I want to ride my own and hubby says he would rather I learn from someone who doesn't have his bad habits from 30 years. I naively thought the MSF beginner course would at least give me a good start. So wrong!! I dropped the bike and fell two times before even turning the key. I couldn't balance. I kicked myself out with bruises from hip to shin. I am not afraid but I would rather not keep making the same mistake ... I dont even know what the error was. Any advice will be appreciated.
@@Rebecca-m3s hey Rebecca, maybe the three of us (you, me, and your hubby) can get on a quick zoom call and you guys can walk me through specifically what you’re looking for, where you are currently, the bike you ride, and your overall expectations and goals and see if I can’t point you in the right direction?
Shoot me an email with your contact information/day time that works and I will facilitate a Zoom session to chat. It’s all free so no sweat there: quinnredeker@yahoo.com
Do the same concepts apply for motorcycles with more of a rake like the HD Rocker C or Honda Fury?
@@CaptainFishHead720 from a foundational standpoint, yes. The only significant difference you have with bikes, varying in rake and trail and wheel size and tire profile and ground clearance will be the amount of force you will need to exert at the handlebars. Of course, all those variables will impact the resultant radius The motorcycle will turn, but my process would not change.
@@PoliceMotorTraining Thank you.
Can you do another video like this but on a sportbike? This was really informative, but I find it more awkward/harrowing on a spot bike with clip-ons being so low and angled
@@snowmanii yes a sport bike is definitely different. The primary difference is the lock-to-lock range of motion at the bars. All the same rules and process apply but the results are less impressive unless you swap your bars and shave your stops ( like moto gymkhana riders do). Also-The clutch would benefit from lower gearing (larger rear sprocket) so it’s not working as hard to propel you.
But bone stock it’s possible to lean it over full lock, slip the clutch a bit, and make a (relatively) tight u turn.
Let me think on this and see about getting a small pack of various bikes and maybe making a video. 👍
"Get your mind right, burn some incense..." 😂 Thanks for the video, locking my handle bars is still one of the most terrifying things I do.
@@NiftyMoto if you really want to be comfortable doing this, I suggest maybe taking the time to work backwards and see at what point you lose comfort and confidence in the process. If we focus and pay attention, we should be able to isolate what the issues are for you and then drill on them until you’re comfortable. I would take notes as well, tape a piece of paper on your tank and get out a pen or pencil, and start to articulate where the discomfort is. Think of it more as a laboratory experiment and start working through it. In time, we will figure out what the issue is.
@PoliceMotorTraining that's a really good idea. I got my bike last summer and have been practicing. I think you mention it in your video about going too fast in the lock. That's what end up doing I think. I've slowly built up enough confidence but my heart still races when I lock my handlebars.
Great videos and thanks for sharing them. I know it takes a lot of effort to make that stuff.
Does this not depend on the lock of the bike you’re on? I have a CB500 Hornet and I've been practising this, I can only do full lock turns, well almost full lock with the bike ticking over? Do I need to go a bit faster and lean the bike?
I like the content but for me the video is too distorted to be helpful as unlike most people I am a visual/kinetic learner. I did subscribe just because I enjoy learning about different techniques and experiences. Thank you for posting !!
Does light pressure on the rear brake also help keep the bike upright during a tight turn?
Rear brake helps calm the chassis down a bit during a turn, not so much help keep you upright. It can be useful, but its not a formal component required to execute full lock. For this reason I left it out, as it tends to confuse the lesson. I would say that job #1 is good friction zone without brakes, THEN if you feel the need to have it on, go for it. But by then you won't need it. All that said, you aren't wrong to use it, just not a formal key ingredient.
Makes sense. Thank you.
My problem is the feedback loop: What will happen if I reach full lock? Won't the bike hit the ground right away? So I always fight with the other arm to prevent reaching full lock because I think that if I won't the next thing is me picking up the bike from the ground.
Keep in mind that "full lock" is not a result of extreme lean angles, but only a small little "nudge" from straight up and down. In other words, concentrate more on friction zone, counterbalance, and THEN a mild, slow lean angle. The bars will fall into full lock with no effort whatsoever! And you will have a stable counterbalanced platform generating power and balance to keep you feeling solid.
Take it slow, relax, breathe, and remember the road goes on forever, don't rush into it, there is no expiration date on learning!
@PoliceMotorTraining thank You for your reply. Cheers from Poland.
Another great vid, thank you! I can’t wait for the ice to melt so I can start drilling on my GS. Just about every ride includes a few minutes in an empty parking lot.
If you ever come to MA I would love a private lesson. I could pay you in pizza pockets and a delicious ginger ale.
@@MXD29 i’m coming out to the Laconia bike week in June. Not sure how far that is from you? I will be doing some clinics out there during the competition. Let me know.
@@PoliceMotorTraining it’s 90 minutes from our house but we also have a place about 20 minutes away right on the lake so it’s super close either way. What are the odds you’ll be able to stick around a bit after? I’d love to show you some of these back country roads. Maybe we could ride some of the NEBDR or just sit on the boat and do nothing. All sound like great options haha.
Thanks for another great video! Off topic question: how would you compare the Concours14 over the ST1300? On paper I know that the Connie is a better overall bike, but I'm intereseted in your opinion, esp in regards to suspension, manouverability and the brakes. I know that the RT is a better bike than those 2 but it is a bit out of my price range, and frankly I'm a bit concerned about the cost of maintanance if anything major goes wrong. Cheers!
@@devianthousend well I have owned both bikes and competed on both bikes and they are quite different. The Honda has a soft spot in my heart. It is quick and agile for its weight and the suspension is pretty planted for tight maneuvers. I think it’s a very forgiving chassis. I’ve done some Track clinic work on it with my knee down and it’s still not bad ha ha. The brakes are strong, but I’m not a fan of the linked system, still I get used to it, but I don’t love it. Kawasaki is quite a bit bigger and taller and heavier, much more of a brute and tight situations. Let’s just put it this way: I took overall first place at various events on both platforms, but I’m pretty sure the Kawasaki took years off of my life expectancy given how much more work it was in tight environments! But the faster you go, the more the Kawasaki is superior. It’s just more modern, and definitely a hell of a lot more powerful. I would not hesitate to circumnavigate the globe on the Honda any day though.
@PoliceMotorTraining Dang, well maybe I should look at a Goldwing then and get the best of both worlds, the power and the globe circumnavigating in comfort. Minus the tight cornering, those things won't win you any competitions I suppose..
@@devianthousend If I could have one bike it would be a Goldwing. I LOVE them. Power, comfort, agile as H*ll for a bike hundreds of pounds less...No I won't win a competition on one but who cares
@@PoliceMotorTraining just to be clear are you talking about the previous generation (pre-2018) Goldwing? I test rode the newest one and its just too small for me (I'm 6.5). Smooth as butter yeah but a bit cramped and I hate that they took out so much storage space just to appeal to todays standards of ever shrinking motorcycles. Now the previous model, thats a proper Golwing, I'll take that any day of the week thank you very much.
Just curious, how often did you drop the bike back in the day learning this? I still find myself dropping the bike at least once in a 30min practice session.
@@4b11t9 I have dropped my motorcycle plenty of times, but it’s usually due to extreme pushing within a competition pattern and I’m trying to figure out how hard I can drive the tires with whatever traction coefficient I have at a given location. Specifically learning this technique, did not see me dropping the bike that I can recall, but I think that had more to do with the fact that I had the friction zone and the counter balance technique sorted out already. The friction zone training is generally where most people struggle when they lean the bike over and don’t have that figured out yet so work on that first and the rest will get much easier
Ahh, yes, now I know the secret... burn incense! just kidding. Thank you for your excellent instructions... now, I am off to the parking lot to practice, practice, practice. Much appreciated.
@@mortondavisproductions7578 haha yes! And the biggest secret- enjoy the process👍
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a can do counter balancing. but i dont try leaning, im afraid....LOL
@@EvendimataE trust me- I totally get it! But like all things, time and focus and effort will win the day! Keep at it!
And the other mistake people make as they touch the front brake wrong big mistake. You wanna fall right away do that
@@billboring3925 well Bill- I have to say I don’t believe in the word “wrong.” In training. Inputs and outputs. We do something and a result shows itself. So when we look at the front brake, maybe the single most powerful control on a motorcycle- I am of the mind to ask “in how many ways can I explore and interact with it to get new and powerful benefits?” To just discount it as wrong in a given situation Is to ignore the question of what is possible. Remember, the brake is not simply on or off, but has infinite modulation abilities like the throttle. If we start slow, pay attention, and recognize the feedback we get, the brakes gain massive applications that, at first glance, we might discount as bad, wrong, or to be avoided altogether.
I appreciate your feedback and thank you for generating the discussion👍