Cardo is FANTASTIC. I rode in the rain for 3hrs, Capetown to Bloemfontein in rain and my mic stopped working. I could hear the other doode, He couldn't hear me. Anyhow, Cardo replaced my mic FOC. Ps- his kept working right through the rain, mine stopped coz I was using an open faced helmet for the trip.
Well done LWH, I love it when someone has the balls to actually give a detailed review and conclusion without saying "oh, they both win". Keep up the good work!
I picked up the Cardo Freecom 4+ last year. I love how well the voice commands work, the clarity of the JBL speakers and how the volume will increase to accommodate for outside noise. I started looking into the Cardo unit after Fort9's review.
I got the same unit and it's great, however the voice commands don't work for me. I've taken it back out to see if the wires were ok and it worked then but back on the bike it didn't. I'm still loving it regardless
@@LongWayHome i love watching your videos but.. The Sena 30k is able to do all the things the Cardo can do.. You've to update the software on your device and it works without any wind noises or bad sound quality.. I know, Sena is always releasing their products to early but the first software update is always fixing all the problems. I am very disappointed with you.. First you are using one source to build your own opinion and second you're spreading this opinion to others who trust your judgment.. That's something I am very sad to see.. th-cam.com/video/q0vDO-66S1M/w-d-xo.html Maybe this video will help you to understand my thoughts. Keep up the good work and keep up testing yourself so your expert judgment has not to rely on others. Best regards!
This video is spot on. Let me share my experience with the Sena 20S and the Cardo PackTalk Bold. I ride with a group of 9 friends. At first we had a mish mosh of Sena products. Most of us had the 20S and a few had lesser models but they all talked to each other - Sometimes... Sena's were fine one on one but add a couple more riders and connections dropped every few seconds. We were never able to actually get all nine of us in one group. Usually we'd split into two groups but even then riders would drop. In some cases riders from one group would jump into the other group for no reason. Every time we got together we'd have to erase previous groups and start the pairing process over again. Sometimes we'd have to pair the groups twice a day if we turned the units off during lunch. The Sena experience was very frustrating. I feel the company beta tests with their customers and brings a half baked product to market. Sound quality on the Sena's was poor. Theres a constant crackling in the background and the noise gets worse with every rider that's added to a group. Now, after a few seasons with the Sena's we all decided to bite the bullet and purchase Cardo Packtalk Bold units. The difference is night and day. Pair the Cardo with your phone and everything is voice controlled. Voice commands actually work!!! Want to check messages, send a text, make a call, play music, raise or lower volume, it's all voice controlled. I believe we bought the Cardo's in 2018 and once we were all paired together in a single group of nine we've never had to pair again. If a few of us go for a ride it's no issue we pair up as soon as we're in range of one another. While riding, if one group falls out of range with another the riders that are together stay connected. Once we get back together we're all connected again. It just works seamlessly. Sound quality is much improved too. Even without the JBL upgrade the Cardo's have very little background noise. The noise cancelling software works great! No pops or crackling. The mic's are gated (Closed) until a someone speaks. Wind noise, buffeting, or general ambient noise does not trigger the gate and open the mics. The Cardo's are a pleasure! Every feature works as advertised. In other words, Sena = BAD - Cardo = AWESOME.
Well Ralph, that's music to my ears (there's a joke there somewhere). I bought a BMW Fit For All Intercom last June. It's made by Sena. My wife and I went to the continent. Very poor performance from the intercom - so... took the units back and had a refund. I was then recommended to go for the Sena 20s evo by a friend who raved about how good they were. They WERE better than the BMW units but had hoped for a bigger improvement. Rode back from Malaga in March this year with a friend. He had Packtalk Bold and we struggled to pair the two units and gave up in the end. So... I've just sold the Sena units on Ebay and intened to buy Packtalk Bold Duo. I hope it's as "night and day" as you say. Is there likely to be a new version coming out soon that might be worth waiting for?
@@axelsetiawan9512 OK, Thanks for that. I bought the Packtalk Bold in the end and very impressed with it. Your review was spot on, so thanks for pointing me in the right direction. Cheers, Phil.
My Wife and I have the PackTalk Bold and they are brilliant. Set them up once and they just work faultlessly. No wind noise or anything. Would highly recommend them them.
Cardoza Slim here. Love it! Noise cancellation is awesome. At 75 mph if my office calls they know I'm riding as there is NO background noise, like my car hands free.
Done a two week European tour for the last 4 years with the packtalks and they have not let us down once! You are spot on with the battery warning too, at least 2 hours before it dies and you can also charge with a power bank whilst still using them. A fantastic bit of kit and the music quality is awesome with the optional JBL upgrade speakers. Cardo is hands down the best! Expensive but worth every penny!
We use the Sena and you are right about the range and power warning. I find noise cancellation adequate and have ridden in the rain with my Senas for years w/o problem. One problem I had was with the equipment's teeny eenny weenny wire it uses near the mic. If you're not careful, they can break. They're so small that you would possibly need to take it to a jeweler to get it fixed. Good vid, thx!
Last thing you want to be doing when you should be enjoying a long awaited ride out...is fiddling around trying to get them paired up...not so with Cardo...in my experience. Paired up once with my son on bmws...fired up every time after no hassle. Like the Cardo.Chris in Ireland.
@@fortunebayson1180 I can't answer for them, but in my case I loved the idea of a lower profile unit because I didnt want the extra wind noise from the drag created by a big blocky unit on the side of the helmet, and I like that the helmet stays more balanced at higher speeds for this same reason
@@fortunebayson1180 just got my slim JBL for $240, absolute steal. Never been more impressed with audio recognition before this unit. If you’re on the fence, get it!
I’ve been using Sena for 5 years. The 20S and the 30K. My girlfriend had a Cardo when I met her so I figured I’d buy the pack talk bold to be able to talk to her. All I can say is WOW! What have I been missing out on! The Cardo literally does everything better than my Sena 30k! Don’t even get me started on the audio quality. The Cardo speakers sound ten times better than the Sena speakers. Needless to say I pulled my 2 Sena 20s and one 30k of my helmets and immediately sold them to buy another Cardo pack talk bold. If you’re in the market for a communicator, don’t even look at the Sena. It’s a waste of money!
I agree with you. I ride in groups and have used Sena 20s for 3 years. The first thing we did was go to Starbucks to sit around drinking coffee trying to get the multiple units to pair. We usually were not successful in getting all of them to pair and would usually give up out of frustration. I switched to the Cardo PackTalk bold and now we meet up and have all the helmets paired before any of us finish our coffee. We ride static free and the units link up with no issues. The Cardo's voice command actually work and the JBL speakers are louder and more clear than my old Sena speakers. Cardo is the hassle free way to go if you want the best experience with your group.
I used the Sena 20s for about a year and then changed to the Cardo packtalk bold. Wow, what a difference. The Cardo is superior in every way. I'm never going back to Sena.
My daily commute is around 200 miles (Midlands into London and back), which i make rain or shine / summer or winter - HAVE to have intercom / music for journey. Had a 20S originally and, as covered in vid, it failed very soon after as it was NOT waterproof, contacted Sena and can confirm their customer service is even worse than their software implementation highlighted in your vid. Changed to Packtalk Bold (with JBL speakers which are better than Sena's but only average compared to any mid market headphones) and it has been great, very reliable and would echo your recommendation. Completely off topic, but been riding for about 25 years, a couple of years ago, during an exceptionally cold evening journey home, stopped for fuel and (as you do) got chatting to another rider who also was fool enough to be out in February. He had a heated jacket and appeared much more content than me, riding off I started to wonder why I had never invested in one?? . . . so went and bought a Gerbing heated jacket, which plugs into my trickle charger outlet on the bike,(need to buy adapter separately) and NEVER LOOKED BACK!! It is brilliant, can thoroughly recommend.
Was just about to buy a Sena , but after watching this I wont! The outside noise cancellation sells it for me. Thanks for a nice honest review! Must admit that I am rather puzzled that Sena have not even bothered to look into some of these issues. (maybe they dont need the money) Cheers and have a great day!
Hi, nice review firstly, you've addressed real issues that bikers face. However i disagree with two things. 1. Battery warning - I have 3 Sena's including the 10C and my battery lasts for about an hour before th set dies down. You MAY have had that issue specifically with the unit you have, not sure. 2. I've ised Sena in heavy rains, literal downpours and not had any issues. Ofcourse, they are NOT meant to be submerged, so that test may not be the best way to check for Water resisting capabilities. That said, Cardo does make them waterproof, so in the event you leave your helmet in a tub or land up in a lake, the unit will still function! Other things i totally agree with, Sena have a massive opportunity to improve their software support and consistency!
IP67 is a submersion test at a certain depth and time. You cannot rate your device as IP67 if it cannot pass the standard. IP66 is a higher rating then IP67 as it is tested with water pressure and can penetrate seals versus dunking.
I've had the Sena 20S for 2 years now. I have 3 comm's for family members and several bases for different helmets. The system works OK (most of the time). Pairing can be difficult and we are careful to keep the comm's on even when we stop for fuel/potty breaks. Even with the most recent software update (completed just last week), the sound quality is only average. The range is definitely only "line of site." Listening to music and chatting over the intercom realistically will drain the battery in 6 to 8 hours. I keep a portable charger with me for the longer rides. Wind noise is an issue. A friend of mine still cannot get all of the 20S features to work with his 2018 Goldwing (music, GPS, phone and intercom working all at the same time) and we struggle to get paired for each of our shared rides. If I wasn't so heavily invested in the Sena system, I would switch.
30K user here for 2 years running... everything you note is 100% on point. I cannot recommend the Sena over the Packtalk; I bought it because my riding buddies use Sena. Meh.
Scott Peterson so Sena doesn’t connect with cardo and vice versa? Everyone I ride with have sena but I want cardo. Can I still get cardo and connect with them?
@@jjoc5587 I was able to connect to a non Cardo comm system via Bluetooth to my Packtalk and then switch over to DMC mode and add them to the group. I don't know if they have since removed this feature with the latest firmware but it did allow for DMC users to add in a non DMC user (or non Cardo for that matter) to the group. I think it's called DMC bridging. I used it a few times in the past and it worked fairly well. The only drawback is that they are tied to you, so if you leave the DMC group but they don't, they would lose their link to the DMC group and would have to pair up the same way they did with you with a different DMC user.
I have a Sena 20s for three years and the unit worked very well. The problem started when the battery simply die out because it was too old. I contacted Sena to buy a replacement new battery and they turned me away. They claimed they didn’t sell batteries for their units. I found a replacement battery online, installed correctly, and the unit worked but with a very limited battery charge. I have to recharge the battery everyday, and without using the unit so much. May be three or phone short calls a day, and the battery was dead. I purchased another battery, but a different brand, the same thing happened. Battery didn’t last more than four calls. I got tired of Sena and I purchased a Cardo Pack Talk. So far it is great.
I just bought the PackTalk Bold JBL. Used the voice controls to make a phone call (OK Google Call...). My buddy couldn't believe I was doing 90 km/h on a motorcycle! He said it sounded like I was driving in a car (so not perfect, but no wind or loud background noise). And the voice controls are crazy good!
Good review, I can vouch first hand for every remark shared on the SENA 30k, I purchased the dual set and felt let down as a trusting customer. SENA should just focus on getting the basic functions working right and working all the time instead of a constant hit or miss lottery game every time you switch the devices on.
Have been using a Sena 20S 01 for more than 5 years now and have mentioned my observation. 1) In Line of sight get a range of 1 kms 2) Have used it in heavy to very heavy rains and once or twice in the past 5 years had to pull over and wipe the contact points and the unit was back to normal. 3) Setting up the unit with fellow riders and your own phone was very simple 4) Ambient mode works just fine, two clicks to the command button and the mode is on/off 5) The universal pairing mode which can pair with any other bluetooth headset including your normal phone headsets is nice useful and saves money to buy another unit for your casual pillion rider 6) The last minute battery warning gets painful but then again I plug my powerbank and the unit become full functional while it's getting charged as well. 7) I appreciate the fact that they have kept the cradle common for a lot of models which gives user an option to opt for just the unit.
Wow, this was a great review, I’m so glad I was curious!! I’ve owned Sena 20 for about 5yrs and recently the Sena SRL. I’ve been a great fan of Sena, but I see here that it’s time for an Upgrade!! You are are spot on Sir, thank you so much!!
We also found a lot of trouble with the 30K in the past. Since the last Software Update things became better. We changed the units already 2 times 😔. One System also broke down on the third day of a 18.000 km trip across Europe, just because of rain I guess. The Sena gave us so much trouble, has startet multiple fights in the group, just because of bad communicaten quality and dysfunctionality. We definitely don’t recommend to go for a Sena 🤷♂️
Thanks for the review. I've been using the Cardo products since their first unit. After about 4 or 5 years went to the Q3, and then last summer the PT Bold. They just work and their customer service is great.
New buyers will definitely buy the Cardo. I have the 20S EVO and happy for the moment. The wind is never an issue on the Wing, but bikes with less wind protection...based off the video the Cardo for sure. I see they dunked both systems in a glass of water for over 20 minutes and the Cardo was still working...impressive.
Also Cardo is using JBL speakers as an option and a bass boost through the app is really good. Had not used Sena so far.! Please mention your comment on that as well. Thank you
I'm glad I pulled the trigger on the packtalk bold. My Scala Q3 is getting old and battery won't last long. Keep in mind it's being with me for 5 years of riding thru rain, dirt and dust.
I've used Sena's for a while. From the 10-30k. I just switched over to the Packtalk bold and I'm glad I did. My wife and I (on separate bikes) always had weird little issues with Sena intercom. She couldn't hear me, I couldn't hear her, audio cuts out, music won't play, and so on. I'm fairly tech savvy so I always troubleshoot these issues. With the Sena, it was just too much trouble. Switching to the Packtalk, it's been great! Power on, intercom is already connected. No more annoying wind noise coming from her mic, no more shoddy intercom. Paired with the JBL speakers and my music is always plenty loud without having to max out the volume. My only regret was spending so much money on Sena units in the past.
My first introduction to Cardo was through the SRC system for the Schuberth C3 Pro helmet. It was awful. Because of that, I switched to the SENA system when they came out with the internal system (12U I think) for that same helmet. It was "ok" until a 3rd rider joined the mix then a constant battle to stay in formation or dropouts occurred. I bought 4 SENA 30K units for a ride from Washington to Alaska. They worked better but required a restart about every 1-2 hours in order for the connections to work. Wind noise was a constant problem from one of the riders which led to a batter life of around 5.5 hours. At the time, I thought it was the best we could do. However, I eventually got so fed up with the SENA resets that I bought a dual pack of the Cardo Packtalk Bolds as a trial. The difference is astounding. You are exactly correct in saying that on paper they sound the same but in real world use, there is a world of difference. It took SENA over a year to get a firmware update out for the 30K that actually made it fully functional to use DMC and Bluetooth simultaneously.
With the Packtalk Bold, you can connect to non-Cardo units via Bluetooth on channel A and then bridge them into the DMC network, so you do still have full mesh comms. Each PT Bold unit can bring in one non-Cardo unit to the DMC network. I have recently upgraded to the Bold from the previous version Packtalk and it is brilliant. JBL speakers are awesome and the natural voice is really good. I used to spend all my time cursing at the previous model's voice recognition and ended up never using it. I can vouch for no wind noise at high speed. In summer I have my visor open and the wife doesn't get any feedback or noise over her unit. It has never let me down in the rain, even when it is torrential. Excellent unit.
You convinced me to dump my Sena and get the Cardo. Well worth the swap. Better sound and the voice controls that actually work are the bomb! Thanks for a great comparison!
You can also lure your friends into a rainy ride and wait till their sena's die. You can also use normal intercom mode to talk with senas. In our particle group we use cardos mesh, but if someones has got Bluetooth intercom it can be added to mesh via cardo bridge. One bridged bt connection per packtalk in mesh.
Something wrong with that mic test on the SENA as we have about 10 of them from the 10, 20 and 30 series and we don't have the wind triggering it on at highway speeds. Full face and flip helmets. I'm not a huge fan of the Sena but that is just false.
In my group of biking mates we have 4 Packtalk Bold intercoms. We have no problem communicating at 80+ mph (where the law allows of course). The mesh system work really well, although understanding that you can be a member of more then one group took some time! In the end we deleted all the groups bar one and added everyone into that group. We now have another three mates with Packtalk, but yet to ride with all seven. The boom mic is the best for full face helmets, the mic needs to be just touching the lips for best audio. Music quality is good. There are 3 speaker types - I'm not sure if they are all still available. 1)The bog standard speaker, which I'm told is made by JBL but unbranded. 2) The Packtalk Bold JBL edition, the Packtalk comes with branded JBL speakers. 3) The JBL speaker add-on which has to be bought separately. I have not tried the branded JBL options 2 and 3. The standard speaker is loud enough with earplugs shoved right in. The JBL speaker add-on ones are a bit thicker than the others. I've heard varying reports of the JBL add-on speaker some say it's better sound quality, others that it's quieter. Cardo support have been very responsive when answering questions. The voice recognition has improved with v5.3 firmware. v5.6 has just been released, but we've not tested it yet. v5.3 fixed some other bugs. One of my mates decided he would use the Packtalk to shift his helmet a bit - this ripped the unit out of it's mount and it bounced down the road (in Germany) at 50mph. He managed to turn round and find it. No real damage and it still works perfectly - it's quite a tough unit. The one enhancement I'd like to see is when I shut the unit down at the end of a ride and Cardo floosey says "Goodbye", it would useful if she told me the battery stat-us. So I know if the unit needs recharging. I could say "Hey Cardo, battery stat-us", or look at my phone, but I forget to do it. The cheapest way to buy them is in a "Duo" two unit pack.
Went to Packtalk after a trip where I spent a hour in the hotel with a hairdryer trying to dry out my Sena 20s. Love the Packtalk, if I can get my buddies to switch. They’re getting tired of hearing me say how great it is. 😁
bought a Sena 30K, mostly for listening to music and talking to 1 or 2 riders. Needless to say...it is an overkill. Still, I regret not buying the Cardo, as the waterproofing issue is really really annoying. With every rain, I have to stop, close it, put it in my pocket and then take off...with no music or communication.
Love love love love the review,,, I just lost my 20S that i had for 3 years,,, was thinking about upgrading to the 30k,,, you solve my problem I don't talk to in group rides,, I don't record I don't log I just want to listen to music and maybe take a call,,, I will go with a less expensive version,,, Bob Hope in my 20S shows up
I bought myself a Shoei Neotec 2 helmet and the Sena SRL system to build into it (I originally went for a Schuberth C4 as I wanted built in Comms but it didn’t fit my head shape, turns out this might have been a good thing) From day one I had problems with the Sena unit and despite updating the firmware and app they continued. I returned it to the supplier who happily swapped it for a replacement unit which was the same but I persevered with it only to give up several weeks later. Again the supplier swapped it for a new unit they ordered from the wholesaler and when it arrived we went through the swap over process and tested it out with varied successes. The voice commands had to be given with an American accent and had to be very specific if they were to have any chance of responding. The whole experience was poor and unreliable so the supplier offered to refund or replace the system and at this point I decided to pay a little extra money and upgrade to the Cardo Pack Talk Bold and instantly had a system that worked as expected and without any messing about putting on an American accent. I must say that the supplier was very good in dealing with this as it spanned out over several months. I also dealt with Sena technical support who were very helpful on the phone but despite that the SRL system was very disappointing to say it was fitted to a premium helmet. What I find really disappointing is that Shoei, Schuberth and BMW (I think) all use the Sena system as the basis of their Comms systems and I don’t understand why! One feature I would really like in the Pack Talk Bold but Cardo don’t see a need for it, is to have a facility like the Sena (non working) talk through facility where I could open up the microphone for talking to people without removing the crash helmet. I have explained to Cardo that I use this helmet and their Pack Talk Bold for my volunteer Blood Biking and while collecting or delivering packages at hospitals it would be really useful to be able to initiate this function so I could more easily talk to people and hear them through the in built speakers. This would be even more useful especially at the moment given the increased demand for the services Blood Bikers offer here in the UK.
I use the Sena 20s and have no experience with any other System. I am definitely unhappy with the audio quality when listening to music. I can also confirm many of your points on the video, and I will for sure go for the Cardo Packtalk next time! Thanks for your test!
Your spot on with the Sena. I've had a Sena20 for a couple of years, and trying to talk on my phone has folks telling me they'll call back in a little while. I thought it was just me. Thanks for the info!
I have both Sena and packtalk for the two groups I ride with. You are correct packtalk is much better. Changing units is a pain but I’ve got good at it.
I have the worst possible situation 😥, mates have Cardo and I have Sena. It seems fine so far although we haven't connected with each other yet, and your right about forgetting what all the buttons do after a week 🤣. Wish you had done this video 2 years ago 👍
A review of these units should absolutely include operation with external GPS units and cell phones, very disappointed it was ignored. There are other vital functions than waiting time chatting instead of focusing on safe riding.
30k user and have been with sena since the 5. I like ambient mode a lot and it works for me, odd that you cant get it to work. The wind tests are very extreme for me, yes, cardo cuts it out but try talking and that will be cut out also ;) I guess that it only useful for peoplr that wear open helmets. Good review and still a fair bit left to be desired. One needs to think of their application and go from there, I definitely wouldnt judge each brand from this review but I would use it as a tool decide what you like.
Have had a 20s and now a 30K. The 30K is abismal. Sound quality is shocking and it never works with other units for long. Also had the unit replaced as after an update it would not charge properly and the voice command would not turn off. The voice commands system is also very poor. Will not be buying another Sena system
@@tremorflow3614 Not odd at all. What is the point of a non waterproof system which is mounted externally? Plus the fact that I have two mates with these and both have had them back to Sena for major faults including "bricking" after Firmware update. They are not worth the money or the hassle
I agree with the Sena complaints, but went with them for one reason. I sing in my helmet sometimes while listening to music, and with the Cardo there is no way to mute your mic (this may have changed since my purchase). I also don't want to hear others sing, burp, etc. The Sena allows you to mute your mic and still stay connected to the mesh network. Also, I spoke to a Sena rep who told me that while under warranty, the unit would be replaced for any problem including due to water intrusion. Next system will probably be a Cardo if they implement the mic mute function due to the superior software.
Purchased the Packtalk Bold a few months ago and am a huge fan of it. I did read a lot of reviews between the Cardo and Sena and it seemed like the clear choice was Cardo and it has not disappointed. Lots of different features and learning to get the right button combinations to use the different functions/features...not something to learn while riding.
Good on LWH. I have used a Cardo system for five years Scala Rider Q3 and it has been great. The only issue is that the battery life is dropping and nobody can replace it - so I have bought a Packtalk Bold and will be replacing the Rider Q3 shortly. Scala clearly has the lead at this point - and Sena has fallen badly behind.
What you said at the end. I have a Sena 20S Evo and absolutely HATE it and HATE their customer service, shit company through and through. The only reason I havent changed is because all my friends have some Sena model as well, so switching to a Cardo meaning I will die in social isolation.
Own a Sena SRL in my Neotech II and a Packtalk Bold in my Shoei RJ Platinum. The Packtalk Bold wins hands down, easier to use, clearer sound and connects every time.
I chose a Pak Talk Slim after researching and finding out that Sena is not water proof does not warrant failures so well. I was also told that Cardo has better customer suppot.. I sure wish the Pak Talk Slim was integrated into the Helmet .. As it is now , If I bobble my head it will turn the radio on .. that is with an amrord jacket. My voice command had stopped working Last Summer.. I think I have it working again with software up grades.. My ear speakers fall out on a hot day of you drop your helemt.. I hate to do that but seems it happens 2 or 3 times per year when getting gas or something..
I’ve had my Sena 30K for two years and this is what I’ve found so far. The mesh mode never worked. Poor audio quality. Ended up using Bluetooth only. Worked absolutely fine. No issues. When it comes to water resistance it never failed me once. I’ve been riding on several heavy downpours whiteout a glitch. I’ve never tried to submerge my Sena in a glass of water but then, why should I? Battery life has worked fine. Kiel to Munich on one charge (890km). That’s certainly fine with me. Sound quality? Well, I’ve never tried any other communicator but it’s totally fine as far as I’m concerned. The wind test that you showed is not relevant I think. At least not if you are wearing a full face helmet. The boom mic is shielded inside the helmet and the audio comes through between riders in speeds way over 200 km/h. As a note there is a new firmware update (3.0.1) and that took care of the mesh problem. Now it works perfectly. But it took two years... anyway, I’m happy with the 30K.
I was so disappointed with the Sena 30K until their May 2020 firmware release (3.0.1). Mesh 2 is what the 30K should have been. It's now silent between conversation. No crackles and pops. A totally different experience. Unfortunately, when my colleague has the chin up on his Shoei Neotec the wind noise picked up by the microphone is still very intrusive, even at low speeds.
Hey. Great videos. Super informative and unbiased. I don’t have either unit as of yet. I have been using a set of pre historic from 2012 uclear units. I would never ever recommend anyone buys anything from uclear as they are exceptionally poor products but that is another story. I am in the market for a new set of communicators for my significant other and myself. It’s a shame that a company like Sena that has always been known to produce high quality comm equipment is riding on its name to sell such a poor product. It’s consistent across the board with virtually all reviews I have seen. The 50 series looks appetizing but If Sena has been ignoring the concerns of its customers feedback with the 20 and 30 K they give me no reason to trust the 50 series will be any better. Cardo it’s going to be for me. Heads up Sena. Pay attention to your base. Other wise they won’t be your base much longer.
I have recently purchased a Cardo PacTalk Bold, I have the Sena 20 and 20S models for when I ride out with my wife or meet up with my brother. After a ride this past Easter Sunday my wife mentioned that the Intercom was way too noisy because she kept the visor open on her helmet due to the 96 degree day in SWFL. I can attest that the wind noise was horrible... Sena is very irritating with the Low Power alert, it also is barely audible when on the highway at 70-80 mph. (except the phone call that will shatter your ears because you have the volume all the way up to try and listen to a song). I must say that I gave Cardo a try because of TeaPotOne and LWH reviews of the devices.
I use the Cardo Freecom 4+. My mate runs the pack Talk, and they are just brilliant. They will drop out as you stated, but that's something you just deal with. Nil complaints with Cardo.
Since you mentioned that these are overpriced for only listening to music and taking phone calls, can you make a separate video about the cheaper alternatives you can recommend? Thanks!
After having 3 different senas and a cardo, I still can’t see why they can’t build one with a decent music reproduction system. They all sound like crap, and there are so many types of headphones out there that work really well, with decent volume and frequency response that they can model off.
I have the jbls with the pack talk and it fixes the poor speaker problem. I still prefer the sc1 speakers in my schuberth though. I just wish it connected to each other better.
after having bought the cardo and loving it from the first moment, having watched this video, I'm glad I went for the cardo rather than the inferior sena..
My only disappointment with the Cardo Packtalk Bold so far is that I lose full functionality when paired with my Harley. This is a Harley issue, not Cardo. The Cardo unit is simply spectacular; phone, voice commands and intercom when riding in groups all work perfectly.
The wife and I had the Sena 20s and switched to the Cardo Packtalk Bold JBL. Life is much easier with the Cardo unit. I still think there is lots of room for improvement in the audio quality at high way speeds.
I have the 30K and agree that the mic for picking up external sound in ambient mode doesn't work. However! quite accidentally I discovered that by having the rubber cap over the charging port open drastically improves ambient mode.......
I have sena 20S, Sena SRL2, and finally changed to cardo pack talk. Sena support not able to solve the issue "pop corn noise" when in intercom communication. Wind cancellation on Cardo it's a must when you ride for hours on intercom or DMC mode. Battery alert better in Cardo. The only + for Sena is using it as standalone with remote control. Finally the pack talk for me is the intercom to use. there is a point on 30K not mentionned. when on private mesh they say 30 riders can be configured but ONLY the first 6 riders are connecting to private mesh!
Regarding and Ambient in Sena worked great for us. That's the 1 thing we missed when we went to Cardo. With Ambient I felt like a spy listening to others at the gas station. Also when talking to the clerk or asking for directions. I think you got a bad one with the Ambient.
Thank you for your video. Good review, no “it’s all good” but strait to the point :-) I would like to suggest in you next gadget review, you also have a look at some forums to see how good/bad a company reacts on bugs in the software as this makes or breaks a device. Kind regards André
Got a Sena 30k since 2 years now. We (group of 4 riders) bought this because ( I think) noone had the Packtalk on any list whatsoever. It was "Sena or bust" - so we bought the Sena. At first I was blown away from music quality on higher speeds and so on, but later technical difficulties came up. 1st of all IF its just you and your buddy audio quality is great BUT once a 3rd joins in you can hear the voice qualy dropping MIIIIIIILES. And I mean miles. 2nd thing was we all agreed that we´re only connecting to each other when we really want to talk or command or anything but whenever we try to connect its NOT working as expected. Sometimes you connect - sometimes you dont. Guess what? IF its kinda urgent its not working for some reason. I can´t say I am dissapointed - I wanted to listen to music and talk to fellow riders from time to time; well its exactly this (lol) I was thinking of stepping over to Cardo with the next helmet but on the other hand it would be another 270€ so I dont know
You forgot bullet proof. I have the Packtalk, my helmet fell to the road and landed on the Packtalk, The palktalk protected the helmet and kept on working to this day. It received a couple of dings near the volume control which I got some matching silver model paint and was able to repair good as new. Bluetooth can be paired and bridged into the mesh network. So if you have a passenger they don’t need to have a Packtalk as well any universal Bluetooth will do. Done it. Theoretically 15 riders could have a pillion with Bluetooth and you’d have 30 in the group. Waterproof confirmed. Friend and I rode 225k in the rain. Next time we met his Sena 20s was stuffed. Also try as we might his Sena 20s would not pair to the Palktalk in Bluetooth. Yet a cheap Chinese Bluetooth pairs easily for my passengers.
Spot on with your review, bought a pair of packtalk bolds so I can speak to my son when we’re riding together, Effortless connection every time , and a good app for the phone Range is disappointing, much less than the interphones we used to run, but interphone don’t have as DMC model
He venido usando Sena: smh 10 y ahora el 30K, los he preferido por el servicio posventa porque me parece Sena ha tenido mejor atención. Hay un problema que no sé si se presente en los cardo: los cables de micrófono y altavoces que van unidos a la unidad de anclaje tienden a reventarse con el tiempo por el uso al quitar y poner el casco (tengo un Shark).
I bought the dualpack Sena 30k with a friend for a couple of reasons. 1) Mesh seemed like a smart choice after having dealt with off-brand communication devices and pairing several bluetooth units together and swapping between them. 2) The 30k was supposed to be a Bluetooth-HUB for other devices that did not have Mesh, so everything but the 30k at that point, meaning you could have group chats with other devices than the 30k. 3) It was advertised as a smart device, with an app and voice controll etc. You mention them all in your video. In reality this is what it's like. 1) Mesh is complete crap, the quality is beyond abysmal no matter how far or close you are, with the antenna up or down. so we end up using Bluetooth all the time, but a little plus here is that the pairing of 2x30k is super easy and fast even with Bluetooth. 2) This idea that the 30k could be like a "HUB" for other devices is only ever true if all the connected units are also Sena. This does show up in the fine print, but during advertisement they never mentioned this limitation. You can at most have 1 other device, or "generic bluetooth device", connected to the 30k at one time. Your phone or other Sena product does not count into this so theoretically, and we tested this, you can have a phone, another sena device and one more none-sena device connected and have a group chat. For me this meant that out of the 4 of us with only 2 sena units we could be 3 people talking because only one of the 30k unit could be this HUB. So you can't pair brandX -> 30k, brandX -> another 30k and then have the 30k's paired and do 4-way communication. I tested this at home with all the devices we used. I kind of wished this was the case when I bought the units but it didn't work like that. 3) The voice controls work randomly, "Hello Sena" triggers sometimes and sometimes not. In general this feature list of FM radio and music on while talking didn't turn out to be such a important part of the entire experience. Now about the mesh technology and the claimed range of this, i can't help but think that when Sena writes 2km and Cardo writes 1km they don't mean two riders out riding that far a part, it has to mean the total size of the mesh network. So you could be let's say 15 people spread out over and area that size and the mesh network would theoretically still work. Because let's face it if you go LoS your connection will degrade or break so you would have to be in the salt flats somewhere for this number to be taken seriously. The voice quality is complete garbage when using Mesh for us so we always use BT instead. A friend with Cardo also says that the packtalk mesh thing is not as good as the BT. When my unit dies I will surely look for another alternative.
Have the Cardo packtalk, not the bold version. What is great is that that Cardo still releas firmware updates for my units, not only the latest bold version. Not sure what actually changed with the bold version. May be it only has to do with the introduction of the "natural voice reckn" feature. Battery lifetime impress me, and the built quality. The feelings of the button and thumb wheel access is great. Only problem is it takes a while to get used to all the settings and BT pairing options. Pairing second channel you can dial the thumb wheel back and forth to tell the packtalk unit that it is your gps unit you pairing. With the latest fw update seem BT pairing has improved. This time I got my TomTom 450 and phone working much better together with the packtalk unit.
Very good review. I'm still using a Sena S20 (had it for 3.5 years) and I'm disappointed with the lack of water proofing (cuts out when it gets to wet), battery time warning and the wind noise when talking on the phone or to another rider.
I agree with just about every thing you have said about Sena and it's shortcomings. However, being hard of hearing, I use custom made earbuds/speakers plugged into the clamp that block 30db of sound from the outside. So in order to be able to hear someone else, I use the ambient mode. It isn't great, but it's ok, the weird part is that the microphone is under the charging port and in order to hear anything so it doesn't sound like someone is underwater, you have to open the charging port, and then let rain in and it gets killed. Mine has made some very weird noises in the rain, but never quite died, yet. I wish I could switch to Cardo if they implemented something like Ambient function in their own product, I would jump ship like a drowning rat on a worm riddle ship.
My Schuberth has the built in Sena, but the location makes reaching buttons near impossible and pairing for group chat requires pushing either of the 2 buttons in a very specific manner, using the instructions you got on a credid card size page when you bought the helmet. The App offers no assistance whatsoever in this regard as it does not have the instructions for that particular sena on its system. Before I got the Schuberth I had an Autocom, which was much more user friendly for a portion of the price.
goldiefish72 I have to connect my c4 pro to a pack talk my wife uses and it sucks! I like the speakers when listening to music and she can hear me when we talk, but getting connected is terrible. And navigating the sc1 on the helmet is clunky even with voice prompts. And yes, feeling for buttons is near impossible.
![Warhammer 40k: Space Marine 2 | เพื่อจักรพรรดิ ! [ตอนเดียวจบ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4M0ckYMA4-U/mqdefault.jpg)
Sena or Cardo? What's your flavour?
Please can you compare with the Cardo Freecom plus
Cardo Packtalk Slim myself. Had a Sena, died in an afternoon shower. Went Cardo and never looked back.
Packtalk Bold all the way. Had Sena before and hated it.
Cardo is FANTASTIC. I rode in the rain for 3hrs, Capetown to Bloemfontein in rain and my mic stopped working. I could hear the other doode, He couldn't hear me. Anyhow, Cardo replaced my mic FOC. Ps- his kept working right through the rain, mine stopped coz I was using an open faced helmet for the trip.
Cardo Packtalk Bold with JBL speakers! Excellent unit.....
Well done LWH, I love it when someone has the balls to actually give a detailed review and conclusion without saying "oh, they both win". Keep up the good work!
I picked up the Cardo Freecom 4+ last year. I love how well the voice commands work, the clarity of the JBL speakers and how the volume will increase to accommodate for outside noise. I started looking into the Cardo unit after Fort9's review.
I got the same unit and it's great, however the voice commands don't work for me. I've taken it back out to see if the wires were ok and it worked then but back on the bike it didn't. I'm still loving it regardless
@@marekbojarczuk5102 thats od, does the mic pick up your voice for phone calls and intercoms?
Sena won’t be sending you a Christmas card this year,lol.That was a very comprehensive review.Thanks!
:))) Hopefully they'll send the 50 series when it's ready.
@@LongWayHome i love watching your videos but..
The Sena 30k is able to do all the things the Cardo can do.. You've to update the software on your device and it works without any wind noises or bad sound quality.. I know, Sena is always releasing their products to early but the first software update is always fixing all the problems. I am very disappointed with you.. First you are using one source to build your own opinion and second you're spreading this opinion to others who trust your judgment.. That's something I am very sad to see..
th-cam.com/video/q0vDO-66S1M/w-d-xo.html
Maybe this video will help you to understand my thoughts.
Keep up the good work and keep up testing yourself so your expert judgment has not to rely on others.
Best regards!
This video is spot on. Let me share my experience with the Sena 20S and the Cardo PackTalk Bold. I ride with a group of 9 friends. At first we had a mish mosh of Sena products. Most of us had the 20S and a few had lesser models but they all talked to each other - Sometimes... Sena's were fine one on one but add a couple more riders and connections dropped every few seconds. We were never able to actually get all nine of us in one group. Usually we'd split into two groups but even then riders would drop. In some cases riders from one group would jump into the other group for no reason. Every time we got together we'd have to erase previous groups and start the pairing process over again. Sometimes we'd have to pair the groups twice a day if we turned the units off during lunch. The Sena experience was very frustrating. I feel the company beta tests with their customers and brings a half baked product to market. Sound quality on the Sena's was poor. Theres a constant crackling in the background and the noise gets worse with every rider that's added to a group.
Now, after a few seasons with the Sena's we all decided to bite the bullet and purchase Cardo Packtalk Bold units. The difference is night and day. Pair the Cardo with your phone and everything is voice controlled. Voice commands actually work!!! Want to check messages, send a text, make a call, play music, raise or lower volume, it's all voice controlled. I believe we bought the Cardo's in 2018 and once we were all paired together in a single group of nine we've never had to pair again. If a few of us go for a ride it's no issue we pair up as soon as we're in range of one another. While riding, if one group falls out of range with another the riders that are together stay connected. Once we get back together we're all connected again. It just works seamlessly. Sound quality is much improved too. Even without the JBL upgrade the Cardo's have very little background noise. The noise cancelling software works great! No pops or crackling. The mic's are gated (Closed) until a someone speaks. Wind noise, buffeting, or general ambient noise does not trigger the gate and open the mics. The Cardo's are a pleasure! Every feature works as advertised. In other words, Sena = BAD - Cardo = AWESOME.
Well Ralph, that's music to my ears (there's a joke there somewhere). I bought a BMW Fit For All Intercom last June. It's made by Sena. My wife and I went to the continent. Very poor performance from the intercom - so... took the units back and had a refund. I was then recommended to go for the Sena 20s evo by a friend who raved about how good they were. They WERE better than the BMW units but had hoped for a bigger improvement. Rode back from Malaga in March this year with a friend. He had Packtalk Bold and we struggled to pair the two units and gave up in the end. So... I've just sold the Sena units on Ebay and intened to buy Packtalk Bold Duo. I hope it's as "night and day" as you say.
Is there likely to be a new version coming out soon that might be worth waiting for?
@@phillangford4059 the newest cardo devices is packtalk cardo black edition with 45mm JBL Speaker and Black coloured devices.
@@axelsetiawan9512 OK, Thanks for that. I bought the Packtalk Bold in the end and very impressed with it. Your review was spot on, so thanks for pointing me in the right direction. Cheers, Phil.
buying the cardos just based of this comment,thanks!
@@GordosLyfe You're welcome!
My Wife and I have the PackTalk Bold and they are brilliant. Set them up once and they just work faultlessly. No wind noise or anything. Would highly recommend them them.
Cardoza Slim here. Love it! Noise cancellation is awesome. At 75 mph if my office calls they know I'm riding as there is NO background noise, like my car hands free.
I grabbed the packtalk slim and i regret nothing. Absolutely love the device riding in a group or solo. Voice controls are so clutch.
Done a two week European tour for the last 4 years with the packtalks and they have not let us down once! You are spot on with the battery warning too, at least 2 hours before it dies and you can also charge with a power bank whilst still using them. A fantastic bit of kit and the music quality is awesome with the optional JBL upgrade speakers. Cardo is hands down the best! Expensive but worth every penny!
We use the Sena and you are right about the range and power warning. I find noise cancellation adequate and have ridden in the rain with my Senas for years w/o problem. One problem I had was with the equipment's teeny eenny weenny wire it uses near the mic. If you're not careful, they can break. They're so small that you would possibly need to take it to a jeweler to get it fixed. Good vid, thx!
Last thing you want to be doing when you should be enjoying a long awaited ride out...is fiddling around trying to get them paired up...not so with Cardo...in my experience.
Paired up once with my son on bmws...fired up every time after no hassle.
Like the Cardo.Chris in Ireland.
Cardo win for 100% waterproof devices 👍🏼. After 2 years, i still love my Cardo Packtalk Slim 😍.
Why did you go with the Slim option? Trying to decide between the two variants. Tks
@@fortunebayson1180 I can't answer for them, but in my case I loved the idea of a lower profile unit because I didnt want the extra wind noise from the drag created by a big blocky unit on the side of the helmet, and I like that the helmet stays more balanced at higher speeds for this same reason
@@fortunebayson1180 just got my slim JBL for $240, absolute steal. Never been more impressed with audio recognition before this unit. If you’re on the fence, get it!
I’ve been using Sena for 5 years. The 20S and the 30K. My girlfriend had a Cardo when I met her so I figured I’d buy the pack talk bold to be able to talk to her. All I can say is WOW! What have I been missing out on! The Cardo literally does everything better than my Sena 30k! Don’t even get me started on the audio quality. The Cardo speakers sound ten times better than the Sena speakers. Needless to say I pulled my 2 Sena 20s and one 30k of my helmets and immediately sold them to buy another Cardo pack talk bold. If you’re in the market for a communicator, don’t even look at the Sena. It’s a waste of money!
I agree with you. I ride in groups and have used Sena 20s for 3 years. The first thing we did was go to Starbucks to sit around drinking coffee trying to get the multiple units to pair. We usually were not successful in getting all of them to pair and would usually give up out of frustration. I switched to the Cardo PackTalk bold and now we meet up and have all the helmets paired before any of us finish our coffee. We ride static free and the units link up with no issues. The Cardo's voice command actually work and the JBL speakers are louder and more clear than my old Sena speakers. Cardo is the hassle free way to go if you want the best experience with your group.
I used the Sena 20s for about a year and then changed to the Cardo packtalk bold. Wow, what a difference. The Cardo is superior in every way. I'm never going back to Sena.
Just bought a cardo packtalk bold duo and lovin every sec of it 🥰
My daily commute is around 200 miles (Midlands into London and back), which i make rain or shine / summer or winter - HAVE to have intercom / music for journey. Had a 20S originally and, as covered in vid, it failed very soon after as it was NOT waterproof, contacted Sena and can confirm their customer service is even worse than their software implementation highlighted in your vid. Changed to Packtalk Bold (with JBL speakers which are better than Sena's but only average compared to any mid market headphones) and it has been great, very reliable and would echo your recommendation. Completely off topic, but been riding for about 25 years, a couple of years ago, during an exceptionally cold evening journey home, stopped for fuel and (as you do) got chatting to another rider who also was fool enough to be out in February. He had a heated jacket and appeared much more content than me, riding off I started to wonder why I had never invested in one?? . . . so went and bought a Gerbing heated jacket, which plugs into my trickle charger outlet on the bike,(need to buy adapter separately) and NEVER LOOKED BACK!! It is brilliant, can thoroughly recommend.
Was just about to buy a Sena , but after watching this I wont! The outside noise cancellation sells it for me. Thanks for a nice honest review! Must admit that I am rather puzzled that Sena have not even bothered to look into some of these issues. (maybe they dont need the money) Cheers and have a great day!
Hi, nice review firstly, you've addressed real issues that bikers face.
However i disagree with two things.
1. Battery warning - I have 3 Sena's including the 10C and my battery lasts for about an hour before th set dies down. You MAY have had that issue specifically with the unit you have, not sure.
2. I've ised Sena in heavy rains, literal downpours and not had any issues. Ofcourse, they are NOT meant to be submerged, so that test may not be the best way to check for Water resisting capabilities.
That said, Cardo does make them waterproof, so in the event you leave your helmet in a tub or land up in a lake, the unit will still function!
Other things i totally agree with, Sena have a massive opportunity to improve their software support and consistency!
IP67 is a submersion test at a certain depth and time. You cannot rate your device as IP67 if it cannot pass the standard. IP66 is a higher rating then IP67 as it is tested with water pressure and can penetrate seals versus dunking.
My battery warning on my Sena is about 2 minutes. It seems like it uses what battery it has left to send you the message.
I've had the Sena 20S for 2 years now. I have 3 comm's for family members and several bases for different helmets. The system works OK (most of the time). Pairing can be difficult and we are careful to keep the comm's on even when we stop for fuel/potty breaks. Even with the most recent software update (completed just last week), the sound quality is only average. The range is definitely only "line of site." Listening to music and chatting over the intercom realistically will drain the battery in 6 to 8 hours. I keep a portable charger with me for the longer rides. Wind noise is an issue. A friend of mine still cannot get all of the 20S features to work with his 2018 Goldwing (music, GPS, phone and intercom working all at the same time) and we struggle to get paired for each of our shared rides. If I wasn't so heavily invested in the Sena system, I would switch.
30K user here for 2 years running... everything you note is 100% on point. I cannot recommend the Sena over the Packtalk; I bought it because my riding buddies use Sena. Meh.
Scott Peterson so Sena doesn’t connect with cardo and vice versa? Everyone I ride with have sena but I want cardo. Can I still get cardo and connect with them?
JJ OC you can connect Cardo to sena but you cannot use the extra features that they offer when connecting the same brand together.
@@jjoc5587 I was able to connect to a non Cardo comm system via Bluetooth to my Packtalk and then switch over to DMC mode and add them to the group. I don't know if they have since removed this feature with the latest firmware but it did allow for DMC users to add in a non DMC user (or non Cardo for that matter) to the group. I think it's called DMC bridging. I used it a few times in the past and it worked fairly well. The only drawback is that they are tied to you, so if you leave the DMC group but they don't, they would lose their link to the DMC group and would have to pair up the same way they did with you with a different DMC user.
MrOutOfTheVoid very valuable information! Thank you very much 🙏
so glad I chose cardo packtalk bold for my dive into this realm! I have had mine about 2 weeks and love it.
I have a Sena 20s for three years and the unit worked very well. The problem started when the battery simply die out because it was too old. I contacted Sena to buy a replacement new battery and they turned me away. They claimed they didn’t sell batteries for their units. I found a replacement battery online, installed correctly, and the unit worked but with a very limited battery charge. I have to recharge the battery everyday, and without using the unit so much. May be three or phone short calls a day, and the battery was dead. I purchased another battery, but a different brand, the same thing happened. Battery didn’t last more than four calls. I got tired of Sena and I purchased a Cardo Pack Talk. So far it is great.
I just bought the PackTalk Bold JBL. Used the voice controls to make a phone call (OK Google Call...). My buddy couldn't believe I was doing 90 km/h on a motorcycle! He said it sounded like I was driving in a car (so not perfect, but no wind or loud background noise). And the voice controls are crazy good!
Good review, I can vouch first hand for every remark shared on the SENA 30k, I purchased the dual set and felt let down as a trusting customer. SENA should just focus on getting the basic functions working right and working all the time instead of a constant hit or miss lottery game every time you switch the devices on.
Have been using a Sena 20S 01 for more than 5 years now and have mentioned my observation.
1) In Line of sight get a range of 1 kms
2) Have used it in heavy to very heavy rains and once or twice in the past 5 years had to pull over and wipe the contact points and the unit was back to normal.
3) Setting up the unit with fellow riders and your own phone was very simple
4) Ambient mode works just fine, two clicks to the command button and the mode is on/off
5) The universal pairing mode which can pair with any other bluetooth headset including your normal phone headsets is nice useful and saves money to buy another unit for your casual pillion rider
6) The last minute battery warning gets painful but then again I plug my powerbank and the unit become full functional while it's getting charged as well.
7) I appreciate the fact that they have kept the cradle common for a lot of models which gives user an option to opt for just the unit.
Wow, this was a great review, I’m so glad I was curious!! I’ve owned Sena 20 for about 5yrs and recently the Sena SRL. I’ve been a great fan of Sena, but I see here that it’s time for an Upgrade!! You are are spot on Sir, thank you so much!!
We also found a lot of trouble with the 30K in the past. Since the last Software Update things became better. We changed the units already 2 times 😔. One System also broke down on the third day of a 18.000 km trip across Europe, just because of rain I guess. The Sena gave us so much trouble, has startet multiple fights in the group, just because of bad communicaten quality and dysfunctionality. We definitely don’t recommend to go for a Sena 🤷♂️
Thanks for the review. I've been using the Cardo products since their first unit. After about 4 or 5 years went to the Q3, and then last summer the PT Bold. They just work and their customer service is great.
New buyers will definitely buy the Cardo. I have the 20S EVO and happy for the moment.
The wind is never an issue on the Wing, but bikes with less wind protection...based off the video the Cardo for sure.
I see they dunked both systems in a glass of water for over 20 minutes and the Cardo was still working...impressive.
IP67 rating means one meter of water for up to 30 minutes. Same as your phone probably.
Also Cardo is using JBL speakers as an option and a bass boost through the app is really good. Had not used Sena so far.! Please mention your comment on that as well. Thank you
I'm glad I pulled the trigger on the packtalk bold. My Scala Q3 is getting old and battery won't last long. Keep in mind it's being with me for 5 years of riding thru rain, dirt and dust.
Nice camera work under difficult management conditions again, Dave!!! Keep it up,!!😂😂😂
I knew how this was going to play out before I even started watching!
I've used Sena's for a while. From the 10-30k. I just switched over to the Packtalk bold and I'm glad I did. My wife and I (on separate bikes) always had weird little issues with Sena intercom. She couldn't hear me, I couldn't hear her, audio cuts out, music won't play, and so on. I'm fairly tech savvy so I always troubleshoot these issues. With the Sena, it was just too much trouble. Switching to the Packtalk, it's been great! Power on, intercom is already connected. No more annoying wind noise coming from her mic, no more shoddy intercom. Paired with the JBL speakers and my music is always plenty loud without having to max out the volume. My only regret was spending so much money on Sena units in the past.
I have upgraded my old cardo for the new cardo and the only thing I would like at the moment is longer battery life.
My first introduction to Cardo was through the SRC system for the Schuberth C3 Pro helmet. It was awful. Because of that, I switched to the SENA system when they came out with the internal system (12U I think) for that same helmet. It was "ok" until a 3rd rider joined the mix then a constant battle to stay in formation or dropouts occurred. I bought 4 SENA 30K units for a ride from Washington to Alaska. They worked better but required a restart about every 1-2 hours in order for the connections to work. Wind noise was a constant problem from one of the riders which led to a batter life of around 5.5 hours. At the time, I thought it was the best we could do. However, I eventually got so fed up with the SENA resets that I bought a dual pack of the Cardo Packtalk Bolds as a trial. The difference is astounding. You are exactly correct in saying that on paper they sound the same but in real world use, there is a world of difference. It took SENA over a year to get a firmware update out for the 30K that actually made it fully functional to use DMC and Bluetooth simultaneously.
With the Packtalk Bold, you can connect to non-Cardo units via Bluetooth on channel A and then bridge them into the DMC network, so you do still have full mesh comms. Each PT Bold unit can bring in one non-Cardo unit to the DMC network. I have recently upgraded to the Bold from the previous version Packtalk and it is brilliant. JBL speakers are awesome and the natural voice is really good. I used to spend all my time cursing at the previous model's voice recognition and ended up never using it. I can vouch for no wind noise at high speed. In summer I have my visor open and the wife doesn't get any feedback or noise over her unit. It has never let me down in the rain, even when it is torrential. Excellent unit.
Had a Sena 20s for years. Just went to a Packtalk Slim on my new helmet and it’s leaps and bounds better than the Sena.
You convinced me to dump my Sena and get the Cardo. Well worth the swap. Better sound and the voice controls that actually work are the bomb! Thanks for a great comparison!
You can also lure your friends into a rainy ride and wait till their sena's die. You can also use normal intercom mode to talk with senas. In our particle group we use cardos mesh, but if someones has got Bluetooth intercom it can be added to mesh via cardo bridge. One bridged bt connection per packtalk in mesh.
I had a Sena - nightmare. Love the natural voice commands of the Cardo Backtalk Bold works perfectly with Cardo or Siri commands.
Hahahaha “backtalk bold” if that was a typo I love it. I prefer the back talk as well!!
Something wrong with that mic test on the SENA as we have about 10 of them from the 10, 20 and 30 series and we don't have the wind triggering it on at highway speeds. Full face and flip helmets. I'm not a huge fan of the Sena but that is just false.
All the rest is true! Sena really needs to get their act together.
I have both and certainly prefer the Cardo.
In my group of biking mates we have 4 Packtalk Bold intercoms. We have no problem communicating at 80+ mph (where the law allows of course). The mesh system work really well, although understanding that you can be a member of more then one group took some time! In the end we deleted all the groups bar one and added everyone into that group. We now have another three mates with Packtalk, but yet to ride with all seven.
The boom mic is the best for full face helmets, the mic needs to be just touching the lips for best audio. Music quality is good.
There are 3 speaker types - I'm not sure if they are all still available. 1)The bog standard speaker, which I'm told is made by JBL but unbranded. 2) The Packtalk Bold JBL edition, the Packtalk comes with branded JBL speakers. 3) The JBL speaker add-on which has to be bought separately. I have not tried the branded JBL options 2 and 3. The standard speaker is loud enough with earplugs shoved right in. The JBL speaker add-on ones are a bit thicker than the others. I've heard varying reports of the JBL add-on speaker some say it's better sound quality, others that it's quieter.
Cardo support have been very responsive when answering questions.
The voice recognition has improved with v5.3 firmware. v5.6 has just been released, but we've not tested it yet. v5.3 fixed some other bugs.
One of my mates decided he would use the Packtalk to shift his helmet a bit - this ripped the unit out of it's mount and it bounced down the road (in Germany) at 50mph. He managed to turn round and find it. No real damage and it still works perfectly - it's quite a tough unit.
The one enhancement I'd like to see is when I shut the unit down at the end of a ride and Cardo floosey says "Goodbye", it would useful if she told me the battery stat-us. So I know if the unit needs recharging. I could say "Hey Cardo, battery stat-us", or look at my phone, but I forget to do it.
The cheapest way to buy them is in a "Duo" two unit pack.
Went to Packtalk after a trip where I spent a hour in the hotel with a hairdryer trying to dry out my Sena 20s. Love the Packtalk, if I can get my buddies to switch. They’re getting tired of hearing me say how great it is. 😁
Cardo all the way! Been using them for 3 years and they are super dependable and always work!
Thank you for confirming I made the right choice, phew! Only found your video AFTER buying the Cardo 😅
Great video, I got upgraded from the Sean to Packtalk Slim and LOVE IT!!!!
Man...love the review... WOW.... I got to know way much more about the brands...the my options. It appears that you saved me from headaches.
Have the 30k and I agree with everything u have said, in the process of buying a packtalk. Buying the 30k was a expensive mistake.
Pack Talk Bold - JBL. Great system. Had a bit of a learning curve to figure it all out.
bought a Sena 30K, mostly for listening to music and talking to 1 or 2 riders. Needless to say...it is an overkill.
Still, I regret not buying the Cardo, as the waterproofing issue is really really annoying. With every rain, I have to stop, close it, put it in my pocket and then take off...with no music or communication.
Love love love love the review,,, I just lost my 20S that i had for 3 years,,, was thinking about upgrading to the 30k,,, you solve my problem I don't talk to in group rides,, I don't record I don't log I just want to listen to music and maybe take a call,,, I will go with a less expensive version,,, Bob Hope in my 20S shows up
I bought myself a Shoei Neotec 2 helmet and the Sena SRL system to build into it (I originally went for a Schuberth C4 as I wanted built in Comms but it didn’t fit my head shape, turns out this might have been a good thing) From day one I had problems with the Sena unit and despite updating the firmware and app they continued. I returned it to the supplier who happily swapped it for a replacement unit which was the same but I persevered with it only to give up several weeks later. Again the supplier swapped it for a new unit they ordered from the wholesaler and when it arrived we went through the swap over process and tested it out with varied successes. The voice commands had to be given with an American accent and had to be very specific if they were to have any chance of responding. The whole experience was poor and unreliable so the supplier offered to refund or replace the system and at this point I decided to pay a little extra money and upgrade to the Cardo Pack Talk Bold and instantly had a system that worked as expected and without any messing about putting on an American accent. I must say that the supplier was very good in dealing with this as it spanned out over several months. I also dealt with Sena technical support who were very helpful on the phone but despite that the SRL system was very disappointing to say it was fitted to a premium helmet. What I find really disappointing is that Shoei, Schuberth and BMW (I think) all use the Sena system as the basis of their Comms systems and I don’t understand why!
One feature I would really like in the Pack Talk Bold but Cardo don’t see a need for it, is to have a facility like the Sena (non working) talk through facility where I could open up the microphone for talking to people without removing the crash helmet. I have explained to Cardo that I use this helmet and their Pack Talk Bold for my volunteer Blood Biking and while collecting or delivering packages at hospitals it would be really useful to be able to initiate this function so I could more easily talk to people and hear them through the in built speakers.
This would be even more useful especially at the moment given the increased demand for the services Blood Bikers offer here in the UK.
I use the Sena 20s and have no experience with any other System. I am definitely unhappy with the audio quality when listening to music. I can also confirm many of your points on the video, and I will for sure go for the Cardo Packtalk next time! Thanks for your test!
Waterproof and battery are the reason I'm switching from my 20s to cardo. And the battery warning always shows 20% on my phone and still dies.
Excellent video! Nicely done! Compliments from here in America!
Your spot on with the Sena. I've had a Sena20 for a couple of years, and trying to talk on my phone has folks telling me they'll call back in a little while. I thought it was just me.
Thanks for the info!
Fantastic review. Detailed and clear. Well done.
I have both Sena and packtalk for the two groups I ride with. You are correct packtalk is much better. Changing units is a pain but I’ve got good at it.
I have the worst possible situation 😥, mates have Cardo and I have Sena. It seems fine so far although we haven't connected with each other yet, and your right about forgetting what all the buttons do after a week 🤣. Wish you had done this video 2 years ago 👍
A review of these units should absolutely include operation with external GPS units and cell phones, very disappointed it was ignored. There are other vital functions than waiting time chatting instead of focusing on safe riding.
30k user and have been with sena since the 5.
I like ambient mode a lot and it works for me, odd that you cant get it to work. The wind tests are very extreme for me, yes, cardo cuts it out but try talking and that will be cut out also ;)
I guess that it only useful for peoplr that wear open helmets. Good review and still a fair bit left to be desired. One needs to think of their application and go from there, I definitely wouldnt judge each brand from this review but I would use it as a tool decide what you like.
Have had a 20s and now a 30K. The 30K is abismal. Sound quality is shocking and it never works with other units for long. Also had the unit replaced as after an update it would not charge properly and the voice command would not turn off. The voice commands system is also very poor. Will not be buying another Sena system
@@frew168 Odd, no issues at all with mine with 3 phones and two bikes.
@@tremorflow3614 Not odd at all. What is the point of a non waterproof system which is mounted externally? Plus the fact that I have two mates with these and both have had them back to Sena for major faults including "bricking" after Firmware update. They are not worth the money or the hassle
I agree with the Sena complaints, but went with them for one reason. I sing in my helmet sometimes while listening to music, and with the Cardo there is no way to mute your mic (this may have changed since my purchase). I also don't want to hear others sing, burp, etc. The Sena allows you to mute your mic and still stay connected to the mesh network. Also, I spoke to a Sena rep who told me that while under warranty, the unit would be replaced for any problem including due to water intrusion. Next system will probably be a Cardo if they implement the mic mute function due to the superior software.
Purchased the Packtalk Bold a few months ago and am a huge fan of it. I did read a lot of reviews between the Cardo and Sena and it seemed like the clear choice was Cardo and it has not disappointed. Lots of different features and learning to get the right button combinations to use the different functions/features...not something to learn while riding.
I went for Cardo pactalk after having Sena 20S. The sad point is that several helmets work with Sena for their integrated Bluetooth system
Marketing 101
Good on LWH. I have used a Cardo system for five years Scala Rider Q3 and it has been great. The only issue is that the battery life is dropping and nobody can replace it - so I have bought a Packtalk Bold and will be replacing the Rider Q3 shortly. Scala clearly has the lead at this point - and Sena has fallen badly behind.
This is by far the best review, helped me out tremendously! Thorough and direct no bs! Got my like and subscription 👍
Glad it helped!
What you said at the end. I have a Sena 20S Evo and absolutely HATE it and HATE their customer service, shit company through and through. The only reason I havent changed is because all my friends have some Sena model as well, so switching to a Cardo meaning I will die in social isolation.
Own a Sena SRL in my Neotech II and a Packtalk Bold in my Shoei RJ Platinum. The Packtalk Bold wins hands down, easier to use, clearer sound and connects every time.
I chose a Pak Talk Slim after researching and finding out that Sena is not water proof does not warrant failures so well. I was also told that Cardo has better customer suppot..
I sure wish the Pak Talk Slim was integrated into the Helmet .. As it is now , If I bobble my head it will turn the radio on .. that is with an amrord jacket. My voice command had stopped working Last Summer.. I think I have it working again with software up grades.. My ear speakers fall out on a hot day of you drop your helemt.. I hate to do that but seems it happens 2 or 3 times per year when getting gas or something..
I’ve had my Sena 30K for two years and this is what I’ve found so far. The mesh mode never worked. Poor audio quality. Ended up using Bluetooth only. Worked absolutely fine. No issues. When it comes to water resistance it never failed me once. I’ve been riding on several heavy downpours whiteout a glitch. I’ve never tried to submerge my Sena in a glass of water but then, why should I? Battery life has worked fine. Kiel to Munich on one charge (890km). That’s certainly fine with me. Sound quality? Well, I’ve never tried any other communicator but it’s totally fine as far as I’m concerned. The wind test that you showed is not relevant I think. At least not if you are wearing a full face helmet. The boom mic is shielded inside the helmet and the audio comes through between riders in speeds way over 200 km/h. As a note there is a new firmware update (3.0.1) and that took care of the mesh problem. Now it works perfectly. But it took two years... anyway, I’m happy with the 30K.
I was so disappointed with the Sena 30K until their May 2020 firmware release (3.0.1). Mesh 2 is what the 30K should have been. It's now silent between conversation. No crackles and pops. A totally different experience. Unfortunately, when my colleague has the chin up on his Shoei Neotec the wind noise picked up by the microphone is still very intrusive, even at low speeds.
Another brilliant, no bull$hit review. Love your videos👍. It’s the Cardo for me.
I definitely agree with you 👍
Hey. Great videos. Super informative and unbiased. I don’t have either unit as of yet. I have been using a set of pre historic from 2012 uclear units. I would never ever recommend anyone buys anything from uclear as they are exceptionally poor products but that is another story. I am in the market for a new set of communicators for my significant other and myself. It’s a shame that a company like Sena that has always been known to produce high quality comm equipment is riding on its name to sell such a poor product. It’s consistent across the board with virtually all reviews I have seen. The 50 series looks appetizing but If Sena has been ignoring the concerns of its customers feedback with the 20 and 30 K they give me no reason to trust the 50 series will be any better. Cardo it’s going to be for me. Heads up Sena. Pay attention to your base. Other wise they won’t be your base much longer.
I have recently purchased a Cardo PacTalk Bold, I have the Sena 20 and 20S models for when I ride out with my wife or meet up with my brother. After a ride this past Easter Sunday my wife mentioned that the Intercom was way too noisy because she kept the visor open on her helmet due to the 96 degree day in SWFL. I can attest that the wind noise was horrible... Sena is very irritating with the Low Power alert, it also is barely audible when on the highway at 70-80 mph. (except the phone call that will shatter your ears because you have the volume all the way up to try and listen to a song). I must say that I gave Cardo a try because of TeaPotOne and LWH reviews of the devices.
I use the Cardo Freecom 4+. My mate runs the pack Talk, and they are just brilliant. They will drop out as you stated, but that's something you just deal with. Nil complaints with Cardo.
Since you mentioned that these are overpriced for only listening to music and taking phone calls, can you make a separate video about the cheaper alternatives you can recommend? Thanks!
After having 3 different senas and a cardo, I still can’t see why they can’t build one with a decent music reproduction system. They all sound like crap, and there are so many types of headphones out there that work really well, with decent volume and frequency response that they can model off.
Music reproduction depends on a lot of variables but have you tried the jbl speakers?
Mike Fidale no, but I’m keen to. Do these just replace the supplied helmet speakers and where do I get them?
I found that using earphone is the way to go.
I have the jbls with the pack talk and it fixes the poor speaker problem. I still prefer the sc1 speakers in my schuberth though. I just wish it connected to each other better.
after having bought the cardo and loving it from the first moment, having watched this video, I'm glad I went for the cardo rather than the inferior sena..
My only disappointment with the Cardo Packtalk Bold so far is that I lose full functionality when paired with my Harley. This is a Harley issue, not Cardo. The Cardo unit is simply spectacular; phone, voice commands and intercom when riding in groups all work perfectly.
The wife and I had the Sena 20s and switched to the Cardo Packtalk Bold JBL. Life is much easier with the Cardo unit. I still think there is lots of room for improvement in the audio quality at high way speeds.
I have the 30K and agree that the mic for picking up external sound in ambient mode doesn't work. However! quite accidentally I discovered that by having the rubber cap over the charging port open drastically improves ambient mode.......
I have sena 20S, Sena SRL2, and finally changed to cardo pack talk. Sena support not able to solve the issue "pop corn noise" when in intercom communication. Wind cancellation on Cardo it's a must when you ride for hours on intercom or DMC mode. Battery alert better in Cardo. The only + for Sena is using it as standalone with remote control. Finally the pack talk for me is the intercom to use.
there is a point on 30K not mentionned. when on private mesh they say 30 riders can be configured but ONLY the first 6 riders are connecting to private mesh!
damn you could keep a small family warm in the winter with those eyebrows!
Nice review -- please do a review with the Sena and Cardo and a GPS unit like the Zumo 595 LM or the new Zumo XT.
Regarding and Ambient in Sena worked great for us. That's the 1 thing we missed when we went to Cardo. With Ambient I felt like a spy listening to others at the gas station. Also when talking to the clerk or asking for directions. I think you got a bad one with the Ambient.
You forgot to mention the Cardo's JBL speakers are miles better than the Sena's tin cans
Thank you for your video.
Good review, no “it’s all good” but strait to the point :-)
I would like to suggest in you next gadget review, you also have a look at some forums to see how good/bad a company reacts on bugs in the software as this makes or breaks a device.
Kind regards
André
Got a Sena 30k since 2 years now.
We (group of 4 riders) bought this because ( I think) noone had the Packtalk on any list whatsoever.
It was "Sena or bust" - so we bought the Sena.
At first I was blown away from music quality on higher speeds and so on, but later technical difficulties came up.
1st of all IF its just you and your buddy audio quality is great BUT once a 3rd joins in you can hear the voice qualy dropping MIIIIIIILES. And I mean miles.
2nd thing was we all agreed that we´re only connecting to each other when we really want to talk or command or anything but whenever we try to connect its NOT working as expected.
Sometimes you connect - sometimes you dont. Guess what? IF its kinda urgent its not working for some reason.
I can´t say I am dissapointed - I wanted to listen to music and talk to fellow riders from time to time; well its exactly this (lol)
I was thinking of stepping over to Cardo with the next helmet but on the other hand it would be another 270€ so I dont know
You forgot bullet proof. I have the Packtalk, my helmet fell to the road and landed on the Packtalk, The palktalk protected the helmet and kept on working to this day. It received a couple of dings near the volume control which I got some matching silver model paint and was able to repair good as new.
Bluetooth can be paired and bridged into the mesh network. So if you have a passenger they don’t need to have a Packtalk as well any universal Bluetooth will do. Done it. Theoretically 15 riders could have a pillion with Bluetooth and you’d have 30 in the group.
Waterproof confirmed. Friend and I rode 225k in the rain. Next time we met his Sena 20s was stuffed. Also try as we might his Sena 20s would not pair to the Palktalk in Bluetooth. Yet a cheap Chinese Bluetooth pairs easily for my passengers.
Spot on with your review, bought a pair of packtalk bolds so I can speak to my son when we’re riding together, Effortless connection every time , and a good app for the phone
Range is disappointing, much less than the interphones we used to run, but interphone don’t have as DMC model
He venido usando Sena: smh 10 y ahora el 30K, los he preferido por el servicio posventa porque me parece Sena ha tenido mejor atención. Hay un problema que no sé si se presente en los cardo: los cables de micrófono y altavoces que van unidos a la unidad de anclaje tienden a reventarse con el tiempo por el uso al quitar y poner el casco (tengo un Shark).
I bought the dualpack Sena 30k with a friend for a couple of reasons.
1) Mesh seemed like a smart choice after having dealt with off-brand communication devices and pairing several bluetooth units together and swapping between them.
2) The 30k was supposed to be a Bluetooth-HUB for other devices that did not have Mesh, so everything but the 30k at that point, meaning you could have group chats with other devices than the 30k.
3) It was advertised as a smart device, with an app and voice controll etc. You mention them all in your video.
In reality this is what it's like.
1) Mesh is complete crap, the quality is beyond abysmal no matter how far or close you are, with the antenna up or down. so we end up using Bluetooth all the time, but a little plus here is that the pairing of 2x30k is super easy and fast even with Bluetooth.
2) This idea that the 30k could be like a "HUB" for other devices is only ever true if all the connected units are also Sena. This does show up in the fine print, but during advertisement they never mentioned this limitation. You can at most have 1 other device, or "generic bluetooth device", connected to the 30k at one time. Your phone or other Sena product does not count into this so theoretically, and we tested this, you can have a phone, another sena device and one more none-sena device connected and have a group chat. For me this meant that out of the 4 of us with only 2 sena units we could be 3 people talking because only one of the 30k unit could be this HUB. So you can't pair brandX -> 30k, brandX -> another 30k and then have the 30k's paired and do 4-way communication. I tested this at home with all the devices we used. I kind of wished this was the case when I bought the units but it didn't work like that.
3) The voice controls work randomly, "Hello Sena" triggers sometimes and sometimes not. In general this feature list of FM radio and music on while talking didn't turn out to be such a important part of the entire experience.
Now about the mesh technology and the claimed range of this, i can't help but think that when Sena writes 2km and Cardo writes 1km they don't mean two riders out riding that far a part, it has to mean the total size of the mesh network. So you could be let's say 15 people spread out over and area that size and the mesh network would theoretically still work. Because let's face it if you go LoS your connection will degrade or break so you would have to be in the salt flats somewhere for this number to be taken seriously. The voice quality is complete garbage when using Mesh for us so we always use BT instead. A friend with Cardo also says that the packtalk mesh thing is not as good as the BT.
When my unit dies I will surely look for another alternative.
Have the Cardo packtalk, not the bold version. What is great is that that Cardo still releas firmware updates for my units, not only the latest bold version. Not sure what actually changed with the bold version. May be it only has to do with the introduction of the "natural voice reckn" feature.
Battery lifetime impress me, and the built quality. The feelings of the button and thumb wheel access is great.
Only problem is it takes a while to get used to all the settings and BT pairing options. Pairing second channel you can dial the thumb wheel back and forth to tell the packtalk unit that it is your gps unit you pairing. With the latest fw update seem BT pairing has improved. This time I got my TomTom 450 and phone working much better together with the packtalk unit.
Very good review. I'm still using a Sena S20 (had it for 3.5 years) and I'm disappointed with the lack of water proofing (cuts out when it gets to wet), battery time warning and the wind noise when talking on the phone or to another rider.
I agree with just about every thing you have said about Sena and it's shortcomings. However, being hard of hearing, I use custom made earbuds/speakers plugged into the clamp that block 30db of sound from the outside. So in order to be able to hear someone else, I use the ambient mode. It isn't great, but it's ok, the weird part is that the microphone is under the charging port and in order to hear anything so it doesn't sound like someone is underwater, you have to open the charging port, and then let rain in and it gets killed. Mine has made some very weird noises in the rain, but never quite died, yet. I wish I could switch to Cardo if they implemented something like Ambient function in their own product, I would jump ship like a drowning rat on a worm riddle ship.
My Schuberth has the built in Sena, but the location makes reaching buttons near impossible and pairing for group chat requires pushing either of the 2 buttons in a very specific manner, using the instructions you got on a credid card size page when you bought the helmet. The App offers no assistance whatsoever in this regard as it does not have the instructions for that particular sena on its system. Before I got the Schuberth I had an Autocom, which was much more user friendly for a portion of the price.
goldiefish72 I have to connect my c4 pro to a pack talk my wife uses and it sucks! I like the speakers when listening to music and she can hear me when we talk, but getting connected is terrible. And navigating the sc1 on the helmet is clunky even with voice prompts. And yes, feeling for buttons is near impossible.